Lamy Safari vs. ?

[invizable]

I've decided to jump into fountain pens and I'm going to buy a Lamy Safari, fine or ex fine. I'm also going to get some Leuchtturm 1917 journals, a converter, and good ink (haven't decided which black yet).

I think my budget permits another pen (under/around $50) so what else should I check out? Comfort is absolute priority, not looks. I actually prefer the utilitarian look of the Lamy's and also don't want to spend $200 on a pen I will most certainly drop or misplace :) Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Mike

[brianw]

I would skip the LAMY and get a vintage Parker "51", you would never regret it

[Geeno]

I have really enjoyed moving back to fountain pens. I never had a Lamy, but always wanted one...they are nice looking to me.

The best pen I had...bar none...was this one, from this vendor:

http://cgi.ebay.com/WATERMAN-PHILEAS-BLACK-FOUNTAIN-PEN-EF-BRAND-NEW-/200477425790?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Home_Garden_PensPencils_WritingEquipment_SM&hash=item2ead62c07e

This pen, even with the XF nib, was very smooth, a pleasure to write with. Sadly, I lost it. I see the medium nib versions at office supply stores all the time, but I prefer a finer line.

BTW: This is NOT me, I just bought some pens from him.

[mdunn]

Ive a parker vector in brushed stainless that looks a million bucks, and is about the same price as a safari.

the steel nib is also a good one to use when transitioning into fountains, as it can take a fair bit of abuse while you learn to ease way back on pressure when youre writing.

[GarageBoy]

Pilot Prera

[greyantron]

I found the Lamy nibs too rigid and not very responsive.
My preferred pen is the Parker 51, although the Sheaffer equivalent does well.
If you want a modern pen, I dont think you can go past the Parker sonnet, although the Vector is good.
If you are going to use a fountain pen, you need one that suits your writing style. A cheaper pen that feels not quite right simply wont be used, IMHO
MIchael

[elalan]

An Al-Star from Lamy has the same style as the Safari, but is a little more substantial and not so plasticky. You can get them for $35. They, and the Safari, are real workhorses and you can certainly branch out from there. Fountain pens are great, and you will find everyone has their pet pen. Pilot Preras are rather small. 51's have a tremendous reputation, but I have yet to find one that writes a good EF line--you can pick them up for anything from $40 to $400 but you probably won't have a predictable experience with them and end up with five before you find one you like. The Scheaffer snorkel filling mechanism is cool and I have had good luck picking up various restored vintage ones on fountainpennetwork.com for $50 or so. I have had much better experience with Schaeffer than with Parker as far as both vintage and new pens, but that is really only anecdotal and based on less than ten purchases of each.

[pauls51]

I started off with a Lamy Al-Star Graphite EF purchased of Ebay fairly cheaply and a converter. I think all up I paid $35AUD.

Now that I have adjusted my writing to suit a FP, I am looking for a Parker 51 and am prepared to splash a little more coin to get one that I like.

[WECIII]

Just got a Noodler's Ink Fountain Pen in the mail. It is a "medium-fine" nib, and lays down about someplace between a fine and medium line. swisherpens.com had them about a week ago, and mine was something like 19 bucks after shipping. I've got a Lamy I hardly ever use now, a couple vintage Parkers that I love, and a Pilot Knight.

For a pen in your price range, I would honestly go with the Knight (looks more classic, writes well for me) or another less expensive Pilot/Namiki. jetpens.com has a good selection.

To be totally honest though, I do love my new Noodler's pen. Writes really well, and it was pretty inexpensive. Good bargain, though it does sound like you may want a finer line than this lays down.

[chickpea]

Wait and save your pennies for the second pen. After using your Safari you will likely want something like a Pilot Vanishing Point, Lamy 2000, or even Pelikan M200. Trust me on this. After a while you will want an upgrade. The Parker 51 is heralded as the best all time fountain pen bar none. Never had one, don't know, but there are MANY acolytes for that pen. A well restored/kept one should do very well for you. Also, Lamy Safari's are excellent pens, I have one and love it.

[DGS]

Get a restored Parker 51 aerometric fill fountain pen. It is, hands down, the best and most reliable pen ever made. You should easily be able to get one for around your $50 price, in a vast array of colors (as long as it isn't a rare variant, like plum), with the typical brushed steel ("lustraloy") cap. Speaking as a collector with over 20 Parker 51s (both aero fill and vacumatic, some rare and some not), it is still my favorite fountain pen for daily use (and I have had over 300 fountain pens in my collection, both vintage and modern). Go to the Pentrace pen market board and I'm sure you can find one (or place a WTB ad there). http://www.pentrace.net/PenMarket.htm

[invizable]

I managed to find some good deals and got both the classic and the new pen. I love the look of the Safari and it is widely praised, so I bought it (should arrive tomorrow). However, after hearing how great the 51 is, I had to have one. I found a great restored vacumatic on the bay and it is beautiful. I plan on posting a pic tomorrow when the remainder of my purchases arrive.
Thanks for all the advice and for helping me spend more money.
Mike

[DGS]

I managed to find some good deals and got both the classic and the new pen. I love the look of the Safari and it is widely praised, so I bought it (should arrive tomorrow). However, after hearing how great the 51 is, I had to have one. I found a great restored vacumatic on the bay and it is beautiful. I plan on posting a pic tomorrow when the remainder of my purchases arrive.
Thanks for all the advice and for helping me spend more money.
Mike

Let me give you a bit of advice regarding the vacumatic versus the aerometric filler, since you bought a vac. The vac is the earlier filling unit, made from 1941-1948. It is a bit more cumbersome to fill than the aerometric filler (made from 1949 onward). The aerometric is a very simple squeeze filler, which is a soft plastic tube with a metal spring bar over it that you press. The vacumatic filler works differently: you unscrew the "blind cap" (which is a fancy name for the end of the pen barrel), and you will see a plastic rod. You then immerse the nib and tip of the pen in the bottle of ink, while you depress the plastic rod about 10 times, making sure to wait about one or two seconds between each push of the rod. After the last time you push the rod, and while still keeping the pen immersed in the bottle of ink, count off aboput ten seconds, which will allow the pen to suck up more ink into the barrel (vacumatic models actually store ink in the barrel rather than in a rubber ink sac). Then screw the blind cap back on, wipe off the nib end of the pen with a tissue, and you are ready to write!

Another thing you should know about vacumatic filler 51s as opposed to aerometric filler 51s, is that emptying them is a PITA!! The aerometric is easy to empty: you just squeeze the metal bar and soft plastic filling unit, and the ink squirts out. Then you fill with water and empty it the same way, repeating until the water comes out clear. But with the vac filler, you have to slowly depress the plastic rod, letting the ink come out of the nib end slowly, drop by drop by drop. Once you finally think you have all of the ink out of the pen this way, take the nib end of the pen, wrap it in a ziplock sandwich bag, and shake it like a thermoter, to get the rest of the ink out. You will then need to fill the pen with water to clean it out, emptying it the same way (i.e., drop by drop, then the thermometer shake).

So, enjoy that vac filler, which I'm sure will be a beautiful pen and a great writer. But still look for an aerometric filler 51, which will be much easier to fill and empty.

Cheers.

[brianw]

I have many 51's both vac and aero. DGS is correct about cleaning a vac... a bit of a pain but a great filling system. Holds a ton of ink... I just don't change the ink color that often

[DGS]

BTW, for everything you could possibly want to know about the Parker 51, see my friend Ernesto Soler's fabulous site, www.parker51.com. Ernesto is THE expert on 51s, and he has the best collection of them I have ever seen, including the rarest of the rare. He also sells them from his web site, fully restored, at good prices.

[DGS]

These photos will show the difference between the vacumatic filler and the aerometric. First up is a rare Parker 51 vacumatic demonstrator pen. These were not sold to the public, but were used by Parker salesmen to show to pen dealers as a way of demonstrating how the filling system worked. You can see the small rubber sac in the barrel toward the bottom. Below that, you can see the plastic rod inside the blind cap. When you press the plastic rod, it extends the rubber sac into the barrel, and when you release the rod, it creates a vacuum which sucks ink into the barrel from the bottle. The brownish colored tube extending into the barrel from the top is a breather tube, which displaces air so that the ink can reach the filling unit and the nib. There are numerous horizontal "fins" in the filling unit surrounding the gold tubular nib. These fins also are part of a hard rubber "feed" which draws ink from the barrel and onto the gold nib, allowing you to write. The fins hold ink.

http://d2123501.u38.hosting-advantage.com/images/061210-29.JPG

The next picture is an aerometric demonstrator. Here you see the filling unit, which is a metal housing with a "window". In the window you see the soft, clear plastic ink sac with the metal spring bar over it. You dip the nib end in the ink bottle, then press on the metal spring bar 5 or 6 times, waiting about one second between each press. Then you count about ten seconds after the last press to let more ink draw into the sac.

http://d2123501.u38.hosting-advantage.com/images/New51Demo.jpg

[invizable]

DGS you saved me from having to post another question on the forum!
The pen came with a bit of blue ink left and I never use blue.
Thanks for the cleaning instructions.

My Noodlers arrives with my Safari tomorrow, so I'll be busy the rest of the week testing pens, inks, and papers.

[DGS]

DGS you saved me from having to post another question on the forum!
The pen came with a bit of blue ink left and I never use blue.
Thanks for the cleaning instructions.

My Noodlers arrives with my Safari tomorrow, so I'll be busy the rest of the week testing pens, inks, and papers.

Noodlers is my favorite ink; Nathan is always cojming out with great new colors. The Noodlers Black is the best black ink I've used; it's dark, rich, and permanent. It will NOT wash off (so don't get it on your clothes!). Plus, Noodlers is priced great compared to other inks (especially Aurora, which I also like but which is too expensive).

[coyotewhisper]

As both a user and collecter, you could not go wrong on a Parker 51. I personally prefer vintage of modern. Try other inks too J Herbin and Private Reserve are great inks that are not overly expensive.

[invizable]

Here's the Lamy Safari Extra Fine in Charcoal and the Parker 51 vac with fine nib.

[DGS]

Here's the Lamy Safari Extra Fine in Charcoal and the Parker 51 vac with fine nib.

Nice :thumbup1:

Enjoy!

Show us a writing sample.

[fatpanda]

I had a Lamy Safari fine and found it works very well with Pelikan Brilliant Black. I gave the Lamy Safari fine to SWMBO. Now my daily pen is a Lamy Safari 1.5 mm Calligraphy! IMHO Lamy rocks!!!

[brianw]

Nice "51".... watch the slippery slope of FPAD's

[DGS]

Nice "51".... watch the slippery slope of FPAD's

Yes, first the Lamy Safari, then the best Lamy ever made, the 2000:

http://www.melpens.com/ebay/items/Lamy_2000_fountain.gif

Classic Bauhaus-inspired modern design. Lightweight, nearly indestructible Makrolon body, solid white gold nib, smooth piston filler, beautiful writer. And best of all, you can find it brand new for around $100.

[bigstick]

You have made two fine choices that you should enjoy for years....but not likely to be your last fp purchases. ;)
I strongly urge to join our merry band of ink addicts at fountainpennetwork.com. We are mostly harmless and friendly and knowledgeable to boot.
See you there!

[brianw]

the best Lamy ever made, the 2000:


I beg to differ with you... I have owned all the different Lamy's. The key word is have. They are all gone except for 1

The classic Lamy 27...IMHO the only Lamy,, and can be had for 40 to 60.... just a little hard to find

[brianw]

You have made two fine choices that you should enjoy for years....but not likely to be your last fp purchases. ;)
I strongly urge to join our merry band of ink addicts at fountainpennetwork.com. We are mostly harmless and friendly and knowledgeable to boot.
See you there!

Definitely one of the best places to research pens.... just watch out for the flame wars and personal attacks

[DGS]

I beg to differ with you... I have owned all the different Lamy's. The key word is have. They are all gone except for 1

The classic Lamy 27...IMHO the only Lamy,, and can be had for 40 to 60.... just a little hard to find

Another Parker 51 clone... It's nice, but not nearly as nice as the vintage Aurora 88. Now there was a 51 clone done with some extra nice things the 51 itself did not have, like flex nibs. I've got a couple 88s around here somewhere, including one in the original anodized aluminum triangular case, with the original instructions (in Italian) and original wiping cloth. It's a beautiful pen.

But since the fountain pen AD is sure to kick in sooner rather than later, our OP will surely want to acquire both the Lamy 27 and eht Aurora 88 (first year with Nickargenta cap, of course). :thumbup:

[brianw]

You are spot on with the 88, I have a couple of those as well...the flexy is a great feature... but for great flex a vintage conklin crescent... in hard rubber Great filling system...warm in the hand

[mattjs]

First, congrats on joining the fountain pen world! It's big and fun and super friendly.

For your choice of journal, I would recommend against the Leuchtturm 1917s. The paper inside, while good, is not the best for fountain pen inks. Many reviews I've read state that inks feather, which isn't fun at all.

My journal of choice is the Rhodia Webnotebook. It doesn't have the nifty features that the Leuchtturm does (table of contents, blocks for page numbers, stickers) but it wins on quality.

My current "knock-around" pen is a Lamy Studio, fine tip.

[invizable]

Mattjs,
Its odd you advise against the Leuchtturm 1917, I've read nothing but great reviews from FP users. I did pick up a Leuchtturm pocket squared for testing, as well as a Rhodia quadrille pocket pad, and several Staples Bagasse notebooks which were on sale.
I'll do some paper/pen tests and post the results for review.

I filled both pens with Noodlers black yesterday and so far I've noticed the Lamy flows very smoothly. Its really comfortable to hold and looks great.
But the 51...wow. I remember an advertisement for the 51 which read, "writes dry with wet ink." Now I get it, the 51's lines are more focused and clean.

[DGS]

Mattjs,
Its odd you advise against the Leuchtturm 1917, I've read nothing but great reviews from FP users. I did pick up a Leuchtturm pocket squared for testing, as well as a Rhodia quadrille pocket pad, and several Staples Bagasse notebooks which were on sale.
I'll do some paper/pen tests and post the results for review.

I filled both pens with Noodlers black yesterday and so far I've noticed the Lamy flows very smoothly. Its really comfortable to hold and looks great.
But the 51...wow. I remember an advertisement for the 51 which read, "writes dry with wet ink." Now I get it, the 51's lines are more focused and clean.

The "writes dry with wet ink" referred to Parker Superchrome ink, which was a special ink Parker sold specially for the 51. It was a horrible ink that had some metal compund in it that actually permanently clogs and ruins pens. It was quickly taken off the market in the 1950s. If you see some at an antique market, avoid it like the plague!!

If your 51 is writing too dry for your taste, it may be that it simply needs some adjustment. I would try writing with it quite a bit, making sure you are holding the pen in your preferred position. This should help "brek in" the nib to your angle, which may help some. Depending on where you live, there may be a pen show in your area. If so, there are usually pen repairers on site who can easily adjust your pen for you and get the ink flow the way you'd like.

[pauls51]

Sorry to Hijack the thread....

But when I am looking a 51 Parker what should I be looking at, in terms of defects???
Last thing I want to do is, buy a dud!

As mentioned Im currently using a Lamy Graphite so am hoping for similar performance from the 51..

Thanks and again apologies for hijacking the thread

[DGS]

Sorry to Hijack the thread....

But when I am looking a 51 Parker what should I be looking at, in terms of defects???
Last thing I want to do is, buy a dud!

As mentioned Im currently using a Lamy Graphite so am hoping for similar performance from the 51..

Thanks and again apologies for hijacking the thread

I'd recommend reading up on the 51 on a couple of sites, starting with Ernesto Soler's site: www.parker51.com. Ernesto also sells restored 51s there. You can also David Nishimura's site, www.vintagepens.com, which will have a wealth of info (but high prices, so just go there for the info, in my opinion). Also, check this thread: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=116098

[mattjs]

Mattjs,
Its odd you advise against the Leuchtturm 1917, I've read nothing but great reviews from FP users. I did pick up a Leuchtturm pocket squared for testing, as well as a Rhodia quadrille pocket pad, and several Staples Bagasse notebooks which were on sale.
I'll do some paper/pen tests and post the results for review.

I filled both pens with Noodlers black yesterday and so far I've noticed the Lamy flows very smoothly. Its really comfortable to hold and looks great.
But the 51...wow. I remember an advertisement for the 51 which read, "writes dry with wet ink." Now I get it, the 51's lines are more focused and clean.

Again, just recommendation. If one does purchase the Leuchtturm, he or she must be sure to ask for the ones that are now labeled as "ink proof". The Leuchtturm paper is, I think, 72gsm weight.

By comparison, Rhodia pads are 80gsm (approximately 20lb), while the Rhodia Webnotebook is 90gsm (approximately 24lb). Most Clairefontaine branded products are 90gsm.

At the end of the day, if you're happy with the paper you have, then keep using it!

As for the "writes dry with wet ink" thing that DGS addressed, could that be an iron gall ink? If so, then it would require higher maintenance than other water-based inks. I don't know much about inks though. I prefer paper :biggrin1:

[brianw]

DO NOT.... I REPEAT....AND I REPEAT AGAIN. Put iron gall ink in a fountain pen..unless of course you want to throw the pen away

[invizable]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was actually complimenting the pen when I quoted the "writes dry" slogan. The ink goes on in a very clear distinct line as if its already dry. The Lamy is extra fine, but still produces a broader line which you can see spreading out a bit with the exact same ink.

[invizable]

Ok, I finally sat down to do some heads-up tests on the paper.
I have a Staples Bagasse Eco-Friendly Notebook, a Rhodia Pocket Notebook, and the Leuchtturm 1917 Large Notebook.
I was mostly testing for feathering, texture, and the 'smudge' factor. The Bagasse dried most quickly but had the roughest texture. The Rhodia was by far the smoothest to write on, but tended to smudge for more than 10 seconds. Leuchtturm 1917 was right in the middle for texture and smudge. Pics are below for feathering tests. Sorry for my terrible penmanship, my next purchase will be the book 'Write Now' so I can write legibly.

[brianw]

you have got to love the "51"....finest pen made IMHO

[Gymea]

Just got a Noodler's Ink Fountain Pen in the mail. It is a "medium-fine" nib, and lays down about someplace between a fine and medium line. swisherpens.com had them about a week ago, and mine was something like 19 bucks after shipping. I've got a Lamy I hardly ever use now, a couple vintage Parkers that I love, and a Pilot Knight.

For a pen in your price range, I would honestly go with the Knight (looks more classic, writes well for me) or another less expensive Pilot/Namiki. jetpens.com has a good selection.

To be totally honest though, I do love my new Noodler's pen. Writes really well, and it was pretty inexpensive. Good bargain, though it does sound like you may want a finer line than this lays down.

I've been eyeing the Noodler's Ink Fountain Pen, but haven't taken the plunge yet (hee hee...get it? :lol: I mean, aren't some of them plunger/piston fillers?). Good to hear that it's a good buy, both $-wise and in terms of performance.

It's good to see Nathan getting back into pens -- for a while, I was worried that the Noodler's side of the business was going to consume all his time and resources. Eternally. (heh...get it?? Noodler's Eternal ink? :laugh: Hee hee... never mind. )

:glare:

Jimmy.

[brianw]

Oh those are bad

[Gymea]

DGS you saved me from having to post another question on the forum!
The pen came with a bit of blue ink left and I never use blue.
Thanks for the cleaning instructions.

My Noodlers arrives with my Safari tomorrow, so I'll be busy the rest of the week testing pens, inks, and papers.

What colour Noodler's ink did you get, invizable? If it's any of the Baystate colours, particularly Baystate Blue, be advised of the reports of incompatibility of that ink with Lamy pens.

The Lamy Safari pens (and possibly others in the Lamy range) have ebonite feeds (black hard rubber), and Baystate Blue apparently has a corrosive effect on the feeds -- essentially disintegrating them over a period of time.

I'm not sure if Baystate Blue has that effect on all blackened hard rubber though -- I'm not gutsy enough to try with any of my vintage Waterman BHR pens... :bored:

Cheers,
Jimmy.

[brianw]

What colour Noodler's ink did you get, invizable? If it's any of the Baystate colours, particularly Baystate Blue, be advised of the reports of incompatibility of that ink with Lamy pens.

The Lamy Safari pens (and possibly others in the Lamy range) have ebonite feeds (black hard rubber), and Baystate Blue apparently has a corrosive effect on the feeds -- essentially disintegrating them over a period of time.

I'm not sure if Baystate Blue has that effect on all blackened hard rubber though -- I'm not gutsy enough to try with any of my vintage Waterman BHR pens... :bored:

Cheers,
Jimmy.


You got that right Jimmy..... there have been numerous reports of that

[Gymea]

Oh those are bad

Yeah, kinda makes one appreciate wet shaving more, huh? :lol:

Jimmy.

[invizable]

What colour Noodler's ink did you get, invizable? If it's any of the Baystate colours, particularly Baystate Blue, be advised of the reports of incompatibility of that ink with Lamy pens.

I love plain black ink. I'll make sure to avoid the Baystate Blue if I do venture outside my beloved black.

[Gymea]

I love plain black ink. I'll make sure to avoid the Baystate Blue if I do venture outside my beloved black.

Ah -- Noodler's Black rocks. Nathan's very first "bulletproof" ink. One of the few blacks I actually like.

One word of advice -- if the ink happens to be sitting for long periods of time (ie, on your shelf), I recommend giving the bottle a swirl. Noodler's will tend to settle. I still love it though. Noodler's, and Private Reserve, for that matter. :thumbup:

Jimmy.

[brianw]

by the way any of the baystates, blue, cranberry and grape, have been reported to have the same effect. I love the colors but only use them as a dip ink or in a Hero

[DGS]

Ok, I finally sat down to do some heads-up tests on the paper.
I have a Staples Bagasse Eco-Friendly Notebook, a Rhodia Pocket Notebook, and the Leuchtturm 1917 Large Notebook.
I was mostly testing for feathering, texture, and the 'smudge' factor. The Bagasse dried most quickly but had the roughest texture. The Rhodia was by far the smoothest to write on, but tended to smudge for more than 10 seconds. Leuchtturm 1917 was right in the middle for texture and smudge. Pics are below for feathering tests. Sorry for my terrible penmanship, my next purchase will be the book 'Write Now' so I can write legibly.

You should also try the Ampad Gold Fibre pads, which you can find at Staples or OfficeMax. I use them all the time at the office. Very smooth, no feathering, and they work great with Noodlers black. You can get them in yellow, white, or off-white. I also love the Clairefontaine pads, but find them too expensive for everyday use.

[mattjs]

One thing to keep in mind: Ink on Rhodia paper (and Clairfontaine as well) will take longer to dry than other papers. This is because these papers are actually somewhat resistant to ink. This is what helps defend against the inks feathering. Working with more saturated inks or wet writing pens will lengthen drying times as well.

It's a great adventure for left-handed folks like me :D

[Bill Smith]

I would skip the LAMY and get a vintage Parker "51", you would never regret it

Agreed 1000% I own three Lamy Safaris and 16 Parker 51s.

[Improbable]

The first fountain pen I owned, and which I still use very frequently, was a Waterman Phileas. They're priced about on par with the Safaris (or Al-Stars, one of which I use), write just as well if not better, and have a slightly more classic look.

As for ink, I've never had any trouble with any of Waterman's inks. They may not be quite as quick-drying as some and they're certainly not bulletproof, but they flow beautifully and I've never heard of them clogging a pen. Not to mention they've got some great colors (I like the Havana Brown and South Seas Blue when I don't need basic blue/black).

[Silvermine14]

As a writer, I've used just about every kind of writing instrument. Oddly enough I've returned to two at different ends of the spectrum. On the fountain pen side, I've cleaned up an old Parker 75, whose nib needed replacing. On the more humble end of things, I like to use a number two pencil. Not just any #2--but a Mirado Black Warrior. There's something pleasantly nostalgic and elemental about using a fountain pen or pencil that just can't be replicated with the likes of a keyboard (like the one I'm now typing on).