Question

[cedwa2]

I'm wanting to start honing razors, but have to admit it's daunting trying to figure out exactly what I need. I don't have a lot of money to spend so I'm trying to figure out what 's the minimum required set up to produce a shave ready edge. I realize there are many different methods and/or hone combinations / opinions, but I'm interested to see what you guys would recommend. I'm not in a hurry so if it takes me awhile to save up for the right gear I don't mind .

I've already ordered a Norton Waterstone starter kit. Do I need a lower grit finishing stone in addition to the 8000 grit norton? Such as a shapton 16000 grit. If I do need the shapton can I use the Norton SiC Flattening stone to lap it?

Thanks


Chris

[hotdog]

I started with a KING 1000 for bevel setting and then a Norton 4k/8k and could get good shave ready edges. I would not use the Norton flattening stone, instead use a granite or marble plate/block(can be bought at Lowe's or Home Depot) and wet/dry 600 sandpaper to flatten the hones. Then when you get good with these to start, you can invest in more expensive equipment like COTI's, Shapton's and the many others that are out there. GOOD LUCK

[Gamma]

16k is a higher grit than 8k, not lower. Need - is a subjective term here. Objectively, once you learn how to max out on the 8k, you can figure out whether or not you need/want/both a higher grit finisher. Me - personally - I can't shave comfortably with a Norton 8k edge. Other members have said that a Norton 8k is fine for them to finish on.
Shapton makes Pro stones and Glass stones - I don't know for sure if the Norton flattening stone would work on either, but I would guess that it would be fine.
You might need to flatten the flattener stone though.. you can do what with 220 grit w/d paper on a tile or glass or something.

[Bluebriz]

If you're wanting to keep costs down, you could give lapping film a try. Many experienced guys on here swear by it. This thread has lots of info.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it

[Doc226]

If you're wanting to keep costs down, you could give lapping film a try. Many experienced guys on here swear by it. This thread has lots of info.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it
This or a coticule.

[Earcutter]

16k is a higher grit than 8k, not lower. Need - is a subjective term here. Objectively, once you learn how to max out on the 8k, you can figure out whether or not you need/want/both a higher grit finisher. Me - personally - I can't shave comfortably with a Norton 8k edge. Other members have said that a Norton 8k is fine for them to finish on.
Shapton makes Pro stones and Glass stones - I don't know for sure if the Norton flattening stone would work on either, but I would guess that it would be fine.
You might need to flatten the flattener stone though.. you can do what with 220 grit w/d paper on a tile or glass or something.
I think that's wrong - a DMT is needed at min - or the lapping stone they make and it's... $ DEAR $.

This or a coticule. That's what I did. A coticule is great at just about everything IMO one you get to know it, except setting a bevel. A 1K Naniwa, and a Coti, maybe even a cheap Chinese 12K later will take a guy like me miles.

[Legion]

I think that's wrong - a DMT is needed at min - or the lapping stone they make and it's... $ DEAR $.
That's what I did. A coticule is great at just about everything IMO one you get to know it, except setting a bevel. A 1K Naniwa, and a Coti, maybe even a cheap Chinese 12K later will take a guy like me miles.

A coticule can set a bevel. My fast LPB's and Dressant set bevels no problems.

[Kentos]

A coticule can set a bevel. My fast LPB's and Dressant set bevels no problems.

+1

A couple rounds on fresh slurry sets bevels quite easily on an edge dulled on glass. I even took a chip out of a vintage Kamisori with one...it just takes a while. Really wonky blades may take ages...but it can be done.

Honing films are the next hot thing in honing around these parts, and for very little buy in many are enjoying great shaves...

[Earcutter]

A coticule can set a bevel. My fast LPB's and Dressant set bevels no problems.


+1

A couple rounds on fresh slurry sets bevels quite easily on an edge dulled on glass. I even took a chip out of a vintage Kamisori with one...it just takes a while. Really wonky blades may take ages...but it can be done.

Honing films are the next hot thing in honing around these parts, and for very little buy in many are enjoying great shaves...

And that's why you guys rock - seriously! I need to give my Coti more love.

[gumbo]

If I had to do it all over again I would have skipped all the Norton stuff and just bought a coticule.

[Gamma]

I think that's wrong - a DMT is needed at min - or the lapping stone they make and it's... $ DEAR $.

I don't believe you need a DMT to flatten either the Glass Stones or the Pro Stones. In fact, I don't believe anyone 'needs' a DMT for anything.
Yes - the Shapton lapping stone is expensive, but I've read that it's not an absolute necessity.
In any case, The Norton flattening stone has been reported to arrive not-flat, and it can be lapped flat on w/d.

[Earcutter]

I think that's wrong - a DMT is needed at min - or the lapping stone they make and it's... $ DEAR $.

I don't believe you need a DMT to flatten either the Glass Stones or the Pro Stones. In fact, I don't believe anyone 'needs' a DMT for anything.
Yes - the Shapton lapping stone is expensive, but I've read that it's not an absolute necessity.
In any case, The Norton flattening stone has been reported to arrive not-flat, and it can be lapped flat on w/d.

Sorry Gamma - i wouldn't know 100% as I don't own a Shapton. I should have been clear about that. I spent a bit of time researching that stone thinking it might be fun. Anyway - that was the consensus I came to from "my" readings.

Heck you are 100% right about the DMT. If you have a nice hard stone/surface and Maybe some sandpaper, you are good to go.

[hotdog]

Only thing about getting a DMT when starting out is you stand a chance of destroying it before you can get any use out of it as others here can attest.
You can buy many, many sheets of wet/dry sandpaper and a leveling plane for very little..then after you have more experience you could invest in a DMT.
I have one that I seldom use as I prefer the wet/dry sandpaper.

[whipdog]

I've got a three line swaty that I will give you if you want it. Just let me know

[cedwa2]

So why wouldn't you use the Norton flattening stone.

[bkfist]

+1 on lapping films.

You can put super edge on a straight with nothing but some wet/dry paper to set the bevel and some lapping films and a flat piece of glass to put the paper/films on.

[hotdog]

So why wouldn't you use the Norton flattening stone.

The Norton flattening stone often need to be flattened themselves and I feel you get better results with other methods.

[global_dev]

Only thing about getting a DMT when starting out is you stand a chance of destroying it before you can get any use out of it as others here can attest.


i hadn't heard this... my DMTs (XC, C, F, E ) have been good for over 18 months and i had no idea what i was doing at first...

[Raithskar]

A coticule can set a bevel. My fast LPB's and Dressant set bevels no problems.

+2 Same with my La Dressante it is fast. I also have a La Vienette bout that just eats the metal away.

[hotdog]

i hadn't heard this... my DMTs (XC, C, F, E ) have been good for over 18 months and i had no idea what i was doing at first...

I was referring to using a DMT for flattening other stones only. some have tried it on the harder stones such as CNAT and it pretty much destroyed the DMT.

[hokahay]

I was referring to using a DMT for flattening other stones only. some have tried it on the harder stones such as CNAT and it pretty much destroyed the DMT.

How do you flatten that darn CNAT anyway. It laughed at my DMT and norton flattening only suffering some scratches. I have one of those wicked granite flat surfaces now. That thing is wicked! I guess i just need a paper recommendation. I did buy the films already so I'm not looking for a just use film answer here.

[fccexpert]

Are you going to be honing your own razors? If so, all you really need is a Norton 4/8K waterstone. If, on the otherhand, you are planning to go into business, you might need something more exotic (and expensive) so that people think you know what you are doing. If you are going to be restoring razors that are very dull, you might want a coarser stone to speed up the process of re-establishing the initial bevel.

[hotdog]

How do you flatten that darn CNAT anyway. It laughed at my DMT and norton flattening only suffering some scratches. I have one of those wicked granite flat surfaces now. That thing is wicked! I guess i just need a paper recommendation. I did buy the films already so I'm not looking for a just use film answer here.

I use wet/dry sandpaper starting around 220 grit and finish on 600 grit and YES it is a lot of work, but once they are flattened they last a long time before needing it again.