SE or DE? Which is best? The great 2012 shave-off

[Mark1966]

I've recently had my first experience with an SE, a GEM 1912 that was very easy to use and produced a great shave with a single blade for almost a whole week. I started to wonder why SE died out and DE flourished. Was it just the impact of marketing that as DE shavers we put the success of carts down to? I thought it was time to sort this out once and for all.

Thanks to Pete over at Paste & Cut (http://www.paste-and-cut.com.au/content/) I have an OCMM (see how I slipped that it so casual, like an old SE pro!) so the time has come to compare how it shaves with my current DE of choice - an Eclipse Red Ring.

I loaded the RR with a new Feather and threw the GEM blade into the OCMM - very cool TTO just so you know. So we were ready, the combatants faced off on the vanity, neither willing to take a backward step:

http://media.use.com/images/s_2/fec23b7e0fbf13565a09.jpg (http://www.use.com/fec23b7e0fbf13565a09)


ROUND ONE

I prepared as usual, shower then soak brush (my new MC2) and lathered up. I actually used P.160 Tipo Morbido - a fantastic soap - rather then the C&E Nomad in the pic. The Nomad just looked better

So we were ready to go. This was the first time with the OCMM so I gave it the advantage - the left side of my face. To confess it was a little brutal. Certainly strong aural feedback but I got some nicks, weepers and burn. This shaves close and in hindsight I remembered hearing that these were quite aggressive.

By contrast the RR was s-m-o-o-t-h. Very nice glide and no nicks, cuts, or burn. The second pass on the OCMM was better but still not as good as the RR.

The first pass was north to south, the second south to north. Trying to only shave half your face then changing razors makes for some tricky angles around the chin and moustache area. I didn't go truly south to north on the cheeks with the OCMM, more XTG than ATG.

Finished off with the Lucky Tiger (http://www.mensbiz.com.au/lucky-tiger-after-shave-face-tonic.html) I got this week. The scent reminds me of orange hand-cleanser. A strong orange-citrus smell, which quickly fades away. On the face it is certainly more a balm (slightly oily) than splash with aloe vera in the ingredients this is evident in the strong soothing impact - very useful after the slash and burn approach of the OCMM.


The result for round one: This was a clear victory for the DE. It had the advantage of familiarity but was certainly a much smoother and more pleasant shave with less burn and nicks. Both were certainly very smooth, close shaves. We will come back tomorrow and try again to see if with a little more practice the OCMM can strike a blow for SE razors.


Stay tuned for more...

[ShavinBacon]

This should be interesting. I have been an SE user for a long time keeping DE around for a change of pace. I still use SE 70% of the time but I got a Darwin Deluxe and I have trying to figure out who wins that battle for a while now. That Darwin is a completely different shave for me than any other DE and it's as aggressive/efficient as anything I have ever tried. As a matter of fact, it wins in a single pass shave versus anything I have ever tried. Should be interesting to see if your RR wins or the OCMM (although not a very fair comparison since this was the first use of your OCMM...I like the OCMM but my favorite SE is the ER Streamline). I will be watching this thread.

[showard]

The OCMM has a reputation of being the chainsaw of the SE world. If it's possible to actually apply no pressure shaving, this is the razor to do it with.

[HoosierTrooper]

As a harcore SE fan I'll be pulling for the OCMM.

[itsmedave]

I like Double Edges more the Single Edges, but I'll be pulling for the OC MM as well. One of my favorite razor and one that will never leave my den.

[SAPed]

I just finished my first week with an SE - a GEM push button and I've been very impressed. I also bought the GEM OCMM, but saving that until I get a little more experience with the SE based on the comments regarding aggressiveness. It will be interesting to see how this goes. But to anyone who's been thinking of an SE, definitely give it a try.

[plpenn]

I have only used a few SE's but my old Gem Jr. has been an almost daily shaver for me since I sent the Sextoblade out on it's trip. I even got rid of all of my DE's but the ones my grandpa gave me. I would love to get my hands on an old lather catcher but the wife put her foot down :(

[Sledgehammer39]

I am hoping the underdog wins. However, the DE may have the advantage due to the large variety and grades of DE blades. The Gem really only has two types of blades Carbon and Stainless Steel.

[oc_in_fw]

I predict that once you get the swing of it, the SE will be victorious.

[craig87c]

I predict that once you get the swing of it, the SE will be victorious.

Only because it's better! Though I will admit to wanting to try a few more DEs...the Red Ring being one of them.

[alex2363]

Mark, Im loving that Red ring......I am still looking for one, but I do love my SE 1912 Gemy. I have to wait to compare.

[Mark1966]

Yes Alex the Red Ring is nice, but I wish I had one in slightly better condition!

But for now, time to move on....


ROUND TWO

It was the Cella today, using my little red tub recently refilled from a kilo brick I brought and shared with another P&C (http://www.paste-and-cut.com.au/content/) member. I swapped the MC for my Chubby 1 too.

I swapped sides, the Red Ring with Feather starting on the left side of my face. What can I say, it was smooth and simple, but wait, what is that - a little bleeding going on! The RR claimed that this was merely the result of irritating a cut made yesterday by the OCMM. This could be true, but the judges decided that they still have to score it as a cut.

Now to the OCMM. No pressure, no pressure, no pressure was looping around in my head. I've said this on many occasions to those starting with DE but what does it mean? The first pass, north to south, was easy, basically a very light tough to 'steer' while gravity and the weight of the OCMM did its work. But how do you have 'no pressure' going ATG south to north? Once again I tried the lightest of touches with the head of the razor merely grazing my face.

I thought that the touch of the OCMM was so light that it would not be working. But after two passes, WTG and genuinely ATG my cheeks feel unbelievably smooth! There was a nick on the chin, but this was the only one.

The result for round two: I calling it for the OCMM.

This resulted in some protest from the RR claiming that it was working under more difficult conditions, pointing out that the OCMM nick was fresh. I had to point out that maybe a certain laziness had crept in as the OCMM produced the finer shave, there were patches rubbing against the grain of the RR side where I could feel some stubble, whereas the OCMM side was all smooth, with and against the grain.

After this shock result so early in the match I'm sure that the RR will come back with more care next round. So stay tuned to see how this battle unfolds!


http://media.use.com/images/s_4/b6c177e45a98dd3d110d.jpg (http://www.use.com/b6c177e45a98dd3d110d)


Is the OCMM smoking a cigarette?

[TankCommander1554]

This is certainly an interesting match-up. I recently shaved with a Gem 1912 for the first time and I agree it was awesome! The OCMM is an aggressive razor - works better in my opinion with more hair. I'll continue to follow this :)

[oc_in_fw]

Only because it's better! Though I will admit to wanting to try a few more DEs...the Red Ring being one of them.

I may be biased, but I have to agree. I have an EverReady 1912 (same thing as the Gem 1912). IMO, it was the pinnacle of safety razor shaving. The only thing left is straight razors, which I hope to make the move to soon.

[Badger & Bengall]

Mark, thanks for the good read. I'm a huge fan of the SEs you sold me, particularly the 1912. The OCMM is great, but a lot more bitey than the 1912, so I try to be wide awake when I use it.

If you start collecting SEs, I call first dibs on your superseded stock!

[bjh618]

Great thread mark and very well written!

I tried and discarded the MM - it was far too brutal for my face. Dare I say that the next step for you is to pick up a straight?...

[Mark1966]

Great thread mark and very well written!

I tried and discarded the MM - it was far too brutal for my face. Dare I say that the next step for you is to pick up a straight?...

Thanks mate. The difference with straights though is that they need stropping and honing = skill. I prefer the alternative approach, you change blades = no skill necessary!

[mftoms59]

Thanks mate. The difference with straights though is that they need stropping and honing = skill. I prefer the alternative approach, you change blades = no skill necessary!

Exactly, when I want a Close Shave it's an SE or Injector without all that prep work, I'm unskilled & lazy. Nice read, looking forward to your conclusion.

[Mark1966]

ROUND THREE


Being summer you can't go for too long without breaking out the Proraso - a great summer soap and a/s. I got the balm out just in case it got dirty today, but ended up using the splash, my normal summer combination - but more about that later.

The Proraso is teamed with my Semogue 1305 - another great combination. A great boar with loads of backbone.

http://media.use.com/images/s_4/7f1e5595135a682e6142.jpg (http://www.use.com/7f1e5595135a682e6142)

The Red Ring was smarting after being beaten the previous day. It was Day Three with the Feather - this is the end point for many people with these blades so I was cautious, the RR shouting at me to use 'no pressure' just as I had done so successfully the previous day with the OCMM.

The OCMM meanwhile looked confident, almost cocky. It had the preferred left hand side and started the action. Once again, no pressure and a light touch.

The noise of the OCMM mowing down the stubble was again phenomenal. I have fairly thick coarse hair and it is like a chainsaw blasting through this stuff. The result though - nice, BBS and no cuts. Once again the OCMM had set the bar high.

Not to be outdone the Red Ring moved in, gliding effortlessly across my face. Smooth as silk and another BBS result after 2 1/2 passes, one WTG, one ATG and touch ups.

As I did the second pass with the Red Ring I was asking myself how am I going to judge this. They both produced such a smooth result and there were no nicks at all today. The RR was certainly more comfortable and easy to use, but that may merely be familiarity. I decided to use the Proraso splash to see if that highlighted any differences. Certainly there was a little burn but nothing major and evenly spread.

The result for round three: I'm calling this a draw.

So after three rounds the result is a tie.


I know that the fanbois on both side will not be satisfied with this result. Certainly the RR was easier for me - but I've used one more regularly. The OCMM was no more of a challenge than an aggressive DE, such as the 2011 R41, it took a little more concentration but the results speak for themselves.

What I've learnt from my brief experiences with SEs though is that everybody should give them a go - they are not that hard to use and you need not be afraid, like I was before I used one. All that I'm saying, it give SE a chance - you might be surprised like I was.

Tomorrow we will be having the last shave of this contest - and I've got something special in mind. Make sure you check back to see what weird, wacky and possible heretical approach I'm taking!

[bjh618]

Thanks mate. The difference with straights though is that they need stropping and honing = skill. I prefer the alternative approach, you change blades = no skill necessary!


Yeah that a fair point! I'm still not up to speed on honing but I found the learning curve for stropping and using a straight was exaggerated (for me at least), and I was getting good shaves within a handful of attempts. Nowadays I use DE when I'm working and a straight to relax.

Contrary to your experience, I actually found it too much effort to learn SE, though I admit I had less of an interest and may have used a dodgy blade...

[ackvil]

I like them both. I shave one day with a DE and the next with a SE. I like the audible feedback from the SE but find most of the DEs a tad smoother.

[jsj_297]

As a harcore SE fan I'll be pulling for the OCMM.
I miss my OCMM, why did I ever sell it!!??!!?? :cursing:

[Mark1966]

ROUND FOUR

Here we are folks, the final round, at least for now.

It is another work day, so no time for mucking around. Shower, shave then out the door. This is also day four for the Feather in the Red Ring - potentially hazardous at the best of time. So you can see that I'm a thrill seeker at heart, in a rush and throwing a four day old Feather around my face :omg:

So let's get into it. I'm going to start controversially:


http://media.use.com/images/s_2/fec23b7e0fbf13565a09.jpg (http://www.use.com/Round_One_fec23b7e0fbf13565a09)


Yes, for those that have been following closely that is the pic from the first day recycled, like I said I'm in a rush. I was also thinking about which soap to use and remembered that I'd taken a pic of the C&E Nomad but had not used it. I figured it was only fair to give it a run.

I can hear the gasps from some of you already. C&E soaps polarize people, you either love them or hate them. My wife is a big C&E fan so I tend to have received a few of their products as gifts over the years (not sure why I need some of them to be honest) so when I started DE shaving I knew it was just a matter of time. I'm just thankful that I haven't received one of their brushes, nice looking but $$$$$$!

So there we go, a controversial choice of soap. How will the OCMM stand up under this sort of pressure? Only one way to find out, I whip it out and off we go, doing my whole face, first pass, north to south with the OCMM. This did take some getting used to, doing my whole face but it did a mighty fine job.

Then it was time for the Red Ring for the second pass and touch ups. Yes, for those of you who haven't guessed I'm using the (in)famous 'Thomas Method' so dubbed by me after its most vocal proponent in one of the Aussie shaving forums. In the controversial Thomas Method you do the first pass with a SE then the second past and touch ups with a DE. Claimed by supporters to be the best of both worlds and derided by critics as being so sitting on the fence that you get splinters you know where I know that it was a controversial way to finish this challenge.


The result for round four: S-M-O-O-T-H, in fact BBS.


I realise that I could get banned from shaving forums around the globe but maybe that old Aussie bugger was on to something.

Do we know which is best? Of course YMMV means that we never will. I am convinced though that part of the enjoyment of shaving nowadays is trying alternatives and savouring the moment. This daily ritual can be a enjoyable.

I'm also convinced that SEs are worth a run. One day I may even try a straight if I can learn how. Don't be afraid once you have a few shaves under your belt to be a little adventurous.

So that is it from me. I've enjoyed the ride and hope you have too.

May all your shaves be smooth, happy shaving!

[ShavinBacon]

OK, this didn't help my decision with my Darwin versus my SE's!!! In all seriousness, thanks. I believe there is room at the table for both SE's and DE's. It truly is YMMV when it comes to razors. Thanks for the comparison.

[mftoms59]

An enjoyable thread, thanks for sharing your journey with us.

[Mark1966]

OK, this didn't help my decision with my Darwin versus my SE's!!! In all seriousness, thanks. I believe there is room at the table for both SE's and DE's. It truly is YMMV when it comes to razors. Thanks for the comparison.

LOL! Sorry mate. The playing with the OCMM has certainly convinced me to be more willing to try a wider variety of razors.


An enjoyable thread, thanks for sharing your journey with us.

Thanks mate - happy shaving!

[Legion]

I don't have an OCMM but my 1912 is probably my most used safety razor when I do use one. The shave is fantastic, the grip is good, it's easy to use...

Personally I think the DE won out because they were issued to the troops in two world wars. And they probably got the contract because someone who makes these decicions was sold on the idea that the blades would last longer because of two edges. When all those guys came home they just stuck with the type of razor they had been use to, and the SE slowly lost traction on the market.

[HoosierTrooper]

I'm not surprised that you enjoyed the SE experience, thanks for doing this.

[Mark1966]

I don't have an OCMM but my 1912 is probably my most used safety razor when I do use one. The shave is fantastic, the grip is good, it's easy to use...

Personally I think the DE won out because they were issued to the troops in two world wars. And they probably got the contract because someone who makes these decicions was sold on the idea that the blades would last longer because of two edges. When all those guys came home they just stuck with the type of razor they had been use to, and the SE slowly lost traction on the market.

A certain irony I feeling that we bag out carts as an inferior method sustained by marketing along yet comparing DE to SE you could conclude that it was the Gillette marketing that led to the DE takeover. Controversial I know but hey....

[Mark1966]

I'm not surprised that you enjoyed the SE experience, thanks for doing this.

Thanks for coming along on the ride Tom!