Shaving Mall Etiquette

[TimmyBoston]

Every once in a while we get into debates in a particular Buy/Sell/Trade thread over pricing. Someone will chime in a price is too high, etc. While I don't want to see anyone cheated here at B&B, I find it poor form for this to be handled in public, a much more diplomatic and appropriate way of handing this is via PM, on occasion errors are made and the member should not be embarrassed because of a typo or worse if the complaining member is mistaken they make the thread creater look like a jerk when they are in the right. I would there to be a statement put out of this and any other etiquette statements appropriate.

Thanks!

[papasmurf]

Every once in a while we get into debates in a particular Buy/Sell/Trade thread over pricing. Someone will chime in a price is too high, etc. While I don't want to see anyone cheated here at B&B, I find it poor form for this to be handled in public, a much more diplomatic and appropriate way of handing this is via PM, on occasion errors are made and the member should not be embarrassed because of a typo or worse if the complaining member is mistaken they make the thread creater look like a jerk when they are in the right. I would there to be a statement put out of this and any other etiquette statements appropriate.

Thanks!

+1 the seller makes his price if there is a buyer that does not mind paying it there is no reason for some one else to say any thing . IF you happened to think the price is to much simply DO NOT buy the item .

Nick

[Boogie]

I totally agree with this. I had a recent item up for sale, for what I thought was a good price. One of the posts to my thread was someone telling me that the same product could be bought from some other site for about the same price, which it couldn’t have been because shipping would apply on that item, and my price included shipping. Having this pointed out to me in a private message would have been much more appropriate as opposed to it being posed in the thread and making it sound as if I was purposely trying to rip someone off. Now I realize that the poster probably did not intend to suggest that I was trying to rip someone off, but having it posted in the thread sure could convey that message to anyone else that happen to briefly glance at a buy/sell/trade thread.

[android]

Another etiquette idea would be about PM's and posting that you have sent a pm. Too often people PM an interest in the item, but don't post that they have sent a pm. Another person comes along (like me), gets excited about the item, pm's the person, posts, and then finds out that a sale is already pending.

Suggestion:

"If you are interested in an item, first make a posting that states that, and says PM sent. Eg. "I want to buy your brush, PM sent."

If you have a question, but are not interested in buying the item, either post your question, or pm the person the question, but DO NOT post "PM sent."

If you have a question, and the answer will determine your interest in buying the item, then state that in the posting, and send a pm. EG. "If this brush is the silvertip model, then I would like to buy it, PM sent."

These suggestions would make for a better buying and selling experience. I often find people post "PM sent" and then send me a purely informational question, with no interest in buying the item. This scares off other buyers.

[boboakalfb]

Another etiquette idea would be about PM's and posting that you have sent a pm. Too often people PM an interest in the item, but don't post that they have sent a pm. Another person comes along (like me), gets excited about the item, pm's the person, posts, and then finds out that a sale is already pending.

Suggestion:

"If you are interested in an item, first make a posting that states that, and says PM sent. Eg. "I want to buy your brush, PM sent."

If you have a question, but are not interested in buying the item, either post your question, or pm the person the question, but DO NOT post "PM sent."

If you have a question, and the answer will determine your interest in buying the item, then state that in the posting, and send a pm. EG. "If this brush is the silvertip model, then I would like to buy it, PM sent."

These suggestions would make for a better buying and selling experience. I often find people post "PM sent" and then send me a purely informational question, with no interest in buying the item. This scares off other buyers.

I think if someone posts something for sale and you are interested then pm them. I don't quite understand why you have to post a message in the thread with your questions and intentions. If someone pms them first and they purchase the item, just move on. If you see pm sent but it isn't reflecting as sold yet then just send the member a pm. No big deal, I guess I don't understand what the issue is.

[texasPI]

I think if someone posts something for sale and you are interested then pm them. I don't quite understand why you have to post a message in the thread with your questions and intentions. If someone pms them first and they purchase the item, just move on. If you see pm sent but it isn't reflecting as sold yet then just send the member a pm. No big deal, I guess I don't understand what the issue is.

I don't see what the issue is either. You waste valuable time posting a "PM sent" message in which time someone could already PM the seller and scoop you.:smile:

[Austin]

I think if someone posts something for sale and you are interested then pm them. I don't quite understand why you have to post a message in the thread with your questions and intentions. If someone pms them first and they purchase the item, just move on. If you see pm sent but it isn't reflecting as sold yet then just send the member a pm. No big deal, I guess I don't understand what the issue is.

I usually don't post "pm sent" when I am interested in an item. If the seller pm's back that the item is sold or pending I just move on.

[Xert]

Every once in a while we get into debates in a particular Buy/Sell/Trade thread over pricing. Someone will chime in a price is too high, etc. While I don't want to see anyone cheated here at B&B, I find it poor form for this to be handled in public, a much more diplomatic and appropriate way of handing this is via PM, on occasion errors are made and the member should not be embarrassed because of a typo or worse if the complaining member is mistaken they make the thread creater look like a jerk when they are in the right. I would there to be a statement put out of this and any other etiquette statements appropriate.

Thanks!
I'm not so sure that this should be a hard rule, although it certainly is good practice most of the time. In exceptional cases, however, a dishonorable seller might attempt to charge an unfair price, and I see no reason to prevent the other B&B members from crying shame if that ever occurs.

+1 the seller makes his price if there is a buyer that does not mind paying it there is no reason for some one else to say any thing . IF you happened to think the price is to much simply DO NOT buy the item .

Nick
I could not disagree more. A seller who makes his money based upon the lack of knowledge of his buyer is a dishonest cheat who preys upon the ignorance of others.

[Doc4]

On the 'PM Sent' issue, I don't think it's needed to make that post. At best, it's a hollow 'bump' that clogs up the forum's first page. Also, some people might want to buy an item without that publicity. And if there is a "pm sent' post, that tends to stifle further interest ... and the original PM'er may back out and the seller has lost his publicity!

As for the original issue (thread officially un-hijacked) of price-comment posts, I'm torn between both sides. Especially with so many n00bs here (and I'm maybe not really beyond that description myself sometimes :lol: ) we can need some help as to what is and is not a fair price. Now, if it's an obvious typo, then sure, a PM to the vendor "did you add an extra zero?" might be best. But if someone's price is really out of whack, then maybe a comment-post isn't such a bad thing. "You can get a tub of TOBS cream from QED for $11, so maybe $30 for a half-used tub is not a good deal".

Unless it's old-style avocado! :lol:

But I certainly don't want self-appointed Price Police posting away that someone is a few dollars high.

[TimmyBoston]

I'm not so sure that this should be a hard rule, although it certainly is good practice most of the time. In exceptional cases, however, a dishonorable seller might attempt to charge an unfair price, and I see no reason to prevent the other B&B members from crying shame if that ever occurs.



There are always exceptions, but one I whole I feel that we owe it to each other to first handle things with PMs. It's far more diginfied and respectful. If that doesn't work, contact a mod if necessary.

[Jim]

I usually don't post "pm sent" when I am interested in an item. If the seller Pm's back that the item is sold or pending I just move on.

I think many great points have been made here and there is value in each of them, the old saw applys "Thats what makes a horse race". I do not add a PM sent to the post as the person either is on line and gets the pm or will when they log back on.

I have always felt that one of our strengths as a community is that we watch each others backs, The golden rule as it were.

:badger:

[Patrick D]

I go ahead and post a PM sent message only to establish a time signature in case of mulitple offers on the same item and I do so right after my PM is sent. Date and time on both marks my place, sort of like a dog marking territory, lol!

I also close out the deal by posting that I have received the item and that the transaction was completed on both sides. I also want to say that the mall is one of the greatest DE store and has been responsible for almost all of my best brush purchases and I haven't been stung or disappointed yet!

[TimmyBoston]

Just to be clear, I wasn't complaining about the "PM Sent" messages, but every once in a while we see a rude comment put on someone's thread and that really makes me unhappy, that's what I'm referring to.

[Xert]

There are always exceptions, but one I whole I feel that we owe it to each other to first handle things with PMs. It's far more diginfied and respectful. If that doesn't work, contact a mod if necessary.

I'm with you 100% on the first half, but I don't see the need for requiring a mod to step in, particularly since B&B's guidelines make clear that sales are private transactions. While a member might comment on an unfair price, for a mod to do so (as a mod) would seem to imply that B&B is taking on some responsibility to ensure fairness in the transaction.

[Jim]

Just to be clear, I wasn't complaining about the "PM Sent" messages, but every once in a while we see a rude comment put on someone's thread and that really makes me unhappy, that's what I'm referring to.

What happened in your watch thread is a good example of the community watching out for each other, That stupid comment that was made was refuted and rejected by quite a few of the men as soon as it went up.

Its all good. :badger:

[Jim]

I'm with you 100% on the first half, but I don't see the need for requiring a mod to step in, particularly since B&B's guidelines make clear that sales are private transactions. While a member might comment on an unfair price, for a mod to do so (as a mod) would seem to imply that B&B is taking on some responsibility to ensure fairness in the transaction.

While what you say is accurate no one is going to let the B&B become a platform for disingenuous activity or outright deception. The TOU requires a level of honesty,respect and integrity.

[papasmurf]

I could not disagree more. A seller who makes his money based upon the lack of knowledge of his buyer is a dishonest cheat who preys upon the ignorance of others.


It is your job as the buyer to shop around and know what some thing is worth if you think the item is over priced just move on . if one person over pays for an item it has nothing to do with you ... just about every one on this forum knows what each razor goes for if you over paid that is your problem .


if milk costs 4.29 a gallon and the local deli sells it for $5 you do not need to buyy it from them it does not mean that he is a cheat just that his over head is much higher then the next guys.

that is my $.02 on the issue


Nick

[rtaylor61]

I believe that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Anytime I see an item I believe is overpriced, I generally send a pm to the seller that includes proof to back up my opinion. If someone is selling a slightly used razor for the same price that it can be purchased new elsewhere, but it includes shipping, that my be a bargain to someone. I believe that things should be handled by pm. No different than when someone makes a purchase and is not totally satisfied with that purchase. It should be handled by pm. At least in the beginning.

Randy

[TimmyBoston]

I believe that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Anytime I see an item I believe is overpriced, I generally send a pm to the seller that includes proof to back up my opinion. If someone is selling a slightly used razor for the same price that it can be purchased new elsewhere, but it includes shipping, that my be a bargain to someone. I believe that things should be handled by pm. No different than when someone makes a purchase and is not totally satisfied with that purchase. It should be handled by pm. At least in the beginning.

Randy

Exactly as I belive things should be handled

[Xert]

While what you say is accurate no one is going to let the B&B become a platform for disingenuous activity or outright deception. The TOU requires a level of honesty,respect and integrity.

While the record of the moderators here speaks for itself, I'm always glad to hear it reinforced. Thanks, Jim.


It is your job as the buyer to shop around and know what some thing is worth if you think the item is over priced just move on . if one person over pays for an item it has nothing to do with you ... just about every one on this forum knows what each razor goes for if you over paid that is your problem .


if milk costs 4.29 a gallon and the local deli sells it for $5 you do not need to buyy it from them it does not mean that he is a cheat just that his over head is much higher then the next guys.

that is my $.02 on the issue


Nick
So the problem with pointing out an unreasonably high price is that it doesn't punish the buyer who didn't do his research? If someone overpays for an item and I had the opportunity to prevent them from being ripped off, then it very much has to do with me, for I have allowed them to be defrauded by an opportunist. I have no objection to something being priced higher because of value added (eg. the convenience of picking up my milk locally in a pinch), whether due to previous taxes, import duties, overseas shipping or other such things, but if a seller is intentionally attempting to pass a common product off for more than it's worth they're nothing more than a con man.

$.02

[guenron]

Stephen (Xert),
When it comes to mores and socially responsible behavior, UNFORTUNATELY, many of the members of this family (after all every family has its idiot children) appear to be lacking. The wail of caveat emptor rings hollow when we have a forum environment that alleges to be friendly and geared to helping those new to wet shaving on the one hand and seemingly wishes to provide a fruitful environment to exploit that ignorance by the predators on the other. Let us not talk in hypotheticals.. You will find the same people lauding the laissez faire approach here are also those casting stones at the "Better than New" BS of other venues and the unscrupulous vendors threads elsewhere. The absence of integrity and character exhibited by many never fail to amaze me. I was absolutely astonished when the totally unjustifiable and equally unscrupulous behavior of one of the favored and praised vendors was not only overlooked, but actually accepted as "that's business." Gentleman is merely an appellation to far too many.

[Xert]

The family metaphor is a good one, Ron. One of the things I really appreciate about B&B is the incredible sense of community that exists here, and I would hate to have a new member welcomed by being ripped off. If the opportunity for such ever arose, I would have no problem with stepping in to publicly chastise such a seller (although Tim's quite right about the appropriateness of PMing the seller first, in case of a simple error or misunderstanding which could easily be cleared up by a gentleman).

[paydepst]

Regarding pm'ming someone about price I am in complete agreement about that. I have personal experience (not here) to back me up on how unpleasant a thing like that can become.

Regarding the pricing matter, I'm not sure that I agree with you completely Stephen. Sometimes a bloke asks a high price for a thing because it's worth that to him OR he has to have that much out of it. Then there are those cases where the seller doesn't really want to sell but will if the item will fetch that price. So it isn't necessarily an unscrupulous or avaricious seller. I lean more towards Nick's argument myself when it comes to shopping. As in anything caveat emptor applies and you are first accountable to yourself as a consumer. I'm not saying that some of your points are without merit and I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

[papasmurf]

Regarding pm'ming someone about price I am in complete agreement about that. I have personal experience (not here) to back me up on how unpleasant a thing like that can become.

Regarding the pricing matter, I'm not sure that I agree with you completely Stephen. Sometimes a bloke asks a high price for a thing because it's worth that to him OR he has to have that much out of it. Then there are those cases where the seller doesn't really want to sell but will if the item will fetch that price. So it isn't necessarily an unscrupulous or avaricious seller. I lean more towards Nick's argument myself when it comes to shopping. As in anything caveat emptor applies and you are first accountable to yourself as a consumer. I'm not saying that some of your points are without merit and I hope you can see where i'm coming from.


Mark I am so glad you said this I Am not trying to sound like the bad guy I just was not able to express what I meant in the right fashion you basically hit the nail on the head here .

[ouch]

Sorry to be joining in so late. I think the tone of this thread should be a model for all threads.:thumbup1:


Considering the size to which the mall has grown, the number of complaints are few and far between. I think this has far more to do with having a membership that knows how (as Alex DeLarge would say) to comport themselves publicwise than having in place any set of rules of expected behavior.

I've long maintained that communism is the notion that an item is worth anything other than what someone will pay for it. Caveat emptor is the rule here, and these are all ultimately transactions between two willing parties. Having said that, I think that what makes this site so great is the collective sensibility of the membership. So I don't find it at all surprising to see members speaking out when they see something that smells fishy, nor would I want them to keep silent.

Sellers here aren't paying for advertising, they're posting their wares in a public forum for all to see. Having to endure a properly presented word or two may be considered part of the pricetag, if it ensures that the post has passed the muster of a thousand eagle eyed guardians. As long as we keep things civil and maintain our expected standards of propriety, a bit of leeway isn't a bad thing.



Now on to more important business. For sale- 1/2 tub Taylor's avocado, old formula. $300 plus shipping.

[guenron]

Sorry to be joining in so late. I think the tone of this thread should be a model for all threads.:thumbup1:


Considering the size to which the mall has grown, the number of complaints are few and far between. I think this has far more to do with having a membership that knows how (as Alex DeLarge would say) to comport themselves publicwise than having in place any set of rules of expected behavior.

I've long maintained that communism is the notion that an item is worth anything other than what someone will pay for it. Caveat emptor is the rule here, and these are all ultimately transactions between two willing parties. Having said that, I think that what makes this site so great is the collective sensibility of the membership. So I don't find it at all surprising to see members speaking out when they see something that smells fishy, nor would I want them to keep silent.

Sellers here aren't paying for advertising, they're posting their wares in a public forum for all to see. Having to endure a properly presented word or two may be considered part of the pricetag, if it ensures that the post has passed the muster of a thousand eagle eyed guardians. As long as we keep things civil and maintain our expected standards of propriety, a bit of leeway isn't a bad thing.



Now on to more important business. For sale- 1/2 tub Taylor's avocado, old formula. $300 plus shipping.

I presume it is Better than New?

[papasmurf]

Now on to more important business. For sale- 1/2 tub Taylor's avocado, old formula. $300 plus shipping.



YGPM :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ouch]

I presume it is Better than New?

In the rare and atypical case of the old formula Taylor avocado, I think I'll get a lot of support if I claim that "old is better than new". :lol:

[ouch]

YGPM :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry. Someone beat you to it. As you can see, they didn't leave a "PM sent" post. :biggrin:

[krawlx]

My opinions on this are limited as I'm new to the B&B community, and have yet to acquire anything through the Buy/Sell/Trade forum. However, one thing I can attest to is that I would feel completely comfortable doing so. That is testament to the fact that the members of the community look out for one another. It's for exactly that reason I enjoy this community so much, and thanks to those who keep it this way by looking out for the newcomers. Cheers.

[Xert]

Regarding pm'ming someone about price I am in complete agreement about that. I have personal experience (not here) to back me up on how unpleasant a thing like that can become.

Regarding the pricing matter, I'm not sure that I agree with you completely Stephen. Sometimes a bloke asks a high price for a thing because it's worth that to him OR he has to have that much out of it. Then there are those cases where the seller doesn't really want to sell but will if the item will fetch that price. So it isn't necessarily an unscrupulous or avaricious seller. I lean more towards Nick's argument myself when it comes to shopping. As in anything caveat emptor applies and you are first accountable to yourself as a consumer. I'm not saying that some of your points are without merit and I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

Well, you'll notice that I was careful to qualify my point above to be about "common products". If someone was to produce the infamous old Taylor's Avocado for $300 a half pot, then it might very well be a fair price since it's the only one on the market. In those sorts of cases there's a great deal of ambiguity for what something is truly worth. If, in such a situation, a fellow prices something based upon what it's worth to him, then that would certainly seem a reasonable place to start. If, however, he decides that -- since he likes Taylors twice as much as T&H -- he's going to sell a tub of the newer Taylor's for $30, then I believe that's an entirely different case. But I think up to this point we're pretty much in agreement.

Where I do disagree is in the notion of "having to get that much out of it" justifying an unfair price -- if your finances are that strained then you shouldn't be using anything more than Williams and a boar brush anyway. Financial need never justifies ripping another member of the community off, even if it was out of their own lack of research.


Mark I am so glad you said this I Am not trying to sound like the bad guy I just was not able to express what I meant in the right fashion you basically hit the nail on the head here .

Just to keep things clear, I in no way think of you as "the bad guy" or any such thing. I think your opinion on the subject is very much wrong, but I don't at all conclude that you must therefore me a bad fellow.

[paydepst]

Where I do disagree is in the notion of "having to get that much out of it" justifying an unfair price -- if your finances are that strained then you shouldn't be using anything more than Williams and a boar brush anyway. Financial need never justifies ripping another member of the community off, even if it was out of their own lack of research.

.

Stephen, I really don't think you and I are that far apart even on this point. Sometimes when you have to have that much out of it, it isn't necessarily because your finances are strained but quite simply a case of "I've got this much in it and in order to sell it I've got to get this out of it" and sometimes there will be the other fellow out there willing to pay it in defiance of all notions of real or perceived value in the market at large. I've witnessed this many a time in the field of comic book collecting particularly with respect to titles whose values are still fairly fluid and haven't stabilised.
Now as far as asking a high price in order to take advantage of or have one over on another person (which I think is what you are referring to) you are indisputably correct in that there is never a good reason to do that. That's just rank dishonesty and should never be tolerated. I don't think there's a chap here who will argue that point.

My main concern is whether or not you are going to watch Day 7 this season! :biggrin:

[Xert]

Stephen, I really don't think you and I are that far apart even on this point. Sometimes when you have to have that much out of it, it isn't necessarily because your finances are strained but quite simply a case of "I've got this much in it and in order to sell it I've got to get this out of it" and sometimes there will be the other fellow out there willing to pay it in defiance of all notions of real or perceived value in the market at large. I've witnessed this many a time in the field of comic book collecting particularly with respect to titles whose values are still fairly fluid and haven't stabilised.
Now as far as asking a high price in order to take advantage of or have one over on another person (which I think is what you are referring to) you are indisputably correct in that there is never a good reason to do that. That's just rank dishonesty and should never be tolerated. I don't think there's a chap here who will argue that point.

My main concern is whether or not you are going to watch Day 7 this season! :biggrin:

:thumbup1: Although I still think that I would be obligated to post advising any potential buyer if that were the case (after of course first communicating with the seller via PM).

As for the important matter at hand, it's going to take something awfully spectacular to win me back after the mess that Day 6 became...

[paydepst]

:thumbup1: Although I still think that I would be obligated to post advising any potential buyer if that were the case (after of course first communicating with the seller via PM).

As for the important matter at hand, it's going to take something awfully spectacular to win me back after the mess that Day 6 became...

Got ya! :smile:

As for the weightier topic in this discussion, you might want to watch the first few episodes or Jack might kneecap you! :eek:

[rtaylor61]

If I'm in the B/S/T forum, I'm looking for a "bargain". I do my homework and research. Everything listed there is not a bargain. And I don't comment on what someone is selling an item for. Something is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. If someone fails to research an item, and, IMO, overpays for an item, yet is still happy with it, then it is a good deal. To them. I believe that Rolex watches are way overpriced. Others don't, and buy them. I'm happy with my Seiko, Tourneaus and Movado. It is all opinion.

Randy

[Doc4]

Sorry. Someone beat you to it. As you can see, they didn't leave a "PM sent" post. :biggrin:

Oh, the old avocado arrived yesterday. Thanks; worth every penny! (But most of what I sent you weren't pennies ... :blink: )