Lather too dry? Slow down!

[deere]

Hi all.

I've been having some problem getting my lather wet enough. It certainly looks the part, but it insta-dries on my face because it is underhydrated. My attempts to add more water has failed miserably. I usually end up with a impressive but useless bowl of fluff - loads of lather consisting of air mostly.

So I tried another route. I slowed down my whipping a lot and wow! I could add so much water to the mix that it was just silly. I ended up with the best and most hydrated lather I've ever had since I began wetshaving.

Obviously there is nothing revolutionary about this little discovery, and I suppose most BB members already knows how to make a nice, wet lather. Nevertheless, I've seen quite a few posts from people complaining about too dry lather. Well, adding more water sounds simple enough, but if your whipping technique is lacking just adding more water won't help. Sorry.

My technique was basically The Human Powerdrill: I just went *FRRRRRRRRRRRR!!* as fast as I could, with some pumping motions thrown in every now and then. I don't know why I did, honestly. I've watched Mantic's videos several times (great job, Mark!) and he certainly doesn't go berserk with the brush. My (new) tempo might be somewhat slower paced though, but at least I didn't get my crazy need for speed from Mark.

The thing is, that with a high speed whipping motion, you can get a very nice looking, meringue-esque lather with only a few drops water. It is very deceitful.

Ok, here comes the hard part: describing whipping technique. I don't have a RPM number, but take a look at Mark's videos and that'll put you in the ballpark. Actually, I think of it as more of a stiring/whipping mix than a pure whipping motion. Also, go easy on the bristles against the walls of the bowl. Don't whack the brush around, pumping up and down and all those little tricks I used to do. Just gently stir/whip the mix and add a little more water at a time until you have a nice wet lather.

Like I said, many of you guys already know all this, but I think the actual whipping is a somewhat overlooked part in the art of making the perfect lather. Plus, as wetshaving seems to gain in popularity it doesn't hurt if the all newbies (like myself) learned that whipping technique makes a difference and that it is very easy to get it wrong. And finally (as always), YMMV depending on brush, cream, bowl, water and so on. I've based the above mentioned on using (mostly) the E&J Best Badger and Palmolive Euro, Proraso green tube and Taylor's Rose.

Good luck.

[JohnP]

Nice tip.
Not something I've paid attention to, really, but now that you mention it, pretty sure I've noticed something similar. Good catch.
John P.

[qhsdoitall]

I had the same problem. I was reading, whip it, whip it, whip it. I didn't like how that came out and did just what you did. Slowed it down, used the tip more and eased up on the mashing. Got great hydrated lather after that.

[galpman]

Works especially good with soaps:badger:

[Smedley]

Thanks for the tip, I'll try it out tomorrow!

[Navy Chief]

Interesting, I am wondering now if I am over whipping my lather. Only one way to find out and that is to slow it down and see what happens.

[Kmitch]

Thanks for the tip, I will also try it in the morning.

[Juaquin]

I'm not a scientist (studying to be an engineer though), but I propose that the reason this works is because with fast whipping, you're working a lot of air into the lather and that builds it up, making it look rich while it's actually just air. If you slow it down, you're not furiously forcing air into the lather. I could very well be wrong, but that's just my theory.

[Lord Jefferey]

It makes perfect sense now that I think about it. I have been having the same issue with soaps. I will give this a try in the morning.

[mantic]

Good observations here. deere, that's correct, I use more of a stirring motion vs. a whipping motion, along with a gentle pump every once in a while...and in fact I've taken to including a bit of a side-to-side "wiping" motion as well. I'm going to do another lathering video going into a little more detail speicifically on mixing and applying cream (vs. soap) lather to the face.

--Mark

[Bob Dobbs]

Great tip Deere-

Tomorrow I'll go sloooooooooow!:biggrin:

[htownmmm]

Amazing how 'going slow' works so well in the various steps of wetshaving. :biggrin:



Marty

[shifts]

Thanks for the tip, will try it out tomorrow!

[Hawkeye5]

I also have noticed the lather drying more than I would have thought by the time I get to the left side of my face and neck. I have been using a vigorous whipping of the cream to make lather.
I shall slow down and see what happens. Thanks.

[tim8557]

Great tip. I switched from soaps to creams for specifically that "looks good but dries" phenomena. The creams are an improvement but tomorrow morning I'm slowin' it down.

[Leisureguy]

Try a shaving stick sometime. You rub it against the grain all over your wet beard, and then use a wet brush to build the lather on your face. You may have to dip the edge of the brush in hot water a time or two to get the lather you want, but you automatically are not whipping the lather. Also, as you work the lather up, you're also working it into your beard. The whole process is very nice. QED has a number of shaving sticks (http://www.qedusa.com/cat_OtherProducts.htm), from Unscented (for sensitive skin) to Mocha-Java (for people who like Mocha-Java).

[Doc4]

Ditto on the thanks and I'll try tomorrow.

[shifts]

Try a shaving stick sometime. You rub it against the grain all over your wet beard, and then use a wet brush to build the lather on your face. You may have to dip the edge of the brush in hot water a time or two to get the lather you want, but you automatically are not whipping the lather. Also, as you work the lather up, you're also working it into your beard. The whole process is very nice. QED has a number of shaving sticks (http://www.qedusa.com/cat_OtherProducts.htm), from Unscented (for sensitive skin) to Mocha-Java (for people who like Mocha-Java).

I actually purchased two a few weeks ago, Sandalwood and Lime, but even though building lather was nice and easy, I don't get very comfortable shaves. A lot of tugging compared to my Proraso cream and the lather from the QED seemed to get dry very VERY fast. I'm sticking to the Proraso while I'm learning I think, but I'll eventually get back to the nice sticks later on...

[Leisureguy]

Interesting. Well, certainly while you're learning, stick with what works. After a while, try the shaving sticks again, and keep adding little bits of water beyond what you've done before. Just a thought.

[allmodcons]

I'm also trying this in the morning. The Nancy Boy cream I whipped up this morning was pathetically dry and I've noticed the other creams I've whipped up have exhibited this quick drying problem. Never considered it was a function of over whipping. :nono:

[netsurfr]

Excellent thread!
I have sometimes wound up with a dry lather and did not quite know how I got there and did not seem to be able to fix it. I think I usually ended up adding a little more soap and basicly starting over.

[MCsommerreid]

I make my lather a little dry initially to facilitate clean applying to my face. However, once it's on there I get the tip of the brush good and wet with warm water go over it again, get a little more water and go over it, unless the lather really glosses up and smooths out.

When I get it nice and wet in the mug I tend to get it all over the place and make a mess. Much cleaner, and you can really see when it's ready by how glossy and fine the air bubbles are (if there even are any that you can see).

[mackal]

I was going to post a question about lather drying up super fast on my last couple of runs, but lo'and'behold, this thread was trolled up by the Search function. :thumbup1:

Over the past few days my lather has been getting worse and worse, and I didn't know why. Today the lather on my neck was like dry paint by the time I got to it after the first pass on my cheeks! The annoying thing is I think I already knew about overwhipping, hence why I had such excellent foam with Proraso the first time DE shaving... like all other steps on that day, I took everything slow, and it was as if the beautiful lather was just "pouring out" of the brush. I've since been getting a bit impatient with lather-making, which has been taking over 10 minutes on average (due to the add-drop, swirl-swirl-swirl, add-drop, ...), hence why I was speeding up, culminating in humming bird speeds earlier today. :whistling: I'll have to try going slow again tomorrow.

But this brings up a question: other than "you just have to get a feel for how much water you need", is there some other rule of thumb/method/tips for generating decent lather relatively quickly (i.e., under 10 minutes)? The adding of water drop by drop a 100 times is killing me... :frown: Or perhaps I am deceived, and 10 minutes is not an insane amount of time like I think it is... how long does it take you to prepare lather every day?

Disclaimer: I am using Proraso green shaving cream, but a cheap $7CAD brush from Walmart (so no badger brush).

EDIT: BTW, a related question: the use of scuttles and the general idea of heating lather... is this purely for comfort/pleasure, or does the heat actually enhance the lather building process in some fundamental way?

[ianmedium]

[QUOTE=mackal;249014]I was going to post a question about lather drying up super fast on my last couple of runs, but lo'and'behold, this thread was trolled up by the Search function. :thumbup1:

Over the past few days my lather has been getting worse and worse, and I didn't know why. Today the lather on my neck was like dry paint by the time I got to it after the first pass on my cheeks! The annoying thing is I think I already knew about overwhipping, hence why I had such excellent foam with Proraso the first time DE shaving... like all other steps on that day, I took everything slow, and it was as if the beautiful lather was just "pouring out" of the brush. I've since been getting a bit impatient with lather-making, which has been taking over 10 minutes on average (due to the add-drop, swirl-swirl-swirl, add-drop, ...), hence why I was speeding up, culminating in humming bird speeds earlier today. :whistling: I'll have to try going slow again tomorrow.




I wonder if this has anything to do with summer. For the past week in Vancouver the temperature has gone up to 30degrees C and I noticed that my lather has been feeling drier as well as my skin when shaving, I have added a bit more water but 3/4 the way through a pass my skin and lather feel dry. Does anyone in hotter climes, e.g Texas southern California or Arizona have any imput on this to verify it. It got cooler today and I noticed my shave was better!

I have been using C&E sweet almond shaving cream but that dried out quite quickly switching back to the proraso helps I find. Also I checked Mantics invaluable youtube resource and tried one of his tricks about super lather, he uses glycerine soap lathered up and then adds a dollop of proraso I tried it today with some pears soap as that is all I had to hand and it certainly gave a slicker shave, that helped as well as the temp change I think!
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N0C1cLELQo

As to brushes, well I tried the cheap man made bristle bodyshop brush that I started with to see if that made a difference to my usual C&E BB and boy it did, the lather was even drier and so was my face so I switched back to the BB!

From my understanding the Badger hair hydrates better than boar or man made!
Let me know how you get on!

[randymacstraightshave]

[QUOTE=mackal;249014]I was going to post a question about lather drying up super fast on my last couple of runs, but lo'and'behold, this thread was trolled up by the Search function. :thumbup1:

Over the past few days my lather has been getting worse and worse, and I didn't know why. Today the lather on my neck was like dry paint by the time I got to it after the first pass on my cheeks! The annoying thing is I think I already knew about overwhipping, hence why I had such excellent foam with Proraso the first time DE shaving... like all other steps on that day, I took everything slow, and it was as if the beautiful lather was just "pouring out" of the brush. I've since been getting a bit impatient with lather-making, which has been taking over 10 minutes on average (due to the add-drop, swirl-swirl-swirl, add-drop, ...), hence why I was speeding up, culminating in humming bird speeds earlier today. :whistling: I'll have to try going slow again tomorrow.




I wonder if this has anything to do with summer. For the past week in Vancouver the temperature has gone up to 30degrees C and I noticed that my lather has been feeling drier as well as my skin when shaving, I have added a bit more water but 3/4 the way through a pass my skin and lather feel dry. Does anyone in hotter climes, e.g Texas southern California or Arizona have any imput on this to verify it. It got cooler today and I noticed my shave was better!

I have been using C&E sweet almond shaving cream but that dried out quite quickly switching back to the proraso helps I find. Also I checked Mantics invaluable youtube resource and tried one of his tricks about super lather, he uses glycerine soap lathered up and then adds a dollop of proraso I tried it today with some pears soap as that is all I had to hand and it certainly gave a slicker shave, that helped as well as the temp change I think!
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N0C1cLELQo

As to brushes, well I tried the cheap man made bristle bodyshop brush that I started with to see if that made a difference to my usual C&E BB and boy it did, the lather was even drier and so was my face so I switched back to the BB!

From my understanding the Badger hair hydrates better than boar or man made!
Let me know how you get on!


Well if you are shaving in an air conditioned room, I don't think the outside weather effects you much. I have noticed that AC dries you out wicked quick. Damn condensers!

[farace]

I tried slowing down this morning and the lather was much better. Thanks for the tip.

[Emilius]

Very helpful thread! I usually build a decent lather in the bowl, and the apply it on my face: it looks thick and shiny, but after I leave the brush on the counter, dry my fingertips with the towel and grab the razor I look at myself in the mirror and I can see the lather drying... I guess slow is the key word.

[mackal]

I slowed down today, and it was better (much less drying), but still could not get as good lather as I did the first time... oh well, I think I'll just make do until I get my badger brush (instead of current boar/cheapo), and then I'll start more serious experimentation. :001_smile