Developing Problem with SMF Forum Brush

[InjuryLaw]

(Also posted on SMF.com)

I hate to bring up this subject again, but now I've found that the top edge of the wood handle on the SMF brush is starting to wear off in a few places. Basically, it looks like small pits have developed in the wood coating.

Perhaps this may come from soaking the brush in very hot water? Needless to say, I find this quite upsetting because I otherwise love the brush, which happens to be my first and only premium badger. Frankly, I don't think I should have to go through the trouble and expense of mailing it back to Germany, not to mention that I will then be without any brush for weeks. And who's to say that this won't happen again?

I would hope and expect that Bernd would do the right thing (like many other manufacturers do) by sending me out a replacement and then allow me to send mine back. I guess I'll have to email him and see.

I hope I don't come off as an ingrate or whiner - I just don't think this kind of defect is acceptable for a supposedly fine hand-made product of this caliber. I know a few others had the same problem, and I wouldn't be surprised if many other brushes start to show the same wear sooner or later.

- Brad

[Scotto]

Sorry to hear that. I soak my brush, but try to keep the handle out of the water. I am going to inspect mine closely tonight and see if anything looks out of the ordinary, but I suspect I would have seen something if it was there. Good luck with Bernd, and keep us posted.

[gage0921]

Frankly, I don't think I should have to go through the trouble and expense of mailing it back to Germany

Really...................but you took the time to annoy us about this issue again. Last time I checked bernd was not a member here and would not be able to answere any questions you might have about your brush. So please spare us all with your complaints and talk to the man who can do something for you. I think I speak for quite a few of us when I say were tired of hearing you bitch and moan.

[gage0921]

Thanks for the update, InjuryLaw. I have waited to see how these brushes would turn out before I ordered one. It is unfortunate that you are having problems with your brush.

InjuryLaw, I don't think you are "bitching and moaning"; in fact, I think this is amng the rudest things I have seen expressed on any of the major shaving boards, especially by a moderator. I would hope that this is not the tone that is to be set on this board, because it has a lot of potential.

Attacks such as this do not seem to follow the spirit of the opening greeting on this board. As a member, I am very disappointed.


With only 5 posts you obviously have not been around here long and I dont recall ever seeing you around smf either but I dont have the best memory. Your right this site does have alot of potential and will continue to grow regardless of this incident or what you say. Moderator or not......if mother marry read this forum or the pope for that matter and new of this guys posting history they would have the same thing to say as well. This has been discussed here before and the real harm here is this guy's nonsense. By all means, order you a smf brush if you want.....out of all the brush's that were made its not uncommon that a few might have problems but the other question is how do we know this guy isnt abusing the brush by exposing it to scolding hot water. All this guys post do when it concerns this brush is belittle Joel and bernd and im not going to have it. MODERATOR OR NOT!!!!!

[Chris]

With only 5 posts you obviously have not been around here long and I dont recall ever seeing you around smf either but I dont have the best memory. Your right this site does have alot of potential and will continue to grow regardless of this incident or what you say. Moderator or not......if mother marry read this forum or the pope for that matter and new of this guys posting history they would have the same thing to say as well. This has been discussed here before and the real harm here is this guy's nonsense. By all means, order you a smf brush if you want.....out of all the brush's that were made its not uncommon that a few might have problems but the other question is how do we know this guy isnt abusing the brush by exposing it to scolding hot water. All this guys post do when it concerns this brush is belittle Joel and bernd and im not going to have it. MODERATOR OR NOT!!!!!

Honk has been around quite a while. You need to relax man. Nobody is trying to belittle anybody, he was just trying to express a concern. Relax. I agree, he ought to contact Bernd as well, but I don't see any malice here...

[madmax]

The kid may moan a bit, I don't know, but why can't he review or comment on a shaving brush. It's his first big brush and he's looking for some feedback. A lot comment on the English brushes and those firms are not, as I know, members of these forums. I love one of my shavemac brushes, not the other, big deal. Great start.

Max

[gage0921]

[QUOTE=InjuryLawI just don't think this kind of defect is acceptable for a supposedly fine hand-made product of this caliber.[/QUOTE]


You dont feel this is an attack...................This is the second time it has been brought up from this particular individual and he received the same response (not so harshly) and yet he still eggs it on. Im not denying his brush might have a flaw but with all the drama that surrounds this brush on the web wouldnt it be a smart idea to maybe pm the particular person he is trying to reach with this or go about it differently. He is a member here but he posts this knowing the negative effect it will have. I have spoke my peace

[Nick]

Guys,

Seriously, this is absurd.

Brad, don't you think the best venue for your concern would be going straight to Bernd first? Then coming here with your concerns if he didn't answer them fully? Airing them publically without first trying to resolve them doesn't seem COMPLETELY koser. A thread with "I had problems and Bernd sure had great customer service" or "I had problems and Bernd didn't address them despite me contacting him" are a lot more useful.

Sean, I understand your zeal, and we have seen this issue before, but I think we all need to take a breather.

-Nick

[Rik]

I agree with Nick. It would be much more meaningful to the rest of us if individuals posted the vendor's response to an issue instead of posting prior to contacting them. I know Bernd will support his product.

Brad,
I'm sorry you're experiencing problems. I look forward to your giving us an update once you've corresponded with Bernd!

Take care,

[Austin]

Mike, you bring up a good point about the Vulfix brush. It seems their problems are intermittant and in lots of production. True, problems with brushes have been discussed before on the two forums.

B&B welcomes discussion of all products and problems. Hopefully, we can see resolution to Brad's problem in an expediant manner.

Lets move on.

[Scotto]

I agree, let's chalk this one up to growing pains and move on.

[joel]

Well - I guess I am a little confused... I had posted multiple times that I didn't think it would be a good idea to put these in boiling hot pot water up to the wood... I dunno if that caused the problem - but I guess what really throws me for a loop, is why this was posted publically, before speaking with Bernd, and more importantly - why it was posted on BOTH forums.... seems a bit odd.

I dunno - I guess I don't really care, but it has always been a peeve of mine to dislike when others had complaints and such and bring them to the public's attention before, or at the same time they contact the retailer.

[aybond]

why this was posted publically, before speaking with Bernd, and more importantly - why it was posted on BOTH forums.... seems a bit odd.

Joel, I agree with you, and I don't agree with you. Here's why:
I think that this is a matter that needed to be addressed with Bernd and then the results possibly posted.
I don't see it as odd that he posted it on this forum and SMF.com. he is obviously a member of both and he knows that there are members of both forums who happen to have purchased this brush and may not be on both forums. he is just getting his opinion out to as many people that can relate to him.
I do relate to him as I have the same problem. I just choose not to correct it. I first noticed this when I opened the box and looked for it due to not receiving my brush until late (thanks FedEx) and I had read of this issue on another members brush. I decided that I enjoyed this brush enough that I chose to live with it, as it is not a big deal. It's not anything that I feel will deteriorate any faster than any other brush I own. I only noticed it because I went looking for it.
I admire Bernd for building this brush, and Joel for putting it all together so that we could have the opportunity to own one. I am in no way displeased, or upset at anyone. I use it in my rotation and will continue to do so as long as there is one tiny hair left to lather with. (picture that one :001_tt2: )

Good day,
Allen

[Dave T]

Whatever the merits are of the points made in regard to the original post in this thread, the one thing obvious in this thread is that gage0921 is not fit to be a moderator. He should either voluntarily step down or be removed. Moderators should be held to a higher level, and his postings were mean, spiteful, outrageous, and thoroughly inexcusable.

Dave T

[robofunk]

Gentlemen:

Bernd had replied to me before that he would be happy to reimburse the shipping paid to replace the brush. I'm sure that he will do the same for Brad.

I applied some tung oil to the brush as a quick fix. At this point the tung oil repels water from the wood, and seems to be working out pretty well...

Let us end this issue, and move on.

-Dan

[Craig_In_Cincy]

Really...................but you took the time to annoy us about this issue again. Last time I checked bernd was not a member here and would not be able to answere any questions you might have about your brush. So please spare us all with your complaints and talk to the man who can do something for you. I think I speak for quite a few of us when I say were tired of hearing you bitch and moan.

WOW- If this is the tone being set at this forum -BY THE MODERATORS NO LESS- you can count me out. This site seems to be devolving already.

Craig

[joel]

WOW- If this is the tone being set at this forum -BY THE MODERATORS NO LESS- you can count me out. This site seems to be devolving already.

Craig

Craig,
Everyone has a bad day/week we are all only human. Gage is a wonderful guy, and meant no harm. These SMF shaving brushes seem to be an overly hot, sensitive topic. Personally I think the whole mess has gotten WAY too much attention and to me it is old, boring news. I am VERY much over it. I am here to have fun, talk shaving and enjoy my time here - hopefully everyone else is here for the same reasons. I understand your sentiments, but think you might be a bit hasty... a moderator is nothing "special" - simply another member of the forum JUST like you. Remember - here, you have as much say as ANY moderator, including me.

Personally - I say kick back, relax and lets all have a beer and get back to the fun stuff! Squabbles no matter HOW right or wrong are always just an unnecessary deviation.

I say F-it and lets move on! :a17:

[Craig_In_Cincy]

Great advice Joel!

Perhaps i was a bit hasty, the post just really rubbed my the wrong way. Sorry.

Hope everyone has a great holiday weekend. Let's pray for those poor souls on the Gulf Coast.

Craig

[Scotto]

Craig, I hope you stick around. Every place has its growing pains, and this is shaping up to be a super site with a great bunch of guys.

[gage0921]

Yes...........I was way out of line and should have my head examined.....one of those days......my sincerest apologies.

[InjuryLaw]

I'm absolutely stunned. I have been off the net for about 5 days due to a move, and I come back to THIS :


Really...................but you took the time to annoy us about this issue again. Last time I checked bernd was not a member here and would not be able to answere any questions you might have about your brush. So please spare us all with your complaints and talk to the man who can do something for you. I think I speak for quite a few of us when I say were tired of hearing you bitch and moan.

You are WAY the hell out of line, Sean. So you are "tired of hearing me bitch and moan" huh? Interesting comment, since I've never posted a negative word about the brush until this post.

Last time I checked, I don't need your permission to post my questions or concerns about this brush. I paid over a $100 for a supposedly hand-made item that is already showing signs of deterioration. Moreover, I don't recall any warnings against soaking the brush in hot water. Obviously, this method is not at all unusual and should have been anticipated by Bernd. Maybe I should make sure not to have any shaving cream come into contact with the handle as well? At the very least, we should have been warned not to soak the brush. And, not that it should matter, but I've always taken care to not submerge the entire handle. However, it is inevitable that the water sometimes hits the top edge of the handle.

In any event, Bernd has since offered to take care of the problem. Given your (late) apology, I'm letting this go at this point, but this kind of response was totally unwarranted and, frankly, does not bode well for the future of this forum.

- Brad

[guenron]

Brad,
Your expression of righteous indignation, while understandable, is of no value to anyone including yourself. I am sure that everyone appreciates you manifold contributions and certainly is crying out for the public humiliation of Sean, if not some corporal punishment. BUT, I think we will all forego that opportunity in light of his apology. Too bad you missed the chance too.

[InjuryLaw]

As usual, Ronnie, you seem to operating on a different wavelength than the rest of us.

In all honesty, I find myself baffled each and every time I come across one of your posts. Do you realize that nearly every word you type drips with sarcasm and condescension? Either that or you regurgitate a string of obscure references and disjointed, stream-of-consciousness commentary. Obviously, I realize that I cannot compete with a wit as delightful and razor-sharp as yours, which could only be honed after years of rubbing elbows with the high-society and sophisticates of Norman, Oklahoma.

I believe you were recently scolded and told to cease and desist in reference to another one of your typically confounding and ridiculous rants in a different thread. Take the hint.

- Brad

[Scotto]

Guys,

I had hoped this thread had died after Sean's apology, but it has definitely crossed the line again. Brad - take a moment to relax and consider how your post was perceived; you basically took Sean's apology and crapped all over it. It was sure to generate a response, and indeed it did. Degenerating from there into personal attacks on Ron doesn't help the situation at all. I am glad you are getting a response from Bernd, and if you choose not to participate here I understand that also. Just let it go and move on.

[joel]

I agree... lets all take a step back.

For what it is worth Brad - I had suggested several times on SMF that it probably would not be a good idea to put boiling water on the wood, as to me it just seemed logical that over time it would deterioirate the lacquer. Remember though - all of my posts there are gone.

[guenron]

Brad,
My goodness, and here I thought I was defending your right to whinge. If your writing to me in the diminutive is to indicate anything, please have it out. Your personnal attacks are really undeserved, but I must consider the source. And if you must profess your honesty, what is there about you we should distrust? I guess when you have a jaundiced eye, everything looks yellow.
Now Braddypoo, (Do you prefer that?) go along and try to insult some others.


As usual, Ronnie, you seem to operating on a different wavelength than the rest of us.

In all honesty, I find myself baffled each and every time I come across one of your posts. Do you realize that nearly every word you type drips with sarcasm and condescension? Either that or you regurgitate a string of obscure references and disjointed, stream-of-consciousness commentary. Obviously, I realize that I cannot compete with a wit as delightful and razor-sharp as yours, which could only be honed after years of rubbing elbows with the high-society and sophistcates of Norman, Oklahoma.

I believe you were recently scolded and told to cease and desist in reference to another one of your typically confounding and ridiculous rants in a different thread. Take the hint.

- Brad

[InjuryLaw]

My Sweet Ronette -

Joel asked me to be the bigger man when you shot off your mouth a few weeks back, and I did out of respect for him and his new forum. But I'm done biting my tongue you snotty, arrogant prick.

You sure are a tough guy aren't you -- at least when you're typing away in your parents' basement. Why don't you go back to fantasizing that the genuine silvertip badger you're using to stimulate your micropahllus is what you'd imagine a real woman might feel like.

As far as Sean's late apology, I personally don't subscribe to the theory that simply saying "sorry" makes everything OK. Sean attacked me out of nowhere, for no reason, and THEN decided to apologize after everyone called him out. So now I'm supposed to just grin and bear it? I don't think so.

- Brad

P.S. I've had several emails from members of both forums supporting me and questioning the tone and direction of this new forum. I was one of the first to visit this site and pledge my support to Joel, who has been nothing but great to me. But if this is what it's going to be like here, you can definitely count me out.

[Scotto]

P.S. I've had several emails from members of both forums supporting me and questioning the tone and direction of this new forum. I was one of the first to pledge my support to Joel, who has been nothing but great to me. But if this is what it's going to be like here, you can definitely count me out.

Brad, if that was the case, whatever "goodwill" you have accumulated has now gone. I for one was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but no longer. Your post is truly offensive. Look around this site- just about every post with the exception of your 10 "contributions" have been positive, helpful exchanges. If you want to be counted out, I encourage that - go ahead and revoke your membership here.

[InjuryLaw]

Scotto -

So sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities. I only hope that those who are unfortunate enough to read my post will be able to recover.

- Brad

[guenron]

Brad,
I think your post says all that need be said about you and your attitude. As far as support, you certainly need it.

[joel]

Anyone can lodge an insult.... it does not take witt, intelligence, compassion, honor, restraint or class to blast away at someone.... all it takes is a lack of self control. Such a display is seen by most Asian cultures as an extreme sign of distrust, and a lack of self control - which dissolves any respect they once harbored for the individual. Showing any public reaction shows the individual that they have done what they intended.... changed your mindset, feelings and thoughts, and as a result - become part of your life. Who wants to willingly invite negativity, anger and conflict into their lives?

This is a forum... a place for us to come together, enjoy, share experiences, knowledge and FRIENDSHIP - this is an oasis in a desert.... why pour sand into the water? There is enough negativity and conflict around us at home, work, school and throughout the world.... lets keep this oasis just that.... something magical - something special to sneak away to.

I don't think apoligies are needed. I don't think a finger of blame is needed, and I know "moderation" is not needed. What IS needed is for us ALL to stop for a second, and really think about why we are here, what we like about the place, don't like about the place and WANT the place to be. This is ALL OURS - lets ALL step up, be PROACTIVE and TURN this place into what we all desire... a happy utopia we can ALL enjoy with our buddies, and chit chat about shaving. If you (meaning ANYONE) have intentions other than hangin' out with the fellas and simply having fun - then I suggest you consider other ventures. For those of you who WISH to "hang out with the fellas" and just have fun here - don't wait for it to happen.... this is as much your site as anyone elses. Take a stand, step up, and make something happen. I assure you - you will be accepted with open arms - no matter WHAT your history.

You've got an invitation..... now it is up to you to do something with it.

[gage0921]

[QUOTE=InjuryLawAs far as Sean's late apology, I personally don't subscribe to the theory that simply saying "sorry" makes everything OK. Sean attacked me out of nowhere, for no reason, and THEN decided to apologize after everyone called him out. So now I'm supposed to just grin and bear it? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]

I appologized because I am clearly the bigger man................No amount of poking or proding could make me appologize for the sake of your feelings. You feel the need to leave so be it..............Dont let the door hit ya.

[InjuryLaw]

Joel, I sincerely wish you the best with this site. I appreciate all the work you've obviously been putting in to create and grow B&B. Beyond that, you seem like a true gentleman and all-around good guy.

However, am I the only one who finds it telling that there are more moderators than actual members posting regularly on this forum? This begs the question, if there are only moderators to moderate, who is left to moderate the moderators?

Whatever you may think of my opinion, I would respectfully suggest that you not turn a blind eye to what is transpiring here. There are many among the shaving community who are now seriously questioning the direction this brand-new forum seems to be taking. The undeniable truth is that SOME of the moderators you have chosen are clearly not fit for the task (to wit, Sean and Ron), and reflect very poorly on B&B. It's sad that the older forums are far more accomodating and welcoming of truly open debate and discussion, even when things get a bit messy or disagreeable.

All you have to do is go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read my original post -- before things quickly devolved (which I admittedly contributed to). Look at the nasty tone and (knee-)jerk reactions of the aforementioned moderators. Is THIS what you envisioned for B&B? Is THIS the way you want things to go??

Sean has now all but told me to leave. I may be only one measly junior member, who can be easily dismissed, but one begets two, which beget three, and so on...

- Brad

[joel]

Best of luck to you too Brad :smile:

[nteeman]

Sad thread. Sorry I read it. Corey Sh*thead is probably enjoying it though.