Is B&B Always Question-Friendly?

[wetshavingmonkey]

Earlier today, I posted a thread (http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36323) requesting a fairly specific brush recommendation. As you read the thread, you will see that things got a little dicey between yomuppet and myself because I took exception to this comment he made: “ Yes, definitely better for others to spend their time answering once again“. He said this, I assume, in response to me saying that, “I’m too lazy” to search the database for the information I wanted. Now, actually, I’m not too lazy to search the database (that was meant as a joke), but I was pretty specific about the brush I wanted, and I hoped a knowledgeable member would offer some sage advice -- without a condescending tone.

This situation brings several things to the forefront of my mind. Firstly, because we only “know” each other through our posts, we really don’t know each other. There was a good chance that yomuppet was just joking back with his comment, but without seeing his facial expression or hearing the exact tone in which it was spoken, I can only take the comment at face value. And face value says, “I’m talking down to you”. But, if he was joking, wouldn’t it have been prudent on his part to place a smiley next to the comment? That would definitely convey the “I’m just joking” message pretty clearly. After all, isn’t that part of what the smilies are for? To add a facial expression to a comment to help avoid a misunderstanding?

This leads me to my next thought. Yomuppet has almost 4 times as many posts as I do, and I wonder if he would have made that same comment to a member with as many posts as himself. Is there a bit of hierarchy at B&B -- whether real or imagined? I sure hope not, that was one of the reasons I quit posting at Epinions.

Isn’t the core purpose of B&B to educate and introduce others to the world of wet shaving? If so, doesn’t that kind of behoove the more knowledgeable members to share the wealth of their experience? As a knowledgeable person in any field, one should be aware that there will be some repetitious questions asked of them. What good, then, is that knowledgeable individual if they are going to sit in a white tower and tell others, “That question has already been asked and answered -- go search the database”. If one finds that answering the same, or similar, question to be highly annoying, then one can simply bypass the thread, and no one’s the wiser. But stopping by to leave an answer attached to an insult is somewhat malicious, if you ask me.

If I didn’t want help, I wouldn’t ask for it. Case in point: I bought my first brush (Omega 6214) without requesting input from any member at B&B -- I read reviews elsewhere because that brush had yet to be reviewed here. Keeping that in mind, is it possible that there is a brush that really fits my recommendation that has also not been reviewed at B&B? If so, then yomuppet’s comment is really off-base.

I know it takes two to tango, but I will justify myself by the fact that yomuppet drew first blood, and I don’t care if he recommends a site that’s giving away free silvertip brushes, I’m not going to let anybody talk to me in a disrespectful manner and not come back at them. So, is B&B the place to learn more about wet shaving techniques and accoutrements by asking questions, or are the answers to every possible inquiry already stored in the database? If it’s the former, then some members should perhaps rethink their reasons for being here. If it’s the latter, then I promise I will never post another question at this site.

[Must Dash]

Mr Monkey

I believe that the points you raise are worthy of being raised, and you clearly put a lot of thought into your post, but I'm not sure that mentioning another member by name is in the best spirit of this site.

Cheers


Jeremy

[Scotto]

The facts speak for themselves. While no site is perfect due to the humans involved, B&B is about the friendliest place out there. In general people go out of their way to help others whether or not a question has been asked a million times.

In all honesty, I find this post a bit trollish.... Like it or not, without non-verbal cues, we all need to think the best of each other until proven otherwise. I would suggest you take a deep breath. It's only shaving.

That being said, there is a hierarchy here, and I am at the top. :smile: :rolleyes:

[norman931]

I think you guys should shake hands and try that again. Really, the brush forum is the hardest one to get any info out of. I started at least one thread over there that died from lack of a response. And the search forum is useless for learning about brushes, unless you already have a specific one in mind. FWIW, the brush he recommended is the one I use every day, and I would second him on that.

Norm

[rabidpotatochip]

I would let it go. Much like the rest of your daily life, you will run into people you don't really get along with. I don't mean that in a bad way, just that even if everybody here is an upstanding individual personalities can still clash, and posting a thread like this could be considered offensive by some.

As somewhat of an aside, maybe if a lot of the questions are getting asked over and over and the search is hard to get information out of we (everyone with any idea what they're talking about) should be putting more in the wiki. :wink:

[RichGem]

I'd say chalk it up to someone having (apparently) a really bad day.

I have to say that I'm sure that I've asked my share of newbie & dumb questions, but the guys here have always been friendly and helpful. If someone didn't give me a detailed answer, I was given a link to the exact answer I was looking for.

In the past I've been a member of a few linux boards inhabited by a large population of "old" unix wizards and know-it-alls (which indeed, they might be). Probably only 1/3 of my posts were answered with anything helpful. Most kind responses consisted in: "well just google it" (google is indeed a fantastic linux resource), or the post just being ignored. A large percentage of responses consisted in: "FNG, RTFM" (f-ing new guy, read the f-ing manual (or man pages)).

What I still don't understand on those boards is the need to vent spleen. If the question is stupid to you (obviously it isn't to me), or beneath you, or a waste of time, then don't answer the post. period. If it's that bad, then leave it to the mods to deal with. Not every board has a great search function, not every newbie knows where to find things or how to make a good search.

Here tho, totally different story. I have no idea what the mods have to deal with, but here responses are helpful and often humorous (even if we do get a bit side tracked at times). (not that there's anything wrong with that 99% of the time)

So, I'm sorry you had that experience here. It's atypical. Forgive and forget.

My 2.5 cents.

[riooso]

I am new here and have never had a bad reply. Hey s---t happen! There are not very many crazy instances but things happen. I don't get along with my brother all the time but I love him :mad3:

I love you man!!

Got any spare shaving lotion :001_rolle?

Take Care,
Richard

[wetshavingmonkey]

Mr Monkey

I believe that the points you raise are worthy of being raised, and you clearly put a lot of thought into your post, but I'm not sure that mentioning another member by name is in the best spirit of this site.

Cheers


Jeremy

But being a jerk is in the best spirit?

[wetshavingmonkey]

The facts speak for themselves. While no site is perfect due to the humans involved, B&B is about the friendliest place out there. In general people go out of their way to help others whether or not a question has been asked a million times.

In all honesty, I find this post a bit trollish.... Like it or not, without non-verbal cues, we all need to think the best of each other until proven otherwise. I would suggest you take a deep breath. It's only shaving.

That being said, there is a hierarchy here, and I am at the top. :smile: :rolleyes:

Uh, what does "trollish" mean? I checked dictionary.com and googled the heck out of that word to no avail.

[yardpup01]

Uh, what does "trollish" mean? I checked dictionary.com and googled the heck out of that word to no avail.

When it comes to forums a 'troll' is someone who posts a thread looking to cause trouble and get heated responses.

[cl00bie]

I know it takes two to tango, but I will justify myself by the fact that ****** drew first blood, and I don’t care if he recommends a site that’s giving away free silvertip brushes, I’m not going to let anybody talk to me in a disrespectful manner and not come back at them. So, is B&B the place to learn more about wet shaving techniques and accoutrements by asking questions, or are the answers to every possible inquiry already stored in the database? If it’s the former, then some members should perhaps rethink their reasons for being here. If it’s the latter, then I promise I will never post another question at this site.

This and most any other forum you might join are populated by people. These are people who have different temperaments, different levels of patience with n00bs and different reasons for coming here.

Sometimes a perfectly nice person can have a bad day and come out with a "zinger". I know I've been known to do so at times. Other times, a person might just be nasty and confrontational. I say: "take the advice that's useful, ignore the advice that isn't and let what you consider offensive comments roll off your back."


(BTW, some people might take you to task for turning an incident into a feud thread. Some people, mind you... :001_smile)

[indykramer]

Perhaps he was joking in his reply as well. Sarcasm is hard to detect in typing. Coming back at him in such a manner was probably not the best thing to do either. If you bark at another dog he's going to bark back only louder next time. If you were truly joking say that you were so like Norm suggested you could shake hands and enjoy the rest of your Saturday night.

[Must Dash]

But being a jerk is in the best spirit?

No, of course not. I've read several of your threads, and the point I was trying to make was that you should maintain your own high standards regardless.

Cheers

Jeremy

[wetshavingmonkey]

Well, my closing thought is this... :a52: Good night, and God bless.

Sincerely,

"The Troll" (Formally, The Wetshavingmonkey)

[rabidpotatochip]

When it comes to forums a 'troll' is someone who posts a thread looking to cause trouble and get heated responses.

The origin actually goes back to fishing... trolling is dragging bait along in the water. So when one is said to be trolling they're baiting people to say something nasty. Of course, with the internet being the Internet eventually it got shortened to simply being a troll.

This educational moment brought to you by the number seven. :wink:

[yardpup01]

Yay seven!

[scoopster]

The origin actually goes back to fishing...

This educational moment brought to you by the number seven. :wink:
Sunny day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street

Come and play
Everything's A-okay
Friendly neighbors there
That's where we meet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street

It's a magic carpet ride
Every door will open wide
To happy people like you
Happy people like
What a beautiful

Sunny day
Sweepin' the clouds away
On my way to where the air is sweet

Can you tell me how to get
How to get to Sesame Street...

How to get to Sesame Street

[Lionhearted]

So, is B&B the place to learn more about wet shaving techniques and accoutrements by asking questions, or are the answers to every possible inquiry already stored in the database? If it’s the former, then some members should perhaps rethink their reasons for being here. If it’s the latter, then I promise I will never post another question at this site.
B&B is a place where much nonsense is posted by vocal members who learned poor or downright silly techniques and ideas from other vocal members. Much stuff about shaving is purely subjective, especially about brushes and blades and lather, yet some members talk as though it were factual. There's not much to say about a brush other than give its size and price and an opinion as to how soft or scratchy it seems or how floppy or stiff it is. I've found you can't tell anything about a brush (other than size and price) until you've used it a few times.

I sometimes ask questions here I'm sure have been asked before because the search function on this forum isn't too hot. It either returns nothing or 300 items that after going through all of them you find they have nothing to do with what you wanted to know. Sometimes answers point me to older threads which is fine.

There are literally hundreds of brushes that meet the criteria you posted in the other thread. Your continuing conversation there was out of line. The person you're complaining about gave you a specific answer that's as good as you can get but no better than a hundred other possible answers.

Richard

[Ookla The Mok]

This educational moment brought to you by the number seven. :wink:

What, A number of the day and no letter of the day? I call shenanigans!

[Timmy!]

Being a newbie, I sure hope so! Patience is definitely needed with us! The best we can do is act like adults and be civil to one another. We all seem to share a common interest here, so why not enjoy ourselves and have fun learning at the same time.

[johnniegold]

Being a newbie, I sure hope so! Patience is definitely needed with us! The best we can do is act like adults and be civil to one another. We all seem to share a common interest here, so why not enjoy ourselves and have fun learning at the same time.


Welcome to B&B Timmy!! (second exclamation point is mine)

[Timmy!]

Why thank you, kind sir! LOL I use the "!" excessively anyway! Ha!

[DEmac]

A while ago someone asked the question "is wet shaving a religion?" I just realized it is much like a religion in the respect that everybody has a slightly different idea of what the perfect way of practicing is and fundamentalists doesn't understand why some people are happy doing it differently. And some people don't even shave at all (atheists) hehe.

If a wet shaving fundamentalist gets bent out of shape in a thread we should do the same thing we do to religous fundamentalists, ignore them so that they know they are not important.

I've seen several instances where someone brought up a question or issue which had been asked before. For the most part when this happens someone adds something to the general knowledge which was not brought up during the previous discussions. That's the idea here, keep bringing up new ideas about well covered issues. That is how we learn. Because of the nature of this site many issues are going to be brought up over and over again, go with it.

[rtaylor61]

This is a great place to ask questions. You don't know, want to know...ask! However, shaving is common sense. I've seen SO many "stupid" questions asked here, I just have to shake my head. It has been suggested that we create a large number of "sticky" threads that answer basic questions. And while I sometimes get tired of answering some questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (I've been here since the beginning), I prefer skipping the "sticky" threads in favor of member participation. I've been asked "how do I rinse the shaving cream from my razor?" by pm! Okay, while I want to say "turn on the FUC(^&G water", I don't do that. I've seen trolls, I've seen idiots, and I've seen folks serious about wanting to learn the "ins and outs" of wetshaving. I go with the flow and try to respond when I can.

If you have a question, ask! But think first. Folks will ask "what _______ (insert razor, cream, soap, blade, brush, etc.) will work best for me?". Well, no one can answer that question. We can only offer opinion. How can we improve this? Well, for example, rather than ask "what brush will work best for me?", the question should be "I like a dense brush that is soft on the face but works well with soaps...what would you suggest?". No, we don't get that very often.

Sometimes the questions we get asked remind me of the old Sam Kenison joke about Karen Carpenter (and no disrespect to Karen...a favorite of mine) when he said "Karen wasn't sick...she was hungry! Give her a sandwich!"...

Okay, I'm making a bit of fun here. Seriously, if you have a question, ask it. But DO use common sense. And use the "Search" feature. If you have a question and are worried about what others will think, then send me a pm. It may be a day or two before I respond, but I'll get back to you.

I want all members here to feel at home and to be comfortable. You should never be afraid to ask a question. This isn't rocket science. It is something that men have done since, well, since men have been men.

Randy

[rtaylor61]

I am new here and have never had a bad reply. Hey s---t happen! There are not very many crazy instances but things happen. I don't get along with my brother all the time but I love him :mad3:

I love you man!!

Got any spare shaving lotion :001_rolle?

Take Care,
Richard

I've got gallons of spare shaving lotion...but you still aren't getting my Bud Light!

Randy

[riooso]

LOL :lol: I was afraid I had dated myself! AGAIN!!! It is Super Bowl tomorrow you know? I kinda fish and see what hooks. You got to think life is funny or it will drive you to drink.

Take Care,
R

[crichton]

You got to think life is funny or it will drive you to drink.

Take Care,
R

+1 :thumbup1:

[Suzuki]

This is a great place to ask questions. You don't know, want to know...ask! However, shaving is common sense. I've seen SO many "stupid" questions asked here, I just have to shake my head. It has been suggested that we create a large number of "sticky" threads that answer basic questions. And while I sometimes get tired of answering some questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (I've been here since the beginning), I prefer skipping the "sticky" threads in favor of member participation. I've been asked "how do I rinse the shaving cream from my razor?" by pm! Okay, while I want to say "turn on the FUC(^&G water", I don't do that. I've seen trolls, I've seen idiots, and I've seen folks serious about wanting to learn the "ins and outs" of wetshaving. I go with the flow and try to respond when I can.

If you have a question, ask! But think first. Folks will ask "what _______ (insert razor, cream, soap, blade, brush, etc.) will work best for me?". Well, no one can answer that question. We can only offer opinion. How can we improve this? Well, for example, rather than ask "what brush will work best for me?", the question should be "I like a dense brush that is soft on the face but works well with soaps...what would you suggest?". No, we don't get that very often.

Sometimes the questions we get asked remind me of the old Sam Kenison joke about Karen Carpenter (and no disrespect to Karen...a favorite of mine) when he said "Karen wasn't sick...she was hungry! Give her a sandwich!"...

Okay, I'm making a bit of fun here. Seriously, if you have a question, ask it. But DO use common sense. And use the "Search" feature. If you have a question and are worried about what others will think, then send me a pm. It may be a day or two before I respond, but I'll get back to you.

I want all members here to feel at home and to be comfortable. You should never be afraid to ask a question. This isn't rocket science. It is something that men have done since, well, since men have been men.

Randy

+1

Including the part about sending a PM if you have what you think might be a "stupid" question you dont' want to ask in the forums.

I guarantee it won't be the stupidest question I've seen here...

Sometimes members find it frustrating to see the same type of posts over and over again, but we should remember that we too were once newbies or had questions we didn't know the answer to.

[F16WarBird]

I would comment, but I think it's definitely better for others to spend their time commenting once again. :tongue:

[krawlx]

The facts speak for themselves. While no site is perfect due to the humans involved, B&B is about the friendliest place out there. In general people go out of their way to help others whether or not a question has been asked a million times.

In all honesty, I find this post a bit trollish.... Like it or not, without non-verbal cues, we all need to think the best of each other until proven otherwise. I would suggest you take a deep breath. It's only shaving.

That being said, there is a hierarchy here, and I am at the top. :smile: :rolleyes:

+1 on all points.

If i remember my very first post here correctly I asked about a good starting set-up and got a prompt, friendly, (and very helpful by the way) response.

In the original thread that this thread is written in response to, the tone of the messages does get a little snippy, and perhaps it could have been worded gentler. However, one snippy, and perhaps out of character, response should not be a reason to leave this forum. Stay around and enjoy all the great advice.

[jlander]

:a35:
The facts speak for themselves. While no site is perfect due to the humans involved, B&B is about the friendliest place out there. In general people go out of their way to help others whether or not a question has been asked a million times.

In all honesty, I find this post a bit trollish.... Like it or not, without non-verbal cues, we all need to think the best of each other until proven otherwise. I would suggest you take a deep breath. It's only shaving.

That being said, there is a hierarchy here, and I am at the top. :smile: :rolleyes:

I thought Nick was at the top. :innocent:

[theperfectstorm]

Never worry about seeming stupid. Every day I see spelling and grammar problems here that make me want to cry. Even people with tons of money for shaving stuff can still be butt-ignorant.

Think before you post, be respectful, do not take anything said here the least bit seriously.

Just enjoy yourself, try and learn something, and help when you can. Sod the Prols.

[rabidpotatochip]

What, A number of the day and no letter of the day? I call shenanigans!

Yesterday the alphabet was not my friend. :wink:

[ouch]

That being said, there is a hierarchy here, and I am at the top. :smile: :rolleyes:

This is all you need to know- Scotto is Mount Everest, and I'm the Marianas Trench. :thumbup1:


Perhaps he was joking in his reply as well. Sarcasm is hard to detect in typing.

I've made a few posts that would indicate otherwise. :tongue_sm




Seriously, it's best to keep arguments and conflicts out of the forum.

[RichGem]

Yesterday the alphabet was not my friend. :wink:

In truth, the letters went on strike and refused to sponsor the day. They'll make up for it tomorrow with double sponsorship now that their contract has been renegotiated.

[norman931]

Seriously, it's best to keep arguments and conflicts out of the forum.

I disagree! :001_tongu

Norm

[kwk285]

I had a teacher in high school that was a riot. I still remember something he said to our class and I say to my daughters all of the time...Remember, there is no such thing as a stupid question only stupid people asking questions.:biggrin:

[prewt]

In truth, the letters went on strike and refused to sponsor the day. They'll make up for it tomorrow with double sponsorship now that their contract has been renegotiated.


Thats it!! I am going to become C OLO R s new PR man. If they were my client during that one day strike, I would have had The STREET sign a 3 year contract with an option to renew and shown those elite LETTERS a thing or two. ( like the door and a job application at the soup factory).

[wetshavingmonkey]

You know, Scotto mentioned that this post was "trollish", and in a sense, he was right -- but not in the manner that most think that term implies. If I was trolling for anything, it would have been for a modicum of support concerning member-to-member respect. Judging by the responses, it seems that my core point was missed in all of my rambling. See, I was raised with the belief of, "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all", and I adhere to that belief wholeheartedly. I am also very easily offended if I detect unsolicited rudeness. So, my point is, this individual went out of his way to be rude, and I don't understand that kind of behavior. The bottom line is I actually got what I wanted through these responses, and truth be told, when I am at the point of sounding off, it is because there have been multiple instances of this type of rudeness that went unmentioned -- this one is just the last straw for me. And when I reach the point of saying what I said, the decision was already made in regards to asking any more questions --I won't. If this sounds like childish pouting to you, then so be it. I am just sick of being accosted by rude and arrogant people in my day-to-day life, and I find it very disappointing that something that should be fun is just the same old crap. Keep in mind, this is the first forum I have been a member of, so I guess this is just my learning curve.

[RichGem]

Thats it!! I am going to become C OLO R s new PR man. If they were my client during that one day strike, I would have had The STREET sign a 3 year contract with an option to renew and shown those elite LETTERS a thing or two. ( like the door and a job application at the soup factory).

Colors are soooo '70s. :tongue:

[jellywerker]

I sometimes ask questions here I'm sure have been asked before because the search function on this forum isn't too hot. It either returns nothing or 300 items that after going through all of them you find they have nothing to do with what you wanted to know. Sometimes answers point me to older threads which is fine.

The reason it seems so bad is that vbulletin uses a simple keyword search. Unlike google, which uses human interaction and mathematical filters to improve their results, forum searches just scan the database for the word/s you searched for.

[Hobbesoxon]

Just to weigh in on the topic of forum advice, the Internet is a funny thing. You can't really tell if someone is genuinely being negative to you - many times it's just a misunderstanding.

I think the golden rule is, if you think someone may have attempted to be unpleasant to you, just ignore it.

This works really well in daily life, too, I've found. I never see an elderly prof. get into an argument - if someone says something offensive, he just cools right down and puts some polite distance into the conversation. Very gentlemanly, and avoids a lot of red faces.


Toodlepip,

Hobbes

[rtaylor61]

One thing to remember. We were all once "beginners". We all had questions and were looking for answers. Now...some of us are old enough that the internet and forums were not around back when we started shaving. SO...if you have a question, just ask. And if you think it is stupid or are embarrassed to ask on the open forum...pm a mod or another member. We joke around a lot, and we make fun a lot, but no question should go unanswered. We are all here to help each other. And that is what B&B is all about. Having fun, sharing and helping. And Scotto, yes, you are at the top. I wear a hat and I tip it to you in honor.

Randy

[Mr. Gillette]

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN ARE WE QUESTION FRIENDLY?!! WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT?!!!!!

I'm sorry that happened. I've asked a few questions here and there, and have gotten some answers...some good ones, and at other times have had the response "We covered that about 2 months ago look HERE

And the other thing-- sometimes people don't read your question all the way through...

As a fairly long-lived member of B&B...I'm sorry that happened. I've found it to be a friendly and informative community. I hope you get your answer.

ONE HINT...read a lot in certain forums, like the Brush Forum...look for someone who seems to know, and just PM that person with your specific question, even if it's one of the moderators. I've gotten some very nice, and very good information that way.

Again, sorry for all that-- I'm just waiting for that B&B Essential brush to come out and take care of all of my brush worries for the rest of my life!!!

[masonjarjar]

I almost left a few days after I found this place because of a post I made about coffee in the Speakeasy section, and was accused of being a troll. Simply because I mentioned "cheap" coffee in a thread about high-end coffee.

I realized that I jumped the gun and posted before I realized the true intent of the thread, but I also realized that any community is going to have a wide varity of personalities. It takes time to get to know them. I've been on the internet so long that sometimes I dive right in and start posting no matter how long I've been around some site.

So, while I think I might have scratched a few the wrong way with my posting, I also admit that I jumped in without realizing the culture of that particular board. All parties shook hands and it was ok. I just chalked it up as a learning experience. Though I know there are a lot of guys here I probably wouldn't get along with outside of this community, I think for the most part everyone gets along here just fine..

-Mason

[guitarslinger]

Rules-wise this place is pretty strict.

There was a "Favorite pipe thread" in the speakeasy. I post a picture of a glass crack pipe.

They deleted it like it was offensive or something.:frown:

[loueedacat]

This site has one of the least snippy audiences I've ever seen. I think most posters enjoy responding to questions even if they've been asked before. And on the odd occasion where someone is a little testy, it's not worth worrying about, and is usually more than offset by the helpful friendly responses.

And if it makes someone's day to feel intellectually superior to a new poster because of their superior lathering ability or knowledge of knot density, hey, that's a really harmless way to make someone's day is all I can say. :001_smile

[moses]

I've thought about whether to reply to this thread or not for a while, and have finally decided I do have some things to say. They have mostly been said already in this thread, but still. This thread does raise some important issues for the forum, especially as it continues to grow at an amazing rate.

First of all, I think B&B has always been question friendly, I believe it still is, and I hope it stays that way. I remember getting a whole lot of very helpful suggestions when I first started using a DE. Now, I don't perhaps have the time to respond as often as I would like, but I try to pass on the favor by responding to questions where I think I have a helpful answer. Other experienced members do a much better job than I of this, and we all owe them a big debt.

It is a little too easy, when you've been here a while, to see a question and think, "you fool, that's been asked a million times, go find the answer." The truth is, that's not really fair, and I hope members would restrain themselves from actually posting that response (and I only see it very rarely, I might add). Yes, most of these questions do get asked from time to time. But the search feature is not always as helpful as we would like to think. Sometimes the newbie doesn't really know what to search for. Besides, a big part of what this forum is about, is providing information to those interested in more traditional shaving. So it only makes sense that we should expect some repetitive questions from time to time. And not get overly annoyed when they come up.

For those of you on the more experienced side, I would encourage the following course of action, when encountering a thread asking a fairly basic question. First, if you don't have time to answer, don't. Second, if you do answer, be helpful, and don't make some poor newbie feel dumb for asking. Third, nothing wrong with saying, "I think there were some helpful threads on this, try searching" but see above. If you have time to link to an old and helpful thread, that's always really nice, but does take a bit more time. Finally, regardless, remember that we are trying to keep B&B friendly, welcoming, and civil.

For the newbies, a few suggestions as well. First, use common sense, this isn't rocket science. You can probably figure out how to rinse lather off your face if you think about it a little. Second, there is a lot of helpful information in old threads and the stickies. Take a quick look around and do a search first. Third, do feel free to ask questions, when you do need a little advice. Fourth, if someone by chance posts and obnoxious reply, just ignore it (this is not that likely to happen anyway).

Most importantly, for everyone. Remember, we are all supposed to be gentlemen (and occasionally ladies) here. I don't care what the tone and attitude on any other forum is like. At B&B, you treat the other guy with the same respect and courtesy you would talking face to face. But at the same time, recognize that it is an online forum, where nuance, voice tone, and body language aren't available to give meaning. So, try to be aware when something you mean as a joke could be interpreted badly (smilies do help). And, by the same token, Hobbes's advice is extremely wise: give the other guy the benefit of the doubt, and assume no insult was meant (as Hobbes pointed out, this is excellent advice in real life too).

If you really must take personal issue with something someone else typed, I strongly encourage doing the civil thing, and dealing with it privately, not in the public forums. Nothing like a PM saying, "You know, I took issue with what you said in that post. Did you really mean such and such?" There is no need to assume insult was meant, if there is any chance it was not, without first asking. And there is also no need to deal with a personal issue in the public forum.

So, good shaving, and try not to take things too seriously. :smile:

-Mo

[Must Dash]

Remember, we are all supposed to be gentlemen (and occasionally ladies) here. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Cheers


Jeremy

[moses]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

?

-Mo

[Holton181]

?

-Mo

Perhaps he's referring to the woman part of your comment because he has yet to interact with a woman on the forum? There are few and far in between, but they exist here.

[moses]

Perhaps he's referring to the woman part of your comment because he has yet to interact with a woman on the forum? There are few and far in between, but they exist here.

Ah, if that, then yes. I was being inclusive, because there are a few ladies on the forum, from time to time. To be clear, no one is ever expected to be a gentleman and a lady at the same time....

-Mo

[thirdeye]

So, good shaving, and try not to take things too seriously. :smile:

-Mo

This post was very well written. Thank you Mo!!!! :thumbup1:

[DMac]

As usual, the esteemed members of this forum have come through with sage advice.

wetshavingmonkey, this being your first internet forum, I believe that you may have inadvertently set yourself up for snarky comments when you said "I was too lazy to look up the answer to my question." You see, one of the golden rules of most of the forums I have been a part of is that one should always do a thorough search and reading of the content before just posting a question that may have already been answered. Now, you may very well have done just that and not come up with a satisfactory answer, especially considering the topic of brushes, which is very subjective to begin with. However, with the way you asked your question, it seemed to imply that you were just searching for a quick answer. Again, it might not have been the case, but it sounded like it. I have been on forums before where this approach is very common (just joining up and asking lots of questions without any searching - hideously unproductive for the forum, by the way), and it is usually handled much more rudely and aggressively. Now I don't condone any condescension in any situation, and I'm not trying to imply that you were looking for the easy answer. I only say this to help you understand the nature of the response, and what it might have looked like from another member's shoes. I believe if you had asked the exact same question, but prefaced it with "I have searched the forum and couldn't find a satisfactory answer," the responses you received would have been very different.

Also, I appreciate the Mods' and veterans' willingness to answer newbie questions time and time again. I think on the whole it makes this a much nicer place to frequent, and draws the new guys in more quickly and makes them feel like part of the club.

All that said, this is just shaving. Let's go get BBS!

[wetshavingmonkey]

As usual, the esteemed members of this forum have come through with sage advice.

wetshavingmonkey, this being your first internet forum, I believe that you may have inadvertently set yourself up for snarky comments when you said "I was too lazy to look up the answer to my question." You see, one of the golden rules of most of the forums I have been a part of is that one should always do a thorough search and reading of the content before just posting a question that may have already been answered. Now, you may very well have done just that and not come up with a satisfactory answer, especially considering the topic of brushes, which is very subjective to begin with. However, with the way you asked your question, it seemed to imply that you were just searching for a quick answer. Again, it might not have been the case, but it sounded like it. I have been on forums before where this approach is very common (just joining up and asking lots of questions without any searching - hideously unproductive for the forum, by the way), and it is usually handled much more rudely and aggressively. Now I don't condone any condescension in any situation, and I'm not trying to imply that you were looking for the easy answer. I only say this to help you understand the nature of the response, and what it might have looked like from another member's shoes. I believe if you had asked the exact same question, but prefaced it with "I have searched the forum and couldn't find a satisfactory answer," the responses you received would have been very different.

Also, I appreciate the Mods' and veterans' willingness to answer newbie questions time and time again. I think on the whole it makes this a much nicer place to frequent, and draws the new guys in more quickly and makes them feel like part of the club.

All that said, this is just shaving. Let's go get BBS!

I appreciate your comments, and something I did touch on was that we don't really know one another simply through our posts. If you knew me personally, you would see that I possess a very wicked sense of self-depreciating humor (and contrary to what others may think, it is because I have good self-esteem and am very comfortable with who I am), and that was what the "I'm too lazy" comment was about. I understand what you are saying about seeking quick answers, but one look at my posts and you will see that I have a few fairly long commentaries, and very few actual questions on shaving accoutrements -- in other words, I'm not here to "quick hit" for info. I do a lot of research before asking questions (although, sometimes I do the wrong research :bored:). In retrospect, I should have taken my own advice and placed a smiley next to the comment to covey the message that I was just joking.

[DMac]

I appreciate your comments, and something I did touch on was that we don't really know one another simply through our posts. If you knew me personally, you would see that I possess a very wicked sense of self-depreciating humor (and contrary to what others may think, it is because I have good self-esteem and am very comfortable with who I am), and that was what the "I'm too lazy" comment was about. I understand what you are saying about seeking quick answers, but one look at my posts and you will see that I have a few fairly long commentaries, and very few actual questions on shaving accoutrements -- in other words, I'm not here to "quick hit" for info. I do a lot of research before asking questions (although, sometimes I do the wrong research :bored:). In retrospect, I should have taken my own advice and placed a smiley next to the comment to covey the message that I was just joking.

I agree with you completely, and I have noticed you enough around the forum to assume both that you had done your research and your comment was in jest. But I've seen plenty of people make that exact post as their first post, and very seriously. So, I think perhaps this is why the comment was made. And I agree with you and others that the liberal use of smileys, although it seems silly at first, really does help to convey the emotions that our written responses cannot.

[Rorschuck]

<SNIP> Now, actually, I’m not too lazy to search the database (that was meant as a joke), but I was pretty specific about the brush I wanted, and I hoped a knowledgeable member would offer some sage advice -- without a condescending tone.
<SNIP>
But, if he was joking, wouldn’t it have been prudent on his part to place a smiley next to the comment? That would definitely convey the “I’m just joking” message pretty clearly. After all, isn’t that part of what the smilies are for? To add a facial expression to a comment to help avoid a misunderstanding?


See, here you *claim* you were joking when you said, "I'm too lazy", but you yourself didn't include any smileys, which you say (right after you claim you were joking) people should do... do you see the hypocrasy here?

So, it seems perfectly reasonable for someone reading your post to think you are not joking when you say, "I'm too lazy" to do something (you yourself assume - absent a smiley - no jiking in intended). Isn't it then reasonable for others to become a bit irked that you admit upfront you are lazy and want others to do the work for you, relevance of search results notwithstandind?

I have no dog in this huny, but I do think mentioning a member by name and singling him/her out for bad behavior - not as a response in that thread, but as a whole new topic of conversation - was ill-conceived and bad form.

[Rorschuck]

See, I was raised with the belief of, "If you don't have something nice to say, say nothing at all", and I adhere to that belief wholeheartedly.

Ok, I was going to put in my two-bits (above) and cut my losses, but now I feel compelled to point out that this is exactly the opposite of what your original post did. You had something not-so-nice to say (deserved or not) about another member by name, and started a new thread to do it (regardless of what your intentions were, that's what's happened).

How is this "saying nothing at all"?

Please don't get me wrong, WSM; I've enjoyed many of your recent posts, but I've seen a whole lot of hypocrasy and negativity here in this one thread. I understand feelings get hurt, but sometimes just turning the other cheek is the best course of action. While ym did make one snide remark, he did then proffer up an answer to your question; graciously accepting this and moving on could have saved everyone some heartache (hindsight, I know).

[wetshavingmonkey]

See, here you *claim* you were joking when you said, "I'm too lazy", but you yourself didn't include any smileys, which you say (right after you claim you were joking) people should do... do you see the hypocrasy here?

Umm...I do see the hypocrisy. If you look a couple of posts prior to yours, you will see that I addressed this issue.


So, it seems perfectly reasonable for someone reading your post to think you are not joking when you say, "I'm too lazy" to do something (you yourself assume - absent a smiley - no jiking in intended). Isn't it then reasonable for others to become a bit irked that you admit upfront you are lazy and want others to do the work for you, relevance of search results notwithstandind?

I have no dog in this huny, but I do think mentioning a member by name and singling him/her out for bad behavior - not as a response in that thread, but as a whole new topic of conversation - was ill-conceived and bad form.

No offense here, especially in light of what has happened, but you are joining this conversation a bit late, and it doesn't appear that you have read all of the responses. Everthing you talk about has already been addressed.

[wetshavingmonkey]

Ok, I was going to put in my two-bits (above) and cut my losses, but now I feel compelled to point out that this is exactly the opposite of what your original post did. You had something not-so-nice to say (deserved or not) about another member by name, and started a new thread to do it (regardless of what your intentions were, that's what's happened).

How is this "saying nothing at all"?

Please don't get me wrong, WSM; I've enjoyed many of your recent posts, but I've seen a whole lot of hypocrasy and negativity here in this one thread. I understand feelings get hurt, but sometimes just turning the other cheek is the best course of action. While ym did make one snide remark, he did then proffer up an answer to your question; graciously accepting this and moving on could have saved everyone some heartache (hindsight, I know).

You know, the pot has cooled down, why are you trying to get it boiling again?

[Must Dash]

Remember, we are all supposed to be gentlemen (and occasionally ladies) here

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Jeremy

Mo

Sorry, 'twas a childish attempt at humor. I'm willing to do my best to be a gentleman, but wasn't too happy with the notion of occasionally being a lady.

Cheers


Jeremy

BTW. Great piece you wrote. The voice of reason that embarrasses some of us into behaving with propriety.

[ouch]

I'm getting all misty eyed here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ


:lol::lol::lol:

[rabidpotatochip]

I'm getting all misty eyed here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ


:lol::lol::lol:

:blink: Do you have a hidden stash of videos and candid camera theme songs you save for moments like this? :blink:

[jellywerker]

He created youtube for this purpose.

[red2]

:blink: Do you have a hidden stash of videos and candid camera theme songs you save for moments like this? :blink:

That's what I'm saying!!!:ouch1::ouch1:



He created youtube for this purpose.

:lol::lol::lol:

[rabidpotatochip]

That's what I'm saying!!!:ouch1::ouch1:

Next question: Why is :ouch1: named "ouch1"?

[Must Dash]

Even the poor sods at Guantanamo Bay didn't have to suffer that level of cruel and unusual punishment. Almost dislocated my arm reaching for the mute button.


Cheers


Jeremy

[ouch]

:blink: Do you have a hidden stash of videos and candid camera theme songs you save for moments like this? :blink:

What can I say? I have a gift.

It's not much of a gift......... :tongue_sm

[rabidpotatochip]

What can I say? I have a gift.

It's not much of a gift......... :tongue_sm

You're the Macgyver of YouTube... :tongue:

[red2]

Next question: Why is :ouch1: named "ouch1"?

I believe that some list this as the appropriate disposition of a forum member towards Ouch.

I think this was covered in a recent thread entitled "Isn't this a cult, I mean, religion"?



Even the poor sods at Guantanamo Bay didn't have to suffer that level of cruel and unusual punishment. Almost dislocated my arm reaching for the mute button.


Cheers


Jeremy

Does your :ouch1: come with sound effects? If so, I am jealous.


Edit: Oh yeah, the youtube clips, duh

[ouch]

Next question: Why is :ouch1: named "ouch1"?

The smilie:

:ouch1:
is named ouch1 in recognition of my obsequious, lickspittle-like fawning towards the grand poobah of B&B, Nick.

It also distinguishes it from the similar:
http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=10766
smilie, which reenacts one of my first dates with my wife, after some particularly nasty sushi.

[red2]

What can I say? I have a gift.

It's not much of a gift......... :tongue_sm

Its one of the reasons I keep coming back here.

This was one of my favorites

http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=434169#post434169

[cr8n]

Mo

Sorry, 'twas a childish attempt at humor. I'm willing to do my best to be a gentleman, but wasn't too happy with the notion of occasionally being a lady.

Cheers


Jeremy

BTW. Great piece you wrote. The voice of reason that embarrasses some of us into behaving with propriety.

Jeremy's concern was well put. He does indeed make a poor lady. Although, maybe it's lack of practice? Who knows?

[moses]

http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=10766
smilie, which reenacts one of my first dates with my wife, after some particularly nasty sushi.

The question is, which of you is which.....

[moses]

Jeremy's concern was well put. He does indeed make a poor lady. Although, maybe it's lack of practice? Who knows?

They do say practice makes perfect....

-Mo

[momo360]

Most importantly, for everyone. Remember, we are all supposed to be gentlemen (and occasionally ladies) here.

Bah! Admit it, you were thinking of Nicole! ... I mean Nick :tongue_sm

[Must Dash]

Its one of the reasons I keep coming back here.

This was one of my favorites

http://www.badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=434169#post434169


That it explains it. You're impressed by a man who can make farting noises with his hands. :biggrin:

Cheers


Jeremy

(And thanks Paul.)

[prewt]

Wow, I feel violated. can I get my 3 minutes back?

[Mr. Gillette]

As usual, the esteemed members of this forum have come through with sage advice.

wetshavingmonkey, this being your first internet forum, I believe that you may have inadvertently set yourself up for snarky comments when you said "I was too lazy to look up the answer to my question." You see, one of the golden rules of most of the forums I have been a part of is that one should always do a thorough search and reading of the content before just posting a question that may have already been answered. Now, you may very well have done just that and not come up with a satisfactory answer, especially considering the topic of brushes, which is very subjective to begin with. However, with the way you asked your question, it seemed to imply that you were just searching for a quick answer. Again, it might not have been the case, but it sounded like it. I have been on forums before where this approach is very common (just joining up and asking lots of questions without any searching - hideously unproductive for the forum, by the way), and it is usually handled much more rudely and aggressively. Now I don't condone any condescension in any situation, and I'm not trying to imply that you were looking for the easy answer. I only say this to help you understand the nature of the response, and what it might have looked like from another member's shoes. I believe if you had asked the exact same question, but prefaced it with "I have searched the forum and couldn't find a satisfactory answer," the responses you received would have been very different.

Also, I appreciate the Mods' and veterans' willingness to answer newbie questions time and time again. I think on the whole it makes this a much nicer place to frequent, and draws the new guys in more quickly and makes them feel like part of the club.

All that said, this is just shaving. Let's go get BBS!

I'll give a somewhat reserved +1 on that-- a lot of information crosses on a daily basis, and to some folks a question, seemingly out of left field, that has already been asked and answered is akin to a small child tugging at his busy mom's sleeve.

But Moses (as always) hit it on the head-- politeness. There are polite ways to ask, and there are polite ways to answer. Perhaps this didn't happen.

Approaching the question like "Maybe I'm too lazy" isn't a great entree into the forum. Maybe "I know this probably has come up before, but I couldn't find it..." is a nice opener, and more than likely, someone will point you to the right place.

For now, let's put that in the past and let's move forward. This is a very friendly place, inhabited by ladies and gentlemen of BOTH genders...and I feel fortunate to be here.

[Dr. Mike]

I have certainly been irked by others on this forum, and have no doubt done my fair share of ticking others off (I think you'll find a large percentage of my posts tend to land here in the Barber Shop - I can't help it, I'm a political junkie!). There are a few things I've done to cool off. First of all, if somebody really annoys you, you can always put them on your ignore list. It is a handy little feature. If the posts of a certain individual continue to annoy you, ignore them, and then you won't see their posts unless you choose to. This has helped me to cool off in the past (I won't say who I have added to that list), and eventually everybody I have added to the list has then been removed once I have had time to cool off.
Also, quit looking. I am very guilty of always wanting to have the last word on a subject. Don't do it. Let it die. If somebody is repetitively offensive, and everybody just ignores them, they'll get the hint.
Finally, don't worry about it. Look at how many people are on this forum. Do you know that many people in your life that you get along great with? Some you'll like. Some you would probably not give the time of day should you meet them in the real world. Just like we all don't probably go around and complain about everybody who has annoyed us in our daily lives, we don't need to do it here. That is the beauty of this. If you don't like someone because of something they said, it is even easier than in real life to just ignore them.

[Prince]

I have certainly been irked by others on this forum, and have no doubt done my fair share of ticking others off (I think you'll find a large percentage of my posts tend to land here in the Barber Shop - I can't help it, I'm a political junkie!). There are a few things I've done to cool off. First of all, if somebody really annoys you, you can always put them on your ignore list. It is a handy little feature. If the posts of a certain individual continue to annoy you, ignore them, and then you won't see their posts unless you choose to. This has helped me to cool off in the past (I won't say who I have added to that list), and eventually everybody I have added to the list has then been removed once I have had time to cool off.
Also, quit looking. I am very guilty of always wanting to have the last word on a subject. Don't do it. Let it die. If somebody is repetitively offensive, and everybody just ignores them, they'll get the hint.
Finally, don't worry about it. Look at how many people are on this forum. Do you know that many people in your life that you get along great with? Some you'll like. Some you would probably not give the time of day should you meet them in the real world. Just like we all don't probably go around and complain about everybody who has annoyed us in our daily lives, we don't need to do it here. That is the beauty of this. If you don't like someone because of something they said, it is even easier than in real life to just ignore them.


:a30: I know what you mean. I am usually the one that irritates people.

Sometimes I'm not aware I did anything.

[rabidpotatochip]

:a30: I know what you mean. I am usually the one that irritates people.

Sometimes I'm not aware I did anything.

:lol: That is the best emoticon I've ever seen. It speaks volumes about my wife while I'm trying to shave. :biggrin:

Edit: In case she's reading this... I still love you dear.

[Mr. Gillette]

I did that to SWMBO a couple of nights ago. BOY! Is that sofa ever uncomfortable!!!!:blushing:

[mulepackin]

I have my own philosophy for internet forums:

1) The golden rule - Treat others as you would like to be treated.
2) If I don't have anything useful to contribute (obviously, this is subjective) I
don't.
3) If I find someone offensive, I ignore them.
4) If I see a basic question get asked that has been asked repeatedly, I either
ignore it, or politely point out that it has been asked repeatedly, and a search
will reveal a wealth of useful information on the topic, and try to summarize
that
info. if possible. This usually doesn't take any more time than a scathing
rebuke would.
5) Abide by the rules of the moderators. It's their forum, I'm a guest.

[ouch]

Hey Dr. Mike, I have a quick question.

[Thomas]

In one of my very early posts, I got some harsh responses from one particular member, and I reconsidered my participation. I found out months later in passing that this member who took particular exception to my comments had been having a rough time of things, likely for quite a while. I still don't pay him much mind, but at least I know he's not always quite so prickly.

That said, I've put responses out there in the past that I've re-read down the line and thought I could have put things SO much better. So when I read a post that comes off poorly, I chalk it up to a quick trigger finger.

[Dr. Mike]

Hey Dr. Mike, I have a quick question.

What's the question?

[ouch]

What's the question?

Cool. Guess it's not me. :lol:


I have certainly been irked by others on this forum......... There are a few things I've done to cool off. First of all, if somebody really annoys you, you can always put them on your ignore list. It is a handy little feature. If the posts of a certain individual continue to annoy you, ignore them, and then you won't see their posts unless you choose to. This has helped me to cool off in the past (I won't say who I have added to that list),

[Dr. Mike]

I suspected you might have been fishing to see if you are on the list. There is nobody currently on the list.
Can anybody see who is on a person's ignore list, or is that confidential? For example, if they send you a PM, and they are on your ignore list, do they get it returned?

[ouch]

Who knows what godlike powers the mods possess. I sure don't.

[rabidpotatochip]

Who knows what godlike powers the mods possess. I sure don't.

Meat-vision I'd imagine.

[v-g]

It's great to see people getting so involved when things like this comes up in forums (or is it fora?)

I want to say something too. Being an alien, I often must struggle with the language too, not just the lack of tone and facial expressions. Sometimes I just don't get things. These things often don't need to be posted anyway, but makes the forum much more fun. A little spice, if you will.

My point is, it sure would be best to leave out anything that's not necessary when one posts (sarcasm/irony/humor etc), but unfortunately, that won't work. We're people, I'm afraid.

[red2]

Meat-vision I'd imagine.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol:

[rabidpotatochip]

It's great to see people getting so involved when things like this comes up in forums (or is it fora?)

I want to say something too. Being an alien, I often must struggle with the language too, not just the lack of tone and facial expressions. Sometimes I just don't get things. These things often don't need to be posted anyway, but makes the forum much more fun. A little spice, if you will.

My point is, it sure would be best to leave out anything that's not necessary when one posts (sarcasm/irony/humor etc), but unfortunately, that won't work. We're people, I'm afraid.

Ouch would only have three posts then. :wink:

[v-g]

Ouch would only have three posts then. :wink:Ouch!

[LukeInFlames]

Rules-wise this place is pretty strict.

There was a "Favorite pipe thread" in the speakeasy. I post a picture of a glass crack pipe.

They deleted it like it was offensive or something.:frown:

BAHAHAHA! That sounds like something I should have thought of!

Cheers!

-L.

[Prince]

Ouch would only have three posts then. :wink:

And you wonder why the mods gave you a custom title. :lol:

That's why I try to stay under the radar.

[rabidpotatochip]

And you wonder why the mods gave you a custom title. :lol:

That's why I try to stay under the radar.

:lol: I think you're on to something there...

I've been told that not only do I ask for trouble, but I slap it in the face when it shows up. :biggrin:

[ouch]

Mmmmmmm. Meat vision..........

[thirdeye]

Mmmmmmm. Meat vision..........

Go get'em Ouch!!!!! :lol: