Help with a Fountain Pen/Paper issue

[jwharding5]

Hi everyone,

Wondering if some fountain pen experts could help me with something. I purchased a Rhodia webnotebook recently because it was supposed to give good performance with writing with fountain pens (better than the Moleskine notebooks). I also bought some Noodlers bulletproof black ink. Used it in my Retro51 fountain pen.

My question is, why does the ink smudge so much with this ink/paper combination? Even after 30 minutes the ink wasn't dry; if you touch it, it would smear on the page. Granted, the ink wasn't coming through to the other side of the paper, which is what the original reviews said was so good about the Rhodia paper.

I am annoyed at this ink, because I will be using it to take notes in my Rhodia book. I need an ink that will perform well turning the pages fairly quickly... I may want to sell/trade the Noodlers ink for a more conventional non-permanent ink if that would perform better.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Bayamontate]

Noodlers ink is good because it keeps pen works clean but the down side is that it is very thick and viscous so it sits on top of the paper longer than usual. While their black is the best available IMO, its viscosity is a problem especially when you are writing in journals and the like.

[Bayamontate]

P.S.Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo is an ink I would recommend highly. It has great depth and drys very quickly.

[devorenm]

There isn't anything wrong with any of these products - per se but the combination isn't working for you.

The Rhodia paper is very slick - it is wonderful to write on - but it also doesn't absorb ink like a different paper might (for example you moleskin probably didn't smudge but the ink soaked through from the front page half way through the notebook).

I think the easiest thing to do would be to wonder down to your local pen store and buy a different bottle of ink or even a set of carts. I've had good look with waterman on Rhodia pen as well as Diamine.

I've heard wonderful things about the Ironshizuki ink but haven't been able to justify the cost.

[Bayamontate]

Agreed, $28 is pricey for ink. The only reason I bought it was because I wrote my father a letter after his 90th birthday and wanted it to be special, I figured why not.

[Plano]

I have had really good luck with Private Reserve quick dry ink in my Parker 51. Lamy ink in my Safari pen and just tried but hated reg PR in my Montblanc. Going to try out the quick dry in my MB this week end and see what its like. Finding the right ink/pen combo can be a pain in the ass but well worth it in the end

[jwharding5]

I have had really good luck with Private Reserve quick dry ink in my Parker 51. Lamy ink in my Safari pen and just tried but hated reg PR in my Montblanc. Going to try out the quick dry in my MB this week end and see what its like. Finding the right ink/pen combo can be a pain in the ass but well worth it in the end

Thanks everyone for the replies!

This may be a stupid question but is there a difference between the quick dry and regular PR ink? I'll stop down to the pen store to investigate. I need something that won't smudge because I often write pretty quickly in these notebooks and since it is a small notebook I'll be changing the pages quickly too.

[BRuhling]

P.S.Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo is an ink I would recommend highly. It has great depth and drys very quickly.

+1 - All of the iroshizuku inks I've tried have been phenomenal performers!

[maxman]

I'd give Private Reserve a try.
I use it and like it very much.

There are a few people who have the same problem you do.
When I was researching Rhodia pads, it came up here and there.

[Jim]

While I cannot really help you with your issue, I think this is one of the greatest things about FPs, you can hone into the sweet spot on any one of the variables. Who knows the pen,ink, paper combo may be perfect with a finer nib.....or....:001_smile

[LouieGrandie]

+1 on Iroshizuku inks. Another ink to try which is quick drying is Aurora.


Noodlers ink is good because it keeps pen works clean but the down side is that it is very thick and viscous

Correct-A-Mondo on this one. This is why you get a lot of nib creep with Noodler's. I love their Royale but have the same smudge issue.

[Drewser]

I use a Rhodia planner and initially used my pen with Noodler's bullet-proof black ink, and like yourself, found the ink took forever to dry. It's not just that ink- my Staedtler rollerball pen takes about as long to dry. I find that other of Noodler's inks dry much faster- their Walnut, blue-black, and legal lapis, all dry significantly faster than the bullet-proof black. Their Brown #41 ink is somewhere in between.

Also, a drier nib might be something to try as well, since a wetter nib will just put more ink on the paper. If I don't rinse my pen at refill time with the Noodler's black, I find that the ink comes out pretty thick.

[jwharding5]

I use a Rhodia planner and initially used my pen with Noodler's bullet-proof black ink, and like yourself, found the ink took forever to dry. It's not just that ink- my Staedtler rollerball pen takes about as long to dry. I find that other of Noodler's inks dry much faster- their Walnut, blue-black, and legal lapis, all dry significantly faster than the bullet-proof black. Their Brown #41 ink is somewhere in between.

Also, a drier nib might be something to try as well, since a wetter nib will just put more ink on the paper. If I don't rinse my pen at refill time with the Noodler's black, I find that the ink comes out pretty thick.

Did you ever find a solution to the ink taking a long time to dry, even with the rollerball? I had the same problem with my Moleskine notebook. I ended up just using a ballpoint, which defeats the purpose, IMHO, of using fine writing instruments... :blink:

[Gray Wolf]

I find that Parker Quink dries fast, and writes well in my pens. It's just not as elegant as the big names in ink!

[Shane27]

You could try diluting the noodler's a bit too that might help. maybe experiment with like a 90/10 mix or an 80/20 mix of noodler's/water.

[devorenm]

It mainly because moleskin paper is shit for fountain pens - you'll have a very difficult time getting any ink/pen combination to not bleed and feather like crazy. I would go for a Rhodia or Clairfontaine notebook. Quality french made paper for the cost of (or likely less than the cost of) moleskin.

[Rev Rob]

+1 on Iroshizuku inks. Another ink to try which is quick drying is Aurora.



Correct-A-Mondo on this one. This is why you get a lot of nib creep with Noodler's. I love their Royale but have the same smudge issue.


I use both Noodlers and Aurora. The Aurora is a quicker drying ink. I use both the blue and black. I have had good luck with the Noodlers Legal Lapis.

I also agree with the other posts - try a pen with a fine nib.

[Mir]

I use Noodler's inks and Rhodia paper seems to not work well with the ones I have. Clairefontaine paper handles it much better.

Moleskine just plain sucked for any of my fountain pens/inks. Too scratchy, with a lot of feathering. A much cheaper 80gsm pad of notebook paper worked much better.

[Viseguy]

Noodler's Black uses a cellulose-reactive dye that bonds with the cellulose in the paper to make a permanent mark. Noodler's inks are heavily saturated, i.e., they contain a lot of dye per volume of water. If the dye is fully absorbed by the paper, you won't have a problem. Any excess dye that does not bond with the paper is liable to smudge, however.

Basically, you have two options: (1) use a nib that puts down less ink, or (2) dilute the Noodler's. As to (1), you can either have your present nib adjusted by a nib expert such as John Mottishaw (http://nibs.com/), Richard Binder (http://www.richardspens.com/), Greg Minuskin (http://gregminuskin.com/) and others, or get a dryer-writing nib for your pen (or, of course, get a new pen and nib). As to (2), I routinely dilute my Noodler's Black and other Noodler's inks to help the flow and speed up the drying time. I find that 2 parts ink to 1 part water (preferably distilled water) works best for me. I would start there and either increase the ink or the water until your find your sweet spot.

There is a third option, of course: use another, less-saturated ink. The array of choices is staggering; explore the Ink Reviews (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/forum/35-ink-reviews/) and Inky Thoughts (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/forum/5-inky-thoughts/) forums on the Fountain Pen Network (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/), the B&B of the fountain pen world. For permanency, though, nothing beats Noodler's Black and the other Noodler's "bulletproof" inks.

There's a fourth option, too: use different paper. Noodler's Black tends to work best with more-absorbent, recycled (read: cheaper) papers. In fact, Noodler's Black was developed to work on one of the cheapest kinds of paper, newsprint. A friend of Nathan Tardif (the founder and moving force behind Noodler's) asked him if there was a fountain pen ink that he could use to do the crossword in a newspaper; Noodler's Bulletproof Black was the result.

Bottom line: try diluting the ink first. It works.

P.S. I have no tie with Noodler's. Just a satisfied customer since 2004.

[VampyreWolf]

Clairfontaine 90g paper and Iroshizuku ink :thumbup:

I use a fairly wet writing Dayacom M nib in my daily pen and have no issues with drying time, even on the notebook in my pocket. The only time I've found a pen to take longer drying is the 1.5 nib on my Pelikan Script (doesn't matter which ink, it just writes WET).

I don't see anything wrong with the price on Iroshizuku. Good ink and good paper pay for themselves in enjoyment. If I wanted to save money I'd be using bic sticks and looseleaf :lol:

[housemaidsknee]

I use noodlers on Apica notebooks (that look phenomenal once you get a good leather cover - mine is from renaissance art) - never a problem.

[djm2]

This is perhaps a naive question, but are you using a blotter?

[housemaidsknee]

i use my notebooks for everyday business - so blotters are out of question...

[GarageBoy]

Noodlers and PR inks are heavy on the dyes so it takes a while to dry
Go with any of the big brands and Diamine and it'll be faster drying

[aimsport]

You could try diluting the noodler's a bit too that might help. maybe experiment with like a 90/10 mix or an 80/20 mix of noodler's/water.

+10 Diluting will help it dry faster. truly.

A humid environment can slow drying time.

[LouieGrandie]

I have switched to the Iroshizuku inks and really like their performance on all types of papers.