*(Not)Counterfeit T&H shaving cream from Amazon.com

[JeffE]

I just wanted to post this warning to the members about a really bad experience I had purchasing shaving cream at Amazon.com.

I'm a big fan of Truefitt & Hill, as I know many of you are, and so when I saw it being sold on Amazon.com for $28 per tub, I ordered two.

Well, nothing could have prepared me for the surprise I got when I received the shipment. The shaving cream arrived in a generic, white plastic tub (not the usual T&H tub) with an adhesive label stuck on the top saying "Truefitt & Hill." The label on the bottom of the container said "Made in the USA for Truefitt & Hill."

Well, I immediately wrote to T&H about this -- I didn't want some second-rate version of the shaving cream; I wanted the real thing, and it bothered me that T&H would think that customers would be satisfied with this kind of bait-and-switch.

Anyway, to my relief, I learned this morning that what I purchased from Amazon was indeed a counterfeit product. I've sent back the counterfeits for a refund, but I wanted everyone here to know about the experience so that you don't get fooled the same way that I was.

If you're interested, here's the email from T&H (excellent customer service, by the way!!) and a photo of the counterfeit product (on the left) and the real thing (on the right):


Dear Mr ________,



Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to write to us and for supplying the photo.



We can assure you that the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product and that all genuine T&H Shaving Cream Bowls are manufactured in the UK.



Please contact Amazon to apprise them of this. We would be very grateful if you would reply to us with any further information you gather.



Thanks and Kind Regards,



Adrian Williams

TRUEFITT & HILL (Gentlemen's Grooming) Ltd

71 St James's Street

London SW1A 1PH

tel. 020 7493 8496 | fax. 020 7499 5325



www.truefittandhill.co.uk (UK & International)

[plpenn]

Thats crazy! Good looking out!

[Prince]

That's not good - I have quite a lot of faith in Amazon. Hope they give you a refund without any questions.

[heybatter]

Was this the item you purchased on Amazon?

http://www.amazon.com/Truefitt-Hill-Ultimate-Comfort-6-Ounces/dp/B000F5KFZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314977539&sr=8-1

[JeffE]

Was this the item you purchase on Amazon?

http://www.amazon.com/Truefitt-Hill-Ultimate-Comfort-6-Ounces/dp/B000F5KFZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314977539&sr=8-1

That's the one. I have asked for a refund and I'm sure it will be forthcoming. I'm still disappointed though -- I'd expect to get counterfeit stuff from a fly-by-night seller on ebay, but not from Amazon.com itself. I just hope T&H goes after them for this.

[maxman]

Good to know. Interesting how even shaving cream is counterfeit these days.

[The Nid Hog]

What was in the tub?

[DamnFineBob]

What was in the tub?

That was my first thought, too. I see that another reviewer on Amazon gave it the lowest rating he could and said it gave him a rash. I wonder if that was the counterfeit stuff.

I also wonder what Amazon's response will be. I might have to limit my purchases from them strictly to books, if this is how they watch out for their customers lately.

[JeffE]

What was in the tub?

It's just fortunate that I happened to have a tub of the genuine stuff in reserve, because if I was out of the original, I might have been fooled by the appearance of the counterfeit. The counterfeit looks like your basic, white, goopy, glycerin-based shaving cream. The smell is neutral and nothing about it (other than the packaging) looked suspicious. Now that I know it's counterfeit, I opened the genuine tub and could see immediately that the counterfeit stuff is much more oily and runny in consistency. The counterfeit is also smeared all over the sides and top of the inside of the container, whereas the genuine T&H shave cream tends to stay in just one place, no matter how hard you shake the tub around.

I'm going to return the counterfeits for a full refund, so I didn't take any out to shave with, and frankly I'd be a little scared to use it for shaving. Now that I know it's a fake, who knows what sort of crud they scraped together to make it.

[ras120]

I'd expect to get counterfeit stuff from a fly-by-night seller on ebay, but not from Amazon.com itself.

Wow, I know Amazon will give you a full refund, but that really shakes my confidence in my favorite online retailer.

I sincerely hope that Amazon was somehow duped by an unscrupulous supplier and did not knowingly sell a counterfeit product. What did they say about it?

[ruebis]

Jeff! Thanks my man. I got one of these tubs as well. When it arrived a few months ago I thought, hmm. That's odd. It doesn't match any of the other T&H packaging. But I never followed up because honestly, I am not a T&H connoisseur and didn't think I'd get counterfeit soap from amazon. So thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'm currently in talks with Amazon about a proper replacement/refund.

Really appreciate your post.

[JeffE]

Wow, I know Amazon will give you a full refund, but that really shakes my confidence in my favorite online retailer.

I sincerely hope that Amazon was somehow duped by an unscrupulous supplier and did not knowingly sell a counterfeit product. What did they say about it?

I wish that was the case, but look at the linked web page - the photo on the web page is not the same as what was shipped. How does that not raise alarm bells at Amazon? Maybe Amazon didn't sell it "knowingly" but I have to say that it's at least shockingly careless of them. Just to be clear, this item does NOT come from an Amazon "partner" or whatever they call their third-party sellers. This is right from Amazon.com itself. And to answer your question, I've not heard anything in response to my email to Amazon customer service. The return process, as you know, is automated, and I am simply returning the items with the Amazon-provided label.

Also, since it was asked above, here's a photo of the inside of the counterfeit jar (on the left again) and the genuine jar (on the right).

[xillion]

Is the tub shown at US Truefitt site (http://www.truefittandhill.com/detail_10003__4.html) similar to the one Amazon sent you?

Is the current tub all gray with a screen printed top? Thanks for the heads up.

[noahpictures]

I can't believe this! :mad1:

Another reason to shop with B&B vendors. Thanks for sharing.

[Captain Coconut]

The return process, as you know, is automated, and I am simply returning the items with the Amazon-provided label.
When I've had an actual problem with an item and needed to return it (because it was the wrong item, for instance, not because it was damaged in shipping), I've always gotten a follow-up email from an actual representative. If you put in the comments that it was a counterfeit, I'd be shocked if someone didn't investigate it.

[jtb]

This is so sad... What really amazes me is that someone will go through this sort of effort... I mean really, whats the pay-off? Isn't this a rather limited market?

[JeffE]

Well, this just gets weirder and weirder. Yes, the tub that's shown on the "US" website (www.truefittandhill.com) is the one that I got from Amazon. What's inside the tub is definitely NOT what I've received in the past (see photo above). And when I checked with Truefitt & Hill in England (www.truefittandhill.co.uk), they said that it's definitely counterfeit (see message from Adrian Williams above).

But the website www.truefittandhill.com looks pretty darn professional for something that's being run by a counterfeiter! There's photos of just about every other genuine Truefitt & Hill product there. And you can even order direct from the website, which is a feature that I doubt any true counterfeiter would bother with.

Still, what's the story with the really shabby packaging?! I mean, what I got from Amazon had a plain adhesive label stuck on the top with very rough, uneven lettering in the logo -- like what you'd see on a prototype package, but not an actual production piece. And if the goods are genuine, how would you explain the fact that the consistency and formula of the two are so completely different.

Anyway, it should be interesting to see how this all plays out. As a T&H fan, I just hope that they stick with the UK "version" and aren't abandoning us to a runny, messy "Made in the USA for T&H" version!

[xillion]

The US Truefitt site even offers a B&B discount (http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Vendor_Discounts).

I ordered a sampler pack through the US site and all the products were genuine.

[heybatter]

Strange that it matches the photo on the U.S. site. Hopefully others that bought off the T&H US site can chime in about the quality of their product. It certainly looks much different in the photo posted.

[wbj509]

Well, this just gets weirder and weirder. Yes, the tub that's shown on the "US" website (www.truefittandhill.com) is the one that I got from Amazon. What's inside the tub is definitely NOT what I've received in the past (see photo above).

True but you can notice that the amount of how much is in the tub has been rounded up. The US T&H site has the proper measurements. I too am interested in how Amazon will handle this.

[dfigz]

Aside from the Truefitts...wonder what else could be counterfeit?

[ackvil]

Well, this just gets weirder and weirder. Yes, the tub that's shown on the "US" website (www.truefittandhill.com) is the one that I got from Amazon. What's inside the tub is definitely NOT what I've received in the past (see photo above). And when I checked with Truefitt & Hill in England (www.truefittandhill.co.uk), they said that it's definitely counterfeit (see message from Adrian Williams above).

But the website www.truefittandhill.com looks pretty darn professional for something that's being run by a counterfeiter! There's photos of just about every other genuine Truefitt & Hill product there. And you can even order direct from the website, which is a feature that I doubt any true counterfeiter would bother with.

Still, what's the story with the really shabby packaging?! I mean, what I got from Amazon had a plain adhesive label stuck on the top with very rough, uneven lettering in the logo -- like what you'd see on a prototype package, but not an actual production piece. And if the goods are genuine, how would you explain the fact that the consistency and formula of the two are so completely different.

Anyway, it should be interesting to see how this all plays out. As a T&H fan, I just hope that they stick with the UK "version" and aren't abandoning us to a runny, messy "Made in the USA for T&H" version!

This website appears to be legitimate. I have ordered from them in the past without problems. T&H has a US website based out of Chicago, as far as I recall.

[Malakas1981]

I actually think I have a counterfeit cream I purchased from barclay crocker. Says made in the USA. Damn !Does anyone have there contact info by chance

[Mysterio]

That was my first thought, too. I see that another reviewer on Amazon gave it the lowest rating he could and said it gave him a rash. I wonder if that was the counterfeit stuff.

I also wonder what Amazon's response will be. I might have to limit my purchases from them strictly to books, if this is how they watch out for their customers lately.

Amazon will do GREAT with the return, they always do. They probably just got screwed by a supplier. There are so many products listed on Amazon it's not surprising that things like this happen from time to time. Their customer support has always been fantastic for me, and I've had lots of returns for various reasons.

I always find it interesting when people "wonder what Amazon will do" in advance, as if they have a reputation for screwing their customers. In reality they've got some of the best customer service I've ever seen. I've even gotten price adjustments after the fact from them once or twice, which isn't part of their policy.

[TZee]

Hey, I had that tub on the left that I purchased locally from a respectable barber here in St. Paul. I've never seen the T&H Ultimate Comfort in a box, I thought it only came in that white tub.

Edit: Are the T&H reps in the UK 100% certain that it is counterfeit? I remember hearing something about the packaging being old, and T&H not wanting to correct the printing error (6oz instead of 5.8oz). Can we have a US T&H rep verify this?

[JeffE]

Hey, I had that tub on the left that I purchased locally from a respectable barber here in St. Paul. I've never seen the T&H Ultimate Comfort in a box, I thought it only came in that white tub.

Edit: Are the T&H reps in the UK 100% certain that it is counterfeit? I remember hearing something about the packaging being old, and T&H not wanting to correct the printing error (6oz instead of 5.8oz). Can we have a US T&H rep verify this?

I agree with all of the posts above -- the website at www.truefittandhill.com appears genuine. No doubt about it. And the "countefeit" product is being sold there.

But the UK company said, in absolute terms, that the product was definitely counterfeit. The entire email from the UK is printed above.

So what's going on?! There's one way that this could come about. A US company will sometimes enter into an agreement with a foreign manufacturer to be the "US office" for that manufacturer's products. The US company gets exclusive distribution or something like that and pays a royalty to the foreign company. The US company is supposed to clear everything that it does with the foreign manufacturer, but the US company might decide that it doesn't need approval or that the contract doesn't require it to ask for approval. Then you'd have the US company making or offering seemingly legitimate products using the brand name that are completely unknown to the foreign manufacturer. It looks more and more like this is the situation here.

Anyway, I hope that the UK company works this out quickly, because this kind of confusion is definitely NOT good for business. And just between us, if you have used and enjoy the "US" or "counterfeit" version of the product, then you really need to try the "UK" version -- it's light years better, practically perfection in a shave cream.

[JeffE]

Ooops, one other thing too:

The change from 5.8 ounces (old packaging) to 6.7 ounces (new packaging) happened when the company switched from the traditional bakelite tubs (which needed a liner) to the new plastic tubs (which do not). Once you take out the liner, you can cram 6.7 ounces of shaving cream in the same size package that used to hold 5.8 ounces with a little plastic liner.

For the record, I did complain to T&H about the switch from bakelite to plastic, but I heard from a wide range of sources there that there's just no way that the company could continue to afford to offer its product in bakelite. Ok, I suppose that's the way of things, although I'd certainly spend a few bucks more for the shaving cream in a really nice bakelite tub. Anyway, that's how the quantity got changed from 5.8 to 6.7. As for the 6.0 ounces, I've never seen this quantity before on any other T&H product except for this "counterfeit" or "US" product that I got from Amazon.

[TZee]

This is very interesting because I remember it burning my face. Now, I'm curious, and I wonder if the UK version wouldn't cause the same issues.

On another note, for a shaving company they surely provide not only an excellent product, but excellent customer service.

[DBlair]

As I noticed Amazon has TOBS Sandalwood for $11/tub, I've been thinking about ordering some, but now am a bit curious as to the authenticity.

Does anyone know if the TOBS they sell is actually real?

[Malakas1981]

I contacted barclay crocker and they assure me it's authentic. They Stated they purchase there t&h products from T&H Chicago. Should hear back from someone else soon

[ikeyballz]

The counterfeit soap appears very similar in consistency to my TOBS cream. Is it possible that since the TOBS is $14 per tub, they take the tobs and cram it into a different container and "upsell" it as the T&H?

[Derek1984]

I wish that was the case, but look at the linked web page - the photo on the web page is not the same as what was shipped. How does that not raise alarm bells at Amazon? Maybe Amazon didn't sell it "knowingly" but I have to say that it's at least shockingly careless of them. Just to be clear, this item does NOT come from an Amazon "partner" or whatever they call their third-party sellers. This is right from Amazon.com itself. And to answer your question, I've not heard anything in response to my email to Amazon customer service. The return process, as you know, is automated, and I am simply returning the items with the Amazon-provided label.

Also, since it was asked above, here's a photo of the inside of the counterfeit jar (on the left again) and the genuine jar (on the right).




I've ordered from the US Truefitt and Hill site and Amazon as recently as last week for the Ultimate Comfort Cream. Both times, they looked just like the one on the left of the picture that you claim is counterfeit. The packaging and the cream looked exactly the same from both sites. Something isn't right here... Perhaps there is a US formula and a UK formula?

[Go West Young Man]

As I read it, they didn't say it was a counterfeit product, just that the packaging was not official T+H bowl.
Maybe someone got some bulk product through the secondary market and is trying to sell it off quietly?

[CyberJCM]

As I noticed Amazon has TOBS Sandalwood for $11/tub, I've been thinking about ordering some, but now am a bit curious as to the authenticity.

Does anyone know if the TOBS they sell is actually real?

I ordered the $11 TOBS Sandlewood, as well as Eton at $10.75 a couple weeks back, and an Avocado for Fathers Day. I forget the price.
Both totally legit, and totally awesome! I wouldn't worry about it.

[Captain Coconut]

I know I wouldn't buy the USA version of an English product anyway, and I wouldn't buy a BMW or Rolex made in the USA either.

There's nothing inherently wrong with things made in the USA, but T&H isn't an American product. If there's "T&H Cream" made in the USA, it's not the same "T&H Cream" that the company's reputation was built on. The name on the package alone doesn't matter, the product inside does, and if this T&H is made in the USA, it's not the same product.

[Malakas1981]

My thoughts exactly

[ruebis]

Just an FYI regarding amazon and this matter -

I received the counterfeit tub from Amazon, contacted them this morning and they apologized. They are sending me out a legitimate tub at no cost to me and escalating the issue to their fraud dept, or whomever it is that looks into these matters. They said no return was necessary and I could just dispose of the product I currently have.

[JeffE]

As I read it, they didn't say it was a counterfeit product, just that the packaging was not official T+H bowl.
Maybe someone got some bulk product through the secondary market and is trying to sell it off quietly?

I didn't read the email that way, but I can see what you mean. From what I understand, the reference to "Shaving Cream Bowls" means the entire product -- that is, the bowl filled with shaving cream. They also sell the same shaving cream in tubes, so I think that's why they refer to the first product as "Shaving Cream Bowls".

I agree this is a little messed up. I also checked on Straight Razor Designs (www.straightrazordesigns.com), and they are also selling the "Made in the US for T&H" version. Now maybe Amazon might get a bad batch of product now and then, but I don't see Lynn Abrams trying to sell anything other than the genuine product.

So the question is really this -- what is actually going on between the T&H distributor in Chicago and the T&H headquarters in London?! If the T&H distributor in Chicago is selling a product without the permission of the London headquarters, then it might technically make the product a "counterfeit" but I agree that it's a much more complicated story than someone who is just a criminal selling the same product. Maybe the people in Chicago think that they are permitted to sell the "US" product. Maybe the guy in the UK doesn't know what the situation is with the Chicago distributor. Anyway, I'm sure I will find out more after the weekend.

Who knew that there was so much drama in shaving cream?!

[DamnFineBob]

I didn't read the email that way, but I can see what you mean. From what I understand, the reference to "Shaving Cream Bowls" means the entire product -- that is, the bowl filled with shaving cream. They also sell the same shaving cream in tubes, so I think that's why they refer to the first product as "Shaving Cream Bowls".

I agree this is a little messed up. I also checked on Straight Razor Designs (www.straightrazordesigns.com), and they are also selling the "Made in the US for T&H" version. Now maybe Amazon might get a bad batch of product now and then, but I don't see Lynn Abrams trying to sell anything other than the genuine product.

So the question is really this -- what is actually going on between the T&H distributor in Chicago and the T&H headquarters in London?! If the T&H distributor in Chicago is selling a product without the permission of the London headquarters, then it might technically make the product a "counterfeit" but I agree that it's a much more complicated story than someone who is just a criminal selling the same product. Maybe the people in Chicago think that they are permitted to sell the "US" product. Maybe the guy in the UK doesn't know what the situation is with the Chicago distributor. Anyway, I'm sure I will find out more after the weekend.

Who knew that there was so much drama in shaving cream?!

Or, maybe Truefitt & Hill have quietly started to outsource their production to save a few £'s, but kept it quiet from their own customer service reps, out of fear that they may leak the news to the factory guys. It could be that what you have there is genuine Caswell-Massey cream! :sosp:

At any rate, when a person buys a product from a British company that displays a Royal Warrant, one would expect the product to actually be made in Britain! Maybe it would be acceptable for it to be made in Canada, since the Queen is still on their money, and all... but this mystery goo of indeterminate origin doesn't seem acceptable.

[Derek1984]

I know I wouldn't buy the USA version of an English product anyway, and I wouldn't buy a BMW or Rolex made in the USA either.

There's nothing inherently wrong with things made in the USA, but T&H isn't an American product. If there's "T&H Cream" made in the USA, it's not the same "T&H Cream" that the company's reputation was built on. The name on the package alone doesn't matter, the product inside does, and if this T&H is made in the USA, it's not the same product.


So where is a good place to buy T&H? I've bought the Ultimate Comfort from both the T&H US website and from Amazon. In both cases, the product were exactly the same. Is there two different formulas for the Ultimate Comfort (US/UK)? All I know is that I've been happy with the Ultimate Comfort from the US T&H store and Amazon and for the most part, reviews have been positive on it.

[Codfish]

Great work, Jeff, and thanks for the heads-up!

[Derek1984]

It's just fortunate that I happened to have a tub of the genuine stuff in reserve, because if I was out of the original, I might have been fooled by the appearance of the counterfeit. The counterfeit looks like your basic, white, goopy, glycerin-based shaving cream. The smell is neutral and nothing about it (other than the packaging) looked suspicious. Now that I know it's counterfeit, I opened the genuine tub and could see immediately that the counterfeit stuff is much more oily and runny in consistency. The counterfeit is also smeared all over the sides and top of the inside of the container, whereas the genuine T&H shave cream tends to stay in just one place, no matter how hard you shake the tub around.

I'm going to return the counterfeits for a full refund, so I didn't take any out to shave with, and frankly I'd be a little scared to use it for shaving. Now that I know it's a fake, who knows what sort of crud they scraped together to make it.


Does the smell have any hint of lavender?

[TZee]

There's confusion here, and I think the person who sent the email was confused.

[Derek1984]

I've never ordered the Ultimate Comfort and have it come in a box. But between the packaging label and consistency in the cream, going by the pictures provided, I am not sure if want you got from Amazon.com was really counterfeit. There certainly is some confusion here.

[ruebis]

Derek, my cream from amazon does have a hint of lavender in it btw.

[Derek1984]

Derek, my cream from amazon does have a hint of lavender in it btw.


Okay. Well it is supposed to have that hint of lavender. Do you have a Lot# located on the bottom of the cream?

[CFSoto]

Just another thank you Jeff for the 'heads up'. During the past month I also bought 2 tubs of this cream thru Amazon. I just checked them and they look exactly like the 'phony' ones you pictured. Although it was sold thru Amazom.com,the actual store that supplied my two tubs of counterfeit cream was a store called 'Sesto Senso'. I believe they are based back east. I've done business directly with them before and never(to my knowledge)had any problem. Does anyone out there have any info on the Sesto Senso company? Thanks again Jeff.

Craig

[xillion]

Does anyone out there have any info on the Sesto Senso company?

Here is a link to their main site.

http://www.sesto-senso.com/

I ordered some Musgo from them several years ago.

[Go West Young Man]

Does the cream perform well? Would you have known the difference without this thread?

[mikey]

Just to be the devil's advocate,

I wouldn't call it counterfit just yet.

I seem to remember a thread quite a while ago regarding two versions of T&H Ultimate Comfort Pre-Shave Oil. If I recall correctly, one was labeled 'Made in the USA for T&H' and the other was 'Made in the UK'. The list of ingredients were slightly different (which could have been due to different labelling requirements for the US and EU). I think it was established? that some of T&H products are made in the USA for the North American market.

I will see if I can locate the thread.

Thanks,
Mike

PS: Jeff, I would email T&H USA and see what their reply is before proceeding further.

[BurkDarkpatches]

I don't see any rock-solid proof that the T&H cream is counterfeit. This just may be a US version of the cream (for better or worse) and packaged differently. The fact that a T&H diligent employee/drone in England doesn't know about it doesn't constitute proof.

Why is there a B&B banner story stating, "Counterfeit T&H shaving cream from Amazon.com"? How about "Possible Counterfeit...?"

Why is there a review at Amazon stating the same?

Why not email the US affiliate first instead of getting everyone all in a lather?

Maybe it IS a huge shaving gear counterfeiting cabal (Williams DOES make great shaving soap, we've just been buying counterfeit! Merkur DOES make great razor blades!) and you're a hero. Maybe not.

Steve

Edit: What Mike said, just different words.

[mikey]

Before anyone jumps down my throat,

Take another product as an example: Gillette 7 O'clock Super Platinum DE blades. The black-label product is made in India whereas the blue-label product is made in Russia.

Two legitimate products in two different packages manufactured in two different places for two different markets.

Thanks,
Mike

[CyberJCM]

I agree. This shouldn't be front page B & B news until it's actually verified factual news.

Right now it kinda reads like an MSNBC piece on the Tea Party.

[blood_type_O]

I agree. This shouldn't be front page B & B news until it's actually verified factual news.

Right now it kinda reads like an MSNBC piece on the Tea Party.


I agree. B&B should remove the front page news on this subject until much more is known.
Unnecessary bashing of Amazon, until the truth is determined.
Seems more like a misunderstanding than anything else.

[MarkStar]

There's confusion here, and I think the person who sent the email was confused.



Just to be the devil's advocate,

I wouldn't call it counterfit just yet.

I seem to remember a thread quite a while ago regarding two versions of T&H Ultimate Comfort Pre-Shave Oil. If I recall correctly, one was labeled 'Made in the USA for T&H' and the other was 'Made in the UK'. The list of ingredients were slightly different (which could have been due to different labelling requirements for the US and EU). I think it was established? that some of T&H products are made in the USA for the North American market.

I will see if I can locate the thread.

Thanks,
Mike

PS: Jeff, I would email T&H USA and see what their reply is before proceeding further.


I don't see any rock-solid proof that the T&H cream is counterfeit. This just may be a US version of the cream (for better or worse) and packaged differently. The fact that a T&H diligent employee/drone in England doesn't know about it doesn't constitute proof.

Why is there a B&B banner story stating, "Counterfeit T&H shaving cream from Amazon.com"? How about "Possible Counterfeit...?"

Why is there a review at Amazon stating the same?

Why not email the US affiliate first instead of getting everyone all in a lather?

Maybe it IS a huge shaving gear counterfeiting cabal (Williams DOES make great shaving soap, we've just been buying counterfeit! Merkur DOES make great razor blades!) and you're a hero. Maybe not.

Steve

Edit: What Mike said, just different words.


I agree. This shouldn't be front page B & B news until it's actually verified factual news.

Right now it kinda reads like an MSNBC piece on the Tea Party.


I agree. B&B should remove the front page news on this subject until much more is known.
Unnecessary bashing of Amazon, until the truth is determined.
Seems more like a misunderstanding than anything else.

I agree. Perhaps the title could be changed?

[noahpictures]

I agree. This shouldn't be front page B & B news until it's actually verified factual news.

Right now it kinda reads like an MSNBC piece on the Tea Party.

Or like a Fox News piece on science, facts, reason, logic...but like yourself I digressed. I am glad the op is sharing this info. I find it valuable.

[soulbarn]

I'm surprised that somebody from the UK T&H hasn't appeared here to definitively sort this out. Does anyone have any contacts with them? A request that they examine this thread and address the confusion/problem would most likely be welcome; no company wants to see such stuff floating around, real, partially-real, or rumored.

[J.K.T.]

I couldve swore that version was produced in North America but maybe I read wrong. Something about just that version being produced in Canada? Who knows. I would contact T&H US to see if they know anything about it.

[DaveNJ74]

I had the same clear tub months ago and I got it from one of our vendors. I didnt event think it was counterfeit but I did notice that they show the tubs in solid grey on certain websites. If you order rom TH US, what tub do you get? Gray or clear? If clear is counterfeit then I had a counterfeit.

[J.K.T.]

Well I think T&H has some explaining since http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/61982-Truefitt-amp-Hill-Made-in-********. Clearly states that it was produced in Canada and many sites have it listed as being made in Canada or the US. Here is a review from Royal Shave.
Absolutely no irritation, 4.20.2011
Reviewer: Gerald (Stanford, CA)

Out of all the Truefitt & Hill creams, this cream works the best for my skin. The packaging is ostensibly different from the regular scented Truefitt & Hill creams - the jar of cream comes with no outer cardboard box, and the label on the jar is a paper sticker instead of printing. Finally, this cream is made in the USA instead of the UK. All in all, a good cream that I'm glad to have in my rotation.

T&H UK kind of screwed up in a bad way. I kind of gave up on them after they changed the Sandalwood scent but this might be the nail in the coffin.

[Blue Raccoon]

I am glad the op is sharing this info. I find it valuable

I can't find anything valuable in this thread. Don't seem to be any 'facts'. I am sure that Amazon would not knowingly sell a faked product. Seems like most sites on this side of the pond show product without the box. Why bash Amazon they immediately offered to send new product and investigate and I'm sure if they find a problem they will drop the hammer on whomever is to blame. I would contact T&H in Chicago and get their side of this and maybe include your response from T&H UK. Now if it turns out your original product was genuine do you think it would be fair of Amazon to come after you for this post?

[DaveNJ74]

So where can you get the tub in the grey color?

[Derek1984]

I had the same clear tub months ago and I got it from one of our vendors. I didnt event think it was counterfeit but I did notice that they show the tubs in solid grey on certain websites. If you order rom TH US, what tub do you get? Gray or clear? If clear is counterfeit then I had a counterfeit.


I ordered from the US T&H site 3 months ago - Got the clear tub.

Last week I ordered from Amazon - Got the clear tub.

[CyberJCM]

Or like a Fox News piece on science, facts, reason, logic...but like yourself I digressed. I am glad the op is sharing this info. I find it valuable.

So would I, assuming it contained "science, facts, reason, logic". So far, that has been placed in doubt.

I don't think it's the OP's fault though. He's just trying to be dilligent and look out for the community. My problem herein is that it's supposition presented to us as urgent and damning facts. That's just wrong until it's been proven as such.

[DaveNJ74]

So would I, assuming it contained "science, facts, reason, logic". So far, that has been placed in doubt.

I don't think it's the OP's fault though. He's just trying to be dilligent and look out for the community. My problem herein is that it's supposition presented to us as urgent and damning facts. That's just wrong until it's been proven as such.

But didnt he get a letter from T&H saying the clear one are counterfeit? Those would be the same ones T&H sends out.

[Blue Raccoon]

sounds like a lot of folks have been getting the clear tub form multiples sources (even b&B vendors) for some time now. IF it turns out to be a problem it's on a much wider scale then just Amazon.

[Go West Young Man]

But didnt he get a letter from T&H saying the clear one are counterfeit? Those would be the same ones T&H sends out.

No, he got a letter saying the packaging wasn't right for the European product.

[DaveNJ74]

No, he got a letter saying the packaging wasn't right for the European product.

Ah ok, sorry. I had to re-read that.

[cbogg]

Seems more like it's not counterfeit, but possibly an inferior version of a well known product sold by the original maker to a non home market. This probably wouldn't be the first case of an inferior product passed off to us "stupid americans", probably won't be the last. And if this ends up being the case, really would show what they think not only about their own product, but also about who is buying it.

[Arturius]

They need to get to work on their vendor control...not first I;m seeing this kind of thing

[Apoc220]

This doesn't surprise me, TBH. I mean, times are tough, so companies EVERYWHERE are cutting corners. Not saying that this is the case, but I've seen plenty of times where products made in different countries vary greatly. Recent example, cheddar pringles. Here in Australia we have cheddar pringles that are a pale orange with a slight cheddar flavor. I didn't think anything of it until I got some pringles that were imported from the U.S. They were a bright orange and bursting with cheddar flavor. Obviously shaving cream and pringles are different, but the concept is the same. Products made in different countries don't always have the same quality. Sometimes base ingredients are swapped with cheaper alternatives, and everything drags down from there. Just sayin...

[leonidas]

................it was probably made in china or india....................

[DamnFineBob]

I agree. This shouldn't be front page B & B news until it's actually verified factual news.

Right now it kinda reads like an MSNBC piece on the Tea Party.


Or like a Fox News piece on science, facts, reason, logic...but like yourself I digressed. I am glad the op is sharing this info. I find it valuable.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM

[mwleach58]

Geeze, now I'm starting to question the veracity of my latest puck of Williams...

[Aaron622]

I can't believe that this thread is on the B&B homepage and that it's been allowed to carry on this far. It's ridiculous and borderline slanderous. I mean, to imply that the T&H US site is fake and selling counterfeit product. They are member of this and other shaving forums and give forum discounts. I could go to the T&H store in Chicago now and take a picture of the product there, and it would look like the one in this thread. This packaging and product is nothing new. Here in full is HoratioCaine's review of this product from April 16, 2010:

"I thought I'd post an update on some of the changes that have occurred with the cream since T&H has changed production facilities for it. About a year or so ago, T&H UC cream practically disappeared from the market, and was not available anywhere. During this time it was rumored T&H was switching their production facility for the cream from a Canadian manufacturer to one in the U.S. Last June, new stock finally became available. Not needing any more until now, I just received a shipment of the new stock of the cream, which I ordered from T&H in Chicago.

- Tubs are no longer boxed, but are shipped as is. The ingredients are now listed on an adhesive label affixed to the bottom of the tub.

- The UC cream is indeed now made in U.S.A.

- Tubs are no longer made of grey-silver, opaque plastic, but are now glossy, transparent, non-tinted plastic. The raised lettering on the edge of the lid is gone; new lid edges are smooth, and without lettering.

- The label on top of the tub is once again an adhesive label, saying the cream is "unscented." The base color of the label is an ultra-bright white, with dark grey/slate lettering. The label looks crisp from a distance, but up close some dot matrix-type edges are evident in the lettering and Royal Warrant.

- The new tubs hold 170g (6 oz.) of product, compared to 165g (5.8 oz.) with the old tubs. Other members report having clear tubs containing USA-made product that hold 164g, so this increase in size appears to be a fairly recent change.

- The inner lid is no longer the heavy foil/plastic that would wedge into the main lid and stay in place as a seal. It is now a flimsy plastic lid that seems designed to be discarded once removed. One could continue to keep it in place to guard against dehydration, but so far mine will not stay affixed to the main lid. Instead, it sticks to the cream in the tub and must be removed for each use, making a bit of a mess in the process.

- The cream in the tub is of a very light consistency, almost like room-temperature Betty Crocker cake frosting, and is slightly smoother in texture than the Canadian-made product. Although T&H UC cream has always been lighter than T&H's traditional creams, this is light even by those standards.

- The ingredients remain the same as the Canadian product. The light lavender scent also remains the same as it always has been. T&H UC cream has always been paraben free.

- Latherability and function are both outstanding - equal to, or better than, the Canadian-made product. Appearances and texture aside, once I was lathering and shaving with this cream, I was hard-pressed to note any differences between the current cream and older generations of it – except for the possibility that the lather might have been ever-so-slightly fuller.

Although the design of the tub is undoubtedly striking in its minimalist appeal, I happen to find it a bit out of step with T&H's general ethos of tradition and upper-crust appeal. The older, silver tubs seemed to strike the right balance between modernity and tradition. This new tub screams modern all the way. Having said that, the cream itself is as good as always, so faithful users need not worry about replenishing their stock."

As you can see, the product is in different packaging, is made in the US, and has a lighter consistency. So either "T&H U.S.A." is some massive scam operation that just got uncovered, or one person isn't happy with the newer formulation/packaging :thumbdown.

[sas71]

B&B members get IIRC 15% at the Truefitt US site

[Mysterio]

Well said Aaron662. Perhaps the saddest thing is that he already alerted Amazon to the "fraud", who is now wasting time and money passing it on to their fraud investigation department, and managed to get an apology and a tub of free product from them when in fact there was nothing wrong... :bored:

[doug1066]

Just for clarification:

Has the T&H sold by Amazon been proven to be counterfeit?

Did the OP resolve the situation with Amazon?

Is Amazon taking steps to make sure that the T&H products they sell are genuine?

Is this merely confusion over whether or not this is UK manufactured or US manufactured T&H?

[CFSoto]

Just want to add some updated info. The company from whom Amazon acquired the T+H Comfort Shave cream is Sesto Senso(at least as it pertained to my order) .Over the past couple years I've done quite alot of business with Sesto Senso directly and have never had a problem(great customer service BTW). At any rate,I contacted a very helpful lady at Sesto Senso today and she advised me that the product they sell is absolutely legit and they bought it directly fom The US branch of Truefitt+Hill located in Chicago.She assured me that they've done business with them for sometime and they are entirely legitimate. So perhaps the employee of T+H in Britain who stated the Made in USA product was counterfeit was misinformed or mistaken.

Craig

[Blue Raccoon]

sounds more like Amazon and T&H have been the ones screwed over (plus assorted b&B vendors).. and I get hammered by a member (not a mod) about posting about a coffee roaster in MA and hawking their product here. Which I have no interest in one way or the other. Then this thread goes 4 pages and calls Amazon and T&H out for as it looks nothing. Hope no one complains about losing their T&H discount. Guess it's one way to get a 2 for 1 from Amazon.

[CyberJCM]

sounds more like Amazon and T&H have been the ones screwed over (plus assorted b&B vendors).. and I get hammered by a member (not a mod) about posting about a coffee roaster in MA and hawking their product here. Which I have no interest in one way or the other. Then this thread goes 4 pages and calls Amazon and T&H out for as it looks nothing. Hope no one complains about losing their T&H discount. Guess it's one way to get a 2 for 1 from Amazon.

I hear ya. And pretty much agree with you. Though, I don't think it was the OP's intention to do something underhanded or to cause problems for anyone. I think he, and everyone associated with presenting this thread as it was, jumped the gun big time and made assumptions based on minimal information.

[JeffE]

Guys, I don't mean to mislead anyone, and if you read my postings, you'll see that I haven't "jumped the gun".

I got a product from Amazon and didn't recognize the packaging, which looked quite ragged and "amateur" compared to what I'm used to. I also saw that the packaging did NOT match the photo on Amazon, which is a big no-noin E-commerce.

I wrote to T&H in ENGLAND -the headquarters of the company - to complain. And THEY WROTE BACK AND IDENTIFIED THE PRODUCT AS COUNTERFEIT. Not me. So I thought it was interesting enough to share here.

Now it looks like the story is even more complicated, because the "counterfeit" actually appears to come from a legitimate source. Well, that's interesting too, because it raises the question of why T&H UK would identify something as counterfeit when it comes from T&H USA.

But there's no cause to compare me to Fox News or MSNBC or whoever you have a problem with these days. I brought up an interesting email I got about what a company said was counterfeit. And now there's even more fact thats I didn't know when I posted my first message - facts that come from other members here. Isnt't this what a "forum" or a "discussion" is about?

[Go West Young Man]

They never said it was counterfeit, they said they didn't recognize the packaging.

[DSB]

They never said it was counterfeit, they said they didn't recognize the packaging.

Maybe I missed something, but T&H did not say they did not recognize the packaging. They did say the item pictured "is not a Truefitt and Hill product." Here is the quote from T&H that Jeff provided in the opening post:

"We can assure you that the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product and that all genuine T&H Shaving Cream Bowls are manufactured in the UK"

A Truefitt and Hill representative "assured" Jeff that "the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product." If they are assuring him that he received a product with a Truefitt and Hill label, but that "it is not a Truefitt and Hill product," then the natural assumption is that it's counterfeit.

I have not idea why people are jumping on the OP. He did everything right: He suspected a problem and contacted the company. He didn't post until being assured by Truefitt and Hill that it "is not a Truefitt and Hill product. . . . " People should be mored concerned that Truefitt and Hill headquarters doesn't seem to know what Truefitt and Hill USA are doing with their product line, and there is a difference in packaging.

It's time to let this go. Truefitt and Hill UK made a mistake. The OP relied on their mistake in posting his concerns. Blame T&H UK, not the OP.

[Kevan]

They never said it was counterfeit, they said they didn't recognize the packaging.
From the OP's posted email from T&H:

"We can assure you that the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product."

I would interpret that as them saying yes, it's counterfeit. I guess whoever wrote the email (probably a low-level customer service graemlin) was unaware that the US portion of T&H changed the packaging. Regarding the actual cream's appearance, that was much ado about nothing. There have been MANY instances on the forum of members posting photos of cream they receive and wondering why it differed from what they've heard or experienced in the past, i.e., "My new TOBS/Castle Forbes/Harris cream isn't as dense as it should be!" and almost always it comes down to the cream being affected by either heat or being tossed about in transit or who knows what else.

[DamnFineBob]

Dear Mr ________,



Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to write to us and for supplying the photo.



We can assure you that the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product and that all genuine T&H Shaving Cream Bowls are manufactured in the UK.



Please contact Amazon to apprise them of this. We would be very grateful if you would reply to us with any further information you gather.



Thanks and Kind Regards,



Adrian Williams

TRUEFITT & HILL (Gentlemen's Grooming) Ltd

71 St James's Street

London SW1A 1PH

tel. 020 7493 8496 | fax. 020 7499 5325



www.truefittandhill.co.uk (UK & International)


Here is the quote from T&H that Jeff provided in the opening post:

"We can assure you that the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product and that all genuine T&H Shaving Cream Bowls are manufactured in the UK"

A Truefitt and Hill representative "assured" Jeff that "the item in the picture is not a Truefitt and Hill product." If they are assuring him that he received a product with a Truefitt and Hill label, but that "it is not a Truefitt and Hill product," then the natural assumption is that it's counterfeit.

I have not idea why people are jumping on the OP. He did everything right: He suspected a problem and contacted the company. He didn't post until being assured by Truefitt and Hill that "it is not a Truefitt and Hill product." People should be mored concerned that Truefitt and Hill headquarters doesn't seem to know what Truefitt and Hill USA are doing with their product line.

Agreed. The OP created this thread in good faith, considering the information he received from T&H's world headquarters. I think the real issue is why T&H's American subsideriary is turning out a product so different from the rest of the line that customers question its authenticity, and why representatives at the same company's headquarters assume its a counterfeit.

[Blade Boy]

I must be confused, the tub on the T&H US site looks like the one you are calling a fake, maybe I missed something?

[The Nid Hog]

I think that this all comes down to the T&H UK functionary failing to understand what was going on and some bum scoop was inadvertently disseminated here. The review by Horatio Caine posted earlier says it all. T&H USA is using different packaging, but it's essentially the same cream. I'm sure that the OP had the best intentions but it's probably time to back down now. If you like old packaging, etc., you can always order from a UK vendor; if you don't care and want the B&B discount, order from Amazon or the Chicago office. If someone really wants to get to the bottom of this, it should be easy to get in touch with somebody in Chicago--they're vendors here, aren't they? I remember that somebody from T&H used to post here occasionally.

Let's all take a deep breath and let this go. Happy shaves!

[kingfisher]

Seems more like it's not counterfeit, but possibly an inferior version of a well known product sold by the original maker to a non home market. .....

Actually, it seems to me that we don't even know if the product is inferior, since the OP never shaved with it. All we know is that it's "different."

I seem to remember that at least some of the UC cream was made in Canada for the U.S. market from threads from a year or two back. Before everybody gets bent out of shape, it might be nice for somebody to see how the stuff shaves.

[CFSoto]

Actually, it seems to me that we don't even know if the product is inferior, since the OP never shaved with it. All we know is that it's "different."

I seem to remember that at least some of the UC cream was made in Canada for the U.S. market from threads from a year or two back. Before everybody gets bent out of shape, it might be nice for somebody to see how the stuff shaves.

Hello kingfisher,

I actually have shaved with both the Ultimate Comfort Shave types,the one manufactured in Britain(which I bought quite awhile back) and the 'Made in USA' type which I bought very recently thru Amazon. I know its subjective but IMO,the older product made in England is much thicker and produces much richer and more protective lather than the USA one. The VERY mild lavender scent is about the same in both types. I hope this info is helpful.

Craig

[Aaron622]

I don't doubt the OP's intentions especially based on the email from T&H UK he received (although this hardly be the first time a company spokesperson was less than knowledgeable about its own product). As I pointed out by quoting HoratioCaine's review, this formulation/packaging has been out for well over a year. The issue is more that B&B posted a thread full of unsubstantiated claims on the homepage. Fortunately it has since been removed, but still, T&H is a member here, and one would think B&B would contact them before highlighting a thread that basically says their entire North American operation is a sham.

[DaveNJ74]

Yes, by T&H saying that they are basically saying its counterfeit. Maybe they meant to say it wasnt a T&H UK product.

[tehtimmeh]

The US contact to reach out to and straighten all of this out would be Todd Fisher: [email protected]

Let him sort it all out and give you more info on the packaging disparity IMO.

[ackvil]

The US contact to reach out to and straighten all of this out would be Todd Fisher: [email protected]

Let him sort it all out and give you more info on the packaging disparity IMO.

I sent him an e-mail earlier and invited him to respond to this thread.

Previously, I e-mailed him and asked for the new T&H vendor discount code and got a response within two days.

[Obsessed]

Why is anyone upset with the OP? He had a legitimate concern, backed up by the email from T&H. And quibbling aside, the message from T&H did indeed say that the product the OP bought was counterfeit. The OP posted the information here for the benefit of the members, and in the course of the discussion, other information came up that may indicate that there's an explanation for the situation he encountered. That's good, isn't it?

Yes, maybe posting this thread on the homepage was hasty, but in defense of whomever did it, T&H did tell the OP that the product was counterfeit. It's hard to cast it as sandbagging T&H when it's based on an email from T&H.

[franz]

Yeah, it might be a question of the left hand (T&H UK) not knowing what the right hand (T&H USA) is doing. The OP made a reasonable effort to substantiate his concerns before posting on here, so there is no issue with what he did. I don't love the fact that it was posted immediately on the front page, but what's done is done.

The question I have is: two products, two markets, different packaging? Or is it one product, two markets, different packaging?

[JayHawkMechanic]

Sadly, add my name to his victims. I bought a tub and wasn't really impressed with the Noxzema looking crap considering how much I have liked some of their other creams, now I know why. My tub looks exactly like the picture on the T&H website, so I thought I was safe. Guess I'l just live and learn, clean out the tub and use it for travel purposes.

Chris

[biomesh]

Sadly, add my name to his victims. I bought a tub and wasn't really impressed with the Noxzema looking crap considering how much I have liked some of their other creams, now I know why. My tub looks exactly like the picture on the T&H website, so I thought I was safe. Guess I'l just live and learn, clean out the tub and use it for travel purposes.

Chris

I guess you have not read the entire thread. There was no counterfeit product.

[biomesh]

My only comment to the OP would be to adjust the product review on amazon that states that the product is counterfeit.

[Bigsurprise]

Sadly, add my name to his victims. I bought a tub and wasn't really impressed with the Noxzema looking crap considering how much I have liked some of their other creams, now I know why. My tub looks exactly like the picture on the T&H website, so I thought I was safe. Guess I'l just live and learn, clean out the tub and use it for travel purposes.

Chris

As biomesh has stated, it would seem unlikely that they are counterfeit products after reading the whole thread.

[gabern8tor]

Why is anyone upset with the OP? He had a legitimate concern, backed up by the email from T&H. And quibbling aside, the message from T&H did indeed say that the product the OP bought was counterfeit. The OP posted the information here for the benefit of the members, and in the course of the discussion, other information came up that may indicate that there's an explanation for the situation he encountered. That's good, isn't it?

Yes, maybe posting this thread on the homepage was hasty, but in defense of whomever did it, T&H did tell the OP that the product was counterfeit. It's hard to cast it as sandbagging T&H when it's based on an email from T&H.

Well said!

I have to add my name to the list supporting the OP. He had a valid concern, and he raised it. Personally, I'd hope that any member of a community such as ours would feel a moral obligation to do similar. I would similarly caution those who are flaming the OP over how this played out. We should all consider what effect this is likely to have on future situations where a member of this community has a legitimate concern about a product and voices it.

My perception is that the OP was looking out for all of us in posting his concerns, and he should hardly be criticized for his efforts. The fact that it may not have turned out to be a conterfeit product in the final analysis is irrelevant. He did a good thing, and I appreciate it.

Good to know we've got each others' back! :thumbup1:

[Bubbamike]

Never say never but I doubt that there is enough volume to justify counterfeiting this product.

[Drubbing]

T&H have worded their reply carefully. They never mentioned fake or counterfeit product, only that their shave cream bowls are made in the UK. It seems the US Tubs are repackaged, probably because of differing labelling requirement and measures, as the UK has long been metric. As for T&H coming on here, they're not going to do that. If there's a stateside issue, they'll probably deal with it and keep the details as their business. Companies who believe they have a certain image won't want to share.

That said, I've bought the same cream from TOBS a few times and got a different consistency product every time, once a bit runny, another moussy, another like a soft soap. I put it down to batch variation, they work and smell the same. As other's said, I'd be really surprised if there is a viable market for fake shaving cream.

[Rancho Unicorno]

After experiencing the highs and lows of this very long thread, I wonder if it might not be appropriate for the OP to update the original post to include the butter understanding that has been gained in the interim.

It takes a fair bit of parsing to realize that the only party at fault in this matter is T&H UK, suggesting that the tone of the post is reversed from what the facts have borne to be the truth. Having accurate information only later in the thread is akin to posting a correction that "the PE teacher in fact did not touch the girls and it was total fabrication on their part because they didn't want to run laps" on page A15 in 5 point font.

[JayHawkMechanic]

I guess you have not read the entire thread. There was no counterfeit product.

I stand corrected. I thought I had read the entire posting but come to find out I missed the last two pages so, not only do I stand corrected but I have to man up and eat some crow. The tub I have looks like a big tub of Noxzema, honestly, nothing like the couple of other T&H creams I have tried, and it was one of the first creams I bought when I began to DE shave. For the money I was not impressed and haven't used it in over four months. Decided to try it again this morning so when somebody ask's if I've even used it I can say yes. Well, I got a damn fine shave this morning. I would have never thought about it being counterfeit
until I read this thread, I just thought it was a subpar cream and chalked it up to a noob learning experience. I was wrong. Now, I have to go bbq some crow ;)


Chris

[Obsessed]

After experiencing the highs and lows of this very long thread, I wonder if it might not be appropriate for the OP to update the original post to include the butter understanding that has been gained in the interim.

It takes a fair bit of parsing to realize that the only party at fault in this matter is T&H UK, suggesting that the tone of the post is reversed from what the facts have borne to be the truth. Having accurate information only later in the thread is akin to posting a correction that "the PE teacher in fact did not touch the girls and it was total fabrication on their part because they didn't want to run laps" on page A15 in 5 point font.

Well, it's akin to that only in the remotest, most technical sense. Sheesh, this is only shaving cream, fellas.

[Rancho Unicorno]

Well, it's akin to that only in the remotest, most technical sense. Sheesh, this is only shaving cream, fellas.

I know. I must ask for the hyperbole to be pardoned, but the tone of the thread for the first few pages had the same tenor that can be enjoyed on the comments to the aforementioned news stories.

Nevertheless, I still think it would be nice to see a correction on the front page.

[luvmysuper]

Interested parties may view this post by Truefitt & Hill, North America

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/249255-Truefitt-amp-Hill-Ultimate-Comfort-Shaving-Cream-Clarification

[Drubbing]

Just more proof that given a number of theories in absence of all the facts, the simplest expanation is the most likely.

It always appeared simply non economical for a fake shaving cream market to exist, and so it seems.

[BurkDarkpatches]

Just more proof that given a number of theories in absence of all the facts, the simplest expanation is the most likely.

It always appeared simply non economical for a fake shaving cream market to exist, and so it seems.

No kidding. I'd love to be able to PIF Occam's Razor.

Steve

[mikey]

Ooh, a PIF. Count me in please. :>)

Thanks,
Mike


No kidding. I'd love to be able to PIF Occam's Razor.

Steve

[mikey]

Hello Jeff,

In light of T&H NA's clarification, will you be correcting/deleting your premature/innacurate review on Amazon?

Thanks,
Mike


Guys, I don't mean to mislead anyone, and if you read my postings, you'll see that I haven't "jumped the gun"...



EDIT:

In light of T&H NA's clarification, will you be updating/amending your review on Amazon?

[insomniac]

Can we at least edit the thread title to say "False Alarm" or "Oopsies!"? A mod may need to do that, but it would be nice since as others have mentioned, you have to scroll several pages to find out that the product wasn't counterfeit.

Besides, I thought UC wasn't even made in UK, that it was a (I believe) Canadian product.

[luvmysuper]

Folks - The OP didn't do anything wrong.
Information which was at the root of the confusion came directly from Truefitt & Hill.

The OP has nothing to apologize about, and won't be making any correction.

If there is any more pressure brought to bear on the OP to make "corrections" to his truthful and correct post, I'll close the thread.

[mikey]

Hello Phil,

I don't think anyone specifically asked for an APOLOGY.

However, wouldn't it be wise and appropriate for the OP to acknowledge the fact that the product in question is, in fact, NOT counterfit (much the way a newspaper would publish a correction notice)?

Thanks,
Mike




Folks - The OP didn't do anything wrong.
Information which was at the root of the confusion came directly from Truefitt & Hill.

The OP has nothing to apologize about, and won't be making any correction.

If there is any more pressure brought to bear on the OP to make "corrections" to his truthful and correct post, I'll close the thread.

[luvmysuper]

Hello Phil,

I don't think anyone specifically asked for an APOLOGY.

However, wouldn't it be wise and appropriate for the OP to acknowledge the fact that the product in question is, in fact, NOT counterfit (much the way a newspaper would publish a correction notice)?

Thanks,
Mike

The OP made a statement based on what he was told by an entity from a Corporate Group.
Subsequently, it turns out the entity providing the information was wrong.
That has been well stated in this thread. Numerous times.

Truly - What else needs to be said?

This is NOT a newspaper.
The OP didn't make the mistake, Truefitt & Hill did.
There is NOTHING to retract, because this was NOT an article in a newspaper, it was an evolving conversation where the truth came to light.

Truefitt & Hill North America has made a statement on this very forum, stating that T&H UK made the mistake.

[cbogg]

Hello Phil,

I don't think anyone specifically asked for an APOLOGY.

However, wouldn't it be wise and appropriate for the OP to acknowledge the fact that the product in question is, in fact, NOT counterfit (much the way a newspaper would publish a correction notice)?

Thanks,
Mike

No because at the end of the day, he wasn't wrong, but misinformed by the company in question. I do not believe any wrong doing on the part of the op, he was merely passing along information from TH, no retraction required, the thead in which TH responded was posted here and the title edited.

/story

[JeffE]

Gentlemen, I DO apologize if my original post caused any confusion. My initial intentions were good -- I just wanted to pass on information I received from a legitimate source (Adrian Williams of T&H headquarters in London). It was not even a possibility in my mind that someone in the UK headquarters would identify it mistakenly as counterfeit, and the information that was posted here subsequently was a surprise to me.

Anyway, I have revised my review of this product on Amazon.com and have sent the following message to T&H in London:


Dear Adrian and Joanna,

Again, I appreciate the help with this matter, and I brought this matter to the attention of Amazon. Amazon, being one of the most customer-service oriented retailers in the world, refunded my money immediately, so no problem there.

On the other hand, I have also posted a message about this product on www.badgerandblade.com, a popular shaving website, and over the weekend, a representative from Truefitt & Hill's Chicago office responded by stating that the product I received was in fact genuine and not counterfeit.

Would you please let me know if this information is correct and, if so, would you also let me know if there is still some place to purchase the "UK version" of your Ultimate Comfort shaving cream, as I was not impressed with what I received from Amazon, whether it is a legitimate product or not.

Thanks. --Jeff

Anyway, I will let you know when I hear anything back from T&H in London.



Hello Phil,

I don't think anyone specifically asked for an APOLOGY.

However, wouldn't it be wise and appropriate for the OP to acknowledge the fact that the product in question is, in fact, NOT counterfit (much the way a newspaper would publish a correction notice)?

Thanks,
Mike

[bkfist]

I don't doubt the OP's intentions especially based on the email from T&H UK he received (although this hardly be the first time a company spokesperson was less than knowledgeable about its own product). As I pointed out by quoting HoratioCaine's review, this formulation/packaging has been out for well over a year. The issue is more that B&B posted a thread full of unsubstantiated claims on the homepage. Fortunately it has since been removed, but still, T&H is a member here, and one would think B&B would contact them before highlighting a thread that basically says their entire North American operation is a sham.

B&B was NOT claiming the whole N/A operation of T&H was a sham... At the time the post was moved to the front page, it was still assumed, that the product being sold on Amazon was a counterfeit product.

The blame here, for everything, in my view, is T&H UK, who said the product pictured was not a genuine T&H product. Nothing is more clear than that. Any damage to the reputation of T&H is solely of T&H's own doing.

It's a shame for all involved, but it was neither the OP's fault, nor B&B's fault. B&B responded by removing this from the front page as soon as it became apparent what was happening, and that the product was almost certainly a legitimate product.

[The Nid Hog]

Jeff--no reason to feel bad.

[mikey]

Hello Jeff,

I don't think anyone is questioning your intentions and there is no need to apologize. That being said, thank you for acknowledging/correcting/clarifying your review on Amazon and this thread here on B&B.

Thanks,
Mike


Gentlemen, I DO apologize if my original post caused any confusion. My initial intentions were good -- I just wanted to pass on information I received from a legitimate source (Adrian Williams of T&H headquarters in London). It was not even a possibility in my mind that someone in the UK headquarters would identify it mistakenly as counterfeit, and the information that was posted here subsequently was a surprise to me.

Anyway, I have revised my review of this product on Amazon.com and have sent the following message to T&H in London:


Dear Adrian and Joanna,

Again, I appreciate the help with this matter, and I brought this matter to the attention of Amazon. Amazon, being one of the most customer-service oriented retailers in the world, refunded my money immediately, so no problem there.

On the other hand, I have also posted a message about this product on www.badgerandblade.com (http://www.badgerandblade.com), a popular shaving website, and over the weekend, a representative from Truefitt & Hill's Chicago office responded by stating that the product I received was in fact genuine and not counterfeit.

Would you please let me know if this information is correct and, if so, would you also let me know if there is still some place to purchase the "UK version" of your Ultimate Comfort shaving cream, as I was not impressed with what I received from Amazon, whether it is a legitimate product or not.

Thanks. --Jeff

Anyway, I will let you know when I hear anything back from T&H in London.

[Aaron622]

B&B was NOT claiming the whole N/A operation of T&H was a sham... At the time the post was moved to the front page, it was still assumed, that the product being sold on Amazon was a counterfeit product.

The blame here, for everything, in my view, is T&H UK, who said the product pictured was not a genuine T&H product. Nothing is more clear than that. Any damage to the reputation of T&H is solely of T&H's own doing.

It's a shame for all involved, but it was neither the OP's fault, nor B&B's fault. B&B responded by removing this from the front page as soon as it became apparent what was happening, and that the product was almost certainly a legitimate product.

I never said that B&B said that T&H NA was a sham. I said it was highlighting a thread that hinted at this. I simply think that B&B should have exercised a bit more restraint.

[livingontheedge]

It is a Trufitt and Hill, North America, product but does anyone know if the same formula is used by both T&H NA and T&H UK?