Bought C&E $35 brush....

[dax702]

So I went down to the mall and bought this brush and was really excited about it to replace my $5 Burma shave brush I've been using from walmart. On the first use, I found that the C&E created pretty much no lather at all so I figure I must be doing something wrong. So I tried not flicking the water out of the brush and then tried to lather the cream again. A bit better but still not nearly as much as the cheap ass burma brush.. What is wrong? I also noticed that when I do put the brush to my face that it just kind of changes shape and doesn't spread the lather onto my face... I'm guessing it's not the brush because it came so highly recommended when I asked..?

[greenerock]

What cream/soap are you using? I use this brush all the time.

[Jonnybc]

When I get a new brush I give the brush a good shampooing followed by a thorough rinse. I then use a cheap cream (I use palmolive) to really clean the brush by massaging it into the hair, rinse again and use. I'd use a bowl if you're not...

[dax702]

using the Palmolive cream that was highly recommended in the forum.. I also picked up this caswell massey sandlewood stuff but that doesn't lather up AT ALL compared to the Palmolive which lathered up great with the cheapo burma brush.

[dax702]

I'm using a big coffee mug, smooth inside surface

[Jonnybc]

Just one thing. The Palmolive you bought, it is the "use with a brush" formula? They do one that's brushless in thr US I believe.

Follow Joel's instructions (http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9&highlight=lathering) and you should get a good lather.

[dax702]

yeah the one with the red stripes,, I'll look at your link now..

[dax702]

I read the guide you linked me to.. I do basically the same thing with leaving the brush in hot water while i prep my face. What I found was the opposite though - I had to leave the brush soaking wet in order to get any kind of lather. If I shook the water out of the brush, and tried to swirl up a lather, I got nothing at all. Then when I added about a teaspoon or so of water, I got a tiny bit of lather after like a bazillion swirls and THAT lather was nowhere near as good as the cheap burma shave brush. So now I'm trying to figure out the Badger is considered better than the Boar bristle. So far "out of the box" it seems the opposite. What can I be doing wrong? The only thing different is that i'm not using BOILING water but we keep the temperature on the water heater pretty hot, so the hot side of the faucet is indeed HOT.

[mrob]

Where do you live? What's the water quality like?

How about some bottled water?

[Jonnybc]

Where do you live? What's the water quality like?

How about some bottled water?


The water quality should be ok the results were good with the boar brush. I'm baffled!

[mrob]

Hmm. . .I do get good lather from my boar brush, but can also get good lather from my badgers. Not bragging, just sharing.:redface:

[boboakalfb]

When I get a new brush I give the brush a good shampooing followed by a thorough rinse. I then use a cheap cream (I use palmolive) to really clean the brush by massaging it into the hair, rinse again and use. I'd use a bowl if you're not...
Hey Dax,

As John stated he shampoos the new brush. You will hear from people that new brushes might not hold as much water at first. After a couple of uses it gets better. I think shampooing the brush just accelerates this. Maybe there is something on the bristles which keeps it from retaining water at first?

[Jonnybc]

The water is pretty hard here so if I'm feeling energetic I boil filtered water in a kettle and shave with that, the lather is considerably better but I usually can't be bothered.

Do you have a water filter DAX?

[dax702]

I live in Las Vegas, Nevada
What should I shampoo the brush with? hair shampoo? dish shampoo? The problem isn't that it doesn't hold a lot of water, as it does hold a lot of water. It just seems like I need to keep all that water in the brush to get even a hint of a lather. If i shake out the brush, then I can get nothing no matter how many swirls or how much cream is in the mug...

[boboakalfb]

You can shampoo the brush using shampoo for your hair...quoting Ron "It is Badger HAIR isn't it?"

I mentioned giving the brush a flick to let out a bit of water...not shaking it. If you start with less water in your brush you can always add it in a couple drops at a time to get the perfect consistency. It is much easier to add in water then add in more cream if you have too much water.

[Jonnybc]

Use your regular hair shampoo.

[g8orshavr]

If the brush is holding water than it must be the cream. I know you said the boar brush created a good lather with the palmolive cream, but with water and a good cream you should be able to create a lather even with a synthetic bristled kitchen basting brush. I figured before I posted this I should actually try it. So I took some Art of Shaving Lemon cream (a cream that lathers very well for me) and grabbed a basting brush from the kitchen and whipped up some nice lather in my bowl (I can post pictures if you'd like).

The point is that as long as you have water and cream and something to agitate it with, you should be able to create a lather suitable for shaving. I really don't think that the problem is the brush or needing to clean it. My guess is that either the cream and your water are not reacting well together or your technique may need some work. Keep experimenting with different amounts of cream and water. Once you figure out the proper ratio (varies depending on the cream and your local water) you should be able to create lather with any brush. Obviously, some brushes will do a much better job than others, but you should be able to get an acceptable shave from almost any brush.

Don't give up, it's like riding a bike, once it clicks for you you'll wonder how it was ever so difficult.

[dax702]

Thanks - any thoughts on this caswell massey stuff, will it lather once I "get it" or is it no good? Should I be swirling the brush fast or slow? To me, it seems like if you're able to count 20 swirls and u have that much lather it had to be pretty slow. I was going around as fast as I could trying to work it up haha

[Austin]

Thanks - any thoughts on this caswell massey stuff, will it lather once I "get it" or is it no good? Should I be swirling the brush fast or slow? To me, it seems like if you're able to count 20 swirls and u have that much lather it had to be pretty slow. I was going around as fast as I could trying to work it up haha

If it's the shave cream, no it will not lather very well. You are better off buying some of the C&E shave creams. They lather really well and smell wonderful.

[g8orshavr]

I've always found Proraso to lather well and it's under $10 at target. As Austin said, C&E lather's well and I think they are having a sale at the moment.

[HlSheppard]

I've got one of these brushes on the way. I can't wait to play with a new toy.

[dax702]

I hope you have better results than I did the first time. I was expecting gobs and gobs of lather but it didn't compare to the $5 burma shave brush.. I'll give it another try when my irritation goes away :(

[Englandmj7]

I use the $35 C&E and get excellent lather, I have used at least 10-15 different creams with it, and they all work great.

[dax702]

I'll try it again without shaving in a little bit...

[Austin]

I hope you have better results than I did the first time. I was expecting gobs and gobs of lather but it didn't compare to the $5 burma shave brush.. I'll give it another try when my irritation goes away :(

You will get gobs of lather after you refine your technique. Patience is a virtue.

[dax702]

Well I had more success just now and got quite a bit of lather out of the Palmolive cream. I figured out the problem - Using a coffee mug simply doesn't work (not enough swirling circumfierence?) so I went to the kitchen and got a more flat ceramic type dish. First I tried this caswell massey stuff I picked up and could not get any kind of lather out of it at all so I started to get pissed again (going to send that crap back). Then I tried the Palmolive in that dish and I had a mountain of lather so that was a first :lol: It was a little runny so I kept swirling and it fluffed up.

Then I figured I would try and shave with that mountain of lather that was overflowing the dish. That's when the problems set in. Because I shaved yesterday, the beard was hard and the razor just skipped along like a small school child and cut pretty much nothing although the beard IS there :confused:

Is it possible that some people simply cannot shave every day no matter what? I just put the balm on and I'm sandpaper man yet again. In order to get any type of decent shave whether it be with the DE, the mach3, or an electric, I have to wait a good 3 days for the beard to come in long enough and soft enough for any kind of blade (thus far) to cut it.

I've been at wet shaving now for exactly two months :mad: Sure wish I had a bazillion dollars so I could get all this god-for-saken face hair off me for good because shaving simply doesn't cut it. If the new Derby or Israeli blades don't help, then I think I'll be stuck with sandpaper face forever. :frown:

[Kyle]

dax,
No product is going to magically transform your shaves. If you are looking for the quick fix, you will not be happy here. Because of the intricacies of the techniques necessary to become an accomplished wet shaver, it must be viewed as more of a marathon and less of a sprint. Before spending any more money on this method of shaving, you should really ask yourself if wet shaving can satisfy your expectations.

[Jonnybc]

dax,
No product is going to magically transform your shaves. If you are looking for the quick fix, you will not be happy here. Because of the intricacies of the techniques necessary to become an accomplished wet shaver, it must be viewed as more of a marathon and less of a sprint. Before spending any more money on this method of shaving, you should really ask yourself if wet shaving can satisfy your expectations.

Agreed. Technique is everything with DE shaving, one day it'll click and you'll never look back. Ok, you have good shaves, Excellent shaves and the occasional bad shave but the DE route is the most rewarding shaving experience short of going at your face with a cut throat.




Is it possible that some people simply cannot shave every day no matter what? I just put the balm on and I'm sandpaper man yet again. In order to get any type of decent shave whether it be with the DE, the mach3, or an electric, I have to wait a good 3 days for the beard to come in long enough and soft enough for any kind of blade (thus far) to cut it..

As your technique improves you will be able to shave every day and it'll be a pleasure.

[dax702]

I'm not looking for a quick fix, and I don't really consider 2 months, quick anyhow.. So I have the good razor, the good brush, good cream. And I follow the directions for wetshaving too. So the only missing part of the equation as I see it is the blade, something that actually cuts short stubble. So until then, I won't complain.. But overall I have to stick with wetshaving if only for the no irritation part of it. It's not half as close as the electric but the electric caused a lottt of irritation and redness. So for now I have to settle with a scratchy face and no irritation. Go with the grunge look lol

[Jonnybc]

I'm not looking for a quick fix, and I don't really consider 2 months, quick anyhow.. So I have the good razor, the good brush, good cream. And I follow the directions for wetshaving too. So the only missing part of the equation as I see it is the blade, something that actually cuts short stubble. So until then, I won't complain.. But overall I have to stick with wetshaving if only for the no irritation part of it. It's not half as close as the electric but the electric caused a lottt of irritation and redness. So for now I have to settle with a scratchy face and no irritation. Go with the grunge look lol

Have you had a blade sampler from letterk?

[Scotto]

Dax (I must have missed your name),

As with anything worthwhile, it will take time, practice and patience to get it right. Something as seemingly simple as whipping up lather and shaving has subteties that you can't appreciate without the benefit of time. So, here are my suggestions to you:


Ditch the CM stuff - it is junk
Work on your prep. Make sure your whiskers are as soft as possible by shaving after a shower and/or using a warm towel
Play with the cream/water ratio. Often too little cream will lead to a poor shave. Remember that even an el cheapo cream like Palmolive will whip up huge amounts of lather with a tiny amount of cream. Will it shave well like that? No. Try a bit more and see how that goes
Remember that you will not get a smooth shave with one pass. You will need multiple passes at multiple angles to get that ultimate smooth shave. There is lots of info on this board about techniques. Take a look and ask questions
I would highly recommend you try some other creams beside Palmolive. As previously mentioned, Proraso is great stuff and is readily available at places like Target

[mrob]

Dax,

I'd heartily second all of the advice above, especially:

•get rid of the creams you're currently using and get something that is widely acknowledged as a good latherer--Proraso would be my choice.

•get the blade sampler from Letterk--or at least some Derbys to start with--if its a problem getting them where you are I'd be happy to send you a pack or 2 to get started with--PM for an address

•as Kyle suggested--relax.:smile: Now, I know the last thing someone who is frustrated wants to hear is that they need to relax, but I suspect that you are so focused on getting an absolutely perfect shave that you are unable to enjoy the "experience" of wet shaving. Given the proper equipment--which you have in large part--and proper technique, good shaves will come. It is possible, though, that you have unrealistic expectations for the whole enterprise. A good wet shave routine *should* result in smoother and healthier skin, but not a glass like visage (that was for you, Ron!) every time out of the chute.

Hang in there, and congratulations on making a great lather with the Palmolive! Lots of guys have not been able to do that this early in the game.:smile:

[DoubleE]

I'm not looking for a quick fix, and I don't really consider 2 months, quick anyhow.. So I have the good razor, the good brush, good cream. And I follow the directions for wetshaving too. So the only missing part of the equation as I see it is the blade, something that actually cuts short stubble. So until then, I won't complain.. But overall I have to stick with wetshaving if only for the no irritation part of it. It's not half as close as the electric but the electric caused a lottt of irritation and redness. So for now I have to settle with a scratchy face and no irritation. Go with the grunge look lol

Dax:

What blade are you using? You may have hit on the problem as I can get great results from some blades and terrible results from others. If you've already been doing this for two months, try a Feather blade and see how it works for you. In my opinion, it's the best blade by far!

[dax702]

Who makes "feather" blades? I am getting the sampler pack from letterk; he's waiting for a shipment to come in at the moment..

[jbasl]

Dax,

I'm new to this as well (almost the same amount of time). I just purchased the same brush as you yesterday. After two attempts I got a really nice lather that really improved my shave. I also asked about having to take shaving breaks to get the best possible shave (see my post in the general forum). I can offer any really good advice except that you should try some Taylor's shave cream. For 13 bucks you can get a tub which from my estimates will last 3 months or so with daily shaves. It whips up really well using Joel's instructions.

Also C&E sells several brushes for 35 bucks. I'm wondering if maybe you bought a travel brush and that this might be slowing your progress (others can speak to this much better than I).

In any case I just switched from a boar brush and not only does this lather better after some practice, but the real benefit is what it does to your face. It feels great and it keeps more water on your face giving me (at least) a better shave. Keep at it man.

[SSLStudio]

Who makes "feather" blades? I am getting the sampler pack from letterk; he's waiting for a shipment to come in at the moment..


They are a product of Sushi Land thus " Japan "

Have you thought of getting an Injector razor aswell ? I cant advice how good or bad they are but might be interesting for you to get in on the Campus deal.

[dax702]

Hi, I did see the travel brushes, but no, I got the right one that they told me about. The problem I was having with the lathering was solved when I stopped using a coffee mug and switched so something with a bigger surface area.. One thing I noticed about the C&E was that after I was able to get a good lather, it didn't want to come off the brush and onto my face when I tried to brush it on unlike the burma shave brush..

[dax702]

"the Campus deal" ?? I'm told I bought a good razor so I'm going to stick with it

[jbasl]

The reason the cream leaves the boar and not the badger (i think) is because the softer bristles allow the cream to get in the brush. Maybe you are being a little too gentle with the badger brush because you were trained on the boar. I was doing that. Now I really push the brush a bit on my face, and while i'm not perfect I get an opaque lather on my face that gives me a great shave.

I also have an HD with merkur blades and I'm having a great experience (I saw your post on your HD). I think you just need to practice the technique a little more and you'll get really good shaves. Somewhere on this forum there is a four pass technique that was really helfpul. Also be careful with blade angle as I'm noticing that makes a big difference with me. Also as everyone says watch the amount of pressure you apply.

[Englandmj7]

I lather directly onto my face with the C&E, as opposed to a bowl, etc. and it is fantastic. I also second picking up some Proraso; you may have all your lathering problems disappear!

[dax702]

alright since I feel like I have a studio audience now I went to Target and bought the Proraso shaving cream but I need to give my face a break so I'm not going to shave until tomorrow....Is there any way to get that caswell massey stuff to lather, I don't particularly feel like driving to the mall to take it back..

[mrob]

Yeah. . .throw it in the garbage, squirt some Proraso in your bowl and lather away!:biggrin:

[rtaylor61]

alright since I feel like I have a studio audience now I went to Target and bought the Proraso shaving cream but I need to give my face a break so I'm not going to shave until tomorrow....Is there any way to get that caswell massey stuff to lather, I don't particularly feel like driving to the mall to take it back..

You can build a lather, but it takes a LOT more product. I have a tub I paid 1/2 price for, and I use it once in a great while. Just double up the dosage!

Randy

[dax702]

I have the tube - Like how much are we talking when you say double up?

[rtaylor61]

I have the tube - Like how much are we talking when you say double up?

With most creams, I use an almond size dollop, but with the C-M cream, I use about a walnut size.

Randy

[jduffy]

I have the C&E brush and it works brilliantly and I'm a total newbie. It takes a little while to perfect your technique. I read everything in the forums about whipping up beautiful lather and it pays off. My first attempt was less than perfect but now it being my 7th go round shaving, it's easy.

- Jim

[dax702]

well here's an update...
I went to target and bought the Proraso shave cream.
Ditched the coffee mug and went with a cereal bowl.
Got a good lather going with the C&E and proraso, however it was full of bubbles so I'm guessing I used too much water.

I'm still having the problem with getting the lather from the brush onto the face. i've found I have to do a scooping motion to get the lather onto the brush and then kind of plop it onto my face rather than brush it on. If I try to brush it in circles, it doesn't come off the brush hardly at all.

So in other words, I end up using the brush more like a shovel to get the lather on there and then apply it more like a butter knife :lol:

Anyone else have this trouble?

[guenron]

well here's an update...
I went to target and bought the Proraso shave cream.
Ditched the coffee mug and went with a cereal bowl.
Got a good lather going with the C&E and proraso, however it was full of bubbles so I'm guessing I used too much water.

I'm still having the problem with getting the lather from the brush onto the face. i've found I have to do a scooping motion to get the lather onto the brush and then kind of plop it onto my face rather than brush it on. If I try to brush it in circles, it doesn't come off the brush hardly at all.

So in other words, I end up using the brush more like a shovel to get the lather on there and then apply it more like a butter knife :lol:

Anyone else have this trouble?
With all due repsect for your level of frustration, I don't think I could get a brush and lather into that state if I tried. Good grief. I am sure you've read everything everyone has had to say, but humor me and follow this step-by-step approach.
1. In your old (BIG?) coffee mug, fill it with your hottest tap water. (Be sure it is less that 190 degrees fahrenheit).
2. Plop you $35 Best Badger C&E into the mug.
3. Load your new cereal bowl with the same temp water.
4. Get a wash cloth soak it in the excrutiatingly hot water and wring it out while mumbling Ooo, Ooo, this is hot!
5. Taking care not to burn your visage, wrap the wash cloth around your cheeks, jaw, and neck for about three minutes.
6. Now dump the hot water out of the bowl.
7. Squeeze an inch and a half squib or Proraso cream into the middle of the cereal bowl.
8. Remove the brush from the mug allowing it to drain until it stops dripping of its own volition.
9. Give it a "tiny" shake if you wish to reduce the amount of water.
10 Now whip the squib of cream in the bowl with the (really) wet brush for 50 to 150 strokes.
If this does not do it, you'll have to send your tuition payments to the Ol' Lathermeister Schoool of Gettin'' the Lather onto Your Face...
I hope this resolves some of your issues. We all would like to see you happy shaving your visage with skill, cunning, and products that you can enjoy.

[jbasl]

Try cleaining the brush and try soaking the brush in hot (I microwave mine) water for the duration of, say, a shower.

[dax702]

Thanks for the reply. I do Steps 1,2,3 already.
For step 4&5, instead of the hot towel, I take a hot shower instead while steps 1,2,3 are happening.
Step 7 is about the same..
Step 8, is exactly what I did last time.
Didn't do step 9

What does it mean if the resulting lather is full of bubbles instead of a smooth whip-cream like, lather? To me, I thought that meant too much water?

[boboakalfb]

Could mean that there is too much water OR you need to spend some more time whipping it. You will notice it going from a bubbly loose consistency to a more creamy consistency. How much time are you spending whipping it?

[dax702]

hmm not sure on the actual whipping time.. I'll time it next time up to the point where I stopped last time and then keep going and see what happens and let you know.

[jbasl]

During my lathering which starts only with non-excess water from the brush, I get bubbles for a few seconds then I start to get a cream. I then run hot water on my and and let a couple of drops go in my lather. I keep whipping and add a couple drops here and there until I have a nice pile of cream of thickish consistency.

Why not experiment and keep adding two or three drops and whipping in between until you see the whole progression from the start to the cream to the watery end. Then you'll know the stages and where you want to get it.

[DaveF]

I have experimented with lathering with that $35 CE badger brush myself, and it sounds to me that the problems you are having with "lather transferrance" as well as the bubbles you describe are either because you are using too much water, or you aren't whipping the lather long enough.

I, like you, went from a boar to the C&E badger brush about a month ago and I expected a miracle. I didn't get one. Not right away, anyway. The lather on the new brush, frankly, sucked compared to the lather I got with the Omega boar brush. So I ran to the forums, read up a bunch, and tried the shampoo/conditioner route, used hotter water, switched to a bigger bowl (oversized coffee mug actually), and finally I just started playing with the water-to-cream ratio. Here's what I found works:

I soak my brush in hot water only for a minute or so, while I am assembling the other tools of the trade. I do swirl and pump the brush up and down in the hot water vigorously so that the brush soaks up as much water as possible in that time. Then I take the brush out, dump the bowl, and give the brush two firm shakes over the sink. The remaining water in the brush, plus whatever water drops stuck to the inside of my bowl, is usually pretty close to the optimal amount I need to get a great lather.

I then use the almond-sized dollop of cream and swirl the brush rapidly until the lather becomes less foamy (which is where I think your bubbles are coming into play) and more creamy.

One other thing (and apologies for the length), but as far as troubleshooting lather goes, if your lather is more foam than cream you can try whipping for a longer period of time or if that doesn't work, try adding more product. If your lather seems very tacky and sticky, try adding a few drops of hot water to see if it loosens up. It took me two solid weeks of experimenting with the ratio to get a good lather but I'm glad I made the effort because the result was worth it.

Good luck!

[Jonnybc]

Hi Dave, welcome to B&B.

That's sound advise...

[boboakalfb]

Welcome and well done Dave...seems the Ex-Lurker title is very fitting. For your first post you were able to drop some knowledge.

[dax702]

I agree; that was great advice; glad to know I'm not the only one who struggled with the better brush.. I'll let you know how it turns out later on...

One other question.. after the first pass, when I go to apply more cream to my face, the brush and the cream are cold. After I apply the cream the first time, I just put the brush in the bowl while I shave. I'm guessing this is probably nto right since everything is always supposed to be hot..

Am I to assume I'm supposed to start everything over for the second pass?

[boboakalfb]

No...you don't have to start the whole process over for subsequent passes. This is where people get creative in order to maintain the warmth in the lather. Floating bowls in hot water...Hot Pots...the Moss Scuttle are some of the methods people use in order to keep the lather warm.

[dax702]

well I can't exactly soak the brush in hot water again because that will wash away all the cream.. what is moss scuttle? I read about a guy's method using a water boiler earlier in this post but he didn't say what to do about the second pass, etc..

[boboakalfb]

well I can't exactly soak the brush in hot water again because that will wash away all the cream.. what is moss scuttle? I read about a guy's method using a water boiler earlier in this post but he didn't say what to do about the second pass, etc..

No, you wouldn't keep the brush directly in the water...the hot water is a means to keep the lather bowl warm. Here is a link for the Moss Scuttle (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2592)

[dax702]

Oh I see, it's just a type of thing that keeps it insulated warm.. I'll have to figure something out..

[DoubleE]

You may want to give one of these (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?p=10290&postcount=1) a try. Just be careful not to let you brush get too hot.

[dax702]

you know I actually have one of those I think, looks similar to that but it's called a candle warmer, I wonder if it is the same thing, I'll have to check it out. =)

[guenron]

you know I actually have one of those I think, looks similar to that but it's called a candle warmer, I wonder if it is the same thing, I'll have to check it out. =)
I would suggest focusing on getting a respectible lather first. As an aside, unless you have an extraordinary water problem, there is another issue here. I followed my own checklist and produced an outstanding lather with the same brush and cream. Please do pay attention to the details as until you get it right you are going to continue to become more and more frustrated.
BTW, did I miss your name?

[dax702]

I'm Mike.. I'll give it a try tonite... it's my shaving night lol... I yearn for the day when I'll be able to shave every day instead of every 3 days :lol:

[guenron]

Mike,
You need not shave to practice making lather. Let's get this right before Friday!!!!!:thumbup1:

[dax702]

Here is what I have:
http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=fl0047&channelid=

It says it goes to 154 degrees so maybe it'll work just right =)

[htownmmm]

Dax,

take your time and chill-don't give up yet. You will find a difference in your shaves once your technique improves and you have the blades that work for your face the best.

until then,work on your technique( blade angle and building lather)-these will last you a lifetime (and they don't cost anything!)

Marty