PDA

View Full Version : Do I need to buy a lower grit to get sharper?



Obiwan
06-08-2010, 12:05 PM
So I am new to honing and wanted to seek some advice. The lowest grit I've purchased so far is a 3k naniwa. My thought process in using that as a starting point was that I'd only be honing razor in relatively good shape without chips or major damage. I'm a few razors into learning to hone and have been relatively pleased with the comfort of results, but there's definitely room to improve the sharpness.

My question is whether or not my baseline start in the progression should be a 1k or is this more likely a byproduct of my inexperience?

Thanks,
David

professorchaos
06-08-2010, 12:13 PM
Bevels are key. If you don't have a good bevel, the razor will never shave well. You can set a good bevel with a 3K hone but (there's always a but) if it requires removing a lot of metal, you'll be there a while. My favorite is a 12" DMT EF (1.2K)

Whether or not you choose to go to a lower grit hone, stay on it until the razor passes the TNT.

azmark
06-08-2010, 12:19 PM
my favorite is a 12" dmt ef (1.2k)



+1

Obiwan
06-08-2010, 02:30 PM
Bevels are key. If you don't have a good bevel, the razor will never shave well. You can set a good bevel with a 3K hone but (there's always a but) if it requires removing a lot of metal, you'll be there a while. My favorite is a 12" DMT EF (1.2K)

Whether or not you choose to go to a lower grit hone, stay on it until the razor passes the TNT.


Thanks! To follow up on that, are there different product lines within the DMT series? I'm trying to find/buy the one you recommend but might not be looking in the right area. I saw a 1200 Dia-Sharp @ SRD, but it was only 8" so I wasn't sure if that's the one.

ambrose
06-08-2010, 02:32 PM
if you in a pinch 600 grit wet dry paper is divine at setting bevels :thumbup1:

azmark
06-08-2010, 06:15 PM
Thanks! To follow up on that, are there different product lines within the DMT series? I'm trying to find/buy the one you recommend but might not be looking in the right area. I saw a 1200 Dia-Sharp @ SRD, but it was only 8" so I wasn't sure if that's the one.

The Perfect Shave (http://www.thesuperiorshave.com/Hones.html) is where I've purchased a few coticules and other product in the past and they have been a pleasure to deal with.

Obiwan
06-09-2010, 07:03 AM
if you in a pinch 600 grit wet dry paper is divine at setting bevels :thumbup1:

I have plenty of 600 grit wet/dry paper hanging around the house, but to be honest, I've always been a bit hesitant to try it.

honed
06-09-2010, 07:08 AM
I have plenty of 600 grit wet/dry paper hanging around the house, but to be honest, I've always been a bit hesitant to try it.

No worries, I use it all the time on eBay specials.
Wet it down properly, wrap it around another hone & hone away.
Just treat it like a low grit hone, i.e it removes a lot of metal fast.
I honed several chipped razors just using 600k sandpaper & a coticule.
And the edge is just as good as any.

Seraphim
06-09-2010, 07:46 AM
The key when using sandpaper is to ensure that it remains FLAT while honing on it.

Wet it out ona piece of glass, tape it down, whatever.




Other than that, 3k should be fine for setting bevels, but may take a while.

Slartibartfast
06-09-2010, 08:09 AM
You can build a slurry on the 3k to speed it up a bit, but having a good bevel setter is really important.

Setting the bevel is the most important part of the honing progression.

professorchaos
06-09-2010, 08:31 AM
Thanks! To follow up on that, are there different product lines within the DMT series? I'm trying to find/buy the one you recommend but might not be looking in the right area. I saw a 1200 Dia-Sharp @ SRD, but it was only 8" so I wasn't sure if that's the one.

That looks like the same hone, only shorter. I went with the 12" because the extra 4" means fewer laps. When you are honing out chips or working on an Ebay special, it adds up pretty quickly.

Obiwan
06-23-2010, 08:36 AM
Bevels are key. If you don't have a good bevel, the razor will never shave well. You can set a good bevel with a 3K hone but (there's always a but) if it requires removing a lot of metal, you'll be there a while. My favorite is a 12" DMT EF (1.2K)

Whether or not you choose to go to a lower grit hone, stay on it until the razor passes the TNT.

I picked up a DMT 1200 and used it as my starting grit last night. What a difference with a good bevel! I shaved with it this morning and it made all the difference. This was very encouranging.

Thanks again!!

Seraphim
06-23-2010, 08:39 AM
DMT 1200 is the King of bevel setters!:thumbup:

Chimensch
06-23-2010, 10:08 AM
My lowest grit stone is the 4K side of the 4K/8K combo. I took a chip out on the 4K. I made a slurry to make it cut faster and worked for about an hour. My point is that the main difference between that and a lower grit stone or abrasive paper is speed. If you're not doing a lot of honing, you may not need the speed.

One word of caution about the TNT (Thumb Nail Test): it's indicator that the bevel is set but also messes up the edge, so after the razor passes the TNT you have to go back and hone some more to undo the damage. Shaving arm hair will also give you an indication that the bevel is set (test point, center and heel). Some newbies have done the TNT at the end of finishing and that's not a good idea.

SliceOfLife
06-23-2010, 08:50 PM
My lowest grit stone is an 80 grit Norton Sanding belt. ;)

But 99% of the time I stick with my 220grit DMT.

I never use the TNT, but I've seen some very experienced barbers do it on a finished razor, so I'd venture a guess that it damages an edge because we don't know how to do it properly. I've also heard barbers suggest using something very similar to a TNT after beveling to remove any wire edge or burrs before polishing.

Razor honing is at best an inexact science, so what damages an edge for one man may be a standard step in honing for another, there are a lot of variables in play.

To be honest I've used straight razors to trim my nails at 8k honing (I keep a box of razors @ 8k to use as a quick source of razors to experiment with finishing hones) and not done any damage to the edge either in performance or under 400x scope. I'm sure it depends on the particular razor though.

My favorite way to check a bevel is TPT (only time I use it really) or arm/leg hair shave test (though it takes a bit of pressure to shave armhair at 1200 for me, and you run out of it quickly, it's nice because if you do a broad swipe it VERY clearly demonstrates which part of the edge isn't ready yet).

Pumpkin
06-29-2010, 05:57 PM
if you in a pinch 600 grit wet dry paper is divine at setting bevels :thumbup1:


No worries, I use it all the time on eBay specials.
Wet it down properly, wrap it around another hone & hone away.
Just treat it like a low grit hone, i.e it removes a lot of metal fast.
I honed several chipped razors just using 600k sandpaper & a coticule.
And the edge is just as good as any.


The key when using sandpaper is to ensure that it remains FLAT while honing on it.

Wet it out ona piece of glass, tape it down, whatever.




Other than that, 3k should be fine for setting bevels, but may take a while.

If using Wet and Dry Sandpaper to set a bevel, do you work spine first or edge first?

Chimensch
06-30-2010, 03:14 AM
If using Wet and Dry Sandpaper to set a bevel, do you work spine first or edge first?
Edge first, like honing.

honed
06-30-2010, 07:50 AM
Edge first, like honing.
Yes, that is why it is so important that it remains flat thru out the process