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Leatherneck
02-10-2011, 08:50 AM
I've been looking for a conceal handgun. Guy I work with in the barber shop keeps a Glock 40 sub compact tucked.
We were at the gun shop looking around and I saw two compact .45s I really liked. Any personal experience on them would be appreciated.
The Springfield micro-compact, Kimber Ultra Carry II, and the Kimber Pro-Carry II.

I had to carry .45's in the Marines a long time ago, so it's not as if I'm unfamiliar with them.

In the 40 cal, I'm leaning hard toward the Sig 239. We were shooting 40s that day. Didn't even look at the 45's until after we were done shooting.

Thanks for any input.

Kev

Don Barbiere
02-10-2011, 08:52 AM
Sig :thumbup:

stobes21
02-10-2011, 08:57 AM
The 239 is an awesome gun. A bit big and definitely heavy for the capacity, but awesome nonetheless. And the extra heft definitely helps deal with the recoil.

No experience with those particular .45s. You might want to look into the ballistics of the .45acp out of a particularly short barrel though. It is a pretty slow round even out of a 5" barrel and would lose a fair bit of velocity out of a much shorter barrel. Personally I prefer CCW weapons without an external safety, so compact 1911s have never held much interest for me. But if that's what you want Kimber is generally known for producing a high quality pistol, so I'd go for it.

Mako72
02-10-2011, 08:59 AM
Shot the Procarrys alot and like the full size grip. Only Sig I own is the 226 which is to big for everyday carry. My carry gun is a Kahr P9 since 2003 and a K9 from '96 to 03. I would suggest checking out the Kahr pistols as they were pretty much designed ground up for CCW. The have them from 380-45.

www.kahr.com


Jay

Gravy
02-10-2011, 09:30 AM
I carry a P239 in .40 almost every day. The only change I made to the gun was to swap in Hogue finger groove grips. A very popular addition.

I still have an unused swappable .357Sig barrel for it but it shoots the .40 so accurately, I never bothered w/ it.

stobes21
02-10-2011, 09:40 AM
I carry a P239 in .40 almost every day. The only change I made to the gun was to swap in Hogue finger groove grips. A very popular addition.

I still have an unused swappable .357Sig barrel for it but it shoots the .40 so accurately, I never bothered w/ it.

I've actually shot the 239 in both calibers side by side and preferred the .357sig to the .40. The recoil on both was significant of course, but the .40 seemed to want to twist too. So to get the .40 version back on target I had to both bring it down and rotate my wrist to straighten the gun back out. The .357sig version did not twist like that. The recoil was straight up and back.

Gravy
02-10-2011, 10:00 AM
I've actually shot the 239 in both calibers side by side and preferred the .357sig to the .40. The recoil on both was significant of course, but the .40 seemed to want to twist too. So to get the .40 version back on target I had to both bring it down and rotate my wrist to straighten the gun back out. The .357sig version did not twist like that. The recoil was straight up and back.

The .357sig has a lot of fans, myself included. I have a 229 in .357sig that(when I can afford to) is fun to shoot. But I'm to the point where I actually shoot tighter groups w/ the smaller p239 in .40S&W. I'm not sure if its because I like the trigger better and that it's a single stack that fits my hand better, but w/ the hogue grips, I have no problems w/ the snappy 40.

I also use "medium" Slide Glide grease on the rails and found it hard to believe but it really feels like the stuff reduces felt recoil. W/o causing failures.

Edit: Of course, all of this would apply if I was shooting it in .357sig too but last time I went to buy it they were out so we shot .40 instead. Availability and price have kept it from the top of my list.

jkingrph
02-10-2011, 10:09 AM
I have one of the Kimber Ultra Carry models. Honestly it's a fantastic shooter, lightweight and very accurate.

I just never felt comfortable carrying cocked and locked (hammer back, round in the chamber and safety on), so I retired it to bedside duty and use a Para Ordanance PDA for carry. It's one their LDA, light double action only, models which except for the double action vs single action is almost identical to the Kimber. I carry it with a round in the chamber, safety on, same as any 1911 type, but hammer is down and has no spur to catch on anything. Trigger pull is much longer than the typical 1911, but with their mechanism is very light and easy to pull.

The Pontificator
02-10-2011, 10:11 AM
My favored CCW piece is a titanium S&W J-Frame revolver but when I carry a semi-auto it's a Glock.

The model 27 your friend owns is a fine piece of equipment. I've owned Glocks for many years and for a time was a certified armorer. They are just incredibly tough and reliable. They are also one of the few firearms that can be readily disassembled, maintained, and reassembled by persons with little or not gunsmithing skills (this includes detail stripping not just field stripping)

The only issue I have with minis is that because of the short grip they tend to "walk" out of your hand during rapid firing. Many aftermarket companies offer "pinky rests" (grip extensions) and magazine extensions none of which really work or they enlarge the grip reducing concealability.

GAP Enterprises in Gallup, NM has come up with an ingenious solution to the problem: a magazine floor plate extension that allows the "ring finger" to firmly lock into the grip. The grip on the firearm during draw and presentation is just awesome. Check it out:

www.concealablecontrol.com

Greg Pugh is a stand-up guy.

A mini-glock with night sights and GAP floorplates is an excellent choice.

jkingrph
02-10-2011, 10:24 AM
My favored CCW piece is a titanium S&W J-Frame revolver but when I carry a semi-auto it's a Glock.

The model 27 your friend owns is a fine piece of equipment. I've owned Glocks for many years and for a time was a certified armorer. They are just incredibly tough and reliable. They are also one of the few firearms that can be readily disassembled, maintained, and reassembled by persons with little or not gunsmithing skills (this includes detail stripping not just field stripping)

The only issue I have with minis is that because of the short grip they tend to "walk" out of your hand during rapid firing. Many aftermarket companies offer "pinky rests" (grip extensions) and magazine extensions none of which really work or they enlarge the grip reducing concealability.

GAP Enterprises in Gallup, NM has come up with an ingenious solution to the problem: a magazine floor plate extension that allows the "ring finger" to firmly lock into the grip. The grip on the firearm during draw and presentation is just awesome. Check it out:

www.concealablecontrol.com

Greg Pugh is a stand-up guy.

A mini-glock with night sights and GAP floorplates is an excellent choice.

I'm with you on the J frame. I have a hammerless, double action only, scandium framed model I use for summer pocket carry. It's so light and small that the hotter +p loads plain hurt my hand. I would prefer more weight but it is so light it does not pull my pants down like a heavier gun.

It's probably the most concealable and handiest gun I have.

Dustinl
02-10-2011, 11:10 AM
Have you considered a Para-Ordinace Warthog? I had the opportunity to shoot one of these last year and really liked it. The double-action seems to be especially smooth.

http://www.paraord.com/new/product_hawg.php


DL

Shave A Buck
02-10-2011, 04:44 PM
Stick with any mainstream manufacture and what feels go to you there after.
You will get many opinions but in the end anything mainstream will do just fine. Also look at factory support and warranty such as lifetime for Smith and Wesson products.

PedroNavaja
02-10-2011, 05:24 PM
Glock 26 9 mm

mcdesant
02-10-2011, 05:27 PM
i would suggest a sig p229 40cal. when you go to sub compact and compact with a .45 you dont have the accuracy you normaly do an there is quite a bit more kick

azmark
02-10-2011, 05:38 PM
I carry Springfields .45 compact and Kimbers CDP II both great guns. My wife just changed her off duty snubby .357 special to the Glock 36, wow what a neat pistol. I recommend staying away from any .45 GAP

PaulX608
02-10-2011, 05:50 PM
Being a larger gentleman(pronounced FAT GUY), I usually carry a full size 1911 IWB. I haven't tried a lot of compacts, but Para's WartHog was my favorite of the ones I tried. Generally, when I need UDC and reach for something small to carry, it's a DAO hammerless J-frame in a Galco tuckable.

binowatch
02-10-2011, 06:33 PM
Glock 37 is a nice single stack 45. The various Kimber carry models are excellent. I personally love the 220 in 45-incredibly accurate out of the box but a bit big for easy ccw. The Springfield XD compact in 45 is a terrific piece-a bit thick but rugged, goes bang every time, mine is very accurate, has a nice grip safety for carry. Lastly, my all time favorite for 45 carry is a Colt Commander, alloy frame or for a few more ounces the Combat Commander with steel frame. Slim, accurate, reliable, classy, classic-fast first shot when carried cocked and locked. If I had to pick one-that would be it.

RyanR
02-10-2011, 07:07 PM
I have two for CCW. I have a Taurus PT145. It's their sub-compact in a .45. It's a double stack and fits great in the hand and fun to shoot.

I also have a Ruger LCP in .380. It's small in the hand and not fun to shoot for long periods of time.

I carry the LCP almost exclusively. It's super light weight and easy to conceal. I wear shorts and a t-shirt almost every day in the summer in San Antonio. It gets really hot here. I have a real nice horse hide pocket holster for it. I just grab it and throw it in my front pocket. I almost forget it's there. A lot of people starting out make the mistake of not thinking about comfort and buy a big caliber sub-compact like me. Pretty soon you find excuses not to carry it. The most important thing is that you are carrying.

PaulX608
02-10-2011, 08:19 PM
I have two for CCW. I have a Taurus PT145. It's their sub-compact in a .45. It's a double stack and fits great in the hand and fun to shoot.

I also have a Ruger LCP in .380. It's small in the hand and not fun to shoot for long periods of time.

I carry the LCP almost exclusively. It's super light weight and easy to conceal. I wear shorts and a t-shirt almost every day in the summer in San Antonio. It gets really hot here. I have a real nice horse hide pocket holster for it. I just grab it and throw it in my front pocket. I almost forget it's there. A lot of people starting out make the mistake of not thinking about comfort and buy a big caliber sub-compact like me. Pretty soon you find excuses not to carry it. The most important thing is that you are carrying.

I carry every day, either openly or concealed depending on what I'm doing. Just choose a different piece and carry mode appropriate for my daily activities. I really like the LCP, but not a fan of the 9X17 round. If they ever decide to make it in 9X19, I'll buy one in a heartbeat. Ballistically, the 9X17 is fine, but there seems to be vastly more diverse ammo avaiable for the 9X19.

sharky007
02-10-2011, 10:13 PM
...45 cal. all day long!:thumbup1:

The Pontificator
02-11-2011, 04:54 PM
Guy I work with in the barber shop keeps a Flock 40 sub compact tucked.

Your co-worker is wise. In 1996 Frank Kelly, an 'old school' barber and customer Leon Poole were murdered in a downtown Columbia (SC) barbershop at SIX THIRTY IN THE MORNING by Felix Cheeseboro who had also just murdered a cab driver. Despite the fact that the Columbia Police Department bungled the case by accidentally melting down the murder weapon the state got a conviction and Cheeseboro is serving a life sentence.

BigFoot
03-16-2011, 10:23 PM
I carry Springfields .45 compact and Kimbers CDP II both great guns. My wife just changed her off duty snubby .357 special to the Glock 36, wow what a neat pistol. I recommend staying away from any .45 GAP

+1 on the GAP. I don't know but something about a cartridge designed for the compact Glock with the extreme pressure it generates to operate on par with the ACP just scares me.

I think the .45 ACP in any sub compact kicks so hard you need to shoot the hell out of it to have any sort of accuracy. Out of all my hand guns my favorite is my SIG P229 in .40. It is a bit big and heavy to carry unless it is winter and you can hide it under a coat. I have fired several thousand rounds through that pistol and it has never malfunctioned. That is impressive for a semi-auto. My favorite CCW is a Ruger LCP in .380. The cartridge is a bit light but if you would ever need it you are going to be shooting at a few feet. 3 or 4 Hydroshocks in rapid succession will do the trick. And really if you look at the ballistics it is not much lighter than a .38 special.

art803
03-16-2011, 10:33 PM
i would suggest a sig p229 40cal. when you go to sub compact and compact with a .45 you dont have the accuracy you normaly do an there is quite a bit more kick

I have the 229 in .40 and it is a great gun. I also have a kimber pro carry II and if you want a .45 you can't go wrong with it.

Topgumby
03-16-2011, 10:44 PM
Commander fan here, but I think all the firearms mentioned so far are good ones.

Just remember, the .380 or .38 snubby you have with you is a much better tool when you need it than the .45 or .40 that you left at home because it's a pain in the butt to lug around. Be realistic with what you are willing to put up with in regards to size, weight and inconvenience.

instpasr
03-16-2011, 11:00 PM
Commander fan here, but I think all the firearms mentioned so far are good ones.

Just remember, the .380 or .38 snubby you have with you is a much better tool when you need it than the .45 or .40 that you left at home because it's a pain in the butt to lug around. Be realistic with what you are willing to put up with in regards to size, weight and inconvenience.

.38 air weight snubby in the front pocket is easier to carry than a big ole .45 don't get me wrong I like my .45s but it's about concealment too.

ESTEBE VERDE
03-16-2011, 11:10 PM
I like the Sig 239.

Here is another guy's opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iac9WWUdOok

BigFoot
03-17-2011, 08:22 AM
Commander fan here, but I think all the firearms mentioned so far are good ones.

Just remember, the .380 or .38 snubby you have with you is a much better tool when you need it than the .45 or .40 that you left at home because it's a pain in the butt to lug around. Be realistic with what you are willing to put up with in regards to size, weight and inconvenience.

That is some great advice. A CCW does not do you any good at home. I put my LCP inside my waistband it conceals perfectly and you never know it is there.

kopio
03-17-2011, 08:43 AM
I have two for CCW. I have a Taurus PT145. It's their sub-compact in a .45. It's a double stack and fits great in the hand and fun to shoot.

I also have a Ruger LCP in .380. It's small in the hand and not fun to shoot for long periods of time.

I carry the LCP almost exclusively. It's super light weight and easy to conceal. I wear shorts and a t-shirt almost every day in the summer in San Antonio. It gets really hot here. I have a real nice horse hide pocket holster for it. I just grab it and throw it in my front pocket. I almost forget it's there. A lot of people starting out make the mistake of not thinking about comfort and buy a big caliber sub-compact like me. Pretty soon you find excuses not to carry it. The most important thing is that you are carrying.

+1 on both of these. I have the Taurus in 9mm and it is a good shooting, very compact gun for cc. My father has a LCP .380 and it goes with him everywhere in his front pocket. The one trick with the Taurus is to really spend some time at the range to get a good feel for it. It has a VERY short barrel, so it takes a little time to get used to shooting accurately with it. Lately however, I've been carrying my Ruger Service Six 357 revolver. It's very comfortable, but it is a bit heavy. Then again....I shoot money with it every time....been shooting it for over 30 years now!

stobes21
03-17-2011, 10:06 AM
Some great discussion here about the tradeoffs of big guns vs small guns for CCW. I want to add in though that a good holster and belt (a gun belt, not just your average department store belt) makes a huge difference in how comfortable and concealed your gun is. A good belt keeps the weight of the gun evenly distributed and makes it a lot easier to handle carrying around an all steel heavy pistol or revolver. I've never understood guys who will drop a grand or more on a pistol, laser, accessories, etc. for CCW and then insist on carrying in a cheap $10 nylon holster attached to a flimsy little belt.

My personal favorite holster is the Comp-Tac MTAC. It is rather pricey but it is tuckable, adjustable, incredibly comfortable, can come off and on without removing the belt, allows for one-handed reholstering, and keeps my gun in place no matter how I move around.

Gun belts are made by a number of different companies. If you're looking for a high quality and attractive belt I would go with a custom or semi custom maker like the Belt Man. Again it's expensive but will last forever and will make a huge difference in how comfortably and concealed you can carry.

waynejitsu
03-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Some great discussion here about the tradeoffs of big guns vs small guns for CCW. I want to add in though that a good holster and belt (a gun belt, not just your average department store belt) makes a huge difference in how comfortable and concealed your gun is. A good belt keeps the weight of the gun evenly distributed and makes it a lot easier to handle carrying around an all steel heavy pistol or revolver. I've never understood guys who will drop a grand or more on a pistol, laser, accessories, etc. for CCW and then insist on carrying in a cheap $10 nylon holster attached to a flimsy little belt.

My personal favorite holster is the Comp-Tac MTAC. It is rather pricey but it is tuckable, adjustable, incredibly comfortable, can come off and on without removing the belt, allows for one-handed reholstering, and keeps my gun in place no matter how I move around.

Gun belts are made by a number of different companies. If you're looking for a high quality and attractive belt I would go with a custom or semi custom maker like the Belt Man. Again it's expensive but will last forever and will make a huge difference in how comfortably and concealed you can carry.


Glad you posted that, you were the first to mention MANY important factors in carrying CCW.

Also want to add, guns- everyone has their favorite. At one time I would never..., Never..., NEVER carry a 9mm, however, ammo has come a long way since 20 or 30 years ago.
There is a LOT of debate between the 9mm, 40cal and 45cal and believe there will always be the same.
Get a brand name gun you can hit with, one that is reliable, one you can afford, small enough you will actually carry and one large enough it will do damage- Quickly.
I was known for carrying my custom built Colt Officers using a stock length magazine for concealment in a Bianchi or a Miami Vice shoulder holster. under one arm is the .45 and under the other had 2 extra mags with CM mags, 8 rounds each. At the time, Hydroshock and/or Safety Slugs, but since then, a lot of ammo has become a lot better at one shot stops.
On my strong side, I carried an IWB with a 38SP as back up and as last ditch, there was the 5th pocket made to carry a pocket watch in that was perfect for a NAA 22 5 shot revolver.

Back to 9mm vs 40cal vs 45ACP.
I preferred the 45ACP. I could get the rounds off fast, get back on target faster and is a joy to shoot (custom built).
My favorite to shoot is my 45 and my 22cal.
What YOU want is what YOU can shoot best with, most accurately and most safely.
Some can not handle the big bore of a 45ACP, others can not handle the fast snap of a 9mm. All guns are different, all the ammo is different, they all shoot and "feel" different. Just because one bullet is larger or because one is smaller, does not make it "easier" to shoot-
Case in point- You have a "bad guy" break in your home in the middle of the night, you can go for the "smaller 357" or the "larger 45". I would recommend the 45...,
Why?
The 357 is powerful, however, you will have a LOT of muzzle flash out the barrel and between the "jump" between the cylinder and barrel (now you have a bad guy in front of you and have night blindness). How many walls will it go through, even if you hit him on your first shot. Are there children in the next room? Neighbors across the street, etc?
The 45 is a big, slow bullet, most if not all the energy will be released in his body. You can buy pre-fragmented bullets, they will not go through a wall, flash-less powder so the muzzle flash does not blind you, etc, etc.

In picking a gun, keep in mind, you want the gun to "fit you". You want one easy to use, load and unload, one that is safe, fits your hand and points naturally for you.
You are going to want to do a LOT of target practice.
Remember, you can get almost 2x the amount of 9mm as you can 45 for the same price.
I love my 45, it is my favorite round and gun. "Cocked & locked" IS safe with training, but also remember, you do not want to train with one gun and then carry another. When using a gun, just like any other self defense devise, you want it to be "automatic". I am not talking of the gun, I am talking about YOU. You want to practice so much with the gun, it is now "muscle memory", that is where you do not have to "think" about what to do, you have trained so much with it, it is all automatic body movement.
Like learning to walk as a child. At first you have to think about it, you have to hold on to things, you need help at times, you fall, get back up and try again. With you or your family and friends, you do not have "time to think", you will only have time to react in a split second (action is faster than reaction). You want to find a good instructor and range so you can practice for an "unexpected occasion", so YOU can be ready.
At that time, you also have to..., HAVE TO think of ALL your surroundings, where a stray bullet may go- either yours or his. If you decide to go hand to hand, what direction will his bullet go..., will it hit your wife? Surrounding bystanders? Your children? Your friends, etc, etc.
There is a LOT MORE to think about and a LOT MORE responsibility to it than "I have a gun, I will get the bad guy if he tries messing with me or us".
There is a LOT to think about, a LOT of practice (it is not like TV where you can just point, shoot and the bad guy drops). Most cases, even trained people (police, etc) WILL miss his/her intended target. Why? Lots of reasons, but several are adrenaline, nervous, scared, etc, etc.

IMO, best advise-
Go to some basic classes, get familiar with the different types of handguns and ammo.
Go to several gun stores where you are allowed to handle the guns, get instruction on how each works and feels.
See what type of concealment holsters are available.
Try them in store, see what will work best for you.
Cold weather you will need a different set up than for hot weather. Will YOU be able to wear it all day- comfortably AND be able to get to it (gun) quickly and SAFELY when/if the time comes?

This is definitely not all inclusive, just a few things to think about when talking "self/family defense"
-----------------------------------------------------------

that L do pig
03-17-2011, 01:40 PM
H&K USP Compact

Gustav Halbach
03-17-2011, 02:26 PM
And the answer is: Colt Defender.

Can't go wrong with a .45 Pony.

-G

waynejitsu
03-17-2011, 04:33 PM
And the answer is: Colt Defender.

Can't go wrong with a .45 Pony.

-G

(others)- "yeah, but with such a short barrel the hollow point bullet may not expand because the bullet will be going so slow, unlike a faster 9mm or (pick your poison:)"

(me)- "My 45 is "expanded" when it comes out of the barrel as much as many hope the smaller calibers will expand to under the best of conditions"
I do not worry about expansion, it is almost 1/2" when it exits the barrel. I am not worried as much about over penetration and hitting innocent people that may be around, either behind the "bad guy", next to him or on the other side of a wall.
ALL the 45's energy is expelled inside the bad guy. I do not need nor do I want an exit hole.

I am not saying the 45 is all there is, but given the choice of getting shot with a smaller caliber or larger caliber handgun, I would pick the smaller one every time. As an example (true life experiences), when I go to the Dr., I always ask "can't you use a smaller needle", LOL!! (Seriously), if it is going inside, I want small:)
(yeah, I know, rifles are different than handguns, ballistics are different, speed makes a difference, etc., unfortunately I am not able to conceal an M16 or AF15 or M4, but given the velocities and bullet size of handguns, if it is me getting hit, I would prefer small over large every time (all things being equal):tongue_sm

simon1
03-17-2011, 05:03 PM
Gl
IMO, best advise-
Go to some basic classes, get familiar with the different types of handguns and ammo.
Go to several gun stores where you are allowed to handle the guns, get instruction on how each works and feels.
See what type of concealment holsters are available.
Try them in store, see what will work best for you.
Cold weather you will need a different set up than for hot weather. Will YOU be able to wear it all day- comfortably AND be able to get to it (gun) quickly and SAFELY when/if the time comes?

This is definitely not all inclusive, just a few things to think about when talking "self/family defense"
-----------------------------------------------------------

I like your train of thought...training is the most important part.

Personally, I don't like anything below .40 cal.

But...sometimes I carry my Walther TPH .22 in a front pocket; it's lighter than my .40 AMT DAO Backup. The Walther works every time and so does the AMT but, the Walther is lighter.

The .22 is better than throwing rocks, maybe.

Better to have one and not need it....:laugh:

Blue Raccoon
03-17-2011, 07:46 PM
unless you are a really big boy concealing a 45/40/357/9 would be a real chore particularly in summer. S&W J frame airlite 38+p in a Forbus behind your hip works with any untucked shirt or a KelTec P3AT in any pocket also works.

waynejitsu
03-18-2011, 01:25 PM
unless you are a really big boy concealing a 45/40/357/9 would be a real chore particularly in summer. S&W J frame airlite 38+p in a Forbus behind your hip works with any untucked shirt or a KelTec P3AT in any pocket also works.

20 - 25 years ago I was under weight at about 125 - 130lbs and had no trouble at all concealing a 45, 38 AND a NAA mini revolver..., all at the same time. Going to the mall, the bank, jewelry stores, etc, etc. No one EVER saw my gun or an outline of a gun. You have to remember, -
1- you get what you pay for in most cases
2- you will not be concealing very good with an "Uncle Mikes" or other inexpensive (cheap) holster.
3- Like with the gun, you also have to practice with the holster. Where does it feel best, where does it hide best, where can I wear it all day and not get fatigued, etc.
Not only do you need to know your gun, how it functions, the ammo, it's limitations, etc., but you also NEED to know how to conceal your weapon AND get to it when needed, even it that means having a custom holster made or having semi custom holsters. All the thought seems to be placed on bullet and gun, however, the holster is also part of the "system" and if you need custom, so be it. My gun is custom, my holster is custom, my loads are all factory loads for self defense.
(ex., you can not be walking around Wal-Mart, bend over to look at something without your weapon of choice showing or worse, coming out). You can not expect to carry a 45 concealed using a duty holster. It was NOT designed for that mode of carry.
Just like shoes, shirts, pants, etc. You "HAVE TO" get a gun and carry/conceal "system" that "fits YOU". You have to try several..., many systems of carry until you figure what works best for you..., on you, when wearing it.
Making sure it will conceal under ALL circumstances, making sure the weapon will not fall out if you bend over, sit down, climb, etc. Also making sure you can get to said weapon of choice when/if it is needed without having to look, dig and find it. We have more gun and holster combination's and options now than ever before in history and we are blesses to have as many custom holster makers now that actually fit it to your body, like a custom made suite. All the years, no one has ever notices- "hey mommy, that man has a gun", LOL!!

1- Practice
2- Train (with professionals, not Joe Blow down the road)
3- Use a mirror
4- Get professional opinions
5- Wear it (holster, gun, extra mags) around the house to get used to it before taking it out with you to a store, etc. You FIRST have to be comfortable with it, confident with it and efficient with it.
6- Try (only quality) holsters..., shoulder holsters- (at 125 - 130 pounds at the time, I could put mine on, stand sideways and you did not know I had a gun, you could not see it or the gun), of course, to go out, I either had a coat or over-shirt. It fit so perfect, I never worried about being seen in it, it concealed "that good".
The 38 was an IWB holster and I can walk around with just a T-Shirt and no one will ever spot it
The 5 shot mini NAA revolver fit in my 5th pocket perfectly.

It is how much time and training you put into this is what you will get out of it. Like ANYTHING ELSE, you have to
Practice and train..., that is, if you want to get good at it and have the knowledge and confidence when the time comes to use it (I say "when" as things in the US are getting worse- in record time), you have to do your part...,
I know the saying is old, but-
"Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you":thumbup:

Jurist
03-18-2011, 02:49 PM
I run a Springfield XD45 compact for CCW. However, before I got a dedicated CCW rig I used to run a Glock 35. Sometimes being a bigger guy has its advantages.

Blue Raccoon
03-18-2011, 03:38 PM
20 - 25 years ago I was under weight at about 125 - 130lbs and had no trouble at all concealing a 45, 38 AND a NAA mini revolver..., all at the same time. Going to the mall, the bank, jewelry stores, etc, etc. No one EVER saw my gun or an outline of a gun. You have to remember, -
1- you get what you pay for in most cases
2- you will not be concealing very good with an "Uncle Mikes" or other inexpensive (cheap) holster.
3- Like with the gun, you also have to practice with the holster. Where does it feel best, where does it hide best, where can I wear it all day and not get fatigued, etc.
Not only do you need to know your gun, how it functions, the ammo, it's limitations, etc., but you also NEED to know how to conceal your weapon AND get to it when needed, even it that means having a custom holster made or having semi custom holsters. All the thought seems to be placed on bullet and gun, however, the holster is also part of the "system" and if you need custom, so be it. My gun is custom, my holster is custom, my loads are all factory loads for self defense.
(ex., you can not be walking around Wal-Mart, bend over to look at something without your weapon of choice showing or worse, coming out). You can not expect to carry a 45 concealed using a duty holster. It was NOT designed for that mode of carry.
Just like shoes, shirts, pants, etc. You "HAVE TO" get a gun and carry/conceal "system" that "fits YOU". You have to try several..., many systems of carry until you figure what works best for you..., on you, when wearing it.
Making sure it will conceal under ALL circumstances, making sure the weapon will not fall out if you bend over, sit down, climb, etc. Also making sure you can get to said weapon of choice when/if it is needed without having to look, dig and find it. We have more gun and holster combination's and options now than ever before in history and we are blesses to have as many custom holster makers now that actually fit it to your body, like a custom made suite. All the years, no one has ever notices- "hey mommy, that man has a gun", LOL!!

1- Practice
2- Train (with professionals, not Joe Blow down the road)
3- Use a mirror
4- Get professional opinions
5- Wear it (holster, gun, extra mags) around the house to get used to it before taking it out with you to a store, etc. You FIRST have to be comfortable with it, confident with it and efficient with it.
6- Try (only quality) holsters..., shoulder holsters- (at 125 - 130 pounds at the time, I could put mine on, stand sideways and you did not know I had a gun, you could not see it or the gun), of course, to go out, I either had a coat or over-shirt. It fit so perfect, I never worried about being seen in it, it concealed "that good".
The 38 was an IWB holster and I can walk around with just a T-Shirt and no one will ever spot it
The 5 shot mini NAA revolver fit in my 5th pocket perfectly.

It is how much time and training you put into this is what you will get out of it. Like ANYTHING ELSE, you have to
Practice and train..., that is, if you want to get good at it and have the knowledge and confidence when the time comes to use it (I say "when" as things in the US are getting worse- in record time), you have to do your part...,
I know the saying is old, but-
"Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you":thumbup:

If I'm wearing a winter coat or a sport coat I could conceal whatever floats my boat.. I don't care how much you pay for a rig hauling around a 2# plus pistol in 90 degree heat and 90% humi.. I'll bet if a guy would need a gun he either left it at home or in the car.

BTW, if I had to have that much fire power just walking around I would seriously consider moving.

Grumpy_Bottom
03-18-2011, 03:55 PM
And the answer is: Colt Defender.

Can't go wrong with a .45 Pony.

-G

This, all day long. I have over 2k rounds through my Defender, it has some upgrades, but after a single issue with the ejector in the first 8 rounds (MIM defect), I haven't had a single FTF or FTE. I carry with a Milt Sparks VMII, and I've never, ever had anyone call me on printing. I'm 6' 230lbs, and I carry 2 spare clips on the other side of my belt, again, no printing. Rumors about the kick of the 3" .45's are greatly exaggerated, I routinely give this gun to newbies to shoot and they are routinely amazed at how easy it is to put on target, and easy to shoot. It eats anything I feed it, hardball, jhp, 230 grain, 185 grain, I avoid +p because I see no need for it. I can't recommend the Colt product enough - I even carry the Defender in preference of a Wesson CBOB because the Defender feeds better on a regular basis. It may not knock out the 1.5" groupings the CBOB does, but it also never goofs.

Grumpy_Bottom
03-18-2011, 03:56 PM
If I'm wearing a winter coat or a sport coat I could conceal whatever floats my boat.. I don't care how much you pay for a rig hauling around a 2# plus pistol in 90 degree heat and 90% humi.. I'll bet if a guy would need a gun he either left it at home or in the car.

BTW, if I had to have that much fire power just walking around I would seriously consider moving.

Sorry, this isn't true, I wear shorts or jeans in FL depending on season, and shortsleeve button down dickies year round with no trouble. And many of us carry because of our work, not where we live.

waynejitsu
03-18-2011, 06:15 PM
Sorry, this isn't true, I wear shorts or jeans in FL depending on season, and shortsleeve button down dickies year round with no trouble. And many of us carry because of our work, not where we live.

very, Very, VERY Well said:thumbup:

I never understood how people that have never done something, never had to and have no experience with (whatever the subject may be) seem to know everything there is to know about the subject..., what you can do, what you can not do, what will work, what will not work, etc, etc, etc.,
But on the other hand, the person that does have experience, training, knowledge etc. on (said subject) and uses it on a daily basis seems to know nothing about it and only arm chair warriors have an answer and it can only work one way or not at all.
You have to remember, 12 months out of the year I wore a custom Colt 45ACP and 2 extra magazines, a 38sp and a 5 shot 22 Naa mini revolver. 3 guns, 2 extra mags and only needed a pair of pants, long or short, a T-shirt and a button down shirt that was for the most of the time left open (unless it was very windy at the time and this was with technology of 20 - 25 years ago. There is a lot nicer, easier to hide holsters now than there was back then.
No one ever saw a gun, an outline of a gun or even had any idea I had a gun (much less 3 + 2 extra mags.)

Why so much?
The same reason I have a fire extinguisher and fire alarm in almost every room. It is ONLY a piece of emergency equipment.
You hope you never need it. You hope you never have to use it..., HOWEVER- "if" you do "need" it, it is there. It is ready to be used. It is all bigger and more than "needed"..., However, I would much rather have extra equipment that I did not need and did not have to use than to need it and not only not have it, but know you "could have" used what you have and it is somewhere else, like in a safe, under a pillow, etc because it was "too hot" or "too cold" or "too heavy" or "today everything feels good".
It is an emergency piece of equipment, the fire extinguisher, the fire alarm, the gun, holster and ammo.
They may sit as long as you live, in one place, never used, so would it be a waste of money or is it more like insurance, buying yourself piece of mind?
Would it be better to have something and not need it than to need it and not have it? I prefer to go the way of safe, prepared, ready than to be on the list of "let's just hope for the best".
Today, how the world is, you can not..., I say again, YOU CAN NOT be "Too" prepared.
If you do not ever need "something- whatever it may be, but you have it "if needed", you are prepared. But as soon as you need it and do not have it, who will be the one to pay the consequences?
You? Your wife? Mother? Kids? Best friend? Neighbor? People standing around?

IMO..., again, it is "MY Opinion" (and everyone can have their own, they can have a different one, the same one or something totally different). When the "you know what" hits the fan, I would like to be as prepared as I can and if it means I have to carry a whole extra 2 or 3 pounds, well, to me it is worth it to be "prepared" (I also have a lighter, matches, water, band aids and just a whole lot of stuff I hope I will never need or use, but today's statistic proves that most of us are going to need some type of emergency equipment and some emergency help..., but who? ..., and what will they need? ..., when will it be needed?

My last thought- Is it not better to be prepared and not need it than to need and not have (especially when you think a million times- AFTER the fact "I wish I would have...," (whatever it is).

Being ready and being prepared is not paranoia, today, it is a fact of life and just a matter of time.:blush:

Blue Raccoon
03-19-2011, 12:52 PM
whatever.. I was answering the OP who didn't seem all that experienced. Not sure why you would need to carry concealed if it's for work? i suppose undercover leo, private security, etc.. but, I assumed the OP wasn''t carrying professionally or he wouldn't be asking on a shave forum. that's why they make so many didn't firearms so everyone can carry whatever does it for them.

BTW, how do you know what anyone has or has not done? you boys have fun beating your chest and proclaiming yours is better than everyone else's.

twistedfinn967
03-23-2011, 04:08 PM
Springfield Armory Ultra Compact. Very happy with it! :thumbup:

Grumpy_Bottom
03-23-2011, 05:44 PM
whatever.. I was answering the OP who didn't seem all that experienced. Not sure why you would need to carry concealed if it's for work? i suppose undercover leo, private security, etc.. but, I assumed the OP wasn''t carrying professionally or he wouldn't be asking on a shave forum. that's why they make so many didn't firearms so everyone can carry whatever does it for them.

BTW, how do you know what anyone has or has not done? you boys have fun beating your chest and proclaiming yours is better than everyone else's.
Because I sell expensive things that unpleasant people might want to take from me by force?

ESTEBE VERDE
03-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Because I sell expensive things that unpleasant people might want to take from me by force?

There are many many many reasons why one would need a firearm for work.

Police, Military, Jeweler, Money Changer, Bankers...

ESTEBE VERDE
03-23-2011, 09:34 PM
... that's why they make so many different firearms so everyone can carry whatever does it for them.

.. :thumbup1:

malocchio
03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
I think the glock 27 is perfect for cc....very small,very accurate,loaded with the proper bullets a very capable vermin stopper,but most of all,as elmer keith's testing crew found out awhile back,it's the most reliable semi-auto out there.....if I wanted anything more reliable I would carry a colt snubnose agent ,loaded with hollowpoints....only 6 shots,but it works every time you drop the hammer..

Leatherneck
03-24-2011, 09:27 AM
I've been reading and considering all the posts since I started this thread. Thank-you all for your insight.

A little background. I learned to shoot and handle a handgun in the Marines as an MP. Then we carried Colt .45. Did that and infantry for 8 yrs.
Later I became a cop and we carried .357 revolvers and later the S&W 4516. Off duty, I carried those as well. That was another 7 yrs. of experience.

So I do have some experience with handguns. I've been away from law enforcement for quite some time and frankly, away from guns also.

So now the work environment has changed and I'm a barber. Injuries prevent me from doing my previous job.

As to why anyone would need to carry at work. The shop I work in is in the borderline "hood". Not a bad location, but certainly not ideal, either. We have every walk of life come in, from attorneys and doctors to cops and firemen, retired folks to school kids. We also, however, have the crackheads and drug dealers, people laid off and some who have no desire to work. The common denominator is that they all get their hair cut.

This is a cash business. Sometimes, on a busy day, lots of cash. For about half the year when we go to work or leave, it's dark. We have a bar, liquor store, and discount tobacco store on the other corners. For some reason (?) people like hanging out in those areas.

Last week we had a couple guys walk in trying to sell cologne out of cardboard boxes. Hmmm. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of hard working people in the area. They aren't the ones we're worried about. It's the opportunistic clown who for some reason may decide to bounce in and get some fast cash that we worry about.

Until I make a final decision, a police friend of mine has loaned me a S&W airweight .38 that fits in my back pocket just fine. Since the top of my trousers are covered by a shirt and/or smock, no one sees it. So I am in no great rush or undue pressure to buy something tomorrow.

I just wish the gun shop with the range wasn't in another town and had a wider variety of guns to try.

So, thank-you all for your opinions and at a few points, lively debate. Lots to consider.

Kev

binowatch
03-24-2011, 09:51 AM
Years ago there was a combined barber shop/gunstore near where I live. You could even go into the back room and try the gun, shooting into a huge stump!! I would oogle the guns while waiting for the haircut. Sadly, he retired and closed the shops.

mustachio
03-25-2011, 10:20 AM
I live in florida and carry everyday. I either have a Beretta 22a in 22lr if I just run to the store. Mostly, I carry a Kahr PM9 or a S&W 637. I recently acquired a Rock Island compact .45. I will be carrying that soon. Here are some pics.

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/handlebar/IMG_1439.jpg

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/handlebar/IMG_1434.jpg

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/handlebar/IMG_1433.jpg

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/handlebar/cerama-coatfulllegt.jpg

Aku Aku
03-30-2011, 05:25 PM
Commander fan here, but I think all the firearms mentioned so far are good ones.

Just remember, the .380 or .38 snubby you have with you is a much better tool when you need it than the .45 or .40 that you left at home because it's a pain in the butt to lug around. Be realistic with what you are willing to put up with in regards to size, weight and inconvenience.

So true. At first you may deal with the uncomfortable larger more powerful firearm, but over time it becomes a hassle and eventually it gets left behind due to weight and size. Then it is of very little use. The .380 offers a wide variety of choices and not-so insubstantial ammunition. Most CWC folk would not feel comfortable with anything smaller than the .380 ammo.

My CWC is a Walther PPK/S in .380 (Interarms version). Personally I want a handgun that is accurate, reliable, can quickly field strip sans tools and the PPK does all this well. There are many other fine specimens and I also like the Sig P232 and its predecessor the P230. In the end, the quality and craftsmanship of the firearm are the most important factors. When you pull the trigger it had better go bang.

jkingrph
04-03-2011, 07:53 AM
Have you considered a Para-Ordinace Warthog? I had the opportunity to shoot one of these last year and really liked it. The double-action seems to be especially smooth.

http://www.paraord.com/new/product_hawg.php


DL


I had an earlier version, called the P-10 in stainless. It was first very heavy when empty much less loaded with ten rounds. Second that short grip although very wide, ate the palm of my hand up. The bottom corner would just dig in and hurt. I got rid of it and got an alloy frame Kimber ultra carry, and later a Para PDA/LDA, same size and weight as the Kimber but double action.

I just followed your link and did some looking to verify something. THe Hawg series is single, not double action. The Para models that are double action have the suffix LDA after the name/model.

buddydog
05-03-2011, 07:04 PM
I use this one,not too compact though.....

Works for me.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/andycat_photos/P1060368.jpghttp://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p311/andycat_photos/P1060369.jpg

malocchio
05-03-2011, 07:36 PM
I'm with you on the J frame. I have a hammerless, double action only, scandium framed model I use for summer pocket carry. It's so light and small that the hotter +p loads plain hurt my hand. I would prefer more weight but it is so light it does not pull my pants down like a heavier gun.

It's probably the most concealable and handiest gun I have.

My choice is a snub nose colt agent with factory hammer shroud,6 rounds instead of 5,only a fraction of an inch wider at cylinder,will function for short times with plus p,the single action pull was like butter from the factory !...cylinder turns to the right ,instead of the left..I keep 4 rounds of extreme shock "energy transfer" ammo up front,and the last two to fire are cci hollow points

aceinyerface
05-03-2011, 10:01 PM
I've been looking for a conceal handgun. Guy I work with in the barber shop keeps a Glock 40 sub compact tucked.
We were at the gun shop looking around and I saw two compact .45s I really liked. Any personal experience on them would be appreciated.
The Springfield micro-compact, Kimber Ultra Carry II, and the Kimber Pro-Carry II.

I had to carry .45's in the Marines a long time ago, so it's not as if I'm unfamiliar with them.

In the 40 cal, I'm leaning hard toward the Sig 239. We were shooting 40s that day. Didn't even look at the 45's until after we were done shooting.

Thanks for any input.

Kev

Carrying is about weight. The more weight you carry, the faster you tire. If you ever get home thinking "my feet/back/knees/etc" hurt, you will think it even more so and you will start to blame the hurt on the firearm. A lot of people cave in and stop carrying. Or just keep buying firearms until they find something they like.

Lets see a few firearms and their weights-

The new Ruger 1911 is 43oz, plus 6.7oz for 8rds is 49.7oz or 3.1lbs

I used to carry a Glock 22 every day, 23oz plus 12oz for 15 rounds=35oz. 2.1lbs

My wife's XD9sc is 26oz, 31.4oz loaded with 10 rounds = 1.96lbs. She carries all day with no problem (511 gun belt and serpa holster)

I have my eye on the new LC9, 17.1oz, loaded with 7rds is 20.9oz or 1.3lb.

Kimber Ultra Carry II- 25oz, plus 5.9oz for 7rds is 30.9oz or 1.93lb.

Glock 26 is 19.75oz plus 6.35oz for 10rds 9mm is 26.1oz or 1.63lbs

Glock 27 is 19.75oz plus 7.23oz for 9rds .40 is 26.98oz or 1.69lbs This is what your friend carries.

Kimber Pro Carry II 28oz plus 5.9oz for 7rds is 33.9oz or 2.11lbs

SIG 239 is 29.5oz plus 5.6oz for 7rds .40 is 35.1oz or 2.19lbs

Cant seem to find the specs on the Springfield.

MASSDRIVER
05-03-2011, 10:12 PM
Here is my Para Nite-Hawg. 10 rounds of double-stack .45, so it has plenty of ass.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww147/jbcophotos/photo6.jpg
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww147/jbcophotos/photo18-1.jpg
I like it but if you don't like blast and noise, this ain't the heater for you.
I won't call it ideal, but so far there is no better way to get so many big holes in something in such a compact package.
This was part of my "parts" while on the motorcycle. Just kept it in my jacket pocket.http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww147/jbcophotos/DSCN0295.jpg

Brent.

aceinyerface
05-03-2011, 10:29 PM
Brent,

I am a flashlight junkie, as well. What is that you got there?

MASSDRIVER
05-03-2011, 11:55 PM
Ace, that's a Streamlight Twin-task that I have had going on 6 years now I think.
It has an incandescent as well as LED light. I can't say I recommend it though, as it seems to eat batteries, plus it's old tech so it doesn't really throw a lot of light. But it won't die dammit, and that's keeping me from the surefire, either the VTAC version, or the ED2.
I have a Streamlight Sidewinder that I sometimes carry too, but it works much better clipped to my pack rather than a pocket light.
I kinda hpped on that Streamlight bus sometime back before I discovered Surefire.
Brent.

aceinyerface
05-04-2011, 12:47 AM
We are about to hijack this thread, I'll start a new one for flashlights.

Leatherneck
08-01-2011, 06:46 PM
UPDATE

I finally made my decision and bought a 1911 style Springfield EMP, 40 cal. Very comfortable in my hand and not heavy (to me). Bought it a couple weeks ago.

I finally got to the range (indoor) today for my famfire and some practice. This gun is very comfortable to shoot. Everything was going great until I notice the front site ramp had shifted to the left, half way off the slide. After my WTH moment, I secured the weapon and slid the front site right out of the dovetail on the slide. Hmmm..... So, after I secured the front site ramp, I finished my boxes of rounds, sans sight.

Other that the site thing, the gun performed flawlessly. Granted, only a hundred rounds, but it's a start.

I can't talk to you about groupings. This indoor range uses steel knock down or spinning targets, not paper.

Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase. Thanks for all your suggestions and advice.

I guess I'll be a callin' Springfield in the mornin'.

OkieStubble
08-01-2011, 07:50 PM
I was just reading an ad about the EMP just today! Very nice gun Leatherneck. I am a veteran police officer in Oklahoma, and have owned many different type of guns. It kind of makes me chuckle when I see people argue about brands, types, calibers and ballistics. My wife has her CCW because she is a Retail Manager and makes night drops at the bank. She carries a Ruger LCP in 380.

Most gun fights, especially self defense situations, are under 3 seconds and between 7 yards and point blank range, with multiple shots fired. Carry the gun you like people. Carry the caliber you want, like, and are comfortable with and know you will hit the target with. .45 to .22 people, it really is about shot placement. shoot until the threat has stopped. Remember, self defense is just that, anything further than you grabbing a hand full of hair of an attacker, and shoving the gun into their neck is going to be decided if it is justifiable homicide by a jury of your peers. The jury room is an unpredictable thing people, know this.

.45 is a large bullet. Shoot until the threat stops. a .380 is a small bullet. shoot until the threat stops. The .380 killed Tupac & Biggie. Hell, I don't want to get shot with a BB gun in my pinkie toe... :)

Remember the old adage: Beware of the man with just one gun... He probably knows how to use it.

Godan
08-02-2011, 05:48 AM
Everything OkieStubble says is true. To it, I would add the absolute requirement of practice. Handgun skills have the shelf life of bananas. The weapon is a bullet delivery machine. How accurately the bullets are delivered depends on the shooter. The shooter's performance depends on practice.

LittleLebowski
08-02-2011, 07:53 AM
I'd get the S&W M&P 45 as reviewed by the 1911 gunsmith Hilton Yam here (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=70865&page=all).

LittleLebowski
08-02-2011, 07:58 AM
Everything OkieStubble says is true. To it, I would add the absolute requirement of practice. Handgun skills have the shelf life of bananas. The weapon is a bullet delivery machine. How accurately the bullets are delivered depends on the shooter. The shooter's performance depends on practice.

Very, very well said. Your groups will double in real life.

plpenn
08-02-2011, 08:08 AM
.45's are slow I like a .380 for the size (they just disappear in a pocket!) but for a larger gun I would go with a XDM .40 sub compact. They are accurate, small, interchangeable spines, lots of bolt on's (lights, sights, pressure switches) and mine has never failed me. If you shoot a .45 and a .40 at the same time at a target 50 yards away you can clearly hear and see the .40 hit first. They are both big and do a lot of damage but I think there are many more benefits to the .40. With all that being said like others said you MUST be comfortable and accurate with what you carry.

petr
08-02-2011, 08:10 AM
If you want to actually carry a 45, the glock 36 is my choice. single stack, light, it melts away and shoots amazingly well. I can drill even at the 25 yard line.

the 1911's are going to be heavy as you know, unless you go with an aluminum fram cdp kimber, which is also a joy to carry and shoot. It does sting a bit in the hand when shot, but it's a sweetheart.

These are my two choices. I use the g36 the most. Good luck.

LittleLebowski
08-02-2011, 08:10 AM
There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

Godan
08-02-2011, 09:36 AM
There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

We agree on many matters. As for specifics, I usually require that students who want training beyond my basic CCW course practice with 100 rds every month and much safe dry fire. It is not ideal. Your figure of 200 rds a month is better. However, many of my students are lawyers, doctors, academics, businessmen, etc., and they can do this with two boxes of ammo in an hour at one of two convenient indoor ranges. When they show up for an intermediate course, I can always tell if they have been practicing the minimum, and we either go ahead or not, accordingly. You are right in that modern ammo diminishes to insignificance the differences among serious calibers. What is so hard to convey, and we see that failure here often, is the need for constant practice. Although beginners would wish differently, it is not about having your shiny new Belchfire .45 in an impressive holster. It is about taking the weapon out frequently and practicing with it.

5 over
08-02-2011, 09:50 AM
I've gotta throw in my vote for the Kimber, especially if it's one of their custom shop numbers. Great fit and finish, fine trigger, and as you say it's not as if you're unfamiliar with the 1911. Simplicity of use is a huge plus. Get a well designed thumb-snap holster with the strap positioned over the rear of the slide (blocking the hammer's trajectory), and cocked and locked carry shouldn't be either unsafe or a big issue. It's what I carry in a .45 when I don't use my first variation HK P7 in 9mm.
Now there's an utterly safe firearm.

Ford

binowatch
08-02-2011, 10:05 AM
There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

Very true-with modern ammunition the terminal effectiveness of 9, 40, 45 are almost the same. This is not true with FMJ-but why carry FMJ if your gun shoots modern HPs? For 45 I like my Colt Commander but of the three calibers I most often carry a Kahr PM9 with Gold Dot 124 non+P HP. Effective, accurate, compact but not to small to have trouble handling, controllable for follow up shots. When I can't conceal that then my NAA Pug in 22 mag or a Sig 238 lightweight in 380 do duty.

OkieStubble
08-02-2011, 11:37 AM
There are no appreciable differences when using quality defensive ammunition between .40, .45 ACP, and 9mm. Carry what you are comfortable with and can afford to practice with. If you can't afford to practice at least 200 rds a month with your .45, time to go to almost 50% cheaper 9mm.

Most manufacturers also make .22 conversion kits for their full size counterparts. Makes for cheap practice with your gun. I can still hear those academy instructors yelling after all these years. Front sight! Front sight! Reset that damn trigger! :)

LittleLebowski
08-03-2011, 08:49 AM
I've gotta throw in my vote for the Kimber, especially if it's one of their custom shop numbers. Great fit and finish, fine trigger, and as you say it's not as if you're unfamiliar with the 1911. Simplicity of use is a huge plus. Get a well designed thumb-snap holster with the strap positioned over the rear of the slide (blocking the hammer's trajectory), and cocked and locked carry shouldn't be either unsafe or a big issue. It's what I carry in a .45 when I don't use my first variation HK P7 in 9mm.
Now there's an utterly safe firearm.

Ford

I have had poor luck with Kimber's "Custom" stuff. Their Custom stuff is mainly cosmetic only upgrades.

Brian S
08-03-2011, 10:08 AM
HK USP .45C Is a really nice gun, it's blocky and chunky and pretty heavy but if you can carry it concealed (I can, but I'm also heavy and chunky!) then you will find it an utterly reliable, durable, and accurate firearm that will eat anything. They are not cheap, but they quality is high.

http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=28627

LittleLebowski
08-03-2011, 01:02 PM
HK USP .45C Is a really nice gun, it's blocky and chunky and pretty heavy but if you can carry it concealed (I can, but I'm also heavy and chunky!) then you will find it an utterly reliable, durable, and accurate firearm that will eat anything. They are not cheap, but they quality is high.


Excellent recommendation, Brian! A polymer .45 that will outlast and outshoot any 1911.

Brian S
08-03-2011, 01:43 PM
Excellent recommendation, Brian! A polymer .45 that will outlast and outshoot any 1911.

http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=28602


LittleLebowski good point on your previous post about the Kimber custom stuff also. I occasionally carry this one (not a compact), it's a nice gun and I can shoot it more accurately than the HK but I doubt it is truly that much more intristically accurate mechanically. Also I would not recommend it for most CC purposes because it is a bit more of a picky eater, the finish is not as durable, it requires more frequent cleaning and maintainence and to top it off the gosh darned plunger tube popped loose the other day. Kimber does a lot of things right but they need to work on some of their QC issues IMO. The HK is on my side most of the time.

BTK
08-06-2011, 08:29 AM
I have carried a Kimber compact, first gen, in a Milt Sparks holster for years. Great handgun. I have a Colt Officers for backup, but my Kimber has never been down for repair.

LittleLebowski
08-14-2011, 06:14 AM
I also have a Kimber Pro Series, 1st Gen. Sweet shooter but mainly a safe queen.

Godan
08-14-2011, 11:31 AM
One of my compacts is a Kimber, all stainless, CCO with the dreaded external extractor, if anyone remembers that. After at least 4K rounds, there is no appreciable wear on the extractor. One of my full custom 1911's is based on a carbon steel Kimber slide and frame, selected by me because of the exact machining. There are several good work-arounds to access the Series two components in the slide for cleaning. In all, I like and trust Kimbers and recommend them to students who will not listen to reason and buy a Glock. Usually, they buy a Glock as their second handgun after attending my mandatory detail strip class.