A Political Controversial Topic Forum

[TimmyBoston]

I may be alone in this, but I am getting really tired of all the political discussions on both sides of the political spectrum, because despite our being gentleman and very much liking the members of this board, I am getting very tired of reading all the political debates. No one's opinions are ever changed, it's just the same arguments going back and forth. I know these discussions are well within B&B guidelines and I'm not saying they should be banned, but possibly we could develop a new forum, this could also really relieve tensions in the Barbershop, which at times can be aggressive.

[adildhanani]

I agree with you when you say that its the same old, same old, however, isn't that what barbershops are... places for older (and younger) men to get together and talk, argue and philosophise about their worlds??

[TimmyBoston]

I agree with you when you say that its the same old, same old, however, isn't that what barbershops are... places for older (and younger) men to get together and talk, argue and philosophise about their worlds??

Still we can do that in another forum. I know I'm absolutely sick of the stupid arguements that never end. Why do you have to argue in the Barbershop, can't we have the Whatever, I can't think of a good name at the moment, to argue in?

Edit: When I say Stupid Arguments, I'm not saying the Liberal or the Conservative Side is stupid, but the way we just argue and argue is stupid and I've been a part of that myself. I just want to be clear on that. But this is only my opinion, but I don't feel I'm alone, there are those who really enjoy a good, rousing debate and at times they are nice, but it's also nice to have a place to go where these can be discussed freely and without worry and without cloggiing the Barbershop which in general is very lighthearted, a place for jokes and stories, great information and good off topic fun, which is really why I feel a new forum added in the "Everything Else" category would be highly beneficial to the board and all members.

[schwarz]

I may be alone in this, but I am getting really tired of all the political discussions on both sides of the political spectrum, because despite our being gentleman and very much liking the members of this board, I am getting very tired of reading all the political debates.

No...not alone.:001_smile

[gse123]

They are tiresome, which is why I stick mostly to the shaving talk sections of the forum. I can go anywhere to have political viewpoints shoved down my throat... I can't go anywhere to have good shaving banter! :001_smile

[krawlx]

I can go anywhere to have political viewpoints shoved down my throat... I can't go anywhere to have good shaving banter!

I don't mind the politically controversial threads. I just stop reading them when they get too far off-topic. But, Gareth makes a great point above. +1

[Flaxorca]

I opt to simply not read nor react to political topics... IMHO this is not the place for it and it usually tends to end in bans, locked threads and angry or annoyed people.

And as gse123 puts it... this is the place for shaving banter!

[gse123]

The trouble with political discussions is that it is personal viewpoint vs. personal viewpoint, leading to aggrivated banter as people get more and more upset that others are not agreeing with their personal take on things.

[TimmyBoston]

I opt to simply not read nor react to political topics... IMHO this is not the place for it and it usually tends to end in bans, locked threads and angry or annoyed people.

And as gse123 puts it... this is the place for shaving banter!

Which is why I think a specialized new forum would be so great, because you can read the Barbershop freely and not worry about politics! :biggrin:

Also, I don't want people to misinterpret, I'm not saying we shouldn't have any political threads, but I feel that the board would be best served to keep controversial topics in their own forum. Badger and Blade is such a great place not only because of the great shaving banter, but because of the great people. I feel this change could make the board even better and more efficent.

[Chase-p]

I, for one, would love to see that.

[minstrel]

Maybe a forum for the top three "disagreement topics": Politics, religion and firearms? One I could shun like the Plague. :biggrin:

And it could have the subheading: "All ye who enter, abandon hope"...

[Mama Bear]

Maybe a forum for the top three "disagreement topics": Politics, religion and firearms? One I could shun like the Plague. :biggrin:

And it could have the subheading: "All ye who enter, abandon hope"...


:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Straight Arrow]

Badger & Blade has demonstrated that it can be a civilized discussion board for any and all topics. Of course certain topics generate heated discussions but I believe there is room here for the expression of opinions including the occasional fringe lunatic opinion. I don't think these boiler-pot topics need to be segregated into their own forum. Leave them in the Barber Shop. I've never walked into a real barber shop and seen a sign on the wall reading "Controversial Subject Matter To Be Discussed In Back Room Only".

[F16WarBird]

Q: How many forum members does it takes to change a light bulb?


1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs
1 to move it to the Lighting section
2 to argue then move it to the Electricals section
7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs
5 to flame the spell checkers
3 to correct spelling/grammar flames
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid
3 standards zealots to point out that light bulbs have been deprecated in the LB 2.1 spec
1 to call upon everybody to ignore this deprecation
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp"
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct
19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum
11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum
36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty
7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs
4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's
3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group
13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"
5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"
13 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs"
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.

[hyperwarp]

some people have to intrude their Politics into everything, including for crying-out-loud a Shave Forum. Self-Righteousness??? Joe Goebbel's complex ???

There must be a million Political Boards/Forums & only a hand-full of Shaving Forums.

Politics & Religion produce only rancor & IMHO have NO PLACE in a Gentlemen's Shaving Forum.

It's only going to get worse as the campaign season heightens. LOL...Of course, the campaign season never really ends anymore.

I for one am really tired of All Politics, All The Time. I don't even watch TV news anymore because it's totally degenerated into Propaganda & Spin.
Ol'Joey Goebbels is probably laughing & yucking it up in Hell real good.

Too bad all the Reporters (whom I respect) have been pushed out & replaced
by "Journalists" whose mind's were honed by mainly lefty Professor's to push
and agenda & not the facts.

I for one usually hardly ever peruse the General Forum because it's basically
a non-shaving mindfield.

Just MHO....:sleep:

[ada8356]

Amen Tim.

There are a few members here who seems to 'love' the political discussion and just can't help themselves.

There are plenty of places on the 'net where you can go to get whatever political discussion you want. This is a friendly shaving forum and threads that never end don't contribute.

My last attempt to complain about a topic that had lived long past it's useful life was greeted with this gem (which is pretty indicative of the thought processes of the type of folks that can't keep politics to themselves):

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?p=279683&postcount=142

[Patrick D]

Isn't the chat room available most of the time? Why not argue in 'real time? If the discussions get heated enough, we could sell tickets with the proceeds going to B&B as a means of support.

Solving the worlds problems can also be handled through the use of PM's.

[Slant-Fan]

The hell with politics ! Lets argue about RELIGION :eek:

[ouch]

The hell with politics ! Lets argue about RELIGION :eek:

My god can beat up your god. :lol:

[Mottern Man]

My god can beat up your god. :lol:

Yes, but Jesus can't play rugby.

[Dennis]

What politics? I don't really read the Barbershop. Keeps things simple for me.

Dennis

[ada8356]

What politics? I don't really read the Barbershop. Keeps things simple for me.

Dennis

That's true, but you really can't help but see the thread titles on the home page... even if you don't read the thread.

[minstrel]

Same thing if you list all "new posts".

Maybe there ought to be a function to ignore forums as well as individual users in the user control panel? Add the Barbershop forum to your ignore list and posts there won't show up for you in the "new posts" list, nor on the home page?

[Dennis]

My default bookmark for B&B is the forum page. When I get to that page, I double click the icon next to the Hall of Fame and the Barbershop then click New Posts. Thus, I don't see those posts.

Dennis

[F16WarBird]

Is this an ongoing issue or was this sparked by the video I had the nerve to post?

[Austin]

It's an ongoing issue.

BTW, great video.

[mozart]

My default bookmark for B&B is the forum page. When I get to that page, I double click the icon next to the Hall of Fame and the Barbershop then click New Posts. Thus, I don't see those posts.

Dennis

This does work somewhat, but it is an awkward solution. For example, another double-click does not mark the posts as unread, so it is difficult to include a sub-forum again. Also, one has to do this every time one wants to read new posts, which is very cumbersome. A better solution would be to provide a mechanism that would allow users to completely prevent posts from certain sub-forums to show up in the "New Posts" list. I have asked for this in the past, but it wasn't deemed a necessary thing to do. If more people would be interested in such mechanisms, we could probably get it done, and all the complaining would go away.

Best - MM

[scoopster]

Which is why I think a specialized new forum would be so great, because you can read the Barbershop freely and not worry about politics! :biggrin:

Also, I don't want people to misinterpret, I'm not saying we shouldn't have any political threads, but I feel that the board would be best served to keep controversial topics in their own forum. Badger and Blade is such a great place not only because of the great shaving banter, but because of the great people. I feel this change could make the board even better and more efficent.
I agree our virtual Barbershop is where everybody should be able to talk about anything - just like the badger, er, brick & mortar shops.

My first thought is that it might be worth considering a sub-forum (Like Razors has Safety & Straight) for "politics" under the Barbershop and that in that forum it would be expected that discussions are:

1. political
2. because of 1. going to heat up a little more
My immediately following thought is that having a forum like this is going to be a real hassle for the Mods to handle. Letting the topics heat up a little (or perhaps even not at all) is a fine line to moderate and I think there will be a lot of passion, angst, and terminated threads. Worse yet we could have people who get turned off of, or kicked off of, B&B and its primary purpose - shaving.

So I guess that doesn't help too much. Good luck; this is a tough call. I'm back the the Razor, SOTD, Cream/Soap, Aftershaves and Buy/Sell/Trade forums which is why I generally come to B&B.

[scoopster]

Which is why I think a specialized new forum would be so great, because you can read the Barbershop freely and not worry about politics! :biggrin:

Also, I don't want people to misinterpret, I'm not saying we shouldn't have any political threads, but I feel that the board would be best served to keep controversial topics in their own forum. Badger and Blade is such a great place not only because of the great shaving banter, but because of the great people. I feel this change could make the board even better and more efficent.
I agree our virtual Barbershop is where everybody should be able to talk about anything - just like the badger, er, brick & mortar shops.

My first thought was that it might be worth considering a sub-forum (Like Razors has Safety & Straight) for "politics" under the Barbershop and that in that forum it would be expected that discussions are:

1. political
2. because of 1. going to heat up a little more
My second thought was that having a forum like this is going to be a real hassle for the Mods to handle. Letting the topics heat up a little (or perhaps even not at all) is a fine line to moderate and I think there will be a lot of passion, angst, and terminated threads. Worse case, we could have people who get turned off of, or kicked out of, B&B and its primary purpose - shaving.

So I guess that doesn't help too much. Good luck; this is a tough call. I'm back the the Razor, SOTD, Cream/Soap, Aftershaves and Buy/Sell/Trade forums which is why I generally come to B&B.

[castlecraver]

I can think of several other forums that I belong to that have a special sub-forum for debate threads. Interestingly, however, I don't often post in them. Why? I'm not sure -- it probably has more to do with the fact that the member makeup of those forums and that this particular forum is composed overwhelmingly of gentlemen who I respect. You guys are the kind of people I enjoy having debates with -- not even because my initial perception (which was shown to be incorrect if the poll threads are to be believed) was that the members in general leaned to the right, but because so many of the older members are the kind of gentlemen I strive to be like, with strong, well-intentioned opinions, and so many of the guys who are closer to my age have their heads on straighter than 99% of the ones I know in real life.

Where can you go nowadays for that kind of discourse? Surely there are other forums for it, but walk into any small gentleman's barber shop, tavern, or fraternal gathering place and you're likely to encounter a discussion on the news of the day. Just as surely, there's going to be differing opinions. These discussions might even diverge down an unintended path, and it's unlikely the proprietor would chastise the patrons for it. I understand that in times past, gentlemen were more likely to keep politically charged opinions under their hat, but I think those times have gone the way of the morning paper.

For what its worth, I realize I may be part of the problem. And to anyone I've offended, I apologize. And to anyone to whom I came off unnecessarily argumentative, likewise. I want to let you know that I do respect everyone's opinions, and I'll do what I can in the future to keep my end of the more delicate threads from becoming battle zones.

But... I think it's still important to allow this kind of debate here, because in general, the kind of discussion from so many very intelligent and reasoned men (& women) would be difficult to find elsewhere.

So far as a special forum... I don't know. I'd worry some members (possibly myself included) might set up camp in there which would most decidedly be a bad thing. I hang around the Barbershop too much as it is, but that's just because I'm in a bit of a wetshaving rut (& a strict budget!). I think it definitely adds to the quality of the discussion, as well as the light mood, to have a serious talk on Iraq (or whatever) next to a whimsical thread about wisdom teeth. One of the things I really like is being able to disagree up and down with another member, and then joke with the same guy in the next thread. That, I think, could be a defining element of gentlemanly discourse.

[Mottern Man]

1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.


That would be my job.

BTW that was a great post (I know I am number 17 too say that.)

[ScottS]

The trouble with political discussions is that it is personal viewpoint vs. personal viewpoint, leading to aggrivated banter as people get more and more upset that others are not agreeing with their personal take on things.

That's been pretty rare.

[Roman414]

...and my brother would argue that they should not be called "light bulbs" but "dark suckers". He says there is no such thing as light, it is just the absence of darkness.

[TimmyBoston]

Is this an ongoing issue or was this sparked by the video I had the nerve to post?

Ongoing issue. I've had this complaint for quite a while now.

[Zeni]

Castle Craver's post is exactly how I feel.

I'm terribly sorry if I offended anyone. I feel so sad everytime I hear about the war, when all those people have died on either side.

[F16WarBird]

I just posted a new video.

Let's go fight about it. :tongue:

[DirtyDave]

Q: How many forum members does it takes to change a light bulb?


1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs
1 to move it to the Lighting section
2 to argue then move it to the Electricals section
7 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs
5 to flame the spell checkers
3 to correct spelling/grammar flames
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb" ... another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid
3 standards zealots to point out that light bulbs have been deprecated in the LB 2.1 spec
1 to call upon everybody to ignore this deprecation
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp"
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct
19 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum
11 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant to this forum
36 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty
7 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs
4 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's
3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group
13 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"
5 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"
13 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs"
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again.


:thumbup:

Brilliant!

After the last political discussion I got involved in, I swore it would be the last one here on B&B. I go to a number of political boards and I come here just to get away from it all.

I hope this post does not count as part of a heated political discussion.
If so, I swear it will be the last one and I really mean it this time.

[echophonic]

Seriously, I've had these discussions in a barber shop proper. That's why it's a sub-forum. If you don't like it, don't read it! They've been for the most part extremely civil so I don't see what the problem is.

In the almighty and sagely words of their High Priestess's Salt n' Peppa:

Let's tell it how it is, and how it could be
How it was, and of course, how it should be
Those who think it's dirty have a choice
Pick up the needle, press pause, or turn the radio off

[adildhanani]

I can think of several other forums that I belong to that have a special sub-forum for debate threads. Interestingly, however, I don't often post in them. Why? I'm not sure -- it probably has more to do with the fact that the member makeup of those forums and that this particular forum is composed overwhelmingly of gentlemen who I respect. You guys are the kind of people I enjoy having debates with -- not even because my initial perception (which was shown to be incorrect if the poll threads are to be believed) was that the members in general leaned to the right, but because so many of the older members are the kind of gentlemen I strive to be like, with strong, well-intentioned opinions, and so many of the guys who are closer to my age have their heads on straighter than 99% of the ones I know in real life.

Where can you go nowadays for that kind of discourse? Surely there are other forums for it, but walk into any small gentleman's barber shop, tavern, or fraternal gathering place and you're likely to encounter a discussion on the news of the day. Just as surely, there's going to be differing opinions. These discussions might even diverge down an unintended path, and it's unlikely the proprietor would chastise the patrons for it. I understand that in times past, gentlemen were more likely to keep politically charged opinions under their hat, but I think those times have gone the way of the morning paper.

For what its worth, I realize I may be part of the problem. And to anyone I've offended, I apologize. And to anyone to whom I came off unnecessarily argumentative, likewise. I want to let you know that I do respect everyone's opinions, and I'll do what I can in the future to keep my end of the more delicate threads from becoming battle zones.

But... I think it's still important to allow this kind of debate here, because in general, the kind of discussion from so many very intelligent and reasoned men (& women) would be difficult to find elsewhere.

So far as a special forum... I don't know. I'd worry some members (possibly myself included) might set up camp in there which would most decidedly be a bad thing. I hang around the Barbershop too much as it is, but that's just because I'm in a bit of a wetshaving rut (& a strict budget!). I think it definitely adds to the quality of the discussion, as well as the light mood, to have a serious talk on Iraq (or whatever) next to a whimsical thread about wisdom teeth. One of the things I really like is being able to disagree up and down with another member, and then joke with the same guy in the next thread. That, I think, could be a defining element of gentlemanly discourse.

I completely agree.

[rtaylor61]

You may notice that the moderators and administrators haven't really lined up to voice opinions on this. This is a topic that comes up a lot in the moderators forum. And while the discussion of totally banning certain topics has come up, it is something we don't totally agree on.

A few of the us (meaning moderators) have been here since the beginning, and have been participating on shaving forums for much longer than most of you. Personally, I've been a moderator at two forums for 2 years now. And the one thing that is common to the majority of political threads is this:

They turn into pissing matches. Smack down pissing matches. And while they may start out innocently, and there may be some great discussion and valid points made, they generally turn into arguments that causes members to have hard feelings towards each other. They become counter productive to the atmosphere that we try and want to maintain here. I believe that as moderators, we rule with "no fist", meaning that we let things ride as long as possible. Loose reins. Most often we discuss things when we feel action is needed, and then act. Or don't act. But there are also times when, based on past experience, we make decisions to act immediately, and we do what we feel is best for B&B. That is our goal, doing what is best for B&B.

One other thing to remember. We are all guests of the owners of this forum. This is their house. Not mine. Not yours. If you want to post a thread that you feel is borderline, submit it via pm to at least 3 moderators so that it can be discussed in a timely manner (we aren't all here 24/7).

It would be great if any and all topics could be discussed with no problems. Unfortunately, they can't.

Randy

[Flaxorca]

snip...
They turn into pissing matches. Smack down pissing matches. And while they may start out innocently, and there may be some great discussion and valid points made, they generally turn into arguments that causes members to have hard feelings towards each other. They become counter productive to the atmosphere that we try and want to maintain here. ...snip

This is my experience as well... I would like to add though that IMHO the moderators on this forum are doing an excellent job. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[TimmyBoston]

the discussion of totally banning certain topics has come up, it is something we don't totally agree on.

Randy

Your mention of banning topics totally reminded me, (this is a little off topic) but several members of my family own a few small bars around the country, and if you talk politics or religion in any of them, they first buy you shot and tell you shut it, if you keep it up a very large man will escort you out, possibly with a baseball bat. Though, it does minimize arguments in the bar.

[castlecraver]

Your mention of banning topics totally reminded me, (this is a little off topic) but several members of my family own a few small bars around the country, and if you talk politics or religion in any of them, they first buy you shot and tell you shut it, if you keep it up a very large man will escort you out, possibly with a baseball bat. Though, it does minimize arguments in the bar.

Tim: PM me with the names of your family's bars. Always good to know where a free shot can be had. :wink:

[TimmyBoston]

Tim: PM me with the names of your family's bars. Always good to know where a free shot can be had. :wink:

The downside is though sometimes they skip the shot go straight for the Louisville Slugger. :w00t:

[Holton181]

So far as a special forum... I don't know. I'd worry some members (possibly myself included) might set up camp in there which would most decidedly be a bad thing. I hang around the Barbershop too much as it is, but that's just because I'm in a bit of a wetshaving rut (& a strict budget!). I think it definitely adds to the quality of the discussion, as well as the light mood, to have a serious talk on Iraq (or whatever) next to a whimsical thread about wisdom teeth. One of the things I really like is being able to disagree up and down with another member, and then joke with the same guy in the next thread. That, I think, could be a defining element of gentlemanly discourse.
When I go to the barbershop, I talk about current events, sports, politics, and so on. My virtual barbershop should be the same. When someone talks about something I don't want to talk about, I stop listening, start a different topic with others, and and it goes away. Same thing here. I don't respond to every thread, nor do I read them.