Why doesn't Gillette capitalize on its name and history by . . .

[New Madrid]

. . . making a mid-to-higher priced "classic" line of DE razors?

Picture it: high-quality reissues of your favorite Gillette razors from the past century.

Fender has made a fortune by making new reproductions of its guitar and amplifier models from the fifties and sixties.

American car makers are returning to the design themes of their mid-century glory days.

The B&B community is small but growing rapidly, as numerous articles attest.

Mad Men has caused a spike of interest in men's retro fashions--retro razors are not that far of a stretch.

It seems like the time is right. The (small, but affluent) market is here.

Gillette could make money while at the same time restoring their good name among people who care about quality, history, and Gillette's (former) place as an icon of American innovation.

[TBaGZ]

I would have to say that there isn't enough demand for them to put anything into production. Sure they would sell some but in the BIG picture the money that they made from it would not be worth the hassle to them. JMO

[bradyarz]

this has been discussed before, although i can't remember where. i believe the general consensus was it would more than likely be too expensive for gillette to re-implement all the tooling, and the finished product would likely (knowing modern gillette) cost a couple hundred dollars.

[evandood]

With Rhodium plating who needs new razors? I figure my Razor will last for another 50 years and then some, and I haven't even replated it yet.

[Topgumby]

Why on earth would Proctor and Gamble (Gillette is merely a brand name now) put out a product that runs counter to the advertising they've spent millions and millions on?

[Omnichron]

they spend billions on adding an extra blade to every new product they roll out. I don't see why they couldn't spend a few hundred millions heck buy the machinery from another country and start making classic razors!

[kg4ghn]

they spend billions on adding an extra blade to every new product they roll out. I don't see why they couldn't spend a few hundred millions heck buy the machinery from another country and start making classic razors!

Gillette's sales model: cheap handle to get you started, expensive cartridges that you have to buy. This makes them ridiculous amounts of money every year

To then put out a razor that is expensive but has 10 cent blades that can be bought from any blade maker and shaves better than those super expensive cartridges that you have to buy from them doesn't make any sense.

[BladeDE40]

We are but a small niche in the shaving world...

[Omnichron]

there we go...http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A4242/42420/300_42420.jpg

[New Madrid]

Gillette wouldn't do it for the money, though they would probably sell more than they thought they would.

They would (that is, should) do it for the same reason many auto makers produce small numbers of specialty cars, whiskey makers offer small batches of expensive extra-aged product, and Gibson has a custom shop: to market to a different demographic than typically buys its stuff, and, more importantly, to build reputation and buzz around aspirational items that capture the imagination and anchor the brand in quality and (its own) iconic history. What's so crazy about that?

[RF1963]

Why on earth would Proctor and Gamble (Gillette is merely a brand name now) put out a product that runs counter to the advertising they've spent millions and millions on?

That was my immediate response; all their advertising is that their newest shiniest product is the absolute best ever, promoting something that hardly changed throughout the Twentieth Century would be contrary to their basic position on shaving equipment.

[New Madrid]

Why on earth would Proctor and Gamble (Gillette is merely a brand name now) put out a product that runs counter to the advertising they've spent millions and millions on?

They wouldn't. These are not mutually exclusive product lines. Look at any of the old school guitar/amp makers, for example. Fender and Marshall sell their latest and greatest designs right alongside their vintage reproductions. Some buy digital modeling amps, others buy tweeds. Meanwhile, they have ads that say the latest IS greatest, and others that frame the sixties as a golden age to be recaptured.

Different marketing demographics = no conflict.

[Schick_Fan]

this has been discussed before, although i can't remember where. i believe the general consensus was it would more than likely be too expensive for gillette to re-implement all the tooling, and the finished product would likely (knowing modern gillette) cost a couple hundred dollars.

They don't have any money after the Fusion then Fusion Pro Glide marketing campaigns. Gillette needs to wait until people start buying Pro Glide cartridges at $4 or $5 a pop. If people buy them that is.

[Drubbing]

Picture it: high-quality reissues of your favorite Gillette razors from the past century.. . . making a mid-to-higher priced "classic" line of DE razors? Have you any idea how much these would actually cost? And they'd still be inferior to anything made 40 years ago. Case in point: reintroduction of vintage pens like the Parker 51.



Fender has made a fortune by making new reproductions of its guitar and amplifier models from the fifties and sixties. A lot more people buy guitars than vintage razors.


American car makers are returning to the design themes of their mid-century glory days. A lot more people buy cars than vintage razors.


Mad Men has caused a spike of interest in men's retro fashions--retro razors are not that far of a stretch. It's a fad. People here aren't fadding with DE shaving.


It seems like the time is right. The (small, but affluent) market is here. The small market is already being catered for by small retailers.


Gillette could make money while at the same time restoring their good name among people who care about quality, history, and Gillette's (former) place as an icon of American innovation.Gillette, for all intents and purposes doesn't exist. It's profit model has been subsumed into P&G, which is pretty much all they're interested in. Shareholder and boardroom profits don't harbour nostalgia for the sake of it. They would never make as much money as they do from the current situation.


Why on earth would Proctor and Gamble (Gillette is merely a brand name now) put out a product that runs counter to the advertising they've spent millions and millions on?
This is why it will never happen.

[cswann1]

there we go...http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/A4242/42420/300_42420.jpg




OMG....where can I get one.......I must have it....it's obviously the best shaver ever, because it has even more blades crammed into a design that only allows one angle. Right?

[Ophidian]

Why on earth would Proctor and Gamble (Gillette is merely a brand name now) put out a product that runs counter to the advertising they've spent millions and millions on?

It might be the masses want simple, 2 strokes and your done cheap junk...And that cheap junk is inexpensive to manufacture.

[New Madrid]

Have you any idea how much these would actually cost? And they'd still be inferior to anything made 40 years ago. Case in point: reintroduction of vintage pens like the Parker 51.

A lot more people buy guitars than vintage razors.

A lot more people buy cars than vintage razors.

It's a fad. People here aren't fadding with DE shaving.

The small market is already being catered for by small retailers.

Gillette, for all intents and purposes doesn't exist. It's profit model has been subsumed into P&G, which is pretty much all they're interested in. Shareholder and boardroom profits don't harbour nostalgia for the sake of it. They would never make as much money as they do from the current situation.


This is why it will never happen.


You missed the point. It's not about making money. It's about creating a flagship, small-production "classic" line for people like us.

I don't mind being refuted, but at least refute the idea as presented.

Fender and Marshall sell a miniscule number of their high-end handwired amps as compared to their large-production items. But they offer the ultra high-end amps for the small subset of customers who really care and desire those things. It also does wonders for their brand because even those who can't afford or don't want the fancy stuff associate the cheaper stuff with "quality."

[New Madrid]

It might be the masses want simple, 2 strokes and your done cheap junk...And that cheap junk is inexpensive to manufacture.

No argument with that.

[cswann1]

You missed the point. It's not about making money. It's about creating a flagship, small-production "classic" line for people like us.

I don't mind being refuted, but at least refute the idea as presented.

Fender and Marshall sell a miniscule number of their high-end handwired amps as compared to their large-production items. But they offer the ultra high-end amps for the small subset of customers who really care and desire those things. It also does wonders for their brand because even those who can't afford or don't want the fancy stuff associate the cheaper stuff with "quality."

You make a good case. And there are lots of businesses that take a product to the extreme for the few dedicated consumers for the sheer marketing value.



I think the problem with shaving is that it is still viewed by 99.9% of men and women as a chore to be done as quickly as possible. What possible marketing value could a DE safety or straight razor have? It's not like Peavy plastering Eddie Van Halens face all over Guitar Player magazine. He's a rock icon and associating his name to a product sells. I don't see the correlation in shaving. Who's the shaving worlds icon? Nobody is.


And yes, Tiger Woods is not a professional car driver, but he still sells Buicks (or at least he did at one time). So does Gillette want to sign athletes to endorse their products? Hell yeah! But they want them endorsing the cheap mass-produced crap, because that's where the $$$ is.

[GDCarrington]

Proctor and Gamble have had the same marketing and production model for years. Make items in a "reasonable appearing" price range with "sufficient quality" at a high volume to make maximum profit at minimum cost.

The acquistion of AOS can signal three things:
1. P&G is interested in producing high dollar items using store front and web advertising to provide a "luxury" mark. Perhaps they would consider DE as a high dollar limited edition item if the profit was right.
2. P&G is trying to remove competition to its bread and butter lines currently under Gillette to reduce people from moving to other competitors. In this case AOS will begin to reduce overhead costs and try to push the Gillette brand as high end and reduce or eliminate the AOS specialty items.
3. P&G will introduce limited edition but slightly modified versions of Gillette branded items under the AOS banner.

P&G is not normally concerned about niche markets other than elimination of them.

[cswann1]

P&G is not normally concerned about niche markets other than elimination of them.

Truth has a certain ring to it....and that brutha, is singing!

[dmm26]

. . . making a mid-to-higher priced "classic" line of DE razors?

Gillette could make money while at the same time restoring their good name among people who care about quality, history, and Gillette's (former) place as an icon of American innovation.


That's a nice dream and it would be really cool, but I think you have a better chance at winning the lottery my friend.

[New Madrid]

You make a good case. And there are lots of businesses that take a product to the extreme for the few dedicated consumers for the sheer marketing value.



I think the problem with shaving is that it is still viewed by 99.9% of men and women as a chore to be done as quickly as possible. What possible marketing value could a DE safety or straight razor have? It's not like Peavy plastering Eddie Van Halens face all over Guitar Player magazine. He's a rock icon and associating his name to a product sells. I don't see the correlation in shaving. Who's the shaving worlds icon? Nobody is.


And yes, Tiger Woods is not a professional car driver, but he still sells Buicks (or at least he did at one time). So does Gillette want to sign athletes to endorse their products? Hell yeah! But they want them endorsing the cheap mass-produced crap, because that's where the $$$ is.

Good point about the endorsements. I hadn't thought of that.

[Topgumby]

It's the same story with another P&G brand, Old Spice. Why would they bring back the Shulton formula, glass bottles or shaving soap when they have spent a ton of money touting how the new products are better?

We aren't enough of an influence. End of story.

[michiganlover]

There is no way Gillette will ever make DE razors again. Your chances are better of being struck by lightening. :lol::lol:

Simply put, there isn't enough volume to be sold, or money to be made for them to be interested.

A high end razor is a one time purchase, and after that point Gillette makes no further money from the customer, as they have umpteen choices for DE blades. If designed well enough, it will last the user the rest of their life.

Let's assume that Gillette in their magic as a corporate giant gets the price down to $150 per DE razor.

Gillette Fusion ProGlide: $10
Pack of Fusion ProGlide (4 cartridges) refills: $17 (last one month)

12 x 17 = $204 (a years supply of blades) + $10 for the cost of the razor. Total for first year: $214.

In year one alone they have already made $64 more than they would selling the DE razor.

The life a cartridge razor is roughly five years (the newest, and greatest razor typically debuts once every five years). So using the data above, Gillette makes a total of $1,030.00 off of each Fusion ProGlide user for the lifetime of the razor.

When you look at those numbers, it makes ZERO economic sense whatsoever for Gillette to even think about selling a new DE razor. For every person they convert to a DE razor, they stand to lose $880.

But that $880 lost is only for the lifetime of the Fusion ProGlide razor. Assuming the converted customer continues to use their DE razor for the rest of their lifetime, Gillette is losing potentially $1,030 every five years, as that customer won't be being any of Gillette's new products either.

[Drubbing]

You missed the point. It's not about making money. It's about creating a flagship, small-production "classic" line for people like us.

I don't mind being refuted, but at least refute the idea as presented.

Fender and Marshall sell a miniscule number of their high-end handwired amps as compared to their large-production items. But they offer the ultra high-end amps for the small subset of customers who really care and desire those things. It also does wonders for their brand because even those who can't afford or don't want the fancy stuff associate the cheaper stuff with "quality."

OK, I'll refute better. Gillette already have a 'Flagship'. It's called whatever iteration of the Fusion they're currently selling. To do anything else, would send its market a message that its standard line of products is not the best a man can get.

A Top Gumpy said, and I agree with, they have no interest in making a high end razor that evokes something you happen to find classy and nostalgic. It goes against their entire marketing concept for the last 30 years.

Fender and car companies can get away with selling nostalgia, and packaging it up at a premium, for baby boomers who wanted a car that looked like Elvis' or a reproduction of Eric Clapton fav Strat, without devaluing its regular consumer lines one iota. The odd younger buyer may get the cool factor of these too, and add to a few sales. However, these companies haven't poured countless millions of dollars into selling the idea that these classics are obselete. Gillette has.

No one has suggested you haven't a nice idea. But you're not the first to suggest it. The market for a classic high-end razor already exists, and you're already talking to many of them. Gillette aren't interested in people like us.

[cswann1]

Gillette aren't interested in people like us.

Wow....condensed to it's purest form. well done.

[Loric]

I realized that Gillette has done everything they can to distance them self's from their historic "name and history" you see ZERO about any of it in their adds. That shows alot of intent to me. I knew they made DE's as my Grandfather had one, but other than that sub conscious recognition I never knew about any of their history until I started wet shaving and reading here at B&B.

[cswann1]

I realized that Gillette has done everything they can to distance them self's from their historic "name and history" you see ZERO about any of it in their adds. That shows alot of intent to me. I knew they made DE's as my Grandfather had one, but other than that sub conscious recognition I never knew about any of their history until I started wet shaving and reading here at B&B.

Well I don't know if it was a conscious decision to distance themselves so much as a move to a different business model, which is more profit driven. Such is the nature of business in a capitalist environment.

As it's been mentioned, Gillette is a name-only part of P&G. P&G is not concerned with nostalgia or anything associated with Gillettes history.

The OP made a good post with a nice idea. It'll never happen for reasons that have been stated pretty clearly I think.

[kfreeman]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before (I didn't see it) but there's also something to be said for the fact that I picked up 2 SuperSpeeds for $8.00US and they're in great shape and perfectly usable... I mean these things are practically LAYING around... And those of us who would be interested in something like a reproduction know about this fact.

[RayH]

P&G is not normally concerned about niche markets other than elimination of them.

And they are well on their way toward that.

[knlgskr]

Outstanding thread, with logic instead of emotion; orchids to all participants.

Your money, shave with what you like and like with what you shave; may you always be able to obtain/acquire your preference(s). History including that of shaving doesn't seem to be of much interest nowadays but mayhap and perchance that which does not have a past may not have a future and whilst ignorance in the short run may be bliss; most of us who are members of this august group are probably of the "long run" philosophy.

Don't stop thinking about tomorrow? Should we also forget yesterday? Methinks not.

[Dyl]

If Gillette puts anything new and high end in the AOS stores, it would still only be properly manufactured handles that would fit their own patent blades.

Sell a man a High-end Fusion handle for $100 he still has to purchase the blades from you too.
Sell a man a High-end DE for $100 he can say 'thank you' and use your competitors blades.
The logic of a DE razor runs counter to the model by which Procter & Gamble run Gillette.

[wulfgar1976]

It is most likely that Gillette would not want to do anything that promotes DE shaving in the markets where they sell large volumes of cartridge razors. For example, Gillette could sell their DE razor blades in Western countries but, for some reason, they choose not to. Wilkinson Sword do, as do a few other brands, so it must be profitable enough that a multinational like Gillette could also make a profit.

Fender and Marshall sell a lot of vintage reissue items because many guitarists feel that the old designs were better and they are willing to pay a higher price if they know that the products are made of better materials and are subject to higher standards of quality control. Most people don't look at razors in that way, and we are very much the exception to the general rule that the new designs are considered an improvement over the old. That is precisely what Gillette want people to believe and so, unlike Fender and Marshall, they are not going to look back at their past with nostalgia and take people on a trip down memory lane. They have their eyes firmly set on the future with new designs, new gimmicks and ad campaigns with razors made of plastic whose patents will keep their shareholders fat with the profits from cartridges for many years to come.

[DamnFineBob]

Proctor & Gamble... I mean, Gillette would probably do this only if they made the razor to take a blade that is different dimensionally from anything on the market, thus available only fom them. Of course, they'd have to show this new blade has unique features in order to patent it, so they'll have to say its "precision micro-beveled with a self-honing unobtanium plating and lubricating micro-sphere metalurgy":lol:

[Go West Young Man]

I've said it a million times, but it never seems stick sink in -

P+G (which is Gillette) DOES distribute a line of high quality shave products. It's called The Art of Shave, and y'all rag on it for being overpriced and common.


It's a genius move - they can distribute high volume / low cost products under the Gillette name and and low volume / high cost products under the AoS name, without diluting either brand. Profit is maximized at BOTH ends of the market.

[lstorie1971]

I can buy a vintage razor at an antique shop for less than $20, so I doubt I would pay what they would charge for a brand new vintage razor.

[Compaq]

Gillette has been advertising for their modern razors as "the best a man can get" for a long time. Now, suddenly starting a campaign for the traditional DE razors wouldn't actually be natural.

Think about: Gillette releases three new traditional models, and says that "with this razor you're going to shave the way your grandpa did, yet get the best shave available". That's a bit contradicting, as Gillette seems claims that the more blades and the shorter time it takes, the better the razor is. Launching a bit campaign for a razor that takes weeks, perhaps months, in getting the technique, wouldn't be very natural.

Gillette has had such strong opinions about what is the best razor, and so I think Gillette will have to keep following their current path and trick the people in buying their products.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

P&G has sullied the name so much that they will never get another dime out of me for shaving products-----I can't get away from them on soap and shampoo--but the soap is still cheap and a bottle of shampoo lasts a year since I keep my hair so short.

[wulfgar1976]

P&G has sullied the name so much that they will never get another dime out of me for shaving products-----I can't get away from them on soap and shampoo--but the soap is still cheap and a bottle of shampoo lasts a year since I keep my hair so short.

I must say that, after boycotting their cartridges for so long, I was surprised to find myself liking their 7 O'Clock blades so much. It's probably more accurate to say that the blades are made under licence with Gillette branding but since they are putting their name to a quality product I don't mind buying them.

[cswann1]

I've said it a million times, but it never seems stick sink in -

P+G (which is Gillette) DOES distribute a line of high quality shave products. It's called The Art of Shave, and y'all rag on it for being overpriced and common.


It's a genius move - they can distribute high volume / low cost products under the Gillette name and and low volume / high cost products under the AoS name, without diluting either brand. Profit is maximized at BOTH ends of the market.

Cool. Thanks for the info. :thumbup1:

[M80]

i can buy a vintage razor at an antique shop for less than $20, so i doubt i would pay what they would charge for a brand new vintage razor.

+1

Vintage razors are not like antique cars and guitars, rare and expensive. You have to remember every man in the world had a few of these kicking around. Anyone who wants a DE can find a perfectly serviceable vintage one for under $20. Why would I want to pay a premium for a copy of a razor, when I can buy the original for cheaper, and it will shave just as well and last just as long?

[shecky]

I dunno... It seems to me that the Gillette name has been and continues to be capitalized on quite well.

It is a bit of a mystery to my why the Gillette name has almost no current presence in the American DE market. But I suspect it has to do with the fact that DE market in America is a pretty small sliver of the shaving market supply.

[MPruett]

We're far more likely to see a high-end Mach-3 (or whatever the flavor of the month is) with a vintage-looking stainless or plated brass handle. Or for that matter, release one of the AOS handles as the spiffy Gillette high end razor.

They're unlikely to re-release their old models for the reasons everyone's already stated.

[taffy]

Its a lovely idea, gilette reproducing some of thier classic razors, but boy, would they charge for it, plus i would think they would not actually make them, but ask another company to make them, then just brand them as gilettes, but in reality, they wont do it as then its a given sign that thier multi cartridge razors are not that good:blushing:

[damooshki]

I dunno... It seems to me that the Gillette name has been and continues to be capitalized on quite well.

It is a bit of a mystery to my why the Gillette name has almost no current presence in the American DE market. But I suspect it has to do with the fact that DE market in America is a pretty small sliver of the shaving market supply.

+1 My thoughts exactly.

[steveclarkus]

They would just have them made in Asia or some third world country and we can already buy those.

[troy1979]

money/profit

[ouch]

Gillette's sales model: cheap handle to get you started, expensive cartridges that you have to buy. This makes them ridiculous amounts of money every year

To then put out a razor that is expensive but has 10 cent blades that can be bought from any blade maker and shaves better than those super expensive cartridges that you have to buy from them doesn't make any sense.

This.

[Drubbing]

I've said it a million times, but it never seems stick sink in -

P+G (which is Gillette) DOES distribute a line of high quality shave products. It's called The Art of Shave, and y'all rag on it for being overpriced and common.

It's a genius move - they can distribute high volume / low cost products under the Gillette name and and low volume / high cost products under the AoS name, without diluting either brand. Profit is maximized at BOTH ends of the market.

They don't advertise the fact though, do they or put Gillette's name to anything? And AoS wasn't their idea, they bought it because it was profitable. It's part of attacking the niche market - if you can't beat it, buy it.

[pauls51]

It reminds me of those newsagency specials! Where each week you collect a different part of a model train for example and with it comes an explanation and historical reading etc.. The first issue is 9.95 (Gillette Fusion handle and a couple of blades), then every edition after that is 15.95 (Cartridge replacements)..

Profits are obviously satisfactory for P&G, so why further delve into a niche market when they obviously already own AOS....

[Jfunk]

They could make a new razor, but nobody here would really like it.

The current Gillette products are mostly sold at "value" locations such as Target and Walmart. To sell enough razors, they would have to price themselves at around 20 to 25 dollars max or they would really limit the number of units that people would be willing to buy.

At this price point, the razors would need to be made in China/India/Egypt of less expensive materials with less quality control. It would have to be very gentle so people are not cutting themselves up too bad. To me, this sounds like a "Tech clone" style razor which can be had cheaply already from most shaving online stores or Ebay.

The B&B review would be "...light weight and mild with blemishes in the chrome...good for a noob loking for his/her first razor..."

For 10 dollars less you could have a vintage Tech and for 10 dollars more you could have a HD... either way a "Gillette Classic" would hold little interest for most here.

[Topgumby]

"Hey, boss, I've got an idea for the next marketing brainstormer."

"Yes, Dithers, what is it this time?"

"This is so cool...you know how retro is in right now...we bring back the Super Speed in a special Nostalgia Edition!"

"Dithers, what in the Hell is a Super Speed? Is it something those Energizer battery buggers have planned for the Schick line?"

"Not exactly, sir. It's a razor that the old Gillette company sold in the 1950's! Apparently there is a small community of shaving enthusiasts who think it's better than anything we make today!"

"Dithers, you may have something. It takes ProGlide cartridges, right?"

"Err, no sir. It takes old style blades...you can buy ten for less than two dollars."

"Blades that we make...ten for two dollars! That's two cartridges at a buck a pop! Who am I going to have to fire!"

"Uhhh, no sir, they aren't cartridges, they are blades, and we don't make them anymore. In fact, anybody can make the blades. The patents were up ages ago."

"Are you feeling well, Dithers?"

"Yes sir."

"Well, these Super Speed handles, what sort of injection molding would we need..."

"Err, they are made of metal....plated brass. They last forever."

"Dithers, you're an idiot. But, you still may have something."

"What's that, sir?"

"I see a new line of ProGlides...the 'ProGlide Super Speed Classic'. We color the handle silver, like plated brass, and put a picture of Tiger driving a Woody on the package, and charge an extra ten bucks for it! Maybe we get that guy who played Fonzie to be in a new commercial..."

[GDCarrington]

P&G could choose to close AOS today and not have a major amount of corporate grief. Before we place the blame solely on P&G, Gillette also handled many of it premium lines of the past in the same way.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s the high priced low volume Colton (Nine Flags Cologne) and Eve of Roma (Cosmetic) lines and distribution centers were disbanded because Gillette had too much overhead for items that were not able to develop a mass market penetration. So Gillette once had lines very similar in cache to AOS and shut them down and continued to open up new products that were able to make greater RONA (Return on Net Assets).

Many of the large companies simply have a very difficult time living with small economy of scale products. R&D is usually for the large corporations done within large product lines to allow for write offs and higher RONA.

As has been said repeatedly, P&G Gillette is interested in the 95% market not the 5% market because there is no profit and no motivation for them other than to decrease the DE market to zero and they are doing it all over the world. Today and in the future, this is what Gillette is, "modern plastic multi-blade cartridge razors and highest profit margin accessories." Today and in the future, this is what Gillette is not, "historical, high quality DE razors and lower profit margin accessories," which is what we want to have. AOS is a flea on the elephant known a P&G Gillette. Here are prime examples from India of Gillette's goal.

Quote from following marketing plan:

Gillette’s Strategy in India
The Indian shaving products market is characterized by a 97% share of double-edged blades - a business dominated by the Malhotras, with brands like Topaz and Panama. Instead of going head-on against them in this highly price-sensitive market, ISPL has chosen to focus on premium products. The strategy has been to bring more people into the twin-edged segment, and then gradually move them towards even more premium products. Also, by segmenting the market with offerings at different price points - 7 O'Clock, Sensor and Mach III, ISPL offers a continuing upgrade path for users.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6139381/GIllette-Marketing-Report

Gillette Shave India Campaign

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Gillette - Women Against Lazy Stubble Campaign commercial

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Once the women are banded together through advertising then P&G will have a VERY EASY ROAD TO VICTORY. Overall men will not be able to long forbear the pressure to conform to find a moment's piece in the house.

Fathers are also in the crosshairs.

Gillette Vector

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[Go West Young Man]

They don't advertise the fact though, do they or put Gillette's name to anything?

No, but that's the point. As a brand, AoS is completely unrelated to Gillette. Guys who look down at massmarket products will gladly overpay at AoS and feel satisfied with their purchases, and the same will happen at the other end of the market with Gillette products.

$$$ flows into the same account at the end of the day.

[umm_bacon]

It is difficult for me to answer the question in the title of the thread without sounding rude. I do not have a business history. I have a social work degree and that does not provide me with economic theory and such. There are also many responses much more eloquent than what I could come up with.

A corporation is not going to do something that does not maximize profit or serve a specific ulterior motive (thereby maximizing profit). It would cost more money than it is worth to manufacture new DE razors like the old Super Speeds, Techs, etc., and the niche market of B&B folks do not present a negative political or PR element that must be addressed via a corporation doing something to appease the masses. The good thing is that this leaves room for small, dedicated operations to try and fill the niche market. I think it very likely that there will be additional manufacturers pop up similar to iKon in the future, but giant corporations are highly unlikely to be in the situation that they feel that making new old school DE’s will ease any public image pressure.

That is my bleeding heart liberal take. Peace.

[umm_bacon]

It is difficult for me to answer the question in the title of the thread without sounding rude. I do not have a business history. I have a social work degree and that does not provide me with economic theory and such. There are also many responses much more eloquent than what I could come up with.

A corporation is not going to do something that does not maximize profit or serve a specific ulterior motive (thereby maximizing profit). It would cost more money than it is worth to manufacture new DE razors like the old Super Speeds, Techs, etc., and the niche market of B&B folks do not present a negative political or PR element that must be addressed via a corporation doing something to appease the masses. The good thing is that this leaves room for small, dedicated operations to try and fill the niche market. I think it very likely that there will be additional manufacturers pop up similar to <A HREF="http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Banned_Filtered_Vendor">*Filtered Vendor*</A> in the future, but giant corporations are highly unlikely to be in the situation that they feel that making new old school DE’s will ease any public image pressure.

That is my bleeding heart liberal take. Peace.

Sorry. Didn't know said vendor was filtered...

[New Madrid]

Although many chimed in just to say, in essence, "You're a moron--Gillette would never consider such a craptastic idea," or "You're a moron--we've criticized this idea before--don't make us do it again!," I'm impressed by the number of theories posited here. I'm also impressed with the number of different ways people can express, "Wow, what a stupid idea."

Though, I can't help but think that all the vitriol directed at my post is motivated by something other than my lack of two brain cells to rub together. Maybe a transfer of deep, festering anti-Gillette sentiment?

In any case, thank you to those who have helped to flesh out the current Gillette conundrum. I learned a thing or two about our favorite company.

[Go West Young Man]

Not sure anyone called you a moron that I can see? Your argument was critiqued, not criticized.

[GDCarrington]

Not sure anyone called you a moron that I can see? Your argument was critiqued, not criticized.

+1 to the comment

[Drubbing]

Although many chimed in just to say, in essence, "You're a moron--Gillette would never consider such a craptastic idea," or "You're a moron--we've criticized this idea before--don't make us do it again!,"

Though, I can't help but think that all the vitriol directed at my post is motivated by something other than my lack of two brain cells to rub together. Maybe a transfer of deep, festering anti-Gillette sentiment?


No one ever suggested that. Thing is, this idea has come up many many times before.

There probably is some anti Gilletteism on here. Could come from those who put up with bad shaves for years, or those who resent being made to pay obscene amounts if they got a good one.

I couldn't care less what Gillette do next, or how much cash they make from it. I'm off the train.

[Hank21]

P&G paid $57 billion dollars to buy Gillette 5 years ago.

[Zen Master Kool-Aid]

Gillette isn't in the razor business. They're in the cartridge business.

[woodfluter]

I think the responses generally reflected an analysis indicating that it just wouldn't make sense for Gillette/P&G to do that presently. I agree.

But that doesn't make it a stupid question at all. Consider all the interesting replies. This was worthwhile, enough so for many to read posts and offer thoughts.

- Bill

[Jfunk]

New Madrid, I fully think that there is a business model for a new razor. When you factor in that P&G has so many health and beauty products that could be cross promoted with this razor to make a classic and/or near-luxury line for men including brushes, bowls, carbonfiber/wood grain handles, stands, etc. My only concern is that as the company looks at risk and reward, and the upside of several million dollars is not worth the 10% or so of men who could potentially leave the cartridge for the DE.

Gillette was a specialize company. They did razors and shaving and they had to be of a certain quality or there name would be mud (look at how Parker razors are talked about). P&G does everything. Quality is measured by how much of the market they control. Quality is how many razors can be sold which involves cheap production as well as planned obsolescences, where a DE would generally break in three to five years.

[AlanL]

I recently wrote to "Gillette" to express my opinion that it was quite a shame they no longer manufacture DE razors. "P&G" was at least kind enough to reply:


Hi Alan,

Thanks for writing.

I'm sorry to hear you are so disappointed that our double-edge safety razors have been discontinued. Generally, decisions to start or stop making products are based on consumer demand, so feedback like yours is extremely valuable. Please be assured I'm sharing your disappointment with the rest of our team.

Since I don’t have a recommendation for you at this time, you may want to check our brand websites for information about our current products. You might find a new favorite!

Thanks again for contacting us.

V****, Gillette Team
Currently, I think their notion of "demand" is what they want to market to us. Is their marketing department even aware that there are several communities like B&B? Maybe if more of us write to them, they'll appreciate that there actually is a demand.

[BBrad]

I recently wrote to "Gillette" to express my opinion that it was quite a shame they no longer manufacture DE razors. "P&G" was at least kind enough to reply:


Hi Alan,

Thanks for writing.

I'm sorry to hear you are so disappointed that our double-edge safety razors have been discontinued. Generally, decisions to start or stop making products are based on consumer demand, so feedback like yours is extremely valuable. Please be assured I'm sharing your disappointment with the rest of our team.

Since I don’t have a recommendation for you at this time, you may want to check our brand websites for information about our current products. You might find a new favorite!

Thanks again for contacting us.

V****, Gillette Team
Currently, I think their notion of "demand" is what they want to market to us. Is their marketing department even aware that there are several communities like B&B? Maybe if more of us write to them, they'll appreciate that there actually is a demand.

The intended purpose of marketing is to influence market demand. Marketing of "modern" products (with their enhanced profitability) resulted in a decreased demand for DE razors, which in turn led to their discontinuance.

While we within this classic-wetshaving brotherhood constitute a "demand element", our niche is but a drop in the proverbial bucket when compared to the overwhelming number of customers who don't know what a DE razor looks like, let alone how to use one!

At least it was polite of them to respond, albeit with a form letter containing the mindless phrase inviting you to check the website for current products that might become your new favorite!! :lol:

[AlanL]

All good points, Brad.

But if the market is large enough to support endeavors by several companies in several countries (Merkur, Parker, Weishi, Edwin Jagger, Muhle, Feather, etc.) that constitutes a certain demand. But even so, it might be small beans to a conglomerate like Proctor and Gamble. I suppose if they wanted market share, they would just buy up these other companies.

Frankly I'm not too regretful at Gillette's cessation of DE manufacturing. If they were still at it, I'm sure that by now the quality would be so bad it wouldn't be worth buying.

[cswann1]

Currently, I think their notion of "demand" is what they want to market to us. Is their marketing department even aware that there are several communities like B&B? Maybe if more of us write to them, they'll appreciate that there actually is a demand.

Well, we're a "Niche" market. Large companies do sometimes venture away from the mainstream IF the numbers add up to a profit.

But their marketing analysts may have just decided that this particular niche has several manufacturers/vendors that are satisfying market demand and that it's just not cost effective for them. If there were several thousands of folks that wanted to spend money but the products we wanted just weren't readily available, you can bet that some large company would jump in to fill that void.

[DE Shaver]

Profit is maximized at BOTH ends of the market.

This is Gilettes (and any corporation) main goal. Profit maximization is what they are expected to do first and foremost by their shareholders. Their motivations will be tempered with expectation. Conspiracy theories aside, Gilette will do what it is in their best interests, financially speaking. That goes for everyone else for that matter for it is the very core of human actuation.

[LouieGrandie]

In today's business world P & G would not re-tool to start building DE razors again they would instead purchase a company such as Parker and put it's name on it. For example, does P & G / Gillette make the 7'OClock blades or does other companies?

[AlanL]

So an interesting question: If Gillette still made your favorite Gillette razor, what is that razor and how much would you pay for it today? How many would you buy? Or maybe you'd buy a brand new Fat Boy, plus a Slim, plus a Super Speed. All brand-spanky new in boxes.

[Wil Dorenbos]

Why on earth would Proctor and Gamble (Gillette is merely a brand name now) put out a product that runs counter to the advertising they've spent millions and millions on?

+1 they do not want us to shave DE, so why make de razors?

[gull]

What Gillette should do is increase the prices of their cartridges! :w00t:

[GDCarrington]

What Gillette should do is increase the prices of their cartridges! :w00t:

The price increase is more than likely set on a 4 to 7% incremental per year to stay ahead of the now non existent (0%) consumer product inflation rate :thumbdown!

[Drubbing]

There's also diminishing returns on investment. P&G has around 70%+ of the shaving market.

It's like efficiency at our work. I asked our ops manager why we couldn't reduce error rates even further. He said he's got to accept around 7% for our industry, as the majority of errors occur because of people, not processes. The investment required to get an couple of % would cost far more than the resources used, and would require ongoing higher levels of investment to keep it there. So a decision is made to 'save' that money and use it elsewhere.

If DE shavers constitute 5% of the market, I see the same concepts at play for P&G. We're just not worth it, especially when they have 20% of cartridge shavers using other brands to focus on.

[DonN]

to make it simple , let's take the Fat Boy - suppose the decision makers at P&G woke up one day and said why don't we create a small Gillette division to bring back Fatty - here are some thoughts that may go through their minds : (1) can we find artisans and can we resurect the manufacturing to recreate Fatty exactly - using Mr. FB currently I for one would only settle for exactly the same - just like when the Beetle came back - it wasn't like the original - us Boomers remember one Beetle not a reasonable facsimile thereof (2) and artisans - I have 2 electromechanical pin ball machines - ever try finding someone to fix them - it's tough - pinballs now are electronic with throw away & replace circuit boards - you get my point - the top dogs at P&G could set up that Mr. FB division but they would want to get a ROI in a reasonably short period of time - I think the retro tooling involved would necessitate a large price tag for Fatty - one that most DE users would find prohibitive - let's face it I think most DE users/collectors would find it a big stretch these days to pay more than a bill for Fatty - would they pay over a $1000 - it could be priced at least that high for the P&G bigs to recoup startup costs.

[LouieGrandie]

to make it simple , let's take the Fat Boy - suppose the decision makers at P&G woke up one day and said why don't we create a small Gillette division to bring back Fatty - - I think the retro tooling involved would necessitate a large price tag for Fatty -

And I am saying they would NOT do that. If they woke up one day and say "why don't we bring back the Fat Boy" they would instead look around for an established razor company such as Parker, buy them, stick the Gillette name on their products and go with that. Let me ask you one thing. The Gillette 7 O'Clock blades, who do you think makes those? Gillette or someone else?

[Mike Schutz]

I use a Gillette razor every day. It's either a Fat Boy or a Slim, because I want a good shave.

I own PG stock in my portfolio because they are a very good marketing company selling middle of the road product to the masses.

They will never have a high end, quality Gillette product. It doesn't fit their scheme. The jury is still out on AoS. It is a good product but I don't see how it will fit into the PG scheme for the long haul. If they really would want to sell a DE razor, they could buy Merkur. They've been bought and sold in the past. It could happen again. Besides, they sell some Merkur product in AoS stores at inflated prices.

[takeshi]

The B&B community is small but growing rapidly, as numerous articles attest.
Discussion forum enthusiasts frequently overestimate the percentage of the market that they represent. For a company like P&G/Gillette, our numbers -- even if you add the enthusiasts on all the other shaving sites -- are insignificant.


They would (that is, should) do it for the same reason many auto makers produce small numbers of specialty cars
Terrible example IMO. I mean, Honda recently killed production of my car to focus on more efficient cars demanded by the market. The new NSX was axed and relegated to racing only. Money does matter, especially to publicly traded companies that have to answer to shareholders. That said, you're right that there are automakers that still do this but the state of the economy has put this into a bit of a decline.


What's so crazy about that?
There's nothing crazy about the idea in general. It's just crazy IMO to expect P&G/Gillette to do this. What actions have they taken to indicate to you that they would even consider it? Their history doesn't seem to indicate that they would be likely to take this route to me. Do they have any niche products? It's also not as if there aren't other companies already occupying the niche.

[moshulu]

The OP's idea is an excellent one, and I suspect that the reason it has not been implemented has nothing to do with economics. After all, lots of companies (Merkur, Edwin Jagger, etc.) make money selling DE razors. So why hasn't it happened? Probably simply because they haven't gotten around to it or it never occurred to them (these are the reasons most sensible things don't get done in this world). Also, as some of the more reasonable people have pointed out, the DE revival is too new and too small. Given time, it could well happen.

I'm always surprised by the hostile feelings about Gillette in B&B postings, and also at the prevalence of anti-business sentiment coming from the mostly-American members of the Forum. It's a very different image of America from the one we normally have in Europe. Personally, I don't share the above feelings. I use the excellent Gillette DE blades and I'm glad they bought AOS, whose unscented cream I also use. I'm a DE shaver, but I think Mach 3 cartridges work well, even though they are horribly over-priced. I don't buy them, and I don't hate Gillette. Why should I?

[Go West Young Man]

I'm always surprised by the hostile feelings about Gillette in B&B postings, and also at the prevalence of anti-business sentiment coming from the mostly-American members of the Forum. It's a very different image of America from the one we normally have in Europe.

B+B is a self-selecting subgroup of people with a very specific interest, and discussion boards tend to be dominated by the loudest complainers. We're hardly a representative sample :tongue_sm

[DigDug]

How many more blades can Gillette put on a razor , before they are forced to go into a new direction?

[wulfgar1976]

How many more blades can Gillette put on a razor , before they are forced to go into a new direction?

That's probably why they added battery-powered vibration to their Fusion models. Two blades was gimmick enough even before they added that silly 'lubra-strip'.

We should run a sweepstake on what direction they go in next.

[talibeard]

They probably never will because there can't be made a lot of money from the blades and they cannot reinstall their patents either. They would simply be one of many producers while they like to present themselves as the only company with a clue about shaving.

[damooshki]

That's probably why they added battery-powered vibration to their Fusion models. Two blades was gimmick enough even before they added that silly 'lubra-strip'.

We should run a sweepstake on what direction they go in next.

I can just see Gillette coming out with a laser that singes the hair right off your face. Powered by enriched uranium, all of course contained in a disposable head and good for only a week of shaves. The handle would still only be a couple bucks, but the carts would be an outrageous sum.:tongue_sm

[apino]

I think the comparison between possible Gillette DE remakes and the high-end product lines from Gibson, Fender etc. is an interesting one.

No doubt the new DE Gillettes would cost a lot - but nowhere near a custom Gibson Les Paul, of course. So switching from Fusions would be much less painful for the wallet than switching to a Custom from an Epiphone Les Paul (which in itself is a considerable investment for many).

Now, imagine the word starting to spread about this new Gillette that not only shaves exceptionally but also turns out to be very affordable when you compare it to buying Fusion etc. cartridges for the rest of your life. Add to that the nostalgia factor (fuelled by Mad Men etc. and longing for those "better times") which could very well spur the sales further.

I don't know how effective or widespread this kind of word-of-mouth could be (I'm no market researcher), though in these times of communication possibilities it's always a risk. Even one "DE convert" from the Fusion camp would nevertheless mean a lot of money lost for Gillette.

I'm not sure if I'd like to see a "vintage" product line from Gillette. I doubt the quality would be anywhere near the same. Sadly.

[Go West Young Man]

Now, imagine the word starting to spread about this new Gillette that not only shaves exceptionally but also turns out to be very affordable when you compare it to buying Fusion etc. cartridges for the rest of your life.

You mean that razor that takes twice as long to shave with, gives you nasty razor burn if you're not careful and at the best of times needs a month of practice before you even start getting decent results?

Face it, this is a niche market.

[GDCarrington]

You mean that razor that takes twice as long to shave with, gives you nasty razor burn if you're not careful and at the best of times needs a month of practice before you even start getting decent results?

Face it, this is a niche market.

However, it was a niche I had to scratch :tongue_sm!

[apino]

You mean that razor that takes twice as long to shave with, gives you nasty razor burn if you're not careful and at the best of times needs a month of practice before you even start getting decent results?

Face it, this is a niche market.

Hey, Way Of Slow will be the hottest trend by then then (circa 2100) and we'll all have as much freetime as we care to ask from the boss! :laugh: (Well, not we in the literal sense)

[mretzloff]

Gillette will never, ever sell a DE. Why? Because they make most of their money off of the refill cartridges they sell. Out of all the men and women I know who use Gillette cartridge razors, only one has purchased the actual razor. Giving away free razors in hopes that people will use it and then purchase expensive cartridge refills generates more profit than selling a mid-price razor and inexpensive blades. From a business standpoint, selling DEs would be an awful, awful mistake for Gillette.

[SiBurning]

P&G is well known for their marketing genius, and has even created advertising campaigns pitting two of their products against each other. Take your pick, they win either way. It seems to me that they bought AoS and Gillette because they're interested in these market segments. What they end up doing with these "high end" brands is open to debate, but they'll find a way to make money on them if they can. That excerpt from the marketing report from Gilette India seems to tell their current strategy. Meanwhile, it seems like they're not entirely sure what to do. One thing's for sure. If there's a decent market for high end DE razors, they'll be there. And it seems like they're setting themselves up for this. The last thing they want to do is kill off a product because they don't know where the customers will go. Now, if they have the competing products for customers to switch from their cartridges to their DE, then they can face off the competition and withstand any backlash, and that allows some very aggressive marketing strategies. They love marketing niches, but they'll only divide if they can conquer both sides.

Oh, they're watching B&B to stay ahead of any developing trends, for sure.

[apino]

And it seems like they're setting themselves up for this.

Seems like it, based on what? Something in the marketing report?


Oh, they're watching B&B to stay ahead of any developing trends, for sure.

They're doing this, no doubt.

[dirtdog]

How many more blades can Gillette put on a razor , before they are forced to go into a new direction?

I hear you loud and clear.
When the four blade came out I was like What ?
Then the 5 blade ??? LOL

A six blade would be insane

[Go West Young Man]

A six blade would be insane


I hate to be the one to break this to you, but......

[SiBurning]

Seems like it, based on what? Something in the marketing report?

Here's the post I was referring to.

Quote from following marketing plan:

Gillette’s Strategy in India
The Indian shaving products market is characterized by a 97% share of double-edged blades - a business dominated by the Malhotras, with brands like Topaz and Panama. Instead of going head-on against them in this highly price-sensitive market, ISPL has chosen to focus on premium products. The strategy has been to bring more people into the twin-edged segment, and then gradually move them towards even more premium products. Also, by segmenting the market with offerings at different price points - 7 O'Clock, Sensor and Mach III, ISPL offers a continuing upgrade path for users.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6139381/GIllette-Marketing-Report
The quote from that marketing report said something about moving people up to high end products. Since they're using DEs in India... Okay, this is a stretch, but AoS gives P&G a hand in the high end market, which helps them understand that market. For now, maybe they're following the trend, which is to say there seems to be a lot of people looking for high end products and all the reports seems to indicate that DE usage is up lately. Remember, I'm talking about Gillette (and AoS) as brands within a much larger P&G, so it's okay for P&G if Gillette customers go to AoS (although I think the Gillette branded employees would try to stop that).

From reading industry reports, as well as stuff on P&G's website, they're trying to capture the men's grooming market, which has been growing rapidly lately. From those same reports, no one really seems to know exactly how to do that.

Here's some background:
http://www.gcimagazine.com/marketstrends/consumers/men/12307996.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/business/management/smallbusiness/17156271.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/marketstrends/consumers/men/36235724.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/marketstrends/consumers/men/41099052.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/marketstrends/segments/hair/50231887.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/business/manufacturing/packaging/69586852.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/marketstrends/consumers/men/69588992.html
http://www.gcimagazine.com/marketstrends/consumers/men/69565577.html?utm_source=Most+Read&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=Most+Read

And some other related industry stuff
http://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/formulating/category/menscare/4834601.html
http://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/formulating/category/menscare/27670799.html
http://www.pginvestor.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=104574&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1436032&highlight=
http://www.pgbeautygroomingscience.com/research.html
http://www.pgbeautygroomingscience.com/resources.html
http://www.ctpa.org.uk/
http://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/research/chemistry/50786997.html
http://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/research/methodsprocesses/37534339.html

[apino]

Thanks for the clarification, SiBurning! Very interesting.

It seems you've gone through several of these reports. Have you come across any "data" the market research department(s) have gathered regarding the renewed interest in DE shaving? Their speculation about the demand for a higher end product line sounds interesting indeed. Being a sociologist by education, I'm kind of programmed (or brainwashed :001_smile) to take interest this kind of stuff (the dynamics of subcultures vs. mainstream culture, trends, consumption as a means of social disctinction and blah blah).

In another thread I was curious if there's been any media coverage there in the U.S. or any other "cultural signs" (apart from the soaring eBay prices!) of the resurgence of DE shaving. Not to say the phenomenon isn't recognized by everyone on this board without any research. I think if I were writing my thesis today, I'd like to look into the shaving culture in Finland - man, what a quick read that would make. :lol:

[SiBurning]

Nothing "scientific" <<cough>> Only what's been pointed out here. The resurgence seems to have been mentioned in a lot of places online. The only "facts" I can account for are in the industry numbers in those reports, but they're not broken down far enough to refer specifically to DE razors--only to the male market segment. I do seem to remember that the easy growth and upscaling opportunities are on the cleansing side, only tangentially related to shaving.

You'd probably be even more interested in P&G's marketing strategies and research, particularly what it says about human behavior when it comes to making trivial decisions (and maybe you can extrapolate to more important decisions). There's some books written from the ad agency side, but I don't remember which I've read.

[apino]

You'd probably be even more interested in P&G's marketing strategies and research, particularly what it says about human behavior when it comes to making trivial decisions (and maybe you can extrapolate to more important decisions).

I think those kind of subjects will come up at some point as I recently took up usability studies. Very closely connected to the way people make trivial decisions. I know too little about it now though as I'm no social psychologist.

[doublediamond]

I came across this short video and thought it'd be relevant to share. It's about a couple months old, so my apologies if you've already seen it.

http://online.wsj.com/video/investing-in-razor-futures/1F1B0D6A-00CB-4784-8E82-FEF9A5EF3BDF.html

Hopefully you can view it. Nothing really new that hasn't been said here, but nice to see it on screen :biggrin1:.

[apino]

I came across this short video and thought it'd be relevant to share.

Just the kind of stuff I've been looking for, thanks! As I've said, there are so many interesting "dimensions" to the DE shaving phenomenon (if you can call it that) - social, economical, ecological, recreational, even political (!) - that I think it should make for an interesting topic in all of the media.

[firehydrant]

The only way Gillette would go back to the DE is with a new proprietary blade that would only fit a new Gillette DE razor.

[BBrad]

The only way Gillette would go back to the DE is with a new proprietary blade that would only fit a new Gillette DE razor.

Deja-vu all over again . . . 1929 . . . Auto-Strop (Probak) lawsuit . . . Gaisman takes over the company . . . King Gillette is forced out . . .

No . . . probably won't happen!!! :lol::lol::lol:

[ieschwoch]

I realize this is an old thread, but it's an interesting discussion. I think that the P&G acquisition of AoS pretty much answers the original question. In buying AoS, P&G has decided that "gourmet" shaving constitutes a large enough market so as to be profitable. If DE shaving continues growing, I am betting that P&G will buy Merkur and push safety razors as part of an AoS "shaving system." The marketing will be "sure you can get just as good of a shave with a DE as with a Fusion, but you need to buy our fancy creams, aftershaves, and pre-shave oils in order to do so." P&G's market share will ensure that AoS products are the only ones carried in brick-and-mortar stores. I'm pretty sure that P&G can make just as much money off of cream, soap, pre-shave, and aftershave sales as it can off of cartridges if the marketing is done well.

[dude22blue]

But what about the gillette blades? Are these two different companies? Its probably easier to keep a toe in the wet shaving waters and make things that get thrown away (like the blades) and continue selling but not something that will last 20-40+ years (like the razors) and risk have an excess of supply they'll need to give away in the end.

[California Cajun]

. . . making a mid-to-higher priced "classic" line of DE razors?

Picture it: high-quality reissues of your favorite Gillette razors from the past century.

Fender has made a fortune by making new reproductions of its guitar and amplifier models from the fifties and sixties.

American car makers are returning to the design themes of their mid-century glory days.

The B&B community is small but growing rapidly, as numerous articles attest.

Mad Men has caused a spike of interest in men's retro fashions--retro razors are not that far of a stretch.

It seems like the time is right. The (small, but affluent) market is here.

Gillette could make money while at the same time restoring their good name among people who care about quality, history, and Gillette's (former) place as an icon of American innovation.

By making their high end razors DEs, they would be admitting that the razors they switched to after junking DEs are inferior.

[eastomjac]

there we go...http://images-cdn01.associatedcontent.com/image/a4242/42420/300_42420.jpg

hawhawhaw

[ieschwoch]

By making their high end razors DEs, they would be admitting that the razors they switched to after junking DEs are inferior.

I don't think this is necessarily the case. They could release them under a "vintage shaving" line and emphasize that they are for people who want to take a longer time and more technique to shave. A DE is "better" than a cartridge in the same sense that a manual transmission is "better" than an automatic: you can get superior results if you put the time and effort into learning how to use it correctly.

[ZJ68]

The (small, but affluent) market is here.
It wouldn't take a Gillette marketing researcher more than a few minutes on this forum to conclude a large part of the niche market for DE razors is comprised of people who picked it up because they didn't want to pay for cartridges. Far from being an affluent market, the impression is of a very cheap market.

If Gillette did reintroduce classic designs, how much would people here be willing to pay for them? How many of you would pay $50 for a new Super Speed? $40? $25? $16? How about a high quality TTO adjustable? $100? How much would you be willing to spend on really high quality DE blades? Obviously not $4 apiece. How about $2/each? A dollar a blade?

I think the answer is fairly obvious. Gillette isn't going to waste their time making products almost no one will buy.

[gsurko]

I say"To H%$LL with them" I don't want their crap. They couldn't sell us out fast enough, I don't want their old junk and I don't want their new junk, there are companies that want our business and I say "Thank you."

[ieschwoch]

It wouldn't take a Gillette marketing researcher more than a few minutes on this forum to conclude a large part of the niche market for DE razors is comprised of people who picked it up because they didn't want to pay for cartridges. Far from being an affluent market, the impression is of a very cheap market.

If Gillette did reintroduce classic designs, how much would people here be willing to pay for them? How many of you would pay $50 for a new Super Speed? $40? $25? $16? How about a high quality TTO adjustable? $100? How much would you be willing to spend on really high quality DE blades? Obviously not $4 apiece. How about $2/each? A dollar a blade?

I think the answer is fairly obvious. Gillette isn't going to waste their time making products almost no one will buy.

I would pay $50 for a brand-new Super Speed, assuming that it matched the quality of the originals. A Merkur HD is about $40, and it isn't even TTO. I would also be willing to pay around $100 for a brand-new adjustable, especially if it was TTO. Considering that a brand-new Merkur Futur goes for $75-100 and a Vision for more than $130, I am thinking that many other DE shavers would as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gillette/P&G did start producing solid brass safety razors again at some point. The cartridges have been pushed about as far as they can go. Gillette could easily make money off of safety razors as long as they introduce a "new" model every few years or so, and supplement with high-end shaving creams and the like.

[Dalejr]

Everything retro is cool again. P&G if you are reading this, get some new DE razors into production stat!!!

[kingfisher]

It wouldn't take a Gillette marketing researcher more than a few minutes on this forum to conclude a large part of the niche market for DE razors is comprised of people who picked it up because they didn't want to pay for cartridges. Far from being an affluent market, the impression is of a very cheap market.

If Gillette did reintroduce classic designs, how much would people here be willing to pay for them? How many of you would pay $50 for a new Super Speed? $40? $25? $16? How about a high quality TTO adjustable? $100? How much would you be willing to spend on really high quality DE blades? Obviously not $4 apiece. How about $2/each? A dollar a blade?

I think the answer is fairly obvious. Gillette isn't going to waste their time making products almost no one will buy.

I would pay $100 for a new, high-quality adjustable razor, but I definitely wouldn't want to pay the price Gillette would want to charge for DE blades!

The more I think about it, the more I think it's good Gillette DOESN'T want to get into this market; the price of DE blades would probably skyrocket! In a couple of years they'd introduce a new, better coating and charge even MORE.