Once Posted Does B&B Own My Words?

[Antique Hoosier]

Simple as that...if I post a comment in a thread and it does not violate any of the terms and conditions of Badger & Blade, would not be considered by a large majority of gentlemen to be malicious or a false statement but merely an opinion that states facts as to my experiences,.... can this "post" be wholesale deleted by the owners/moderators of B&B.

I won't be so obscure by stating that I am refering to the Joel/Robert Williams "Dust Up" and comments that I made IN REFERENCE to Joel's REVIEW as was the intention of creating the thread in the first place. In reference to the REVIEW, I mentioned that as a professional Auctioneer and Antiques dealer/Appraiser I have been fortunate to meet many artists and craftsmen that are periphreal to that business....and that the charm and nature of their craft is that their items are not slick, sleek, machine made items but rather have character.

So.... do Joel, Nick, et all "own" my words once posted and can they delete, change, edit, and remove any and all posts as they wish?

I frankly don't see what was wrong with my response to a Review of an item?! Isn't that what the whole concept of B&B is about?:confused:

[redbike]

Mike,

I think the short answer is yes.

jim

[Morydd]

I would say that as owners of the forum, they have the right to allow or disallow any content they see fit, however selective editing is, at the very least, unethical.

That said, as far as "ownership" when you create a work (which includes any writing) you own the copyright to that work automatically. As there is no licensing language in the site agreement, nothing about posting it on a public forum changes that fact. You may post the same content anywhere you like, and under whatever terms you like, and no one else can without your permission. That's the basic legal side of it, and I'm not a lawyer, so I could be off.

Again there are ethical considerations within any community that will affect what is, and is not acceptable within that community as well and that must be determined by the community.

[Trev1960]

Mike I am sure that you are free to express your view at any time here. As long as the admins agree. Seems like there has been way too may editing and deleting going on, we the users are the forum.

Terry

[Jim]

Mike,

I don't know if you read what was posted in that thread after your post or not,it included personal attacks, name calling and other in-appropriate comments, additionally VENDORS are not allowed to argue with any member here, they are free to make a clarification but in this case it was not even close to the line. I would assume that your post was in the middle of the pruning of inappropriate material and if left my not have made sense in the context of what was left or the thread was prunned from where it went "bad". This is a non commercial site- the freedom to post a review without getting beat up by the vendor is paramount, we owe no vendor any due. I would say in closing- how much fun would this place be if every review had an argument in it and the reviewer was beat up? I hope this post was helpful Mike.

[Jim]

Mike I am sure that you are free to express your view at any time here. As long as the admins agree. Seems like there has been way too may editing and deleting going on, we the users are the forum.

Terry

Terry,
Take some great photos of your two razors and post up your own review. Please contact me if you need any technical assistance in doing so. I look forward to the review.

[Dr. Mike]

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on television . . .
No, but in all seriousness, I would think that posting on this forum is a lot like making a statement in public. There is no expectation of privacy, so anybody who reads what you post can quote it, whatever. As far as removing posts, it is probably entirely within the discretion of those to whom this forum belongs. Theoretically, the moderators should be able to allow whatever they want and remove whatever they want. In practice, I imagine that there is some thought that goes in to deciding general rules for disallowing posts, as well as specific instances where a particular post, or a particular individual, are removed. Their goal is a successful forum. If their level of discretion in removing posts and posters reaches a tipping point where it is driving more people away than it is drawing in, then it is not in their best interest. I don't know whether this is a money-maker, a break even, or a money-losing venture for them, but whichever scenario, in my mind they are trying to make it as successful as they can manage. I'm sure some toes will get stepped on. Even if there were only two people on this entire earth, eventually they would find some way to irk each other sooner or later.
Somebody else in another post made a good point. This new style of interaction, where only words are exchanged, and no face-to-face communication is required, sometimes results in people being more brazen than they otherwise would be. I know I have at times been that way, particularly in some of the political discussions I have engaged in in the Barber Shop (although in person I can be just as outspoken). As a result, I think tempers fly a little bit more than otherwise, because merely seeing something typewritten without looking the other person in the eye can result in more misunderstandings. As a result, I think that somewhat stricter regulations are not entirely unwarranted to keep things civil.
You get what you want out of this forum. I am one of those individuals who only benefits from this forum, as I have not made any financial contributions to it whatsoever (sorry, funds are not yet in overabundance). Somebody else has gone to a lot of trouble to put together a forum that is one of the easiest to navigate that I have seen, has tons of useful information, and has allowed me to meet a great many people who are always ready to offer a cheerful piece of advice on any question I pose here. And all of that free of charge. I don't see that much of a downside of the moderators pruning the tree from time to time, even if it means some of my stuff gets pruned.

[joch]

So.... do Joel, Nick, et all "own" my words once posted and can they delete, change, edit, and remove any and all posts as they wish?

I frankly don't see what was wrong with my response to a Review of an item?! Isn't that what the whole concept of B&B is about?:confused:

Question for the mods: once I post a message here, do I retain ownership of it or does the site acquire ownership (and perhaps copyrights) of all published material? Just curious. Are there any guidelines posted that cover this subject? I looked, but could not find any. Thanks for your answer.

[rabidpotatochip]

So.... do Joel, Nick, et all "own" my words once posted and can they delete, change, edit, and remove any and all posts as they wish?

I don't really know the other half of this one so I'll try to stay neutral. No, they don't own your words, but you are posting them in a public forum; the right to remove them or modify them to fit the set standard is reserved. The moderators are given the power to delete or change posts that don't agree with what the owners believe this site is about and you're given permission to post here, not the right. I've had a post deleted and I thought it was an innocent one, but life went on; I'm still here 600 posts later.

I think if this site turned into an overzealous mod-fest there would be considerably less people here, same if it turned into "omgwtfbbq ur all n00bz!!!11"; it's hard to draw that line in the sand and sometimes people on either side will disagree on whether the right decision was made. With the number of members here some toes will definitely get stepped on, but overall they must be doing something right for the majority to keep coming back.

[Jim]

Gents,
The ownership of content has been discussed before in great depth, if you do a search for it you can come up with plenty of reading.The terms of use (http://www.badgerandblade.com/index.php?page=terms) at the bottom of each page also speak to it.

I think the overriding issue from "management's perspective" is that a post from B&B not be used in a commercial way, for an example an advertisement proclaiming XYZ soap is the greatest,read about it at the B&B- is a problem. Of course you can run an advertisement XYZ soap is the greatest.

In my time at the B&B 99% of all our problems have been commercial in nature,meaning someone from outside B&B wants to use B&B to make money.
It has manifested itself in many ways,pimping auctions on Ebay,selling books,referrals to other for profit websites,plain old spam and disenfranchised vendors actively seeking to sabotage the B&B... I think you see what we are up against here. Always ask yourself -who profits from this?

[joel]

Well - let's clarify a few things.

1.) I would have prefer the RW thread stay up unmolested and if it were up to me, it would have. Things are done by the GROUP, no by individuals, and it was felt that it was just a downhill spiral - and was wildly off topic. Look at the title of the thread.... it's a review discussion thread for a 10/8th's razor of mine, which I have, use and enjoy. All the riff raff that went on had nothing to do with the topic, and was very much off topic, and i'll readily admit - it was thrown off topic by yours truly. :redface: Frankly - the thread was off topic, in poor form, and degraded to personal insults. Members posts here are VERY much respected, and are very seldom messed with. Keep one thing in mind.... take a look at how many total post are on B&B, then all the other shaving forums, and write the numbers down, then come back and do the same thing 24 hours later. Subtract the new (larger) number, from the old (smaller) number from 24 hours prior, and 9 times out of 10, B&B has significantly more posts than all the other forums COMBINED. Are there going to be more posts edited, etc on B&B? Absolutely, as there are significantly more posts made here. One thing to keep in mind, some of the longest standing moderators here are moderators at the other shaving forums as well. We have mods who serve on SMF, SRP and mens essentials forum - so you're not getting treated ANY differently than any other forum, period. In fact if you were to pm them, and ask them one on one - I'm almost certain they'd tell you they are the most lax on B&B. You'd be stunned (I mean really stunned) if you saw how much goes on behind the scenes to keep B&B running smoothly, and we try to make a concerted effort to keep the overall mood here up, happy, fun and informative. Please though - keep one thing in mind.... when it's all said and done - there are two people who are personally liable for the posts/content on B&B - and that's Nick and I. If there are inappropriate posts, libelous posts, etc - we're the ones who are threatened, and have to deal with the backlash.

2.) B&B "owns" the post/content you submit but for one primary reason - content. We've had members in the past get upset, and leave - and want all of their posts deleted. Well, it leaves a TON of holes in useful/helpful discussion, and we're always MORE than happy to remove (and have) posts which they felt were off topic, poor form, and so on and so forth - but if they took part in a discussion over the merits of a shaving brush - brought up some outstanding points which many others responded to and quoted, taking that out leaves a lot of holes in threads, and mitigates their effectiveness at helping, informing and educating members. This is nothing we try to "hide" as it's right in the terms of usage, and everyone agrees to it when they sign up for an account here on B&B. While not as much of an issue - we also do this as a protection, in that if someone steals your posts/content for commercial purposes we can, and will assist you in stopping them from abusing YOUR content. If someone writes a book for profit, or does a video/DVD/whatever on wetshaving, all with content lifted from B&B - instead of 5,000 individuals having to protect their information on their own, B&B can, has and will go after them. B&B exists for the free sharing of information RE: wetshaving, to help spread the word, and joy of wetshaving, and to help assist new fellas in their quest for a better, more enjoyable shave.... and to do so for free. Someone else benefitting (financially) for all of your (and our) blood sweat and tears isn't alright with us - as it defeats the purpose of this place... the FREE sharing of information and the growth of this hobby. No information on B&B has, or will ever cost money.

I hope this sheds some light on the issues...

[Antique Hoosier]

My question has been appropriately answered in public and private. Thank you gentlemen of B&B. I have no hard feelings toward anyone in this virtual community and as you know count many of you as dear friends.

[joel]

My question has been appropriately answered in public and private. Thank you gentlemen of B&B. I have no hard feelings toward anyone in this virtual community and as you know count many of you as dear friends.

Glad to hear Mike. We love ya and appreciate you! :thumbup1:

[TstebinsB]

All this talk makes me feel good considering I'm in law school to become an Intellectual Property Lawyer. :biggrin:

[rickw]

I've been contacted by Mods, via pm, when one of my posts was held, altered, or deleted. They have always been respectful, and told me up front what was happenning and why. Can't object to that in any way. I've also seen what happens to threads when a member goes through his posts and materially alters or deletes them. I would side with Joel and the Mods with respect to this.