Yet another reason not to buy a Toyota

[s1mp13m4n]

It is sad but it seems like Toyota rather than fixing the problem would rather install black boxes to monitor us. Why can they not fix their cars? Are people still going to go out and actually buy a Toyota, seriously, after all of this? I think I will stick with my 16 year old 170000 mile Ford. LOL :)
Toyota Black Box (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/toyota-black-box-2010-02-22)

[82R100]

As things stand, they already have some data recording capability. Considering the risks of litigation, I'm afraid they need to do what they can to protect themselves.

Honestly, Toyota's not the only one out there with black boxes and you can bet the rest of the industry's watching the whole thing unfold with great interest.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with sticking with a proven favorite. :smile:

- Chris

[Telecaster52]

WOO! Top Gear!!! I'd love to hear Clarkson's opinion on the subject :lol:

just curious... 170k '94 ford... Taurus or Ranger?

[brianw]

You think Toyota is the only one? who knows your car may have it as well.... Read these two articles

http://www.slate.com/id/2087207/
or
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/internetprivacy/2004-12-27-auto-blackbox_x.htm

[Jim]

It is sad but it seems like Toyota rather than fixing the problem would rather install black boxes to monitor us. Why can they not fix their cars? Are people still going to go out and actually buy a Toyota, seriously, after all of this? I think I will stick with my 16 year old 170000 mile Ford. LOL :)
Toyota Black Box (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/toyota-black-box-2010-02-22)


Are you kidding?
Remember the FORD Pinto?:lol:

[Obsessed]

Are you kidding?
Remember the FORD Pinto?:lol:

never heard of it . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0J0rcJTLo

[Prince]

never heard of it . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT0J0rcJTLo

Classic. :lol:

[s1mp13m4n]

WOO! Top Gear!!! I'd love to hear Clarkson's opinion on the subject :lol:

just curious... 170k '94 ford... Taurus or Ranger?

It is a 1994 Ford Escort wagon. My dad has a company car which is a 1998 Taurus that has 320000 miles on it and runs perfect. I have been around Ford vehicles all my life and I know that if you take care of any vehicle it will last a long time. All that hype about a Honda or Toyota being better than a Ford/Chevy is pure garbage. :) That little Escort just keeps on going, yeah it is slow with only 88BHP but it gets 32MPG and is paid for. LOL :)

[Telecaster52]

All joking aside, the pinto's in my top 5 for my CAD (with an aftermarket fuel tank of course!)

[funkyb]

You may want to take a look at this: Click Here (http://overlawyered.com/2010/03/toyota-acceleration-why-im-skeptical/)

A little reported fact about the braking problem with Toyota's is the ages of the drivers who have had problems. FTA:

The median age is 60.5; the majority of drivers are 60 or older; a third are older than 70. And I left out the case of a driver who was the son of a 94-year-old victim rather than guesstimate his age to be 65. That looks suspiciously like the makeup of Audi sudden acceleration cases, and a lot like driver error to me. Color me skeptical. Very very skeptical.

I'm not saying they don't have any problems to fix, but it's interesting that both Toyota and the NTSB have been unable to reproduce any control system failures after repeated attempts to do so. People are quick to assume it's a big company trying to protect their big profits, but there may be at least some component of operator error at play here...

[Telecaster52]

It is a 1994 Ford Escort wagon. My dad has a company car which is a 1998 Taurus that has 320000 miles on it and runs perfect. I have been around Ford vehicles all my life and I know that if you take care of any vehicle it will last a long time. All that hype about a Honda or Toyota being better than a Ford/Chevy is pure garbage. :) That little Escort just keeps on going, yeah it is slow with only 88BHP but it gets 32MPG and is paid for. LOL :)


AH, the escort! FWIW i completely forgot it in my question lolz. My family's had at least a dozen of them (mainly GT's :thumbup1:)

I've got a '96 taurus with ~180k and running strong.:thumbup:

[Obsessed]

I'm not saying they don't have any problems to fix, but it's interesting that both Toyota and the NTSB have been unable to reproduce any control system failures after repeated attempts to do so.

I know that's the case with one recent incident involving a Prius, but I'm not sure it's true in general.

Also, and call me cynical, I'm not sure I trust the accuracy and impartiality of "overlawyered.com". I can almost hear the axe being ground from here. :001_rolle

[funkyb]

I know that's the case with one recent incident involving a Prius, but I'm not sure it's true in general.

Also, and call me cynical, I'm not sure I trust the accuracy and impartiality of "overlawyered.com". I can almost hear the axe being ground from here. :001_rolle

The ages can be verified if you're concerned they made that part up...(spreadsheet here (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tlc86dwACUOWtmOEdzLPifA&output=html)).

The post from overlawyered is just the first one that turned up when I google-fu'd to find an article discussing ages for my earlier post. Funny thing is it was one of the lawyers at my company who originally mentioned this factor :-)

There are a lot of other sites discussing this, Just to google a few...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10074/1043035-185.stm
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/03/how-real-are-the-defects-in-toyotas-cars/37448/
http://www.businessinsider.com/a-deep-dive-into-toyota-sudden-acceleration-accident-stats-2010-3
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-the-missing-variable-edition/

If age were not a factor, you'd expect this to more closely match the weighted age distribution of toyota drivers (~70% of all Toyota's are sold to the 30-55 year old age group):

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/age-distribution-of-drivers-in-56-toyota-acceleration-deaths-data-from-jalopnik-and-overlawyered_100308408_l.jpg

[Obsessed]

I really wasn't concerned with the age part. My main point was that I was under the impression that the inability to recreate the accelerator problem only related to the recent Prius accident. I don't claim to know that for sure, however.

[Uncle Erik]

Most manufacturers have "black boxes" these days. As for Toyota's quality, I think it speaks for itself. Check Consumer Reports for compilations of non-anecdotal data.

I have an '07 Toyota with 55k miles and zero problems. I'm not concerned about the purported acceleration problems - it's a stick and not terribly difficult to disengage the engine. I will have it paid off in a couple of months and plan to keep it for the long haul.

Fords are alright and I keep an old Mercury Comet around (my first car). The trouble with new Fords is that their transmissions can be dodgy. I'd buy a manual Focus, Fusion or Mustang, but nothing with a slushbox. Shame, because the old C4 and C6 transmissions were some of the best.

[Telecaster52]

I think the main issue isn't the accelerator problem, it's the lack of emergency driving knowledge and training. Having driven older cars without power-assisted brakes/steering it's not to hard to control the vehicle without, especially at highway speeds. If you have time to call 911 on your cellphone, you have time to put the vehicle in neutral and or turn off the ignition, with ample time/space to slow before a collision.

[bradyarz]

i think the main issue isn't the accelerator problem, it's the lack of emergency driving knowledge and training. Having driven older cars without power-assisted brakes/steering it's not to hard to control the vehicle without, especially at highway speeds. if you have time to call 911 on your cellphone, you have time to put the vehicle in neutral and or turn off the ignition, with ample time/space to slow before a collision.

+1

[airplanedoc]

The only reason this is even news is because its Toyota, if this was a GM, Ford, or Chrysler recall, it would have not even made the front page.

FYI your cars already have a black box that records everyting.

[Telecaster52]

Apparently when the throttle gets stuck the Prius only makes 17mpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk&feature=related

[DapperJames]

It is sad but it seems like Toyota rather than fixing the problem would rather install black boxes to monitor us. Why can they not fix their cars? Are people still going to go out and actually buy a Toyota, seriously, after all of this? I think I will stick with my 16 year old 170000 mile Ford. LOL :)
Toyota Black Box (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/toyota-black-box-2010-02-22)

If I had to buy a new Toyota or a new Ford, I'd buy the Toyota. American build quality is subpar.

[brianw]

Ditto that... I have a 2006 Prius and my wife has a 2005 Prius... over 50,000 on mine ave 48 mpg and not any problems... by the way you can turn them off by holding the button down for 3 seconds

[Telecaster52]

If I had to buy a new Toyota or a new Ford, I'd buy the Toyota. American build quality is subpar.

I wouldn't buy a new car AT ALL because of the current build quality issues from every marque, domestic or import

[funkyb]

Not to mention the build quality of American cars has improved dramatically over the last decade; they just have yet to shake the bad reputation.

[warlandsboy]

Toyota > Ford.

[Mojo88]

With respect to American cars not lasting, we have a 97 Grand Cherokee with 234,000 miles on it. It still has the original transmission, engine and the 4 wheel drive still works. When it goes we will be in the market for another Jeep.

[s1mp13m4n]

LOL on the Top Gear Prius bad gas mileage video. I love Top Gear. You did see the Prius test on JC's DVD The Good, Bad and the ugly.....right? I understand the viewpoint about American cars being rubbish, however I do have to disagree. I could care less about reviews from Consumer Reports for example....the real world is what matters to me. As far as biuld quality...my dad's work provided Ford Taurus speaks for itself. My dad still has his 1961 Ford Galaxie that he bought in 1976 and my uncle still has his fathers 1966 Chevy truck and his Grand Fathers Model A Ford. I still have my 1994 Ford Escort and it is still going strong, so I have to disagree with the train of thought that American cars are rubbish. :) For my money (if I could afford it) for value/bang for the buck in a car it is hard to beat the Ford 500/new Taurus. I mean in the SE trim, dad paid $20k for his 500 and it is a larger car than the Crown Vic and gets nearly 30MPG highway....that is not bad for that large of car. Yes there are better cars out there but not many that offer that level of value for the money. :) It is fun that we can all somewhat disagree but still keep it fun. :) This is a great forum....thanks folks.

[s1mp13m4n]

I just thought I would share this just in case you have not seen it about the Prius. It is funny because it is Jeremy Clarkson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOvp69lnZbA

[thunderball]

As somebody mentioned above I have to think that if this was about an American auto maker the media wouldn't be quite so on top of the saga. I'm not saying that something isn't wrong with Toyota but you've got to admit, the more 'Never Buy Toyota - They'll Kill Ya!' headlines are in the papers and in the news the better it is for US automakers.

I have owned many cars (both Japanese and American) and drive a variety of new rentals every year. Now, as then, American build quality and styling aren't up to Japanese standards in my opinion. (Unless of course you're talking about the 1960s, then I'd easily take the American steel!) :thumbup1:

[Silverstar]

I find it very interesting that Toyota is that popular in the states, or am I wrong? Here in Europe, German (European) cars are by far the most popular ones (at least in Switzerland). And the latest development of Toyota gives me pause for thought.

[Storer50]

I find it very interesting that Toyota is that popular in the states, or am I wrong? Here in Europe, German (European) cars are by far the most popular ones (at least in Switzerland). And the latest development of Toyota gives me pause for thought.

What iis the tariff or import cost on a German car in Switzerland

[Stubblefield]

I find it very interesting that Toyota is that popular in the states, or am I wrong? Here in Europe, German (European) cars are by far the most popular ones (at least in Switzerland). And the latest development of Toyota gives me pause for thought.Toyota, Honda and many other Japanese/Korean imports are very popular. European makes, not so much, unless you live in an urban area.

I have had excellent results with European makes, BTW. Next car will probably be a VW Diesel (the most popular diesel in the EU).

[mmack66]

I find it very interesting that Toyota is that popular in the states, or am I wrong? Here in Europe, German (European) cars are by far the most popular ones (at least in Switzerland). And the latest development of Toyota gives me pause for thought.

If you knew the history of the American automobile industry, the fact that Japanese cars are popular here probably wouldn't be so surprising. German and Korean cars are pretty popular here as well.

[thunderball]

I just thought I would share this just in case you have not seen it about the Prius. It is funny because it is Jeremy Clarkson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOvp69lnZbA

Ha! That was hilarious....:thumbup:

[LexusAussie]

This whole thing is a crock. It only impacts US vehicles. Sounds like you guys need to work out which is the accelerator and the brake pedal.

This smacks of the same BS that impacted Audi in the 80's!

[kg4ghn]

I still love my 02 Tacoma with 160000 miles. I bought it with 145000 miles and didn't think twice about it.

My fiance drives a 08 Yaris, problem free. Granted it is not one of the cars on "the list."

I would not hesitate to buy another Toyota.

That being said, my last two trucks were F150s, both with right at 200000 miles and no major problems. I do like Fords too.

[82R100]

This whole thing is a crock. It only impacts US vehicles. Sounds like you guys need to work out which is the accelerator and the brake pedal.

This smacks of the same BS that impacted Audi in the 80's!

While there certainly are/will be wrong pedal accidents in all this, there's definitely something else at work as well. U.S. market Toyotas use parts from different suppliers.

Nothing is simple.

- Chris

[tg16]

I have a 2004 Rav 4 and although I would consider a Ford truck, I would not get a GM after having owned one.

Does anyone remember the Ford SUV problem a few years ago?

[DapperJames]

I wouldn't buy a new car AT ALL because of the current build quality issues from every marque, domestic or import

I think thats a very obtuse statement.


Not to mention the build quality of American cars has improved dramatically over the last decade; they just have yet to shake the bad reputation.

It may have improved but thats still not saying much.

Take Corvettes for instance, which I love. You've got a great car with some awesome performance which varies from model to model.

The coupe w/ 430hp starts at a price of $49,000.

The Z06 w/ 505hp starts at $75,000.

Then theres the new ZR1 w/ 638hp that starts at $107,000 and destroys any exotic car company competition in performance and value.

Whats wrong with this picture is you've got 3 models of the same car varying in price by almost $30,000 dollars between them. Obviously youre paying for the engine and performance which is fine. Whats not fine is that all 3 cars have the same exact interior. Crappy leather seats w/ that lovely junky plastic interior, and its chintzy plastic at that. To me that itself sums up "American build quality".


With respect to American cars not lasting, we have a 97 Grand Cherokee with 234,000 miles on it. It still has the original transmission, engine and the 4 wheel drive still works. When it goes we will be in the market for another Jeep.

My moms on her 2nd Jeep Cherokee, first was a 1994 bought new and went until last year. 2nd is a used which has ran perfectly so far. Great cars w/ a solid engine. Shame that they killed the Cherokee. Probably because they did run forever.


The only reason this is even news is because its Toyota, if this was a GM, Ford, or Chrysler recall, it would have not even made the front page.

FYI your cars already have a black box that records everyting.

You can thank GM (government motors) for that. If they put the fear of imports into us, we'll buy more American.

[Jim]

When comparing any vehicle there is always going to be personal biases that will influence the bottom line. Statements like I have 237,000 miles and going strong is specious at best. By pouring money into a vehicle you can literally keep it going for ever.

I have owned about 20 motor vehicles over the last 35 some odd years, some for work and most for personal use. My family was a GM family until we got a Toyota.

I have a 2000 Land cruiser with 175000 miles. Maintenance = Brakes -oil- wiper blades and tail light bulbs. Thats it in 10 years of hard use.

My lovely bride has a Chevy Malibu that her employer gave her, I have had to come rescue her on more than one occasion. 30,000 miles and they have replaced, brakes,front tires, 2 starters, alternator, a windshield, power steering leak, window stuck,headlight, defroster not working. The list is endless.

Is this a Lemon? Not from my observation.

Oh My bride had just sold her 1993 Camry- total maintenance/repair bill for 17 years. $2374.00.

[theperfectstorm]

I retired my old convertible Celica this week and am going to buy a shiny new Toyota this weekend.

Even if there is a problem, I have about 1000% more faith in Toyota to fix it and make it right than I have in any American company.

[Thebigspendur]

I agree this all smacks of the Audi situation. Back then people swore up and down that the car was accelerating by itself and they had their foot jammed down on the brake. They could never duplicate the problem in tests and sales of Audi all but stopped. Eventually they found instances where people had jammed the "brake" on so hard they actually bent the mechanism only when they examined the brake pedel it wasn't the brake that was bent it was the accelerator. In the end these people were hitting the gas not the brake though they thought they were hitting the brake. After that they mandated a system we have now where you can't shift out of park unless your foot is on the brake.

[Blondie]

If I had to buy a new Toyota or a new Ford, I'd buy the Toyota. American build quality is subpar.

Many of the Toyota's are built here in the USA, by Americans,as are many foreign cars.


As somebody mentioned above I have to think that if this was about an American auto maker the media wouldn't be quite so on top of the saga. I'm not saying that something isn't wrong with Toyota but you've got to admit, the more 'Never Buy Toyota - They'll Kill Ya!' headlines are in the papers and in the news the better it is for US automakers.

I have owned many cars (both Japanese and American) and drive a variety of new rentals every year. Now, as then, American build quality and styling aren't up to Japanese standards in my opinion. (Unless of course you're talking about the 1960s, then I'd easily take the American steel!) :thumbup1:

Design and styling of Japanese cars for the American Market is often outsourced to American design firms. I know Honda does this.


I retired my old convertible Celica this week and am going to buy a shiny new Toyota this weekend.

Even if there is a problem, I have about 1000% more faith in Toyota to fix it and make it right than I have in any American company.

2008 Camry with a radio problem, their solution is to replace a brand new component with a refurb. Oh, and don't get me started on the Toyota navigation system. Worst software interface ever. And hey, you thought to put a sensor in the passenger seat for the airbag, how bout one for the Nav, so a passenger can operate it.

I am not one way or the other, American or Japanese, but every manufacturer has their problems, including Mercedes, BMW, and the more expensive brands.

[DS/B MCS]

I'm very pleased with Toyota products. My wife and I have put almost 500k total miles on three Toyota vehicles (1996 Tacoma, 1999 4Runner and current 2006 4Runner) with very minor issues. My Tacoma had a recall (head gasket) that was handled quickly by Toyota. I've not purchased a vehicle from the Big Three since the late 80's and don't plan to ever purchase one again. Yes, I know the quality of Chevy's has improved since the 80's, but I'd walk or ride a bike before driving another one :lol:

[funkyb]

Crappy leather seats w/ that lovely junky plastic interior, and its chintzy plastic at that. To me that itself sums up "American build quality".[/B]



It's one thing to not like the leather seats, and another thing to say the car will have you in the shop at only a few years old and will poop out in far fewer miles than non-USA competitors. It's lifetime and repair frequency that I'm referring to when I use the phrase 'build quality'.

[michael.scheller]

If age were not a factor, you'd expect this to more closely match the weighted age distribution of toyota drivers (~70% of all Toyota's are sold to the 30-55 year old age group):

If this graphed out unintended acceleration vs. age of driver instead of deaths vs. age of driver then I'd agree. The difference is that two drivers involved in the same accident, one age 19 and another age 79, the 79 year has to be more likely to die as a result.

FWIW OBD II chips are readily available and cheap as a way to monitor your teenage driver.

95296

http://www.amazon.com/Autovision-TSDM-001-Safe-Driving-Monitor/dp/B002JRBVGE

[jazzman]

How does an experienced driver mistake the gas pedal for the brake pedal? It's well-documented, but I still don't get it. Will it happen to me when I reach a certain age?:lol:

[DapperJames]

Many of the Toyota's are built here in the USA, by Americans,as are many foreign cars.

Very true, youre correct. However the cars are still built in a Toyota factory, to Toyota specs using Toyota parts and Toyota standards.

If you took Fords or Chevys and had them built in Japan using all Ford/Chevy specs & standards youd have the same subpar car.

Basically all this Toyota hate is bs. ALL car companies make duds and have mechanical issues with some model at some point in time.

[Telecaster52]

ALL car companies make duds and have mechanical issues with some model at some point in time.

sounds like a good end of discussion to me! :thumbup:

[SliceOfLife]

I thought all american cars were built in mexico now anyway.


I think it's natural that deaths due to this problem will lean towards older people. They react slower and die easier. I certainly don't think that means it's a user error issue.

Toyota has screwed the pooch a half dozen times in this scenario, but let's face it. They're too big to fail. If they do, our government will bail them out with our money. :thumbup:


:blink:

:glare:

[funkyb]

If this graphed out unintended acceleration vs. age of driver instead of deaths vs. age of driver then I'd agree. The difference is that two drivers involved in the same accident, one age 19 and another age 79, the 79 year has to be more likely to die as a result.

FWIW OBD II chips are readily available and cheap as a way to monitor your teenage driver.




I think it's natural that deaths due to this problem will lean towards older people. They react slower and die easier. I certainly don't think that means it's a user error issue.


I'm not sure you're reading the graph correctly, the orange bars are what is important and represent all reported cases of unintended acceleration, not just deaths. The black line is what represents deaths, but that is not the portion of the graph I was making conclusions on, and interestingly, it shows the exact opposite of the assertion that older drivers should be more likely to die in similar accidents as compared to younger drivers.

[mretzloff]

Personally I still trust Toyota. Yes, they have pretty much screwed their customers over, but then again, American automakers have been doing this forever. In my humble opinion, I think this is being blown out of proportion because US automakers are hurting.

[faster_than_u]

Have you guys heard about the toyota recall for the frame rails rusting off resulting in the gas tank falling out and the spare tire falling out. Are you also aware that toyota has know about the gas pedal problem since 2007 and done nothing. Also about them trying to cover up the sludge problem in recent cars. How about the steering issues recently maybe the brakes too. These sound like huge problems. And they still keep saying that they are the most reliable auto make I dont know about you guys but that doesnt sound like it to me.

My boss' new tundra gets 15 mpg max highway, my f150? 27 highway. His makes all kinds of squeaking, clunking, very loud inside the cab, the paint is a nice dusting on the metal the car wash brush rubs it off. My f150 Makes no noise at all, no squeaks, bangs, or clunks. Its very quiet inside. The paint? not a problem. In my mine our 1973 f150 is way better quality then a 2010 tundra. Perhaps you need to research toyota a little more then you will see the true toyota.

[faster_than_u]

I thought all american cars were built in mexico now anyway.




Not sure about gm and dodge But all the new fords have a sticker in the front window of the build plant. The focus/fiesta will most likely be in mexico

[brianw]

2008 Camry with a radio problem, their solution is to replace a brand new component with a refurb.

and how does this differ from any other manufacturer. Buy a new Dell computer... have problems.. they send you a refurb

[mmack66]

Have you guys heard about the toyota recall for the frame rails rusting off resulting in the gas tank falling out and the spare tire falling out. Are you also aware that toyota has know about the gas pedal problem since 2007 and done nothing. Also about them trying to cover up the sludge problem in recent cars. How about the steering issues recently maybe the brakes too. These sound like huge problems. And they still keep saying that they are the most reliable auto make I dont know about you guys but that doesnt sound like it to me.

My boss' new tundra gets 15 mpg max highway, my f150? 27 highway. His makes all kinds of squeaking, clunking, very loud inside the cab, the paint is a nice dusting on the metal the car wash brush rubs it off. My f150 Makes no noise at all, no squeaks, bangs, or clunks. Its very quiet inside. The paint? not a problem. In my mine our 1973 f150 is way better quality then a 2010 tundra. Perhaps you need to research toyota a little more then you will see the true toyota.

I take it you are a Ford man?

[funkyb]

and how does this differ from any other manufacturer. Buy a new Dell computer... have problems.. they send you a refurb

This is also exactly how most insurance companies will handle a replacement. You see, while you feel that radio is brand new, the moment you signed the contract and took the keys, you became the owner of a used radio in a used vehicle.

The goal of factory repairs and insurance plans is to put you back into the position you were in before a loss or breakdown, and before it broke, it was used.

[DapperJames]

Have you guys heard about the toyota recall for the frame rails rusting off resulting in the gas tank falling out and the spare tire falling out. Are you also aware that toyota has know about the gas pedal problem since 2007 and done nothing. Also about them trying to cover up the sludge problem in recent cars. How about the steering issues recently maybe the brakes too. These sound like huge problems. And they still keep saying that they are the most reliable auto make I dont know about you guys but that doesnt sound like it to me.

My boss' new tundra gets 15 mpg max highway, my f150? 27 highway. His makes all kinds of squeaking, clunking, very loud inside the cab, the paint is a nice dusting on the metal the car wash brush rubs it off. My f150 Makes no noise at all, no squeaks, bangs, or clunks. Its very quiet inside. The paint? not a problem. In my mine our 1973 f150 is way better quality then a 2010 tundra. Perhaps you need to research toyota a little more then you will see the true toyota.

Hello everyone, may I introduce Alan Mulally. President and Chief Executive Officer of Ford Motor Company.

[LexusAussie]

While there certainly are/will be wrong pedal accidents in all this, there's definitely something else at work as well. U.S. market Toyotas use parts from different suppliers.

Nothing is simple.

- Chris

All Toyota's use parts from different suppliers worldwide however they are built to the same specs. Despite widespread belief, the US isn't "special" (in some ways it is but not good ones :001_smile)

Strange how this is happening only in the US. Any incidents in Canada? Not that I can find.

Given the usual US propensity to initiate legal action for no real reason you will have to forgive the rest of the world if we are cynical.

[SliceOfLife]

I'm not sure you're reading the graph correctly, the orange bars are what is important and represent all reported cases of unintended acceleration, not just deaths. The black line is what represents deaths, but that is not the portion of the graph I was making conclusions on, and interestingly, it shows the exact opposite of the assertion that older drivers should be more likely to die in similar accidents as compared to younger drivers.



You're disregarding the fact that the line graph for deaths includes deaths where the acceleration issue didn't occur, making it meaningless.

[82R100]

All Toyota's use parts from different suppliers worldwide however they are built to the same specs. Despite widespread belief, the US isn't "special" (in some ways it is but not good ones :001_smile)

Strange how this is happening only in the US. Any incidents in Canada? Not that I can find.

Yes, according to this (http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2010/03/canada_launches_probe_into_toy.html), 17 reported. Bear in mind, of course, that Toyota sells about 11 vehicles in the U.S. for every one that it sells in Canada.

With respect to the general acceleration issue, Toyota has recalled vehicles worldwide.

- Chris

[funkyb]

You're disregarding the fact that the line graph for deaths includes deaths where the acceleration issue didn't occur, making it meaningless.

Not sure I understand where the disregardation is, I'm not drawing conclusions on the black line. The comment I had on the deaths line was only in to clarify the orange bars do not represent deaths, as there seemed to be some confusion.

[thunderball]

Personally I still trust Toyota. Yes, they have pretty much screwed their customers over, but then again, American automakers have been doing this forever. In my humble opinion, I think this is being blown out of proportion because US automakers are hurting.

+1 Yep.

[Stubblefield]

Design and styling of Japanese cars for the American Market is often outsourced to American design firms. I know Honda does this.
As does Nissan as well.



My boss' new tundra gets 15 mpg max highway, my f150? 27 highway. His makes all kinds of squeaking, clunking, very loud inside the cab, the paint is a nice dusting on the metal the car wash brush rubs it off. My f150 Makes no noise at all, no squeaks, bangs, or clunks. Its very quiet inside. The paint? not a problem. In my mine our 1973 f150 is way better quality then a 2010 tundra. Honestly, Ford trucks are rock solid. I'm really tempted to drop my import and pick one up, because the build quality is so good. If you want a drive and forget vehicle, the F150 is it.

Tho I'm guessing you have a 6 in your 150, given your MPG.

[faster_than_u]

As does Nissan as well.

Honestly, Ford trucks are rock solid. I'm really tempted to drop my import and pick one up, because the build quality is so good. If you want a drive and forget vehicle, the F150 is it.

Tho I'm guessing you have a 6 in your 150, given your MPG.

Ford does not offer a v6. 4.6 2V v8 4 spd, 4.6 3V v8 6spd, and 5.4 3V v8 6 spd. One thing you need to remember is that in Canada we use imperial gallons not us gallons. My f150 is light years ahead of the most expensive tundra (mine is only a xlt btw). Quiet steel ftw.

Its all in the recalls there are 0 for 09-10 f150's and 0910 tunda's well we wont go there.

[mmack66]

Ford does not offer a v6. 4.6 2V v8 4 spd, 4.6 3V v8 6spd, and 5.4 3V v8 6 spd. One thing you need to remember is that in Canada we use imperial gallons not us gallons. My f150 is light years ahead of the most expensive tundra (mine is only a xlt btw). Quiet steel ftw.

Its all in the recalls there are 0 for 09-10 f150's and 0910 tunda's well we wont go there.

I can understand your loyalty to Ford but seriously, don't get carried away with some ridiculous comparison. Ford has had their fair share of recalls.

[LexusAussie]

Yes, according to this (http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2010/03/canada_launches_probe_into_toy.html), 17 reported. Bear in mind, of course, that Toyota sells about 11 vehicles in the U.S. for every one that it sells in Canada.

With respect to the general acceleration issue, Toyota has recalled vehicles worldwide.

- Chris
With all due respect, recalling vehicles isn't the same thing as reporting issues.

There haven't been any incidents reported outside of North America that I can find.

This still smells like a stitch up.

[DapperJames]

Ford does not offer a v6. 4.6 2V v8 4 spd, 4.6 3V v8 6spd, and 5.4 3V v8 6 spd. One thing you need to remember is that in Canada we use imperial gallons not us gallons. My f150 is light years ahead of the most expensive tundra (mine is only a xlt btw). Quiet steel ftw.

Its all in the recalls there are 0 for 09-10 f150's and 0910 tunda's well we wont go there.

Thought you may be interested in this. These selections are from the 2010 J.D. Power and Associates annual vehicle dependability study. Which is one of the industry's most closely watched measures of car quality.

Midsize Multi-Activity Vehicle
Toyota Highlander

Large Multi-Activity Vehicle
Toyota Sequoia

Large Pickup
Toyota Tundra

From the article...
"The study should also remind people that Toyota's cars, despite its recent high-profile recalls, are still among the most reliable. Toyota took four segment awards, more than any other brand, with the Prius hybrid, Highlander crossover, Sequoia SUV and Tundra pickup ranked the most dependable in their respective classes."

[Stubblefield]

Ford does not offer a v6. 4.6 2V v8 4 spd, 4.6 3V v8 6spd, and 5.4 3V v8 6 spd. One thing you need to remember is that in Canada we use imperial gallons not us gallons. My f150 is light years ahead of the most expensive tundra (mine is only a xlt btw). Quiet steel ftw.


I know Ford does not make a V-6 for the 150. Never suggested that.

You said:


In my mine our 1973 f150 is way better quality then a 2010 tundra.

Given the age of your 150, I assumed it was a straight 6. Are we still talking about the same Ford?

Given the Imperial to US gallon conversion, you are suggesting your boss'es Tundra gets around 8MPG US.

[faster_than_u]

I know Ford does not make a V-6 for the 150. Never suggested that.

You said:



Given the age of your 150, I assumed it was a straight 6. Are we still talking about the same Ford?

Given the Imperial to US gallon conversion, you are suggesting your boss'es Tundra gets around 8MPG US.

I just bought a new one.

in our 73 its a 460. I meant to say in my mine our 1973 f150 is way better quality then a 2010 tundra.

[faster_than_u]

I can understand your loyalty to Ford but seriously, don't get carried away with some ridiculous comparison. Ford has had their fair share of recalls.

I never said that they didnt have recalls I said for the 09/10 f150's there are none unlike some other companies.


Thought you may be interested in this. These selections are from the 2010 J.D. Power and Associates annual vehicle dependability study. Which is one of the industry's most closely watched measures of car quality.

Midsize Multi-Activity Vehicle
Toyota Highlander

Large Multi-Activity Vehicle
Toyota Sequoia

Large Pickup
Toyota Tundra

From the article...
"The study should also remind people that Toyota's cars, despite its recent high-profile recalls, are still among the most reliable. Toyota took four segment awards, more than any other brand, with the Prius hybrid, Highlander crossover, Sequoia SUV and Tundra pickup ranked the most dependable in their respective classes."

Those things dont matter to me at all. I care about the real world here not what some guys driving these around a test track thing. Get out and use them for there intended purpose then see what happens. If they did test them like that then maybe a chev or a dodge would be better then just looking at them.

[DapperJames]

Those things dont matter to me at all. I care about the real world here not what some guys driving these around a test track thing. Get out and use them for there intended purpose then see what happens. If they did test them like that then maybe a chev or a dodge would be better then just looking at them.

Those are "real world" results based on consumer (people who actually drive the vehicles every day) surveys.

[funkyb]

*dusts off this old thread*

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html

and after examining dozens of data recorders from the affected cars, the NHTSA and USDOT concluded that of the data they have analyzed all but one of the problems were caused by driver error. FTA -


NHTSA has received more than 3,000 complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyotas and Lexuses, including some dating to early last decade, according to a report the agency compiled in March. The incidents include 75 fatal crashes involving 93 deaths.

However, NHTSA has been able to verify that only one of those fatal crashes was caused by a problem with the vehicle, according to information the agency provided to the National Academy of Sciences. That accident last Aug. 28, which killed a California highway patrolman and three passengers in a Lexus, was traced to a floor mat that trapped the gas pedal in the depressed position.