need general advice on DE shaving

[hack]

Hi,

I posted a few days ago about advice on a more aggressive DE, but I'm thinking that I need more comprehensive advice (or perhaps simply more practice, please read and decide). I've been using a Merkur 23C for the last couple of weeks, with either Derbys or red Israelis. Mostly TOBS Rose cream or MWF. I've watched the excellent Youtube instructional videos more than once. Very careful prep, taking my time shaving. Only one nick thus far.

The problem is that even after three passes, including ATG and XTG, I'm still not as clean as with my cartridge razor, at least in the trouble spots. After the third pass and still stubbly in spots, I have been grabbing the cartridge razor in frustration and attacking the bad spots, and ten seconds later I'm clean.

So is this "still not clean" thing art of the learning curve, or am I doing something wrong? I need to be able to do this right since my favorite cartridges have been discontinued and I don't want to buy into another cartridge system since I'm by nature a conservative sort who hates change. I want my next system to last me to the grave (say 30-40 years.) Any help would be appreciated.

[wscott52]

I don't know, but after a week I'm getting some of the best shaves of my life with a 23C and Merkur blades. I did learn to shave originally with a DE it's just been over 30 years since I used one. My very inexperienced guess would be technique.

[JEdwards]

The problem is that even after three passes, including ATG and XTG, I'm still not as clean as with my cartridge razor, at least in the trouble spots. After the third pass and still stubbly in spots, I have been grabbing the cartridge razor in frustration and attacking the bad spots, and ten seconds later I'm clean.


I suspect that you have not yet learned the best technique yet for these particular parts of your face. Think about it. When you step back and use your old cartridge you are getting rid of the stubble, right? When using the blades in the cartridge, you are getting a combination of blade angle, stroke vs. grain, and pressure that cuts those whiskers well. This is very important information. It tells you that you can get a good shave in these areas. It is not an intractable problem with your beard or face. It is possible to comfortably shave those areas with lather and blades. The trick is to discover how to do it well with a single blade instead of a cartridge.

What you need to do is analyze what is working with the cartridge and finding a corresponding approach with a DE blade. The next time you run into an area like this, either remember what you did with the cartridge, or use the cartridge again and concentrate on shaving that spot and really learn what you are doing. Rub with your fingers so that you really understand the grain in that spot. Carefully note the length and direction(s) of your strokes.

Then, start experimenting when you shave these areas with your DE. Use short strokes, blade buffing, skin tension to flatten the area, vary your blade angle. After a bit of exploration you will discover for yourself what works here. Just slow down, pay close attention and keep at it.

[Duggo]

Having gone thru the same thing nearly 20 months ago, I think it's your angle/technique.

With a Cartridge Razor (CR) I don't think it's too terribly important if you shave with the grain, on the first pass, across the grain. or in the particular direction that your mood strikes you at the time. :rolleyes:

But with a Double Edge (DE) aka safety razor, it's a whole different ball game. You have to know the direction(s)/growth patterns that your beard grows in. Once you have that information, the abbreviations: WTG, XTG and ATG will really have significance. Otherwise, you could be shaving in directions, that are not consistent with your actual growth patterns.

With a DE, you control all the variables, such as pressure and angle. Generally speaking, you shave WTG on the first pass, ATG on the second pass, and Against the Grain on the third pass; and then you do your touch up passes

With the CR, the angle is set for you, and they have anywhere from 2 to 5 blades to do the work, so the shave takes less time. That's also why (in my estimation,) you'll get a better shave from your CR in the early days; as you noted in your initial post.

If you stick with the DE the better, closer shaves will come. It's only a matter of practice, time and patience.

I hope you find these (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?p=43685&postcount=11) posts (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?p=296945&postcount=1) as helpful as I did. They really put me on the fast track, when I was learning.

Best of luck. Hang in there, and keep us posted.

[vcardona]

+1

I started doing 3 pass shaves about a month after I switched to a DE. At first, I would still need to do some touch up even after my third pass. OK I still need some touching up every now and then :smile: Anyway, it has been about four months now, and my technique has improved tremendously. I need a lot less touching up, and I can easily handle most of the tough spots.

I don't know how long you've been shaving with a DE, but just give it some time, and work on your technique. In fact, I'd stop using the cartridge razor altogether. You'll never get the practice you need by doing that.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[BroJohn]

After the third pass and still stubbly in spots, I have been grabbing the cartridge razor in frustration and attacking the bad spots, and ten seconds later I'm clean.

So is this "still not clean" thing art of the learning curve, or am I doing something wrong?

hack --

Yes, the 'still not clean' is part of the learning curve, not 'something wrong'. If you do 'something wrong' either you bleed or have terrible redness and irritation, and that doesn't seem to be the issue here.

I suggest that you spot lather, and use the DE for T&C (Touch and Cut) as you're currently doing with your cartridge setup. Over time you'll find that you need to do less and less of this, and that the razor you use for the shave will work fine for the little leftover spots.

Hang in there. . .

-- John Gehman

[SMOKE]

hack --

Yes, the 'still not clean' is part of the learning curve, not 'something wrong'. If you do 'something wrong' either you bleed or have terrible redness and irritation, and that doesn't seem to be the issue here.

I suggest that you spot lather, and use the DE for T&C (Touch and Cut) as you're currently doing with your cartridge setup. Over time you'll find that you need to do less and less of this, and that the razor you use for the shave will work fine for the little leftover spots.

Hang in there. . .

-- John Gehman

+1 The only way to learn is to get those spots clean with the DE. Just time and practice my friend.

[hack]

Excellent advice and reassurance. Thanks to all.