Transition from Gillette Adjustable to Vision...

[Super90]

.....was a bit of a challenge this morning.

I got out my recently acquired Vision and decided to give it a go. I have been using a Fatboy for about a month and a half and have been recently getting wonderful shaves out of it thanks to some good advise on the boards. Smooth, no irritation, very nice.

First, before even starting to shave, I notice that, even dialed all the way down, the Vision has a lot more blade exposed than the Gillette at the lowest settings. I am already a bit concerned. I am making my first pass on a "5" with the Gillette, and then backing down to a "3" in a few spots. I put a new Merkur blade in the Vision and lather up with some Nancy Boy cream and ......here.....we .....go. Damn, this thing is different. Pulling and tugging. Adjusting the angle a bit. Ouch. Whoa. Is this blade really new ??!!! What the ....

OK, maybe switch to the Feather blades I like so much in the Gillette. Nice and sharp, but, folks said to wait to use it.......nick, nick, ouch, cut, fu__!

Alright. What to do now? This is like a cruisade as far as I am concerned. I was getting really comfortable with the Gillette and getting consistant shaves here lately. I love the longer handle of the Vision and the heft and the way it is built, but am I just asking for punishment ?

Thoughts on how to adapt?

Can one somehow adjust the range of the "adjustment" of the Vision? What is that set screw looking thing in the bottom of the handle when you take it apart? Does it control anything ? I would love to crank this thing down much more, but it just won't do it.

TIA !!

Robert

[Super90]

...see post above with new thread title.

[Super90]

OK, even after adjusting the blade exposure as described, I am having a devil of a time shaving with the Vision. I have tried to shave with it twice more. It doesn't seem to cut nearly as nicely as the Gillette adjustable. The blade skips and jumps on the face and doesn't seem as solidly in the razor. It just doesn't seem to glide at all.

What am I doing wrong ?

I am really bummed out about this. I felt sure the Vision was such a nice razor via descriptions and construction quality, etc. But so far, it's been a disappointment.

Ideas ?

[htownmmm]

Using the VISION well wil take some time.

Make sure that u r using the weight of this razor to do the work.


Let's go over the settings:

V- most balde exposure

N- least blade exposure. Start off @ this end and work your way back and see if this helps. The VISION is a different beast, but she can b tamed. Others with much more experience than I will give u more detailed info.


Marty

[guenron]

Hello Robert!
I was reticent to say "Good Morning" as it sounds as though yours have not been quite up to that standard. As a long time Vision user I tried to remember having the razor act as you have described in your experiences. Only one came to mind and that was limited to my moustache area and it happed on an against-the-grain pass where I had not sufficiently reduced the hedge before going in for the final pass.
I assume that is not your issue. To offer any advice I really need to know more about your shave, prep, cream/soap etc. Skip and hop usually occur when the resistance of the whiskers exceeds the ability of the blade to shear them. In this case though, it could be your technique with the razor. Let us look at this. If your blade angle relative to your face is slipping in and out of the shearing zone while you pull the raozr along, this could potentially cause the hop(s), skip(s), and jump(s) you are experiencing. This could easily happen as a result of you being unfamiliar with the Vision, its shape, mass, and length of handle.
The Vision has a very pronounced report from the whiskers falling prey to the blade. The pleasing pinging sound tends to provide feedback that the angle is at the sweet spot. I suggest, for lack of more information, that you focus on angle control with slow, short strokes and see if you can keep that sweet sound reverbrating. I must assume (although I really do not like to) that you are prepping and lathering properly and you have a reasonably sharp blade in the Vision. Despite your prediliction to the Feather, perhaps a couple of weeks with the lovely Merkur are in order?

[Sam]

I agree about going with a less aggressive blade at first. I used Merkurs when I first used the Vision and even then, I had the exact same problems. Took me 6 months to get the hang of it. Gordon really helped me out. #1 thing I had to learn was let the razor work, and maybe use negative pressure. That is, try to take the weight of the razor out of the equation even. #2: Go with an Israeli DE blade if you can. #3: Maybe start with just North to South (with the grain) passes at first.

I had a tremendous learning curve on my Vision as it was the only DE I had for a year.

Sam

[mrob]

As a long time Vision user I tried to remember having the razor act as you have described in your experiences. Only one came to mind and that was limited to my moustache area and it happed on an against-the-grain pass where I had not sufficiently reduced the hedge before going in for the final pass.

Great advice, Ron. As a Vision user, I was thinking the same thing but didn't know how to put it--well done.

If I have problems with the Vision, the upper lip is where it happens. I find that dialing down the aggression helps, but its always a tad scary doing the SN pass up there. Smooth, but scary.

[guenron]

Great advice, Ron. As a Vision user, I was thinking the same thing but didn't know how to put it--well done.

If I have problems with the Vision, the upper lip is where it happens. I find that dialing down the aggression helps, but its always a tad scary doing the SN pass up there. Smooth, but scary.
It is as you say. It does not take much of a hop or skip to get a chunky nick with a nice sharp feather in that heavy weight of the DE world.:ihih:

[gundog]

I have had nothing but great shaves with the Vision. Much better than with my Gillette Fat Boy. Not to take away from the Gillette as it is a very good razor and I still use it when in a hurry. The Gillette is more forgiving and provides a very smooth shave but, the Vision just gives me a smooth and much closer shave with either the Merkur blades or with Feathers. Of course everyone is different but the Vison just works better for me than Gillettes or other Merkurs such as the HD. As previously stated with the Vision, use no pressure and let the razor do the work. This is much more important than with the Gillette. Listening to the Vision at work also helps. I can tell by the sound the Vision makes while cutting that it is at he correct angle especially on certain parts of the neck. I'm also aware that works for me is not sutiable for all. I may be an oddball but, I'll never be without my Vision.

Bud

[Super90]

Honestly, gents, I am about to the point of saying this razor is not for me. I tried more to make this thing work, but nothing but suffering.

I happened to go to Austin and stopped by Enchante yesterday. Talked to Charles' wife, Jean, I think, and I asked about this razor and what experience that had with it and their customers. Long story short, they don't sell it anymore. It was the cause of more problems than benefit for them as a retailer. Charles wasn't there at the time so I didn't get his opinion directly.

I happened to be ordering some things from Classic today, and talked to Will there. Asked about the Vision and the difficulties I was having and he basically said it is a "love it or hate it" razor. Folks that like it, love it and say it is the greatest razor of all for them. Otherwise, it seems to be a nightmare. Will is sending me a Futur and says he is so confident in it, he will take it back if I don't like it after a week.

Soooo. I have put the Vision on the shelf for a while.

I wanted so much for this razor to be one of the great ones for me, but I don't think it's in the cards at this point.

[roughrider]

Let us know how it goes with the Futur.

[Joe Lerch]

OK, even after adjusting the blade exposure as described, I am having a devil of a time shaving with the Vision. I have tried to shave with it twice more. It doesn't seem to cut nearly as nicely as the Gillette adjustable. The blade skips and jumps on the face and doesn't seem as solidly in the razor. It just doesn't seem to glide at all.

What am I doing wrong ?

I am really bummed out about this. I felt sure the Vision was such a nice razor via descriptions and construction quality, etc. But so far, it's been a disappointment.

Ideas ?It seems that you are having a problem with angle control and maybe shaving too aggressively. You need to maintain the razor at just a little more than the flattest angle. I have never found a razor that tracks better. Once you get the angle it just hums along. I'm assuming you're not using any pressure. As a check, hold the razor low on the handle and just support its weight on your face.

Unlike a Gillette, the Vision will let you attack your beard as aggressively as you want. So, take it easy. Don't try to take everything in one pass, because the Vision will accomodate you. Instead, use beard reduction, working down to a fine stubble on the last pass, when you finally cut down to skin.

[Joe Lerch]

Will is sending me a Futur and says he is so confident in it, he will take it back if I don't like it after a week.Interesting. I always considered my Futur, which I've used for a long time, much harsher than the Vision.

You haven't told us very much about what you're doing, but something has to be wrong. At times like this it's often best to back off and come back another day when you're more relaxed about it, but you really need to think about what as going wrong.

[Super90]

Joe,

I got the Futur yesterday evening and shaved with it this morning. I had it dialed down to a "2", just to get the hang of it before doing much more. It is indeed more agressive than my Gillette adjustable, but it is far, far more kind than "my" Vision.

I am about convinced something is wrong with that particular razor.

Would you be willing to look at it and see what you think ?

TIA,

Robert

[Sam]

Robert: Is it dialed down as low as it can go? I know you probably already have, but with a Feather blade dialed as low as it can go, it is no more aggressive than say a Fixed blade razor. Now some blades can be bad, and like a Feather blade is apt to do, it smooths out after a shave or two (I shaved with the Gillette this week with a new Feather and it kinda tugged at the hairs).

I do not have a Futur so I can not compare it. I did find the Vision to be more aggressive than my Gillettes, and this being the second Vision, it was more aggressive than the first. But my technique obviously has improved since my first vision.

I made a mistake and sold my first vision and then bought a new one after my technique got better. I have learned that if i get a new razor, even a progress, do not get rid of any of the other ones. In fact, the Gillette fatboy shaves as well as my Vision, so no need really for me to try a Progress. I clean up using a slant bar which allows me all sorts of manueverability

Sam

[Super90]

Sam,

I bought this Vision from you. I guess I am not as lucky with the razor as you were.

Is this your first or the second one you bought?

R.

[Sam]

The second one. I had one that was I thought not aggressive enough. When I bought a Feather straight, I sold the vision. Well, I gave up for a while on the straights and bought another. Then i went to the gillette and found it shaved as well as the vision. Obviously the straights taught me well. So I sold the Vision so I can buy the new brush I am dieing to get.

Sam

[yasuo200365]

Robert,

You might be right about something being wrong with your razor ..., it is not unknown with the Vision.

Neither the Futur or Vision are high on my likeable list, in fact the Vision is the only razor I have ever actively sold ..., I didn't like it enough to even keep in my collection, instead I preferred to recoup some of the money ..., again with the Vision this is quite a common occurance I believe.

Regards
John

[Joe Lerch]

Joe,

I got the Futur yesterday evening and shaved with it this morning. I had it dialed down to a "2", just to get the hang of it before doing much more. It is indeed more agressive than my Gillette adjustable, but it is far, far more kind than "my" Vision.

I am about convinced something is wrong with that particular razor.

Would you be willing to look at it and see what you think ?

TIA,

RobertI'm not a razor repairman, but I would be happy to look at it, compare it to mine, and try it out. Send me a PM and I'll give you my office address, which is the best place to send it.

[Joe Lerch]

I got the Futur yesterday evening and shaved with it this morning. I had it dialed down to a "2", just to get the hang of it before doing much more. It is indeed more agressive than my Gillette adjustable, but it is far, far more kind than "my" Vision.By the way, the Futur is a pussycat down there. The harshness starts above 3. I got mine before there were any forums and before I had any help. It took me 2 years before I learned how to get it above 3.

[Super90]

I'm not a razor repairman, but I would be happy to look at it, compare it to mine, and try it out.


Understood. Just wanted a user to "render an opinion" regarding this razor.

PM on the way.

TIA,

Robert

[Sam]

By the way, the Futur is a pussycat down there. The harshness starts above 3. I got mine before there were any forums and before I had any help. It took me 2 years before I learned how to get it above 3.

Joe, The Vision was my first razor at all in the DE world. It took 6 months easy for me to get a decent shave. Gordon can tell you of all my trouble over on the Wetshavers forum, where I first met Joel. I had trouble with it as well. So I can tell you from my own personal knowledge that technique is critical. That is why my first go around with Gillette adjustables probably was not all that great. After refining my technique, and the straights really probably helped with that, heck, that Vision was clunky compared to the Fatboy Gillette I obtained. After getting that, I decided that the Vision was too heavy for me, so I sold it

Sam

[greendyk]

I had a Vision and sold it; never was crazy about it. I had no problems with nicking, but I just found it too big to be anything but cumbersome. I much prefer the Merkur; just the right size. Actually my favorite razor is my Edwin Jagger; it's a standard Merkur head, but with a beautiful heavy but sleek and compact handle.

http://www.theenglishshavingcompany.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/CLISR||@cTraditional%20Safety%20Razors@bEdwin%20Ja gger|0|user||10|

John

[guenron]

I had a Vision and sold it; never was crazy about it. I had no problems with nicking, but I just found it too big to be anything but cumbersome. I much prefer the Merkur; just the right size. Actually my favorite razor is my Edwin Jagger; it's a standard Merkur head, but with a beautiful heavy but sleek and compact handle.

http://www.theenglishshavingcompany.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/CLISR||@cTraditional%20Safety%20Razors@bEdwin%20Ja gger|0|user||10|

John
Have one of those too John. Great shaver.. Like the lines too.. Graceful shape.. Hmmm.. I think I like the razor..:tongue_sm

[greendyk]

Ron

I have the Chatsworth Lined Chrome one. What a beauty, both in form and function!! Is that the one you have? Edwin Jagger razors get little or no play on these forums; I wonder why?

John

[guenron]

Ron

I have the Chatsworth Lined Chrome one. What a beauty, both in form and function!! Is that the one you have? Edwin Jagger razors get little or no play on these forums; I wonder why?

John
I have the Chattsworth Lined Gold. Here's a "baby picture:"


http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=2612

I believe the reason that there is little reference to the Edwin Jagger razors really centers around two phenomen. The first is the slavish dedication to the Merkur HD. Almost everyone seems to like the "HD." It's a rather ordinary shaver, nothing remarkable other than the short stubby handle that allows the typical newby to feel like they are in control. Then you have the blogophiles and collectors that are into the rasoir (Gillette?) du jour. It's a provincial situation.:001_rolle

[greendyk]

Wow Ron, yours is even prettier than mine.

Your analysis of why EJs are under the radar makes sense to me. I think a lot of people are missing out on a great shaving tool.

John

[guenron]

John,
I am usually not one to play Who is the Original Equipment Manufacturer like many folks. In most cases it really doesn't matter who the OEM is unless it is a subpar product to begin with. When a manufacturer (OEM) makes a product for a reseller, it is usually to the reseller's specifications and must pass the reseller's quality checks. This leads me to my new rasoir du jour! Snicker if you will. I bought a lovely chrome and gold Warwick handled Geo. F. Trumper razor to keep my Edwin Jagger company. Splendid razor too. If I was to play that silly game in which so many of our community indulge, I would bet that this beauty is also made by the lads in Sheffield.


http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=2781

[greendyk]

Ron

Your Trumper is also beautiful. And I did snicker (knowingly).
What does that Latin phrase say?

John

[guenron]

In my signature? It encapsulates what I have learned the hard way. It translates roughly into "Life is more than just living."