Newbie Question Canned Gel VS Shave Soap

[RockyNomad]

Ok, this is my first post on this forum. I have been doing a lot of reading here learning about DE shaving. I currently use either a Mach 3 Turbo or a Braun foil shaver. When considering the type of lather what is the difference between canned gel/foam and using a brush with soap?

[Masterblaster]

The stuff in the can has lots of air dissolved in in because of the propellant. It just doesn't work as well as the good lathering soaps. Oh sure the stuff in the can will do the job, but just not as good as a good lathering shaving soap.

[RockyNomad]

The stuff in the can has lots of air dissolved in in because of the propellant. It just doesn't work as well as the good lathering soaps. Oh sure the stuff in the can will do the job, but just not as good as a good lathering shaving soap.

Is there anything inherently better from a chemical composition perspective?

[Fairlight]

Shaving soaps and creams are water based, whereas gels and foams are based on a solvent/propellant like pentane or isobutane. The canned stuff lubricates but can't effectively hydrate your face or the hair. Hydration makes it harder to cut/irritate your skin and easier to cut the hairs. Using a soap (creams are also technically soaps) also makes it a lot easier to clean your razor after use; this matters a lot more with multi-blade cartridge razors than DEs which can be opened or taken apart to clean inside.

Consider that you are also paying for the solvent/propellant, whereas water (which is BETTER) comes to your house free of charge through your plumbing. Additionally, the canned products rarely actually dispense the quantity of product which the can contains and which is printed on the label, whereas a tube of cream can be pretty effectively emptied and a puck of shaving soap can be used until it literally disappears.

[RockyNomad]

Shaving soaps and creams are water based, whereas gels and foams are based on a solvent/propellant like pentane or isobutane. The canned stuff lubricates but can't effectively hydrate your face or the hair. Hydration makes it harder to cut/irritate your skin and easier to cut the hairs. Using a soap (creams are also technically soaps) also makes it a lot easier to clean your razor after use; this matters a lot more with multi-blade cartridge razors than DEs which can be opened or taken apart to clean inside.

Consider that you are also paying for the solvent/propellant, whereas water (which is BETTER) comes to your house free of charge through your plumbing. Additionally, the canned products rarely actually dispense the quantity of product which the can contains and which is printed on the label, whereas a tube of cream can be pretty effectively emptied and a puck of shaving soap can be used until it literally disappears.

Now that is some helpful info. Thanks so much for the replies.

[Desdinova]

Is there anything inherently better from a chemical composition perspective?



YES!!!

A basic review of the ingredients listed on the labels shows the mass produced canned stuff if full of words that cannot be pronounced.


On a soap puck you may see a few of these types of ingredients, but mostly the ingredients are simple and older in cosmetics history

[Fairlight]

A basic review of the ingredients listed on the labels shows the mass produced canned stuff if full of words that cannot be pronounced.

Speaking as someone who can pronounce these ingredients, it doesn't make me much more eager to be putting isobutane on my skin. (Why yes, that *IS* in fact the same stuff that's in Bic lighters! Thank you for asking!)

[BroJohn]

Rocky --

The 'goo' is formulated for ease of use by a mass market. There really is no comparison to a fine lather from a good shave soap/cream using a brush. It's like comparing fast food to fine dining.

Welcome to B&B!

-- John Gehman

[RockyNomad]

Rocky --

The 'goo' is formulated for ease of use by a mass market. There really is no comparison to a fine lather from a good shave soap/cream using a brush. It's like comparing fast food to fine dining.

Welcome to B&B!

-- John Gehman

Sounds good. Now I'm trying to figure out a good starting point. I'm thinking about a sampler from Ogallala and I'm not sure about the brush. I was thinking tweezerman but I've read mixed reviews on Amazon. My budget is in the sub $30 range at this point.

[insomniac]

Sounds good. Now I'm trying to figure out a good starting point. I'm thinking about a sampler from Ogallala and I'm not sure about the brush. I was thinking tweezerman but I've read mixed reviews on Amazon. My budget is in the sub $30 range at this point.

The Tweezerman is fine; it was my first brush, probably the first brush of many here, and I still use it.

If there is a Target nearby, they may have the new Shea Moisture brush which costs $9 and so far seems to be performing well.

[mblakele]

Sounds good. Now I'm trying to figure out a good starting point. I'm thinking about a sampler from Ogallala and I'm not sure about the brush. I was thinking tweezerman but I've read mixed reviews on Amazon. My budget is in the sub $30 range at this point.

You can get a very nice boar for $30 - nicer than a badger in that price range will be.

[RockyNomad]

You can get a very nice boar for $30 - nicer than a badger in that price range will be.

I thought badger was considered better than boar?

[mblakele]

You couldn't prove it by my brush rotation (listed at the link in my signature). The really cheap boars, like the VdH or the Burma Shave, may not be much good - but a $20 boar is a much better brush than a $20 badger.

[RockyNomad]

You couldn't prove it by my brush rotation (listed at the link in my signature). The really cheap boars, like the VdH or the Burma Shave, may not be much good - but a $20 boar is a much better brush than a $20 badger.

So what are some quality boar suggestions? I was considering the Omega Pro.

[lennrupp]

Welcome fellow no0b and leave that canned stuff on the shelf after you get your first cream or puck.

[mblakele]

The Omega Pro (10049) is a great brush, but the high loft can be tricky for face-lathering. My favorite boar right now is the Omega 81052, despite the fake badger sketching (visually, I prefer a boar that looks like a boar). Most of my shaves alternate between the 81052 and a Rooney 3/1/F - which costs over 10x as much.

At some point I'm likely to get a Semogue 830 (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129891).

[RayH]

As for the difference between badger and boar. Depends on whether you want to use cream or soap. Many people feel that the boar is better for soaps because the bristles are stiffer while the badger with its softer bristles is better for creams. But in truth, a small dense badger will work just as well with both. Now price-wise a cheap boar by Omega is a good starting point. And if you want you could later on buy a badger by Omega too. Keep it in the family so to speak. But if you need more info just look in the review section of B&B and check out what people say about various brushes. Also you can go to Amazon and read the reviews there too. But in the long run your first brush probably won't be your last brush. You could end up with SBAD and end up with a dozen.

[Uncle Erik]

There are a couple more good reasons against canned goo.

First, even if it isn't harmful to humans, the chemicals get washed down the sink and can end up in the groundwater and/or water supply. Do you want to drink trace amounts of that? Or do you want plants and animals picking that up? I don't.

Second, the cans aren't always recyclable and often clutter landfills. When they decompose (eventually) and leak, they'll leach more of what's inside into the groundwater. Again, not something I want to be a part of.

Third, soaps are always cheaper, save for the really high end stuff, but even that compares considering the amount of shaves you get. The only puck I nearly finished was some Cade, and that took over a year. Still, there was a ring around the outside and I probably could have gotten a couple more months from it. A refill is about $10. A can of goo is $7 or $8 and lasts a month or two. Soap is cheaper.

Plus, like everyone here, I get much better shaves from real soap than the chemical stew.

[Atrin]

Try both and compare for yourself.

[taffy]

When i used a cartridge razor many moons ago i used to switch between the variuos canned goo, a bit of early rad i suppose, and found certain ones better and never really thought much else abut it, but as sooon as i tried my first cream/soap i noticed how superior it was in every way and even though now i am into wet shaving the only cartridge i use is the trac ii but would never dream about using a can with this razor as it just does not deliver even compred to the cheapest of soaps/creams available.

[denim]

it just does not deliver even compred to the cheapest of soaps/creams available.

Even Williams? :-D

[taffy]

Even Williams? :-D

Pass on that one as its available here in the uk, but plenty are for under a £1

[Fairlight]

First, even if it isn't harmful to humans, the chemicals get washed down the sink and can end up in the groundwater and/or water supply. Do you want to drink trace amounts of that? Or do you want plants and animals picking that up? I don't.

This isn't really a concern, because shaving water goes into the sewer system to be treated along with all the sewage. The chemicals involved may be harsh on your skin in some cases, but they aren't really environmental hazards. Certainly not compared to the plastic lining in canned foods.

Otherwise I agree with your post entirely, especially the part about the disposal of the cans themselves (which almost always have remaining product inside also).


Even Williams? :-D

Yes, even Williams. The canned goo will just be faster. If you think faster is better, knock yourself out.

[BroJohn]

Rocky --

Go to SaintCharlesShave.com and buy a shave soap of any flavor and they have a decent brush for $30. That'll get you started, and you can't go wrong with SCS and their products.

-- John Gehman

[langod]

Sounds good. Now I'm trying to figure out a good starting point. I'm thinking about a sampler from Ogallala and I'm not sure about the brush. I was thinking tweezerman but I've read mixed reviews on Amazon. My budget is in the sub $30 range at this point.

The Ogallala sampler is a great starting point. I use their soaps as my usual go-to shaving soap.

If you're concerned about the quality of the brush -- I would consider paying a bit more and maybe getting a slightly better Badger brush like the Edwin Jagger "Best Badger". Remember, a brush is a long term tool -- it'll last for years. You should be able to find it for about $40 and it's the same brush that Crabtree&Evelyn used to carry -- and was one of the most recommended starter brushes on this forum for a while. (I still use mine, it works great with Ogallala.)

[Speedwell68]

There are a couple more good reasons against canned goo.

First, even if it isn't harmful to humans, the chemicals get washed down the sink and can end up in the groundwater and/or water supply. Do you want to drink trace amounts of that? Or do you want plants and animals picking that up? I don't.

Second, the cans aren't always recyclable and often clutter landfills. When they decompose (eventually) and leak, they'll leach more of what's inside into the groundwater. Again, not something I want to be a part of.

Third, soaps are always cheaper, save for the really high end stuff, but even that compares considering the amount of shaves you get. The only puck I nearly finished was some Cade, and that took over a year. Still, there was a ring around the outside and I probably could have gotten a couple more months from it. A refill is about $10. A can of goo is $7 or $8 and lasts a month or two. Soap is cheaper.

Plus, like everyone here, I get much better shaves from real soap than the chemical stew.

Also, from the environmental point of view, isobutane is in fact one of the lesser greenhouse gases. Not good.

[Go West Young Man]

Watch out for Ogalala - their formulations (bay rum, peppercorns, etc.) can be irritating to some people's skin. I get red and irritated just being in the same room as a puck!
This might not be the best soap to learn with.

[Fairlight]

Also, from the environmental point of view, isobutane is in fact one of the lesser greenhouse gases. Not good.

Isobutane isn't on the IPCC list of greenhouse gases? I'm not sure where you got this idea. Perhaps you are thinking of methane.

[DESkydiver]

Rocky,

Welcome to B&B, I am sure you will find almost as many opinions as there are people posting, but when it comes to canned goo, I would bet the majority of folk here turn and run away.

There are a lot of wonderful products out there for soaps and creams, some are high end cost and others are quite inexpensive that can perform as well or better than another higher cost brand. You could probably pick up a puck of Williams or VDH in the same isle as the canned goop, for a lower cost and both will provide a better quality shave than canned. In fact, you could even buy a VDH boar brush right there too and get started.

I have used only Williams, VDH (Surrey), and Old Spice for many years with just a generic boar brush available. Yes, it is inexpensive and some consider cheap (quality wise), but even with the low end of the spectrum as it goes for soaps and brushes, it is infinitely better than any canned goop I have ever used in the past.

[kingfisher]

I prefer boar to badger. In that price range, you can get a MUCH better boar brush than you can a badger brush. Boar brushes take a week or two to break in, and then they rock.

[BlackBard]

The Ogallala sampler is a great starting point. I use their soaps as my usual go-to shaving soap.

If you're concerned about the quality of the brush -- I would consider paying a bit more and maybe getting a slightly better Badger brush like the Edwin Jagger "Best Badger". Remember, a brush is a long term tool -- it'll last for years. You should be able to find it for about $40 and it's the same brush that Crabtree&Evelyn used to carry -- and was one of the most recommended starter brushes on this forum for a while. (I still use mine, it works great with Ogallala.)

Agreed. The EJ Best Badger is my favorite. I've been using soap and a brush for about 45 years and tell you that this is a great value.

[RockyNomad]

The Edwin Jagger Best Badger looks like a really nice brush but with shipping it's almost $50. Not in the cards for me right now. What about some of the less expensive EJ brushes?

Kingfisher, what quality boar brushes would you recommend?

[Fairlight]

I have an Omega 66 boar brush that I am very happy with. My understanding is that quality is consistently high across the Omega range, and you just need to pick the size and handle you like.

I paid $13 for mine at Shopper's Drug Mart (Canadian chain) and I feel zero urge to find a replacement now that it is broken in (only took a couple days).

The same could not be said of the Wilkinson boar brush I tried. *coughgarbagecough*

[RockyNomad]

I have an Omega 66 boar brush that I am very happy with. My understanding is that quality is consistently high across the Omega range, and you just need to pick the size and handle you like.

I paid $13 for mine at Shopper's Drug Mart (Canadian chain) and I feel zero urge to find a replacement now that it is broken in (only took a couple days).

The same could not be said of the Wilkinson boar brush I tried. *coughgarbagecough*

I guess I'm at a loss as to picking size and loft. Any suggestions?

[Fairlight]

The Omega 49 "Professional" is probably the model I hear talked about the most. Basically, I mean just look at Omega's catalogue (http://www.omegabrush.com/english/dabarba/elenco.php?macro=5) and pick one that looks good to you.

I bought the 66 (10066 (http://www.omegabrush.com/english/dabarba/oggetto.php?id=64)) because it was on the shelf at SDM and I liked the look of it. There isn't the same demand for pretentiously expensive boar brushes as badger, so Omega is close to the top of the line for boar anyway. You can't go wrong with one of their brushes.

[s1mp13m4n]

Welcome to B&B my friend. :) I am glad you found us. Here is something you may find interesting. I am visually impaired and shave with a double edged razor, brush, and shave soap. (until a week and a half ago when I injured my elbow, I will resume as normal when I heal). :) From the standpoint of using feel, there is simply no comparision between canned "goo" and a shave soap and brush. Even at the most basic level, the $8 VDH kit from Walmart which has a great soap, an entry level brush, and a bowl (which I do not use)....you will find that this entry level setup will produce a shaving lather that will be far better than anything you may find in a can. The lather is slicker, creamier, not foamy because it is not airaited under preasure. It takes a bit of learning and time to get the lather right (adding the right soap to water ratio) but when you get it then you will find that it is much slicker and smoother than something from a can. :) I hope that this helps.

[Optometrist]

Rocky --

The 'goo' is formulated for ease of use by a mass market. There really is no comparison to a fine lather from a good shave soap/cream using a brush. It's like comparing fast food to fine dining.

Welcome to B&B!

-- John Gehman

Well said.

David

[kingfisher]

The Edwin Jagger Best Badger looks like a really nice brush but with shipping it's almost $50. Not in the cards for me right now. What about some of the less expensive EJ brushes?

Kingfisher, what quality boar brushes would you recommend?

I like the Omegas.

I have the 80097, and it's really nice. Just about perfect for me. Boar brushes take about a week or two to break in, and then they rock. At first, they have a funky smell and the ends are kind of scritchy. After a few latherings, the smell goes away. After a week or two, the ends of the hairs split and the scritchiness goes away.

the beauty of the boar brush is that it retains its "backbone" (strength in the lower part of the hairs, so it doesn't get floppy; this strength allows it to be a very effective tool for lathering soaps) and yet can be soft at the tips (so it is comfortable on the face).

I didn't check the latest pricing, but you could probably snag the exact brush I have for about twenty bucks or so. Well worth the coin, and (IMO) about TEN times nicer than the Tweezerman badger for about the same price.

[PanchoVilla]

I know canned goo is taboo around here but:

There is the rare occasion that I'm in a hurry, and simply wetting my beard, face lathering w/ 'Nivea gel for sensitive skin', using a good boar brush and then 2 passes w/ my Mergress at a slightly less aggressive setting gives a DFS.

Now there's a long sentence.:biggrin1:

JMO

And I do have a heavy beard.

[icedoverfire]

Playing devil's advocate here....

Not all canned goo is bad... A lot of folks on the forums think Barbasol and Nivea are good when it comes to canned goo.

However, that being said, soaps and creams have one advantage over canned goo: heat.

I'm pretty sure this was mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, but all the propellants used in the canned stuff have a cooling effect on skin - this tenses your facial muscles and prevents a real CCS from being had.

On the flip side, any boar or badger brush left in a sink full of hot water for a few minutes then loaded with some soap or cream will feel a helluva lot nicer on your face, relax your facial muscles and also soften up your whiskers as you lather up. And besides, it's just plain fun!

If you're still looking for a brush, in my opinion can't go wrong with the Tweezerman badger brush ($15).... it's currently the only brush I own, yes, but I think it performs reasonably well for the $$.

Best,

-ice

[billc508]

In the interest of being as helpful as possible in getting someone off to
the best start in life, here is some insight, MEN shave with soap.
Cans are what you drink beer from. These helpful tips should clear
up all confusion.

[RockyNomad]

Ok, I'm narrowing my options for a first brush. I love the EJ BBB but that is out of my price range. I then looked at boar brushes and decided on the Omega 10066 based on feedback that these are good brushes and a quality boar is better than a cheap badger. Now, I'm also looking at:
Edwin Jagger Black Badger Tortoise
Omega 63185 Pure Badger Shaving Brush

Do these fall under the realm of "cheap" badger brushes? Would I do better to stick with the boar listed above?

[Maximus2]

You might also want to check out the badger brush they're now selling for $8 at Target (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=146397) (link is to a thread here). I got one and have been using it, and people who are actually qualified to speak on the topic have been giving it fairly good reviews.

[RockyNomad]

Oh good Lord. I was reading further on the forum and saw the Semogue 1305. What a neat looking brush, great reviews, and an affordable price. I'm a mess. The options are endless and new brushes pop into the running every hour.

[Maximus2]

RockyNomad, I know what you mean. I'm having the same problem with brushes, soaps, creams, blades, aftershaves... I'm going to do my best to stick with what I've already bought for now. But...

[RockyNomad]

RockyNomad, I know what you mean. I'm having the same problem with brushes, soaps, creams, blades, aftershaves... I'm going to do my best to stick with what I've already bought for now. But...

I haven't bought anything yet but have decided on:
-Merkur HD
-Probably a puck of Tabac and a puck of Mitchell's Wool Fat Soap (I already have some megastore shave cream which, up until now, never realized I was applying it completely wrong. Yes, I was just slathering it on my face and never liked it. Duh, it doesn't get lathery that way.)
-A sampler of blades
-The brush is still undecided but I'm really digging that Semogue 1305 this hour.

[Go West Young Man]

Stop overthinking it, just buy something, they're all going to be good!