Does this setup make sense?

[Nocturne]

This is my first foray into straight razor use... besides the fact I bought half a dozen of them on ebay or in antique shops. I've done quite a bit of reading, and the sharpening stuff I plan to acquire boils down to this:

A D11E 1200 grit continuous DMT for heavy restoration, lapping and knives.
A Norton 4k/8k for, well, you know the drill.
A fine american barber hone for the finishing (already got this thanks to Suzuki!)
As well as 0.5 micron green chromium oxide pasted strop for maintenance.
And a hanging leather strop.

Should I be fine? Would the D11E be ok for all these uses or do I need something coarser for lapping?

Thanks,

Noc.

[jlander]

I'm sure others will chime in , but looks like you have all the bases covered.

Once the HAD sets in though,you may find that some blades like different finishers. I have some that come off a Black Lithide smooth as warm butter. Others prefer the Thuringer, Coticle, or Swaty. I haven't quite figured out why I can get a better edge on one blade with a certain finish hone and another blade just will not do as well on it.

[izlat]

That's a very respectable setup - you have quite the range there.

Of course, if you get RAD, there are many more hones to consider at least trying - but you're definitely set to go

Good luck
Ivo

[Nocturne]

In fact, my main :confused: concerns the D11E 1200, as I may see it as more versatile than it really is. Would it take forever to lap with such a stone or to sharpen a knife with? Or is it basically the same thing as a 1000 waterstone but with the diamond hone advantages (stays flat, no water required, lasts longer etc.) ?

Also, if I had to buy a second abrasive compound from, say, Handamerican, to complete the 0.5, should I go with the 1.5 or 1 micron diamond paste? I lean toward the 1 but am not sure. What are your takes on this?

Thanks,

Noc.

[Nocturne]

And, yeah, no need to say that this list is for a "starter kit" and is by no mean exhaustive. But one's need to start somewhere... :wink:

[Droshi]

For myself I have a D8F and a D8EE, and I have no trouble jumping in between them with no D8E. The advantage for me is that the D8F can be used to lap softer stones and sharpen other knives, though for a spyderco UF or chinese 12k I think I'll need a D8C anyway...

If I had to make a "starter kit" that most people could use, it would be something like a D8F/D8E, D8EE, double sided paddle (chromium/1 micron diamond). Nothing to lap and pretty easy to learn if you ask me. But then again my opinion is somewhat biased :)

[heavydutysg135]

The DMT-E is a REALLY poor lapping stone. The reason is that the diamonds are too fine/small which causes the surface to stick really hard to the stone that you are trying to flatten because of the surface tension created. If you want a great lapping stone then you will need either the DMT-C or XXC. They are only about $35 at craftsmanstudio, so getting both the E and C will not break the bank.

[Nocturne]

^^thanks. craftsmanstudio looked like a good place until I read "we only ship to the US" ... bummer. :frown:

[Droshi]

I would think you could quite easily find someone on this forum to have it sent to, to then mail it to you. Though it would cost an extra shipping charge, I'd think the price of craftsmanstudio would make up for it. All you'd have to do is ask :)

I would offer, if only I lived in the US.

[Chrisl]

The DMT-E is a REALLY poor lapping stone. The reason is that the diamonds are too fine/small which causes the surface to stick really hard to the stone that you are trying to flatten because of the surface tension created. If you want a great lapping stone then you will need either the DMT-C or XXC. They are only about $35 at craftsmanstudio, so getting both the E and C will not break the bank.

With his proposed set up though, I would go for the D8E rather than the D8C even with the stiction challenge for the following reasons:

1) In this theoretical he's looking at lapping a Norton 4000/8000 only rather than also using the D8E for lapping natural stones (in which case I would definitely say the D8E is not aggressive enough). The D8E will make his 8000 side like smoooooooth glass and even though the 4000 side will take longer for the initial lapping, if he uses a ton of water, it will leave his 4000 side also very silky. Once properly lapped, I think the D8E is a better refresher plate than the D8C
2) He's also looking for a bevel setting tool which the D8E works well once broken in. The D8C is generally too coarse for this type of work.

Now to be clear, my opinions above related specifically to his theoretical stone progression.

IF.....he wants any other stones in the future (natural stones, like the Chinese 12K for example) disregard my recommendation, the D8C would be necessary. I've owned and used the Both the D8C and the D8E along with the Norton 4000/8000. I did sell all three though for a different honing configuration.

I AM thinking of purchasing a 1 1/2" by 8" solid Norton 4000 stone for honing warped blades from toolsforworkingwood.com though. A narrow Norton 4000 is intriguing to me and $33.95, pretty inexpensive.

Chris L

[heavydutysg135]

1) Once properly lapped, I think the D8E is a better refresher plate than the D8C

I don't agree with this statement.

2) He's also looking for a bevel setting tool which the D8E works well once broken in. The D8C is generally too coarse for this type of work.

I definately agree with this statement.

People have different opinions and experiences. Maybe the DMT-E will work OK for you, but I really don't like it for lapping/refreshing.

[Chrisl]

1) Once properly lapped, I think the D8E is a better refresher plate than the D8C

I don't agree with this statement.

2) He's also looking for a bevel setting tool which the D8E works well once broken in. The D8C is generally too coarse for this type of work.

I definately agree with this statement.

People have different opinions and experiences. Maybe the DMT-E will work OK for you, but I really don't like it for lapping/refreshing.

I don't want my advice to be misconstrued. Between the D8C and the D8E, I agree 100% the D8C is a superlative lapping plate and for lapping purposes beats the D8E. I found when I had both DMT plates that after lapping on the D8C, a few circles on the D8E improved the surfaces of the Norton.

Within the strict context of this original post/question, IF a person was only going to have one combo stone (the Norton), my opinion was that the D8E could lap both the 4000/8000 sides and could probably do it quicker than it took me to lap my Chinese 12K and maybe even the time it took me to lap my Belgian Blue; but.......the D8E would be much slower than the D8C.

That's all I was saying.

Chris L

[Nocturne]

Thanks for the input guys, really appreciated. A couple more questions if I may. Would it be possible to go all the way with DMTs? Do they have an equivalent for the 4k stone?

Also what setup would you recommend from your experience and liking? My criteria are that I want something for knives/bevel setting as well as a finer combo for honing finishing razors. Thanks again.

Noc.

[ouch]

Although whatever degree of expertise I possess is more applicable to knives than razors, I find that the finer the grit I use, the softer I want the stone to be. I don't like diamonds for fine work, nor, for that matter, the very hard Shaptons. I leave those hard stones for the grunt work.

One of the best polishing stones around, but one that's hardly mentioned on the razor sites, is the Naniwa 10K super stone. It's so soft, it's rather like a strop.

Ask a hundred people, and you'll get a hundred opinions.

[Silb3r]

ouch,

Love the custom title! :lol:

[Chrisl]

Although whatever degree of expertise I possess is more applicable to knives than razors, I find that the finer the grit I use, the softer I want the stone to be. I don't like diamonds for fine work, nor, for that matter, the very hard Shaptons.

I've found my Shapton Ceramic on Glass 16,000 grit stone to be just dreamy for my razor edges. It's probably my favorite stone to date surpassing my yellow coticules, my Chinese 12K and a blue/green Escher (granted, all those naturals are a lower grit than the 16K, but all including the Shapton 16K are polishing stones nonetheless). It's actually resulted in my rarely using my natural polishing stones much at all anymore, but I'm not complaining. Very easy to use. Great stone.

Chris L

[heavydutysg135]

Thanks for the input guys, really appreciated. A couple more questions if I may. Would it be possible to go all the way with DMTs? Do they have an equivalent for the 4k stone?

Yes, you could go straight from the DMT-E (1200 grit), to the DMT-EE (8000) grit since diamond is so fast. Then you could finish with a nice finishing stone or paste like a Chinese 12K, Yellow Coticule, Chromium Oxide etc.

Also what setup would you recommend from your experience and liking? My criteria are that I want something for knives/bevel setting as well as a finer combo for honing finishing razors. Thanks again.

In general, knives use significantly courser stones than razors. For example a 1K stone is pretty much as low of a grit as you would ever go on a razor, but that is considered a really fine stone for a knife. If you wanted to stay with the DMT series than you could add some of the courser ones to hone your knives and also lap your finishing stone(s). The other option that I know of that will work well for both razors and knives are the Spyderco bench stones (medium, fine, extra fine). The medium and fine work really well for knives, and the extra fine will give you an edge that will shave really well if done right.

Noc.

[Bowcephalus]

As in the simplicity of the straight, I appreciate the simplicity of a Norton 4/8k stone, and one of Tony's unpasted strops hung from a towel rack....Spend most of your effort learning to use these few implements with the aid of a good magnifier to monitor your honing technique and you will achieve great results......