Discussion Thread for Chinese 12K Review...

[joel]

This is a discussion thread for THIS (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=357670#post357670) review!

[daveesq]

My only question is where do you buy them?

[joel]

My only question is where do you buy them?

In the review - there is a link, but to save you some time - you can get it here (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4920).

:smile:

[daveesq]

I feel the fool. My eyes skipped right over the link in the review the first 2 times I read through it. Thanks!

[BOGARTUS]

I bought it and it came last Friday. I lapped it with the diamond course plate (also thanks to Joel).

I honed up a couple of, already sharp razors. I got a modest improvement. I wasn't satisfied. I then lapped my stones on the diamond plate and rehoned from the 4k Norton up the Chinese 12k. Boy what a difference. I think the consistent progression of flat hones made the difference when I got to the 12k. the lightly wet Chinese 12k really brought the razor to a new level of smooth edge for me.

Both the diamond plate and the 12k fit on the norton box

Thanks

[joel]

I bought it and it came last Friday. I lapped it with the diamond course plate (also thanks to Joel).

I honed up a couple of, already sharp razors. I got a modest improvement. I wasn't satisfied. I then lapped my stones on the diamond plate and rehoned from the 4k Norton up the Chinese 12k. Boy what a difference. I think the consistent progression of flat hones made the difference when I got to the 12k. the lightly wet Chinese 12k really brought the razor to a new level of smooth edge for me.

Both the diamond plate and the 12k fit on the norton box

Thanks

Glad it helped!

Really a neat hone, no? For $30, it's REALLY hard to go wrong.

[ucliker]

My problem is I don't no which stone is better the Spyderco or the Chinese 12k
(I have Both :biggrin: )

[rexj]

Is the Spyderco as fine as the Chinese 12k?

[joel]

Is the Spyderco as fine as the Chinese 12k?

I think it's a bit finer.

[ranwill]

I'm on my way to Woodcraft to buy a 12,000 Chinese stone. The guy at the store says that a Norton flattening stone will lap one of these. Is this true or do I need a diamond plate?

Randy

[heavydutysg135]

I'm on my way to Woodcraft to buy a 12,000 Chinese stone. The guy at the store says that a Norton flattening stone will lap one of these. Is this true or do I need a diamond plate?

Randy


I am pretty sure that I remember Lynn saying that he used his Norton lapping stone to lap all his stones including his Chinese 12K. Although I was never in love with the surface that the Norton left on any of my stones, it did flatten everything that I used it on and I don't see any problem with using it on the Chinese 12K. After I purchased my DMT C 325 grit, I sold the Norton because I much preffered the smooth surface that the DMT left on my stones. If you lap the surface of your Chinese 12K and find the surface a little rougher than you like, then I would recommend finishing with 1000 grit sandpaper on a flat block or tile to smooth things out a little.

[joel]

I'm on my way to Woodcraft to buy a 12,000 Chinese stone. The guy at the store says that a Norton flattening stone will lap one of these. Is this true or do I need a diamond plate?

Randy

Randy,
I'd use the diamond lapping plate... but that's just me.

[SteveS]

As it happens, I lapped mine on my DMT 1200 plate last night. It made it flat, but it left a few deep scratches (high spots on the plate, I guess), so I ended up removing those scratches on 320, then 600 wet/dry sandpaper. If I was doing it again, I'd just skip the DMT because the sandpaper would have made it flat in a few minutes anyway . . .

[ranwill]

Thanks for the help. Should have a flat stone tonite. This stuff is making me wierd. I shouldn't look forward to going home to flatten my stone should I?

Randy

[bjrn]

As it happens, I lapped mine on my DMT 1200 plate last night. It made it flat, but it left a few deep scratches (high spots on the plate, I guess), so I ended up removing those scratches on 320, then 600 wet/dry sandpaper. If I was doing it again, I'd just skip the DMT because the sandpaper would have made it flat in a few minutes anyway . . .

I don't know if your DMT is new, but if it is I read that it is a good idea to break it in with some scrap metal, since they do tend to have small unevennesses on them.

[mezzeta]

This is some great information!
Thanks!

[Thomas]

Okay, I was happy enough with my set-up but now I'm wondering if I might get better results incorporating the 12k into my routine between the King 6k and the Flexcut gold or Green Chromium paste. Is it worth the $$$ to add this?

Now, before I go further, I will say that I don't have any further razor acquisitions planned. I've got around four that are waiting for some TLC and will eventually be honed and in the rotation, but after that I've got nothing new on the horizon, and don't see that changing anytime soon.

[TstebinsB]

Price notwithstanding, is the ceramic Shapton 12K that much better than the the Chinese 12K? I know the Shapton costs almost 3x as much. Thanks.

[Doc4]

I'm on my way to Woodcraft to buy a 12,000 Chinese stone. The guy at the store says that a Norton flattening stone will lap one of these. Is this true or do I need a diamond plate?

Randy

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the Norton flattening stone was fine for the Norton hones, but shouldn't be used for other stuff. This may have been in reference to a yellow coticle, or who knows. Anyhow, the impression I got was that if you are only going to lapp a Norton, the Norton Flattener is okay, but if you are going to branch out into other hones, get a diamond plate (and skip the Norton Flattener, as the diamond plate can do Norton hones too.)

[FloppyShoes]

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the Norton flattening stone was fine for the Norton hones, but shouldn't be used for other stuff. This may have been in reference to a yellow coticle, or who knows. Anyhow, the impression I got was that if you are only going to lapp a Norton, the Norton Flattener is okay, but if you are going to branch out into other hones, get a diamond plate (and skip the Norton Flattener, as the diamond plate can do Norton hones too.)

+1

The norton flatening stone is far too coarse to get a good surface on the 12k. The final surface must not only be flat for polishing stones, but also smooth. I generally flatten the surface of mine with a 325 grit diamond hone, then I use my 750 diamond and both sides of my norton 4k/8k to progressively polish the surface until it's smooth. This technique also has the advantage of smoothing and flatening my Norton's 8k side, which I find makes a difference.

[The Invisible Edge]

I found the 12K chinese irritating at first - it's so hard that a blade can skip and 'aquaplane' if you're not careful BUT - I went bats on it with my ceramic lap and strewth what a difference! I find it works best after coming off a BBW or coticule (no idea why) and when used just damp - certainly not flooded off and no slurry to speak of (if you can work one up anyway!). After my jap waterstones it did seem slow at first but the trade-off is a very fine, smooth edge. On some blades I still like the japs better - TI's seem to behave better on them - but for the money especially it is one damned good bit of rock. :biggrin:

[DaveF]

I just bought one of these pre-lapped from an SRP member as my first hone. I have two razors that have been honed by experienced honers, so I am hoping this will let me maintain those edges for a while.

Eventually I realize I will need to get something a little coarser to truly restore my edges but I am hoping that the 12k will put that eventuality off for a while.

At least until I bang the edge of one against the faucet or something...:rolleyes:

[Count Scarlioni]

I just got my Guangxi stone in the mail today. It's a really gorgeous looking piece of rock.

I'm a bit of a newbie to honing, so I have a couple of (possibly stupid) questions.

Dan above suggested that to flatten the stone, we should start off on a coarse diamond hone and then using a Norton 4000/8000 to progressively refine the surface. Is this what I should do, or is the diamond going to be enough?

Secondly, could I/should I buff up my razor on this every every now and again? Would this help delay my having to do a full hone? If so how often (my beard's medium-heavy) would you guess I should do this?

[kelbro]

I just got my Guangxi stone in the mail today. It's a really gorgeous looking piece of rock.

I'm a bit of a newbie to honing, so I have a couple of (possibly stupid) questions.

Dan above suggested that to flatten the stone, we should start off on a coarse diamond hone and then using a Norton 4000/8000 to progressively refine the surface. Is this what I should do, or is the diamond going to be enough?

Secondly, could I/should I buff up my razor on this every every now and again? Would this help delay my having to do a full hone? If so how often (my beard's medium-heavy) would you guess I should do this?

Yes, they do require lapping and it is a hard stone so it might take you a while. DMT8C works well and leaves a smooth enough finish. Don't waste your Norton on it. You also need to put a bevel on the sides. Sharp corners are heck on a blade.

You can use it for periodic touch-ups. It might take you 100 laps or so to make any headway. When? When the strop quits getting your blade scary sharp.

[Count Scarlioni]

Yes, they do require lapping and it is a hard stone so it might take you a while. DMT8C works well and leaves a smooth enough finish. Don't waste your Norton on it. You also need to put a bevel on the sides. Sharp corners are heck on a blade.

You can use it for periodic touch-ups. It might take you 100 laps or so to make any headway. When? When the strop quits getting your blade scary sharp.
Excellent, thanks~

No one was kidding when they said it took forever to flatten this stone! It took me forever on the coarse diamond!:smile:

Now to bevel the sides!

[Doc4]

I just got my Guangxi stone ...

Dan above suggested that to flatten the stone, we should start off on a coarse diamond hone and then using a Norton 4000/8000 to progressively refine the surface. Is this what I should do, or is the diamond going to be enough?



I suspect you'd be "refining the surface" of your Norton instead! :001_rolle



(That Chinese 12k is so hard that the Norton would just bounce off it, IMHO. Besides, your Norton 4k/8k is something you want to flatten as well, not use for flattening & lose the flatness of it.)

[Thunder]

I've been waiting for about a month for an opportunity to get south of the border and pick up one of these 12K's after being steered clear of another escher "like" stone. I've been honing up to the norton 8K and stropping with combinations of 1 micron diamond paste and .5 micron Cro2 until now.

I got one of the 12K's yesterday

I quickly flattened using a marble plate and wet/dry sandpaper and took my razor for 100 laps and straight to the hanging strop (no intervening pastes). The difference is incredible! Whiskers offered no resistance and fell away, no irritation, no scratchiness, even with multiple passes over some of my more difficult areas (still working technique) it was a silky smooth glide across my skin and my first BBS since I picked up the straight about a month ago.

Joel's advice is spot on with this 12K. The price was right and the shave as advertised.

Thanks for the advice!!:001_smile

[kelbro]

I finish hone every blade on the CH12K. Then either linen/leather or straight to the leather.

[Russel Baldridge]

...no slurry to speak of (if you can work one up anyway!).




I actually like to get a slurry started with a diamond hone, do a few passes, clean it off and finish with clean water. Speeds things up a bit, fwiw.

[Kees]

As they are pretty cheap you can also buy a 2nd, smaller one and rub the 2 against each other instead of a diamond hone.

[Mr-Scruffy]

Will the Chinese 12K remove scratches from the 4K and 8K honing stones?

[kelbro]

Will the Chinese 12K remove scratches from the 4K and 8K honing stones?

Most definitely. It takes quite a few strokes but it will put a highly polished edge on a blade.

Try using it dry for a few strokes, then create a slurry and do a few strokes, then wipe the slurry off and try using only water for a few strokes. Inspect under a microscope (or loupe) at each stage and you will be able to see how each method impacts the scratches. When I say a few strokes, I usually do 10-20 complete laps. Maybe 30-40 laps with the water only.

[Russel Baldridge]

Will the Chinese 12K remove scratches from the 4K and 8K honing stones?

With a slurry, yes.

At least mine won't remove 4k scratches when dry or with plain water. It needs that extra grit in the water to do the job.

[Utopian]

I don't like buying anything from China but I made an exception for this stone. I really, really like it and use it all the time. To anyone considering lapping it with a Norton lapping stone, don't. It will ruin your Norton stone and just slightly irritate your Chines hone--it's just too hard.

This is a great stone for a final polish. I use it after an Escher that is after a coticule. I do 25-50 laps slightly damp and then 50-75 laps dry. Even though this stone is extremely hard, it seems to work better with frequent lapping. I would assume that this is due to refreshing the surface.

I really like the suggestion of buying a smaller stone to use as a rubbing stone. Even though I have two diamond plates, it might be fun to try building a slurry on this beast with a second stone.

[kelbro]

Since they are so big, I have considered cutting about 1.5" off one end to make a slurry stone but I am afraid that I don't have anything that would cut it.