Courtesy of a Reply?

[Face&Head]

So this is a fairly simple question but one that has visited me twice in the last month or so. We've all read noob posts where they are trying to decide on the right brush, razor or blade to use. Sometimes after reading these I'll PM the OP to offer an extended loan of a brush or razor to help inform their decision. With blades I just PIF 6 or so. Shipping all at my expense. When I've made these kinds of offers to more experienced B&Bers I always get a response. Absolutely 100% of the time. They may take me up on it or not, but never ignore the offer. With the noobs who prompted this post they simply didn't respond at all. Am I being old-fashioned & persnickety to think that's not the proper way to decline an offer?

[takeshi]

I wouldn't consider it proper but what can you do about it? FWIW, I rarely check PM's on any of the discussion forum sites that I visit. Some people may have a reason but that wouldn't explain why your in your experience none of the newbies respond but all vets do. Seems like all you can do is make an offer with no expectation of a response.

[michiganlover]

The gentlemanly thing to do would be to reply, especially if you are offering them free gear, in which case it would be extremely bad form not to reply.

But as with regular email, sometimes people get busy, and forget to reply. It happens.

But still, it's not setting a very good first impression as a newbie, if you don't reply to the advice from an established member.

Related, attitude is everything. There are a lot of us here, who have given away lots of free gear. But trust me, if you have an uncaring attitude, or an attitude of entitlement, rest assured there is no way you are getting something for nothing (at least from me).

[fonkemonkey]

You are right. They should give the courtesy of a response. But there is no reason for you to let it get to you. You a trying to do a nice thing and they are missing out on a great opportunity. No loss for you.

[DFSDAILY]

The gentlemanly thing to do would be to reply, especially if you are offering them free gear, in which case it would be extremely bad form not to reply.

But as with regular email, sometimes people get busy, and forget to reply. It happens.

But still, it's not setting a very good first impression as a newbie, if you don't reply to the advice from an established member.

Related, attitude is everything. There are a lot of us here, who have given away lots of free gear. But trust me, if you have an uncaring attitude, or an attitude of entitlement, rest assured there is no way you are getting something for nothing (at least from me).

I like this response.

[Kentos]

Some people may be wary of a seemingly "to good to be true" offer, especially when giving out your name and address to a complete stranger over the internet. While I agree at least a "no thank you" would be nice, I dont let such things bother me too much :).

[Oscroft]

One thing worth bearing in mind is that not everyone is internet-savvy, and a lot of people will be afraid of replying to PMs because they don't know how much personal information (email address etc) might be revealed.

Regulars here will know how the PM system works and won't be concerned, but newbies may not properly understand it.

[Chevyguy]

For me the lack of a reply sits right up there next to the misspelling of words in emails and texting, and answering your phone without excusing yourself when you are talking to soneone face to face.

Clayton

[Chevyguy]

One thing worth bearing in mind is that not everyone is internet-savvy, and a lot of people will be afraid of replying to PMs because they don't know how much personal information (email address etc) might be revealed.

Regulars here will know how the PM system works and won't be concerned, but newbies may not properly understand it.
All they have to do is look in their profile and they can see what gets sent. When you join B&B you set in your profile how much information you want to show in your postings and PM's.

Clayton

[brucea]

If they are new they also might know how to check what they recently posted. Give them a little time to get the lay of the land and they may respond.If not ,they lost out . The person that does respond gets rewarded for their courtesy.

[dangersteve]

As with any new communication medium, standards for rudeness, politeness, and obligation evolve as people get more experience with them. When I first joined the Internet, every single email I got deserved a response, as there was no spam and every other user was also in an academic institution. Back then an email was like a personally handwritten letter on fine stationery. No longer.

Now, there are so many ways for people to contact me, email, PMs on 20 forums, Facebook, twitter, g+, and on and on. If I treated each of these as an obligation I would go crazy. Also there's no way on a board such as this to turn off PMs if you never intend on checking them. It's not a good system when others can create obligations for you, without a way to politely refuse them without effort.

So while some will religiously check these places for messages and treat them like traditional correspondence, others do not check and do not consider checking an obligation. And the world at large hasn't settled on a set of universal conventions for what's rude or not. So you'll often find situations like this where people view rudeness differently.

I just hope that people can be patient with others while conventions become popular, because very likely the other person does not intend on being rude, they just didn't realize an action was perceived as rude.

[oc_in_fw]

Some people may be wary of a seemingly "to good to be true" offer, especially when giving out your name and address to a complete stranger over the internet. While I agree at least a "no thank you" would be nice, I dont let such things bother me too much :).

Glad I read through- it was exactly what I was thinking. When I first rolled in here I couldn't believe how generous the members are. Being a jaded person, I thought it had to be too good to be true. It takes some a while to realize that there is not a hidden agenda here and this place is full of gentlemen (unlike the real world)

[Oscroft]

All they have to do is look in their profile and they can see what gets sent. When you join B&B you set in your profile how much information you want to show in your postings and PM's.

Clayton

Yes, I know that, and it's easy for you and I to understand. But I work professionally on commercial web forums, and a lot of people genuinely don't understand things properly and really are afraid of personal contact - you might be surprised at the number of people who don't even know they have such a thing as a personal profile on sites like this.

[jtb]

I wonder if it has to do with age. I think you should respond but I'm amost 50 :001_tt2:

Here's an example of an incident I had (non-b&b related). I lined up a baby sitter last week, a simple text to set everything up (she's a regular). I had to cancel with her so I texted her that we need to cancel. I did this over 24 hrs before she was supposed to start, I waited overnight for a reply then finally texted her asking if she recieved the previous text. She said she did, so why didn't she just text back a simple ok? or contact me next time. I think it has to do with age and this new fangled way we communicate.

[BrookR1]

While it may be a good-hearted reach to those noobs, they may view you as a stranger with candy. They may not understand what your intentions are. Giving away your address to a stranger or even striking up a casual PM with with a stranger on a new board may raise a few red flags. So I think with the noobs, it might be best to address them in the forum publicly. At least until they get to know you better.

[Face&Head]

Ok, I guess the consensus is I just shrug and move on. It hasn't bothered me much but it does make me scratch my head sometimes and was curious why more experienced B&Bers were different and I think some of the explanations above make sense.

[TnutsShave]

I'm glad I saw this thread...I always respond and realized that I hadn't!

[mdevine]

Yes, I know that, and it's easy for you and I to understand. But I work professionally on commercial web forums, and a lot of people genuinely don't understand things properly and really are afraid of personal contact - you might be surprised at the number of people who don't even know they have such a thing as a personal profile on sites like this.

I can understand the hesitancy of someone new to this forum to reply to a PM. When I first joined B&B, I had never been an active participant in any forum, despite being someone who has been connected since the days of BBS and 2600 baud modems. I felt very uncomfortable with online interaction at first. Early into my participation here, someone offered to PIF me a beater Gillette New. I remember being flustered and I think I wrote back saying "no thank you". I grew up in a time and place where you didn't take a handout unless you absolutely needed it, and I would have felt guilty to accept it at the time. I certainly didn't mean this as any kind of insult. Over the past couple of years, I've come to appreciate the unique and generous spirit of B&B, and have had a couple of members send me things that I've been most appreciative of. I've tried to keep with the spirit of paying forward and have happily sent packages to other members. I try not to be too harsh judging those that are new here based on my own experiences. BTW, I still feel a little guilty when I'm on the receiving end of someone's generosity, whether here or in my home life. I always fear that this will make me appear ungrateful when nothing can be further from the truth.

[gopher4653]

I'm a relative noobie here, have no idea how to stay on top of the forums I posted in and didn't even know I had a mailbox here... unfortunately it wasn't filled with offers of riches, but now I know it exists and thanks!

[Alraz]

Some people are very private and see these offers as solicitation. It is so nice of you to try and it does not excuse the lack of response though.

Al raz.

[fine wine]

I wonder if it has to do with age. I think you should respond but I'm amost 50 :001_tt2:

Here's an example of an incident I had (non-b&b related). I lined up a baby sitter last week, a simple text to set everything up (she's a regular). I had to cancel with her so I texted her that we need to cancel. I did this over 24 hrs before she was supposed to start, I waited overnight for a reply then finally texted her asking if she recieved the previous text. She said she did, so why didn't she just text back a simple ok? or contact me next time. I think it has to do with age and this new fangled way we communicate.
You sir hit the nail right on the head! Aside from the fact younger people are lossing their manners, not all, just the ones who weren't raised right, YES I SAID IT! This new kind of communicating has put to much distance between people. I feel we are lossing the human touch......JR

[beengone]

Many of those newbies visit for a little while and then disappear. I bet this accounts for many of your no responses.

I too see many reasons. Many my age and younger (I'm 31) just plain don't know how to be courteous, especially when turning something down. Sadly, entitlement seems to be the trend and taking time to say, "No thank you, sir." Isn't something many understand. Not all, but many.

Second, our culture has become far more disconnected. Many here say something like, "B&B is very different than most places. People are friendly, helpful, generous. What gives?" Offers from strangers, especially with sharp objects and things that touch our bodies seems a bit amiss to many. "Don't talk to strangers." Right? Somewhat related, now many of us would prefer to sit next to someone on a public bus when we could stay anonymous and separated in the empty seat instead?

Is it more rude to say, "Uh, this seems really weird. I think I'll pass." "No thank you, sir." (when the person really wants to say yes, but is afraid of the stranger) Or not reply at all?

Plus, a lot of newbies show up, find us kind of weird. If we're honest, we are underdogs who often get pushy, especially with opinions. Not all, but too many and they stand out. Some of them find us weird enough to be scared off for good.

Oh, and if you're ever looking for a relative-newbie to take under your wing, let me know. There's a lot I haven't tried and a few things I'm itching to. Blades (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/272386-1-2-of-some-sharp-blades) and an open comb razor in another month, for instance.

Don't give up. I know some of us would appreciate such offers.

EDIT: I still sometimes feel more comfortable giving out my work address than my home address, especially for people more local to me.

[Tiki_Shaver]

Face&Head, I'm pretty new and saw your thread. I'm not looking for a loan of any equipment, I want to work on my technique for a while. However, would you mind sending me a PM so that I see how it shows up when I sign in? Thanks.

Jim

[dpmtherrien]

I always reply to a PM, I just think its the right thing to do. I've also encountered members who don't even bother with such a simple thing.

Perhaps I'm way off base, but when someone chooses to be so "I could care less", about this matter, I think it shows a lot about what type of person that person is.

Without pointing any fingers, and this is totally IMHO.

[noahpictures]

So this is a fairly simple question but one that has visited me twice in the last month or so. We've all read noob posts where they are trying to decide on the right brush, razor or blade to use. Sometimes after reading these I'll PM the OP to offer an extended loan of a brush or razor to help inform their decision. With blades I just PIF 6 or so. Shipping all at my expense. When I've made these kinds of offers to more experienced B&Bers I always get a response. Absolutely 100% of the time. They may take me up on it or not, but never ignore the offer. With the noobs who prompted this post they simply didn't respond at all. Am I being old-fashioned & persnickety to think that's not the proper way to decline an offer?

It bugs me too. I don't think it has to do with being a noob, or being young. I've had long standing B&B members who are middle aged or older and very conservative (their own admission on political threads) not reply to a PM. Funny thing is they were the ones that PM'd me first asking for something!

[oc_in_fw]

I'm a relative noobie here, have no idea how to stay on top of the forums I posted in and didn't even know I had a mailbox here... unfortunately it wasn't filled with offers of riches, but now I know it exists and thanks!
If you have responded to a post, you will see a little green arrow over the block with the envelope icon. If there are new posts since you last posted, next to that block is a round button with two chevrons pointing downward. Clicking on that will take you to the first new post. Hope that helps.

[oc_in_fw]

Face&Head, I'm pretty new and saw your thread. I'm not looking for a loan of any equipment, I want to work on my technique for a while. However, would you mind sending me a PM so that I see how it shows up when I sign in? Thanks.

Jim

Tiki, I just sent you a PM. When you got to a new page, a pop up should, well, pop up and tell you that you have a new message and a button to click on. Also, if you hover over the "Notifications" at the top right of the page, a link to your inbox will appear, and will also say whether you have new messages.

[Tiki_Shaver]

oc_in_fw,
Thanks your two replies above are pretty helpful.
Tiki

[vitaman]

Face and Head,

That's happened to me a few times also. At first it bugged me a little. The second, I just figured that's just the way some people are. I wouldn't sweat it.

[OkieStubble]

While it may be a good-hearted reach to those noobs, they may view you as a stranger with candy.

But we are strangers with candy... Shaving candy! :001_tt1:

Noob want some candy? Come closer.

[fine wine]

But we are strangers with candy... Shaving candy! :001_tt1:

Noob want some candy? Come closer.
:lol:........................you are one sick puppy...........JR

[Rustonrazor]

I sent 2 emails to a guy and didn't get a reply for over a week. I finally let him know I needed to speak with him after I got his number and sent a text. My own parents may not respond to a text, email, or phone call for a day or 2. It is what it is. FWIW, I am a noob and I would reply quickly and appreciatively for sure.

[Go West Young Man]

You should check how many of those newbies have even signed in again since posting their initial thread.
Drive-by postings are pretty common, I'd bet most of them just plain haven't been back here since getting the one specific piece of info they were looking for.

[OkieStubble]

:lol:........................you are one sick puppy...........JR

Yes, Yes I am. :001_rolle

[texaninkc]

If you have responded to a post, you will see a little green arrow over the block with the envelope icon. If there are new posts since you last posted, next to that block is a round button with two chevrons pointing downward. Clicking on that will take you to the first new post. Hope that helps.

been here year and a half and I didn't know this. even on the old site. man, this helps.

[~daniel]

I'm a relative noobie here, have no idea how to stay on top of the forums I posted in and didn't even know I had a mailbox here... unfortunately it wasn't filled with offers of riches, but now I know it exists and thanks!

Because of this exact reason, I certainly wouldn't take it to heart OP.

[Matt555]

Do not take it personally....but no, you are not being old fashioned....it is kinda' rude. I respond to everyone. I look at it this way, would you ignore someone if they were speaking to you in person? Probably not. I have also been in negotiations of trades and sales and instead of the other member simply telling me he has found another buyer, decided to keep the item, etc....they just decide to cease communication with me and leave me hangin'! RUDE! For the most part however, the vast majority of people I communicate with on here are quite pleasant.

[Alphonse]

PM sent

[Earcutter]

Some people may be wary of a seemingly "to good to be true" offer, especially when giving out your name and address to a complete stranger over the internet. While I agree at least a "no thank you" would be nice, I dont let such things bother me too much :).

+1

[ThePatrician]

Many of those newbies visit for a little while and then disappear. I bet this accounts for many of your no responses.

I too see many reasons. Many my age and younger (I'm 31) just plain don't know how to be courteous, especially when turning something down. Sadly, entitlement seems to be the trend and taking time to say, "No thank you, sir." Isn't something many understand. Not all, but many.

Second, our culture has become far more disconnected. Many here say something like, "B&B is very different than most places. People are friendly, helpful, generous. What gives?" Offers from strangers, especially with sharp objects and things that touch our bodies seems a bit amiss to many. "Don't talk to strangers." Right? Somewhat related, now many of us would prefer to sit next to someone on a public bus when we could stay anonymous and separated in the empty seat instead?

Is it more rude to say, "Uh, this seems really weird. I think I'll pass." "No thank you, sir." (when the person really wants to say yes, but is afraid of the stranger) Or not reply at all?

It is a general rule of the Internet to not give out personal information. I recently talked to a Nigerian prince who needed my banking information to send me some money, and he said that a lot of people were nervous about giving out personal information. I think the whole "too good to be true" thing is at play both with the Prince and with your PIFing.

Newbies here don't really seem to be on board with the whole "generosity" thing, and to take a look around at our society, neither are most youngsters. Given time and regular B&Bing, they should come around. Being a gentleman is a lost art that I feel this forum is striving to resurrect, and will eventually succeed at. Part of that lost art that we are trying to save is communication: grammar, punctuation, courtesy, and responding to correspondence. This forum/community is rather unique on the Internet, which as I mentioned on my newbie post is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, in that we are all here to help and support each other in our passions and pursuits, rather than tear each other down and criticize each other.

I wouldn't let it get to you. If you want a slightly bastard way to look at it, which is the way I look at almost everything, look at what they are missing out on. While not getting a response may rankle, think of the fact that they missed out on something, and someone who knows how to respond got something awesome. For what it's worth, I always try to respond to correspondences until it has reached a natural stopping point. Not bothering with the common courtesies seems to be systemic of our times and manners are being thrown to the wayside instead of taught and handed down like a fine pipe or family heirloom.

Good gravy, I could rant and rave all day and night about this. I am truly a curmudgeon at the young age of thirty.

~Matt

[OkieStubble]

Excellent post Matt.

[BBrad]

It is a general rule of the Internet to not give out personal information. I recently talked to a Nigerian prince who needed my banking information to send me some money, and he said that a lot of people were nervous about giving out personal information. I think the whole "too good to be true" thing is at play both with the Prince and with your PIFing.

Newbies here don't really seem to be on board with the whole "generosity" thing, and to take a look around at our society, neither are most youngsters. Given time and regular B&Bing, they should come around. Being a gentleman is a lost art that I feel this forum is striving to resurrect, and will eventually succeed at. Part of that lost art that we are trying to save is communication: grammar, punctuation, courtesy, and responding to correspondence. This forum/community is rather unique on the Internet, which as I mentioned on my newbie post is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, in that we are all here to help and support each other in our passions and pursuits, rather than tear each other down and criticize each other.

I wouldn't let it get to you. If you want a slightly bastard way to look at it, which is the way I look at almost everything, look at what they are missing out on. While not getting a response may rankle, think of the fact that they missed out on something, and someone who knows how to respond got something awesome. For what it's worth, I always try to respond to correspondences until it has reached a natural stopping point. Not bothering with the common courtesies seems to be systemic of our times and manners are being thrown to the wayside instead of taught and handed down like a fine pipe or family heirloom.

Good gravy, I could rant and rave all day and night about this. I am truly a curmudgeon at the young age of thirty.

~Matt

As I was reading this thread I was developing the same thoughts that Matt posted . . . and frankly, I couldn't have said it better.

Classic shaving is not the only lost art we practice around here!

As for being a curmudgeon at 30, sir . . . just wait 25 years and you can be as miserable as me and get away with it!!! :lol:

[Sully2]

I wonder if it has to do with age. I think you should respond but I'm amost 50 :001_tt2:

Here's an example of an incident I had (non-b&b related). I lined up a baby sitter last week, a simple text to set everything up (she's a regular). I had to cancel with her so I texted her that we need to cancel. I did this over 24 hrs before she was supposed to start, I waited overnight for a reply then finally texted her asking if she recieved the previous text. She said she did, so why didn't she just text back a simple ok? or contact me next time. I think it has to do with age and this new fangled way we communicate.

I NEVER HAVE and NEVER WILL...send either a text message or a FAX to someone about anything important ( to at least me). Thats why I have TELEPHONES! If I had $100 for every FAX I ever sent ( when I worked full time) that never even got there...Id have my own bulletin board. I always followed up any FAX with a phone call to make sure they had recieved the FAX.

[Rustonrazor]

so, here is a question.

After making a comment to another member that I might seek his advice on purchases from time to time, he PM'd me and told me to PM him any time I had a question. I didn't respond because I took that as his response to my comment within a thread. Is that improper, because that was not my intention. As I said earlier, I respond to everything that warrants a response.

I think, sometimes, we lose the art of communication due to the fact that we aren't speaking or face to face. Depending on the tone of the post or PM, it may not appear that a response is always needed. This may be an excuse for some who aren't familiar with etiquette. I do think, in the specific area of PIF requests or responses, it should be on the receiver of the offer to return any correspondence. So to the OP, I agree.

[Rustonrazor]

I NEVER HAVE and NEVER WILL...send either a text message or a FAX to someone about anything important ( to at least me). Thats why I have TELEPHONES! If I had $100 for every FAX I ever sent ( when I worked full time) that never even got there...Id have my own bulletin board. I always followed up any FAX with a phone call to make sure they had recieved the FAX.

+1

[J.K.T.]

PM and email etiquette is always questionable. Some might be apprehensive and some might not check back. What gets me is when a member will ask a question and never respond back later one. They ask a question and never follow up with anything. That is probably why I wont respond to threads that often. Who knows, maybe I am being weird.

[SuperChris]

I don't see it as any kind of insult or lack of courtesy. A few weeks ago, I pm'ed a member in response to a post on the BST. This member has been a member for longer than me and has way more posts. I never recieved a response. I just chalked it up to him being uninterested in my offer.

[Viseguy]

I thought we had a sticky somewhere with guidelines for new members, posting dos and dont's, etc., but I can't find it now. If we don't, we should. Perhaps a sentence or two could be added, along these lines:


The B&B community is a generous group. If you post a question or express an interest in a product, one or more members may send you private messages (PMs) offering to send you a free sample or other helpful information. How you reply is up to you, but please do reply. A brief "No, thanks" or "Yes, please! Here's my address..." will do. In a word, be courteous. If you want to avoid making friends on B&B, ignoring PMs is an excellent way to do it.

[fine wine]

As I was reading this thread I was developing the same thoughts that Matt posted . . . and frankly, I couldn't have said it better.

Classic shaving is not the only lost art we practice around here!

As for being a curmudgeon at 30, sir . . . just wait 25 years and you can be as miserable as me and get away with it!!! :lol:
Well said sir, well said.........JR

[Dooliano1969]

I 100% agree with some people on here.
Someone on here saw my scuttle pictures in a thread and sent me a P.M asking how it works and he is deciding to get a scuttle
So i wrote him back explaining in details about my scuttle, and I informed him about all the pros and cons in two paragraphs. I did not even get a Thank you response back or anything. Plenty of rude people.

[fine wine]

There is one thing I would like to point out, I travel a lot. I'm retired now, So there will and has been times that I'm not near a computer or internet service. So I have gone a few weeks without coming to B&B. So if I don't respond to someones PM. It is mainly due to logistics, and not me being rude to anyone. But as soon as I do log on that is the first thing I do is answer PM's and explain.But hopfully that is behind me because I now have a laptop, AND a thing called a hotspot from T-Mobile that makes me a WIFI. And it works!!!.............JR
Life is good when the kids leave........................

[Mendel]

When I was a kid growing up in Michigan, my parents always had me write thank you letters for gifts received, etc. That behavior has carried on throughout my adult life. I am now 53. I believe some people simply don't have manners. Responding here on B & B is a microcosm of the business world as well. Yes, people should show courtesy and respond in a timely manner. . IMHO, I dont want to make a sweeping generalization, but I believe the younger generation doesn't necessarily feel inclined to respond or send a thank you for a PIF received, etc.

[MarkBenecewicz]

I'd tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, IE they didn't realize they had a PM. Although I won a PIF in my first few posts on this site and couldn't help but notice the big number 1 next to the notifications. On a manners note, it seems no one responds to RSVPs any more either....

[ThePatrician]

As I was reading this thread I was developing the same thoughts that Matt posted . . . and frankly, I couldn't have said it better.

Classic shaving is not the only lost art we practice around here!

As for being a curmudgeon at 30, sir . . . just wait 25 years and you can be as miserable as me and get away with it!!! :lol:

I am trying to live my life following the Golden Rule: treat others the way you would like to be treated. It is the one rule I hope to instill in my son, if nothing else hits home in his head. (Alliteration is fun!) It is a rule that is forgotten all too often, if the depressing news is anything to go by.

I have a sneaking suspicion I will be Clint Eastwood's character from Gran Torino.

~Matt

[BBrad]

I am trying to live my life following the Golden Rule: treat others the way you would like to be treated. It is the one rule I hope to instill in my son, if nothing else hits home in his head. (Alliteration is fun!) It is a rule that is forgotten all too often, if the depressing news is anything to go by.

I have a sneaking suspicion I will be Clint Eastwood's character from Gran Torino.

~Matt

That's a good way to live, sir!

Walt is a whole 'nother story all together!

[BZiel]

Some guy named zeeco keeps PM'ing me and offering to PIF a dead badger.