Can't go ATG :(

[vmank1q]

First off, I've been using a DE for about six months now and I'm enjoying it very much and they are the best shaves I've ever had.

But I can't go ATG on my neck at all. Whenever I do I get bad irritation and nicks. It's only the neck area, everywhere else is fine.

The shaves are perfectly acceptable WTG. But they ain't BBS.

Is there anything I can do to help me shave ATG?

I'm waiting on a straight razor to come back. So I'm going to try that soon, maybe that will help?

Thanks.

[Seldon]

Hello. Welcome to the forums! I'm a newer DE shaver myself, and I've had similar issues with my neck. You didn't give specifics, but for me, the issue is with my lower neck around the collar line. What I have found works best for me is a combination of angles to get a smoother shave there without irritation. If you haven't yet, mapping out your beards growth patterns is really helpful at showing you if this would help you out or not. For my neck, I typically do a WTG pass N-S, then I do 2 XTG passes. The first is according to the growth of my hair which is oddly angled from my chin to my ear, the second I take from the ear to the chin and adam's apple (obviously). This is only on the upper portion of my neck. I have found with proper angle, from my adam's apple down, I can simply complete a third WTG pass N-S and achieve a super close shave in that area. I now rarely have to deal with irritation on my neck if I stick to this routine. Another major factor in the whole scheme of shaving my neck, was proper Pre and Post Shave care to my neck. It is just as important, if not more so, than your face. We tend to neglect the pampering of our necks, but for us folks with sensitive ones, it is well worth the extra effort. Hope that is helpful. Cheers!

[Zatx Woopyoax]

I'm a newb as well. I can get BBS on my neck but it is painful and not irritation free. I tried mapping out my growth pattern but it just swirls around in circles. Looks like the satellite map of the Atlantic during hurricane season.

Once in awhile I'll get lucky and it will be relatively blood free, but it's generally just on my first shave with a fresh Feather. Switching to Gillette Yellow packs this week and hope it takes care of these issues.

[mbrossar]

First of all, as has been said many times, BBS is overrated. It’s a nice goal, but try not to get strung out trying to achieve it. That said, I can provide a couple of suggestions and some of my own experiences.

In my experience, ATG requires a very light touch and low blade angle. This pictorial is specific to straights, but the concept applies to DEs as well. (http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/File:Cutting_angles.jpg) As you go ATG, your blade angle needs to be flatter against the skin. To achieve both of these things, you need to develop a feel for it, and it is unlikely you will develop a feel right off the bat. My suggestion is to go 50% ATG and 50% XTG. Sort of 45 degrees of ATG if you will. This of course presumes you have accurately mapped out your beard growth as the previous poster recommends. When you’ve developed a touch for this 45 degree of ATG that you have no knick or irritation problem, go a little more ATG. Once you’ve mastered that, go a little more, and so on until you’re going fully ATG. You’ll probably reach spots where you get irritation going again. If that happens, just back off and keep at it. It takes time. I am confident you’ll get there.

With respect to a straight, if you have the same challenges as I do (i.e. the beard on my neck grows horizontally from my throat outward). In addition, I have fairly pronounced muscles on my neck and a fairly pronounced trachea. This also gives me a fairly pronounced valley between the two. Trying to get a 3” straight horizontally across my neck to get a fully ATG pass has proven next to impossible, so I’ve been pursuing various angled passes with slicing and scything motions to make up for it. This particular issue, I find, is easier addressed with a DE simply because the blade is shorter and the handle provides for a better angle. Unfortunately for me, I prefer a straight on every part of my face except this small patch on my neck. :glare:

Hope this helps.

[icedoverfire]

Hello and welcome to the forums!

I, like you, cannot do ATG passes as it leaves me with horrible irritation. So I've given up on BBS.

Personally, 2 passes (1 WTG and 1 XTG) leaves me with a very DFS shave. And really, the only one who ever notices is the SO, and even then hardly.

best,

-ice

[BurkDarkpatches]

I've been DE shaving for 3 yrs now. When I started, ATG resulted in unacceptable razor burn. Also, cycling through my many different razors resulted in variable shave quality until I got the hang of using each one again.

Lately, I've noticed that I can get a great shave from any of my razors. My usual pattern is WTG, then XTG. I've also noticed that ATG isn't the show-stopper it used to be.

My conclusion is that that improved technique and/or acclimation to DE shaving is probably responsible for this.

Keep at it kiddo!

Steve

[Mr. Styptic]

I recently asked this forum about the same problem with my upper lip. Minding the advice I received here, I experimented with multiple XTG passes and with a final pass that is angled somewhat less than ATG. And it worked! In about a week, I've reduced the damage to my upper lip while also greatly improving the closeness of my shave. And because I haven't been irritating my upper lip every day, it seems to be gradually becoming less sensitive. My thanks to the guys who steered my in the right direction.

[sproosemoose]

ATG on the neck is not very difficult and you sould be able to achieve it if you keep practising.

Make sure you are using a comfortable angle, and apply only minimal pressure. Start with the lower parts of your neck as they will have less hair (thus be easer) and work towards the chin.

Note that going ATG requires a shallower angle than with the grain.

Hope that helps!

[dog]

I can't go ATG on my neck no matter what type of razor. I've gotten used to getting acceptable results and not sweating whether I'm BBS or not. I can get BBS everywhere else except the neck, so I'm pretty happy.

[Dennard]

I agree with mbrossar. BBS is overrated. DFS looks just as good and is more comfortable, so my advice is not to worry about going for BBS.

[Go West Young Man]

2 XTG's done right get me 95% of the way to BBS without the irritation, I can live with that.

[Pumpkin]

I've been DE shaving for 3 yrs now. When I started, ATG resulted in unacceptable razor burn. Also, cycling through my many different razors resulted in variable shave quality until I got the hang of using each one again.

Lately, I've noticed that I can get a great shave from any of my razors. My usual pattern is WTG, then XTG. I've also noticed that ATG isn't the show-stopper it used to be.

My conclusion is that that improved technique and/or acclimation to DE shaving is probably responsible for this.

Keep at it kiddo!

Steve

I've had a similar experience to Steve, regarding ATG and DE's. The closer shave going ATG didn't compensate for the increased irritation of an extra pass, so I just left it out and do 1 x WTG and 2 x XTG (in opposite directions) for a shave that Mrs. Pumpkin is very happy with :w00t:

Conversely, when I'm using a straight razor, I do find that I do 1 x WTG and 1 x ATG on my neck...this has come about due to the complications added by a longer, less forgiving blade.

[Walter Sobchak]

I've been DE shaving for 3 yrs now. When I started, ATG resulted in unacceptable razor burn. Also, cycling through my many different razors resulted in variable shave quality until I got the hang of using each one again.

Lately, I've noticed that I can get a great shave from any of my razors. My usual pattern is WTG, then XTG. I've also noticed that ATG isn't the show-stopper it used to be.

My conclusion is that that improved technique and/or acclimation to DE shaving is probably responsible for this.

Keep at it kiddo!

Steve

+1 there.
I can get great results on my neck with something very aggressive and very sharp. A RedTip or Slim opened up to 9 with a Feather/Astra/Iridium or a Slant with either of the 'sharper' blades will treat my neck very well.

When I go back to using a Tech or a Superspeed, even with a Feather, I get some irritation issues. I'm going to keep adjusting angles with them to see if I can pull off the irritation free neck job.

[alexo]

My neck only gets one pass - ATG, every day I shave (generally 6 out of 7 days). However, I delay the actual shave until I finish above the jaw bone.

The other tip is to hold the razor as loose as possible and caress the face with it, don't press. The only skin stretching I do is by turning my head up and press a finger to the chest down.

The skin over the neck is very thin so it would be good to add some oil or rich cream if the lather you get isn't protecting enough. Since I started lathering with Col. Conk, I always add some Nivea cream and it makes the lather much better.

[Walter Sobchak]

My neck only gets one pass - ATG, every day I shave (generally 6 out of 7 days). However, I delay the actual shave until I finish above the jaw bone.

The other tip is to hold the razor as loose as possible and caress the face with it, don't press. The only skin stretching I do is by turning my head up and press a finger to the chest down.

[B]The skin over the neck is very thin so it would be good to add some oil or rich cream if the lather you get isn't protecting enough. Since I started lathering with Col. Conk, I always add some Nivea cream and it makes the lather much better.

Excellent point. You guys might try using some of that Kinexium Shave Oil stuff. I like and prefer soaps/creams because of the whole ritual thing and their nice scents, but that Kinexium Oil is incredibly slick. I get very, very good results on the rare occasions that I use it. Maybe I'll try it with a Superseed and see what happens.

[vmank1q]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I didn't know about the different blade angle to go ATG :001_huh: So I will try that next time.

But like I said, when I shave WTG it's perfectly acceptable. It's just not really smooth. I will try it again but not for awhile. Give it a few days :001_smile

And I'm still waiting for my straight to come back so that might change a few things too :thumbup:

Thanks.

[Zatx Woopyoax]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I didn't know about the different blade angle to go ATG :001_huh: So I will try that next time.

But like I said, when I shave WTG it's perfectly acceptable. It's just not really smooth. I will try it again but not for awhile. Give it a few days :001_smile

And I'm still waiting for my straight to come back so that might change a few things too :thumbup:

Thanks.


I read this post yesterday and followed the advice of adjusting my blade angle this morning with my shave. I did everything else as normal, but on my ATG pass on my neck I adjust the razor angle to a much less aggressive angle.

Viola! The shave was comfortable, bbs, and irritation free. I didn't get a single bump, nick, or weeper anywhere on my face this morning.

Thanks for the great advice you guys provide here!

[over5feet]

What the **** is BBS, WTG, ATG,XTG (have you all turned into train spotters)??? (smile) I thought the man just wants to how to shave his neck without the redness or have I read this wrong? I am also new to art of DE shaving but what I have found is I lather my neck first & shave that part, then move on to the face,
This may seem like a weird way of doing it but
due irritations on my neck for many years this was the way my barber said to try and it works for me so I'm sticking to it.
Something to do with the lather sitting on your neck while you shave you face (not sure if thats fact but like I said it works for me)
Michael

[Dennard]

What the **** is BBS, WTG, ATG,XTG

BBS- Baby's Bottom Smooth
WTG- With The Grain of hair growth
XTG- Across The Grain
ATG- Against The Grain

[over5feet]

BBS- Baby's Bottom Smooth
WTG- With The Grain of hair growth
XTG- Across The Grain
ATG- Against The Grain

Thanks jim its like a membership into the inner circle :thumbup:

[vmank1q]

Thanks jim its like a membership into the inner circle :thumbup:

The whole shaving nonsense is a front. We're actually Devil worshipers, and now that you know the acronyms we own your soul :angry:

Seriously, I'm going to try the different blade angle tomorrow. See how it goes. Thanks. :thumbup1:

[Rocketeer]

What the **** is BBS, WTG, ATG,XTG ...

For a (almost) complete list of abbreviations and their meanings, see the wiki page at:

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Abbreviations

This should suffice until you get your BAB decoder ring.

[Go West Young Man]

What the **** is BBS, WTG, ATG,XTG (have you all turned into train spotters)??? (smile) I thought the man just wants to how to shave his neck without the redness or have I read this wrong? I am also new to art of DE shaving but what I have found is I lather my neck first & shave that part, then move on to the face,
This may seem like a weird way of doing it but
due irritations on my neck for many years this was the way my barber said to try and it works for me so I'm sticking to it.
Something to do with the lather sitting on your neck while you shave you face (not sure if thats fact but like I said it works for me)
Michael

You should read the beginners' tutorials here and watch Mantic59's videos on youtube. You would be amazed at how much better your face will feel if you make a few small modifications to your routine.

[over5feet]

ahhh you guys a full of shit but hey I love all of ya

[blood_type_O]

Going ATG is really difficult if you have an extremely tough beard and sensitive skin. My suggestion is keep practicing and go very slow.

[filedog]

+1 there.
I can get great results on my neck with something very aggressive and very sharp. A RedTip or Slim opened up to 9 with a Feather/Astra/Iridium or a Slant with either of the 'sharper' blades will treat my neck very well.

When I go back to using a Tech or a Superspeed, even with a Feather, I get some irritation issues. I'm going to keep adjusting angles with them to see if I can pull off the irritation free neck job.

I was getting an ok shave on my neck (tough are for me) using Derbys and a Superspeed. Tried a slim on 5 with a new blade (bit more aggressive), and got a better shave with less irritation! I was surpised, have somewhat sensitive skin, beard is not heavy, so I thought a sharper/more aggressive combo would irritate more, not so! Used my new DE87 with an Israeli Red, great shave! I do one pass WTG, one ATG and some touchup.

[Dennard]

Thanks jim its like a membership into the inner circle :thumbup:

You're welcome :001_cool:

[huntmol]

Yeah, I don't go for BBS, just X-BBS (smooth in 3 out of 4 directions)

I usually do WTG/WTG/XTG and that gets me a damn fine shave every day.

Going ATG for full BBS is just incredibly uncomfortable and will always lead to irritation for me.

[luvmysuper]

First of all, as has been said many times, BBS is overrated. It’s a nice goal, but try not to get strung out trying to achieve it. That said, I can provide a couple of suggestions and some of my own experiences.

In my experience, ATG requires a very light touch and low blade angle. This pictorial is specific to straights, but the concept applies to DEs as well. (http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/File:Cutting_angles.jpg) As you go ATG, your blade angle needs to be flatter against the skin. To achieve both of these things, you need to develop a feel for it, and it is unlikely you will develop a feel right off the bat. My suggestion is to go 50% ATG and 50% XTG. Sort of 45 degrees of ATG if you will. This of course presumes you have accurately mapped out your beard growth as the previous poster recommends. When you’ve developed a touch for this 45 degree of ATG that you have no knick or irritation problem, go a little more ATG. Once you’ve mastered that, go a little more, and so on until you’re going fully ATG. You’ll probably reach spots where you get irritation going again. If that happens, just back off and keep at it. It takes time. I am confident you’ll get there.

With respect to a straight, if you have the same challenges as I do (i.e. the beard on my neck grows horizontally from my throat outward). In addition, I have fairly pronounced muscles on my neck and a fairly pronounced trachea. This also gives me a fairly pronounced valley between the two. Trying to get a 3” straight horizontally across my neck to get a fully ATG pass has proven next to impossible, so I’ve been pursuing various angled passes with slicing and scything motions to make up for it. This particular issue, I find, is easier addressed with a DE simply because the blade is shorter and the handle provides for a better angle. Unfortunately for me, I prefer a straight on every part of my face except this small patch on my neck. :glare:

Hope this helps.


2 XTG's done right get me 95% of the way to BBS without the irritation, I can live with that.

Great stuff right there.

Like I said somewhere else, concentrate on proper prep, and proper execution of the shave, and what you get is what you get.
Pursuit of BBS for BBS sake gets you nothing but heartache and razor burn.
Focus your efforts on proper blade angle, zip point zip pressure and really really slow down your stroke.
Good prep, good equipment, good product and good technique will translate into excellent shaves.