more rouge/paste questions

[mysticmonkeytattoo]

can anyone tell me what exactly the red polishing compound that came with my dremel set is? dremel 421 polishing compound? does it have any use in relation to razors? pasting a strop? polishing a blade? cleaning up bolsters that are tarnished? keeping the heck away from any part of a razor?

[FloppyShoes]

Take a scrap piece of metal with a mirror finish and use the paste on it with a buffing wheel. Compare it to results from other pastes you might have and there is your answer.

A few months back I went through 3 different "green" pastes of varrying grits and compositions. All claimed to give a mirror finish and be for the final stage of polishing. Only one, however, truly did give a nice glossy mirror finish. This is the one I use on my finishing strop now and as a final stage in polishing when restoring blades.

ALWAYS try new/unkown products on a scrap piece before using it on the good stuff. This is true of any product or tool.

[Thebigspendur]

There is a difference between a true rouge and a sharpening compund. A rouge is designed to polish metals and plastics too and is not for sharpening anything. When I got my dremmel it came with a white polishing compound but it also is designed for polishing not sharpening. If you want to sharpen get some known stuff like CrO or Diamond paste or similar. In any event don't experiment on your razors unless you have a junk razor on hand.

[mysticmonkeytattoo]

the scrap test is a good idea. if i might ask, which green pastes did you try, and which did you like best, and why?

[Tony Miller]

Big Spender, Technically even our favorite diamond pastes were designed for polishing, not sharpening. They have lots of industrial uses in finishing metals and plastics, mainly for polishing surfaces. In other suspensions, liquids or slurry they are used on metal laps to polish gem stones and for faceting. Smearing them on a slab of leather to polish and edge to sharpness was just an interesting application.

Tony

[FloppyShoes]

the scrap test is a good idea. if i might ask, which green pastes did you try, and which did you like best, and why?

My favorite (the one I'm currently using) is made by Mibro. It is labeled as "#6High Gloss Polishing" and comes in a rigid stick. For any Canadians reading this, you can pick it up at Canadian Tire for like $6. It is PACKED with abrasive and can be applied to strops very easily.

Before that I tried the green compound in the store brand (jobmate) dremel accessory kit I got. It had an odd gradation, the larger particles being too coarse to be of any use in sharpening. I now use it only when I can't get sandpaper into a little nook. It works well on the tang stampings and such, but not as a last step.

I also tried a product that appeared similar to the Mibro Rouge, but it was too waxy. The proportion of abrasive to binder was way off, making it messy and slow cutting. It was also far too hard to apply to a strop.

All of these are green (chromium oxide) pastes and all are labeled as fine buffing compound. In the end, it took some testing and a few bucks to find a product I liked, but I'm happy. Everyone and their mother can come on here and post that rouge isn't good to use on strops, but I beg to differ. I would say, provided you find a good brand, it's the same as specialized CrO2 sharpening compound and is much easier to find.

[Thebigspendur]

Big Spender, Technically even our favorite diamond pastes were designed for polishing, not sharpening. They have lots of industrial uses in finishing metals and plastics, mainly for polishing surfaces. In other suspensions, liquids or slurry they are used on metal laps to polish gem stones and for faceting. Smearing them on a slab of leather to polish and edge to sharpness was just an interesting application.

Tony

True but we're talking about polishes that come in differing grit sizes. A true rouge, if you used it to sharpen a razor you would have to spend a very loooong time on it to get any real result. I used to work in the geology lab when I was in college and we used levigated alumina to do most of the work because it was cheap and it comes in many many grit sizes. You could use it like coarse sandpaper and like a super polish for lapidary uses or as a metal polish too.

So what I'm saying is are we talking about rouge or a polishing compound of varying grit size. What makes a rouge a rouge is its incredibly fine grit size.

[gglockner]

My favorite (the one I'm currently using) is made by Mibro. It is labeled as "#6High Gloss Polishing" and comes in a rigid stick. For any Canadians reading this, you can pick it up at Canadian Tire for like $6. It is PACKED with abrasive and can be applied to strops very easily.



Is this the same stuff you are referring to?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200329637_200329637

Thanks Glen

[FloppyShoes]

Yes, that's the stuff. The #6 is the only really usefull grit (about 0.5 micron CrO2). I also got the #2 (about 3 micron) and found the binder too stiff, making it impossible to apply properly to strops.

As for their usefullness on buffing wheels I'd say they are top knotch.

[Belegnole]

I have been polishing things for over 24 years. To clarify things a bit..

Almost all compounds used to polish/sand/cut/grind are abrasives. That is they cut into and remove metal or what ever the material that your working is. The differences between them consists mostly in the size, shape, and hardness of the abrasive particles. As we make smaller and smaller scratches in something the item gets shiny. The best way to get rid of a larger scratch in metal is to sand/polish perpendicular to the first scratch. ...What we choose to use to work on a particular item is based partially on whether or not it will even cut the item in question ie. how hard is our abrasive. Another is what grit size and what are we trying to do. There are quite a few compounds out there and while rouge is one I'm not so sure it will make you happy. It is used mainly for finish work on precious metals (soft metals)...

[gglockner]

I have been polishing things for over 24 years. To clarify things a bit..

Almost all compounds used to polish/sand/cut/grind are abrasives. That is they cut into and remove metal or what ever the material that your working is. The differences between them consists mostly in the size, shape, and hardness of the abrasive particles. As we make smaller and smaller scratches in something the item gets shiny. The best way to get rid of a larger scratch in metal is to sand/polish perpendicular to the first scratch. ...What we choose to use to work on a particular item is based partially on whether or not it will even cut the item in question ie. how hard is our abrasive. Another is what grit size and what are we trying to do. There are quite a few compounds out there and while rouge is one I'm not so sure it will make you happy. It is used mainly for finish work on precious metals (soft metals)...

Dave, not to change the subject around here, but I have a question. Does steel have a grain to it? It seems every razor that I have restored using sand paper I use the concept you mentioned about going perpendicular to the first scratch pattern to remove or lessen the scratches. My question comes up that it always seems that the most aggressive scratch occurs mostly in the same direction of the grind or perpendicular to the edge. The grind is no longer visible so I was wondering why when putting the final polish on the scratches, I am always going in the same direction as the edge.

Thanks Glen

[Belegnole]

First let me state that I am not a metallurgist nor a expert in steel. One of our knife makers would have more experience with steel than myself. I however have been working as a goldsmith/silversmith/platinumsmith for 24+ years.

While metals don't have a grain such as a piece of wood some might exibit simular tendencies. Damascus and Mokume' Gane are woodgrain metal composites that would share some of woods tendencies as far as one part being softer than another. As to the steels most commonly used in a razor I don't think there would be enough of a difference in the alignment of the crystals to make a difference. What I do think is happening is that you are working different shapes and lengths of metal so the pressure required to cut and the reflection of your results is different. Like I said though, someone like Bill might just come in here and tell me I'm off my rocker.

[Thebigspendur]

I think you can confuse grain with polishing pattern. When you look at stainless steel most has a pattern to it but thats a polish pattern not grain. Many steel razors that have other than a mirror finish exhibit some kind of pattern and thats the way its polished. Does that effect the steels properties? That I don't know you need someone like Mike Blue to answer that one. Certainly steels and any alloyed metal like gold though visually uniform if you look at it under enough magnification like with a sem you would see the individual grains of the various metals. However I agree I don't think that would cause any graining effect and these grains don't line up like in a xtl they are just mixed up like in a pudding. Depending on how the metal was produced you could wind up with other problems like micro cracks (one of the reasons the Titanic sunk, the cold water and the grains in the steel affecting the strength of the steel). I guess technically all metal has a grain to it because its heated and then cooled but practically I don't think it affects what we do with a razor.

[Suzuki]

Anyone ever use the green compound from Lee Valley to sharpen razors?

Supposed to be 0.5 microns and made up of chromium oxide and some other abrasives.