The Case for Cold Water Shaving

[ryanl7640]

Anyone see this (http://artofmanliness.com/2010/03/24/cold-water-shaving/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheArtOfManliness+%28The+Art+ of+Manliness%29)at The Art of Manliness?

I think I might give this a try and see what happens- as long as I don't jump out of my skin!:w00t:

[DougK]

I've shaved with cold water when I had to and it didn't cause me any major issues, but I certainly won't go out of my way to do it again.

[McShaverson]

I have yet to try cold water, but along the same lines I have used Bayrum and it works rather well. The routine goes something like this...

Using warm water.

1. Make lather
2. Apply Bayrum
3. Rub lather in with fingers (sort of like a facial massage)
4. Wipe off lather
5. Re-lather with brush and go about your shaving routine as normal

Using this method and warm wather I find it to be the best of both worlds. I don't have to deal with the tenderness that hot water brings and I don't have to endure cold water. (which I find highly uncomfortable) It also leaves my face feeling greeeeat.

If you're thinking about giving cold water a shot maybe you could compare the two. I'd like to know if the results are similar.

-Kevin

[ryanl7640]

I will give that a shot and post my results!

[otherstar]

I shaved with cold water for 6 days straight while we were without power after Hurricane Ike. I used a lot of CO Bigelow and AV that week for the double cooling sensation. Since it was late summer it wasn't too bad, but I wouldn't do it on a regular basis.

[ryanl7640]

What I also find interesting is that I have heard that some soaps do better lathering at cooler temps. I think I have heard that MWF seems to sepearte out the Lanolin if you soak with warm water. Just yesterday, I noticed that my williams seemed to do better after sitting a while....

[Dennard]

I enjoy shaving with cold water. I do it more often in spring and summer, but it's nice any time of year.

[82R100]

I did cold rinses all last summer. If you decide that you're doing it voluntarily it can be quite pleasant.

- Chris

[dpmtherrien]

There's nothing wrong with cold water shaves, but for me there is nothing appealing about them. If I have to, for whatever the reason, I'll do one, but I don't like it at all.

I find a shave very relaxing, and using cold water does not lend itself to the same relaxing feeling. :001_rolle

[BlackBard]

I have not shaved with cold water since my last steel pot shave. Not sure I want to revive the memory.

[ryanl7640]

Tried the cold water today...

Lather from Williams seemed to build faster. As far as the actual shave went, seemed to require more "work" to move the SR through the hair. Did not seem any closer, and the cold was not too uncomfortable. My skin did seem to feel softer afterwards. I think I will give this a try for a week, as well as with a DE and see what happens.

[drburt]

I have shaved with cold water while I was in the army. I will even admit to having dry shaved a couple of times. While neither did me any true harm, I do not care to do either again.

Burt

[sdaniels]

i cold water shaved and it was easily my worst shave yet...the alum block afterward was almost unbearable and I felt constant tugging the entire shave.

[YetiDave]

I shave with nothing but cold water. I've found I can get consistently closer shaves with none of the irritation I experienced with a hot/warm shave. I won't be going back to hot. The theory behind it is sound - the cold water keeps your skin taught and contracts blood vessels which helps the hair stand up, whereas a hot shave will make blood vessels expand and make your skin a little puffy and more prone to irritation. Also it keeps the hair tougher so you can slice it easier - warm water tends to make it more pliable and prone to tugging. Not for everyone, but I've found cold shaving to be far superior

[HoosierTrooper]

Nine months straight of cold water shaves and I couldn't be happier. If you read through the various cold water shaving threads you'll find a lot of guys getting less irritation and better shaves using cold/cool water instead of hot.

I don't foresee ever using hot water again as I don't see any benefit from it.

[oc_in_fw]

I am not on the western front, and I have a hot water heater (plus a fireplace if the hot water heater goes tango uniform). Caveman invented fire for a reason.

[kg0mz]

I am a recent convert. When I fiddled with cold water last winter I saw a slight improvement, but discounted the idea as cruel and unusual. This time of year the cold water is refreshing. I have some soaps that actually lather easier/better in a cold water scuttle. Unmistakably, there is less irritation with Feather blades, or any blade for that matter. In this weather, the advantages outweigh the discomfort. Well, I have acclimated, so there is no real discomfort.

I was a huge skeptic, but I get better shaves using cold water. YMMV.

[kingfisher]

I shave with nothing but cold water. ..

I've found that a razor makes the beard-reduction part a bit less painful....:lol:

[YetiDave]

I've found that a razor makes the beard-reduction part a bit less painful....:lol:

Smart arse :lol:

[TheVez2]

Cold water gives a better shave. The argument here is that a soft beard is hard to shave, while a stiff beard is easier to cut. Hot water makes your beard soft; cold water keeps the whiskers stiff. Thus, cold water renders a better shave.

True? I don't know. But this conflicts with everything I've learned on this site about pre-shave prep.

According to Kyle's Prep: Applying warm/hot water both damages the cuticle (hard outer layer of the hair) and hydrates the whiskers. I've always read that warm water softens the beard and makes the whiskers easier to cut. The above article says that stiff whiskers are easier to cut. :confused1

So which is it?

[ZJ68]

True? I don't know. But this conflicts with everything I've learned on this site about pre-shave prep.
The newest source they quote is over a hundred years old. I tend to favor newer information.

In any case, for me the thought shaving with cold water is about as enticing as that of brushing my teeth with hot water. Yuck. Cold razors creep me out, and cold lather is just revolting.

[franz]

I like a cold water shave from time to time. Most of the time I use tepid or cool water. If the reason for CWS is to cut down on irritation (a huge benefit for some of us), using tepid water instead of hot water will accomplish the same thing.

If you're that much of a sally you can always take a hot shower beforehand :001_tt2:

[doug1066]

i am not on the western front, and i have a hot water heater (plus a fireplace if the hot water heater goes tango uniform). Caveman invented fire for a reason.
+1

[Go West Young Man]

True? I don't know. But this conflicts with everything I've learned on this site about pre-shave prep.

According to Kyle's Prep: Applying warm/hot water both damages the cuticle (hard outer layer of the hair) and hydrates the whiskers. I've always read that warm water softens the beard and makes the whiskers easier to cut. The above article says that stiff whiskers are easier to cut. :confused1

So which is it?

Kyle's prep is more about letting the alkiline mixture that is lather break down the surface of the hairs and introducing a lot of moisture into the hairs to soften them up. I don't think the temperature has much to do with it either way.

[California Cajun]

It's better to make the case in summer than in winter.

But yes, it is supposed to be the correct way, and I have done it with good results.

[TheVez2]

I understand there's more to Kyle's Prep than just temperature, but the temperature was a factor. And I've read over and over that your prep should be either a hot shower or a hot towel, or at least a splash of hot water to help soften the beard. But that really isn't my question. I think it is a fact that hot water will help soften a beard, and that isn't disputed on either side of the debate.

My question is, which is easier for a blade to cut:

A soft whisker, as achieved form a warm/hot water prep.
or
A stiff whisker, as achieved from a cold water shave.

Both sides say their way is easier to cut.

[kingfisher]

TheVez;

There's no answer to your question. The people who think the whisker should be soft will say they're right, and the others will say they're right.

The info about keeping the hair as stiff as possible came from a book on shaving written in the early part of the 20th century. The idea is that you will get a closer shave when the hairs are stiffer, because they can't "run away" from the blade, so they get cut off right away.

The alkaline soap/warm water/weaken the hair camp says you want the hairs as soft as possible so your blade can cut through them more easily. (The ones who say soft hair is bad say that the noodle-consistency hairs can "duck under" your blade and not even get cut.)

I don't believe that anybody has a definitive answer. Try both ways and see what YOU think.

I'm firmly in the tepid water camp. In other words, I believe that hot water generally worsens irritation, but I can't stand a cold water shave.

[franz]

I understand there's more to Kyle's Prep than just temperature, but the temperature was a factor. And I've read over and over that your prep should be either a hot shower or a hot towel, or at least a splash of hot water to help soften the beard. But that really isn't my question. I think it is a fact that hot water will help soften a beard, and that isn't disputed on either side of the debate.

My question is, which is easier for a blade to cut:

A soft whisker, as achieved form a warm/hot water prep.
or
A stiff whisker, as achieved from a cold water shave.

Both sides say their way is easier to cut.

I think what Chris was saying is right. Hot water may speed up the process of softening a whisker, but it's really damaging the cuticle that does the job, and all you need for that is good lather and some scrubbing action.

I suspect the advantages of CWS for closeness have more to do with making the whisker stand up, thereby exposing more of the hair to the blade, rather than making the cutting itself easier. But it's hard to separate out these observations sometimes.

[Optionyout]

I know that my facial hair is curly and when I use warm/hot water it softens the hair so when the razor rolls over it it tend to push many hairs flat against the skin. Thus, many hair are never cut and I need to make extra passes. These extra passes don't necessarily work and also can cause ingrown hairs. With cold water the hairs stand up and each swipe captures pretty much all the hairs.

Those that mention drag can remedy that with preshave oil. I use it and have no tugging issues at all.

[TheVez2]

I don't believe that anybody has a definitive answer. Try both ways and see what YOU think.

I think I'll do that. I'll try a few days to a week of each way and see what differences I note. Unfortunately, I'll want to keep all other variables constant, so that means 2 weeks of the same soap. Not sure if I can do that, eek!

[HoosierTrooper]

The newest source they quote is over a hundred years old. I tend to favor newer information.

There's plenty of new information right here from guys doing it now and getting great results.

[ZJ68]

There's plenty of new information right here from guys doing it now and getting great results.
That's anecdotal evidence. How about actual information on water absorption by hair follicles and its effect on their strength and effort required to cut them? What, exactly, is the relationship between the temperature of the water used and the effect of the razor on the bristles and the skin? Information that allows us to determine how and why various techniques work.

[franz]

That's anecdotal evidence. How about actual information on water absorption by hair follicles and its effect on their strength and effort required to cut them? What, exactly, is the relationship between the temperature of the water used and the effect of the razor on the bristles and the skin? Information that allows us to determine how and why various techniques work.

Or you could just try it. All shaving's anecdotal. It's easy to get involved in scientific abstractions that may or may not get you closer to the truth. Experience trumps theory.

I don't mean this in a contentious way, so take it for what it's worth. But the burden of proof is on you as a skeptic, not on those of us who find CWS effective and -- dare I say it? -- enjoyable.

[HoosierTrooper]

That's anecdotal evidence. How about actual information on water absorption by hair follicles and its effect on their strength and effort required to cut them? What, exactly, is the relationship between the temperature of the water used and the effect of the razor on the bristles and the skin? Information that allows us to determine how and why various techniques work.

I think first hand accounts of what works is important, and shouldn't be dismissed because the person reporting the observations can't explain it scientifically. If guys who've had problems with irritation using hot water find that using cold water eliminates the irritation then that should stand on it's own merits.

Someone would have to conduct a controlled scientific study to answer your questions, and I don't see anyone doing that. Has anyone shown scientifically, under controlled laboratory conditions and peer rated conclusions, that hot towels and hot water gives a superior shave?

I've pointed out my observation on my Van Dyke when I shower. In only a matter of seconds in the shower it is thoroughly soaked and "limp" for lack of a better word. Same when I swim. It doesn't take exraordinary measures to get some hydration into human hair.

[mmack66]

or you could just try it. All shaving's anecdotal. It's easy to get involved in scientific abstractions that may or may not get you closer to the truth. Experience trumps theory.

I don't mean this in a contentious way, so take it for what it's worth. But the burden of proof is on you as a skeptic, not on those of us who find cws effective and -- dare i say it? -- enjoyable.

+1

[rajagra]

I wonder if there is a correlation between people who cold water shave and those who need to change their blade every 2 or 3 shaves? Cutting through closed cuticles rather than passing between open cuticles and popping the hair would demand a sharper edge and also blunt the blade faster. Just a thought.

[HoosierTrooper]

If you're that much of a sally you can always take a hot shower beforehand :001_tt2:


Good point. We're not talking about going outside and chipping through six inches of ice on the rain barrell or fishing pond and sticking your head in it and shaving outside with a wind chill of -20. It's a few splashes of tap water while standing in a bathroom in a house that hopefully has some kind of temperature control system.

Some of the guys sound like they'd end up in the ER being treated for hypothermia if they splash a little cold water on their face!:w00t:

[oc_in_fw]

I think I'll do that. I'll try a few days to a week of each way and see what differences I note. Unfortunately, I'll want to keep all other variables constant, so that means 2 weeks of the same soap. Not sure if I can do that, eek!

Yes, it is good to try it to see what works for you. The hair in my Charlie Chaplain are is VERY course. Every time I have cold shaved it ATG it has hurt (growing that area is not an option- Hitler ruined that style). If I shower with warm to hot water, lather it with shampoo and let it sit, rinse after I am done with the body works for me.

[jwcarlson]

That's anecdotal evidence. How about actual information on water absorption by hair follicles and its effect on their strength and effort required to cut them? What, exactly, is the relationship between the temperature of the water used and the effect of the razor on the bristles and the skin? Information that allows us to determine how and why various techniques work.

Why does it matter what the absorbtion rate of a male's facial hair is if the method is working? This isn't a science fair, it's a shaving forum. But the complexitive of Kyle's Prep sounds right up your alley! :)

I've been cold water shaving for over a month and I absolutely love it. I won't be using hot or warm water again anytime soon.

[Go West Young Man]

I understand there's more to Kyle's Prep than just temperature, but the temperature was a factor

Kyle was just a guy who copied a set of instructions from a musty old barber's manual he happened across and found that it worked for him. I'm pretty sure he's be OK with you adapting his personal routine to your own needs. :wink2:



I And I've read over and over that your prep should be either a hot shower or a hot towel, or at least a splash of hot water to help soften the beard.

Then you've either only read half the threads on B+B, or you've listened very selectively. The "cold water" guys are way more prolific (I was going to say belligerent :001_tt2: ) in posting than the "hot water" guys.


\\
My question is, which is easier for a blade to cut:

A soft whisker, as achieved form a warm/hot water prep.
or
A stiff whisker, as achieved from a cold water shave.

Both sides say their way is easier to cut.

On my face, at least, I don't see the temperature affecting the softness of the whisker so much as the swelling or tightening of the skin below the hair. Too hot, the skin swells and softens and get chunked up. Too cold, the skin tightens up and doesn't let the blade glide smoothly. Just right, and the skin pulls away from the hairs slightly, leading to a good close shave, but doesn't get in the way of the blade.

[M80]

How about actual information on water absorption by hair follicles and its effect on their strength and effort required to cut them?

Here you go.

Chemical and physical behavior of human hair (http://books.google.com/books?id=-UTEKeEypjEC&lpg=PA90&ots=svqpdA7Dw8&dq=water%20binding%20of%20amino%20and%20guanidino% 20groups&pg=PA89#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Chapter 2
Water: A Fundamental Component of Human Hair
The effects of water on swelling, friction, tensile, and other properties of human hair are discussed in chapter 8.

[ZJ68]

Or you could just try it. All shaving's anecdotal.
No, it isn't. Everything works for a reason. There are physical laws which govern everything in the universe. Knowing how and why things work makes it much easier to improve what you're doing. People's hair and skin vary to a degree, but they are all subject to the same physiology.

[ZJ68]

Here you go.

Chemical and physical behavior of human hair (http://books.google.com/books?id=-UTEKeEypjEC&lpg=PA90&ots=svqpdA7Dw8&dq=water%20binding%20of%20amino%20and%20guanidino% 20groups&pg=PA89#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Chapter 2
Water: A Fundamental Component of Human Hair
The effects of water on swelling, friction, tensile, and other properties of human hair are discussed in chapter 8.
Thank you, unfortunately chapter 8 is not available online. I'll see if I can track down a copy.

[franz]

No, it isn't. Everything works for a reason. There are physical laws which govern everything in the universe. Knowing how and why things work makes it much easier to improve what you're doing. People's hair and skin vary to a degree, but they are all subject to the same physiology.

Implying that I don't think the physical laws of nature govern shaving is a really weird reading of my comment. :confused1

It's fine to be a contrarian, but I can't understand the attitude that it's okay to dismiss the efficacy of a shaving routine in the abstract, without even trying it, in the face of evidence to the contrary.

[ZJ68]

Implying that I don't think the physical laws of nature govern shaving is a really weird reading of my comment. :confused1

It's fine to be a contrarian, but I can't understand the attitude that it's okay to dismiss the efficacy of a shaving routine in the abstract, without even trying it, in the face of evidence to the contrary. It seems, quite frankly, arrogant and presumptuous.
I was dismissing anecdotal evidence as a substitute for actual data, not cold water shaving. There was a question as to the contradictory claims about what makes whiskers easier to cut. I'd like to see an answer to that, and it works for me is not a relevant answer.

I believe there's also a question as to whether or not the ease of cutting is responsible for reduced irritation some people get with cold water shaving.

This is curiosity, not being contrarian, or an attack on cold water shaving. I won't try it because I think it's revolting. However, I believe knowing how it works may be useful in improving more attractive methods of shaving.

[M80]

Thank you, unfortunately chapter 8 is not available online. I'll see if I can track down a copy.

Chapter 8... (actually, the whole book)
http://www.amazon.com/Chemical-Physical-Behavior-Human-Hair/dp/038795094X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305070146&sr=1-1#reader_038795094X

[franz]

I was dismissing anecdotal evidence as a substitute for actual data, not cold water shaving. There was a question as to the contradictory claims about what makes whiskers easier to cut. I'd like to see an answer to that, and it works for me is not a relevant answer.

I believe there's also a question as to whether or not the ease of cutting is responsible for reduced irritation some people get with cold water shaving.

This is curiosity, not being contrarian, or an attack on cold water shaving. I won't try it because I think it's revolting. However, I believe knowing how it works may be useful in improving more attractive methods of shaving.

The context in which you made your comments said otherwise. To me, at least. Either way, I'll take you at your word and hope you find something interesting to share with the rest of us. :thumbup1:

[Alacrity59]

No, it isn't. Everything works for a reason. There are physical laws which govern everything in the universe. Knowing how and why things work makes it much easier to improve what you're doing. People's hair and skin vary to a degree, but they are all subject to the same physiology.

So do you try something and like it then try to figure out the reason why it works . . . or work out why something should work optimally and then try it?

Many great discoveries have been made by serendipity. . . Nylon comes to mind.

Many great discoveries have been made by trial and error . . . Edison . . . light bulb?

Many great discoveries have been made by theory, mathematics, physics . . . atomic energy, the earth goes around the sun.

When you first start shaving you arrive at a combination that works best for you. As your skills develop you will probably find a few more way that work . . . and you get to adapt your game to fit the conditions on the field . . . so to speak.


Best of luck.

Mike

[ZJ68]

So do you try something and like it then try to figure out the reason why it works . . . or work out why something should work optimally and then try it?
I like to know how and why something is supposed to work before I try it. I find that tends to work best and saves pain.

[Blue Raccoon]

help me understand.. when folks are saying cold water are we talking the water from the cold side of the tap which is really closer to room temp or are you talking about cold water as in cooled in the frig or melted snow?

why do folks spend so much time trying to convert folks to their way of doing things? if cold/room temp/warm/hot floats your boat, it's your boat.

the AoM link was before indoor plumbing.. I suspect waiting on the wife to go pump water from the well and build a fire in the stove to get hot water wasn't really worth the wait.

[bkfist]

I see two problems...

1. Hot water isn't that hard to come by these days... OK, at least for most people... My water heater is on the fritz, I have to go down stairs into the "dungeon" every morning and light it, wait 45 minutes to an hour for it to get hot before showering/shaving, but that's just me... I'm sure most of the members here turn on the tap, wait a few seconds, and get hot water.

2. Taking the "a soft hair (from hot water) leads to pulling of the roots" and a less comfortable shave to it's logical conclusion... If you want the hardest hair possible to shave, make sure you shave BEFORE you shower, do NOT wet your face, do NOT let the lather sit on the beard to soften them at all... In fact, simply applying a little bit of shaving oil immediately before running the razor over the face to lubricate the blade **SHOULD** give you the closest and most comfortable shave of your life. If you do want to use lather, you should either bowl or hand lather, apply the cold lather as quickly to the beard as possible and begin shaving your face *immediately*.

Do, that, and get back to us as to how smoothly and comfortably the razor blade passed over your whiskers thanks to them not being "soft and flopping over, having the razor drag along the length of the hair, causing undue pulling of the root."

Really, what you are aiming for is a "dry shave" with just enough lubrication/cushion to make the test "fair"

Now, can a cold shave give you a good shave, quite possibly... can it be better than a hot/warm shave, quite possibly, but it is NOT because a warm shave is softening the hair and making it pull, if anything it's the cooling effect reducing the blood flow to the epidermal layer of the skin. (reducing the tenderness of the skin, and possibly giving a closer shave due to the hair follicle making the hair stand straighter, but I don't believe for an instant that "comfort" comes from a harder hair shaft.)

[M80]

2. Taking the "a soft hair (from hot water) leads to pulling of the roots" and a less comfortable shave to it's logical conclusion... If you want the hardest hair possible to shave, make sure you shave BEFORE you shower, do NOT wet your face, do NOT let the lather sit on the beard to soften them at all... In fact, simply applying a little bit of shaving oil immediately before running the razor over the face to lubricate the blade **SHOULD** give you the closest and most comfortable shave of your life. If you do want to use lather, you should either bowl or hand lather, apply the cold lather as quickly to the beard as possible and begin shaving your face *immediately*.

Do, that, and get back to us as to how smoothly and comfortably the razor blade passed over your whiskers thanks to them not being "soft and flopping over, having the razor drag along the length of the hair, causing undue pulling of the root."

Really, what you are aiming for is a "dry shave" with just enough lubrication/cushion to make the test "fair"

Now, can a cold shave give you a good shave, quite possibly... can it be better than a hot/warm shave, quite possibly, but it is NOT because a warm shave is softening the hair and making it pull, if anything it's the cooling effect reducing the blood flow to the epidermal layer of the skin. (reducing the tenderness of the skin, and possibly giving a closer shave due to the hair follicle making the hair stand straighter, but I don't believe for an instant that "comfort" comes from a harder hair shaft.)

I couldn't disagree with you more. Everything you posit is false.

[HoosierTrooper]

help me understand.. when folks are saying cold water are we talking the water from the cold side of the tap which is really closer to room temp or are you talking about cold water as in cooled in the frig or melted snow?

why do folks spend so much time trying to convert folks to their way of doing things? if cold/room temp/warm/hot floats your boat, it's your boat.

the AoM link was before indoor plumbing.. I suspect waiting on the wife to go pump water from the well and build a fire in the stove to get hot water wasn't really worth the wait.

For me it's tap water, and you're right about it being close to room temperature.

Speaking for myself only, I would never try to "convert" anyone to CWS. I think sharing observations, experience and challenging the "traditional" way of doing things is what this site is about.

[bad-bryce]

I have been using cold water for the past 4-5 months and I will never go back to warm water. Cold water feels great in the summer, and works even better in the winter.

Viva el agua fria!!!!

[royce22]

As a fairly new convert to CWS (3 shaves) I can say "for me" it works wonders. Shaving with hot water always gives me neck irritation, almost to the point of not being able to touch parts of my neck for hours afterwards. With CWS I get no irritation at all, although I still have a lot of work to do on my technique (only been DE shaving for around 2 months).

However I am starting to realise that the key thing with anything to do with shaving is that YMMV. I've been using Derbys for a couple of weeks now, but for me they just aren't working. So my sample pack is in transit as we speak. However there are people on here who swear by them. Once again YMMV.

So hot or cold it doesn't matter. Some prefer one, others prefer the other.
Either way happy shaving :biggrin1:

[jwcarlson]

I like to know how and why something is supposed to work before I try it. I find that tends to work best and saves pain.

Thankfully most of the great minds in history didn't think this way. :001_tt2:

Do what's best for you!


I think the whole "whisker hydration" stuff is over-rated personally. I splash water on and face lather. It works just fine. I think the biggest difference in hot and cold water is cold water's ability to mitigate irritation vs. hot water's ability to exacerbate it.

[ZJ68]

Thankfully most of the great minds in history didn't think this way. :001_tt2:
Yeah, they spent all their time fumbling around in the dark until they chanced on some discovery like a blind pig. They didn't care about knowing what they were doing or how things worked. :confused1

[OkieStubble]

I think first hand accounts of what works is important, and shouldn't be dismissed because the person reporting the observations can't explain it scientifically. If guys who've had problems with irritation using hot water find that using cold water eliminates the irritation then that should stand on it's own merits.

Someone would have to conduct a controlled scientific study to answer your questions, and I don't see anyone doing that. Has anyone shown scientifically, under controlled laboratory conditions and peer rated conclusions, that hot towels and hot water gives a superior shave?

I've pointed out my observation on my Van Dyke when I shower. In only a matter of seconds in the shower it is thoroughly soaked and "limp" for lack of a better word. Same when I swim. It doesn't take exraordinary measures to get some hydration into human hair.

I think HT makes an excellent point here. For instance, I have soaked my boar brush in both hot water and in cold water for about the same amount of time, and the bristles get hydrated and soft and can't seem to differentiate the differences in the temperature of the water.

[jwcarlson]

Yeah, they spent all their time fumbling around in the dark until they chanced on some discovery like a blind pig. They didn't care about knowing what they were doing or how things worked. :confused1


I'd venture to say the majority of inventions were born of relative "chance" vs. carefully analyzing what's thought to be true... That's not to say that the individuals were dumb or haphazard.

Thinking someone needs to prove that cold water shaving is better before you'd try it is laughable. You're not trying out a new-fangled nuclear warhead... you're shaving your face. Relax a little.

[ZJ68]

Thinking someone needs to prove that cold water shaving is better before you'd try it is laughable.
Good thing that's not what I said then, isn't it?

[Go West Young Man]

I like to know how and why something is supposed to work before I try it. I find that tends to work best and saves pain.

The problem is that no-one here is really talking about the same thing, so other's experiences don't really translate well into actionable items for you.

Everything about shaving changes so dramatically between people, it's impossible to control for all the variables:

Water temperature
Water hardness
Room temperature
Relative humidity
Pressure exerted on the blade
Strength of hairs
etc etc etc.....

Unless we both sat in the same room and had the same person shave us both with the same equipment, the fact that I get a good CWS has no relation to whether or not you will. All I can do is tell you that it works for me and let you try it for yourself.

[jwcarlson]

Good thing that's not what I said then, isn't it?


That's anecdotal evidence. How about actual information on water absorption by hair follicles and its effect on their strength and effort required to cut them? What, exactly, is the relationship between the temperature of the water used and the effect of the razor on the bristles and the skin? Information that allows us to determine how and why various techniques work.


Hum... perhaps you'd never try it at all since cold razors are creepy, but in the above post you're wanting "scientific" evidence on how cold water would affect hairs vs. hot water, etc etc. Did it take this much hard evidence to get you to switch from a cartridge to a DE? Persuming you haven't been a DE shaver your entire life, that is...

Are there some peer reviewed papers written by shaveologists that we're not privy to?

I'm starting to think you work for a water heater manufacturer. :001_rolle

[tvldatsi]

just had my first CWS. it's pretty much the same as every other shave, but felt better on my skin cause it's ~75 degrees today (that's hot in Boone in case you folks are confused)

[Seraphim]

Here's a little test you can try at home.



Put your head under hot water.


Did your hair get all wet and floppy? OK, that means that it is soaking wet, water has been absorbed.




Next time, do the same with cold water.

I can assure you, your hair will be every bit as wet and floppy as if you used hot water.

I see no real world "stiffening" of a hair shaft due to cold water, unless you then proceed to stick your head into the freezer for a while (your wife may think your little shaving hobby has now "gone too far" at that point....).

Perhaps the absorption rate is faster with warm/hot water, but wet is wet.

I think and real possible performance changes are from the water temperature effect on the skin, not on the whisker itself.


Next up:
Try putting your razor in the freezer overnight prior to a shave....

[jwcarlson]

Next up:
Try putting your razor in the freezer overnight prior to a shave....

"Honey, I need you to come dump warm water on my cheek. My razor is stuck."

[franz]

I see no real world "stiffening" of a hair shaft due to cold water

If anything, it shrinks. :blushing:



I think and real possible performance changes are from the water temperature effect on the skin, not on the whisker itself.


Bingo.

[kingfisher]

This is really pretty simple, folks, and it has a lot more to do with physiology than it does with physics.

It's like this: when you apply something hot to your skin, it turns red. That's because the heat causes inflammation and edema (fluid moves out of the tiny capillaries and into the soft tissues). This swelling of the skin makes the skin more friable, and makes it so that a smaller amount of the hair shaft is actually exposed above the surface of the skin. When the shave is over and the skin cools down, it retracts to its normal position. This may make it seem that the shave was not as close, because it reveals the bit of the hair that was beneath the surface of the skin when it was swollen, but now is above the surface of the skin.

When you use cold water the opposite is true; tissues shrink a little bit, exposing more hair. The skin becomes more tightly packed and less friable.

Thus, when you use hot water, your skin is more apt to become irritated and perhaps your shave will not be quite as close.

That said, cold water shaving is not for everybody. I use lukewarm water because I think cold water shaving is uncomfortable, but I think hot water shaving is ultimately slightly counterproductive.

[M80]

This swelling of the skin makes the skin more friable,

The skin becomes more tightly packed and less friable.

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

[bkfist]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Everything you posit is false.

What is false about my post? The original old article said that warm water softens the hair, and cold water makes it harder so it doesn't "lay down". I am stating that the original article made false claims for the reason that a cold water shave may be better than a warm one, and the claim that warm hair is floppier than cold hair is wrong. A fully water saturated hair, warm or cold, is going to be the same stiffness, warm water will saturate that hair quicker than cold, but full saturation will occur in 3 to 5 minutes, regardless.

The effects of cold water which might possibly lead to a closer and more comfortable shave are not due to the effects of the cold water on the hair, they are due to the effects of cold water on the surrounding skin. Hot water is going to cause a small amount of edema in the skin (swelling) which will "push out around" the hair shaft. Once the Shave is completed, and the edema in the skin goes away, you will have stubble. When shaving with cold water, the cold water will reduce any any edema present, close up the capillaries, and retract the skin from the hair shaft, allowing a closer shave. Once the skin returns to normal body temp (85 degrees or so?) the skin's blood flow will increase, causing the skin to swell back up slightly, making it feel like you got a closer shave than with hot water (which, in reality, you HAVE done.)

What I am refuting about the original article is the statement that the shave is more comfortable (once accustomed to the cold prep) simply because with warm water the hair is floppier and will lay over on itself.

[Seraphim]

Right!


I am off for a cold water shave right now.....for the sake of science!:thumbup1:

[franz]

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Friable? Nonsense. My skin is like a pastry. Ich bin ein Berliner and all that. :lol:

[oc_in_fw]

just had my first CWS. it's pretty much the same as every other shave, but felt better on my skin cause it's ~75 degrees today (that's hot in Boone in case you folks are confused)

Thanks, we in Texas were:lol:

[HoosierTrooper]

Thanks, we in Texas were:lol:

I've heard furnaces kick on down there if it drops to 75.

[Augustiner]

This is really pretty simple, folks, and it has a lot more to do with physiology than it does with physics.

It's like this: when you apply something hot to your skin, it turns red. That's because the heat causes inflammation and edema (fluid moves out of the tiny capillaries and into the soft tissues). This swelling of the skin makes the skin more friable, and makes it so that a smaller amount of the hair shaft is actually exposed above the surface of the skin. When the shave is over and the skin cools down, it retracts to its normal position. This may make it seem that the shave was not as close, because it reveals the bit of the hair that was beneath the surface of the skin when it was swollen, but now is above the surface of the skin.

When you use cold water the opposite is true; tissues shrink a little bit, exposing more hair. The skin becomes more tightly packed and less friable.

Thus, when you use hot water, your skin is more apt to become irritated and perhaps your shave will not be quite as close.

That said, cold water shaving is not for everybody. I use lukewarm water because I think cold water shaving is uncomfortable, but I think hot water shaving is ultimately slightly counterproductive.

I couldn't take it anymore.

I've been reading about cold shaving and how good it is constantly. I kept resisting it because I remember trying it once when I first started wet shaving and it was a disaster. Lot's of tugging and an overall terrible shave. The thing is is that alot of my shaves were like that back then because I was just getting a feel for everything. I figured I've got everything down pat now, so if it's really gonna work, it's gonna work.

I decided to give it the ultimate test. I just went up and shaved right now. I had just shaved only 6 hours ago! I have never shaved twice in a day even though my beard could probably use it. I figured if it prevented irritation while shaving that close together then it must be for real.

I kept things simple. Splashed cold water on my beard, soaking it thoroughly. I applied Shave Secret like I always do. I filled up the sink with cold water, soaked my brush in the cold water and then lathered up VDH Deluxe with the cold water. I built a great lather on my face as usual and I must say the cold lather was a bit weird at first. I executed a quick 2 pass shave, WTG + ATG with light pressure.

The shave was unbelievable! I was expecting a lot of resistance to the razor like I remembered. It didn't happen at all. The Sledgehammer Slant just sailed through my beard like it always does. I could tell the whiskers were standing up straighter because I could feel and hear the blade "popping" each individual whisker off my face. It was a pleasant sensation. It felt like this is what the razor is supposed to do during a shave. I was also fully expecting some nicks and pain since it was so soon. I got zero of either. I just rinsed off the excess lather with cold water, patted dry, put on some Nivea Sensitive ASB and then splashed on some Old Spice Fresh aftershave. I had absolutely ZERO sting from the aftershave and I mean nothing at all. It just felt like I was splashing some fluid like water on my face. I have had good shaves but have never experienced such a complete lack of any irritation... I'm consistenly close but not like I hadn't even shaved at all.

My face feels smoothe and refreshed right now. I'm gonna keep trying this, but I can tell that was no fluke. It just felt right. I have a feeling I'm gonna become a regular. If you haven't tried this yet you should. I was highly skeptical and I was just shut up.

I normally wouldn't write such glowing words after just one trial of something but it really did seem like there was something to it. I have a strong feeling it will turn out to work consistently for my daily shaves.

BTW, I quoted the above post because I read it and agreed with the explanation of why cold shaving would work. It even seems reasonable that it could yield closer shaves due to shrinking of tissue. Vasodilation definitely occurs with warm water. It all has to do with the effect on the skin, however, there may be some effect attributible to the hair itself. The hair is more "stiff" since it stands up straighter because the erector pili in the skin contract. Also, many say cold water closes hair cuticles and smoothes the hair shaft. You can look this up and see that this is a property that people exploit to get shinier hair. Whether it really closes cuticles is controversial but it seems to be a pretty deeply ingrained theory.

[HoosierTrooper]

Reports of such great results using CWS from veterans like Augustiner make Mr. Freeze's day. What a great post!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/farrarfan1/mr-freeze.jpg

[Augustiner]

Reports of such great results using CWS from veterans like Augustiner make Mr. Freeze's day. What a great post!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/farrarfan1/mr-freeze.jpg

Hahaha, haven't seen Mr. Freeze in a while. Good to see he's doing well!

[kingfisher]

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Well, in medicine we use the word to mean prone to erosion and bleeding. Even so it's probably not precisely what I was trying to say; I hope you got the idea behind the post despite my imprecise use of vocabulary.

[Seraphim]

Well, in medicine we use the word to mean prone to erosion and bleeding. Even so it's probably not precisely what I was trying to say; I hope you got the idea behind the post despite my imprecise use of vocabulary.

The phrase "...I don't think it means what you think it means...." is a reference to The Princess Bride well known quote.

:001_smile

[hellahella]

I tried cold water shaving this morning and I cant say I am totally changed yet. I used a new crystal blade (not my favorite but its in the sample pack that I bought). I dialed up my Gillette Super Adjustable to a 7 for a WTG pass, then an ATG pass and finally I dialed up to a 9 for the final ATG and touchups. I normally shave between a 5 and 7 but I wanted to make sure the blade got a good cut at the hair. I am so far happy with the shave but I want to try it with other blades before I can be 100% converted.

[cryhavoc]

IT'S ALIVE! :lol:

[Tonka]

Just want to wade in with my 2c worth, I have been alternating between hot and cold shaves for a couple of months now. What I have found is that each bit varies, for example, hot water softens my brush quicker and makes it softer than cold. A cold razor feels coarse and pulls. Cold water presents the hairs better but makes them harder to cut, meaning lightly haired areas shave closer with cold water, heavily stubbled areas are problematic with cold. My MWF lathers better with warm, but I have v hard water and heating water reduces the hardness of the water.
I think this may explain why people find such varying results, it depends on what YOUR limiting/ critical factor is during shaving.
so light or soft stubble? Try cold water
thick or coarse stubble? Try warm water
poor lather, hard water your issue? Warm water.
truly YMMV....

[rajagra]

Worth noting that the summary of reasons for CWS in that article (Saves time. / Allows you to shave when hot water isn’t available. / a stiff beard is easier to cut. / Hot water tends to dry out skin.) might also be used to justify dry shaving.
Just sayin'. I enjoy a CWS when the weather's warm.

[Nick Danger]

The effects of cold water which might possibly lead to a closer and more comfortable shave are not due to the effects of the cold water on the hair, they are due to the effects of cold water on the surrounding skin. Hot water is going to cause a small amount of edema in the skin (swelling) which will "push out around" the hair shaft. Once the Shave is completed, and the edema in the skin goes away, you will have stubble. When shaving with cold water, the cold water will reduce any any edema present, close up the capillaries, and retract the skin from the hair shaft, allowing a closer shave.

Here is my own anecdotal evidence to support this point:

On Saturday, I decided to do the ultimate pre-shave softening of my whiskers. I went to my gym and spent time in the steam room. My whiskers were as softened and saturated as they have every been. Then I came right home (a one block walk in warm, humid weather) to wash my face in more warm water and shave.

The result: stubble. As soon as the swelling in my face from the steam / warm water went down, the area above my upper lip and elsewhere showed noticeable 5 O'Clock Shadow. I was very disappointed in this shave.

Today, with the same 36 hour growth, I did my version of a CWS: I showered, but lowered the water temperature to tepid when I washed and rinsed my face. I soaked the brush and lathered with tepid water. Then I filled the sink with water that was as cold as I could get it from the tap, splashed my face, lathered up, and shaved. I rinsed again with the cool water between each pass. The result: virtually no visible stubble.

Less face swelling because of the cooler water definitely results in a closer shave for me. The tepid water used for face washing is more than enough to saturate and soften my whiskers. Warmer water just makes my face puffy and results in a poorer quality shave.

Nick

[BallisticBurrito]

I tried cold water shaves a couple of times...was horrible each and every time.

[ElliotR]

Tried the CWS on a whim today - was pretty shocked at how smooth the shave was. I was using a 3 day old Voskhod blade
double shimmed in a 70's Aluminum Tech to be more aggressive.

Kiss mY Face Lime (doesn't lather well in cold!) augmented by KMF fragrance free from a tube (lathered better!!!)

Summary - really nice - irritation free shave on my face - not AS great on my neck-a bit stubbly. Because I was running really late i pulled out a disposable i had lying around (cheapo CVS brand) and did ATG on my neck with it.
Expected to slice myself open...but when I looked - it was a totally irritation-free ATG pass up the neck -wow!

I splashed my usual Aloe+Witch Hazel on my face and following with Nivea balm for sensitive skin
-really just by habit. They felt totally UN-necessary.

Which leads me to this question- are there any cold shavers out there who alter their post shave routine?

[gus1942]

I've been an out spoken advocate of CWS for a long time. We have many excellent threads on the subject. To each his own, but more important than temperature is good hydration of the hair shaft. I always get BBS with face lathering and cold water.

Gus/BOTOC/Arkolyte/Slants

[sychodelix]

I've only cold water shaved twice. The first time was really nice. The second one was awful. No idea why.

[lindyhop66]

I switched to cold water or iced water only shaving in March after 2 months of irritation with warm or hot water shaving. I feel I get a better, closer shave without any irritation or razor burn. Works with DE's, SE's and straights for me.

[Deltaboy]

I was in hurry and needed to shave after work so I try a cold water shave and got a good shave that was noisy but smooth.

Cold water slash, Noxema undercoat, CO Bigelow and Palmlovie Shave Cream uber lather using a 105 Ever-Ready Brush, Gem SE Blade and Gem Twist open closed comb Razor.