Educate me on fountain pens [Archive]

perogee

02-06-2011, 08:12 PM

There are days that I hate you all around here :lol:. I guess I could not be content with soaps, brushes and all that other paraphernalia so I have started to get some fountain pens. I am now carrying a Lamy Safari daily and I have a Waterman Phileas inbound, both with converters.

Now to where I am looking for information. What should I know in terms of things like maintenance and what accessories should I have? I know I have ran into references to blotter pads and the like and was wondering about the general purpose of such things (such as, are they only for use when refilling, or do they serve more purposes?) Are there other necessary, or at least really helpful things to have?

Thanks for any information
Robert

DunEdinRanger

02-06-2011, 08:23 PM

I'm sorry. It may be too late for you.

You went for the High End pens.

I got hooked on Chinese Fountain Pens.

*sigh* Four Months ago I was perfectly happy using ballpoint pens, and now I have more Noodler's Ink than I know what to do with.

And Jinhao pens... I don't even know how many are on the way...

Save yourself. Walk away from FPAD now.

tboobster

02-06-2011, 08:42 PM

I carry a Elysee Parthenon fountain, roller ball, and ballpoint as my daily writing instruments.
the fountain has an italic nib. Good writing tools are a joy to use.

TickTock

02-06-2011, 09:29 PM

Accessories you need? None, though a pen case will keep them safe in your backpack or briefcase.

As far as maintenance goes, there's not much to do. When you change inks, or if the pen starts skipping, then give it a good rinse with cool water--just keep flushing it til it runs clear. If you let ink dry in it, or if you've bought a neglected pen, soak it in a 10% ammonia solution which is very good at dissolving old ink. I've bought more than one pen which was clearly put away full of ink in the 1930's that ammonia has nicely cleaned out.

Let it dry before you put new ink in it, or a tried and true technique to get it dry enough to re-ink sooner is to wrap the nib in tissue paper and flick it like a thermometer (if you're old enough to remember what that is, lol).

If the pen starts to act scratchy, then it's likely the nib tines are misaligned. A jeweler's loupe is useful here--look closely to see if one tine is higher than the other. If so, gently bend it (fingers only!) to get them both the same height.

If it's still scratchy, then there are various techniques to smooth it out. Check out fountainpennetwork.com forums for more advice than you'll ever need, as well as severe Fountain pen acquisition disorder. One easy one is to draw some lazy circles on a brown paper bag, rolling the nib gently around as you do it. The paper is somewhat abrasive and can smooth out a scratchy nib. Or rub the nib on the Lincoln Memorial on the back of a pre-1975 penny, which are real copper and also a mild abrasive. Pen repair folks sell useful microabrasive sheets, but do some reading before you try any of this stuff (including the paper bag and penny tricks) because you can mess up a pen. Excellent advice can also be found at Richard Binder's site http://richardspens.com/ he's an excellent pen repair guy and salesperson.

You have a Safari and a Phileas? Very solid, modern pens that will be trouble free for years. Sometimes converters wallow out at the end that fits in the pen and leak, but they're cheap to replace. Don't mix inks (some combinations can react in bad ways), and never use india ink or anything that is not specifically labeled for fountain pens.

Really, don't drop it and flush it out every once in a while and you'll be fine.

Shangas

02-07-2011, 05:14 AM

Hi Perogee,

Blotting-paper is used to prevent bleeding and feathering (where the ink seeps through the page and spreads out and looks all messy). Blotting the ink soaks it up and makes it dry faster and prevents any unnecessary mess. You can buy blotting-paper from arts and crafts shops or from news-agents/stationers. They come in HUGE whopping A-1 sheets the size of a small billiard table.

Big old blotter-pads (called "desk-blotters") are placed on desks to prevent dripping ink from damaging the desk-surface. I have one on my desk, out of sheer necessity.

Groat

02-07-2011, 05:16 AM

Excellent post by TickTock that covers most of the basics. I'd like to add that different inks behave differently and that if you are having some problems with a pen then the first thing to check is the ink. For example, using a dry ink in a drier pen can cause skipping. I don't think you'll have too many problems with the Lamy or Phileas though, as they are known workhorses. The only real accessory I have is a leather pen case. As stated by TickTock, it keeps my pens looking nice and new when stored in my pocket.

You mention blotter paper. That is used to soak up excess ink off of a page. Generally it's put onto a rocker and then you rock it back and forth once to soak up the ink. It would only really be useful for a VERY wet pen, perhaps if you're doing some calligraphy. I haven't ever used one and with your current pens you shouldn't need one either. When refilling, you just need some paper towel handy to wipe off the nib and section.

maxman

02-07-2011, 05:54 AM

I hate to tell you this, but the pens are horribly addicting.
Pens need ink. Ok, so buy a bunch of ink. Private Reserve? Noodlers? Montrgrappa? Why not? mulitple colours? Of course you need them!
Oh, but wait, pens need paper.
Will any paper do (technically yes) but actually NO!
Arches or Clairfontaine? Pick up a Rhodia pad or two?

Oh and you'll need a leather case to keep your investment from getting banged up.

Then if you have a few you'll need a box to keep them in and a stand for the one on your desk.

But do check out the chinese pens. Most people here have one or two (including me)

At the end of the day, after it's all said and done, a nice FP with nice ink on nice paper is the way to go. Enjoy! :laugh:

jakko

02-07-2011, 06:11 AM

then you think... hmm lamy safari just doesn't cut it for me anymore... then you start looking at the pilot prera/knights before going towards the vanishing point route:thumbup: That's me now.... though my jinhao zhugeliang is currently my fav writer.

perogee

02-07-2011, 06:23 AM

But do check out the chinese pens. Most people here have one or two (including me)

I also have 6 Hero 616's :lol:

njpaddy

02-07-2011, 06:27 AM

There are days that I hate you all around here :lol:. I guess I could not be content with soaps, brushes and all that other paraphernalia so I have started to get some fountain pens. I am now carrying a Lamy Safari daily and I have a Waterman Phileas inbound, both with converters.
These "Everything Else" threads are more dangerous than the shaving forums. I got my first fountain pen last month, a Aurora Style. My second, a cheaper Japanese Pilot Namiki 78G is on it's way from Hong Kong. Still toying with the idea of asking SWMBO for a Phileas or an engraved Ipsilon for Father's Day unless the watch threads win out.

maxman

02-07-2011, 06:30 AM

I also have 6 Hero 616's :lol:

Nice eh? I'm using a Hero 616 at work.
:thumbup1:

missingskin

02-07-2011, 12:01 PM

Beware pen collecting can be a very expensive hobby..........my current daily user is a 1935 Parker Vacumatic made in the good old USA and still writing perfectly......:thumbup:

DunEdinRanger

02-07-2011, 03:19 PM

I also have 6 Hero 616's :lol:

Nice eh? I'm using a Hero 616 at work.
:thumbup1:

For $1.50 a pen, you really can't go wrong. Isn't the Parker 51 a Hero 616 clone? :001_tongu

Shangas

02-07-2011, 03:27 PM

Fountain pens are HORRIBLY addictive.

I've been addicted to them since the age of 7.

I'm STILL trying to find the right support group. I joined the local pen club, and that did squat. Now I'm collecting worse than ever!

Don't discount blotting-paper entirely. If you start getting into writing with vintage pens, you MAY need it. So it's useful to know where you can buy it. Those old flex-pens from the 1900s-1920s can need blotting paper when you use them, so keep a sheet or two nearby.

DavyRay

02-07-2011, 03:39 PM

Everyone is spot on about fountain pens. I acquired about 12 vintage fountain pens in order to get a couple which write well with no restoration required. I also joined the forum at fountainpennetwork.com

Vintage pens are fun. Most write well once cleaned and serviced. There are sellers who restore them to good function and sell them. I have several which would be good daily use pens once I replace the ink sacs. Even no-name pens from the 1930s and 1940s can be good writers.

My daily use pen right now is an older Waterman Phileas. I have a couple of inks. I refill cartridges using a hypodermic syringe. That works better for me than converters.

The comments about paper are also true. You will not be happy writing on cheap copier paper. That stuff works reasonably well in laser printers, but is fuzzy for fountain pens.

Welcome to another arena where quality is available to those who care about it.

pal

02-08-2011, 05:42 AM

perogee

02-09-2011, 04:01 PM

I do leather work as a hobby and have already been thinking about a design for a nice, proper folder for letter writing, including waxes and seals :lol:

Slippery slope indeed, lol

LuckyR

02-09-2011, 05:11 PM

If you are the sort to use a 40's Gillette, then you are likely to want a 20's Parker. Just sayin...

MaxP

02-11-2011, 05:17 PM

ADs happen...

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5399/pens002.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/pens002.jpg/)

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4748/pens003.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/pens003.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Sorry for the fuzzy shot. I was too lazy to get out the tripod.

Groat

02-11-2011, 05:47 PM

That bottle of ink as well as the pen stand look old as heck! Still in great working order though.

perogee

02-11-2011, 07:18 PM

That is a beautiful desk set up :thumbup1:

perogee

02-11-2011, 08:40 PM

Woooo!! My Phileas arrived today, nice!! :thumbup:

Rhythmdawg

02-13-2011, 10:34 AM

I purchased one at the urging of a friend. Now I have 14 "good" ones...totaling about $4000 worth. So yes, it can get expensive if your FPAD gets bad.

I have 3 pelikans, a montblanc, a few deltas, a couple montegrappas, a few viscontis, 2 waterman, and a monteverde. Then I have some other cheaper ones, like the phileas.

I am constantly looking for more. Lusting for the montblanc writers series pens.

It is ridiculously addictive.

Rhythmdawg

02-13-2011, 10:38 AM

If u are looking for more info, www.fountainpennetwork.com is the b&b of fountain pens.

tvldatsi

02-13-2011, 11:10 AM

this is one of those things I just don't understand, but then again, I've only ever used a ball point pen..

Rhythmdawg

02-13-2011, 12:24 PM

this is one of those things I just don't understand, but then again, I've only ever used a ball point pen..

It's like electric vs straight, buick vs Lexus, dogs vs cats.

Just a few of my reasons...

1. The nostalgia factor
2. no one asks to borrow my pens...not that I'd let them anyway...because they don't know how to use them.
3. conversation pieces
4. Very important to me: I have 2 companies with over 100 employees for which I sign my name 100 times a day...I use a specific color noodlers bulletproof ink. Good luck matching it or erasing it.
5. You don't press when u write, which means less cramping.
6. It's addictive.

njpaddy

02-13-2011, 01:16 PM

this is one of those things I just don't understand, but then again, I've only ever used a ball point pen..
It's like the difference between DE (fountain pen) and a cart (ballpoint). Both get the job done. Ballpoint may be faster and easier, but it's boring. The fountain pen takes a bit of practice, but is more enjoyable to use. Like a DE, there are a lot of options with a fountain pen (nib, inks, etc) to experiment with. I'm not a collector or hardcore fountain pen user, but I keep 2 fountain pens next to my pc for jotting things down. When I leave the house, I still carry my old Uniball gel pen because it's easier and I don't have to worry about losing it.

Groat

02-13-2011, 02:48 PM

this is one of those things I just don't understand, but then again, I've only ever used a ball point pen..

Though it always sucks when you hear this, it's one of those things you just have to try for yourself. If you're happy with the cheapest thing at the store, I wouldn't recommend switching. Personally, before I started using FPs I had been on a casual search for the 'perfect' pen for a while. I knew I liked rollerballs because they were smoother and required less pressure. I knew that I liked certain rollerballs better than others (Pilot G2 and Pilot Precise V5.) I took a leap of faith and picked up a halfway decent fountain pen and it was like nothing I'd used before.

Rhythmdawg

02-13-2011, 05:02 PM

And fwiw, true fp enthusiasts do not use cartridges.

penmanship

02-13-2011, 05:32 PM

I could try to give you what limited info I know about fountain pen's, or I could direct you here............................

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/

it's the fountain pen version of B&B ! :lol:

nice pen's btw,
Tim

Groat

02-13-2011, 05:34 PM

And fwiw, true fp enthusiasts do not use cartridges.

I wouldn't say that this is a steadfast rule. Cartridges are convenient and it's always useful to have a box around. Also, many people refill carts. The converter that came with my Pilot pens is not a great design, but the Pilot carts are large and easy to fill with an eyedropper.

Rhythmdawg

02-13-2011, 06:30 PM

I wouldn't say that this is a steadfast rule. Cartridges are convenient and it's always useful to have a box around. Also, many people refill carts. The converter that came with my Pilot pens is not a great design, but the Pilot carts are large and easy to fill with an eyedropper.

Let me try again...

True enthusiasts do not use cartridges.

instpasr

02-13-2011, 06:59 PM

Though it always sucks when you hear this, it's one of those things you just have to try for yourself. If you're happy with the cheapest thing at the store, I wouldn't recommend switching. Personally, before I started using FPs I had been on a casual search for the 'perfect' pen for a while. I knew I liked rollerballs because they were smoother and required less pressure. I knew that I liked certain rollerballs better than others (Pilot G2 and Pilot Precise V5.) I took a leap of faith and picked up a halfway decent fountain pen and it was like nothing I'd used before.

You have to try FPs for yourself for sure to know if they are for you. Groat PIFed one to me and now I'm hooked. In fact I just ordered a Namiki vanishing point to carry as my everyday pen because I use the one from Groat in my office and don't want to lose it.

Groat

02-13-2011, 07:05 PM

In fact I just ordered a Namiki vanishing point to carry as my everyday pen.

I think you'll really enjoy using that pen. The nib on mine is buttery smooth.

Let me try again...

True enthusiasts do not use cartridges.

I don't think that underlining and repeating your statement makes you any more correct. Cartridges are useful. They have their place. Completely discounting them or assigning a stigma to anybody who might use them is elitist.

Walker

02-13-2011, 07:07 PM

instpasr

02-13-2011, 07:10 PM

I was torn between which nib to go with as I had read that Japanese pens tended to have finer nibs so I went with a medium this time out. If I don't like it I see it can be easily changed.

Rhythmdawg

02-13-2011, 08:09 PM

I think you'll really enjoy using that pen. The nib on mine is buttery smooth.

I don't think that underlining and repeating your statement makes you any more correct. Cartridges are useful. They have their place. Completely discounting them or assigning a stigma to anybody who might use them is elitist.

I think you misunderstand. I wasn't doing either of those things, and I wasn't being elitist. I have a couple that use cartridges. My point is, your great grandfather didn't use cartridges. There is nothing wrong with them. They have their place. I use them in a couple pens.

Using cartridges is like using a shavette and calling it a straight shave. Same technique, same shave, but not the full experience. Sorry I didn't clearly communicate.

rickboone1

02-13-2011, 08:36 PM

Bought a beautiful Waterman Phileas fountain pen. Took it to work with me. Dropped it on the deck (steal). Been trying to straighten out the nib ever since. I have it writing again but not as good as it was. :a52:

Ouch. If you want to contact me and shoot over a few pics I MIGHT be able to help you get it back into shape. Maybe.

Walker

02-13-2011, 08:53 PM

Ouch. If you want to contact me and shoot over a few pics I MIGHT be able to help you get it back into shape. Maybe.

Thanks Rick. I straightened it out best i could at work. Then when i got home i got my loupe out and did a better job at it. It writes a lot better now but it still isn't perfect. I doubt it ever will be. Thought about contacting Waterman and see if they would sell me half a pen but i see on some websites that Waterman has discontinued there Fine nib Phileas fountain pens, don't know if thats the same for the medium nibs. Might be worth a shot. Thanks anyway though.

orchestrion

02-13-2011, 09:23 PM

A few days ago I ordered a Hero 616 just for fun because they look so much like the Parker 51s. I've been planning on ordering a Lamy Safari for a week or so as well.

perogee

02-13-2011, 10:26 PM

I absolutely love the looks and feel of my Phileas (green marble look), but I do wish they had an extra fine nib for them. I have to be careful of my writing for the fine that I got. Overall though, really pleased with it.

Rhythmdawg

02-14-2011, 07:10 AM

I have developed, of all the pens I have, a strong fondness for pelikans. You should definitely try one if you never have.

LouieGrandie

02-14-2011, 07:22 AM

I was torn between which nib to go with as I had read that Japanese pens tended to have finer nibs so I went with a medium this time out. If I don't like it I see it can be easily changed.

Yes Japanese pens tend to be one size finer than Western pens. Their mediums write like Western fines and their fines write like Western Extra Fine. The Japanese nibs in Fine and Extra fine write very smooth. Note that Sailor pens write a bit wetter than Pilot and Nakayas.

Of the Japanese pens Sailor has the widest range of nibs with all writing very smooth. Pilots are called Pilot in Japan but in the U.S. they are called Namiki which was the original name of the company. This is to distinguish their fountain pens from the ordinary ball points. While they may not have the wide range of pens that Sailor has, those they do have are iconic. The Vanishing Point and the M90 are unique as any fountain pen you will find in the world. If you think the Vanishing Point is smooth wait until you get a M90. Nakaya is a highly regarded pen. Each pen is made to order. Each and every one. When you go to the web page you have to fill out an entire page on your preferences when placing an order. The sublime beauty of these pens is stunning to the point of tears the first time you see one. If you have $500-$600 that you can spend on a pen, this is the pen you should get.

instpasr

02-14-2011, 09:33 AM

You guys are Killing me in a good way of course :lol::lol::lol:

LouieGrandie

02-14-2011, 11:43 AM

Nakaya Order Page (http://www.nakaya.org/order/ekarte.php)

Here is a link to the Nakaya order page. Take a look. Here is a small part of it.

(Fountain pen() only)
How heavy is your writing pressure?
heavy (150g) medium (120g) light (90g)
What part of pen section do you hold when writing?
Do you post the cap (put the cap on) when writing?
Yes,I post the cap. No,I don't post the cap.
Remark:
Long types of Equilibrium, Writer and Cigar models are designed for not posting cap at the barrel when writing.
Your writing speed is;
fast moderate slow
Your writing is;
large medium small
About your letters;
cursive block letters

At what angle do you hold your pen ?

Since Nakaya fountain pen's nib itself is of the 22mm in size, the part where the pen is gripped shall divert at least 25mm from the surface of writting paper.Therefore, you are requested to answer below your writing angle based on this assumption.
(If the gripping part of the pen will be nearer to the surface of writing paper, the pen will stand more in vertical position while writing and vice versa).

high(70) average(60) low(45-50)

instpasr

02-14-2011, 12:52 PM

Very nice.:001_tt1:

RosaryMan

02-14-2011, 01:13 PM

I carry a Elysee Parthenon fountain, roller ball, and ballpoint as my daily writing instruments.
the fountain has an italic nib. Good writing tools are a joy to use.

What's the difference between roller ball and ball point?

perogee

02-15-2011, 05:33 PM

So now that I have some pens, now on to inks....

And the slope gets steeper :lol:

LuckyR

02-15-2011, 06:21 PM

What's the difference between roller ball and ball point?

The ink. Historically rollerballs has liquid ink so it was vulnerable to drying out, therefore the pens were capped. Ballpoint ink is... well, it's ballpoint ink, kind of syrupy, hence the point can retract and not have to be capped.

Curently there are gel rollerball inks that fit in ballpoint pens but give a rollerball experience (read: very smooth). This is my go-to non fountain set up.

Groat

02-15-2011, 07:52 PM

The ink. Historically rollerballs has liquid ink so it was vulnerable to drying out, therefore the pens were capped. Ballpoint ink is... well, it's ballpoint ink, kind of syrupy, hence the point can retract and not have to be capped.

Curently there are gel rollerball inks that fit in ballpoint pens but give a rollerball experience (read: very smooth). This is my go-to non fountain set up.

Quite right. Ballpoint ink is oil-based, which is why it's more viscous and less prone to drying. Rollerball ink is water-based like FP ink. I also like the gel rollerball inks better than normal rollerball as well as ballpoint inks. It's like the best of both worlds.

litework

02-16-2011, 04:57 PM

It's like electric vs straight, buick vs Lexus, dogs vs cats.

Just a few of my reasons...

1. The nostalgia factor
2. no one asks to borrow my pens...not that I'd let them anyway...because they don't know how to use them.
3. conversation pieces
4. Very important to me: I have 2 companies with over 100 employees for which I sign my name 100 times a day...I use a specific color noodlers bulletproof ink. Good luck matching it or erasing it.
5. You don't press when u write, which means less cramping.
6. It's addictive.

A lot of these reasons can be applied to traditional shaving. And just like traditional shaving, with a fountain pen you do not throw away plastic. Even if you go with a cartridge, you can still refill it.

RosaryMan

02-16-2011, 08:21 PM

Hmm. This is very interesting. How much is a decent "entry level" roller ball or fountain pen? I'd like to try one out but hate to spend too much. Can you buy them in a store, or do you have to get them via the internet. If there is a store that carries them, that would give me a chance to handle one, try one?, before I buy.

Plano

02-16-2011, 08:32 PM

I don't think you can go wrong with the Lamy Safari. It can be bought for 25-30 bucks new either online or most pen shops. There are some cheaper pens out there I would start by checking out www.isellpens.com and see if any catch your eye.

RosaryMan

02-16-2011, 08:36 PM

orchestrion

02-16-2011, 08:49 PM

I plan on buying a Safari pretty soon with either a Fine or Extra Fine nib (I'm leaning toward Extra Fine). My Hero 616 arrived today and a bottle of Noodler's Bulletproof Black should get here on Friday. :thumbup1:

RosaryMan

02-16-2011, 08:56 PM

orchestrion

02-16-2011, 09:27 PM

Bulletproof ink?

It's a term that Noodler's uses to name their inks that are waterproof, tamper proof, and permanent among other things. Someone more educated on it can chime in, but it basically means that it's nearly impossible for someone to mess with it once it's on paper. Not all of their inks are "bulletproof" but the ones that are will be labeled as such.

cuttoribbons

02-16-2011, 10:50 PM

I've been using a fountain pen since I was at school. We ahd to use one form the age of six and I've never stopped. Curently use a Caran D'Ache - a wedding pressie from the missus.

Only advice I can give is use the same manufacturer's ink as made the pen. The ink flows by capillary action and the manufacturer's design the ink to flow based on the manufacture of the pen.

Try different types of nib as well. I love the rich thick flow that goes with a broad nib but YMMV.

Cheers:thumbup1:

Geeno

02-17-2011, 02:31 PM

It's a term that Noodler's uses to name their inks that are waterproof, tamper proof, and permanent among other things. Someone more educated on it can chime in, but it basically means that it's nearly impossible for someone to mess with it once it's on paper. Not all of their inks are "bulletproof" but the ones that are will be labeled as such.

That's what they call it, and that's the claim. It's what I use, too. I do notice that with Noodler's I get ink on top of my nibs, I think that's called "nib creep". No big deal, just strange looking.

BTW - for anybody that wants a super cheap way to try a fountain pen - head over to your local big box ofice supply store and look in the poen section for a 3-pack of the Pilot Varsity pens. I think there's a black, a blue and some other colr pen. I have a few of these, and they actually write pretty nice...if a bit thick (for my tastes). Pretty sure I have seen them at Staples and O-Max.

perogee

02-18-2011, 06:18 PM

I think I may be in trouble. I just discovered demonstrator models :w00t:

LuckyR

02-20-2011, 12:33 PM

RGraphics

02-20-2011, 01:36 PM

Groat

02-20-2011, 04:10 PM

WOW! Theres Montblanc solid gold fountain pens on ebay with prices over 80k. i really had no idea on how theres a totally different world for fountain pens. Last time I wrote with a fountain pen was in high school (16yrs ago) and remember having a test in writing with one. It was an older teacher that made it a part of the class program.

There's a good chance that for every thing that 'normal' people find mundane, there's somebody out there who is enthusiastic about it. I'm sure the average public would balk at many of the people on this forum. After all, shaving is something people learn while growing up and some might see this fascination with shaving as juvenile. Fountain pens come in an absolutely huge range of prices, from a couple bucks to something 99.999% of people wouldn't ever be able to afford. I found a blog on the internet recently that was all about pencils, and then mostly about the simple wooden ones. In browsing that blog for a few minutes, I came to understand that there is a hierarchy of quality #2 pencils.

In browsing other non-shaving related subforums here, you'll find plenty of little obsessions that might look odd from the outside. Watches are one you'll see in the Haberdashery. Look through the watch of the day thread and you'll be awed by some of the nice things people have there. In the Mess Hall subforum, there are plenty of people in pursuit of their next great meal. They have set up group buys for some fantastic knives at prices many people would never even consider paying, but which I understand to be a good deal when all things are considered. The cafe has plenty of people looking for a perfect cup of tea or coffee and will spend plenty in their journey. To the 'average joe' who is happy with Lipton and Folgers, it must look ludicrous. The same goes with the liquor, beer and wine people here.

Without inflating this forums' collective ego too much, I believe that these pursuits of perfection are part of what makes life worth living. Being happy with what life throws at you is not in our nature. Rather, we go out and pursue other things simply for the fact that it makes us happy. Other people might think it's a little strange but a man who lives his life for others is not really living his own life.

DunEdinRanger

02-20-2011, 05:41 PM

this is one of those things I just don't understand, but then again, I've only ever used a ball point pen..

How true. And for me how ironic, as the beneficent nuns in grammar school insisted on us using fountain pens. How I yearned for High School when I would be free to write with a ball point pen!

A few days ago I ordered a Hero 616 just for fun because they look so much like the Parker 51s. I've been planning on ordering a Lamy Safari for a week or so as well.

I usually use the Hero 616's as work pens. At $1.50, bought in bulk from e-bay, you really can't go wrong.

So now that I have some pens, now on to inks....

And the slope gets steeper :lol:

Oh it certainly does, but the vast variety of colors makes it an interesting slope.

Hmm. This is very interesting. How much is a decent "entry level" roller ball or fountain pen? I'd like to try one out but hate to spend too much. Can you buy them in a store, or do you have to get them via the internet. If there is a store that carries them, that would give me a chance to handle one, try one?, before I buy.

I just got some $10 Jinhao pens from E-bay and they write very, very smoothly.

... I believe that these pursuits of perfection are part of what makes life worth living. Being happy with what life throws at you is not in our nature. Rather, we go out and pursue other things simply for the fact that it makes us happy...

A interesting thought. Thanks for sharing.

LouieGrandie

02-21-2011, 06:09 AM

That's what they call it, and that's the claim. It's what I use, too. I do notice that with Noodler's I get ink on top of my nibs, I think that's called "nib creep". No big deal, just strange looking.

Noodler's is a very lubricating ink and will produce "nib crip" in most pens especially Mont Blancs.

Viseguy

02-21-2011, 11:33 AM

I rediscovered fountain pens 13 years ago and have never looked back. I rediscovered DE shaving one month ago, and cart shaving has become a thing of the past.

For me the analogy is striking: Once you've discovered the joys of applying real lather to your face with a fine brush and the clean, precise feel of a single blade removing your beard, nothing else compares. Similarly, for me, no ballpoint or felt tip could ever match the feel of a gold or steel nib laying down free-flowing, water-based ink on paper. There are many other similarities as well: the rituals of lather creation, razor maintenance, brush cleaning, etc. vs. the rituals of filling the pen (from a bottle, please -- you're missing an essential part of the experience if all you use is carts), flushing and cleaning pens; the endless variety of blades, soaps, creams, brushes etc. vs. the endless variety of pens, nibs, inks, papers, and writing paraphernalia such as desk sets, ink bottles, and so forth -- and, of course, the corresponding ADs; the whole vintage vs. modern debate. (You like straight razors? How about dip pens?)

Like traditional shaving, fountain pens and inks are not for everyone, and if you're into wet shaving you won't necessarily also be taken by fountain pens. On the other hand, if you like writing and the experience of writing ... you may.

As has been mentioned, Fountain Pen Network (http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/) is the FP analogue to B&B and a great place to get a feel for the interest as well as lots of useful information and discussion. If you're into the vintage/collecting side of things, the Fountain Pen Board (http://fountainpenboard.com/forum/) is populated by knowledgeable enthusiasts and moderated by leading experts in the field.

Sigh. Sometimes I wonder how there's time for a day job. :laugh:

perogee

03-07-2011, 06:42 PM

I had a TWSBI Diamond 530 arrive today. I have fallen in love with this pen nearly from the moment I opened the box. It is the clear (demonstrator) option so I get to see all the inner workings and the wonderful ink that I get to put in it as well ( in this case Iroshizuko Tsuki-yo). I like the way it writes and think that I will be carrying this pen a lot :thumbup1:

dbl-haul

03-08-2011, 08:07 PM

I bought a 16 pack of Hero 616 from a vendor on ebay. (latenight buy it now moment). the pens I use the most are Pelikan. I have the m800 and some m400 . The 800 is my go to pen. I have about 50 pens in my pen stable. It is a great addiction!:thumbup1:

gobeavs

03-11-2011, 11:04 PM

hi guys...so what nib(s) do you guys prefer for the Lamy safari?

Groat

03-12-2011, 07:38 AM

hi guys...so what nib(s) do you guys prefer for the Lamy safari?

That is going to depend on what you currently enjoy using. If you like a real thin line, XF is probably the only thing that will get you what you want. I've got a M nib Lamy 2000 (which essentially has the same nib in a different material) and wish I had gotten a F instead. It writes larger than true with a wet ink on more absorbent paper.

gobeavs

03-12-2011, 07:05 PM

orchestrion

03-13-2011, 12:35 PM

I'm still a bit of a noob with the fountain pens. I've only got one, and it's a 'medium' nib. It's very smooth, the line is just a bit heavy. It looks like the writing of an ultra fine point Sharpie.

I'm thinking about grabbing a Safari, but wasnt sure if I should go for the fine or extra fine.

Whichever you decide to do, you can buy replacement nibs from Lamy's website (www.lamyusa.com I believe). They're pretty easy to remove and replace. Here (http://blog.shopwritersbloc.com/fountain_pens/how_to_replace_the_nib_on_a_la.html)'s a link showing how to do it.

closer

03-13-2011, 05:25 PM

orchestrion

03-13-2011, 05:41 PM

I'm a fountain pen newbie, and got the Lami safari with Fine nib, using it with Noodler's bulletproof black ink. Even though I prefer fine point pens, the Fine nib does not seem as smooth as I would like. Would I be better off with a Medium?

If I were you, I would just continue writing with it to see if anything changes. There's some debate as to whether or not fountain pens need "breaking in" or not, but I think after writing with it for a bit you'll know if anything changes. Replacement nibs are cheap enough and easy to replace, so if you don't like the Fine nib you won't have to buy a whole new pen. :thumbup1:

Groat

03-13-2011, 06:17 PM

I'm a fountain pen newbie, and got the Lami safari with Fine nib, using it with Noodler's bulletproof black ink. Even though I prefer fine point pens, the Fine nib does not seem as smooth as I would like. Would I be better off with a Medium?

If you literally just got the pen, give it a day or two at least. I have found that many pens, especially when new, drag a bit when you first ink them. Later, the feed saturates and you get better flow coupled with less drag.

Fountain pens, because of the way they work, need relatively precise alignment of the nib to operate properly. While I feel everything should always work properly out of the box, that does not always hold true. If one tine is above the other, you could be feeling the flat surface between the tines dragging across the paper. This alignment is not always easy to see with the naked eye, which is why many FP enthusiasts buy a loupe. Minor tine adjustments are easy to make with your fingernail and I have had some good results doing so. If you're not sure that alignment is the problem or you don't feel comfortable making adjustments, I would not do it myself.

Finally, finer nibs are inherently toothier than larger sizes. However, the difference is noticeable but not extremely large. Great amounts of tooth are usually indicative of an alignment problem.

orchestrion

03-13-2011, 07:07 PM

To add to what Groat said, I've read that Lamy's pens are sometimes shipped with "factory gunk" on the nib. Some people like to let the nib sit in soapy water overnight just to be sure it's all gone. If you're not satisfied with the pen's performance after a day or so you could certainly try soaking it.

LouieGrandie

03-14-2011, 06:30 AM

I'm still a bit of a noob with the fountain pens. I've only got one, and it's a 'medium' nib. It's very smooth, the line is just a bit heavy. It looks like the writing of an ultra fine point Sharpie.

I'm thinking about grabbing a Safari, but wasn't sure if I should go for the fine or extra fine.

Lamys write a bit "wet" if you would like a somewhat "drier" pen take a look at a Pilot Vanishing Point in Medium.

LouieGrandie

03-14-2011, 06:33 AM

I'm a fountain pen newbie, and got the Lami safari with Fine nib, using it with Noodler's bulletproof black ink. Even though I prefer fine point pens, the Fine nib does not seem as smooth as I would like. Would I be better off with a Medium?

I see you live in Long Island, NY. Take some time and go by The Fountain Pen Hospital (http://www.fountainpenhospital.com/)
You can see numerous other pens and try them out and discuss your issue with the people there.

instpasr

03-14-2011, 09:38 AM

Lamys write a bit "wet" if you would like a somewhat "drier" pen take a look at a Pilot Vanishing Point in Medium.

I just recently bought a namiki (pilot) Vanishing Point and love it. It had a bit of tooth at first but it's great now. The nibs on Japanese pens tend to run small so if you like fine get a medium.

closer

03-14-2011, 06:11 PM

Thanks for the replies above, guys, as well as the reference to the Fountain Pen hospital. Will check it out.

Dripp

03-14-2011, 06:45 PM

The multiple addiction thing is a truism. About 6 years ago I found B&B, loaded up on gear and have been DE shaving ever since. I had a couple of fountain pens that I bought after I found a pen store with an incredible collection. I bought a Lamy 2000 as my first, then a Pelikan m400 and finally a Pilot vanishing point. Used them for a while and put them away. I tell myself I couldn't find an ink I liked. I'm not really sure why I put them away, I just preferred to use my Lamy ball point.

I hadn't visited B&B for about 4 years and then over the holidays I forgot my brush when I was away for a week. luckily there was an internet vendor right around the corner from where I was staying, bought a new brush, and now I have 7 with another on the way. a dozen new blades and about that many new creams.

While I enjoyed that resurgence, I found the discussions about pens again and went back over to FPN where I bought some noodlers from a member there. I then decided I really liked the convenience of the vanishing points, but the pen was a bit too large for me. Who knew that they produced a smaller version for the Japanese market called the Decimo. And sure enough I found a member who was willing to sell one to me, brand new and unused. I love that pen. I took it on a business trip the day after I got it, wrote with it the entire day and loved it. I use it every day now.

Don't get me started on the home coffee roasting and espresso habit that I acquired about 6-7 years ago - same deal. I think it has a tremendous amount to do with the online communities where we can share what we know and need to know to learn. To learn what it means to enjoy something so much that we enthusiastically invite others to give it a try. And they decide that it works for them.

I liken it to passing along a long, lost art or experience to the next generation. There are easier ways to shave, write, have coffee but we choose to actually enjoy the experience, not just get to the point. Enjoyment of the experience, and the sharing of it with other like, minded people - that's what strengthens the addiction - and I love it.

Suzuki

03-14-2011, 06:45 PM

The 800 is my go to pen. I have about 50 pens in my pen stable. It is a great addiction!:thumbup1:

I pretty much consider the Pelikan 800 as the benchmark for what I want in a FP - although its a pricey pen. If you're on a budget, the Lamy 2000 is one of the best bargains out there if you don't mind the austere styling - just a great writing pen with what I think is a very understated, timeless design.

That is going to depend on what you currently enjoy using. If you like a real thin line, XF is probably the only thing that will get you what you want. I've got a M nib Lamy 2000 (which essentially has the same nib in a different material) and wish I had gotten a F instead. It writes larger than true with a wet ink on more absorbent paper.

The Lamy nibs tend to run thick - I think the fine is what most people will like and doesn't dig into the paper the way an XF can. I have a couple of Safaris and they're great pens for the money - the Lamy converter is also very good.

If I were you, I would just continue writing with it to see if anything changes. There's some debate as to whether or not fountain pens need "breaking in" or not, but I think after writing with it for a bit you'll know if anything changes. Replacement nibs are cheap enough and easy to replace, so if you don't like the Fine nib you won't have to buy a whole new pen. :thumbup1:

I think most pens need a few fills before they break in - I had a Vanishing Point that wrote much better after a few fills.

I just recently bought a namiki (pilot) Vanishing Point and love it. It had a bit of tooth at first but it's great now. The nibs on Japanese pens tend to run small so if you like fine get a medium.

I agree with this - both on the nibs and break in. One of the thinks I've found is that if you have a pen with a nib that needs a bit of breaking in that the Noodler's "eel" series can help - its got a bit of lubricant in it to help with the mechanisms of piston pens, but I find it has very smooth writing qualities as well.

brianw

03-14-2011, 06:57 PM

rickboone1

03-14-2011, 07:21 PM

Chris I tend to disagree with you... I feel a Lamy is one on the most over rated pens out there.... Give me a "51" and it will outlast and run circles around current production lamy's.... the only good Lamy was the 27...IMHO

Many Lamy's need adjusting and cleaning to get working when new. I don't care for the grip that much. It takes a bit of getting used to. If you could adjust the nib to align the section grips with your hand hold it'd be a lot better.

orchestrion

03-14-2011, 08:33 PM

While I have yet to try a Parker 51 (there's one in decent shape at my local antique store for $34.99...we'll see how long I hold out), I think there's much to be said for the Lamy Safari's price and availability. For not much money, someone can get a sturdy pen and a converter and be on his way. The nibs are really easy to replace and the clips are good. While a Hero 616 or 100 is a cheap starter pen, the quality control can be hit or miss. The first Hero 616 I bought had a nib that was cut so far off center that the second tine was a mere sliver on the edge of the nib. For a newbie who doesn't know much about how his pen works, it can be awfully frustrating to have a pen that doesn't write.

I think another good starter pen is the Noodler's Ink piston fill. While the body is kind of small and it smells weird for a few days, the piston fill system is solid and the nib is very nice. At $14.00, there's really no complaining either.

All of that being said, I might eat every single word I just said if I magically end up with a Parker 51 this week. :biggrin1:

Suzuki

03-15-2011, 10:20 AM

Chris I tend to disagree with you... I feel a Lamy is one on the most over rated pens out there.... Give me a "51" and it will outlast and run circles around current production lamy's.... the only good Lamy was the 27...IMHO

Obviously this is a YMMV sort of thing and the Safaris have crept up in price, but I do think they are good, durable, easy to use pens.

I agree that the 51 is a good pen (as are their cheaper 21 cousins), but comparing a 51 to a Safari is like comparing apples to oranges - the 51 was a high end pen and the cheapest version cost $12.50 when it was released in 1941. Even the cheaper 21 (steel nib and some other cost-saving materials) was $5 in 1960. In other words, you're comparing a very high-end pen to an entrly level one - there should be no comparison.. Also, while you can occasionally find a 51 for a reasonable price in the wild (and take your chances), you'll spend at least $100 for one that's been properly refurbished.

I also disagree that the 27 was the only good Lamy - I've had my 2000 for about 8 years and its functioned flawlessly and is a great writing pen that can be had for $100 if you shop around. I've also got a vintage 80, which is also a nice pen.

Again, this is a YMMV thing.

Arsenal

03-15-2011, 11:20 AM

orchestrion

03-15-2011, 12:12 PM

How many of you are lefties out there? I am left-handed only for writing, it is bizarre in my eyes lol.

Does using a fountain pen require a different way of holding the pen, so as to disallow smearing? I've used a fountain only twice in my life, and that was quite some time ago.

There are some inks that dry much faster than others. Noodler's ink just recently came out with two new inks, Bernanke Blue (http://www.gouletpens.com/Noodler_s_Ink_Bernanke_Blue_p/N19067.htm) and Bernanke Black (http://www.gouletpens.com/Noodler_s_Ink_Bernanke_Black_p/N19066.htm), that were formulated to dry faster for lefties to use.

Suzuki

03-15-2011, 01:01 PM

Besides the quick drying ink, try to avoid pens that lay down a wet line. Most fine or medium nibs should work fine.

Vlad

03-15-2011, 01:11 PM

There are some inks that dry much faster than others. Noodler's ink just recently came out with two new inks, Bernanke Blue (http://www.gouletpens.com/Noodler_s_Ink_Bernanke_Blue_p/N19067.htm) and Bernanke Black (http://www.gouletpens.com/Noodler_s_Ink_Bernanke_Black_p/N19066.htm), that were formulated to dry faster for lefties to use.

Yes, "lefties" and also "Lefties." :biggrin1: (Speaking as a Lefty.)

Groat

03-28-2011, 06:12 PM

I was in class today, and I sat next to somebody who I don't believe I've been next to before. I could see as she was taking notes with her ballpoint that she was using so much pressure that the pages she had written on were visibly wrinkled, while the blank ones were smooth. I shuddered to think what she would do to a fountain pen, given the chance.

DeaconKC

03-31-2011, 04:58 PM

Another very good pen that is easy to find and [in my opinion anyway] even better writer than the 51 is the Parker 45. They have converted me from the 21 and 51. The nib system was swappable and very very smooth. Also, consider the Pelikan 215 series, they are 400 sized, with a metal liner, so they are a little heavier [about like an 800], and again Pelikan quality for a reasonable price.

jeffpofutah

04-03-2011, 03:27 PM

I have a Rotring Fountain pen. It is amazing in that it travels by bicycle, in my pannier, to from work in all kinds of weather - everything from 5F to 95F. The thing just never leaks. I fly with it regularly and it has never leaked.

strop

04-09-2011, 12:44 PM

New to B&B, but fountain pens have been my preferred writing instrument for some time. Glad I stumbled upon the part of the forum. I really like the Waterman selections, though my current rotation includes a Monteverde, as well as a couple that I turned. I have been pleasantly surprised at the nib quality in some of the less expensive pen kits available. I also like the Levenger house brand, the Tru-Writer. Anyone else have any experienc with these? I've beenusing Levenger ink. See a lot of talk here aabout Noodler's. Will check that out.

Mark

LuckyR

04-13-2011, 04:42 PM