Razor inflation ... again

[Pioneer]

The price of razors, what's all on our minds, has even struck the "Gillette Speedy" guy, who normally starts his razor offerings at $6.99 - they're now priced to go at a starting bid of $9.99! More of the fun of watching eBay ... (really been interesting lately, especially the sellers who list razors as "All Fatboys!" when there's not even one in there). Ahhh, I think the days of yore when you could routinely - that's the operative word here - pick up deals on the 'Bay are gone (yes, you can get an *occasional* deal, not MOST of the time, though). Same thing happened with vinyl in the 90s - used to be you could pick up all kinds of deals in Goodwills and at garage sales. Ebay drove those prices up too. Yeah, we can get 'em, but the sellers drive up the prices as fast as oil companies... So the Faustian question: is it good that we can get a wider range of offerings at the risk - or, really, the promise - of increased prices?

[moshulu]

I don't get it. What's the problem? Rising prices mean more demand, i.e., our hobby is becoming more popular, with more and more people discovering the benefits of traditional wetshaving. It also means people are not being fooled by the crass allure of modern razors, and are sophisticated enough to appreciate the value of vintage equipment. All this is good. Those of us who have nice collections will some day benefit from our prescience, while anyone who is just starting out can see the right way to go. Now some will fear the prophesied Shavocalypse, while others will fear the more likey Shavocollapse (when wetshaving goes out of fashion). Either way, all this is normal and evolving according to the laws of supply and demand. For myself, I almost never buy razors on ebay. It's much more fun to find inexpensive teasures on obscure web sites and flea markets. Ebayers are lazy and deserve to pay more.

[LiveOak]

No, it's not better. I've only been a member here since December of 2009. RAD hit me like it has everyone else, and at the beginning, I was finding flea market and antique store deals pretty frequently. Much harder now. I will often go into an antique store and the owner says that someone came in and bought up all the shaving stuff.

My only hope is that this is a speculator market. This happens with a lot of collectibles. Something gets hot, and all of a sudden people are spending ridiculous prices for things that just recently sold for much less. Eventually people refuse to pay those prices and the prices come down. I don't for one second believe that most of the sellers on ebay are shaving enthusiasts. They just see a currently hot item. It happened with comic books in the 90's.

[Bestarrkin]

I don't get it. Well I am not accusing anyone but generally US buyers raise prices on ebay. If you buy razors with high prices, you will sell them with higher prices in near future. Well, I am talking about valuable and rare razors(not red tips or fatboys)

[drewmac]

No, it's not better. I've only been a member here since December of 2009. RAD hit me like it has everyone else, and at the beginning, I was finding flea market and antique store deals pretty frequently. Much harder now. I will often go into an antique store and the owner says that someone came in and bought up all the shaving stuff.

I get that line at local antique shops fairly often. Lately I've been traveling into the middle of nowhere to find anything shave related in an antique shop.

[amishmotorboat]

It is hard to believe that demand has really risen as much as prices today indicate.
On the supply side of the equation, there appear to be more available for purchase today than a year and a half ago. At that time I did a search for gillette fatboy on eBay and it was pretty common to only come up with 20-25 results, some of which were clearly not fatboys. Today that same search gets you around 50 results in the collectibles category, and most of them are properly identified.
How much does demand have to grow in order to double the price of a thing which is doubly available? I don't know, I'm not an economist, just something to ponder.

[jgkeegan]

It is hard to believe that demand has really risen as much as prices today indicate.
On the supply side of the equation, there appear to be more available for purchase today than a year and a half ago. At that time I did a search for gillette fatboy on eBay and it was pretty common to only come up with 20-25 results, some of which were clearly not fatboys. Today that same search gets you around 50 results in the collectibles category, and most of them are properly identified.
How much does demand have to grow in order to double the price of a thing which is doubly available? I don't know, I'm not an economist, just something to ponder.


It's hard for me to get a feel for demand in the terms it has been discussed here, bit I can say with absolute certainty that for the past several months whenever I visit an antique or second hand shop and ask about razors of any type, the seller tells me that a lot of people have asked for the same thing recently.

--james

[GreekGuy]

I think this is a common problem, and is mostly due to people buying stuff at antique stores to flip on ebay.

On my last trip to the middle of nowhere, all I saw was common junk. Either in too poor shape to be worth it, or at full retail prices. My opinion is I don't need to waste time and gas driving to the middle of nowhere and spend hours scrutinizing display cases full of old junk to find a common razor at retail price. I can sit on my couch at home, find photos of exactly what I want in a matter of minutes, and have it delivered instead.

On the one hand, yes, its a shame that this is happening. On the other, it means more razors are coming to market than ending up in the trash bin. I'd rather see wetshaving grow in popularity, meaning razors cost more, than have them sell for a fraction of what they are worth now and soap/cream/blade manufacturers go bankrupt from lack of demand.

[RyanR]

I was in an antique store here in South Texas on Thursday and bought an ERN straight from a gentleman. I asked him if he has anymore shaving razors. He told me no. As soon as he puts them out, they're gone. I wish i would have gotten into this hobby earlier.

[BowTieGuy]

I'm hearing the same thing at antique stores - "You shoulda been here last week, I had a whole bunch of _____ - some guy snapped it all up!"

Alright, fess up - which one of you is it?

;)

[Slash McCoy]

I'm hearing the same thing at antique stores - "You shoulda been here last week, I had a whole bunch of _____ - some guy snapped it all up!"

Alright, fess up - which one of you is it?

;)

"Wasn't Me", says the guy making another floral arrangement out of 3 dozen Old Models as he hops madly from one foot to the other and cackles gleefully.

[Dalejr]

It's good that more people are getting into DE shaving, maybe it will force blade manufactures to keep pumping them out and hold off shavepocolypse a few years, bad news for newbies and others who want a variety of razors will have to pay more to get them...

[insight]

Some people may not like what I'm going to say or think I'm nuts, but in some way the double-edge razor has become what the air bubble in running shoes were in the early 90s. Re-sellers know this and are snatching up razors from every closet, estate sale, antique store and everywhere else they can.

Lets be honest, a lot of these people buying these razors in mass-quantities aren't collectors, they are simply people trying to cash in on something that has become somewhat trendy over the past few years. Everything has gotten more expensive, from the lowly Tech all the way up to the more obscure cased models by Gillette and other manufacturers. Sellers are getting more educated on what they are selling, if I see something for sale on ebay for example and the seller is using date codes etc I tend to avoid them as I know someone is probably going to get soaked.

The whole reason I started shaving with a double-edge razor was the economics of it. I found a razor, blade, cream/soap that works and I'm happy to stick with it unless something gets discontinued which as we know can happen. Maybe I'm a cheap guy? But to me shaving, like cutting hair on my head, clipping my finger and toenails etc it's just a routine.

In the end, if people are willing to pay the set price, they price will continue to go upwards.

[nortac]

I live in the middle of now where and have to travel 30 miles to an antique district ( 4-5 stores) and the pickings remain slim. I'm mostly limited to the bay and BST. The allure of potential immediate gratification is strong!

[john.bradburne]

it is nice to see more people getting in to it however the same ones you are going to the antique stores to find on the cheap are the exact ones that are ending up on ebay at outrageous prices. it is unfortunate that people exploit stuff such as this for profit. but on the other hand we have places such as this. you can go on the BST forum and find the razor you are looking for. I am not naive enough to think people arent making a bit of money on these razors but so they should but they are not taking advantage.

[JBagKY]

Yeah, I went into an antique store on Friday and looked around and then asked the owner if they had any DE razors. They said, "No, but if they were to come in, I would snap them up in a minute". I don't know if that would be to put an extraordinary price on them or put them on the bay.

It is frustrating when you want to find something. It is a fine line. We want there to be more out there, but we want to be the ones to find them. I guess in the end, that they aren't discarded, as someone else mentioned, is really the best thing that we can hope for.

Thankfully, while I want more than I have, I have been very good at controlling any form of AD.

[bassmanlarry]

I'm happy with my current DE collection, but worry I need to start building my SE collection. I'm already seeing price creep there and that's just been in the past month.

[Go West Young Man]

I get that line at every antique store I visit too, no matter how hidden or obscure it is.

[themba]

Sometimes if demand goes up, sellers will raise prices regardless of whether their supply goes up or down. They just figure they can get more money for what they are selling. I have been noticing something interesting as well; I have seen a few sellers charging obscene prices, knowing very well they are obscene prices, hoping to just just that one sucker will to pay what they are asking. Also, as someone has already mentioned, when you see items being sold for these high prices, if they ever come on the market again, their resale price will be high.

If you look at collectors, they usually have more than one of each item that they are collecting. All of a sudden now, more and more wet shavers fancy themselves as collectors, hoarding as many of each razor as they can, and alway looking for ones in better condition. There is anything wrong with this of course. This simply just increasese the demand.

[Go West Young Man]

I'm still seeing razors go for low prices on eBay, they just don't get as much attention as the $200 Fatboys. And I'm still picking up razors locally for well under $20, you just have to be patient and travel off the highway a bit :)

[moshulu]

I have no sympathy for people that complain about the high prices of DE razors. Anyone who just wants an excellent inexpensive razor can simply make a one-time modest investment of $15 in a fat-handled Tech and be set for the rest of his life. This fine razor gives as good a shave (or better) than a #16 or #58. Everyone else (including me) is in it for the thrill of the chase and for the perverted pleasure of possesion. These people must bow to the inexorable laws of supply, demand and fashion. There are close to 40000 members of B&B now. When I joined, it was half that number. Is this fact somehow supposed to be without significance? How many of the people who are complaining joined up in the past year and bought all those Fatboys? The only real question is: will the DE movement grow or will it fade? That alone, and nothing else, will set prices in the future. No one knows the answer to the question, so why worry?

[doug1066]

Well, I just paid more than I should have for a Slim. It is in excellent condition and was a birth year razor. I just had to have it for that reason.

[GreekGuy]

I have no sympathy for people that complain about the high prices of DE razors. Anyone who just wants an excellent inexpensive razor can simply make a one-time modest investment of $15 in a fat-handled Tech and be set for the rest of his life. This fine razor gives as good a shave (or better) than a #16 or #58. Everyone else (including me) is in it for the thrill of the chase and for the perverted pleasure of possesion. These people must bow to the inexorable laws of supply, demand and fashion. There are close to 40000 members of B&B now. When I joined, it was half that number. Is this fact somehow supposed to be without significance? How many of the people who are complaining joined up in the past year and bought all those Fatboys? The only real question is: will the DE movement grow or will it fade? That alone, and nothing else, will set prices in the future. No one knows the answer to the question, so why worry?

Very well stated :thumbup1:

[Phil1-6]

I have no sympathy for people that complain about the high prices of DE razors. Anyone who just wants an excellent inexpensive razor can simply make a one-time modest investment of $15 in a fat-handled Tech and be set for the rest of his life. This fine razor gives as good a shave (or better) than a #16 or #58. Everyone else (including me) is in it for the thrill of the chase and for the perverted pleasure of possesion. These people must bow to the inexorable laws of supply, demand and fashion. There are close to 40000 members of B&B now. When I joined, it was half that number. Is this fact somehow supposed to be without significance? How many of the people who are complaining joined up in the past year and bought all those Fatboys? The only real question is: will the DE movement grow or will it fade? That alone, and nothing else, will set prices in the future. No one knows the answer to the question, so why worry?

Newbe here. What is this elusive $15 fat-handled Tech you speak of?

[Bestarrkin]

I have no sympathy for people that complain about the high prices of DE razors. Anyone who just wants an excellent inexpensive razor can simply make a one-time modest investment of $15 in a fat-handled Tech and be set for the rest of his life. This fine razor gives as good a shave (or better) than a #16 or #58. Everyone else (including me) is in it for the thrill of the chase and for the perverted pleasure of possesion. These people must bow to the inexorable laws of supply, demand and fashion. There are close to 40000 members of B&B now. When I joined, it was half that number. Is this fact somehow supposed to be without significance? How many of the people who are complaining joined up in the past year and bought all those Fatboys? The only real question is: will the DE movement grow or will it fade? That alone, and nothing else, will set prices in the future. No one knows the answer to the question, so why worry?

Well said. Maybe some people call that inconvenient truth but it is at least true.

[BBrad]

The price of razors, what's all on our minds, has even struck the "Gillette Speedy" guy, who normally starts his razor offerings at $6.99 - they're now priced to go at a starting bid of $9.99! More of the fun of watching eBay ... (really been interesting lately, especially the sellers who list razors as "All Fatboys!" when there's not even one in there). Ahhh, I think the days of yore when you could routinely - that's the operative word here - pick up deals on the 'Bay are gone (yes, you can get an *occasional* deal, not MOST of the time, though). Same thing happened with vinyl in the 90s - used to be you could pick up all kinds of deals in Goodwills and at garage sales. Ebay drove those prices up too. Yeah, we can get 'em, but the sellers drive up the prices as fast as oil companies... So the Faustian question: is it good that we can get a wider range of offerings at the risk - or, really, the promise - of increased prices?

Reading through the replies so far has been interesting . . . but if I may go back to Pioneer's original post . . .

While many point to the evils of the eBay marketplace and blame dishonest (or stupid) sellers for the high prices of razors, the reality is that the market, in all its forms with all its buyers, sets the selling prices. The seller ultimately has little say in the market price of an item.

The price of oil example is a great case in point, but not because the oil companies are evil. Prices are up right now because buyers (not sellers) at the wholesale level have panicked over the political unrest in the Middle East. They can afford a little panic because they know the retail buyer (we) is willing to pay $4 per gallon at the pump!

Yes, razors (and vinyl LPs) are getting harder to find "for cheap" in the wild . . . but they are also getting less commonly found in estate sales due to their lack of manufacture over the past 25 years or so.

Yes, people do buy them just to "flip" them on eBay. That is a feature of our economy known as free enterprise. As long as it is profitable to do so, it will be done. While the razor market could go in one of two extremes: either the supply dries up and prices go through the roof, or the bottom drops out and you won't be able to give them away. The most likely scenario, however, is that prices at both the wholesale and retail levels ebb and flow within an acceptable range as supply and demand fluctuate.

While starting prices may be higher now than last year, the number of bidders actually placing bids or just "watching" has sharply declined in the past few weeks for "common" razors. (There is always high demand for "special" items.) I have seen the same trend in other item categories that I have interest in as well, and believe it to be seasonal as much as anything since the same trend was noted last year at this time.

Last fall, "Speedy" could list a razor at $6.99 and be certain that it would bring at least $9.99 with a few bidders involved. Today, there are fewer bidders and more items selling for opening bid.

Since it is no fun to sell everything at opening bid one can always raise the opening price to a profitable level - easier done now that eBay is offering free listings with BIN. But, there is no guarantee that the buyer will pay the higher opening price!

As to the OP's final question . . . a wider range of options (that exceeds demand) generally produces lower prices. Lower prices will cause production to drop off. (I haven't listed any razors in two weeks.) Production dropping below demand then causes prices to rebound. Ebb and flow, rise and fall, balance and . . . balance?

Isn't a free market grand??? :thumbup1:

[LiveOak]

Newbe here. What is this elusive $15 fat-handled Tech you speak of?



Moshulu's point is well taken. If we are just looking for great shaves without exorbitant expense, any number of inexpensive Gillette's will do (not to mention many modestly priced Merkur's). Instead, we get entranced with all of the various models. I'm not saying that's bad...I'm under the spell as much as anyone.http://www.shm.dk/shave/de_razor/09_fat_tech/Gillette%20Fat%20Tech%201939-42.jpg