Pasted Paddle Strop vs Hones

[Gr8Cook]

I have sent my razor out to get honed. I bought it brand new and it needed to get the bevel set and honed to shaving sharp.

However, it will need to be maintained.

After reading through The Interactive Guide to Straight Razor Shaving (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33718) I decided that I would start with the pasted paddle strop (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=347334#post347334). But after I did the numbers I realized that for almost the same amount of money I could roll with a Dia Sharp 8k and a Spyderco Ultra Fine.

The Numbers

Paddle Strop Setup

$57 - 4 Sided Tony Miller Paddle Strop
$17 - .25 micron diamond paste
$16 - .50 micron diamond paste
$17 - 1.0 micron diamond paste
$22 - 9.0 micron diamond paste (I couldn't find 3.0 paste)

Total - $129


Hones

$46 Spyderco Ultrafine
$90 Dia Sharp 8k

Total - $136

So, for $7 more I get a permanent, un-knickable honing setup that does not need to be maintained with (expensive!) pastes.

I did notice that I could buy the tony miller paddle strop pre-pasted for an extra $20 but I'm thinking that I could maintain my razor just fine on the Spyderco for a while and get it for less than the paddle strop.

Any thoughts?

I'm curious because the guide made it seem so clear that the paddle strops were the cheapest way to go.

Cook

[jnich67]

I haven't looked at Tony's prices in a while, but I think you can get them pre-pasted for a lot less than what you have there. The paste doesn't have to be replenished very often unless you're using it for a bunch of razors - especially on the higher grits.

Generally, the paddle strop is considered easier to use than the hones and that's why its often recommended for newbies. In the end though, you'll probably want a couple of hones.

Jordan

EDIT: I just Checked Tony's site. He should have the paddles back in stock in a few more days. You can get four sides pasted for $20 extra. So the cost of the strop with pastes is $76.

[Thomas]

If you're getting your razor already honed, I don't see a need for anything larger than .5 micron. I use .5 green chrome paste and get a keen edge, and have no reason to look further.

Although, I did just buy the chinese 12k today, to try and tame an unruly Friodur.

[Ookla The Mok]

I am also kicking around the differences between the two. In the end, I will most likely have at least a strop setup and at least 2 different stones. I am at this point leaning heavily toward the strop side. I think it is the less skill intensive way. While I am sure honing on a stone isn't rocket science, I am certain it is easier to damage the blade or overhone on a stone. If a nice bevel is set by someone with experience honing, I would hate to ruin it on a stone.

My understanding is that I could get away with just using a pasted paddle for years using a 6 or 7 blade rotation of professionally honed razors.
I will ceratinly learn to hone for myself, but I will more than likely try that once I have a better perspective on the differences in sharpness and smoothness.

[Daves]

I got a 4 sided paddle strop from Tony Miller. I had him paste it on 3 sides. It has worked very well. Since then I have bought some Norton stones but I think the paddle is the best way to start. If you have Tony paste it for you it will be a lot less money than your estimate.

DaveS

[joel]

I have sent my razor out to get honed. I bought it brand new and it needed to get the bevel set and honed to shaving sharp.

However, it will need to be maintained.

After reading through The Interactive Guide to Straight Razor Shaving (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33718) I decided that I would start with the pasted paddle strop (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=347334#post347334). But after I did the numbers I realized that for almost the same amount of money I could roll with a Dia Sharp 8k and a Spyderco Ultra Fine.

The Numbers

Paddle Strop Setup

$57 - 4 Sided Tony Miller Paddle Strop
$17 - .25 micron diamond paste
$16 - .50 micron diamond paste
$17 - 1.0 micron diamond paste
$22 - 9.0 micron diamond paste (I couldn't find 3.0 paste)

Total - $129


Hones

$46 Spyderco Ultrafine
$90 Dia Sharp 8k

Total - $136

So, for $7 more I get a permanent, un-knickable honing setup that does not need to be maintained with (expensive!) pastes.

I did notice that I could buy the tony miller paddle strop pre-pasted for an extra $20 but I'm thinking that I could maintain my razor just fine on the Spyderco for a while and get it for less than the paddle strop.

Any thoughts?

I'm curious because the guide made it seem so clear that the paddle strops were the cheapest way to go.

Cook

Cook,
Actually buying the tubes of abrasive is WAY overkill. I have touched up hundreds of razors without needing to re-paste a strop. As stated, Tony will paste each side for about $5, so it makes it a WAY less expensive option. If you know where to look, you can get diamond paste pretty inexpensive as well - but again, you shouldn't need it.... for a REALLY long time.

[ScottS]

I haven't tried honing yet, but all the advice I've read seems to indicate that using a paddle strop might be easier than honing.

[2Sharp]

One more option would be to make your own paddle strop in your wood shop and it would be very reasonable. The most expensive part would be the pastes. I prefer to make two sided paddle strops because of the weight. I also prefer the balsa covered instead of the leather.

bj

[riooso]

I got Tony's 4 sided strops to my door for $86.00 to my door. I bought a 4 sided with 3,1,0.5,0.25 and it is one nice setup. If you read further you will see some people like 0.5 Chromium because it is smoother than diamond so they make their 4 sided differently. Tony is great and his products are really great. I also bought the DMT 8000 grit plate and it is working well for me. I have been able to keep up my razors and do a little light honing with this setup.


Richard

[FloppyShoes]

Another (IMHO better) option is a Norton 4k/8k and a chinese 12k. (approx $100 total before shipping)

Between the two, you would have all you need to have terribly sharp edges. But that's just my opinion.

[Gr8Cook]

Thanks for all the replies!

Joel, that bit about the pastes is very helpful. If you haven't needed more paste then I never would.

While I have not decided, the way I look at it right now is that $40 is cheaper than $76. Would I not eventually need to get the 8k Dia Sharp regardless of which system I used (for nicks and so forth)? (I am planning on the diasharp because of the review it got in the honing shootout. (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29575) Not only is the hone itself a bit cheaper but I don't have to buy another hone to flatten it with.)

I hear what folks are saying about needing less skill for the pasted strop but, as far as I can tell, the only way to get the skill is practice.

I don't have a hard-on for getting a hone. I started this completely sold on the pasted strop and was only put off when I did the numbers.

Am I missing something?

I am very skilled with my hands and can be exceptionally patient when the situation calls for it.

What I am seeing is that I can accomplish essentially the same thing for $40 as for $76.

Please do continue to enlighten me.

Cook

[Tony Miller]

You could grow a beard for free and be WAY ahead of the game. Free is less than $40 or $76 <g>

I can't really comment on ease of use as one is my product amd I am biased. I will say I started with just a hanging strop from Classic many years ago and finally figured a paddle was much easier to use....so started making them afterwards because I wanted something different than what was on the market.

They will be back shortly, wood work is finsihed, leather bonding is next.

Nothing wrong with the hone route either but it takes more to learn. I own an extensive selection of natural stones but rarely use them.

Tony

[riooso]

Tony is being modest because he is an honest guy and there is a conflict because he makes a 4 sided strop. I don't think there is any real "correct" setup but I will tell you that the paddle is quick and was the ticket to get into shaving without messing with a stone. The diamond paste cuts really quickly, 6 laps on any side makes a difference and that is saying a lot. To have a sharp razor is a big deal when starting, I didn't, and it took me longer to get to a shave that passed the Bay Rum splash test.

Good luck,
R

[Gr8Cook]

You could grow a beard for free and be WAY ahead of the game. Free is less than $40 or $76 <g>

I can't really comment on ease of use as one is my product amd I am biased. I will say I started with just a hanging strop from Classic many years ago and finally figured a paddle was much easier to use....so started making them afterwards because I wanted something different than what was on the market.

They will be back shortly, wood work is finsihed, leather bonding is next.

Nothing wrong with the hone route either but it takes more to learn. I own an extensive selection of natural stones but rarely use them.

Tony

Having a beard and not having a beard are not the same thing.

While I am sure that you were being funny the fact is that I am told that the end results are the same (spyderco vs pasted strop).

So this is the question, are the Spyderco UF and the pasted strop equivalent?

If not, in what ways?

Cook

[ScottS]

Having a beard and not having a beard are not the same thing.

While I am sure that you were being funny the fact is that I am told that the end results are the same (spyderco vs pasted strop).

So this is the question, are the Spyderco UF and the pasted strop equivalent?

If not, in what ways?

Cook

There are lots of ways to finish a blade. The end result might be the same, but the path there may not be. Many would agree that a pasted paddle is pretty easy to use. It's pretty hard to screw up. It's a fairly reliable way to get a sharp blade in shape. If you go the pasted paddle route, you are not set up to fix up a dull blade, but you wouldn't be even if you went with the hones you're mentioning.

So, your biggest risk is not being able to keep your blade sharp with the hone, buying the stro, then selling the hone or not, and having some down time.

[kenrup]

If you want to hone your own. You need the stones. If you just want to keep a razor in prime shape the paddle will shave you a ton of money and it is much quicker to use. The learning curve for honing is pretty steep. You use the same stropping technique on the paddle as you do for your daily stropping.

[Suzuki]

Cook,
Actually buying the tubes of abrasive is WAY overkill. I have touched up hundreds of razors without needing to re-paste a strop. As stated, Tony will paste each side for about $5, so it makes it a WAY less expensive option. If you know where to look, you can get diamond paste pretty inexpensive as well - but again, you shouldn't need it.... for a REALLY long time.

+1 In over a year of straight shaving, I've only had to re-paste my .25 side, which is what gets the most use. I got a tube of .25 for something like $6 - $8 on sale (standard diamond concentration).


I haven't tried honing yet, but all the advice I've read seems to indicate that using a paddle strop might be easier than honing.

It is - while I really enjoy my collection of vintage barbers' hones, my standard recommendation to newbies is to go the pasted paddle route. I have one of Tony's 4-sided strops and its the sharpening tool that sees the most use - by a long shot.


One more option would be to make your own paddle strop in your wood shop and it would be very reasonable. The most expensive part would be the pastes. I prefer to make two sided paddle strops because of the weight. I also prefer the balsa covered instead of the leather.

bj

If you make your own wood paddle (and there's no reason why any semi-skilled woodworker can't), be sure to use a well-seasoned piece of wood and that you lap the stropping surface absolutely flat and finish it with fine sandpaper.


Tony is being modest because he is an honest guy and there is a conflict because he makes a 4 sided strop. I don't think there is any real "correct" setup but I will tell you that the paddle is quick and was the ticket to get into shaving without messing with a stone. The diamond paste cuts really quickly, 6 laps on any side makes a difference and that is saying a lot. To have a sharp razor is a big deal when starting, I didn't, and it took me longer to get to a shave that passed the Bay Rum splash test.

Good luck,
R

Ditto on both Tony's modesty (his products are top notch, as is his service) and again on the pasted strop being easier to start out with than hones.

[Tony Miller]

Having a beard and not having a beard are not the same thing.

While I am sure that you were being funny the fact is that I am told that the end results are the same (spyderco vs pasted strop).

So this is the question, are the Spyderco UF and the pasted strop equivalent?

If not, in what ways?

Cook


Yes, I was trying to be funny and honest hence the grin <g>. Both will get the same end result. One is more work to learn but cheaper, the other slightly more expensive but easy to learn to use. They are equivalent in the end but different in how you get there. Buy the hone.

Tony

[ScottS]

If you want to hone your own. You need the stones.

But not necessarily THOSE stones, or more accurately, not only those stones.

[jnich67]

Lets be honest, within a year, you will most likely have a paddle strop and a collection of hones along with a dozen razors or so- so its just a matter of what you want to buy first. :wink:

Jordan

[riooso]

Lets be honest, within a year, you will most likely have a paddle strop and a collection of hones along with a dozen razors or so- so its just a matter of what you want to buy first. :wink:

Jordan

A point well taken but the most important thing in the beginning is to conquer the strait razor demon! Concentrate your energies having to do with the razor to the face. The guys on this forum know of which they speak. The pasted strop, whatever form it has, is the quickest and easiest way to consolidate those energies and help assure success. IMHO


Take Care,
Richard

[ScottS]

Lets be honest, within a year, you will most likely have a paddle strop and a collection of hones along with a dozen razors or so- so its just a matter of what you want to buy first. :wink:

Jordan

Aside from the blades, though, I think a person could plan ahead a bit and hold down to necessary purchases. People often buy that next hone because they're not happy with their current outcomes. Buy right, at the start, and some of that goes away.

[Gr8Cook]

A point well taken but the most important thing in the beginning is to conquer the strait razor demon! Concentrate your energies having to do with the razor to the face. The guys on this forum know of which they speak. The pasted strop, whatever form it has, is the quickest and easiest way to consolidate those energies and help assure success. IMHO


Take Care,
Richard

You guys are great. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for and the quote above sums it up very well.

Ok Tony, it looks like I will be placing an order shortly.

My agonizing over this is based on my particularly tight money situation.

Roughly how long will it be before I need to touch up the edge (i.e. paddle strop time)?

Oh and Tony, I HAVE a beard and I don't see that saving me a bunch of money! :biggrin:

(I'll be logging my beard down to a goatee shortly.)

Cook

[ScottS]

Y
Roughly how long will it be before I need to touch up the edge (i.e. paddle strop time)?


I'll tell you what Tony told me. Could be you roll your edge on your first stropping attempt, and need to touch it up. Could be a month. When you need it, you'll be glad to have it around. I'm finding that I need to touch up after about ten shaves. I think this might be a little short, but I've been shaving with a Feather AC for two years, and I like a very sharp blade.

The key is that once you start, you don't want to have to stop while waiting for the next real necessity to be delivered.

[Tony Miller]

Cook,
I think you find the frequency of use will depend on many factors. Once pasted though I think you will easily go 6 months or more before pasting again is needed and I can do that as well, still saving over buying tubes of paste.
We are switching over to paddle production on Monday so look for them shortly after that.

I too have a partial beard and no, it didn't save me money either <g>

Tony