question for the honemeisters

[memorael]

when honing via stones do you touch the spine of the blade to the stone or keep it slightly off?

[AustinC9]

I touch the spine to the hone very gently using no pressure. I find this is the only way to ensure a proper and consistant angle.

-Austin

[heavydutysg135]

Definately keep the spine contacting the hone throughout the stroke. Some people use electrical tape on certain razors to save spine wear, but then you can run into issues with double bevels. The spine is your guide to keeping the angle consistent.

[Limey]

The spine and the edge are laying flat on the stone. Using just the weight of the razor and not "pushing" down with any force.

[memorael]

Cool, Thanks for the info. Just got my first razor today and experienced my first shave, I must say even though it was a bit rough there was a total feeling of satisfaction never before accomplished with any other shave method.

[asbjorn]

If you asked because you don't want honing marks on you spine, then you should use electrical tape on the spine. But since the tape is of slight thickness, then you probably need to re-set the bevel.
If it was honed before, you should check wether it was honed with or without tape.

And check out this guide: http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33719

[memorael]

I don't mind the spine being scratched, anyway about how many strokes on a chinese 12k does it take to get it at its sharpest edge? I know this varies from blade to blade just trying to get an estimate and not over hone. Another thing im curious about is, if I get parts of the blade that pass the HHT and others don't could it be that the blade is warped or am I just honing it wrong? I tried checking if the blade is warped but couldn't find anything wrong with it. Thanks in advance to all.

[asbjorn]

Doubt that.
But to check for warping, lay the knife flat on the hone (The hone must be lapped flat ofcourse), then you will see if the knife is flat.
Some posted pictures of this.. somewhere..
Yes, look at post number 6 here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=39911

[heavydutysg135]

I don't mind the spine being scratched, anyway about how many strokes on a chinese 12k does it take to get it at its sharpest edge? I know this varies from blade to blade just trying to get an estimate and not over hone. Another thing im curious about is, if I get parts of the blade that pass the HHT and others don't could it be that the blade is warped or am I just honing it wrong? I tried checking if the blade is warped but couldn't find anything wrong with it. Thanks in advance to all.


If you are trying to get the razor sharp initally then the Chinese 12K is not the right stone for the job because it is very very slow. It is a great stone for getting an edge that is already really sharp even better, which will usually take 50-100 passes. Without any other information, I would say that if you are passing the HHT in certain areas and not in others then the razor is not ready for the Chinese 12K because it is not uniformly sharp yet.

[memorael]

Two more questions. How do I know if the blade is ready for the chinese 12k? The shape of my blade is basically out of the box (shave ready according to the french maker thiers issard) and I shaved with it once just to have my first shave. Also can you lap a stone while its dry? I find that if its wet it tends to form a suction which I think makes it harder to actually get it flat.

[heavydutysg135]

Two more questions. How do I know if the blade is ready for the chinese 12k? The shape of my blade is basically out of the box (shave ready according to the french maker thiers issard) and I shaved with it once just to have my first shave. Also can you lap a stone while its dry? I find that if its wet it tends to form a suction which I think makes it harder to actually get it flat.

If you do not how to perform sharpness tests (TPT, HHT) and correlate the results to the shave then you will have to experiment. Give the razor 50 passes on the wet stone and see if you get any improvement. Do another 50 passes before your next shave and test again. Do this several times and if you are not getting any improvement then you will either need to go to a courser stone or work on your technique. If the razor is improving then continue to do more passes and test-shave until the razor is sharp enough for your tastes. I am not sure what other stones you have so I can't really give you advice on how to proceed further. As far as the warped razor issue goes, I would not assume that this is the issue at this point. It is fairly rare that it is a significant problem on a new razor although it does happen. If you can see daylight in certain areas between the edge and the hone when you lay it down then your razor might be warped, if it lays flat as it should then it is not an issue.

[memorael]

cool thanks, so I assume what I should do is try the Chinese 12k with 50 passes and see if there is any improvement if not then its my technique. Also just so you know I also have these other stones just so you know. The kitayama 8k naniwa 10k natural aoto stone (rated at 2k~3k) king 6k and the dmt course and extra course. Also I forgot a major point. Since Tony doesn't have any beginner strops Im currently on news paper... which is probably the biggest problem... sorry I forgot to mention this. :bored:

[heavydutysg135]

cool thanks, so I assume what I should do is try the Chinese 12k with 50 passes and see if there is any improvement if not then its my technique.

No I did not say that, in my last post I said to test several times and if there is not improvement then it is either because you or using the wrong stone for the job (the Chinese is not fast enough for the stage that you are at) or your technique needs some work.

Also just so you know I also have these other stones just so you know. The kitayama 8k naniwa 10k natural aoto stone (rated at 2k~3k) king 6k and the dmt course and extra course. Also I forgot a major point. Since Tony doesn't have any beginner strops Im currently on news paper... which is probably the biggest problem... sorry I forgot to mention this. :bored:

You definately need to a leather strop

[ouch]

Also just so you know I also have these other stones just so you know. The kitayama 8k naniwa 10k natural aoto stone (rated at 2k~3k) king 6k and the dmt course and extra course.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you know a thing or two about knives. :lol:

That's a very nice collection of stones.

[memorael]

yeah, my knives could probably do a better job at shaving than my razor, which I finally figured out was indeed warped. O well ill just have to wait for the store to restock cause unfortunately that was the last one they had of that type... not my day. Anyway this gives me time to get the strop and at least now I know maybe, hopefully, when I get the new one I can get it to pass the hht. :thumbup1:

[ouch]

yeah, my knives could probably do a better job at shaving than my razor, which I finally figured out was indeed warped. O well ill just have to wait for the store to restock cause unfortunately that was the last one they had of that type... not my day. Anyway this gives me time to get the strop and at least now I know maybe, hopefully, when I get the new one I can get it to pass the hht. :thumbup1:

You'll have fun with the straights- enjoy yourself.

http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=10599

My stones (these are about half of them) are heavily geared towards knives, too.

[memorael]

is that a naniwa chocera stone? those are suppose to be the real shizzney. could you also state what the other stones are? I see the Kitayama and also the naniwa 10k I think. BTW I forgot to mention the bester 700 <- crazy fast cutter and harder than any other stone I have except the DMT's

[ouch]

is that a naniwa chocera stone? those are suppose to be the real shizzney.

They're my favorites, and I have a few of them (1,3,5K). The others are mostly various Kings, DMTs, and Shaptons.

In the aformentioned pic, from left to right-
Top row- GlassStone 220, DMT D8C, GlassStone 500, King hyper medium 1K.
Bottom row- Shapton M15 2K, Naniwa cho-cera 3K, King 6K, Kitayama 8K, Shapton M15 12K.
A few others floating around off camera.

[mparker762]

Two more questions. How do I know if the blade is ready for the chinese 12k? The shape of my blade is basically out of the box (shave ready according to the french maker thiers issard) and I shaved with it once just to have my first shave. Also can you lap a stone while its dry? I find that if its wet it tends to form a suction which I think makes it harder to actually get it flat.

You should lap them wet. The suction does make it a bit annoying though.

If you're using a Thiers Issard then you definitely need to check the blade for grinding problems. While Thiers Issard is one of my favorite brands, they're a bit like production 1911's in that they tend to need a bit of work before they really sing. What you need to do is take a magic marker and thoroughly blacken the bevel of the razor, then put it on the hone for a few laps, then check to see if the magic marker is coming off evenly along the entire bevel. If it is, then the bevel is ok and you just need to keep honing until it's sharp. If it's not then you can use the pattern of hone wear marks to diagnose the problems and prescribe a solution.

[memorael]

Ok, well I exchanged my razor for a new one, (it was warped so maybe theres some of the problem) and I am currently waiting for my tony miller strop (finally) so my question is. Do I try stropping it first? or do I take it directly to the chinese 12k or another stone? I did the HHT and it didn't pass it at all. Also Ouch <- (guy with chocera stones) if you dont mind me asking were did you, purchase those lovely naniwa choceras? been looking for them like crazy.