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Lynchmeister
01-09-2008, 03:30 PM
Hey guys-

I know...another thread on Linux, but I don't want to hijack the current threads and divert the attention from others' questions in their own threads, so here goes...

All of the Linux discussions here have caught my interest and after posting this, I'm going to download and burn the Linux Mint live CD to play around with on my laptop to see if this is something I want to persue further.

At this point, I don't have any questions as I haven't done anything yet, but I wanted to start the thread for when I do have questions and also to plant the seeds your heads in case you have some Linux Mint experience (or Ubuntu as Mint is based of the Ubuntu distro) and want throw your $0.02 in.

Thanks, and wish me luck!

moses
01-09-2008, 03:34 PM
I have a question.

What is?

-Mo

analog_kid
01-09-2008, 04:00 PM
PHLAK. Rispekt.

bjrn
01-09-2008, 04:02 PM
Good luck!

Lynchmeister
01-09-2008, 04:03 PM
PHLAK. Rispekt.


I have a question.

What is?

-Mo

Ok...:out: :rolleyes1 :001_tt2:

Phog Allen
01-09-2008, 05:51 PM
Hi Cory. Glad you resurrected the Linux discussion. I did not want to bump my own rambling post about it. I too have the Linuxmint distro on live CD. Now remember, I am NOT very pc savvy. So take what I say with a grain of salt. I liked it from the minute I ran it. I have not spent hour upon hour using it but it grabbed my internet connection from Windows just like that and away I went. The included media players whipped up the music from factory CDs with no glitches either. I have not tried any that were burned at home. What I really liked about the mint distro is the menu. Yeah, I know, that hardly makes an OS. I just mean that the initial experience trying to find things was real easy. When you open the main menu, the different applications and tools were grouped under different headers. Controls, applications, etc. all had their own header in the lists that made it easy to navigate through the stuff. I had mentioned that the thing about these Linux distros that blew me away was the manner in which you get applications. You open this neat little download manager. I think it is called apt-get. You search a HUGE database for different applications and press install. I think about 99.9% of it is free. It will grab any necessary dependencies at the same time if they are required to make the app run correctly. This is so much better than anything I have dealt with in Windows. Other than freeware you get from certain sites, everything else in Windows usually involves plunking down your dough and THEN deciding if the non-returnable software you just payed $39 for is worth keeping. I know you can get trial versions of many applications but they are usually gutted. I now realise why I have been gravitating toward stuff like AVG anti virus, ffdshow, ffmpeg, Monkey's Audio, LAME, and others. It is not that they are free though that is a major consideration. It is that usually the guys who write them are as tired of the malware, adware, bloat, and costs as we are. They make lightweight packages that do what you want and not a whole lot more. Or less. One that I find invaluable is Media Player Classic. I think it works under Linux but I am not sure.

I am sorry to gab on about this stuff but just like when we all first "discovered" great shaving, this Linux stuff is like a breath of fresh air. Do not get me wrong. I don't hate windows and in fact, my copy of XP Media Center Edition has been about 99% trouble free. I just like the idea of entrepreneurs building up OS's that are low cost or free/share ware that work and are reliable. While I don't have Linuxmint installed for dual boot(yet) I am seriously considering it. I for one hope Linux gives Windows real stiff competition in the future. Just because choice is good and there should be something out there that leaves you real options. BTW, though it is usually looked upon as geeky(What? Any of us being called geeks? Unheard of.) I really am interested in learning more of the command line. Recent experience with stuff like ffmpeg made me realise how lightweight, powerful, and FAST applications are that do not have a GUI front end. Yeah, the command structure is bewildering to say the least but like many things, you can do 95% of what you want with 10% of the commands. At least it seemed so to me. Anyroad, good post and sorry for rambling on so much.

Regards, Todd

Lynchmeister
01-09-2008, 06:02 PM
Todd, thanks for the post! It was very encouraging. I'm still burning the LiveCD...grrr...just a bit impatient. :biggrin:

texasPI
01-09-2008, 06:14 PM
Hey Cory, so which version will you be using? I think I want to try it out too!:biggrin:

Lynchmeister
01-09-2008, 07:11 PM
Hey Cory, so which version will you be using? I think I want to try it out too!:biggrin:

Hi Erik, I downloaded and burned a live cd of Bianca 2.2, which I found out about from this article: http://linuxgazette.net/136/lazar.html

So far so good, but I'm still working on getting my wireless connection. Before I get to the hair pulling stage, I should ask. Is is possible to set up wireless (or internet for that matter) off of the live cd? I realize that all progress will be lost, but I want to cut my teeth on the live cd before installing and touching my hard disk.

Thanks!

liege
01-09-2008, 07:15 PM
When I used my Ubuntu and then the Mandriva live cd it hooked up the internet. I am wired, though, not wireless.

gugi
01-09-2008, 07:22 PM
Todd,

I'd put few comments in your post, which you guys may find useful


I have not spent hour upon hour using it but it grabbed my internet connection from Windows just like that and away I went.

When you run it off CD (as opposed from inside an emulator, like vmware) is a separate OS and doesn't touch windows. What's happening is that linux automatically discovered and configured the internet connection (either cable, or wireless, not sure what you have). So yeah, that's what it should be and just shows that few linux distros have become very user friendly in the last year or two :)

The included media players whipped up the music from factory CDs with no glitches either. I have not tried any that were burned at home.


There's no difference in the audio format between commercial and home-burned CDs. The music is recorded in a very standard way ('red book') so any CD should play. It's the same thing as playing them on any CDplayer you buy in the store. DVD is different, because there is an encryption involved and that part has not been made public. However unencrypted DVD's are just like CDs and play just fine.

What I really liked about the mint distro is the menu. Yeah, I know, that hardly makes an OS.
Actually the user interface is one of the most important things in usability. That's why Apple has been always considered much easier - the user interface is more intuitive and simpler than the competition. Linux has never been very strong on UI, but recently it has improved a lot. Although every distribution decides on its own way to organize stuff, so it's not uniform across the board. I am surprised why microsoft has not improved theirs for so many years, I guess its a legacy thing - once you learn something that's hard, learning something that may be easier is still more learning. All it matters is that you like it, though.

I had mentioned that the thing about these Linux distros that blew me away was the manner in which you get applications. You open this neat little download manager. I think it is called apt-get. You search a HUGE database for different applications and press install. I think about 99.9% of it is free.
Enter the magic of debian's package manager :) I believe debian has almost 20,000 packages that know about each other's dependencies. Most debian based distros choose a smaller subset that's easier to maintain. And since they are governed by the same license it's very easy to have the whole process happen automatically. I don't know if apt-get is what you're using as it's a command line utility, but most distros write a GUI on top of apt-get so that you can do all by point&click.


BTW, though it is usually looked upon as geeky(What? Any of us being called geeks? Unheard of.) I really am interested in learning more of the command line. Recent experience with stuff like ffmpeg made me realise how lightweight, powerful, and FAST applications are that do not have a GUI front end. Yeah, the command structure is bewildering to say the least but like many things, you can do 95% of what you want with 10% of the commands.

I think the geeky rap comes from the bad user interfaces. *nix world had graphical user interface way before windows, and it was/is much nicer, but the *nix OS were very expensive (10,000USD) and windows was cheap ($100). Also command line is still the fastest way to do anything, but you do need to be in that mind set. To me the difference between command line and GUI is like sign language and spoken/written language. If you go to a foreign country that you don't speak the language, you can probably survive by making signs and the learning curve to these isn't much, but if you want to communicate effectively you've got to use the local language. When do work and not just playing around, I very rarely use the mouse.

gugi
01-09-2008, 07:27 PM
So far so good, but I'm still working on getting my wireless connection. Before I get to the hair pulling stage, I should ask. Is is possible to set up wireless (or internet for that matter) off of the live cd? I realize that all progress will be lost, but I want to cut my teeth on the live cd before installing and touching my hard disk.


Absolutely - configuring the wireless should work from the CD as well. I haven't used linuxmint, so I don't know what's the network configuration tool.
However once you find it it should be straightforward.
If you give is some details of how far you are may be somebody will be able to help.
If you see your wireless network, but cannot connect to it, it may be an issue with the encryption that you're using.
It is also possible that your wireless adapter does not have linux support (the company that made it hasn't released neither linux driver, nor enough info for somebody else to write such driver). If you know what brand/model is your adapter you can look this up, or somebody here can tell you.

rabidpotatochip
01-09-2008, 07:36 PM
I just looked at Linux Mint a few minutes ago; from the screenshots I have to say it looks very... pretty.

Regarding the wireless support: http://linux-wless.passys.nl/index.php

To give you an idea, the complete listing will take about 2 minutes to load; it's a massive (and I mean massive) table. Anyway, this list gets updated regularly and I find it's really been beneficial. Hope you or someone else also gets good use out of it.

Phog Allen
01-09-2008, 07:40 PM
Todd,

I'd put few comments in your post, which you guys may find useful

Thanks Gugi. Great explanations. BTW, I am a cable modem customer behind a router. No problemo at. Popped the Firefox icon in mint and it loaded up straight away.

Regards, Todd

apex.predator
01-09-2008, 09:55 PM
Hi Erik, I downloaded and burned a live cd of Bianca 2.2, which I found out about from this article: http://linuxgazette.net/136/lazar.html

So far so good, but I'm still working on getting my wireless connection. Before I get to the hair pulling stage, I should ask. Is is possible to set up wireless (or internet for that matter) off of the live cd? I realize that all progress will be lost, but I want to cut my teeth on the live cd before installing and touching my hard disk.

Thanks!

Is there a special reason you want an older version? Bianca, v 2.2 is not the latest.

If you have any trouble, you should download version 4.0. It's the latest. Bianca is version 2.2 and was released last February. The review you read was probably written then.

For sure, the latest version will be better at hardware recognition. IIRC, also, the early versions of Mint weren't so good at installation of new software. Look here (http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php) under version 4.0, at the top.

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 05:54 AM
Is there a special reason you want an older version? Bianca, v 2.2 is not the latest.

If you have any trouble, you should download version 4.0. It's the latest. Bianca is version 2.2 and was released last February. The review you read was probably written then.

For sure, the latest version will be better at hardware recognition. IIRC, also, the early versions of Mint weren't so good at installation of new software. Look here (http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php) under version 4.0, at the top.

Exactly. After looking around, I did see several newer releases, but burned Binanca simply because that is what the article was written about. When it comes to the unknown, I like to have stuff like this spoonfed to me to minimize problems. After having done some looking around on the live cd and thinking about what I've taken in, I have decided to burn a cd of the newest release and go from there.

Last night I was not able to get my wireless connection established and still don't know why not. I'm using a LinkSys wireless router and card.

Rabid, I'm off to look at your link now.

Thanks for the help guys.

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 05:58 AM
I just looked at Linux Mint a few minutes ago; from the screenshots I have to say it looks very... pretty.

Regarding the wireless support: http://linux-wless.passys.nl/index.php

To give you an idea, the complete listing will take about 2 minutes to load; it's a massive (and I mean massive) table. Anyway, this list gets updated regularly and I find it's really been beneficial. Hope you or someone else also gets good use out of it.

Just looked at this and discovered that I need the product ID for my wireless equipment (at work now, so...). Thanks again for the link, I think it will be helpful.

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 06:55 AM
Is it safe to assume that since LinuxMint didn't automatically find my wireless device from the live cd, it won't find it on a real install?

Todd, did you experiment with a live cd first? And if so, do you recall any problems/successes with your wireless connection?

I'm away from my PC and can't do anything but read and research, so of course this is driving me nuts. :rolleyes:

biomesh
01-10-2008, 07:11 AM
Is it safe to assume that since LinuxMint didn't automatically find my wireless device from the live cd, it won't find it on a real install?


This depends on a few factors:

- The wireless card
- The linux distribution used
- The kernel version used in said linux distribution

Some wireless cards do not have official linux drivers for them since the hardware manufacturers do not release specs on the hardware for linux drivers to be written. When this happens, you have to rely on windows based drivers with a wrapper program that interprets the driver api function (ndiswrapper).

If you ever get a choice for a wireless card or nic, I would stick with intel and avoid broadcom chipsets. Some broadcom chipsets will work okay, but intel has great support under Linux. There are other vendors as well that have really good or poor support.

If you have new(er) hardware, that is where the newer distributions/kernel versions apply, as they will support the newer hardware.

rabidpotatochip
01-10-2008, 07:39 AM
Is it safe to assume that since LinuxMint didn't automatically find my wireless device from the live cd, it won't find it on a real install?

I'd say it's a safe assumption. Usually anything that's not auto-detected on the live CD won't be auto-detected in an install either. Back in the day I even had rare cases of things working on the live CD but not the install. Fear not, though, as biomesh mentioned you can probably use ndiswrapper to make it work. There are some great tutorials on it out there but they're on my home computer and I don't have time to harass Google for an answer.

Once you do get a chance to look at your adapter try punching it into Google with the words "Linux" and "solved" and you should be able to get a definitive answer as to whether it can or can't work, probably in the first page of results even. If you don't get anything take "solved" out of your query and pray you still get good news. :wink:

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 09:34 AM
I'd say it's a safe assumption. Usually anything that's not auto-detected on the live CD won't be auto-detected in an install either. Back in the day I even had rare cases of things working on the live CD but not the install. Fear not, though, as biomesh mentioned you can probably use ndiswrapper to make it work. There are some great tutorials on it out there but they're on my home computer and I don't have time to harass Google for an answer.

Once you do get a chance to look at your adapter try punching it into Google with the words "Linux" and "solved" and you should be able to get a definitive answer as to whether it can or can't work, probably in the first page of results even. If you don't get anything take "solved" out of your query and pray you still get good news. :wink:

:biggrin:

There's something about this element of uncertainty that is drawing me towards it like a moth to the flame, which is totally out of character for me. It's cool, though, because for the first time I'm actually interested in getting my hands a *little* bit dirty in an effort to learn more about my computer and gain more control over it.

I think my next plan of attack is to burn a live cd of the 4.0 (can't remember which wierd women's name is attached to it. What's the deal with that?). I'm thinking maybe the latest version will accommadate my wireless, but if not, I'll continue to ask questions and search the net for clues.

I've read an awful lot about ndiswrapper and am curious how to run it if need be. It seems that all of the linux forums I've browsed (even the newbie areas) assume the end user to have some basic knowledge, which of course I have none of. They simply say "use ndiswrapper" or "run ndiswrapper" which leaves me asking, "how?"

apex.predator
01-10-2008, 09:46 AM
..(can't remember which wierd women's name is attached to it. What's the deal with that?). I'm thinking maybe the latest version will accommadate my wireless, but if not, I'll continue to ask questions and search the net for clues.

It's a strange convention, giving releases a name. MS and Mac do it, too. I think it used to show that you were an insider, in the know. Now it's just cheesy. I prefer the version numbers.

rabidpotatochip
01-10-2008, 10:03 AM
It's a strange convention, giving releases a name. MS and Mac do it, too. I think it used to show that you were an insider, in the know. Now it's just cheesy. I prefer the version numbers.

Pfft... you're just jealous of my Gutsy Gibbon. :tongue:

analog_kid
01-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Ok...:out: :rolleyes1 :001_tt2:


PHLAK was an old bootable Linux distro that I used to wreak havoc on many o public domains. I mean...nevermind.


ProfessionalHackersLinuxAssaultKit :tank:

rabidpotatochip
01-10-2008, 10:19 AM
PHLAK was an old bootable Linux distro that I used to wreak havoc on many o public domains. I mean...nevermind.


ProfessionalHackersLinuxAssaultKit :tank:

BackTrack (http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html) FTW. Been messing with it since it was just Auditor.

analog_kid
01-10-2008, 10:23 AM
BackTrack (http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html) FTW. Been messing with it since it was just Auditor.



That looks like something you could have some "fun" with.

rabidpotatochip
01-10-2008, 10:34 AM
That looks like something you could have some "fun" with.

Well, before I dig myself a hole I don't do any black hat stuff. Occasionally grey, but 95% of the time my hat is white. :wink:

I have broken into some networks with permission, mostly on bets. Mostly I mess around with my own wifi network (ssid is hackerbait if you're ever in the neighborhood) since it's currently not illegal to break into your own network.

I don't consider myself a hacker by any stretch, just an extreme enthusiast. :biggrin:

apex.predator
01-10-2008, 10:43 AM
Pfft... you're just jealous of my Gutsy Gibbon. :tongue:

Ha! Really, I like the way Pat Volkerding runs Slackware. He doesn't give his releases names at all.

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 10:55 AM
Well, before I dig myself a hole I don't do any black hat stuff. Occasionally grey, but 95% of the time my hat is white. :wink:

I have broken into some networks with permission, mostly on bets. Mostly I mess around with my own wifi network (ssid is hackerbait if you're ever in the neighborhood) since it's currently not illegal to break into your own network.

I don't consider myself a hacker by any stretch, just an extreme enthusiast. :biggrin:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Phog Allen
01-10-2008, 11:27 AM
Hi Cory. I burned version 4.0. While my router is wireless capable, it also has the regular ethernet "RJ45" jacks(they are truly 8 pin ethernet ports wired to either T568A or T568B specs. Old time telco guys will bag on you for calling these ports "RJ45") on the back as well. That is how I connected my pc. I did not have a wireless card in my pc and it also allowed me to shut off the wireless functions for security reasons. I am not using that part so it does not need to be on. The mint grabbed right onto it and worked just fine. The wifey is wanting a laptop so the wireless function will need to work. I may test the liveCD in that machine. If it becomes a reality. BTW, I have not installed the distro on my hard drive yet. i am waiting to make sure it is something I really want to do. So far, my excursion has been favourable.

Regards,Todd

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 11:40 AM
Hi Cory. I burned version 4.0. While my router is wireless capable, it also has the regular ethernet "RJ45" jacks(they are truly 8 pin ethernet ports wired to either T568A or T568B specs. Old time telco guys will bag on you for calling these ports "RJ45") on the back as well. That is how I connected my pc. I did not have a wireless card in my pc and it also allowed me to shut off the wireless functions for security reasons. I am not using that part so it does not need to be on. The mint grabbed right onto it and worked just fine. The wifey is wanting a laptop so the wireless function will need to work. I may test the liveCD in that machine. If it becomes a reality. BTW, I have not installed the distro on my hard drive yet. i am waiting to make sure it is something I really want to do. So far, my excursion has been favourable.

Regards,Todd

Thanks for the info. I made the false assumption that you had installed on a laptop with a wireless card and everything worked like magic. :wink: This reinforces my plans to burn 4.0 and then get everything working (wireless and all) before going further with a hard disk install.

rabidpotatochip
01-10-2008, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the info. I made the false assumption that you had installed on a laptop with a wireless card and everything worked like magic. :wink: This reinforces my plans to burn 4.0 and then get everything working (wireless and all) before going further with a hard disk install.

If you have a second computer you can bring along for the ride you can be installing on one and reading documentation/pretending to work on the other. This is also where two monitors come in handy if you have a lot of stuff open all the time.

Someday... I'll have that second monitor... :001_wub:

Lynchmeister
01-10-2008, 01:24 PM
If you have a second computer you can bring along for the ride you can be installing on one and reading documentation/pretending to work on the other. This is also where two monitors come in handy if you have a lot of stuff open all the time.

Someday... I'll have that second monitor... :001_wub:

Good tip. I'm looking to put Mint on the laptop and leave the desktop alone for now. Had I not been multi-tasking (read: working on two computers and *cough* watching Deal or No Deal *cough*), I would have brought the laptop to the desktop...instead of running from room to room. :rolleyes:

gugi
01-10-2008, 04:15 PM
Someday... I'll have that second monitor... :001_wub:
how about a kvm switch meanwhile? they are pretty cheap, but monitors aren't what they used to be either.
i've had this 20" samsung lcd for a year and i don't really want another one. i can only do so many things at the same time, and i've been pretty happy with multiple (virtual) desktops.

rabidpotatochip
01-10-2008, 04:24 PM
how about a kvm switch meanwhile? they are pretty cheap, but monitors aren't what they used to be either.
i've had this 20" samsung lcd for a year and i don't really want another one. i can only do so many things at the same time, and i've been pretty happy with multiple (virtual) desktops.

I kind of like to go all or nothing. As for dual-display versus virtual desktops, a good chunk of my job involves creating reports and doing research. I end up with so many windows open I lose track of where anything is; I figure if I could actually keep more up on screen it would solve a few problems. The testing phase will just be borrowing the monitor from my work system. Call it a job perk. :biggrin:

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 01:59 PM
Hey guys,

I'm finally able to get back to this project and in another thread, was given the following advice from Richard:


Corey,

Just be aware... install Linux LAST in a dual boot set up. If you don't, windows will clobber your linux install. If you do linux last, linux will recognize the win install and adjust (and set up) accordingly.

Good luck!
Richard

I PM'd him, but in the meantime, I figured I'd ask here as well. I currently have XP installed, so would that qualify as installing Linux last? Thanks!

moses
01-13-2008, 02:03 PM
I PM'd him, but in the meantime, I figured I'd ask here as well. I currently have XP installed, so would that qualify as installing Linux last? Thanks!

Yes. You have windows installed, so you are good to go ahead with installing Linux.

You can do it the other way around, I understand, but a pain.

-Mo

Evil One
01-13-2008, 02:04 PM
I unstalled Ubuntu 7.4 and had issues with the wireless on my laptop, I upgraded to 7.10 and it found my wireless right away.


Jim

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Yes. You have windows installed, so you are good to go ahead with installing Linux.

You can do it the other way around, I understand, but a pain.

-Mo

Thank you for the quick response, Mo. It is appreciated.

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 03:06 PM
Another question -

What exactly does dual booting mean? In other words, every time I boot my computer, will I be given the option to use Windows or Linux? And Linux will be able to access files and programs from Windows?

Still working on cleaning up and backing up my crucial data onto external media...

Thanks!

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 05:04 PM
Ok, rebooted with the new live cd and had a few problems. It got to the main screen ok and I selected Start Linux Mint. From there, the screen went black followed by some scrolling white text. I did make something out about a microcode load problem. Does this sound like a problem with the disk? I tried it a second time with the same issues. From this point, I'm thinking I should try to burn another cd from a different source. Any suggestions?

Phog Allen
01-13-2008, 06:00 PM
Hi Cory. I found this information about installing dual boots interesting. Partitions (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/partitioning) and FSdrive (http://www.fs-driver.org/) When I finally get around to installing a dual boot linux distribution on my Dell, I will likely use some combination of these partitioning schemes. BTW, does anyone know if there is anything in these proprietary OEM installs from Dell and the like that creates errors when re-partitioning for a dual boot? BTW, I wish I could help you with some answer about the liveCD problem but you are talking to Mr. clueless.

Regards, Todd

gugi
01-13-2008, 06:51 PM
What exactly does dual booting mean? In other words, every time I boot my computer, will I be given the option to use Windows or Linux? And Linux will be able to access files and programs from Windows?

yes Linux will write a new boot manager on the harddrive which will give you a choice of windows or linux. To access the linux partition from windows you'll need something like fsdrive - see Phog Allen's post (and there was a recent thread on that). But you can't just run the windows programs from linux and vice versa - you'll be able to only see (and possibly modify your files).

It's important to install linux after windows, because windows doesn't like to acknowledge anything but itself, so it's generally much harder (not impossible) to make this menu selection, which linux creates as a last step.


Ok, rebooted with the new live cd and had a few problems. It got to the main screen ok and I selected Start Linux Mint. From there, the screen went black followed by some scrolling white text. I did make something out about a microcode load problem. Does this sound like a problem with the disk?
not sure, could be a problem with the disk, but may be something else, like incompatible linux OS. When I looked at the LinuxMint dl page it wasn't clear which version was for what processors (or at least it wasn't as shouting clear as it should be). Let us know what you've downloaded and what processor do you have.



BTW, does anyone know if there is anything in these proprietary OEM installs from Dell and the like that creates errors when re-partitioning for a dual boot?
Not sure what you mean. As far as I remember from my thinkpads' install CDs there was no option to install on a specific partition. The only option is to essentially restore the whole harddrive to the factory status (several hidden partitions from which you can reinstall later and one main partition). Any partitioning scheme you may have set before that gets erased (if i'm correct).

rabidpotatochip
01-13-2008, 06:54 PM
I haven't found anything about the microcode problem you mentioned, or at least anything useful... I'm willing to go so far as to say that it likely isn't a problem with the disc, though. It could be that it ran into some trouble with some of your hardware. Next time it puts out that information hit Pause|Break and write it down. Then punch it into Google and see if anyone shares the problem.

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 07:05 PM
Thanks for the tips, guys. I downloaded the "bad" disk from http://www.linuxmint.com/mirrors.php?id=15

It was HEAnet one...I think. I guess I didn't realize they were different.

rabidpotatochip
01-13-2008, 07:10 PM
Welcome to the world of Linux. :tongue:

You don't even want to know the flaming hoops I'm jumping through to get the wireless adapter I got for my birthday to work...

gugi
01-13-2008, 07:17 PM
hmm, all the mirrors should give you exactly the same thing and it seems you got the 'main one' judging from the size 688MB in your link

I am really confused - I thought ALPHA may refer to ALPHA processors, but I guess I'm wrong, these all seem to be for x86 processors and Alpha/Beta refers to the stages of development of the distribution. ARGHHHH

I'd say at this point get Ubuntu 7.10 as being more friendly and better supported, so that you'll get an idea about linux. It seems just asking for trouble starting with a distro that has problems installing on your computer. Not that they can't be solved in principle, but you don't want that steep of a curve when starting.

gugi
01-13-2008, 07:24 PM
also, I'm not sure how you can check the md5 sum of the iso image you downloaded when you're on windows, but you can verify that that image is correct by comparing the md5 sum to the one that's on the webpage:
572a56ec165ef6ad8f785cc7f13a5a14
if that's correct, then the culprit is either the burning process (very unlikely) or the actual CD (99% likely).
The thing is that you were able to run the older version, so the LinuxMint people have certainly messed up something when compiling the linux kernel for the Daryna CD. Sounds like me LinuxMint isn't quite ready for prime time yet.

rabidpotatochip
01-13-2008, 07:28 PM
also, I'm not sure how you can check the md5 sum of the iso image you downloaded when you're on windows, but you can verify that that image is correct by comparing the md5 sum to the one that's on the webpage:
572a56ec165ef6ad8f785cc7f13a5a14
if that's correct, then the culprit is either the burning process (very unlikely) or the actual CD (99% likely).
The thing is that you were able to run the older version, so the LinuxMint people have certainly messed up something when compiling the linux kernel for the Daryna CD. Sounds like me LinuxMint isn't quite ready for prime time yet.

Hashtab (http://www.beeblebrox.org/hashtab/). Right-click on the downloaded file, go to Properties, click the "File Hashes" tab and paste it in. It'll let you know if there's a problem. Great if you download a lot of large files.

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 07:31 PM
hmm, all the mirrors should give you exactly the same thing and it seems you got the 'main one' judging from the size 688MB in your link

I am really confused - I thought ALPHA may refer to ALPHA processors, but I guess I'm wrong, these all seem to be for x86 processors and Alpha/Beta refers to the stages of development of the distribution. ARGHHHH

I'd say at this point get Ubuntu 7.10 as being more friendly and better supported, so that you'll get an idea about linux. It seems just asking for trouble starting with a distro that has problems installing on your computer. Not that they can't be solved in principle, but you don't want that steep of a curve when starting.


also, I'm not sure how you can check the md5 sum of the iso image you downloaded when you're on windows, but you can verify that that image is correct by comparing the md5 sum to the one that's on the webpage:
572a56ec165ef6ad8f785cc7f13a5a14
if that's correct, then the culprit is either the burning process (very unlikely) or the actual CD (99% likely).
The thing is that you were able to run the older version, so the LinuxMint people have certainly messed up something when compiling the linux kernel for the Daryna CD. Sounds like me LinuxMint isn't quite ready for prime time yet.


Interesting ideas...I'm seriously going to consider Ubuntu. Would you call Ubuntu fairly user friendly for absolute beginners? My wife's patience is running thin tonight, so I think I'm going to call 'er quits for right now and pick it up again tomorrow. I will also take a look at the md5 sum tomorrow to see what the deal is there.

Appreciate your help.

Lynchmeister
01-13-2008, 07:32 PM
Welcome to the world of Linux. :tongue:

You don't even want to know the flaming hoops I'm jumping through to get the wireless adapter I got for my birthday to work...

Thanks for your words of encouragement. :biggrin:

rabidpotatochip
01-13-2008, 07:49 PM
Interesting ideas...I'm seriously going to consider Ubuntu. Would you call Ubuntu fairly user friendly for absolute beginners? My wife's patience is running thin tonight, so I think I'm going to call 'er quits for right now and pick it up again tomorrow. I will also take a look at the md5 sum tomorrow to see what the deal is there.

Appreciate your help.

Ubuntu is extremely user-friendly; in some cases it'll make Windows look harsh. My favorite example is that it shows updates for all your software rather than just the operating system. Even as an absolute beginner you shouldn't have any trouble jumping right in.


Thanks for your words of encouragement. :biggrin:

:lol: Yeah, I realize that probably didn't come across too well. :blush:

gugi
01-13-2008, 07:59 PM
Yeah, I think I'd call ubuntu the most user friendly of the main distros, that's why i suggested that. they've put a considerable effort starting with a really solid base (debian) and improving the user interface and have put more money into that than anybody else.

There are a lot of projects that do the same, like linuxmint, knoppix, etc. (I'm out of date I know) but ubuntu is the one that has been backed by a lot of money. They even signed a deal with dell, so you can now purchase linux computers from dell and they'll run ubuntu. (That doesn't mean ubuntu is better, but the other big linux company, redhat, has been trying to get a contract like that for years.)

Yeah best to do it some other day. I remember the installation takes something like 20-30min, plus you have to download the CD (choose a mirror near you from the drop down menu).

Once you go to www.ubuntu.com it should be pretty straightforward what to do. I really like how they've been progressively going more and more intuitive apple style. (I just looked at their 'parent' distro debian and yeah, it's comprehensive, but the last thing it does is makes me want to try it - way too geeky for most people.)

RichGem
01-13-2008, 08:55 PM
Corey,

Wow, am I joining this thread late! Sorry about that. How did the install go?


I quickly skimmed the previous posts and I hope everything worked out. I've never seen a "microcode" error, so I have no idea what that means. But, don't worry about the scrolling white text when you boot; that's normal and inconsequential. Many distros cover this up with a cute splash screen, I guess Mint doesn't.

Did I get correctly that you're installing on a Dell? The installation should be no problem, but Dell proprietary hardware might be. Despite that Dell is on board (to a point) in supporting linux, some of their own hardware doesn't. (For ex., some of their all-in-one printer/fax/scanner). But, if it worked with the live cd, then you'll have no prob with the install.

If wireless networking continues to give you a problem, you have a few options... the surest one of working is to go with an ethernet/nic card (which can be wireless). Linux likes ethernet cards and should present no problem. USB wireless, however, in not always as well supported, but you may be able to work around it using "ndiswrapper" which allows you to use the win dirivers in a linux environment. I'm not sure of the dev stage at this point, but it may not be the easiest to set up depending on how Mint is set up (some distros come with ndiswrapper already set up).

-- Richard

gugi
01-13-2008, 09:24 PM
Richard, I'm pretty sure Corey was unable to install the Daryna release (4.0).
Microcode error is a pretty serious error and is followed by a kernel panic, so you can't proceed. I'm pretty sure passing some kernel options (no idea how to find which unless Corey can catch more of the message) can get around the problem, but this is way way more than a newbie should have to tackle, esp when the main help is over the internet.

That's why I suggested switching to another distro that's likely to be much smoother. I think the major linux distros have advanced considerably with hardware probing and general user friendliness, but certainly there are a lot of variations. I think ubuntu is the safest bet of things going smoothly, but we'll have to see what happens. If Corey finds problems with it I'll significantly downgrade my opinion of linux friendliness.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 05:31 AM
Richard, I'm pretty sure Corey was unable to install the Daryna release (4.0).
Microcode error is a pretty serious error and is followed by a kernel panic, so you can't proceed. I'm pretty sure passing some kernel options (no idea how to find which unless Corey can catch more of the message) can get around the problem, but this is way way more than a newbie should have to tackle, esp when the main help is over the internet.

That's why I suggested switching to another distro that's likely to be much smoother. I think the major linux distros have advanced considerably with hardware probing and general user friendliness, but certainly there are a lot of variations. I think ubuntu is the safest bet of things going smoothly, but we'll have to see what happens. If Corey finds problems with it I'll significantly downgrade my opinion of linux friendliness.


Thanks for the info! I learned something new & will have to research it in case I ever have the problem. Thankfully, all of my installs have gone smoothly (all RedHat or Fedora), but you're right the variations and possibilites are endless. Mint is a pretty new distro, maybe it doesn't have all the kinks worked out yet. I've never used Ubuntu beyond a quick playing with, but I think you're right that it'll be easier. I'm not a fan of gnome, but it's all what you get used to. Fedora, I think, is also easy enough at this point as well for him to try, but he will have to d/l proprietary codeces after install (fedora does offer a tool to do this for you now).

Hopefully, things will be looking up for Corey soon. It can be a very off-putting thing when installs go bad. Hopefully, he doesn't give up on linux all toghether.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 06:47 AM
That's right. I had no problems booting the live cd of Mint 2.2, however I did have the aforementioned issues with Mint 4.0. Weird. I mistakenly assumed that the latest would in fact be the greatest, i.e., fewer problems, but we all know that's not necessarily true. :wink:

Last night I did download Ubuntu from the link Gugi provided and let me just say that even that was a much easier and straightforward process that compared to getting Mint. I think you're right in saying that it's still just too new. I don't believe it's been out for a year yet.

Going forward, I will try Ubuntu. Thanks for your continued support, guys!

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 08:54 AM
Just burned a live cd of ubuntu and tried to boot it up on my laptop. Basically the same story as with Mint, although I did not see any microcode and/or load errors. I'll try to retrace my steps for you guys.

1. Rebooted PC with live cd in drive.
2. Ubuntu main menu comes up with all of the various options.
3. With the first option highlighted (Start or Install Ubuntu), I pressed enter.
4. Progress bar came up indicating that the Ubuntu kernal was loading.
5. New screen with the Ubuntu logo and another progress bar with a block going from left to right, then repeating.
6. Screen briefly goes black, before I see what can only be described as multiple blue, white, and yellow barcode patterns fill the entire screen. It was at this point with both Mint and Ubuntu that I was forced to power the PC down and reboot in Windows to make my plea for help. :tongue_sm

Also forgot to mention that I'm using a Dell Inspiron 1100 laptop.

Any ideas, guys?

liege
01-14-2008, 08:59 AM
Maybe the CD is corrupted? There should be an option while booting to check the CD. Also, when I was loading Mandriva, it didn't like my CD-ROM; it gave me the kernel panic. I had to use another external one for it to load up.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 09:19 AM
Maybe the CD is corrupted? There should be an option while booting to check the CD. Also, when I was loading Mandriva, it didn't like my CD-ROM; it gave me the kernel panic. I had to use another external one for it to load up.

Interesting. Ok, I'll try the check cd option and also different drives. I do have an external drive as well as the other computer, so I have a few options to look at.

Appreciate all the advice. Keep it coming!

rabidpotatochip
01-14-2008, 09:23 AM
The CD is fine, it's a problem you'll have to solve with some kernel parameters. Unfortunately I don't have time to help beyond that right now, but punching the problem into Google or the Ubuntu forums is guaranteed to give you a fix.

Good luck. :smile:

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 10:09 AM
The CD is fine, it's a problem you'll have to solve with some kernel parameters. Unfortunately I don't have time to help beyond that right now, but punching the problem into Google or the Ubuntu forums is guaranteed to give you a fix.

Good luck. :smile:

Hmm...

Is "kernal parameter problem" enough to search for or is there something more specific I search on?

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 10:11 AM
Hmm...

Is "kernal parameter problem" enough to search for or is there something more specific I search on?

A quick search on Google and it appears that this may be enough to keep me busy for now. Thanks Rabid.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 10:30 AM
Corey,

This is not going to be the most helpful advice, I'm afraid. I didn't realize you were trying to install on a laptop. Laptops can be an iffy subject with linux b/c laptops tend to not stick to standard components in the name of portability and pricing. So, basically, laptop hardware throws linux a few curve balls. Laptop support is much better than it used to be, but still not perfect in every case. Note my warning about Dell hardware too; it isn't all linux friendly. I'd google specifically on your laptop model and "linux" and see what others have come up with. Also, a call to Dell might be in order even if they will probably give you the run around and tell you that they don't support linux on their laptops (they do on their servers).

Also, if ubuntu (or others) give you the option to do a "text mode" install; try that. Sometimes a graphical install can overwhelm the computer even tho everything will work fine graphically once it is installed. Also note that 'Nvidia graphics cards are not supported "outta the box" by linux in most cases.

-- Richard

moses
01-14-2008, 10:47 AM
Also note that 'Nvidia graphics cards are not supported "outta the box" by linux in most cases.

How difficult is it to install with one, then? I'm on a built up PC, with a newer Nividia card.

-Mo

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 10:48 AM
Corey,

This is not going to be the most helpful advice, I'm afraid. I didn't realize you were trying to install on a laptop. Laptops can be an iffy subject with linux b/c laptops tend to not stick to standard components in the name of portability and pricing. So, basically, laptop hardware throws linux a few curve balls. Laptop support is much better than it used to be, but still not perfect in every case. Note my warning about Dell hardware too; it isn't all linux friendly. I'd google specifically on your laptop model and "linux" and see what others have come up with. Also, a call to Dell might be in order even if they will probably give you the run around and tell you that they don't support linux on their laptops (they do on their servers).

Also, if ubuntu (or others) give you the option to do a "text mode" install; try that. Sometimes a graphical install can overwhelm the computer even tho everything will work fine graphically once it is installed. Also note that 'Nvidia graphics cards are not supported "outta the box" by linux in most cases.

-- Richard

Ugh. :tongue_sm

I just ran the CD check from the main menu and it came back with no errors on the CD, so we can rule that out. I'm also now leaning towards it being my laptop.

While trying yet another futile boot, I was able to write down the following errors:

CPU Frequency Scaling not supported <---- sounds like a computer issue

Error: Microcode "bcm43xx_microcode5.fw" not available or load failed.

I was going to try booting from the desktop, but I can't figure out how to get it to boot from the CD first. On the laptop, it was as easy as hitting F2 to enter the setup menu, but on the desktop, it didn't work or even show me that option.

I should note that the desktop was built from the ground up by one of my wife's ex-boyfriend from High School :rolleyes: , so I have no idea what the deal is there...I can tell you that it is running Windows XP Professional.

Oh well, back to Google for now.

rabidpotatochip
01-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Actually, nVidia support blows ATI support out of the water. In fact, I wish I'd learned that a little sooner. *kicks his ATI-based motherboard* You may have to fuss with it a little either way, but generally nVidia works a little better.

Cory, I finally have time to take a look into your problem. I had the same problem when I installed Ubuntu, so I know it's something with the settings, but I can't remember how I fixed it. Give me time, though... :biggrin:

Edit: Does your laptop use ATI video? If so this page (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_7.10_(Gutsy_Gibbon)_on_a_Thinkpa d_T60) might help. If it's a thinkpad to boot I'm kicking more ass than usual today. :tongue:

Anyway, I'm going to continue searching until I find a definitive fix-all solution.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 10:55 AM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4106573


I just found this and after reading through it, I'm starting to wonder if I'm getting myself in over my head...It all seems terribly complicated and foreign to me. And all of this is assuming I already have Ubuntu installed. :cursing:

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 10:56 AM
Actually, nVidia support blows ATI support out of the water. In fact, I wish I'd learned that a little sooner. *kicks his ATI-based motherboard* You may have to fuss with it a little either way, but generally nVidia works a little better.

Cory, I finally have time to take a look into your problem. I had the same problem when I installed Ubuntu, so I know it's something with the settings, but I can't remember how I fixed it. Give me time, though... :biggrin:

Just saw this after my :cursing: ing post. :biggrin:

I'll be standing by. Thank you!

For now, I think a little Linux Decompression is in order with a little Guitar Hero III. :thumbsup:

rabidpotatochip
01-14-2008, 11:12 AM
Just saw this after my :cursing: ing post. :biggrin:

I'll be standing by. Thank you!

For now, I think a little Linux Decompression is in order with a little Guitar Hero III. :thumbsup:

Yeah, decompression is important. You don't want Linux bubbles forming in your bloodstream. :wink:

So, it's definitely something with how it's detecting your video, most likely improperly detecting the refresh rate specifically. I'm working on this on my lunch break at the moment so spectacular belief-shattering, awe-inspiring, world-changing answers will be a little lacking, but here goes...
Link 1 (https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/20342), Link 2 (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_7.10_(Gutsy_Gibbon)_on_a_Thinkpa d_T60) (from my previous post's edit), Link 3 (http://jlai.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/screen-flashes-ubuntu-newbie-series/) (unlikely, but we can hope!). If you read nothing else from those links just try this, when the screen starts flashing like crazy hit CTRL+ALT+F1. It SHOULD bring up a text terminal. That will at least confirm whether the problem occurs when it's trying to load X (the GUI).

Argh... now you've got me all worked up about this. By that I mean a good chunk of my spare time will be donated towards making it work. :biggrin:

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 11:44 AM
Yeah, decompression is important. You don't want Linux bubbles forming in your bloodstream. :wink:

So, it's definitely something with how it's detecting your video, most likely improperly detecting the refresh rate specifically. I'm working on this on my lunch break at the moment so spectacular belief-shattering, awe-inspiring, world-changing answers will be a little lacking, but here goes...
Link 1 (https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/20342), Link 2 (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_7.10_(Gutsy_Gibbon)_on_a_Thinkpa d_T60) (from my previous post's edit), Link 3 (http://jlai.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/screen-flashes-ubuntu-newbie-series/) (unlikely, but we can hope!). If you read nothing else from those links just try this, when the screen starts flashing like crazy hit CTRL+ALT+F1. It SHOULD bring up a text terminal. That will at least confirm whether the problem occurs when it's trying to load X (the GUI).

Argh... now you've got me all worked up about this. By that I mean a good chunk of my spare time will be donated towards making it work. :biggrin:

:eek: I've created a rabid, foaming at the mouth, potato-type product monster!

:lol:

I will follow your links and other instructions and report back in detail. Thanks again. I certainly didn't mean to take from the most important hour in a man's workday, but if you're feeling a certain compulsion, I understand that too. :wink:

RichGem
01-14-2008, 12:03 PM
How difficult is it to install with one, then? I'm on a built up PC, with a newer Nividia card.

-Mo

Mo,

The answer is, "it depends." The root of the problem is that Nvidia uses proprietary code & specs which they refuse to make available to anyone else. They are of course, within their rights to do so. However, that leaves everyone else (ie: linux people) to have to reverse-enginer (sp) the driver. This has been done by much smarter people than I. Or, you can dl old drivers from nvida and hope they work. That's part one.

Part 2 is that most linux distros are very dedicated to open source code and therefore, while not disallowing you to install proprietary drivers, etc, do make it difficult. Some distros have the nvidia software available, but just not already installed. THat software may or may not be as good as the real deal from nvidia, but it's normally straight forward to install.
If you need the latest and greatest you may have to compile your own from available (edit: reverse-eng.) source code and this can get tricky since (i think) you ahve to compile against your specific kernel version.

Part 3 is that this is an extreme case and if you are happy with not getting all the wiz bang outta your nvidia card then you'll be fine using open source drivers, but then that seems like a lotta money spent on a good card that you can't use all the features of.

As for myself, I don't need the high end aspects of an nvidia card and I try to be as open source as possible. So, for me it's not an issue and I don't use nvidia cards.

moses
01-14-2008, 12:08 PM
Part 3 is that this is an extreme case and if you are happy with not getting all the wiz bang outta your nvidia card then you'll be fine using open source drivers, but then that seems like a lotta money spent on a good card that you can't use all the features of.

As for myself, I don't need the high end aspects of an nvidia card and I try to be as open source as possible. So, for me it's not an issue and I don't use nvidia cards.

Thanks a lot of the insight.

a) I think compiling my own from source code is above and beyond my current skills, and I have not the time, probably to learn.

b) Well, I really don't need all the wiz-bang, I suppose. At least on my linux install, since I imagine the little bit of gaming I do will still be done in Windows. So, all I need is to find a way to make it work fairly well.

-Mo

RichGem
01-14-2008, 12:20 PM
Thanks a lot of the insight.

a) I think compiling my own from source code is above and beyond my current skills, and I have not the time, probably to learn.

b) Well, I really don't need all the wiz-bang, I suppose. At least on my linux install, since I imagine the little bit of gaming I do will still be done in Windows. So, all I need is to find a way to make it work fairly well.

-Mo

My pleasure.

Then you should be OK with the regular linux drivers. There aren't many games for linux anyhow, at least of the caliber that would require high end graphics.

Compiling from source actually isn't that bad (edit: 95&#37; of the time). It is however, time consuming and can be frustrating if you also have to track down and compile dependencies. And of course, if dependencies are involved, everything has to be compiled & installed separately and in the correct order.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 12:29 PM
Corey,

You can ignore the "cpu frequency scaling" message which is an informational warning, not an error per se.

As for the rest, it sounds like Rabid's got the best advice going. I hope it works out. At worst, it sounds like you may have to manually edit a config file. Not fun for a newbie, but not terribly horrible either. Ok, it's prolly a little scary since you're not used to working in a text-only environment and with unfamiliar programs, but it's do-able if you have to. But, hopefully, you don't have to.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 12:32 PM
Yeah, decompression is important. You don't want Linux bubbles forming in your bloodstream. :wink:



Yes Corey, be sure to end the day with a high end/favorite product shave, a good cigar (I believe that you enjoy such things also), and if you;re of a mind to, your favorite potent potable.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 01:00 PM
Yes Corey, be sure to end the day with a high end/favorite product shave, a good cigar (I believe that you enjoy such things also), and if you;re of a mind to, your favorite potent potable.

Words to live by. :biggrin:

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 01:09 PM
:eek: I've created a rabid, foaming at the mouth, potato-type product monster!

:lol:

I will follow your links and other instructions and report back in detail. Thanks again. I certainly didn't mean to take from the most important hour in a man's workday, but if you're feeling a certain compulsion, I understand that too. :wink:

Ok, I took a look at the links, but unfortunately didn't get too much out of them.

Here is what I saw on the screen after I did the CTRL+ALT+F1 once the screen became all scrambled:


the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY to the extent permitted by applicable law.

To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>".

Ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ [211.634250] bcm43xx:Error:microcode "bcm43xx_microcode5.fw" not available or load failed

[233.6730]bcm43xx:Error:microcode "bcm43xx_microcode5.fw" not available or load failed

*with several more of these "not available or load failed" messages starting with different numbers in brackets.

Hoping that the fact that the CTRL+ALT+F1 brought the screen back to text is a good sign.

Now off to decompress some more.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Corey,

You can ignore the "cpu frequency scaling" message which is an informational warning, not an error per se.

As for the rest, it sounds like Rabid's got the best advice going. I hope it works out. At worst, it sounds like you may have to manually edit a config file. Not fun for a newbie, but not terribly horrible either. Ok, it's prolly a little scary since you're not used to working in a text-only environment and with unfamiliar programs, but it's do-able if you have to. But, hopefully, you don't have to.

Side question. If necessary, will I be able to edit files without having anything installed yet? I'm under the impression that any changes made while working off of the CD are lost after each reboot. With that being said, is the idea to try things, keep record of what you're doing, and when something works on the CD, go back, install, and re-create what you did? Then again, what's a person to do if they can't get so far as installing? It makes sense if you install and then have problems doing things, but I can't even get that far...

Oh well, I'll leave it in the hands of the professionals. That would be you guys. :wink:

RichGem
01-14-2008, 01:20 PM
Ok, I took a look at the links, but unfortunately didn't get too much out of them.

Here is what I saw on the screen after I did the CTRL+ALT+F1 once the screen became all scrambled:



*with several more of these "not available or load failed" messages starting with different numbers in brackets.

Hoping that the fact that the CTRL+ALT+F1 brought the screen back to text is a good sign.

Now off to decompress some more.

I'm taking a stab here since I don't know what that microcode error means. But, it does look like you are getting to a command prompt after the ctrl+alt+f1. This is good as it means that linux has loaded and is running. So, it seems like it's having trouble starting the GUI (graphical environment). Again, taking a stab....

from the command prompt (the $ with flashing cursor), try typing in "startx" (without the quotes). This may bring up the GUI or it may try and then crash back to a prompt. If it crashes, try entering "xconfig" (no quotes) and see what happens. If this runs fine (ie: you're back at prompt with no error messages), then type "startx" and you may be up and running graphically. If not, I'm stuck for ideas. EDIT: if you do end up with a GUI, you should have to go through this procedure only one time.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm taking a stab here since I don't know what that microcode error means. But, it does look like you are getting to a command prompt after the ctrl+alt+f1. This is good as it means that linux has loaded and is running. So, it seems like it's having trouble starting the GUI (graphical environment). Again, taking a stab....

from the command prompt (the $ with flashing cursor), try typing in "startx" (without the quotes). This may bring up the GUI or it may try and then crash back to a prompt. If it crashes, try entering "xconfig" (no quotes) and see what happens. If this runs fine (ie: you're back at prompt with no error messages), then type "startx" and you may be up and running graphically. If not, I'm stuck for ideas. EDIT: if you do end up with a GUI, you should have to go through this procedure only one time.

Like a moth to the flame, here I go. Thanks, Rich. I'll be back shortly to report.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 01:26 PM
Side question. If necessary, will I be able to edit files without having anything installed yet? I'm under the impression that any changes made while working off of the CD are lost after each reboot. With that being said, is the idea to try things, keep record of what you're doing, and when something works on the CD, go back, install, and re-create what you did? Then again, what's a person to do if they can't get so far as installing? It makes sense if you install and then have problems doing things, but I can't even get that far...

Oh well, I'll leave it in the hands of the professionals. That would be you guys. :wink:

you're right about cd changes not being saved. the manual editing comes in IF you manage to install and something is misconfigured which is preventing the GUI from launching. In this case you'd have already done an install but would need to get to a text only environment. we'll cross that bridge if/when you come to it. It can be complicated, especially since none of us are sitting at the computer with you. Thankfully, it's a rare case that something like that happens and even if something ends up misconfigured, in most cases you still wind up in a GUI but maybe one that's the wrong res or size or wrong refresh rate.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 01:30 PM
Corey,

Is there no option for a text mode install (possibly called safemode)? (I'm not that familiar with the Ubuntu installer.) That would be easiest at this point, if that option exists.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Corey,

Is there no option for a text mode install (possibly called safemode)? (I'm not that familiar with the Ubuntu installer.) That would be easiest at this point, if that option exists.

Yes, there is an option for a "Graphic safemode." I tried that option as well instead of the first and encountered the same problems.

Here are the results from trying the startx and xconfig commands:


Fatal server error. Server is already active for display 0

If this server is no longer running, remove /tmp/.X0-lock and start again.

xinit: unable to connect to x server
xlib: invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key giving up
xinit: no such process (errno 3): server error

RichGem
01-14-2008, 01:54 PM
Yes, there is an option for a "Graphic safemode." I tried that option as well instead of the first and encountered the same problems.

Here are the results from trying the startx and xconfig commands:

OK, here we go... do all the above again. when you get the remove blah blah blah error type this:

"sudo rm /tmp/.X0-lock" (or whatever file name it gives you.... /tmp/.xxxxx)

repeat the xconfig and startx business and see what happens.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 01:59 PM
oh, you may (but shouldn't ) get an error that you can't "sudo" (ie: temporarily become the linux equivalent of god). If so, you're kinda in deep and I don't know how to fix it. That error is telling you that there's a lock file in place on "X" (the graphical subsystem. this is done so that you can't start 2 instances of x which is a sensible thing to do). To override that precaution, you need to be superuser (root) and the "sudo" command lets you do that temporarily, but only some users are permitted to use sudo.

I'm pretty convinced by now that this is not a linux issue per se, however. I think there's something funky going on with the dell hardware that the ubuntu installer is not coping with. You may want to try another distro which uses a different installer such as Fedora or Knoppix (the original live cd). Just a thought if you're not totally frustrated and/or on the verge of giving up by now.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 02:04 PM
And of course, there's always the option to throw the @#$%@#$ computer out the @#$%^# window and smash it into tiny @$%@$#% little pieces. But, that might be a bit extreme at this point.

liege
01-14-2008, 02:13 PM
Walmart sells a Linux box all ready to go for about $200.00. I don't know if they still have them; this was around Christmas time.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 02:19 PM
Walmart sells a Linux box all ready to go for about $200.00. I don't know if they still have them; this was around Christmas time.

yeah, the specs are OK on them, but the version of linux (IMHO) isn't the greatest. But, lynchmeister's trying to install on a laptop.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 02:21 PM
Corey,

I suggested Knoppix above b/c a lot of people think it has the best hardware detection routines so that may take care of your problem if it's something knoppix can identify and cope with.

liege
01-14-2008, 02:31 PM
yeah, the specs are OK on them, but the version of linux (IMHO) isn't the greatest. But, lynchmeister's trying to install on a laptop.

I know. I was referring to and trying to avoid this:

there's always the option to throw the @#$%@#$ computer out the @#$%^# window and smash it into tiny @$%@$#% little pieces.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 02:31 PM
OK, here we go... do all the above again. when you get the remove blah blah blah error type this:

"sudo rm /tmp/.X0-lock" (or whatever file name it gives you.... /tmp/.xxxxx)

repeat the xconfig and startx business and see what happens.

Will give this a try.


And of course, there's always the option to throw the @#$%@#$ computer out the @#$%^# window and smash it into tiny @$%@$#% little pieces. But, that might be a bit extreme at this point.

This sounds good!


Corey,

I suggested Knoppix above b/c a lot of people think it has the best hardware detection routines so that may take care of your problem if it's something knoppix can identify and cope with.

Knoppix is also available as a live CD that I can download and burn?



Here's a thought I just had. Does anyone see any problems with me installing Mint 2.2, which gave me no problems from the live cd (besides wireless, but that's a whole 'nother issue.). Once 2.2 is installed and I get an internet connection, would it automatically prompt me with updates to bring me up to 4.0?

RichGem
01-14-2008, 02:50 PM
Knoppix is avail. as a live cd, in fact, it's the originial live cd and you get a mega-ton of software on it. um, as I think about it, there's now a DVD only version and a CD version. make sure you d/l the right one if you do.

If you can install Mint 2.2 then yes, you should be able to upgrade to the latest version with no problem. It, however, will not be automatic other than a (possible) indication that an update is available. If you're on broadband (and I' think I'm the only schmuck that isn't), you should have no problem other than a time investment.


Will give this a try.



This sounds good!



Knoppix is also available as a live CD that I can download and burn?



Here's a thought I just had. Does anyone see any problems with me installing Mint 2.2, which gave me no problems from the live cd (besides wireless, but that's a whole 'nother issue.). Once 2.2 is installed and I get an internet connection, would it automatically prompt me with updates to bring me up to 4.0?

rabidpotatochip
01-14-2008, 02:52 PM
Knoppix was originally a live CD only distribution designed for people who messed up their Windows partition or wanted to screw around with a lightweight version of Linux. It's Debian-based, which means package installation is pretty simple.

Also, that bcm43xx etc. error relates to it being unable to load drivers for a wireless adapter with the broadcom chipset.

Worst case, +1 on the window option. :biggrin:

Edit: OH!! Boot parameter... add DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text to the list. That'll give you a text-based install. Also, looks like RichGem beat me on the Knoppix thing.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 03:08 PM
Edit: OH!! Boot parameter... add DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text to the list. That'll give you a text-based install. Also, looks like RichGem beat me on the Knoppix thing.

So once I do the CTRL+ALT+F1, I type "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text" ?


I'm getting very close to saying &#%! it and just installing Mint 2.2 from the disc that works and then from there working on getting the wireless configured. What do you guys think? I'm beginning to think that may be the easiest route.

I'll continue with the suggestions made prior in the meantime.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 03:16 PM
So once I do the CTRL+ALT+F1, I type "DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text" ?



NO. EDIT: boot as normal w/ the CD in the drive. Once the original boot menu comes up (where you chose install/ safe install/etc), highlight one of them (one's already highligthed usually). Press 'e" that will let you edit boot parameters. Scroll to the end of the line with your cursor keys. at the end, type a space and then the bold text above. then press 'b' (i think) to boot (your choices should be listed on screen or on the previous screen). You may also have to press enter, then "b". EDIT: this will then (we hope) lead to a text-based install procedure.

RichGem
01-14-2008, 03:18 PM
Knoppix was originally a live CD only distribution designed for people who messed up their Windows partition or wanted to screw around with a lightweight version of Linux. It's Debian-based, which means package installation is pretty simple.

Also, that bcm43xx etc. error relates to it being unable to load drivers for a wireless adapter with the broadcom chipset.

Worst case, +1 on the window option. :biggrin:

Edit: OH!! Boot parameter... add DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text to the list. That'll give you a text-based install. Also, looks like RichGem beat me on the Knoppix thing.

Great find there, Rabid. And "thank God" for non-standard kernel options. <sarcasm> yeesh.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 03:21 PM
Tried everything again and got nowhere. I tried the DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text and it didn't seem to do anything.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 03:22 PM
NO. EDIT: boot as normal w/ the CD in the drive. Once the original boot menu comes up (where you chose install/ safe install/etc), highlight one of them (one's already highligthed usually). Press 'e" that will let you edit boot parameters. Scroll to the end of the line with your cursor keys. at the end, type a space and then the bold text above. then press 'b' (i think) to boot (your choices should be listed on screen or on the previous screen). You may also have to press enter, then "b". EDIT: this will then (we hope) lead to a text-based install procedure.

AH HA! Ok, back to reboot.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 03:27 PM
Pressed the e key with the first option highlighted and got no response.

gugi
01-14-2008, 03:44 PM
hmm the error you are getting seems to be from the installation trying to configure the wireless.

however i think the problem is that the graphics card is not being properly recognized.

I thought the link you found on ubuntu forums has manageable instructions, but they mostly refer to the postinstall process and you're not even getting there.

The only useful suggestion at this stage is upgrading your BIOS (from Windows) and setting the VideoMemory option to 8MB there. My understanding is that with that the safe graphics mode should work.

Anyways all these things used to be the norm with linux installs up to 3-4 years ago and I thought essentially all hardware is now properly recognized. I guess not really. Dell has people with excellent linux expertise and they could help you a lot, but the problem is getting escalated to one of them. They currently sell laptops with ubuntu, but getting support for the 1100 may be quite tricky.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 03:50 PM
Again, I have to ask. At this point, wouldn't it make the most sense to boot up the live cd of Linux Mint 2.2 (that OMG, actually works!), run ndiswrapper, and try to get the wireless card working? Then, if that works, install it, repeat, update to 4.0, and (a BIG theoretical here) be a happy new Linux user?

Gugi, I will try upgrading the BIOS to 8MB and then rebooting in Safe Graphics mode.

***Can't say it enough: Thank all of you for you patience and help!

gugi
01-14-2008, 03:50 PM
also looking at the pictures at http://www.howtoforge.com/the_perfect_desktop_ubuntu_gutsy_gibbon
it seems that you change/add the boot options not by pressing 'e' but by F6
(the bottom row of the startup screen)

Also not sure what VGA does, but may be interesting to look what would F4 do.

I'll start vmware now and see what do F4 and F6 do exactly.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 03:57 PM
Hmmm....Ok, I'm in the BIOS and the UMA Video Memory is displayed on the first page, but it won't let me arrow down to it to change it. It's currently at 1MB. Any ideas on how to change it? Thanks!

RichGem
01-14-2008, 03:58 PM
Pressed the e key with the first option highlighted and got no response.

!$#%@#% !!!

Sorry, Corey, that shoulda worked. Anyone here more familiar with ubuntu that I? I'm outta ideas and feel very frustrated for the Lynchmeister.

Maybe tomorrow call Dell and just get on their cases about helping you. Unfortunately, this looks like one of those situations where you gotta be sitting at the computer.

gugi
01-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Again, I have to ask. At this point, wouldn't it make the most sense to boot up the live cd of Linux Mint 2.2 (that OMG, actually works!), run ndiswrapper, and try to get the wireless card working? Then, if that works, install it, repeat, update to 4.0, and (a BIG theoretical here) be a happy new Linux user?


I'm not sure how easy would upgraging from 2.2 to 4.0 be, but in principle you may be fine with 2.2 for a while (at some point they'll stop releasing security upgrades).

But yes, if the bios upgrading + videomem setting doesn't make it work in safe graphics mode i'd say try getting wireless on 2.2 as it should be easier than trying to cajole the install of the latest versions.

gugi
01-14-2008, 04:02 PM
Hmmm....Ok, I'm in the BIOS and the UMA Video Memory is displayed on the first page, but it won't let me arrow down to it to change it. It's currently at 1MB. Any ideas on how to change it? Thanks!

did you upgrade the bios? i'm thinking that the old bios may not be allowing the change - no idea really, but upgrading the bios to the latest from dell was the first step in the instructions on the ubuntu forums page you found.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 04:09 PM
did you upgrade the bios? i'm thinking that the old bios may not be allowing the change - no idea really, but upgrading the bios to the latest from dell was the first step in the instructions on the ubuntu forums page you found.

Not yet...still trying to figure out how to do it. The video memory was displayed on the first page, but the only thing I could scroll through and modify was the clock.

Off to Google after I get another beer.

gugi
01-14-2008, 04:18 PM
Not yet...still trying to figure out how to do it. The video memory was displayed on the first page, but the only thing I could scroll through and modify was the clock.

Off to Google after I get another beer.
sounds like a good idea :)
to upgrade the bios you'll go to dell's page and look for it. Seems like it's this:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?c=us&dl=false&l=en&s=gen&docid=F37D37A3F4C8ABE1E030030ABD627DF7&doclang=en&cs=

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 04:20 PM
sounds like a good idea :)
to upgrade the bios you'll go to dell's page and look for it. Seems like it's this:
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?c=us&dl=false&l=en&s=gen&docid=F37D37A3F4C8ABE1E030030ABD627DF7&doclang=en&cs=

I need to download an udate? Am I interpreting that link correctly?

gugi
01-14-2008, 04:22 PM
yes, that's the page with the instructions and the download. it's an exe file that you download, then you double click and then you wait until it's complete.
make sure your computer is plugged in the electricity and also has charged battery. once the process starts it shouldn't be interrupted until completed.


p.s. i think flashing the bios takes several minutes - may be up to 5.

Lynchmeister
01-14-2008, 04:46 PM
yes, that's the page with the instructions and the download. it's an exe file that you download, then you double click and then you wait until it's complete.
make sure your computer is plugged in the electricity and also has charged battery. once the process starts it shouldn't be interrupted until completed.


p.s. i think flashing the bios takes several minutes - may be up to 5.

My nerves are shot for the day, so I'm going to continue the madness tomorrow.

Man, I know I said I wanted to "get my hands a little dirty," but I had no idea! :biggrin:

gugi
01-14-2008, 05:09 PM
Man, I know I said I wanted to "get my hands a little dirty," but I had no idea! :biggrin:

well yeah - when things don't work it can be quite a steep curve. but OTOH imagine if they worked - it's a piece of cake (remember mint 2.2. was ok, except for the wireless). it seems the inspiron 1100 is one of these 'problematic' ones as from what i saw on the ubuntu forum page things that ought to be automatically detected need to be set manually, or they get assigned incorrectly.

alternatively you could try your desktop. as far as i understand it's old, so it may actually benefit from running linux instead of windows. to make it boot of the CD first you've got to watch the startup messages and see how to get to the BIOS. Once there, there is somewhere a Boot Options selection and you can specify the order of the devices.

anyways, good luck tomorrow

rabidpotatochip
01-14-2008, 05:44 PM
My nerves are shot for the day, so I'm going to continue the madness tomorrow.

Man, I know I said I wanted to "get my hands a little dirty," but I had no idea! :biggrin:

Don't worry. You'll be compiling a kernel from source in no time. :biggrin:

Good luck for tomorrow. :smile:

RichGem
01-18-2008, 07:45 PM
So are we dead in the water here guys, or what? Or has Corey's zap collar been going off too much for spending too much time on the computer? (oh, um, different thread for that one).

rabidpotatochip
01-18-2008, 08:00 PM
I've got nothing.

I know it's a problem with detecting the video but the information gods haven't been kind in providing further details. :mad:

RichGem
01-18-2008, 08:48 PM
I've got nothing.

I know it's a problem with detecting the video but the information gods haven't been kind in providing further details. :mad:

Has Corey been able to consult w/ Dell and/or maybe try Knoppix (v. gd. hardware detection)?

Lynchmeister
01-19-2008, 06:25 AM
Hey Guys, here's the run-down. At first I was frustrated with Linux, but it took me all of 2 minutes to realize that I was really frustrated with my Dell laptop, which won't play nicely with Linux. Linux is fine.

Rich, no, I didn't bother trying to contact Dell at this point. I've had to in the past and at this point I would take any alternative over spending multiple hours on the phone to tech support. :wink:

So I did some deep breathing exercises and decided to put it on hold until I have the available space to resurrect my old HP Pavillion that's running *gasp* Windows 98, and devote it solely to Linux.

My wife handled my week of Linux mania in stride, much to her credit as she's already competing for my attention with Guitar Hero III, hectic work schedules, our dog and cat, and Seinfeld re-runs. :lol:

rabidpotatochip
01-19-2008, 09:14 AM
Hey Guys, here's the run-down. At first I was frustrated with Linux, but it took me all of 2 minutes to realize that I was really frustrated with my Dell laptop, which won't play nicely with Linux. Linux is fine.

Rich, no, I didn't bother trying to contact Dell at this point. I've had to in the past and at this point I would take any alternative over spending multiple hours on the phone to tech support. :wink:

So I did some deep breathing exercises and decided to put it on hold until I have the available space to resurrect my old HP Pavillion that's running *gasp* Windows 98, and devote it solely to Linux.

My wife handled my week of Linux mania in stride, much to her credit as she's already competing for my attention with Guitar Hero III, hectic work schedules, our dog and cat, and Seinfeld re-runs. :lol:

I see Linux as a penguin with multiple personalities, and not every personality is user friendly. :wink:

Wives are surprisingly good where computer hobbies are concerned. At first she was upset with my hijacking the television at the most random hours for my MythTV box but we've reached a compromise and I have a massive network cable running from the office so I can ssh into it from here instead. hehe

Windows 98 rocks as long as you're not changing network settings. "Crap, I have to reboot again." became a common phrase in my house. Anyway, that system should be great for Linux; most versions handle "old" hardware pretty well, it might even be more responsive than with Win 98.

RichGem
01-19-2008, 10:28 AM
Just for fun, I'd still like to know how/if Knoppix can cope with the video prob. Hint hint Corey. :biggrin:

Lynchmeister
01-19-2008, 10:31 AM
Just for fun, I'd still like to know how/if Knoppix can cope with the video prob. Hint hint Corey. :biggrin:

I think I'm picking up what you're putting down...I'll have another five day weekend coming up next week. By the end, it'll be back to work on Monday, or off to the loony bin. :wink:

RichGem
01-19-2008, 11:05 AM
I think I'm picking up what you're putting down...I'll have another five day weekend coming up next week. By the end, it'll be back to work on Monday, or off to the loony bin. :wink:

Either way, you've got something to look forward to.


Yeesh, 5 day weekends... where do I sign up!?

EDIT: BTW, don't bother trying to install Knoppix just yet. Let's see if it'll at least work as a live CD or DVD (you have 2 download options w/ the DVD having even more software on it).

Lynchmeister
01-25-2008, 04:22 PM
I think I'm picking up what you're putting down...I'll have another five day weekend coming up next week. By the end, it'll be back to work on Monday, or off to the loony bin. :wink:

...officially starting in 40 minutes.

Stay tuned for one of the following scenarios the coming five days:

:w00t:

or

:sod:

rabidpotatochip
01-25-2008, 04:25 PM
...officially starting in 40 minutes.

Stay tuned for one of the following scenarios the coming five days:

:w00t:

or

:sod:

Here's hoping for option 1.

I'll be on and off the computer tonight (like that's anything new) if you need any help. Just post it and wait. :smile:

Lynchmeister
01-25-2008, 04:52 PM
Here's hoping for option 1.

I'll be on and off the computer tonight (like that's anything new) if you need any help. Just post it and wait. :smile:

Thanks! The help you and Rich have given me thus far has been appreciated. :thumbup1:

rabidpotatochip
01-25-2008, 05:03 PM
Thanks! The help you and Rich have given me thus far has been appreciated. :thumbup1:

Now if it was just helpful... :biggrin:

I understand your frustrations, though, I spent the last two nights trying to get my MythTV system to control my Expressvu receiver. Last night just before I went to bed it finally worked... after a total of seven hours of fiddling with settings and compiling modules. I've sank about $500 into this system and I've been half ready to give up on it a few times.

Usually the experience isn't that bad, but Linux definitely has a few quirks that can be troublesome. If you really need a wireless network and you can't get it up and running you can buy a router and create a wireless bridge. That's what I came up with a few days ago. Of course, then you need another router...

Ah well, apparently the missus needs help with supper. Good luck!

RichGem
01-25-2008, 08:50 PM
Glad to help any time, Corey.

RichGem
01-26-2008, 09:04 PM
Coery & Chip,

In February's edition of Linux Format magazine, a guy writes in about installing Ubuntu and having problems that sound just like Corey's. The answer given was as follows (some extraneous stuff edited by me).



Your problem is not unique.... [Y]ou may need to leave it a minute or two [for the screen to clear up].

If waiting doesn't work for you, you need to use the Alternate CD (emphasis RichGem's), which uses a text installer without the Live CD desktop. Although the installer is text based, the installed system [will have] a full desktop. This is sometimes needed when the Live CD cannot handle your graphics hardware. The text installer also allows a few more choices than the Live CD and generally has a higher success rate.



This is apparently a separate download, but maybe it will work.

Hope this helps. Also, I'm sending you both the same info via PM.

Best & good luck!
Richard

gugi
01-26-2008, 09:31 PM
yes, try the alternate CD then. last week i found though that the ubuntu mirrors are pretty broken as the check mark you put to choose the alternate cd version didn't do anything.
So, here's a direct link for you, from a fast US mirror, if you haven't gotten it already.

http://ubuntu.media.mit.edu/ubuntu-releases/gutsy/ubuntu-7.10-alternate-i386.iso

Confuzius
01-27-2008, 12:16 PM
Are you still using Mint? or Ubuntu 7.10
I've fiddled around with a bunch of different Linux distro, so far the easiest to install and most reliable for me (4 different computers) has been Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10
One tip that I will give you from personal experience is that when you're burning a linux distro CD burn it slow, 2x or 4x I've had hours of frustration save just by re-burning the cd at a slower speed.

Right now on this computer I'm running Ubuntu 7.10 with compiz fusion (fun eyecandy, search youtube for some demos) on an Nvidia 7600GS running dual monitors, 21" wide LCD and a 19" CRT next to it.

I havn't booted into windows in months.

It just takes patience, a willing to read everything you can find on a certain topic but when you're done the satisfaction of knowing that you did something that flusters many others along with the uniqueness and individuality that your computer will have is well worth it.

Lynchmeister
01-28-2008, 08:10 AM
Thanks guys. Yes I'm burning the disks as slow as my drive will allow (16x!). Hoping today's the day to get some work done on this, but I do have a lot of errand catch up to do today, so we'll see.

I think I will try booting Mint on the laptop again and when the screen gets jacked up, just letting it sit for 10-15 minutes to see what happens. If that doesn't work, I'm off to get an alternate cd.

Will keep you all posted.

gugi
01-28-2008, 05:39 PM
i suspect you won't get the graphical install on these lastest versions of mint. ubuntu, knoppix....
it seems like it's an upstream problem in debian (or may be the kernel) where all these guys all take it from.
but nothing wrong giving it a try.

weren't you going to install on your old desktop, instead?

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 08:15 AM
i suspect you won't get the graphical install on these lastest versions of mint. ubuntu, knoppix....
it seems like it's an upstream problem in debian (or may be the kernel) where all these guys all take it from.
but nothing wrong giving it a try.

weren't you going to install on your old desktop, instead?

Yes, but this won't be until I buy a house as space is very limited in my apartment. Fingers are crossed that this will be happening within a year. :w00t:

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 01:24 PM
Deep breath, guys. I'm downloading the image file to burn an alternate cd of Ubuntu 7.10...

I'll be sure to keep you all posted.

Confuzius
01-29-2008, 01:37 PM
Cool stuff.
I've never had to resort to an alternate CD, but you never know.
I hope it works out for you!

daveesq
01-29-2008, 01:40 PM
From my experience with Linux and laptops, it's not at all infrequent to need the "alternate" CD. Something about the non-standard hardware . . . .

Good luck, and keep on postin' (it's been an interesting read).

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 03:09 PM
Here we go guys. Just started up my laptop (posting from it now) and put the cd in. Now for the reboot. Wish me luck.

daveesq
01-29-2008, 03:14 PM
Buonam Fortunam!

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 03:24 PM
Ok here's the skinny...

The CD works! There's still one hurdle, though, depending on how you look at it. From what I can see, it's prompting me to install right away. Is this in fact a live CD? Or simply an installation CD? I'd like to work off a live CD for the time being and see if I can get the wireless to work using ndiswrapper, etc.

Side question. Let's say it's not a live CD and my only choice is to go ahead with installation. Is it difficult to partition the hard drive so that it is dual bootable with Windows? And worse case scenerio, what is involved in uninstalling Linux if necessary. Are we talking reformat the hard drive time?

daveesq
01-29-2008, 03:49 PM
It may very well not be a live CD; after all they only have so much room on a live CD for drivers, etc., what with all the apps.

It isn't too hard to repartition. The hard part is keeping the data you have already (this is much complicated by having a full Windows partition). If your Windows partition is formatted as FAT or a variant thereof, parted will take care of it for you just fine and GRUB will handle the dual-booting. If it's NTFS, things become more difficult in terms of partitioning, but not in terms of dual-booting.

Uninstalling linux is typically pretty easy. You delete the partition entries, resize your Windows partition to its original (full) size and have Windows rewrite the bootsector from the Windows CD repair process. You shouldn't need to reformat the whole disk.

Before you do any of this, though, make sure you have a backup of your data. Parted works fine, but there's always a chance it'll screw up. In that case, it's usually as easy as just putting the partition table back to what it was beforehand, but it's not 100&#37; failsafe.

Hope this helps.

Confuzius
01-29-2008, 03:52 PM
Alternate CD as I understand is not a liveCD.

Firstly make sure you have all important information backed up, preferably on an external hard drive.

My dual boot routine is as follows:

1. Pop in windows CD, when given the option, delete all existing partitions

(this is why you want your data backed up, also make sure all external hard drives are disconnected so you don't accidentally nuke them)

2. Create new partitions.

Depending on the size of the hard drive I usually do 30gb for Windows, 50gb for Linux and 20-100gb Shared. I use linux more so I give it more space. Also if it's an older computer or you have less than 1-2gb of RAM you'll want to also create a swap partition for linux, usually 256mb-1gb.

3. Of these new partitions format the first one as NTFS for Windows and proceed to install windows as normally. Leave the rest of the partitions unformated, we'll deal with them while installing linux.

4. Windows works, shut down and start installing linux (I'll use Ubuntu as an example)

I can not vouch for the alternate install at this point, so I will just assume it's very similar to the regular install, but with the basic "dos" graphics.
After choosing your language and keyboard it gets to a point when it asks you where you would like to install it. The default is "Guided Full Disk" you DO NOT WANT THIS, it will overwrite windows. Choose advanced.
There should be a list of partitions, one NTFS with windows installed, and 3 blank.
Format the one you're going to install linux on as EXT3 and tell it to mount this drive as "/"
Format the "shared drive" I use mine for movies, music, documents etc. as NTFS (Ubuntu 7.10 has built in read/write support for NTFS) This should be mounted as /media/whateveryouwanttocallit
Format the last small one as Linux Swap, this is abit of a mystery to me, I don't bother with swap on computers with more than 1gb of ram, it hasn't had a negative impact as of yet, but it's recommended so you may as well go with it.

5. If you have selected to mount the EXT3 partition as "/" you can proceed with the rest of the installation as per the onscreen instructions.

Ubuntu should detect that you have windows installed on the other NTFS partition and setup grub bootloader with all of the right options, then when you reboot you will see a menu to boot Ubuntu, Ubuntu in safe mode, Windows and a memtest probably.


6. Start wrestling with your video card.

There are many great tutorials on the ubuntu forums, I highly recommend compiz fusion (eye-candy that makes your computer look like it belongs in the future) as well, abit of a headache, but once you get it up and running you will begin to have a much better understanding of the way things work in linux.

**DISCLAIMER: If you break something, I will not be held responible :tongue_sm

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 04:29 PM
Hmm...bummer. I was hoping this was a live CD because I have zero Linux experience and was hoping to gain some through the CD. At this point I just don't feel comfortable installing linux on this computer because I feel there is too much at risk if I (invariably) screw something up.

Confuzius
01-29-2008, 05:59 PM
Try just googleing the model of your laptop + livecd and scan through the results to find some distro someone has had luck with.

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 06:13 PM
Try just googleing the model of your laptop + livecd and scan through the results to find some distro someone has had luck with.

Thanks for the tip. I will try that tomorrow when I have more time.

RichGem
01-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Thanks for the tip. I will try that tomorrow when I have more time.

Hint: Knoppix.

Gotta give ya props Corey for your determination.

Lynchmeister
01-29-2008, 06:55 PM
Hint: Knoppix.

Gotta give ya props Corey for your determination.

Somehow that one got lost in the shuffle. :rolleyes:

You said that Knoppix can be burned as a live DVD? I'm out of CDs...:blush:

RichGem
01-29-2008, 07:39 PM
Somehow that one got lost in the shuffle. :rolleyes:

You said that Knoppix can be burned as a live DVD? I'm out of CDs...:blush:

There are two versions of knoppix, one is a live cd, the other is a live dvd. Of course, you could burn the cd iso onto a dvd if you wanted, but not the other way around.

gugi
01-29-2008, 11:37 PM
Richard,

I'm not sure why you think knoppix will behave better than ubuntu or mint. Of course there's no harm to try as it's just burning another disk, but that's all.

Corey,

The basic install of ubuntu is very similar to the graphical install, you however have to navigate through ascii menus using the keyboard instad of using the mouse of the GUI install. gparted does resize windows partitions even when they are NTFS, the part that it cannot do is done by windows next time you boot. This is part of the install process. However it may be somewhat less user friendly than grabbing and moving the ends of the partitions of the GUI.
Basically you do not need to remove partitions and reinstalling windows, you can just resize the existing windows partition during the installation process and create new partition(s) in the freed space. I bet there's got to be screenshots with this type of installation.

However if you are not feeling comfortable with this you shouldn't proceed indeed.

I am quite sceptical that knoppix will work. I'd try Fedora instead, as they are the other big player that can (and does) extensively patch the vanilla linux kernels. You already know that your laptop has problems with the latest version of ubuntu (from ubuntu forums) and you've seen the same problems with another debian based distribution. So I'd venture for something different that's not based on debian and that is RedHat.

Confuzius
01-30-2008, 07:14 AM
As much as I'm an ubuntu fan these days I'll be giving fedora a try again when they have a KDE 4.1 build out.

RichGem
01-30-2008, 07:17 AM
gugi: I suggested Knoppix b/c, at least according to many ops that I've read, it still has the best hardware detection going. Being a Fedora man myself, I'd also recommend that, but the live cds of pure fedora are tough to track down last time I looked for one.

jellywerker
01-30-2008, 09:23 AM
If you want to learn how things work, try out Archlinux. The install dumps you into a console and lets you install yourself. It does include an extensive install help file as a guide for your first time/if you get stuck, and the forums are very helpful. The hardware detection is excellent. Prior to using arch I hardly touched the console, now I use it for everything except graphical web browsing and word processing for school papers.

Installing however requires a hard disk that you are ok installing on, there is a live cd (archie) but you don't learn the underlying mechanics by using that, it's more for system restore when your install breaks. Only time I have had an install break is when some major dev changes happened and I failed to alter my config for the changes before I rebooted.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 08:13 AM
*Ahem*

So now with my new Netflix Instant Movie Player fiasco, I have gone and updated my video driver in an attempt to correct the problem. Well, it didn't work.

Then a little light bulb went off in my computer tormented head and I thought to myself, "What the hell?"

I put the old, almost snapped into a million pieces Ubuntu CD into my drive and booted up. Ok, menu screen. Check. Select Install in Text Mode. Check. Wait for F'd up screen. Check. WTF? It's working! :w00t:

So as I continued to go deeper into the installation process, I realized that I wasn't yet prepared to do so. I wanted to try it out as a live CD first, but I didn't see that option on the main menu. Didn't we conclude that this was not in fact a live cd? If not, is anyone feeling ambitious and looking to try this again? :rolleyes:

To restate the goal here for those who have spent a small fortune on counseling in an effort to block the memories (read: me), what I'm looking to do at this point is install Ubuntu 7.10 in a dual boot format with Windows. Posted above, Confuzius laid it out in layman's terms for me, but I'm wondering if re-installing Windows is the only way. Do I need to repartition both or can I give Linux a partition from whatever Windows isn't using? Once it's installed, I'll tackle the wireless from that point.

Thanks again! :lol:

biomesh
02-27-2008, 08:26 AM
If you have a decent amount of disk space left, then linux can use that space. It will install a bootloader(grub) and give you an option to boot windows (most, if not all current distributions will do this automatically).

RichGem
02-27-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm not familiar with Linux Mint specifically, Corey, but +1 on Biomesh. Most linux distros will give you the option to partition and go from the linux installer. DO NOT reinstall windows after you install Linux; that will destroy linux (windows wipes out everything but itself (intentionally) whereas Linux will recognize other OSes and adapt itself at installation).

Congrats tho on getting the video to work!

And don't worry about the counseling; we're here for you. I just hope the hair loss casued at the last attempt regrows quickly. If nothing else, you can tell your friends that you felt so good shaving with a DE that you needed to shave more than just your face. :biggrin:

ps: you could always abort the MINT install and do a ubuntu live cd and see what happens. I don't know if Mint is also a live cd or not.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 09:36 AM
I'm not familiar with Linux Mint specifically, Corey, but +1 on Biomesh. Most linux distros will give you the option to partition and go from the linux installer. DO NOT reinstall windows after you install Linux; that will destroy linux (windows wipes out everything but itself (intentionally) whereas Linux will recognize other OSes and adapt itself at installation).

Congrats tho on getting the video to work!

And don't worry about the counseling; we're here for you. I just hope the hair loss casued at the last attempt regrows quickly. If nothing else, you can tell your friends that you felt so good shaving with a DE that you needed to shave more than just your face. :biggrin:

ps: you could always abort the MINT install and do a ubuntu live cd and see what happens. I don't know if Mint is also a live cd or not.

Isn't this confusing? :lol: I actually can't find the Mint 4.0 live cd, so I'm using the Ubuntu 7.10 (alternate?) cd. What I can tell you is that the Ubuntu disk I have doesn't seem to be a live cd, so I'm gonna just go with it and see what happens...

First, though, I'm going to go through the entire system and make sure that the non-expendable stuff is backed up, then I'll install and hope for the best. Worst case scenario, I have to re-install windows and *God forbid* start rebuilding.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 11:08 AM
Ok, things are all cleaned up and I have 8 gigs free out of a total 18. Here we go...

Can I get a collective finger crossing from all of you? :wink:

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 11:32 AM
Ok, I'm at the partitioning section and I have the following choices:

Guided - resize SCSI2 (0,0,0), partition #2 (sda) and use freed s
Guided - use entire disk <--- I understand that I don't want to use this one
Guided - use the largest continuous free space
Guided - use entire disk and set up LVM <--- probably don't want to use this one either?
Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM <--- again, don't want to use?
Manual

Thanks guys!

biomesh
02-27-2008, 11:40 AM
Guided - use the largest continuous free space

is the safest option. Hopefully there is enough space.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 11:41 AM
Ok, I'm at the partitioning section and I have the following choices:

Guided - resize SCSI2 (0,0,0), partition #2 (sda) and use freed s
Guided - use entire disk <--- I understand that I don't want to use this one
Guided - use the largest continuous free space
Guided - use entire disk and set up LVM <--- probably don't want to use this one either?
Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM <--- again, don't want to use?
Manual

Thanks guys!

FYI - I got impatient and tried the "use the largest continuous free space" option and it didn't work because apparently it wasn't big enough.

biomesh
02-27-2008, 11:43 AM
When you said you cleared up some space, was that just inside windows?

If so, go with the first option.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 11:46 AM
When you said you cleared up some space, was that just inside windows?

If so, go with the first option.

Yes.

Ok, I'll try the first. Thanks!

biomesh
02-27-2008, 11:49 AM
Generally if you are going to start clean you would:

1) Install windows and create a parition for windows using 1/2 to 3/4 of the entire disk
2) Install Linux using the remainder of the disk

Hopefully resizing the partition works and gives you enough space.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 12:17 PM
Generally if you are going to start clean you would:

1) Install windows and create a parition for windows using 1/2 to 3/4 of the entire disk
2) Install Linux using the remainder of the disk

Hopefully resizing the partition works and gives you enough space.

I'm not sure if you would consider this starting clean, but Windows is already installed (not sure what the partition size is...), and I'm not installing linux after it. Your ratios above are what I'm shooting for.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 12:23 PM
Ok, went with the first option. It's now saying that the minimum size I can use is 11.4 GB...I only have about 8GB free...So am I hosed here?

P.s. I'm assuming this is for the Linux partition, correct? It defaulted to 14.5 GB, fwiw.

RichGem
02-27-2008, 12:54 PM
Corey,

I"m playing catch up here, I know, so it's all probably coming too late, but ....

The "alternate" cd, in my understaning, is not a live cd; just install.

It's ok to set up with the LVM option altho I don't use or like it... but what it'll do is treat your drive like one big disk and make virtual disks out of it instead of physical partitions. I stick with physical partitions myself becuase the early days of LVM suffered reliability problems and I didn't feel like redoing my drive. But, from what I understand, there are no issues with LVM these days; many distros default to this option; just as many do not use it. So, the choice is yours.

Using the "largest avail space" option should not be a problem... 8G should be plenty of space. Just be sure you also set up a "linux swap" partition of roughly double your RAM size, but not more than 526M 512M. (bigger won't really harm things, you'll just possibly end up using swap space more than is necesary and it'll be a waste).

biomesh
02-27-2008, 12:56 PM
Even if you had 8GB free on your windows partition, you won't be able to use all of it (and you don't want to) for Linux.

How big is the hard drive?

You should be able to do a fairly minimal install with only a few GB.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 01:08 PM
Even if you had 8GB free on your windows partition, you won't be able to use all of it (and you don't want to) for Linux.

How big is the hard drive?

You should be able to do a fairly minimal install with only a few GB.

The hard drive in total is 18GB, which left me scratching my head. I thought I had more than enough space.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 01:10 PM
Corey,

I"m playing catch up here, I know, so it's all probably coming too late, but ....

The "alternate" cd, in my understaning, is not a live cd; just install.

It's ok to set up with the LVM option altho I don't use or like it... but what it'll do is treat your drive like one big disk and make virtual disks out of it instead of physical partitions. I stick with physical partitions myself becuase the early days of LVM suffered reliability problems and I didn't feel like redoing my drive. But, from what I understand, there are no issues with LVM these days; many distros default to this option; just as many do not use it. So, the choice is yours.

Using the "largest avail space" option should not be a problem... 8G should be plenty of space. Just be sure you also set up a "linux swap" partition of roughly double your RAM size, but not more than 526M 512M. (bigger won't really harm things, you'll just possibly end up using swap space more than is necesary and it'll be a waste).

Rich, unfortunately the largest continuous free space option didn't work. It said I didn't have enough. :confused:

Will the LVM option still be dual bootable with Windows?

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 01:13 PM
Just thought of something. Once I choose the first option and the amount for partitioning, is this for all of the partitions. For example, if I choose "max" will it take the entire disk and then I break it down between window, linux, and a swap?

I'll wait for feedback before I try anything.

Confuzius
02-27-2008, 01:19 PM
Just free space probably wont work, you need an available partition, or unformated free space.
Do you still not have access to a CD burner?
Is windows already installed?

biomesh
02-27-2008, 01:19 PM
From this output:

Guided - resize SCSI2 (0,0,0), partition #2 (sda) and use freed s

sda1 is most likely a support utility partition added by your hardware vendor
sda2 is your windows partition

Which leaves 2 physical partitions for you to work with. The install really shouldn't require 14GB. I'm not sure if you have the option for custom partitioning, but that might help some.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 01:24 PM
Just free space probably wont work, you need an available partition, or unformated free space.
Do you still not have access to a CD burner?
Is windows already installed?

I have access to a burner, but I don't have any blank cd's left...I do have DVDs, though.

Yes, windows is already installed.


From this output:

Guided - resize SCSI2 (0,0,0), partition #2 (sda) and use freed s

sda1 is most likely a support utility partition added by your hardware vendor
sda2 is your windows partition

Which leaves 2 physical partitions for you to work with. The install really shouldn't require 14GB. I'm not sure if you have the option for custom partitioning, but that might help some.

Yes, I have a manual option.

RichGem
02-27-2008, 01:37 PM
Rich, unfortunately the largest continuous free space option didn't work. It said I didn't have enough. :confused:

Will the LVM option still be dual bootable with Windows?


I'm not completely familiar with LVM... but, windows does not understand LVM since it's a linux construct. So, NO, LVM, will not affect windows. But, under LVM (in linux), but also under plain linux partitioning, you may have the option to consider your windows partion as mountable under linux and therefore accessable under linux if you desire.

so, lvm should not affect your ability to dual boot. I think.... sorry, disclaimer there....i just can't swear to it.

EDIT: See warning post below!

biomesh
02-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Since you have a manual option you should be able to use the free disk space and create :

1) a / partition using 6GB free space (for a filesystem you can use ext3, reiserfs, xfs, or jfs)
2) a swap partition (512 MB should be fine)

If you want more than those two partitions then you would need to create an extended partition then use logical partitions underneath. The above setup will at least get you going for now.

RichGem
02-27-2008, 01:43 PM
I just did a quick google Corey.... many are advising to NOT use LVM in a dual boot situation as windows sometimes corrupts the LVM information. Windows should not be able to do this... ever... but apparently it sometimes does.

RichGem
02-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Since you have a manual option you should be able to use the free disk space and create :

1) a / partition using 6GB free space (for a filesystem you can use ext3, reiserfs, xfs, or jfs)
2) a swap partition (512 MB should be fine)

If you want more than those two partitions then you would need to create an extended partition then use logical partitions underneath. The above setup will at least get you going for now.

good advice. There's really no need to set up separate /boot and or /home partitions on a modern system these days, altho it's customary to some extent.

biomesh
02-27-2008, 01:49 PM
good advice. There's really no need to set up separate /boot and or /home partitions on a modern system these days, altho it's customary to some extent.

I normally only advise people to do this if they are going to use this as a server or plan on installing different distributions and want to keep the user data between installs.

Confuzius
02-27-2008, 02:16 PM
*Slightly off topic
Would it be a bad idea to have a separeate /home parition, but formated as NTFS to share between windows also?

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 03:23 PM
I was out running some errands, but back at the computer now. I'm doing a manual partition and here's what I'm looking at:

SCSI2 (0,0,0) (sda) - 20.0 GB ATA IC25N020ATMR04-0
#1 primary 41.1 MB K fat16 /media/sda1
#2 primary 20.0 GB B K ntfs /media/sda2
pri/log 8.2 MB FREE SPACE


My limited knowledge is telling me that windows (ntfs) is using 20GB. I'm at a loss as to what to do from here because the "Help on partitioning" section told me that repartitioning will delete existing data. So now I'm scared to do anything. :confused:

biomesh
02-27-2008, 03:25 PM
Yeah, the best way to do this would be to start over and repartition the hard drive. Create a 10 GB Partition for windows and reinstall windows. Then go ahead and install linux using the rest of the space.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 03:39 PM
Yeah, the best way to do this would be to start over and repartition the hard drive. Create a 10 GB Partition for windows and reinstall windows. Then go ahead and install linux using the rest of the space.

Grrr...I was afraid it would come to this. If there is no other alternative, I'm gonna have to put this one on the back burner again for now. I'm really prepared to get that deep into it. By that I mean having to spend another 12 hours (literally) on the phone with Tech Support trying to get my wireless connection up and running again.

Thanks for all the help, though!

RichGem
02-27-2008, 04:20 PM
Grrr...I was afraid it would come to this. If there is no other alternative, I'm gonna have to put this one on the back burner again for now. I'm really prepared to get that deep into it. By that I mean having to spend another 12 hours (literally) on the phone with Tech Support trying to get my wireless connection up and running again.

Thanks for all the help, though!


Two points...

1. Corey... congrats on becoming an official sadist. You definitely get the persistence award. OH VEY, I can't imagine Linux eery being this much of a pain! But, laptops are laptops and Dell is Dell. But, I imagine at this point that you're now determined to get this working no matter the cost.

2. most linux partioners will now allow you to resize partions (therefore, do not have to reinstall). I don't know what MINT or Ubuntu use specifically, but it should be an option. If not, look for a distro call gparted live... it's a distro which just repartions drives or boot to "safe mode" and try gparted from there.

rabidpotatochip
02-27-2008, 04:39 PM
Jeez guys... I'm gone for one day and this is what you do? :tongue:

Ubuntu uses gparted for partition management. Since NTFS got cracked a few years go you can nondestructively resize your Windows partition, but make a backup first just in case I've given you crappy advice. :wink:

biomesh
02-27-2008, 04:44 PM
If you do go the route of the gparted live cd, just make sure you leave some extra space on you windows partition. You mentioned you had 8 GB free, so leave 2GB of breathing room for windows. Then you can use 5.5 GB for the / partition and use 500 MB for swap.

RichGem
02-27-2008, 04:55 PM
Jeez guys... I'm gone for one day and this is what you do? :tongue:

Ubuntu uses gparted for partition management. Since NTFS got cracked a few years go you can nondestructively resize your Windows partition, but make a backup first just in case I've given you crappy advice. :wink:


Sorry, Chip. Didn't mean to have fun without you. :biggrin: Poor Corey, by the end of this he'll either be happy and relieved or bald and depressed. Thankfully, it sound like Mrs. Corey is giving him lotsa computer time.

Lynchmeister
02-27-2008, 07:26 PM
Two points...

1. Corey... congrats on becoming an official sadist. You definitely get the persistence award. OH VEY, I can't imagine Linux eery being this much of a pain! But, laptops are laptops and Dell is Dell. But, I imagine at this point that you're now determined to get this working no matter the cost.

2. most linux partioners will now allow you to resize partions (therefore, do not have to reinstall). I don't know what MINT or Ubuntu use specifically, but it should be an option. If not, look for a distro call gparted live... it's a distro which just repartions drives or boot to "safe mode" and try gparted from there.


Jeez guys... I'm gone for one day and this is what you do? :tongue:

Ubuntu uses gparted for partition management. Since NTFS got cracked a few years go you can nondestructively resize your Windows partition, but make a backup first just in case I've given you crappy advice. :wink:


If you do go the route of the gparted live cd, just make sure you leave some extra space on you windows partition. You mentioned you had 8 GB free, so leave 2GB of breathing room for windows. Then you can use 5.5 GB for the / partition and use 500 MB for swap.


Sorry, Chip. Didn't mean to have fun without you. :biggrin: Poor Corey, by the end of this he'll either be happy and relieved or bald and depressed. Thankfully, it sound like Mrs. Corey is giving him lotsa computer time.

Yay! I'm a sadist! :w00t:

I'm happy to hear about the gparted thing and I understand that this is already a part of Ubuntu? So...if I manually partition, it should theoretically do everything behind the scenes and not cause all hell to break loose? Also thanks for the tip to give windows room to grow.

Mrs. Cory was at work and I had the day off. :blush: You know...that whole spiel about idle minds being the Devils playground. :lol:

RichGem
02-27-2008, 07:37 PM
Yay! I'm a sadist! :w00t:

I'm happy to hear about the gparted thing and I understand that this is already a part of Ubuntu? So...if I manually partition, it should theoretically do everything behind the scenes and not cause all hell to break loose? Also thanks for the tip to give windows room to grow.


Yes, with heavy emphasis on the theoretically part. But, you may want to run gparted separately to set up the partitions you want and then do the install routine. That seems the safer, and less theoretical, approach.


Mrs. Cory was at work and I had the day off. :blush: You know...that whole spiel about idle minds being the Devils playground. :lol:

At least you did something relatively harmless with your devils' playground... unlike say.. .invent a new way to shave one's back with a DE or str8. :eek::eek::eek:

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 05:44 AM
Yes, with heavy emphasis on the theoretically part. But, you may want to run gparted separately to set up the partitions you want and then do the install routine. That seems the safer, and less theoretical, approach.


At least you did something relatively harmless with your devils' playground... unlike say.. .invent a new way to shave one's back with a DE or str8. :eek::eek::eek:

Silly question, but how do you run gparted separately? Is that something that I can be walked through online without too much hassle?

Also, I'm greenlighting the whole project again. I was hesitant yesterday, because I was worried about screwing up my existing wireless network. While I was at work one day, my wife literally spent 12 painstaking hours on the phone with LinkSys Tech Support and any disruption to to our (currently) happy network would probably be grounds for divorce. :eek: Last night, though, I was thinking about it a bit more critically and I realized that the only thing I could break is my laptop. The wireless was set up with a physical connection, so any Joe Schmoe with a laptop can access my WiFi if they have the WEP key. Therefore, if I blow up the laptop, I can alway reinstall Windows, install the wireless software, and *hopefully* be back up and running.

It's funny, but I always jump back into this quagmire on my last day off. Now my head is wrapped around it again and I'm back at work for the next three days, taking breaks only to drive home, eat, sleep, and repeat.

biomesh
02-28-2008, 05:57 AM
You can download the gparted live ISO image (http://gparted-livecd.tuxfamily.org/download.php), burn it to a cd, and boot off of it.

Be sure to read the documentation on resizing a partition (http://gparted-livecd.tuxfamily.org/larry/resize/resizing.htm).

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 07:27 AM
Thanks, Robert!

RichGem
02-28-2008, 07:41 AM
You can download the gparted live ISO image (http://gparted-livecd.tuxfamily.org/download.php), burn it to a cd, and boot off of it.

Be sure to read the documentation on resizing a partition (http://gparted-livecd.tuxfamily.org/larry/resize/resizing.htm).

what he said.

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 12:34 PM
I just found a great thread dealing specifically with installing Ubuntu 7.10 on a Dell Inspiron 1100. Can I ask someone to read this thread (http://tennessee.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=608481) and take a stab at the following questions?

To clarify, I will be burning a new copy of the LiveCD and not using the ALTERNATE CD like have been in the past.

1. Assuming this works, installing after windows (which is currently installed) will give me the dual boot set-up I'm looking for, correct?

2. Will there be a GUI based partitioning tool during install? If not, can I fall back on our original plan of using gparted?

3. Under the Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: section, #3 says to: "Type 'sudo su' to become root in the terminal window." Isn't becoming root like playing with Linux fire so to speak? Is this advisable for a 200&#37; noob?

Also, I'm going to hard wire the laptop to the router for now and worry about wireless after I'm installed, up, and running. Fingers crossed!

You guys rock!

RichGem
02-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Plain text is Corey's original... Bold text is my (RichGem's) answer.


I just found a great thread dealing specifically with installing Ubuntu 7.10 on a Dell Inspiron 1100. Can I ask someone to read this thread (http://tennessee.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=608481) and take a stab at the following questions?

To clarify, I will be burning a new copy of the LiveCD and not using the ALTERNATE CD like have been in the past.

1. Assuming this works, installing after windows (which is currently installed) will give me the dual boot set-up I'm looking for, correct?

yes, presumably.

2. Will there be a GUI based partitioning tool during install? If not, can I fall back on our original plan of using gparted?

probably. and yes.

3. Under the Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: section, #3 says to: "Type 'sudo su' to become root in the terminal window." Isn't becoming root like playing with Linux fire so to speak? Is this advisable for a 200&#37; noob?

Becoming root *can be* playing with fire. however, it is also just plain necessary for doing certain things. So long as you don't try to delete anything, you'll be fine. also doing a 'sudo su' will only run that particular command (that follows the 'su' part) as root. just be sure to type the commands carefully. linux commands, as you may have noticed, are often 2 or 3 letters long; therefore easy to mistype if you're touch typing, for .ex.



Also, I'm going to hard wire the laptop to the router for now and worry about wireless after I'm installed, up, and running. Fingers crossed!

If your wireless is hardwired, linux should automatically detect your ethernet card, do dhcp and have everything good to go once you get a desktop. you may also have to do it all manually just once. i'm not sure how ubuntu reacts.

RichGem
02-28-2008, 12:56 PM
Corey...

Just in case you should get discouraged, remember: back in the olden days (ie: the early '90s), there was no such thing as a distro. You had to compile everything by yourself (after compiling and installing the kernel) and then had to configure everything manually by editing a gagillion text files. And everything had to be compiled in the correct (and often "secret") order otherwise, no go.

Often, a multi-day process. Thank God for progress!

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 01:16 PM
Thanks for the quick response, Richard.

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 01:26 PM
Another question that just popped up. If I were to burn a live cd onto a DVD, would it function the same? I'm out of CDs, but have a large supply of cheap non-rewritable dvds, so this could save me not only a trip, but also some cigar/beer money for this weekend.

RichGem
02-28-2008, 01:39 PM
Another question that just popped up. If I were to burn a live cd onto a DVD, would it function the same? I'm out of CDs, but have a large supply of cheap non-rewritable dvds, so this could save me not only a trip, but also some cigar/beer money for this weekend.

CD vs. DVD = NBD (no big deal). Both are ISO 9660 filesystem and will function the same. Just don't try to save a DVD amount of information onto a CD; it just won't work. But the reverse won't be a problem. The system shouldn't even notice the difference. (think of it as the difference between using a single density 5.25 floppy vs. a double density one. -- hmm, I think I just dated myself on that one.)

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 01:42 PM
Thanks. I had figured as much, but with the things have been going, anything's possible!

RichGem
02-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Thanks. I had figured as much, but with the things have been going, anything's possible!

I'd have the same fear. One thing you learn early on when it comes to computers is that the manual vs. reality are two different things 95% of the time. But, you do learn a lot, one way or the other with Linux especially.

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 02:39 PM
Hehe, I just can't let this go. Another question while I'm thinking about it.

In this thread (http://tennessee.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=608481) I'm looking in post #1 under Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: and I need the following clarification:

I've decided against editing with vi. Does this command (sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf) from post 11 substitute steps 4-5 under Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: in post 1?

Man, I hope that's not too confusing...

rabidpotatochip
02-28-2008, 02:56 PM
Hehe, I just can't let this go. Another question while I'm thinking about it.

In this thread (http://tennessee.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=608481) I'm looking in post #1 under Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: and I need the following clarification:

I've decided against editing with vi. Does this command (sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf) from post 11 substitute steps 4-5 under Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: in post 1?

Man, I hope that's not too confusing...

Yes, that will basically substitute steps 4-5. You can also use nano if gedit isn't to your liking.

(Man, these workshops are killing me... I have like a hundred e-mails to go through when I'm back at the office.)

RichGem
02-28-2008, 02:58 PM
Hehe, I just can't let this go. Another question while I'm thinking about it.

In this thread (http://tennessee.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?t=608481) I'm looking in post #1 under Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: and I need the following clarification:

I've decided against editing with vi. Does this command (sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf) from post 11 substitute steps 4-5 under Run Ubuntu 7.10 Setup from CD: in post 1?

Man, I hope that's not too confusing...

Corey...
I'm running out the door to get home, so I can't read the full thread right now. HOwever, "gedit" is a text editor just as "vi" is a text editor. Gedit is graphical whereas vi is text-based. Basically, 2 diff progs that do the same thing.

Will read up more later and respond as needed.

Lynchmeister
02-28-2008, 03:18 PM
Yes, that will basically substitute steps 4-5. You can also use nano if gedit isn't to your liking.

(Man, these workshops are killing me... I have like a hundred e-mails to go through when I'm back at the office.)

I'm pleased to see where I rank on your list of priorities! :lol: Also thanks for the clarification!


Corey...
I'm running out the door to get home, so I can't read the full thread right now. HOwever, "gedit" is a text editor just as "vi" is a text editor. Gedit is graphical whereas vi is text-based. Basically, 2 diff progs that do the same thing.

Will read up more later and respond as needed.

Thanks Richard!

rabidpotatochip
02-28-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm pleased to see where I rank on your list of priorities! :lol: Also thanks for the clarification!


:lol: "Help Corey Install Linux" is not a workshop. I was at bioenergy workshops yesterday and today, and get to go on a lovely tour of some sites tomorrow. You should be proud though, responding to your question was the second thing I did when I stopped in at the office. :biggrin:

RichGem
02-28-2008, 04:35 PM
:lol: "Help Corey Install Linux" is not a workshop. I was at bioenergy workshops yesterday and today, and get to go on a lovely tour of some sites tomorrow. You should be proud though, responding to your question was the second thing I did when I stopped in at the office. :biggrin:


True. "Help Core Install Linux" is, in fact, the thread that will kill the internet (ie: life as we know it). LOL. But, Corey's being a great sport about it too. By now, I'd have investigated the precise physics governing laptop trajectories as related to the tensile strength of transparent silicate-based structures.

OTOH, maybe we have some shaving goods heading our way if it all works (heeheehee)... I mean... what's a workshop without door prizes??? :tongue_sm

RichGem
02-28-2008, 04:39 PM
:lol: "Help Corey Install Linux" is not a workshop. I was at bioenergy workshops yesterday and today, and get to go on a lovely tour of some sites tomorrow. You should be proud though, responding to your question was the second thing I did when I stopped in at the office. :biggrin:



Gee, I hope that wasn't as deadly boring as it sounds.

rabidpotatochip
02-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Gee, I hope that wasn't as deadly boring as it sounds.

You know what? It was actually fascinating. I learned a lot about different biofuel options, including why corn ethanol is crap (0.4:1 output to input ratio). :biggrin:

Besides, this'll probably be my area of expertise in another year or two, so I have to catch up. :tongue:

Edit: Oh yeah, tomorrow I get to see a gasification unit that can obliterate any organic matter. I also learned that a good compost pile can dissolve almost an entire animal carcass in three days; everything but the fur.

RichGem
02-28-2008, 05:43 PM
You know what? It was actually fascinating. I learned a lot about different biofuel options, including why corn ethanol is crap (0.4:1 output to input ratio). :biggrin:

Besides, this'll probably be my area of expertise in another year or two, so I have to catch up. :tongue:

Edit: Oh yeah, tomorrow I get to see a gasification unit that can obliterate any organic matter. I also learned that a good compost pile can dissolve almost an entire animal carcass in three days; everything but the fur.

Well... I guess if you ever need to dispose of a body and don't mind a little left over fur.... ya know, 3 days, that's actually kinda frightening. Don't tell the Canadian mob (not that there's any such thing as the mob ... anywhere).

edit: I didn't know that about corn eth. Interesting. and not quite the "savior" it is often advertised to be.

gugi
02-28-2008, 09:40 PM
talk about being late to the party - it's interesting to read the history though :)

and I should say that the proper definition for Corey is not 'sadist' but 'masochist', or at least a combination of the two.

my thoughts:

0) good thinking on Corey's part about using gedit instead of vi. vi is not for the faint of heart.
1) no responses after presumably issuing that sudo command - sounds like trouble
2) I am surprised that first option in the repartitioning didn't work - basically it reads that it should shrink your windows partition to something smaller (presumably you can choose the size) and then use the newly freed space to create whatever linux needs. I recently installed 7.10 and it makes good choices.
3) Using gparted CD/DVD to just prepare the space first shouldn't be a problem and may go much more smoothly.
4) I thought you had found that installation guide before. Basically all it does is an extra step. That step does a correction on the video info that the Live CD has guessed wrongly so that the installation can continue properly despite the initial confusion. Using the alternative CD which does not include the LIVE part I thought was supposed to be the another option that people have successfully used on your model of DELL.
5) Corey, if you know ahead of time when you are going to be trying it next, and you have access to the other computer at the same time, I'm sure that a chat session will be quite more efficient. Let us know, I'll be willing to help you if I'm available, perhaps somebody else will too.

I guess I'll check on this tomorrow. Good luck with the S&M.

RichGem
02-29-2008, 05:32 AM
talk about being late to the party - it's interesting to read the history though :)

and I should say that the proper definition for Corey is not 'sadist' but 'masochist', or at least a combination of the two.

<snip>

I guess I'll check on this tomorrow. Good luck with the S&M.

My bad. I do, in fact, know the difference.

Lynchmeister
02-29-2008, 06:39 AM
talk about being late to the party - it's interesting to read the history though :)

and I should say that the proper definition for Corey is not 'sadist' but 'masochist', or at least a combination of the two.

Correction: Yay! I'm a Sado-Masochist...because I must be deriving some type of pleasure by inflicting so much pain on myself and others. :biggrin:


1) no responses after presumably issuing that sudo command - sounds like trouble

Do you mean no responses from me? If so, I haven't done anything new yet after I tried to install the Alternate CD and ran into partitioning problems.


3) Using gparted CD/DVD to just prepare the space first shouldn't be a problem and may go much more smoothly.

I'm very close to just doing this right off the bat...


4) I thought you had found that installation guide before. Basically all it does is an extra step. That step does a correction on the video info that the Live CD has guessed wrongly so that the installation can continue properly despite the initial confusion. Using the alternative CD which does not include the LIVE part I thought was supposed to be the another option that people have successfully used on your model of DELL.

Theoretically (<--that's the new buzz word for this thread) I could repartition with gparted and then install using the alternate cd, but I figured, I'm in this deep, so I'll re-burn the lost Ubuntu live cd, hardwire the damn laptop, play around with Ubuntu in a live environment, make sure I like what I see, then go through with a live install (with crossed fingers).


5) Corey, if you know ahead of time when you are going to be trying it next, and you have access to the other computer at the same time, I'm sure that a chat session will be quite more efficient. Let us know, I'll be willing to help you if I'm available, perhaps somebody else will too.

Great suggestion! I'm at work until 6:30pm tonight, then I have a half hour commute, then I have to get up at 4am tomorrow for one more day of work so tonight I'm gonna lay low. I'm planning on tackling this again tomorrow after work and after a cigar and a drink, so I'll check into the chat room around 8pm CST.


Good luck with the S&M.

Thanks! We're in full swing! :tongue_sm

rabidpotatochip
02-29-2008, 07:18 PM
Thanks! We're in full swing! :tongue_sm

Whoa there partner... I never signed up for anything involving swings!

RichGem
02-29-2008, 07:26 PM
Whoa there partner... I never signed up for anything involving swings!


Well, it is one way to guarantee that "Summer breeze". :lol::lol::lol:

edit: Just thought I'd point out that we're up to 213 posts in this thread.

rabidpotatochip
02-29-2008, 07:34 PM
Well, it is one way to guarantee that "Summer breeze". :lol::lol::lol:

edit: Just thought I'd point out that we're up to 213 posts in this thread.

:lol: True enough.

Regarding your edit, I guess that makes us sadists. :tongue:

Lynchmeister
02-29-2008, 08:02 PM
Well, it is one way to guarantee that "Summer breeze". :lol::lol::lol:

edit: Just thought I'd point out that we're up to 213 posts in this thread.

Let's do like Kramer and that crazy Saab salesman and see how far we can take her on a tank of gas!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

RichGem
02-29-2008, 08:08 PM
:lol: True enough.

Regarding your edit, I guess that makes us sadists. :tongue:

Or, at least really effective enablers. :cool:

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 08:38 AM
Tonight's the big night. We'll either be putting this baby to bed, or I'll once again be reduced down to a broken, babbling little man carrying on in jibberish about gparted this and ndiswrapper that...

...luckily my wife won't be there to witness it. :biggrin:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 09:24 AM
Tonight's the big night. We'll either be putting this baby to bed, or I'll once again be reduced down to a broken, babbling little man carrying on in jibberish about gparted this and ndiswrapper that...

...luckily my wife won't be there to witness it. :biggrin:

Oh, come now, let the wife witness it. Every breakdown needs at least one witness at least to remind you of what you missed when you get better. :001_rolle

Seriously, good luck. Now get to work! :a53: <-- official Corey s-m enabler smiley.

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 09:38 AM
Oh, come now, let the wife witness it. Every breakdown needs at least one witness at least to remind you of what you missed when you get better. :001_rolle

Seriously, good luck. Now get to work! :a53: <-- official Corey s-m enabler smiley.

:lol: I'm at work right now. You can't be serious! :wink:

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 09:40 AM
Oh, come now, let the wife witness it. Every breakdown needs at least one witness at least to remind you of what you missed when you get better. :001_rolle

Seriously, good luck. Now get to work! :a53: <-- official Corey s-m enabler smiley.

I was gonna make a clever remark about this and maybe even troll the internet for a suitable image to attach for effect, but then I remembered...I'm at work. :lol:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 10:02 AM
LOL @ Corey... I meant get to work on installing Linux. We all know that we don't "work" at work.

Looking forward to the comments and image when appropriate.

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 10:05 AM
Oh, come now, let the wife witness it. Every breakdown needs at least one witness at least to remind you of what you missed when you get better. :001_rolle

Seriously, good luck. Now get to work! :a53: <-- official Corey s-m enabler smiley.

:lol: If I were a mod you'd so have a custom title right now.

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 10:18 AM
LOL @ Corey... I meant get to work on installing Linux. We all know that we don't "work" at work.

Good. I'm glad you're picking up what I'm putting down :wink:

Looking forward to the comments and image when appropriate.

Hmm...somehow I don't think those images would be appropriate at any time. :lol:


:lol: If I were a mod you'd so have a custom title right now.

No, they caught that. See? :w00t:

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 10:23 AM
Speaking of S&M enablization, though, I was just putzting on YouTube and got a load of the eye candy that is Compiz fusion. Me likey...:death:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 10:40 AM
Speaking of S&M enablization, though, I was just putzting on YouTube and got a load of the eye candy that is Compiz fusion. Me likey...:death:


Compiz is gorgeous looking however, I've read that it can be a "female dog" to set up if not enabled by default by your distro. It also needs the latest and greatest graphics cards (with lotsa video mem and/or a co-processor) to pull off without being horribly slow and clunky.

RichGem
03-01-2008, 10:42 AM
:lol: If I were a mod you'd so have a custom title right now.

While, "overly vigilant" isn't the most exciting title, I'm not so sure that "Corey's s&m enabler" is better. lol. And in any case, you Chip, are equally guilty of that title. :tongue: :lol:

Edit: Actually, I'm pretty certain that "Corey's enabler" is, in fact, worse. Sorry Corey.
Edit2: And we won't even *think* about what his Mrs. would have to say about it.

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 10:58 AM
While, "overly vigilant" isn't the most exciting title, I'm not so sure that "Corey's s&m enabler" is better. lol. And in any case, you Chip, are equally guilty of that title. :tongue: :lol:

Edit: Actually, I'm pretty certain that "Corey's enabler" is, in fact, worse. Sorry Corey.
Edit2: And we won't even *think* about what his Mrs. would have to say about it.

I'm already on my second one... I don't think there's room for it to get much worse. :tongue:

Ah well, back into the thread... I'll be able to give some help tonight as well, or at least I'll try my hardest. I'm just going to be typing in my notes from the last three days, so unless I end up successfully hijacking my wife's laptop I'll be here to help.

RichGem
03-01-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm already on my second one... I don't think there's room for it to get much worse. :tongue:

Ah well, back into the thread... I'll be able to give some help tonight as well, or at least I'll try my hardest. I'm just going to be typing in my notes from the last three days, so unless I end up successfully hijacking my wife's laptop I'll be here to help.


And I can't get that HORRIBLE song out of my head every time I see one of your posts!


I should be around tonight as well.

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 12:03 PM
And I can't get that HORRIBLE song out of my head every time I see one of your posts!

I know... it was on perma-loop the first 48 hours... I need to say/do something stupid(er) to get it changed.

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:07 PM
I know... it was on perma-loop the first 48 hours... I need to say/do something stupid(er) to get it changed.

The only place to go from here, is down. So, seriously, don't start any threads about manpris, mandals, murses, or merms (or manziers).

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 12:08 PM
Compiz is gorgeous looking however, I've read that it can be a "female dog" to set up if not enabled by default by your distro. It also needs the latest and greatest graphics cards (with lotsa video mem and/or a co-processor) to pull off without being horribly slow and clunky.

I think I'll let that sleeping dog lie. I saw "video" and tears started welling in my eyes. :tongue_sm


Ah well, back into the thread... I'll be able to give some help tonight as well, or at least I'll try my hardest. I'm just going to be typing in my notes from the last three days, so unless I end up successfully hijacking my wife's laptop I'll be here to help.


I should be around tonight as well.


Awesome!

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 12:09 PM
The only place to go from here, is down. So, seriously, don't start any threads about manpris, mandals, murses, or merms (or manziers).

Bro!

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:10 PM
See the curtains hangin' in the window, in the evenin' on a Friday night.
A little light a-shinin' through the window, lets me know everything is alright.
Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind.
Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind.

See the paper layin' in the sidewalk, a little music from the house next door.
So I walked on up to the doorstep, through the screen and across the floor.
Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind.
Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind.

Sweet days of summer, the jasmine's in bloom. July is dressed up and playing her tune.
And I come home from a hard day's work, and you're waiting there, not a care in the world.
See the smile a-waitin' in the kitchen, food cookin' and the plates for two.
See the arms that reach out to hold me, in the evening when the day is through.
Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind.
Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind.

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:11 PM
Bro!

brazier for men = manzier!

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:12 PM
I think I'll let that sleeping dog lie. I saw "video" and tears started welling in my eyes. :tongue_sm





Awesome!

no doubt accompanied by that feeling which precedes the "fight or flight" choice of the same instinct.

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 12:20 PM
brazier for men = manzier!

Just remember, Richard, you forced my hand. :lol:

PqsRB9kEYEU

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 12:22 PM
Bro!

Nah...too ethnic.

:lol::lol:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:41 PM
I shall not give up so easily! (cartoon bad guy laugh)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=smXTvyTz1Eo

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 12:42 PM
I'm sorry, but I've gotta go with "Bro".

Manzier just sounds wrong... :tongue:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:44 PM
I'm sorry, but I've gotta go with "Bro".

Manzier just sounds wrong... :tongue:

so do manpri, merm, murse, etc. We need to be consistent after all. lol.

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 12:50 PM
I shall not give up so easily! (cartoon bad guy laugh)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=smXTvyTz1Eo

:lol:<----this little guy does NOT do justice at the moment!

I just solicited a lot of wierd looks from co-workers. :001_rolle

RichGem
03-01-2008, 12:51 PM
:lol:<----this little guy does NOT do justice at the moment!

I just solicited a lot of wierd looks from co-workers. :001_rolle

ROTFLMAO ! Glad I gave you a laugh.

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 12:52 PM
ROTFLMAO ! Glad I gave you a laugh.

I'll still getting spontaneous bouts of chuckles...kinda like aftershocks after an earthquake. :tongue:

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 01:17 PM
Hrm... Rich's video spawned an idea... either of you have Quake or Unreal Tournament? Maybe the debate could be settled with some kind of deathmatch.

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 01:30 PM
Hrm... Rich's video spawned an idea... either of you have Quake or Unreal Tournament? Maybe the debate could be settled with some kind of deathmatch.

:nonod:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 01:36 PM
:nonod:

ditto. not available for Linux and I don't have a good enough video card to handle it anyhow.

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 02:21 PM
*sigh* So much for that idea... :frown:

I was talking the originals, though, so system specs wouldn't be much of a concern. :wink:

Lynchmeister
03-01-2008, 02:38 PM
*sigh* So much for that idea... :frown:

I was talking the originals, though, so system specs wouldn't be much of a concern. :wink:

How 'bout Rock 'em, Sock 'em robots? :w00t:

RichGem
03-01-2008, 02:46 PM
How 'bout Rock 'em, Sock 'em robots? :w00t:

:woot: I loved that toy!

rabidpotatochip
03-01-2008, 02:54 PM
How 'bout Rock 'em, Sock 'em robots? :w00t:

That'd be awesome! :biggrin: