Hi-Point firearms

[flight567]

ok, so, i've been interested in getting a gun for a while now. mainly for home-defence (granted i'm 15 and live in a pretty safe area, but one never knows) and maybef or going down to the range on base... however, my family is a little short on funds atm, to short to buy Glock or another "big" name. so, in a tedius(read:5 minutes an a google search) i've come to Hi-Point firearms. located in Mansfield Ohio (i live near Dayton) i've done some research on them and came to a site where there's a long standing debate going on about them. most who don't own one have turned their heads at this "cheap, ugly gun" but almost everyone who does own one loves it, and many have actually outshot bretta's,Glock's and Colt's at competitions. the handguns (my choice preferably 9MM or .40) are blowback designe (which i unerstand isn't normal?) and are heavier than most other guns their size, many dislike the look of the handguns, but i think they have a "simple rugged" look to the that i like.too, many owners havn't had a single jam/misfire in 2000 rounds, (which i understand is exelent) and seemingly, always go BANG so, i suppose i would rather have something that might not look as nice but i know i can depend on to go BANG should the need arise, rather than having a nice looking gun that jams half the time, especialy since this is home protection not a show peice. now, the one concern i have with them is thatto strip the gun, one must first remove a pin in the reciever. and to do that, apperently, it requires a 1/8 punch or a screwdriver of some kind. does anyone know if i could find a way to not need that pin? or get it out without using the punch in an emergency? also, if anyone knows anything else or has expereince with this company, i would really apreiciate help. my dad (Vietnam veteran) is going to teach me how to strip, clean, shoot, and most importantly respect, a gun when i get one. here's the website for HI-Point http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/index.html thanks all for the help!

[art803]

+1 to the firearms forum. I have shot a hi point and the problem is they are not consistant. They are great or crap. You will not know if you got a good one until you shoot it. Look at the xd, tarous, or ruger if you want lower price. but check other forums first.

[binowatch]

Keep away! A firearm is a great source of fun and recreation, but it may be called upon to save your life-you want a quality and consistent tool. As a long term shooter who has made all the mistakes at one time or another-nothing is more frustrating, disappointing, angering than an unreliable gun. Save you money a get a quality piece. Ruger, Springfield, Taurus have reasonable prices and if you can a good used gun can be a great bargain.

[art803]

also the walter pk380 is at a good price if you are ok with a small round. but still love my sig and kimber

[flight567]

so, that's a no go on the Hi-point?hmmm. welll, i'll look at some used ones. ask around on some firearms forums, i've got a friend who's an NRA member. i'll see what he knows about them. thanks for the advice. any other opinions?

[bamafan64]

When it comes to firearms, buy once, cry once. If you get a cheap firearm that is shoddily made, you won't be as likely to practice with it like you should. Pick it up, play with it, work the action on it. Do this with a variety of weapons and you'll very quickly be able to pick out what is well made and what isn't.

[Jim]

Tyler,
first off your question is most welcome here at B&B in the great outdoors forum. Many many of our members enjoy the shooting sports.

My suggestion for you is to get a .22 caliber rimfire as your first handgun.

Biggest reason? cost to shoot is the lowest. With big center fire rounds even reloading is still going to cost you much more that a rim fire.

The rimfire will allow you to fire hundreds of rounds per session and become a much more proficient shooter in short order.

Practice, practice, practice!

.22 rimfires are fun to shoot, affordable and the skills will transfer easily to your centerfires later.

Good luck to you.

[bamafan64]

Tyler,
first off your question is most welcome here at B&B in the great outdoors forum. Many many of our members enjoy the shooting sports.

My suggestion for you is to get a .22 caliber rimfire as your first handgun.

Biggest reason? cost to shoot is the lowest. With big center fire rounds even reloading is still going to cost you much more that a rim fire.

The rimfire will allow you to fire hundreds of rounds per session and become a much more proficient shooter in short order.

Practice, practice, practice!

.22 rimfires are fun to shoot, affordable and the skills will transfer easily to your centerfires later.

Good luck to you.
Very good advice!

[PharmerMat]

Tyler,
first off your question is most welcome here at B&B in the great outdoors forum. Many many of our members enjoy the shooting sports.

My suggestion for you is to get a .22 caliber rimfire as your first handgun.

Biggest reason? cost to shoot is the lowest. With big center fire rounds even reloading is still going to cost you much more that a rim fire.

The rimfire will allow you to fire hundreds of rounds per session and become a much more proficient shooter in short order.

Practice, practice, practice!

.22 rimfires are fun to shoot, affordable and the skills will transfer easily to your centerfires later.

Good luck to you.

+1 to all of this--

and in regards to your original question about Hi-Point, the comment about consistency is 100% correct-- it truly is a crap shoot, as demonstrated at an open shoot I went to with my brother a few years back... there were a few guys with Hi-Points and one of them was a dream to shoot (ugly as sin, but still shot very well) the other few that I ran into were awful

I'm very good friends with the owner of a local gun shop, and he has stopped carrying them in his inventory altogether. His reason: the profit margin was excellent, BUT he never got repeat business from customers that bought a Hi-Point becausethey were so turned off by the guns that they didn't want to do business with the guy that sold it to them.

Also, check carefully into your local laws, in many states there is a minimum age to own a handgun. I'd hate for you to find your dream gun, save your money for it and then find out you have to wait 6 years to buy it.

[denim]

Why buy new? There are plenty of used guns available.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

Why buy new? There are plenty of used guns available.

+1 - used is your friend, the market on used glocks et al is brutal vs. the price new, you should be able to find a higher quality gun used than buying an iffy gun new, and have a much better long term experience.

[DavyRay]

You did mention that funds were short. That is a great argument for Jim's advice about getting a .22 caliber. Pistols are not intuitive. Practice is necessary in order to hit the target. It is far better to have a .22 that you can master, than to have a large caliber pistol that you can't fire much for cost reasons. Check out prices for ammunition.

[Groat]

I wouldn't buy a cheap handgun. Note that cheap does not mean inexpensive. I've had a couple buddies buy cheap guns and they are not worth it.

Note that Glock gives military discounts, including retired military. You'll have to find a dealer who does the military/LE discounts, but the price is quite good. I paid $440 for my Glock 22 and they come with a third magazine (~$25 value) to boot.

[Nishnabotna]

The .22 pistol is a good suggestion if you are new to firearms. The S&W 22A is often on sale for $200, about the cheapest I can think of and it still functions fine (early models had problems with magazine feeding, but that seems to be all worked out now).
Teach yourself the fundamentals of shooting (and safety) with the .22 and then feel confident to step up to a larger caliber. It may be worthwhile to you to find an NRA basic pistol class in your area.

[timsclips]

Hi Point---don't bother, save a little more for a nice clean used Ruger. A 22 should be everyone's starting firearm, used a Ruger Standard myself when they could be bought new for less than $100.

[tebbiebear]

Hi-Point is cheap, dangerous junk.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/emando/forum%20pics/IMGA02591.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/emando/forum%20pics/IMGA02651.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/emando/forum%20pics/IMGA02751.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/emando/forum%20pics/IMGA02761.jpg

For the record, that was using factory 40s&w loads (winchester white box iirc) for the entire time. Less than 100 rounds into it firing. Look around enough and you will see this many times, this is NOT a rare or isolated incident.

[The Pontificator]

A Hi-Point is something you buy to play with once you already have something decent. Some of the other posters are right, they're either extremely dependable or they're not. Although Hi-Point has a very good customer service department, the time to find out that you're going to need them is not at 3am if you get my drift.

My suggestion: find someone who really knows about firearms and have them assist you in purchasing something good such as a police turn-in .38/.357 magnum revolver or an Eastern European police surplus. Many of the latter can be had via C&R dealers (Curio&Relic). You can get an excellent pistol chambered in 9mm Makarov for not too much scratch.

[The Pontificator]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1Glk17&name=Glock+17+9mm+Handgun+with+regular+sights&groupid=3

AIM surplus offers used (likely former law enforcement) Glock 17 9mm for $360. You'll have to pay shipping to a licensed dealer and pay that dealer's transfer fee. A fair price for a transfer fee IMO is around $25. You should not have to pay sales tax because you're not buying the firearm from the licensed dealer who is arranging the transfer. If a dealer insists you pay sales tax on top of the transfer fee, WALK AWAY. They're going to pocket that amount.

[americanarmsdealer]

Good advice above with going used or with a .22 for a beginner pistol. You might try to hunt down a used CZ pistol. Ridiculous reliability and accuracy, and the various 9mm pistols from CZ that I've fired(my wife and I own a couple:001_rolle) are the softest shooting 9s I've ever handled. Same for the .40 caliber versions. I quit counting how many rounds we had fed my wife's CZ75 Semi-Compact at around 1000 rounds, (probably 3 years ago) and it's never even hiccupped. My CZ2075 RAMI-P probably has about 800 to 1000 rounds through it, and it has the same flawless record thus far.

For a .22, I'd suggest a Ruger. Just my 2 cents, of course.:001_smile

[jwcarlson]

I have a Hi-Point in .40 cal. Out of the box it jammed every shot almost.

Bent the retainers on the top of the magazine out a little bit and that solved it. Haven't had a jam since.

The disclaimer being that I don't shoot it very often but it's had 150 rounds through without a jam now.
I need to dig it out now that it's warming up!

[Blue Raccoon]

you can't buy a pistol until you are 21.. of course Dad can buy a pistol and let you use it. get a 22lr that you can afford to shoot.

[flycbyrd]

Unless your state has a gun law like alabama that allows you to carry a pistol if your a farm hand on your parents land, then your to young to buy a pistol. I have done alot of research on forums and reviews and the hi-point has a problem with jamming esp with the 40 s&w, like someone stated above. Thats def not something you want for self defense. I do however believe 40 s&w to be one of the best conceal carry self defense calibers. I have a glock 27 with night sights. 22 defintely is a far better caliber for a beginner there is no kick and its very accurate and cheap. I would go with a walther p22. Now on a side note, it would be illegal to carry the pistol on you or even have it in your families vehicle without a concealed weapons permit. Unless you carry it on your property only. If your wanting a home defense gun, I wouldnt get a pistol. I would get a shot gun. A remington 870 youth model. The gun will be a 20 gauge modified choke tube, pump action, with a shorter barrel than a normal shotgun. It comes with the plug out, so shell capacity is increased, leave it out. I would load it with 6 shot. It will be far.more devestating than buckshot or a slug or a pistol round at such close quarters. Hard to miss with a shotgun at close range to. The gun is about 250 last time I checked. You only have to be 18 to buy one yourself .

[Slash McCoy]

A .22 is a great first pistol, as many have pointed out, by virtue of being inexpensive and most importantly cheap to shoot. Going to a range once a week and sending a couple hundred rounds downrange costs chump change. And if you expect to be able to use a handgun for home defense, you MUST practice a LOT. If your ammo budget is, say, $10/week you won't be practicing much unless you are shooting 22s.

On the other hand, a .22 is pretty anemic for defensive use.

You can have your cake and shoot it, too. My suggestion is to look for a good used 1911type .45ACP. It's a heavy hitter and proven bad-guy dropper. Ammo isn't too expensive, but you can economize even more by buying a .22 conversion kit. That enables you to shoot all morning from your brick of el cheapo .22 paperpunchers, then switch back to .45 and shoot up one magazine just so you re-acquaint yourself with the recoil.

If you are not familiar with semiauto pistols it is ESSENTIAL that you get some training in their safe operation and user-level maintenance. A revolver is pretty intuitive, for the most part, but a first semiauto will come with a significant learning curve. You must learn how to clear a jammed gun, reload, determine whether or not a round is chambered, determine whether or not your safety is engaged, do a complete function check, field strip and clean your gun, adjust sights if they are adjustable, as well as safely handle and fire it. You should not feel intimidated by the higher level of complexity of the semi, but you MUST take it into consideration and get proper training.

I think any beginning shooter should join the NRA. You will have a lot of resources available to you for training and shooting opportunities. If you don't have a parent or uncle who shoots, professional training simply is not optional. It is absolutely necessary!

Minors generally are not permitted on most ranges without parental supervision. You will need a related adult with you. After all, officially it won't even be your gun. Someone 21 years of age or older will have to make the purchase for you, and that person will be the legal owner. He or she normally cannot transfer ownership to a person under 21 years of age. So more than likely, you will also want the same training for the responsible adult. This other person may as well practice, as well, so you better figure on doubling your ammo budget.

[flight567]

ok, so, i talked to my NRA friend today. he apperently ownes almost everything hat Hi-Point has to offer lol (what a coincidence[he doesn't own. his dad owns but bought for him]) his favorite to shoot isn't one of the carbines but the c9. he's been through 3 of them. (given two away) and through roughly 6000 rounds not a singe jam/misfire. he's had one dud throughout his Hi-point ride. and that was the .40 s&w. failed pulled the above thing. although, he had a freind who had 3 glocks in a row do that to him so.... since then, he's had an intence hatred for Glocks. he says that if i have a dud, that he will give me one of his guns while i have it sent away to be fixed/replaced. so, i think i'm fairly safe there (still wouldn't want to wake up and 3 a.m. and it not go bang) but i think that i'll befine. i'm still looking for some used guns aswell and am looking for advice on what to look for in a used gun. to the .22 people. that's what i originaly wanted but my dad said that while a .22 is a good gun, and is inexpensive,and great to practice on. that he would rather me practice on something else. because when he first got his .22 and then changed to a .45, the recoil killed anything he'd learned from the .22. as for the 1911. my friend Alex (that's the NRA member i was just talking about) was just looking at a used one. but when he went to look at it, it wasn't at all what had been pictured and was pretty well beat to hell.... i would like to have a 1911, but i'm not even sure where to start with it. so yes i'm definately open to other options, but i need a lot of help in figuring out what is what. i'm getting training from my dad who, was in vietnam and also from a retired police officer who went to school with my mom. and i hope that takes care of the training... i'll look into joining the NRA, bt first i want to know what i'm getting. thank you all for your help so far! :)

[Grumpy_Bottom]

ok, so, i talked to my NRA friend today. he apperently ownes almost everything hat Hi-Point has to offer lol (what a coincidence[he doesn't own. his dad owns but bought for him]) his favorite to shoot isn't one of the carbines but the c9. he's been through 3 of them. (given two away) and through roughly 6000 rounds not a singe jam/misfire. he's had one dud throughout his Hi-point ride. and that was the .40 s&w. failed pulled the above thing. although, he had a freind who had 3 glocks in a row do that to him so.... since then, he's had an intence hatred for Glocks. he says that if i have a dud, that he will give me one of his guns while i have it sent away to be fixed/replaced. so, i think i'm fairly safe there (still wouldn't want to wake up and 3 a.m. and it not go bang) but i think that i'll befine. i'm still looking for some used guns aswell and am looking for advice on what to look for in a used gun. to the .22 people. that's what i originaly wanted but my dad said that while a .22 is a good gun, and is inexpensive,and great to practice on. that he would rather me practice on something else. because when he first got his .22 and then changed to a .45, the recoil killed anything he'd learned from the .22. as for the 1911. my friend Alex (that's the NRA member i was just talking about) was just looking at a used one. but when he went to look at it, it wasn't at all what had been pictured and was pretty well beat to hell.... i would like to have a 1911, but i'm not even sure where to start with it. so yes i'm definately open to other options, but i need a lot of help in figuring out what is what. i'm getting training from my dad who, was in vietnam and also from a retired police officer who went to school with my mom. and i hope that takes care of the training... i'll look into joining the NRA, bt first i want to know what i'm getting. thank you all for your help so far! :)

If Dad is against the .22 (which is, to an extent understandable, but hopefully he's the one writing the check for ammo when it's time for range time), then a 9mm is eminently more controllable than .40 or .45 rounds, and a great starter caliber that is still "practical" for tactical use. There are literally a zillion 9mm pistols out there that can be had on the cheap, as I recall...Colt's XD series is a great option that shouldn't be too expensive, and again, Glock in 9mm is virtually indestructable, practical, and a great starter pistol...particularly if you buy used.

[flycbyrd]

ok, so, i talked to my NRA friend today. he apperently ownes almost everything hat Hi-Point has to offer lol (what a coincidence[he doesn't own. his dad owns but bought for him]) his favorite to shoot isn't one of the carbines but the c9. he's been through 3 of them. (given two away) and through roughly 6000 rounds not a singe jam/misfire. he's had one dud throughout his Hi-point ride. and that was the .40 s&w. failed pulled the above thing. although, he had a freind who had 3 glocks in a row do that to him so.... since then, he's had an intence hatred for Glocks. he says that if i have a dud, that he will give me one of his guns while i have it sent away to be fixed/replaced. so, i think i'm fairly safe there (still wouldn't want to wake up and 3 a.m. and it not go bang) but i think that i'll befine. i'm still looking for some used guns aswell and am looking for advice on what to look for in a used gun. to the .22 people. that's what i originaly wanted but my dad said that while a .22 is a good gun, and is inexpensive,and great to practice on. that he would rather me practice on something else. because when he first got his .22 and then changed to a .45, the recoil killed anything he'd learned from the .22. as for the 1911. my friend Alex (that's the NRA member i was just talking about) was just looking at a used one. but when he went to look at it, it wasn't at all what had been pictured and was pretty well beat to hell.... i would like to have a 1911, but i'm not even sure where to start with it. so yes i'm definately open to other options, but i need a lot of help in figuring out what is what. i'm getting training from my dad who, was in vietnam and also from a retired police officer who went to school with my mom. and i hope that takes care of the training... i'll look into joining the NRA, bt first i want to know what i'm getting. thank you all for your help so far! :)
I.have never heard of a glock failing ever. He had to have been misusing it somehow. I still would suggest a shot gun for home defense, and a 40 s&w over 45, even though the 40s snap recoil is killer. Look at ballistic gels, look at carrying weight there is a reason most police dept have went to 40.

[flight567]

aperently his friends did idk if he had been messing with it, but he was a marine that had just recently gotten back from iraq, so i (personaly) would think that he was using them, or atleast knows how to use a gun correctly. ... i agree about the shotgun, but my mom's scared of something that big... i was also thinking .40, .40 isn't as "universal" as 9mm. the XDs are about two hundred dollars more than the Hi-points, and unless i buy used, (still not entirely sure what to look for in a used gun) i don't think i can get one as cheap as $200. as for a Glock. if 3 in a row blew up on alex's friend, i don't really want to try it :( if i could test-shoot theGlock first then maybe i'll change my mind. but for now, no Glocks, i'll look around for some XD's. thanks once again for all the help.
here's a review done by a magazine, just found this. http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/hipoint_100605/index2.html that's a review of Hi-points done by "the shooting times" magazine.

[blary54]

Im a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Ive never heard of this brand but looking at the price/pictures I can assure you that its a piece of crap.

Get yourself a Mossberg 500 for about $200.00 if you want something for home defense.

[flycbyrd]

aperently his friends did idk if he had been messing with it, but he was a marine that had just recently gotten back from iraq, so i (personaly) would think that he was using them, or atleast knows how to use a gun correctly. ... i agree about the shotgun, but my mom's scared of something that big... i was also thinking .40, .40 isn't as "universal" as 9mm. the XDs are about two hundred dollars more than the Hi-points, and unless i buy used, (still not entirely sure what to look for in a used gun) i don't think i can get one as cheap as $200. as for a Glock. if 3 in a row blew up on alex's friend, i don't really want to try it :( if i could test-shoot theGlock first then maybe i'll change my mind. but for now, no Glocks, i'll look around for some XD's. thanks once again for all the help.
here's a review done by a magazine, just found this. http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/hipoint_100605/index2.html that's a review of Hi-points done by "the shooting times" magazine.

If you could find an xdm it would be even better, its a little more natural feeling than a xd which is hard to believe. Both are all around great guns and they come in 40 s&w too. The bullets are cheaper than some very similar to 9mm cost but the recoil is far different from any other caliber. You will have to put a min of 50 rounds down range to get use to the 40s recoil. On a used gun you want to look to see how bad the holster or carry marks are on the finish. You want to really look at the slide, the rails for gouging and the spring for tension. I still stand behind the 870 youth model recommendation I gave you. Even though they look scarier to moms alike they are safer more user friendly, its easier to shoot yourself with a pistol or get bitten by a pistol, which hurts so bad....

[flight567]

so, would it be better to save up for a "great" gun? or buy a Hi-Pont for now and then start saving up?

[flight567]

ok, will take everything into consideration. i'll do some more research on everythig and i'll get back to everyone once i've made my choice, thank you all for your help!

[flycbyrd]

Try budsgunshop.com, I can vouch for good service from the also try gunbroker.com its ebay but for guns.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

I.have never heard of a glock failing ever. He had to have been misusing it somehow. I still would suggest a shot gun for home defense, and a 40 s&w over 45, even though the 40s snap recoil is killer. Look at ballistic gels, look at carrying weight there is a reason most police dept have went to 40.

The .40 failures in glock were pretty well documented (though not necessarily widespread), but I think isolated to that cal, as I haven't heard the same about 9mm. With that said, I have over 1000 rounds of .40 through my 35 and never had a ftf or fte...

[flycbyrd]

The .40 failures in glock were pretty well documented (though not necessarily widespread), but I think isolated to that cal, as I haven't heard the same about 9mm. With that said, I have over 1000 rounds of .40 through my 35 and never had a ftf or fte...

Was it with jacketed bullets or just soft lead? I beieve it is possible but im sure a company like glock has went far beyond correcting the problem by now. I havent had a problem with my 27 yet either.

[salazch12]

Keep away! A firearm is a great source of fun and recreation, but it may be called upon to save your life-you want a quality and consistent tool. As a long term shooter who has made all the mistakes at one time or another-nothing is more frustrating, disappointing, angering than an unreliable gun. Save you money a get a quality piece. Ruger, Springfield, Taurus have reasonable prices and if you can a good used gun can be a great bargain.

I tend to agree. A high-point is good for target practice, but no way I'd trust my life to one. I keep my Glock or my Ruger on me when I legally carry and I trust them.
High-Points are cheap, but make the investment and get something that will work if you have to use it.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

Was it with jacketed bullets or just soft lead? I beieve it is possible but im sure a company like glock has went far beyond correcting the problem by now. I havent had a problem with my 27 yet either.

google Glock kB! and you'll find plenty of references to .40, 10mm and .45 failures. Like I said, I have well over 1k through my 35 with no issues at all, but as kB!s go, Glock is generally top of the list of the problem list.

"The lack of full case support in the critical area over the feed ramp of all large caliber (.40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP) Glock pistols.

(Ostensibly as a measure to promote feed reliability, Glock chamber mouths are slightly oversized. One can test this by removing the barrel from the Glock, dropping a factory round into the chamber, and observing that there is brass exposed at the six o'clock position. Take a fired case and note that there is a slight engraving if not actual bulge around the case web, which is most pronounced in the area of the case which, upon firing, was in the six-o'clock position.)"

ETA: FWIW, most kB! references leave at least a nod to +p ammo, often multiply reloaded +p ammo, so we're not exactly talking about a full fault of the gun itself, but it's at least worth noting that Glock is the single largest referenced Kaboom! firearm

[salazch12]

If you want a great conceal carry gun, check out the Sig P238 (http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p238.aspx).

[Groat]

Was it with jacketed bullets or just soft lead? I beieve it is possible but im sure a company like glock has went far beyond correcting the problem by now. I havent had a problem with my 27 yet either.

For what it's worth, some Glocks have gone through an upgrade in the past year or two. Glock 17s and Glock 22s are now on generation 4, which use parts different than older versions.

Since I bought my Glock 22 (generation 4) I've put about 1000 rounds through it and haven't had a single problem. The reliability is a bit better than I've had with some more expensive firearms, especially when you're talking about right out of the box.

[flight567]

so, i've read some reviews on Glocks, tauri (idk what the plural is...) XDs and the like and compared with the reviews on High-Points there is a long thread here http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/5308-opinions-high-point-firearms-page-16.html seems like 99% of people who own High-Points are very pleased with them, and many use them (from what i understand) as their concealed caries/ home defense guns aswell as their plinking guns. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the 9 and 45. I have fired over 3000 rounds in each and have NEVER had a single jam. As for accuracy, It's better than my SIG. I have a friend who had a few problems with jams and it was his mag. he got a new mag and it doesn't jam anymore. Those of you that have problems confuses me.

this is one goodreview, and there are plenty of bad reviews aswell, but it seems to me as though they are the same as Kimber, or Colt, sometimes you just get a bad gun, no matter HOW good the manufacturer is. maybe i'm oversimplifying, but how many of you who have commented on the highpoints being crap actually own one? or atleast have a freind who owns one and you have used one for an extended period of time, because based on the threads i've been reading a lot of people are happy with the guns that they've got. does this mean that my mind is made up? that i'm going with High-point? nope :tongue_sm just that i want to make sure that everyone who is commenting has actually had experience with the guns before they say that it's crap :laugh:

[flycbyrd]

so, i've read some reviews on Glocks, tauri (idk what the plural is...) XDs and the like and compared with the reviews on High-Points there is a long thread here http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/5308-opinions-high-point-firearms-page-16.html seems like 99% of people who own High-Points are very pleased with them, and many use them (from what i understand) as their concealed caries/ home defense guns aswell as their plinking guns. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the 9 and 45. I have fired over 3000 rounds in each and have NEVER had a single jam. As for accuracy, It's better than my SIG. I have a friend who had a few problems with jams and it was his mag. he got a new mag and it doesn't jam anymore. Those of you that have problems confuses me.

this is one goodreview, and there are plenty of bad reviews aswell, but it seems to me as though they are the same as Kimber, or Colt, sometimes you just get a bad gun, no matter HOW good the manufacturer is. maybe i'm oversimplifying, but how many of you who have commented on the highpoints being crap actually own one? or atleast have a freind who owns one and you have used one for an extended period of time, because based on the threads i've been reading a lot of people are happy with the guns that they've got. does this mean that my mind is made up? that i'm going with High-point? nope :tongue_sm just that i want to make sure that everyone who is commenting has actually had experience with the guns before they say that it's crap :laugh:

It was the gun I looked at getting before I got my glock. I read lots of reviews on it and many were very harsh on the gun. I still didnt believe the reviews but came across an ultra lite judge and it was when there was a waiting list everywhere for the gun for over 3months and back ordered. I paid 570 for it. Well my dad went and picked it up for me and told me how cheaply made the other gun I wanted was, I didnt beieve him. I went to hold it a few months later and he was right. Uncomfortable in the hand which matters alot, felt very cheap. So cheap I wouldnt buy it even to plink.

[flight567]

ahh, i see, so they feel cheap? alright, well, i'll have to hold one to make my own disicion on that.(they're made of a type of plastic so i would assume that they would feel sligtly cheap.) but i'll definately take your advice on feeling the gun before i buy it. my dad and i are going to try to go to a gunshop tomorrow. they sell everything from Glocks to HPs so i'll get to find out what i like and what i don't. now, what exactly should i look for in any gun that i'm going to get? i'm not entirely sure...

[flycbyrd]

ahh, i see, so they feel cheap? alright, well, i'll have to hold one to make my own disicion on that.(they're made of a type of plastic so i would assume that they would feel sligtly cheap.) but i'll definately take your advice on feeling the gun before i buy it. my dad and i are going to try to go to a gunshop tomorrow. they sell everything from Glocks to HPs so i'll get to find out what i like and what i don't. now, what exactly should i look for in any gun that i'm going to get? i'm not entirely sure...
I have for basic criteria. Feel- it has to feel normal, good in the hand not akward its a real personal thing. Concealability- has to easy to conceal without branding, mag cap- its important but doesnt make me decide on the gun I want, my 27 only holds 9 rounds but it really small. Price- this is what deterred me from getting a sig sauer. Now I did blind buy my glock and it took some getting use to, but I did hold alot of similar spec glocks before ordering it. My fav gun in the hand was a baby eagle , but sadly desert eagle discontinued them and therefore they have no warranty at all thats the only reason I didnt get the baby.

[flight567]

so the gun should feel right, be easily concealable and be reasonably priced? sounds goo to me, and everything else will just fall into line after those three criteria aremet?
ok. are there any guns i should look for in perticular when i get there?

[flycbyrd]

so the gun should feel right, be easily concealable and be reasonably priced? sounds goo to me, and everything else will just fall into line after those three criteria aremet?
ok. are there any guns i should look for in perticular when i get there?
Really think you should just try to find a gun thats comfortable, reasonably priced, etc. I would say no lower than a 380 acp no higher than a 45 if your getting a hand gun. my next gun will probably be a 380 acp as a back up to my 40 or a raven 25 if I ever find one priced right. It has a sentimental appeal to me, it was the first semi auto hand gun I ever fired... Then my next rifle I hope will be a mini-14 , a 6.5 grendel , or even better a field issued assault rifle, im trying to become a police officer.

[denim]

I picked up my first, and so far only, pistol used, for $395 a few years ago. It's a S&W 910. I've found that I don't practice. Now, when I was shopping, I also saw a Beretta 92FS, which I fell in love with, but it was another $200+, so I went cheap. Maybe I should've waited and got the more expensive gun which struck me as smoother and which felt better in my hand.

Honestly, I wanted a 9mm, and I wanted it now, and saving up wasn't on my agenda. Nor was going with a .22, which almost certainly would've been smarter. And was suggested by the vendor for the same reasons you've been given here.

These days, I'm thinking of picking up a pellet gun, which is dirt cheap to fire, doesn't require a range, and likely doesn't have the same age limits. You get a large quantity of ammo at Wal*Mart for nearly nothing, and you don't have to deal with gun smoke or the possibility of hurting yourself or someone else (much). Granted, you could put an eye out with that thing, but kill someone? Don't think so. And learn marksmanship, and step up to a .22 later. When you are paying for the supplies.

[djmike523]

Get yourself a Mossberg 500 for about $200.00 if you want something for home defense.

+1; if its for home defense, you'll be in close proximity to that which you're defending from; ya just gotta be in the general area to 'get the job done.'

[Blue Raccoon]

one more time.. under 21 you can not buy a pistol or can you buy the ammo for the pistol or can you get a concealed carry permit. your Dad can not technically buy the gun FOR you. Dad has to buy the gun for himself. If he buys a gun knowing that it is for someone else that is considered a 'straw' purchase.

[flycbyrd]

one more time.. under 21 you can not buy a pistol or can you buy the ammo for the pistol or can you get a concealed carry permit. your Dad can not technically buy the gun FOR you. Dad has to buy the gun for himself. If he buys a gun knowing that it is for someone else that is considered a 'straw' purchase.

Very true; I would think his father would be concealing it in public considering his is the head and protector of the family and old enough to. There are exceptions to the laws but vary state to state. Like alabamas farm hand policy that would allow him to own it under his parents permission and use it on his farm and no where else other than his families land.

[73mountaineer]

No offense meant to the OP, but this entire thread was built on the opening statement, "...i've been interested in getting a gun for a while now. mainly for home-defence (granted i'm 15 and live in a pretty safe area, but one never knows)"

If no one else sees anything fundamentally wrong with that, then maybe I just have different standards regarding firearms, and more specifically handguns. It is one thing for your son or daughter to "have" (i.e. it is 'theirs' but you control access and use) a rifle or shotgun for hunting and target shooting, or even to learn to shoot a handgun under proper supervision, but when a 15 year old says that they want a pistol for home defense, um, really? :001_huh: No one else has any issue with this? Several others have repeatedly made the comment that minors cannot legally own handguns nor purchase ammunition for them, which the OP has largely ignored other than stating that his Dad is going to buy the gun for him in order to circumvent the law.

I'll get off my soap box now, but not without saying unequivocally that no 15 year old kid has any business owning a handgun for home defense or any other reason. Your dad wants to teach you about firearm safety and how to shoot? I say great!! He wants to buy you a pistol to defend your home? No way! As a firearms owner, gun rights supporter, and as a parent, I have a fundamental problem with that. :thumbdown

Carry on...

[Deltaboy]

I have a Hi Point in 45 that I keep in my easy chair. It shoots accurately and is realible as my Smith or any of my Ruger Autos I have owned. I run Cor-Bons through my Hi Point.

When You use google You can find failure pics for just about any gun including Rugers and they are built like Tanks.

[delisle]

All guns can fail, most of the time it has something to do with the operator rather than the firearm.

I have shot a c9 Hi Point and my uncle is a huge gun collector and he recommended the Hi Point to me when I first started buying pistols. He KNOWS guns, he is a third generation gunsmith.

[delisle]

I have a Hi Point in 45 that I keep in my easy chair. It shoots accurately and is realible as my Smith or any of my Ruger Autos I have owned. I run Cor-Bons through my Hi Point.

When You use google You can find failure pics for just about any gun including Rugers and they are built like Tanks.

+100, the internet is full of fail and you can find pictures of anything you want to see.

[tebbiebear]

I have a Hi Point in 45 that I keep in my easy chair. It shoots accurately and is realible as my Smith or any of my Ruger Autos I have owned. I run Cor-Bons through my Hi Point.

When You use google You can find failure pics for just about any gun including Rugers and they are built like Tanks.

I didn't use Google. I personally know the person that happened to. Listen, Hi Point firearms are poorly made junk. This is plain for anyone with eyes, they are third rate designs made to second rate standards. They are on par with Jennings pocket pistols and the older Olympic Arms AR15s. JUNK. If you all want to own one then more power to you, it is after all a (semi) free country, but I do take umbrage with the idea that a Hi Point is in anyway on par or "as good as" a Glock, or Ruger, or S&W or Kel-Tech, or Remington or any of the other main line quality firearms manufacturers.

[bulldognation]

I own a .45 Hi-point and have never had any problem with it. The only disadvantage is that it is heavy as a cinder block. But if you have the arm strength to hold it, it shoots well. My brother owns one in
9mm as well, never had any problems either.

They have a good lifetime warranty. If anything on ever breaks, they will replace it or the whole gun, free of charge, no questions asked.

[bulldognation]

all guns can fail, most of the time it has something to do with the operator rather than the firearm.

I have shot a c9 hi point and my uncle is a huge gun collector and he recommended the hi point to me when i first started buying pistols. He knows guns, he is a third generation gunsmith.

+1

[flight567]

73, i have never heard of someone saying that it's to young to "own" a firearm. (aside from being say... 10 or younger...) but when i say that i want to "own" a firearm, i mean that i want it to be accesable to me, in my room, or on my person on the family property. if that means that the gun is to be signed over to my mother (won't ever use it unless ABSOLUTELY nessicary[no plinking and no practice]) then so be it, but i would like the gun to be in my room, the nice neighborhood i live in is quickely becoming not so nice. we have three drug dealers in the culdesac (not having been cought yet) across from my house, and a fourth down the street. and there have been a string of car-jackings recently. i'm not sure if this is an omen of things to come, or whether it's just a faze that all neighborhoods go through. and, if my dad (who has two shotguns, a lever-action a breech loader and two pistols [one semi-auto one revolver]) where living with us, i wouldn't want to "own" a gun, because i would probly have access to his (limited though it may be) and would most likel get to practice. however, this not being the case, i would like to own my own. thank you for your opinions and thank you for your polite presentation of them :) my friend alex is under 18 and has plenty of guns, all where givin to hi by his father. AND i have a retired police officer who is telling me that i'll be fine "owning" a gun. and was actually trying to convince my mom into getting one ofr me. once again, i thank you for your information, and will confirm what has been said through said retired police officer. thank you desile and deltaboy that is what i was asking from the begining:blush: whether or not they work and what "your" experience with them was.

[azmark]

If you want a good price on guns and don't mind a used one I recommend a pre owned law enforcement Glock. Usually the Glock 22 since it's the most popular model issued but you can pick them up for about $350 with two magazines and a case.

[73mountaineer]

73, i have never heard of someone saying that it's to young to "own" a firearm. (aside from being say... 10 or younger...) but when i say that i want to "own" a firearm, i mean that i want it to be accesable to me, in my room, or on my person on the family property. if that means that the gun is to be signed over to my mother (won't ever use it unless ABSOLUTELY nessicary[no plinking and no practice]) then so be it, but i would like the gun to be in my room, the nice neighborhood i live in is quickely becoming not so nice. we have three drug dealers in the culdesac (not having been cought yet) across from my house, and a fourth down the street. and there have been a string of car-jackings recently. i'm not sure if this is an omen of things to come, or whether it's just a faze that all neighborhoods go through. and, if my dad (who has two shotguns, a lever-action a breech loader and two pistols [one semi-auto one revolver]) where living with us, i wouldn't want to "own" a gun, because i would probly have access to his (limited though it may be) and would most likel get to practice. however, this not being the case, i would like to own my own. thank you for your opinions and thank you for your polite presentation of them :) my friend alex is under 18 and has plenty of guns, all where givin to hi by his father. AND i have a retired police officer who is telling me that i'll be fine "owning" a gun. and was actually trying to convince my mom into getting one ofr me. once again, i thank you for your information, and will confirm what has been said through said retired police officer. thank you desile and deltaboy that is what i was asking from the begining:blush: whether or not they work and what "your" experience with them was.

Here's the law in your state:

2923.21 Improperly furnishing firearms to a minor.
(A) No person shall do any of the following:
...
(3) Furnish any firearm to a person who is under eighteen years of age or, subject to division (B) of this section, furnish any handgun to a person who is under twenty-one years of age, except for lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes, including, but not limited to, instruction in firearms or handgun safety, care, handling, or marksmanship under the supervision or control of a responsible adult;
...
(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of improperly furnishing firearms to a minor, a felony of the fifth degree.
(the least severe of felony offenses in Ohio, but a felony nonetheless, punishable by 6-12 months in prison and/or a fine up to $2500)


The bottom line is that there is absolutely no way for you to legally obtain a firearm in the state of Ohio for the purpose that you want it for. So yes, you are too young to own a gun, both by statute and in my opinion.

Not to be rude, but the fact that a retired police officer thinks that it is ok matters not one bit to me. As a former police officer myself, I am fully aware of how to interpret the statute, and it states in no uncertain terms that anyone that gives you a firearm is committing a felony according to the laws of your state.

I won't get into a debate about it here, as apparently I am the only one that has a problem with a 15 year old kid keeping a pistol at hand for home defense. That said, I wouldn't advise anyone of any age with little to no experience with firearms and/or handguns to rely on a firearm for home/self defense.

This is absolutely not any type of indictment of you or your personal maturity level & I am glad that you seem to understand that. It is my personal opinion coupled with the legality of the issue according to Ohio statutes related to firearms. My opinion is just that, but the law is pretty black & white on this.

[orchestrion]

I think a 15 year old learning how to use a gun by shooting one of his father's firearms is one thing, but a 15 year old thinking he needs a pistol for home defense is completely different, and in this case I agree with Steve. OP, you've alluded to wanting a pistol that is "concealable." I hope you know that you need a license for concealed carry and to get that license you need to be 21. I'm sure you know that, but I feel like by owning and carrying a pistol at 15 you're just asking for a world of trouble, especially if you use it.

[rod251]

I own a Hi-Point C9. It has close to 1000 rounds through it with no problems. It stays by my bed and is my home defense handgun. I trust my life to it. They are affordable and have a lifetime no-questions-asked warranty. The goal of Hi-Point was to build a no-frills, reliable handgun that the average joe could afford, and they did just that. Many people bash them because of the price and the looks, but most of these folks have never owned or fired one. There was already one post in this thread by a non-owner bashing the brand. I thought long and hard before buying mine, and I looked at many other brands. I don't regret the Hi-Point for a second.

Now the cons: It won't win any beauty contests. It is not a sexy gun. It is a little heavy (which I actually like because it aids accuracy to some point). It's a little big to easily carry concealed. And with mine, accuracy is average at best, although good enough for self-defense. With my Smith & Wesson model 66, I can keep my shots in a 6" group at 50 yards. With the Hi-Point, it's more like a 6" group at 15 yards, maybe. But most defense situations are much closer than that.

The bottom line is if you want the Hi-Point, get it and get good with it. Just be sure to obey all laws while you're at it, and learn and practice all gun safety rules at all times.

[insomniac]

I think a 15 year old learning how to use a gun by shooting one of his father's firearms is one thing, but a 15 year old thinking he needs a pistol for home defense is completely different, and in this case I agree with Steve. Delta, you've alluded to wanting a pistol that is "concealable." I hope you know that you need a license for concealed carry and to get that license you need to be 21. I'm sure you know that, but I feel like by owning and carrying a pistol at 15 you're just asking for a world of trouble, especially if you use it.

+1. Please re-read this.

A few notes to flight567:
- It sounds like you have already made up your mind to get a HiPoint. I'm not sure why you are here if that is the case.
- It seems reasonably clear that you want to carry this gun and don't just want it for home defense. I don't get the impression that you are willing to learn the laws about what you can and can't do, judging from your disregarding of laws on possession of handguns by minors. That concerns me and a few others here.

You do realize that a gun is deadly force, and even pulling it out to "scare" someone can get you arrested, right? Have you taken a class, or read any books, on laws regarding self-defense in general? Heard of Massad Ayoob?

I strongly recommend that you re-think this.

[Matt S]

I am still new to guns myself. Didn't grow up with the guns in the house, and in NY it is a lot harder to buy one. I was shocked when I bought one in Virginia and I could have walked out of the shop with an AR after only showing my license and car registration.

Anyway, the only fire arm I've bought was for home defense and it was a shotgun made by Mossberg called the Maverick 88. It is apparently similar to the Mossberg 500, and for home defense, it is all I need. Inexpensive with an eight round capacity. If I fire off eight shells of 00 buckshot and I need more ammo, I'd have to find out which drug lord I pissed off.

I do want to get a pistol for carrying though, and while I have more resources to buy one, I wasn't looking to spend a ton of money either, and I love a deal. I've read the same stuff about Hi-Points, but when it comes down to it, I'd rather stick with a trusted name with a reputation for reliability when it comes to something I am going to carry for self defense. Certain things in life just demand spending the money on quality once, and a good gun will last a long time besides potentially be your best friend in a bad situation. A less life or death example is with something like a socket set. I could have gone cheap and saved some money, but I might need a new set in 10 years. I won't need to replace the Craftsman set I bought (or if I do, it is on Sears). So, shooting for fun? Sure, buy a Hi-Point. Personally, when I get serious about buying, I'll take a hard look at the S&W M&P Compact, Sig P239, Springfield XDm 3.8, and naturally Glock, all in 9MM. If a good deal was available, maybe I'd expand my scope to H&K, but they are on the higher end of the price spectrum. Ultimately I need to get to some ranges and test them out and see how they feel in my hand and holstered.

For my fiancee, we were looking at a S&W .38 for ease of use. Heck, I might just get a nice revolver too. Again, if I am in a scenario where I need more than six shots, I don't know what movie I landed in.

[gixxer]

Based on the other commentation here about the law and the OP's age I am not going to suggest an alternative firearm, however I am going to suggest to anybody reading this thread DO NOT get a Hi Point. My father has one and we have used it extensively at the range on several occasions. We have tried several different brands of ammo to include reloads, and it would stovepipe constantly (I know, lighter spring will fix this), and the firing pin would continuously not strike the primer hard enough to fire the weapon. And just in case you were wondering, the last thing we tried was reloads so the fault is not cause of improper charge measurement. And no we would not load them hotter cause we were already close to the max load suggested for that powder.

You get what you pay for, and like others pointed out, 3AM is not the time to realize you need customer service. Spend the money, get a proven brand and practice with your firearm.

[flycbyrd]

Iii
Here's the law in your state:

(the least severe of felony offenses in Ohio, but a felony nonetheless, punishable by 6-12 months in prison and/or a fine up to $2500)


The bottom line is that there is absolutely no way for you to legally obtain a firearm in the state of Ohio for the purpose that you want it for. So yes, you are too young to own a gun, both by statute and in my opinion.

Not to be rude, but the fact that a retired police officer thinks that it is ok matters not one bit to me. As a former police officer myself, I am fully aware of how to interpret the statute, and it states in no uncertain terms that anyone that gives you a firearm is committing a felony according to the laws of your state.

I won't get into a debate about it here, as apparently I am the only one that has a problem with a 15 year old kid keeping a pistol at hand for home defense. That said, I wouldn't advise anyone of any age with little to no experience with firearms and/or handguns to rely on a firearm for home/self defense.

This is absolutely not any type of indictment of you or your personal maturity level & I am glad that you seem to understand that. It is my personal opinion coupled with the legality of the issue according to Ohio statutes related to firearms. My opinion is just that, but the law is pretty black & white on this. Thank you for putting up there statutes, I now can say to the op I can no longer help you pick out a gun esp a pistol like I stated before a long time back in the thread I recommended a shot-gun a 870 youth model to be specific, under your state, heck under any state you can't even conceal carry on your property because you're the under the age, while you don't have to have a concealed weapons permit, you still have to be of legal age to carry it.

[flight567]

to answer the question about whether i have decided on the Hi-point or not, i havn't (no i'm not ignoring the law, hold on i'll get to it.) i just want to make sure that every firearm get's its fair viewing. secondly, the only reason to tak ewhat ever gun i do wind up chosing out of the house would be to take it to that range, i wouldn't like to carry it around or anything like that. ok, now to the law part. i understand. but the MAIN reason to buy this gun is for home defence, not to take it around or show it off. just incase one of the people (drug dealers,gang members what have you) decides to break into the house at 3am. and as a side note, it will be just like a 15 yr old going to a range to practice with his dad's pistol. i just want to make sure that i'm protected, and know how to use a firearm incase the need should arise. i would say that this would fall under the "educational purposed" mentioned in the statute, i will ask a judge how the statute is properly construed.

[insomniac]

. but the MAIN reason to buy this gun is for home defence, not to take it around or show it off. just incase one of the people (drug dealers,gang members what have you) decides to break into the house at 3am. and as a side note, it will be just like a 15 yr old going to a range to practice with his dad's pistol.

NO, IT WON'T. You aren't shooting at people when you're going to a range!

[binowatch]

Any suggestions about which gun to buy MUST be predicated on the potential owner/shooter obtaining the appropriate training-this includes safety, legality, morality, care and handling as well as marksmanship and, if wanted, self defense training. Ideally, that last training should include nonlethal and hand to hand techniques. This may sound like a lot but having a gun is a grave responsibility. There are many places to get this training, often at little cost (hunter's safety, Eddie Eagle from the NRA, etc.) Shooting is a great hobby, almost as good as classic shaving. Enjoy!

[flight567]

NO, IT WON'T. You aren't shooting at people when you're going to a range!

not in the home defence part, but in that the only time it will leave the house will be to take it to the range. accompanied my either my father or someone else who has been around firearms and used them.

when using a gun for self defence. it is my opinion that it should only be used if absolutely necissary. the only reason to use a firearm for self defence is when your life is in danger. a responsability that i do not take litely. a gun of any caliber is dangerouse. and that's very important to me. the ONLY two reasons for the gun that i will hopefull have are: to defend myself and my mom. or to go to the range. and plink around for a while. it then will be transported home and either cleaned or put back away.
oh yea, and then i found this

In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Additionally, the Court enumerated several longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession that it found were consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits State and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]
and yes, several longstanding restrictions where still allowed. BUT the fact remains that it is within my individual rights to carry a firearm for home defence.

[Miles]

Maybe this thread has run it's course.

[craig87c]

Maybe this thread has run it's course.

Yup yup! Gun rights is something that just cannot be argued rationally on the internet anymore without getting out of control. Might as well put the ol' thread out of its misery before it really gets painful.

[flight567]

agreed. i'm sorry the thread got out of hand.so, let's burry the thread and be done with it.

[73mountaineer]

oh yea, and then i found this

In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Additionally, the Court enumerated several longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession that it found were consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits State and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]
and yes, several longstanding restrictions where still allowed. BUT the fact remains that it is within my individual rights to carry a firearm for home defence.

No it is not. When you are of legal age, provided that you don't commit one of the many offenses that prohibit you from legally owning and using a firearm, then it will be within your legal rights to possess a firearm for home defense. The right to own a firearm can be taken away from you and can be otherwise restricted by factors such as age, permits, etc.

If you want to start citing court cases, we can certainly do that, but you also have to accept all of the restrictions that the Supreme Court has upheld in all of these cases. You don't get to cherry pick portions of rulings and other statements that only support your side of the argument. Go ahead and try to jump through all of the hoops that are required to legally exercise your right to bear arms in the city of Chicago, specifically handguns.

I am bowing out of this now because it is clear that this thread has gone completely off the rails. If you won't accept the simple fact that it is illegal for you to own a gun, and you start trying to twist your purpose for owning a gun to fit within the examples of lawful use at your age when it is obvious that it does not, then it is clear that you have stopped listening to rational counterpoints. The Ohio law is actually written pretty clearly and doesn't leave much gray area for interpretation. It doesn't matter why you own it, you just can't do it.

Not to mention that you started out living in a "pretty safe area" with no apparent immediate threats, but now all of a sudden we've got drug dealers, carjackers, and gang bangers running around :blink:

This argument isn't about 2nd Amendment rights. I fully support the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, but I also recognize that it does not apply to my 13 year old son, convicted felons, and other categories of individuals that are restricted from possession or ownership of firearms. The Supreme Court has not overturned those laws, and they are the only ones that are applicable in this example.

[joshmpdx]

Fella's im sorry im late to the game. There are too may complaints regarding this thread for it to be held open and with a cursory glance through some of these posts things have clearly gone too far.