Alright Losers, what happened with my first SE shave?

[rxonmymind]

Scored an amazing haul today and with it was a nice Gem G-Bar many of you are familiar with. Put in one of those coated blades and went to work. Usual prep with PSGT went WTG and ATG. So far good. Relathered again went ATG and BAM! I started to look like a porcupine sat on my face. Seven weepers where I shaved and counting. Never happened to me on any razor. Not even an OC. I stopped, switched to my Future to finish up and by the end of the shave all the weepers had disappeared. Man, NOT what I was expecting.

[turtle]

Did you get the bade positioned correctly in the head? If you are not careful you can get it on TOP of the side stops which would make it like a straight razor not a safety razor.

Just shaved with my push button GEM tonight (midnight shave). Close comfortable, no weepers, no irritation at all. Closer shave then I have gotten with any DE or straight razor. AND the push button is not supposed to be all that good of a SE razor either. AND I am on shave 7 with the same blade....

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u414/turtle-web/SPOTD/5-20-2012_sotd_gem_pb.jpg

[rxonmymind]

Hey Turtle!
Yup loaded fine. It's a no brainer. The only thing I did differently than usual is I did one less pass than usual before my ATG. So must have pulled a lot of hairs out of the pores instead of cutting?

[turtle]

Did you use a very shallow angle (5° is what most SE razors like instead of 30° that a DE likes). It almost feels like the top of the head is against your face when it is at the correct angle.

[rxonmymind]

Yup. I remember I had to get the head real close and thought how cool it was. But come to think about it I'm not sure if I did this ATG. Hmm. It certainly gave a great DFS shave. But going for that BBS hurt. Lots of scraping ...

[kcb5150]

Maybe your blade was a dud? The G bar is as mild as a superspeed but with a se blade......

[kcb5150]

I actually reach for that when I need to shave and my skin is kind of not up for shaving.... Something was up... That handle design kind of forces you to use correct angle with and against.

[Azarius]

I have had a few weepers myself from the coated blades, usually on the first shave. Never had a problem with the G-Bar or Push Button though, they seem to work just for me in those two.

[willyb]

i would bet cash money, the head angle against your skin was off. when shaving wtg, or (down) the handle needs to point at the wall instead of the floor... in other words, the head needs to be almost flat against skin. When going to SE this can be the speedbump most de users run into. Result, drag and pull. Think of an SE as a minny straight. entire blade almost flat against skin, short motion, rinse repeat.

[retturn2blades]

I've noticed some of my old SE razors are not square and plumb...I guess from drops, abuse, tossed around. Fortunately, all but one still seem to function OK but I can see where this could make for some unpleasant shaves if the problem is severe enough.

[stvince71]

I'm betting that it was because it was a new blade. I have found that the first shave with a SS blade tend to be on the harsh side. Ted Pella's are even worse. Don't pass judgment on the SE shave until at least the 3rd shave.

[Azarius]

I'm betting that it was because it was a new blade. I have found that the first shave with a SS blade tend to be on the harsh side. Ted Pella's are even worse. Don't pass judgment on the SE shave until at least the 3rd shave.

I keep hearing this, and I have to say, it is just fuzzy logic. I should not have to wait until shave number three to have a good shave.

I have been having the same problem with the Ted Pella's, it is not until shave three do they start showing signs of being a good blade. So with that being said, what are we suppose to do for shaves one and two, just suffer through them?

Not sure if corking will work or not but having two bad shaves before having a good one is not acceptable in my book.

[jbradley]

I keep hearing this, and I have to say, it is just fuzzy logic. I should not have to wait until shave number three to have a good shave.

I have been having the same problem with the Ted Pella's, it is not until shave three do they start showing signs of being a good blade. So with that being said, what are we suppose to do for shaves one and two, just suffer through them?

Not sure if corking will work or not but having two bad shaves before having a good one is not acceptable in my book.

+1. Can't accept that. I had my fill of razor burn, rash, bleeders and weepers from carts. That's why I wet shave now.

[stvince71]

I keep hearing this, and I have to say, it is just fuzzy logic. I should not have to wait until shave number three to have a good shave.

I have been having the same problem with the Ted Pella's, it is not until shave three do they start showing signs of being a good blade. So with that being said, what are we suppose to do for shaves one and two, just suffer through them?

Not sure if corking will work or not but having two bad shaves before having a good one is not acceptable in my book.

I don't know what you mean by fuzzy logic, but, since you are having the same issue that I and a couple others are having, sthere has to be some merit to what I'm saying. To me, the Ted Pella's are a harsher shave than the Walgreen's Gem SS blades. As for what to do? All I can think of is not to use them. Just go with either the normal Gem SS or maybe try the carbons out. We are kind of limited by our blade selection. Or you can do a quick 2 pass to help age the blade before going for the all out BBS. I'm sorry I can't be any more of help but that's all I've got until we find a new blde somewhere.

[Klopstick]

I agree that the first shave off the Ted Pella's can be harsh but smooths out about shave 3.

I have been trying "corking" by very lightly pulling (no pressure) the edge through the corner of my shavestick lid. (OK, not really through; it barely bites in, it just skates on it) It's a polypropylene material like milk jug stuff. I think it came from MamaBear. I suspect that works as well as corking does. I do a bit of hand strop after as well. that seems to make the first shave less harsh, and doesn't reduce the number of shaves I can get.

[rxonmymind]

Boy, I opened a can of worms.:laugh: These are fine blades for DFS WTG and XTG passes thus making them a great quick five minute weekender blades, which btw are much better than carts! The prep & lather took longer than the shave. Anyhow, the eighteen blades should last a loooooooooooooong time at this pace:001_tongu:

[Go West Young Man]

How bad was your first DE shave?

[stvince71]

I agree that the first shave off the Ted Pella's can be harsh but smooths out about shave 3.

I have been trying "corking" by very lightly pulling (no pressure) the edge through the corner of my shavestick lid. (OK, not really through; it barely bites in, it just skates on it) It's a polypropylene material like milk jug stuff. I think it came from MamaBear. I suspect that works as well as corking does. I do a bit of hand strop after as well. that seems to make the first shave less harsh, and doesn't reduce the number of shaves I can get.

Thinking about, those of us that have strops and blade holders could just run the blade on the strop a couple of times befwore the first shave. I have 1 Pella left that was PIFd to me. I'll try ut tomorrow and give you guys the run down.

[turtle]

Thinking about, those of us that have strops and blade holders could just run the blade on the strop a couple of times befwore the first shave. I have 1 Pella left that was PIFd to me. I'll try ut tomorrow and give you guys the run down.

this would sort of defeat the PTFE coating I would think. Couple of laps on the strop and it would be straight stainless with no coating.

[rxonmymind]

How bad was your first DE shave?

Like a duck to water. Flawless. Unlike a duck it took 30 minutes to shave:laugh:

[Azarius]

I don't know what you mean by fuzzy logic, but, since you are having the same issue that I and a couple others are having, sthere has to be some merit to what I'm saying. To me, the Ted Pella's are a harsher shave than the Walgreen's Gem SS blades. As for what to do? All I can think of is not to use them. Just go with either the normal Gem SS or maybe try the carbons out. We are kind of limited by our blade selection. Or you can do a quick 2 pass to help age the blade before going for the all out BBS. I'm sorry I can't be any more of help but that's all I've got until we find a new blde somewhere.

I agree that the Ted Pella blades are not performing well until the 3rd shave. The fuzzy logic is that anyone should have to accept bad shaves from a blade until shave number three. Just because people repeat the same mantra that these blades don't get good until shave number three does not mean we should accept that as normal. A blade shoud perform well from shave number one in my book.

The Walgreens and CVS blades have performed well in every SE that I have loaded them into, I expect the same out of any blade I use.

I returned back to classic shaving so I would not have to put up with bad shaves. I do not think putting up with two bad days of shaving is acceptable. I'll PIF them or use them as paint scrappers before tolerating any more bad shaves.

[Haggises]

Is this where corking would help?

[Haggises]

that'll teach me to post on Page 2 without reading Page 1 :001_smile

[rxonmymind]

Hear! Hear! Paint scrapers! ( I just so happen to have one on me) A sign from the shaving gods! :laugh:

[Cicatero]

this would sort of defeat the PTFE coating I would think. Couple of laps on the strop and it would be straight stainless with no coating.


I suspect that the teflon (PTFE) coating Gem uses is more resilient than you think.

Here is a Gem Blue Star carbon blade I manually stropped on one of my straight razor strops, about 20 strokes and then used three days in a row in my OCMM:
245485

As you can see, the sides of the blade are already well patinaed, but the edge is still bright. I think that is because there's still some of the original PTFE coating on the edge preventing oxidization.

[The Kiwi]

I agree that the first shave off the Ted Pella's can be harsh but smooths out about shave 3.



That just makes no logical rationale for a bad shave, sorry. Yes, we paid a fortune for Gillette's carts, and could be forgiven for stretching those beyond comfort limits, but as inexpensive as perfectly good DE/SE blades are, no one should be putting up with "bad shaves" for the sake of total mileage.

[stvince71]

I agree that the Ted Pella blades are not performing well until the 3rd shave. The fuzzy logic is that anyone should have to accept bad shaves from a blade until shave number three. Just because people repeat the same mantra that these blades don't get good until shave number three does not mean we should accept that as normal. A blade shoud perform well from shave number one in my book.

The Walgreens and CVS blades have performed well in every SE that I have loaded them into, I expect the same out of any blade I use.

I returned back to classic shaving so I would not have to put up with bad shaves. I do not think putting up with two bad days of shaving is acceptable. I'll PIF them or use them as paint scrappers before tolerating any more bad shaves.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I whole heartedly agree. But of course, that's why I don't use the Pella blades. As for the carbons, which do you prefer? The Gem Blues or a different brand? I don't know if I could find any others in my area.

I must say though that I have been moving more in the direction of the wedge blade razors. My Empire gives great shaves without the need for the break in period. And I can't wait for my second Rolls set to come so that I can try that one out.

What Cicatero said turtle.

[Rob72]

I suspect that the teflon (PTFE) coating Gem uses is more resilient than you think.

Here is a Gem Blue Star carbon blade I manually stropped on one of my straight razor strops, about 20 strokes and then used three days in a row in my OCMM:


As you can see, the sides of the blade are already well patinaed, but the edge is still bright. I think that is because there's still some of the original PTFE coating on the edge preventing oxidization.
If the blade has been honed or stropped, the Teflon (PTFE) coating has been removed from the area honed/stropped(i.e., the edge). It will still cover the rest of the blade, however. PTFE is a surface coating a few microns thick, with no surface penetration, unless the surface itself is porus, which is why the current mil-spec is PTFE over parkerizing- which has a highly porus crystalline surface.

[Azarius]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I whole heartedly agree. But of course, that's why I don't use the Pella blades. As for the carbons, which do you prefer? The Gem Blues or a different brand? I don't know if I could find any others in my area.

I must say though that I have been moving more in the direction of the wedge blade razors. My Empire gives great shaves without the need for the break in period. And I can't wait for my second Rolls set to come so that I can try that one out.

What Cicatero said turtle.

So far the only carbon I have used has been the CVS brand, and that is purely out of laziness. I need to try some others to see how they perform.

Speaking of blades, I better get to shaving, I am due in the office in the next 45 minutes, thank goodness I only live 3 miles from my shop.

[InsecureSpike]

i shave ONLY ATG, and ONLY use each blade ONCE?!?!

[Azarius]

I wanted to make note, although many of us are having the same issues with the Ted Pella blades, I would like to make it perfectly clear that this is not a bitch and moan session about the group buy. Brian did a lot of work to pull together this group buy and for that we all should be appreciative of his hard work.

All of us who purchased them without ever using them, myself included in that group, did so based on other user comments and experiences with the blades. Now many people, after the fact are repeating the same thing, over and over "the do not get good until around shave three". As previously stated, I for one do not find it acceptable to expect a two bad shaves before a blade performs well, a blade should work as expected from shave one.

As with any blade, YMMV, but there seems to be far more users that are having bad experiences with these, than positive. If anyone has any input on these blades that stop the weepers, raspberries and irritation, it would be much appreciated if you could share your tips.

I am sitting on about 225 or some of them at the moment, as I have been PIFing a lot for others to try out. I am almost afraid to list the remainder on B/S/T without a major disclaimer.

[stvince71]

That just makes no logical rationale for a bad shave, sorry. Yes, we paid a fortune for Gillette's carts, and could be forgiven for stretching those beyond comfort limits, but as inexpensive as perfectly good DE/SE blades are, no one should be putting up with "bad shaves" for the sake of total mileage.

Logic has nothing to do with it. Some of us here find that the Pella blades don't hit their stride until the third shave. Why? I don't know.

When I first started classic shaving it was for the cost savings. But over time, I am now more into the hunt for the perfect shave. Being able to consistantly achieve BBS without cuts, weepers, or irritation is my goal. The Zen quality of this type of shave. This has become my excuse to have "My Time". To get away from the wife and kids for some quiet. The mileage would be nice but is not essential.

[brianw]

I for one have used nothing but the TP for going on 2 years. Maybe it's my leathery skin, or my advancing age that I can't remember yesterday...but I started Gemini with a fresh Pella in a Damaskeene and both shaves were absolutely fantastic. No hand stropping (don't strop anything but my straight razors) nothing. As always....YMMV

[Azarius]

I for one have used nothing but the TP for going on 2 years. Maybe it's my leathery skin, or my advancing age that I can't remember yesterday...but I started Gemini with a fresh Pella in a Damaskeene and both shaves were absolutely fantastic. No hand stropping (don't strop anything but my straight razors) nothing. As always....YMMV


I have been shaving twice per day trying to get my skin more leathery, does not seem to be happening quick enough though :001_rolle

[rxonmymind]

I have been shaving twice per day trying to get my skin more leathery, does not seem to be happening quick enough though :001_rolle

So a new acronym> BBLS? Just doesn't have the same ring to it. Although, Baby smooth calf skin shave? Hmm, kinda homie country ring to it.:laugh:

Anyhow, glad you brought this up about an individuals effort. The performance of these blades are seperate from Brians efforts which he has no control over. Glad he put it together as I see a lot of merit to the SE shave and wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been "free". Like I said, this is a great blade for DFS WTG and had zero issue this way.

[jbradley]

I corked one of the coated blades last night and used it this morning in my G-Bar. I had shaved with it once, then corked it. It was an entirely different shave. No pulling, no weepers, DFS. I don't know if it was the corking or because I had used it once already.

[bakerbarber]

I corked one of the coated blades last night and used it this morning in my G-Bar. I had shaved with it once, then corked it. It was an entirely different shave. No pulling, no weepers, DFS. I don't know if it was the corking or because I had used it once already.


I keep a cork in my shave den and in the past used is on Feather DE blades.

This morning I was in the mood, and loaded up my Gem Jr. with a new blade. It was a close shave, but I got a few weepers. The first thing I thought of when I was rubbing my alum block was, why didn't I cork that blade!!

I think it's worth the effort and short amount of time. A palm strop could give similar results.

Some blades are sharp and rough. Maybe it's a microscopic wire edge? Maybe it's just a lack of stropping by the manufacturer?

I've learned a lot about safety razor shaving by browsing the Straight Razor threads. The process and methods of keeping a straight shave ready is good perspective for shaving. At least having a little knowledge about how blades take an edge helps. Especially when using a SE that is much thicker than a DE.

Modern DE blades have completely different angles from older DE blades from what I've read. They are difficult to hone and don't take to a stropping very well.

I'm curious how the edge of modern SE blades compares to older SE blades sold solely for the purpose of shaving. They absolutely give me a great shave and last much longer than DE blades. They feel much more rigid than a DE and more consistent. I may be reaching for my DE less and less...

[Old Prohaska]

I've been palm-stropping the Pella blades prior to the first use, and haven't had any issues with weepers or irritation (but I think I still prefer the shave I get with my Red Tip Super Speed DE).

-Old P.

[InsecureSpike]

BLASPHEMY!!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



(but I think I still prefer the shave I get with my Red Tip Super Speed DE).

-Old P.

[bluesbishop]

I have been shaving twice per day trying to get my skin more leathery, does not seem to be happening quick enough though :001_rolle

Drink more whisky, smoke more cigarettes and stay out in the hot Florida sun for a bit...you will have leather skin....heck just look at my ex wife!! LOL!!:tongue_sm

[stvince71]

Tried my stropping experiment today. Stropped the Pella about 10 times and shaved as normal. I would rate it between shaves 2 and 3 as far as irritation goes. No weepers, nicks or irritation. But not as comfortable as a shave 4. It could be the placebo effect, but I don't think so.

[woodfluter]

Wow. A genuine concern, but very different from my experience.

I bought into the group buy only after getting 100 of the same blade from another source, so understood what I was getting. I did find the first one or two (certainly not three) shaves were *slightly* more prone to give burn, in the more "aggressive" razors mostly, and primarily if I was using a higher shaving angle (yes, I've experimented). In most cases, at a low angle, nothing worth noting.

But I did find that stropping against my forearm before the first shave, about 5-10x per side, made the first shave the same as all the others. So wrote this off as a fairly minor wire edge issue. Never gave it much more thought, just automatically whisked each new blade on my arm and forgot about it.

This isn't unique to these blades. I usually do the same to Feathers, whether they need it or not.

I hear about "palm stropping", but that's a pretty short surface. Maybe a harder surface, but I like using the length of the inside of my forearm and moving it briskly. Just don't reverse!

*** Edit***
On reflection, I really only strop 3-5 times per side. Big difference!

[Azarius]

Wow. A genuine concern, but very different from my experience.

I bought into the group buy only after getting 100 of the same blade from another source, so understood what I was getting. I did find the first one or two (certainly not three) shaves were *slightly* more prone to give burn, in the more "aggressive" razors mostly, and primarily if I was using a higher shaving angle (yes, I've experimented). In most cases, at a low angle, nothing worth noting.

But I did find that stropping against my forearm before the first shave, about 5-10x per side, made the first shave the same as all the others. So wrote this off as a fairly minor wire edge issue. Never gave it much more thought, just automatically whisked each new blade on my arm and forgot about it.

This isn't unique to these blades. I usually do the same to Feathers, whether they need it or not.

I hear about "palm stropping", but that's a pretty short surface. Maybe a harder surface, but I like using the length of the inside of my forearm and moving it briskly. Just don't reverse!

I will need to try that as I have been palm stropping.

[Haggises]

Stropping on the inside of the forearm is just a little too risky for me!

[stvince71]

Stropping on the inside of the forearm is just a little too risky for me!

+1 I'll stick to using my strops for stropping.

[JDTTO]

What are the PTFE blades actually made for? So far I have not been able to find a conclusive answer apart from "industrial use" which could mean about anything except shaving.

[cpool222]

I'm with the folks who suggest you might have not used the right angle on that ATG pass. It's hard to remember to do that when you first start SE shaving. Re: the blades, I love the GEM Personna blades available at Walgreen's. I never have any trouble with them, rarely nick myself and get lots more shaves out of them than many other blades. I think it's a good idea for us to use the local stores so they'll keep them in stock. Just My Opinion

[Touchy]

I am much newer to the SE world than the DE. I started w/ a '12 and recently acquired a G-bar, an OCMM as well as a 60s or 70s Schick (it came with the KRONA blades). I'm still , experimenting with the Pellas and some CVS carbons as these are the only 2 I have. I'm wondering if technique may be as much a factor when evaluating blades, and from style to style. the OCMM is taking me more time to learn though I've only used it a few times. I am finding that blade angles must change from the '12 and the OC, for example. Totally different. The jury is still out on the different models and blades.And if I have to PIF the TPs or send them to the garage, big deal. Getting into the B&B forum guarantees that for most of us! I have sensitive skin (hey, I'm Touchy!) and I've had fine shaves and some rough ones with SEs, but I get very few cuts from any razor and only one weeper ever. And after watching the TGS shaving video have given up entirely on ATG passes, except on my neck and chin underside. A comfortable shave is way more important for me than a BBS. It's great that we have this thread to share experience and ideas. Long live the LOSERs!!!!

[Touchy]

Haven't tried the W's but will do so. And +1 on buying at stores - especially if you get many shaves per blade!

[Cicatero]

What are the PTFE blades actually made for? So far I have not been able to find a conclusive answer apart from "industrial use" which could mean about anything except shaving.

I think they're mostly used for specimen preparation in forensics and histology, that and for drawing out lines of coke on a mirror. :lol:

[Touchy]

+1. But don't forget other often-used powered substances!