Recommend a .40 S&W handgun

[timmy]

I have been looking for a nice .40 S&W handgun for home defense use. I plan on use 135 or 150 grain jacketed hollowpoint. Was at the local brick and mortar gun shop the other day and they recommended the Springfield XD and XDm line.

The others they had that I was also interested in were the

Beretta Px4 Storm
GLOCK 22
Smith & Wesson M&P .40
Springfield EMP - based off the 1911
Springfield XD/m line
Walther PPS 40

Right now the EMP and the Walther are basically ruled out for me since it is limited to 9+1 and 7+1 respectively. Would like to have at least 14+1 so the Sprinfield XD is out but the XDm is still in along with the Beretta, glock, S&W. I am already sure the die hard Glock fans will vote for the 22. I am looking for input on the other handguns on the list. Does anyone here own one of them and are they reliable?

[13ALPHA]

I was about to say what I have, then I read your disclaimer about Glocks, I have the subcompact though, and love it. I can't speak for any other 40S&W, is there a reason you are limiting your choices to that caliber? The 40SW in a subcompact frame is harder to control than my 44mag. Not saying that's a reason to turn away, just an observation.

My college roommate had an XD that he loved and I shot quite a few times, I liked it a lot. It felt a little like a Glock, but I prefered it. When comparing the Glocks and XD, etc, in terms of reliability, they are all very close. Assuming you keep it mostly clean and feed them the same ammo, you're talking which one needs more mud in it to jam, they are all very reliable.

[Leche]

I love my Springfield XD with 4 inch barrel. California only allows criminals to have hi-cap magazines, but I believe you can get at least a 12 round mag with one in the pipe. The weapon is easy to maintain and I have never experienced a jam even with low quality ammo. The price point is excellent too. If your willing to spend a bit more though I would definitely get an HK.

[13ALPHA]

I love my Springfield XD with 4 inch barrel. California only allows criminals to have hi-cap magazines, but I believe you can get at least a 12 round mag with one in the pipe. The weapon is easy to maintain and I have never experienced a jam even with low quality ammo. The price point is excellent too. If your willing to spend a bit more though I would definitely get an HK.

Quite a bit more! I used to have a USP45T, and man it was awesome, but the grip was so big, I just felt like I was holding a beer can instead of a grip, not too mention the decocker scared me when it slammed down. But it was very preicse, high quality.

[timmy]

California only allows criminals to have hi-cap magazines, but I believe you can get at least a 12 round mag with one in the pipe. The weapon is easy to maintain and I have never experienced a jam even with low quality ammo. The price point is excellent too. If your willing to spend a bit more though I would definitely get an HK.

Ah good old California. I am sure 12 or less rounds would do the job especially if you practice, practice, practice. I just think since the state I live in allows higher capacities I would like the comfort of knowing I have those extra rounds :biggrin1:. I have been looking at HK and also Sig as alternatives also they just did not have either at the store for me to pick up and feel in my hands.

[timmy]

I was about to say what I have, then I read your disclaimer about Glocks, I have the subcompact though, and love it. I can't speak for any other 40S&W, is there a reason you are limiting your choices to that caliber? The 40SW in a subcompact frame is harder to control than my 44mag. Not saying that's a reason to turn away, just an observation.

My college roommate had an XD that he loved and I shot quite a few times, I liked it a lot. It felt a little like a Glock, but I prefered it. When comparing the Glocks and XD, etc, in terms of reliability, they are all very close. Assuming you keep it mostly clean and feed them the same ammo, you're talking which one needs more mud in it to jam, they are all very reliable.

I have nothing against Glocks and will probably end up coming down to the Glock and the Springfield as they both felt good in my hand.

[flycbyrd]

glock 27, its a great size 40 s&w, easy to conceal
accepts all the 40 s&w mags by glock. oh yea and
night sights i have this gun under my bed in arms reach
if you have a smaller hand you will love it even more.
check it out see if you like it

[CookieMan]

EDIT: Ignore me and my not reading a whole post. What a schlub I am.
Here's my recommendation. Take it as you wish, being that I've only shot three .40's. The Springfield XD sub-compact, S&W Sigma .40, and the Taurus PT101. Of the three, I prefer the hammer-fired PT101. There's just something about a striker fired pistol I can't get through my head. I'm constantly throwing rounds way off the paper with them. Yes, with the XD you can swap out a few springs and do a couple tricks to the trigger to make it shoot more like a hammer-fired gun, but it still lacks...something. My vote would be for a pt 101. They're solid guns and they handle the higher powered hollow points just fine.

[boomer56]

Hokay...

I have an XD in 9mm, which isn't quite the same, but it's proven extremely reliable. The trigger is long and mushy, but if you can get used to that, it's a reliable weapon.

The real reason I've waded into this thread is that my next handgun is going to be a Stoeger Cougar in .40. It's the same gun Beretta used to make, literally manufactured on the same machines, at substantial discount. I've always liked the design, the rotary barrel seems like a solid concept, and NATO says it works.

I guess, something else to consider.

Best,

Boomer

[flycbyrd]

oh yea keep it mind if you have never shot this kind of pistol,
double action semi-auto, esp in 40 s&w in a sub comp frame,
you may not be very accurate at first, but with practice you
will get there, the amount of practice depends on the shooter also

[timmy]

They also had a Stoeger Cougar in .40 there to look at, Great looking firearm. And I like the fact that their parent company is Benelli. Have a Benelli super nova great build quality. The only thing keeping me from considering the Cougar was the limited magazine capacity.

[timmy]

oh yea keep it mind if you have never shot this kind of pistol,
double action semi-auto, esp in 40 s&w in a sub comp frame,
you may not be very accurate at first, but with practice you
will get there, the amount of practice depends on the shooter also

Practice is needed with any firearm you own. All of the models I was looking at were what I would consider a standard frame size. The Sub compacts are just way too small for my hands to fit comfortably. So looking at least at a 4 in to 5 inch barrel. Having my pinky finger hang off the bottom of a weapon just does not feel right to me.

[flycbyrd]

Practice is needed with any firearm you own. All of the models I was looking at were what I would consider a standard frame size. The Sub compacts are just way too small for my hands to fit comfortably. So looking at least at a 4 in to 5 inch barrel. Having my pinky finger hang off the bottom of a weapon just does not feel right to me.

then you will def not like the baby glock 27
as i imagine our hands are the same size,
i can lay the gun in my hand as my hand is bigger,
its def a 3 finger gun which would require even more practice.
if you are wanting the best feeling gun i have ever put in my hand,
its a baby desert eagle imo.they quit making them
so they are hard to find and i was worried bout the
warranty and if i would have to get it serviced if they would
always have the parts thats why i didnt get that model style.
its a full frame pistol btw. its also known as a Jericho.
i think the xdm by springfield is gonna be your best choice,
but make sure you hold it before you buy it online or something
bc if it doesnt feel good then its not your gone, if it feels like it belongs in your hand , then it does...

[boomer56]

They also had a Stoeger Cougar in .40 there to look at, Great looking firearm. And I like the fact that their parent company is Benelli. Have a Benelli super nova great build quality. The only thing keeping me from considering the Cougar was the limited magazine capacity.

Sir, (I assume you are male, please correct me if in error), I don't know what potential uses you anticipate for your sidearm, but if 11+1 seems too limited, could I recommend you move to a place with fewer zombies? :laugh:

I know it's popular to have half a box of ammo in your weapon at any one time, but really, if the caliber is appropriate, and you do your job behind the trigger, do we need that many backup rounds? The average use of handguns not on target ranges is at absurdly close range...can you really imagine needing more than three rounds to settle a situation taken to such a level?

For my money, I'd rather have fewer rounds behind a solid trigger, with a hammer, than more bullets behind a "closed striker system" that will probably work, but if it doesn't requires a slide rack. Obviously, that opinion doesn't carry much farther than my keyboard...but, well, I would like to think it matters.

Then again, if mine was a popular opinion, I guess certain Austrian gun makers would be less widely carried...

As before, interested to hear what you go with.

Best,

Boomer

[Uncle Erik]

I've also been eyeing several .40 handguns. I'm almost sold on the Glock 22, but want to try an XD. I might fork out the extra cash for a Sig or H&K USP. I have a Sig P6 and a USP .45 that I love, so it's tempting to stay with either brand.

Still, I like the Glocks quite a bit and would enjoy having one in the arsenal for some diversity.

I owned a .40 Sigma for a few years. It's a reasonably good firearm. Reliable and the price is terrific, but I didn't find it terribly accurate. This was over ten years ago, however, and I think S&W has made some improvements. I might pick up another Sigma just to have a gun to kick around and maybe leave in the car.

[Jim B.]

I wouldn't rule out the EMP and the Walther because of the 9+1 and 7+1 capacities. If you can't do whatever job you want to do with those capacities, then there is a problem.

[13ALPHA]

i wouldn't rule out the emp and the walther because of the 9+1 and 7+1 capacities. If you can't do whatever job you want to do with those capacities, then there is a problem.

+1

[Hreafn]

I have the XD in 40, my cop friends wish they could carry it. I have tried to make it misfire and jam i cant get it to misbehave. I do have the high cap mags but i agree with what was said here if you need more than 3 rounds you either need to hit the range more or move out of zombie town. What I love about the weapon is the loaded and cocked indicators. As far as glocks go they are a solid weapon platform I didnt like the way they fit in my hand. Thats what it really comes down to is how the weapon feels in your hand it is YOUR hide on the line.

[flycbyrd]

I have the XD in 40, my cop friends wish they could carry it. I have tried to make it misfire and jam i cant get it to misbehave. I do have the high cap mags but i agree with what was said here if you need more than 3 rounds you either need to hit the range more or move out of zombie town. What I love about the weapon is the loaded and cocked indicators. As far as glocks go they are a solid weapon platform I didnt like the way they fit in my hand. Thats what it really comes down to is how the weapon feels in your hand it is YOUR hide on the line.

exactly if it doesnt feel right in your hand its not for you
and if it does it was made for you. i would seriously consider
the Xd M, while the xd will be cheaper the Xd M is the updated
version of the xd and has a better handle, even more comfortable
then the old one...

[timmy]

I wouldn't rule out the EMP and the Walther because of the 9+1 and 7+1 capacities. If you can't do whatever job you want to do with those capacities, then there is a problem.

Live in a place with a lot of zombies and I mean a lot of zombies, think zombie land. you never know when you may need the extra capacity. Or maybe the real thing is I am lazy and do not want to reload magazines that often when buying a standard sized frame pistol. :001_tongu

[flycbyrd]

Live in a place with a lot of zombies and I mean a lot of zombies, think zombie land. you never know when you may need the extra capacity. Or maybe the real thing is I am lazy and do not want to reload magazines that often when buying a standard sized frame pistol. :001_tongu

if you willing to spend the extra dough try the five-seven.
service frame, i think 17+1 mag, and it comes with 3 mags
and a carrying case, some other stuff too.its not a 40 s&w
but the bullets are def just as lethal as 40s&w and the
bullets are cheap compared to 40 s&w, only problem the
gun cost around 1200-1400

[timmy]

if you willing to spend the extra dough try the five-seven.
service frame, i think 17+1 mag, and it comes with 3 mags
and a carrying case, some other stuff too.its not a 40 s&w
but the bullets are def just as lethal as 40s&w and the
bullets are cheap compared to 40 s&w, only problem the
gun cost around 1200-1400

Very nice looking firearm, way outside my price range, with the money I save by not paying that price tag I can put that in to the ammo and probably make up the difference:001_smile

[flycbyrd]

Very nice looking firearm, way outside my price range, with the money I save by not paying that price tag I can put that in to the ammo and probably make up the difference:001_smile

yes its very nice and it was way out of mine too
but you would be surprised some people have no limit
that must be nice....the only other reason i didnt
want it when i got mine is that i got my gun not long
after the guy that was in the military shot all
those people in texas, he used the five-seven 2 of them
i didnt want people thinking i was some freak..

[Gravy]

Sig 229!
One of the few designed first for the .40
Only later did it become available in 9mm and .357sig.

[Subrage]

I like my subcompact xd40, feels alot better in my hand than the glock's. Glocks grip i found to narrow. But what ever feels the most comfortable in your hand is what you should get.

Ive thought about trading it in though and picking up the xdm, since i really dont carry it.

[flycbyrd]

I like my subcompact xd40, feels alot better in my hand than the glock's. Glocks grip i found to narrow. But what ever feels the most comfortable in your hand is what you should get.

Ive thought about trading it in though and picking up the xdm, since i really dont carry it.

i looked at those but he is wanting a full frame or similar, no type of compact

[jrhudgins]

I also have a Glock 27, and it verges on being too small, though I have the extension to be able to get one more finger on the grip. Qualified at the police range with it (25yd), but for me it is just for concealment. I stated all that just for reference for the next two mentioned:
I love the feel of the Beretta PX4 Storm, and it shoots like a dream for me. I am more accurate with it than with the one I like most, the Sig P229, but they are both very nice pistols. Get night sights!
But I would kick myself if I didn't go outside your parameters and suggest that you test shoot a 45ACP...

JR

[flycbyrd]

I also have a Glock 27, and it verges on being too small, though I have the extension to be able to get one more finger on the grip. Qualified at the police range with it (25yd), but for me it is just for concealment. I stated all that just for reference for the next two mentioned:
I love the feel of the Beretta PX4 Storm, and it shoots like a dream for me. I am more accurate with it than with the one I like most, the Sig P229, but they are both very nice pistols. Get night sights!
But I would kick myself if I didn't go outside your parameters and suggest that you test shoot a 45ACP...

JR

+1 for the glock 27 for concealment +10 for the night sights

[Barcochris]

I like the XD with the 4 inch barrel, a trip to springer precision can take care of the long trigger and long reset...

[timmy]

i looked at those but he is wanting a full frame or similar, no type of compact

I am going to have to look in to all of these other options. The reason for the full frame at the moment is right now I have no reason for a concealed firearm. I also do not have the licenses to carry a concealed firearm. In the future I do plan to go to the proper classes and acquire the proper licenses for my CCW Permit. I will also have to check out .45ACP as a viable caliber but from what research i have done on my own .40S&W sounds like the way I want to go for now.

[flycbyrd]

I am going to have to look in to all of these other options. The reason for the full frame at the moment is right now I have no reason for a concealed firearm. I also do not have the licenses to carry a concealed firearm. In the future I do plan to go to the proper classes and acquire the proper licenses for my CCW Permit. I will also have to check out .45ACP as a viable caliber but from what research i have done on my own .40S&W sounds like the way I want to go for now.

i was i debated on getting the glock 36 or the 27, 36 is a slime line 45;
i went with the 40 s&w for more then one reason. but from my scientific
approach at the ballistics test. the 40 s&w travels faster on average then
the 45; and well the 45 is a bigger bullet. but bigger bullets are not always
better. for instance the hollow point in these guns. hollow points are able to
expand more quickly at higher rates of speed. for ex a 135 grain federal premium jh low recoil shot out of a 40 travels 1190ft/s and has 424 ft/lb of force while the same bullet made for the 45 weighing 165 grains travels 1060ft/s and hits with 412ft/lb of energy. that means on impact the initial hole might be bigger on the 45 but the 40 will have a bigger hole right when it gets through the skin and are less likely to travel all the way through the target into innocent by standers.

the 40 does kick more.

another selling point for the 40 is the 45 will be much heavier fully loaded then a 40 and if you are planning on concealing that is something of importance. i dont conceal yet but that is what i bought mine for.


and to those who think the bigger ones are better, the .25 is a nasty little bugger in hollow points. if you get into a confrontation that requires for and you have jh the bullets travel so slow that they wont break thru bone instead they bounce around inside you and shred you to pieces. 380very similiar but are not as effective as a 40 because they lack penetration capability at moderate ranges, thats where it would be nice to have something you can rely on. the 380 is a good back up side arm to the 40 if you carry two guns though

[timmy]

Looks like you studied some of the numbers I have been looking at. I also based my decision on .40 off the ballistic pressure wave created by the bullet traveling through soft tissue. This pressure wave is from my understanding associated with remote wounding effects known as hydrostatic shock. The higher the pressure wave a bullet can create and then dissipate in to the body in a shorter amount of time creates a higher probability of brain damage.

The Ballistic Pressure Wave Theory of Handgun Bullet Incapacitation (http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0803/0803.3053.pdf)

[Snappy Lunch]

Glock 23 for primary.
Ruger LCR for backup.

[wilsondude]

Sig 229!
One of the few designed first for the .40
Only later did it become available in 9mm and .357sig.

An enthusiastic thumbs up to the Sig, in my favorite, in .357 caliber. These guns are shooters, the cadillac of handguns IMO. I also have a Sig p238, another great shooter in .380 caliber, and a very capable carry gun. I have owned several of the glocks mentioned above, and the Kahr's(PM), both in .40 and 9mm. I wouldn't part with either of my Sigs.

[Blondie]

I have two .40's. A baby eagle and a glock 23. Used to have a sigma, could never recommend it as it had many misfires. None of them are as accurate as my .357 wheel gun though. Balls dead accurate at 50 yards. And a hand cannon.

[timmy]

I have two .40's. A baby eagle and a glock 23. Used to have a sigma, could never recommend it as it had many misfires. None of them are as accurate as my .357 wheel gun though. Balls dead accurate at 50 yards. And a hand cannon.

Hand Cannon like the following one?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Taurus_627-KLM_357MAG_009.jpg

[flycbyrd]

Looks like you studied some of the numbers I have been looking at. I also based my decision on .40 off the ballistic pressure wave created by the bullet traveling through soft tissue. This pressure wave is from my understanding associated with remote wounding effects known as hydrostatic shock. The higher the pressure wave a bullet can create and then dissipate in to the body in a shorter amount of time creates a higher probability of brain damage.

The Ballistic Pressure Wave Theory of Handgun Bullet Incapacitation (http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0803/0803.3053.pdf)

exactly yes hydroshock, it can create brain damage, it can also cause other organs to stop working like collapsed lungs...

[flycbyrd]

Hand Cannon like the following one?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Taurus_627-KLM_357MAG_009.jpg

i like the baby de too, but they quit making them; I have a Ultralite blued judge, a glock 27, and a very old 32 short centerfire revolver its a brake barrel made by a bicycle company....i have a problem with the yolk screw on my judge right now tho; that is just pistol wise though

[jrhudgins]

I want to interject here that, for me, handguns can be enjoyable, fun. Going out to the range and going through several boxes of cartridges in several different guns is both challenging and relaxing. I admit that there can certainly be different characteristics that one would look for in a handgun depending on whether they plan to use it in that way, or strictly for protection.
That is why I mentioned the 45ACP. I am very familiar with 1911s, so that familiarity makes them like an old friend that I can take out and get to perform in a predictable manner. And for that reason I enjoy them most.
If I were to be heading out the door expecting a firefight, I would probably grab the Sig P229 for its higher capacity and certain reliability. But it would be a hard choice since I would just take fewer, more selective shots with the 45.
If I were to go back into Grizzly country at altitude, I would take the 44mag revolver.
And to have fun, shoot all day, and improve your technique, the BuckMark is hard to beat.

[soapbox]

I have exactly one .40 S&W handgun, so I can't compare apples to apples. I very much like the Browning Hi-Power I do have, though. It kicks a bit more than I think a .40 should (given the comparatively mild recoil in my .45 ACP), but the Browning is a good 10-round mag performer. Accurate to 25 yards. As with all Hi-powers I've come across, the hammer is a bit tight if you try to cock it with your thumb. It's also a bit slimmer than a Glock.

My two cents.

[flycbyrd]

I have exactly one .40 S&W handgun, so I can't compare apples to apples. I very much like the Browning Hi-Power I do have, though. It kicks a bit more than I think a .40 should (given the comparatively mild recoil in my .45 ACP), but the Browning is a good 10-round mag performer. Accurate to 25 yards. As with all Hi-powers I've come across, the hammer is a bit tight if you try to cock it with your thumb. It's also a bit slimmer than a Glock.

My two cents.

a 40 s&w kicks real good because of the pressure building up in
it so much to push the bullet out with a high velocity. if your gun
is a small compact and lite then it will kick more then a heavier one
in the same caliber.yours probably kicks about like mine..

[flycbyrd]

I want to interject here that, for me, handguns can be enjoyable, fun. Going out to the range and going through several boxes of cartridges in several different guns is both challenging and relaxing. I admit that there can certainly be different characteristics that one would look for in a handgun depending on whether they plan to use it in that way, or strictly for protection.
That is why I mentioned the 45ACP. I am very familiar with 1911s, so that familiarity makes them like an old friend that I can take out and get to perform in a predictable manner. And for that reason I enjoy them most.
If I were to be heading out the door expecting a firefight, I would probably grab the Sig P229 for its higher capacity and certain reliability. But it would be a hard choice since I would just take fewer, more selective shots with the 45.
If I were to go back into Grizzly country at altitude, I would take the 44mag revolver.
And to have fun, shoot all day, and improve your technique, the BuckMark is hard to beat.

:001_smile who doesnt like to shoot guns at the range or in there backyard;

but i do wonder something how you can love the 1911 most?, that is unless you never conceal it or you do and you are really fat....

if by your statement of heading out the door expecting a firefight you mean
carrying a concealed gun in case it could happen; i would want to take the one gun im most familiar with not the one with the most rounds; 5 shots 5 hits is better then 10 shots 5 hits.

if by your statement you mean that your heading out the door to defend yourself on your property; i can honestly tell you it wouldnt be my choice to take any 3 of my pistols... i would want a 6.5 grendel tactical with a red dot sight and a back up mag already loaded..

if it where in home protection i would take my fully loaded glock cocked in ready inside my waistband as my back up weapon. and a 10 or 12 gauge tactical shot gun loaded with 3 inch magnum birdshot(7,7 1/2, 0r 8) or my favorite squirrel shot ( 6), nothing that contained under 20 pellets. and fitted with a ghost bead.

[penates]

Your selection depends on whether you want a plinker, a competition gun, home defense, or all of the above. Assuming that you are not in a state that restricts magazine capacity I would go with the Glock model 22. The glock series of pistols are ubiquitous and as such are very easy to find magazines, parts, holsters, etc. They also allow you to enter the GSSF (Glock Shooting Sports Federation) competitions which are a good way to get your feet wet in shooting sports competitions. They are also caveman easy to repair. You can also find law enforcement trade in pistols in the 375 to 425 dollar range. FWIW I carry a different sidearm at my agency but the Glock is a perfectly adequate choice, also I would not recommend a bullet weight lighter than 155 grain in the 40S&W cartridge as the OAL is a bit short and there tends to be feeding problems in that bullet weight. 155 to 180 grain loads tend to have the pressure curve and OAL to provide more reliable feeding.

[flycbyrd]

I got my Glock 27 with night sights brand new in the box with its extra mag and etc for only $440 and yes im sure it was new and yes it was a steal for that price I know i got lucky.

[blary54]

I own a Glock 35 and a Springfield XD both are great but I shoot the xd alot more because its a 9mm and alot cheaper to shoot.

[Deltaboy]

I love and carry my Sigma 40 VE and it goes bang every time.:thumbup1:

[americanarmsdealer]

CZ75. Goes bang every time, and you can't beet the ergonomics with any double stack pistol on the market!

[40boy]

Of the 6 you listed, my choice would be the Glock 22.
Simple to operate. Stone cold reliable. Easy to shoot.

Others you may want to consider are SIG 226 or 229, Beretta 96 and HK USP.
The SIG 229 would be my personal preference.

[trumpetchris]

I've got a S&W sigma. Super reliable, inexpensive, similar feel (although heavier trigger) as the the glock. Great gun for the money (300 +tax).

[jlanger]

I own a Glock 35 and a Springfield XD both are great but I shoot the xd alot more because its a 9mm and alot cheaper to shoot.

I'd think the gun you'd shoot the most would be the one you'd be most comfortable with. That's my dilema also, 9mm is so much cheaper then .45 or .40. But I still worry about the knock down power (which I know is way over done)

[Hreafn]

when in doubt shoot them in the face

[82R100]

when in doubt shoot them in the face

Lovely advice.

And this answers the subject line how?

[ofelas]

:001_smile who doesnt like to shoot guns at the range or in there backyard;

but i do wonder something how you can love the 1911 most?, that is unless you never conceal it or you do and you are really fat....
if by your statement of heading out the door expecting a firefight you mean
carrying a concealed gun in case it could happen; i would want to take the one gun im most familiar with not the one with the most rounds; 5 shots 5 hits is better then 10 shots 5 hits.

if by your statement you mean that your heading out the door to defend yourself on your property; i can honestly tell you it wouldnt be my choice to take any 3 of my pistols... i would want a 6.5 grendel tactical with a red dot sight and a back up mag already loaded..

if it where in home protection i would take my fully loaded glock cocked in ready inside my waistband as my back up weapon. and a 10 or 12 gauge tactical shot gun loaded with 3 inch magnum birdshot(7,7 1/2, 0r 8) or my favorite squirrel shot ( 6), nothing that contained under 20 pellets. and fitted with a ghost bead.

You have got to be kidding me...I am very athletic & have very low bodyfat, but I find the 1911 & most steel framed sidearms very easy to conceal in a well made high riding pancake or a good IWB. The slimness of the frame & single stack magazine makes this a winner for concealment. The CZ75 & FN-35 are similar in this regard. It's important to have a stable, snug riding, well made molded holster, whether horsehide, cowhide or kydex that does the job without being too thick & blocky.

[flycbyrd]

You have got to be kidding me...I am very athletic & have very low bodyfat, but I find the 1911 & most steel framed sidearms very easy to conceal in a well made high riding pancake or a good IWB. The slimness of the frame & single stack magazine makes this a winner for concealment. The CZ75 & FN-35 are similar in this regard. It's important to have a stable, snug riding, well made molded holster, whether horsehide, cowhide or kydex that does the job without being too thick & blocky.

Even with the low body fat, your athletic so is your body frame large? Not saying your fat. When you conceal the 1911 inside the waist; do you do it all day, including when your sitting down? I have a very stable inside the waist band holster for my glock, I just dont see how you can think that the service frames gun is comfortably concealed, especially if your sitting down alot all day. Another question are you putting the gun behind your back when your concealing? Thats the only way i could see it working, dont see how you could find it comfortable if your carrying IWB on the side and still have it concealed and be comfortable.

[timmy]

Went to the range the other day. Had a chance to shoot both a XDm and a G22. Both are standard frame pistols in 40s&w with 4.5" barrels. After firing 50 rounds through both of them I felt the Glock slightly felt better in my hand. Neither had issues with cycling rounds. My targets and groups ended up been almost equal with both pistols. The two things the XDm had going for it over the Glock were the extra bullets in the mag and the cock indicator on the back of the slide. Both things I could live with out for the right price. My decision came down to price. The range owner did me a solid and sold me the G22 for 460+tax, this included an extra mag, a Fobus Paddle Holsters and a Fobus Magazine Pouch. This brought the extras up the what is supplied with the stock XDm. The price for the XDm was 660+tax and the owner would not budge on that price for me. Now I just need to decide what to blow the 200 dollars I saved on. Thinking maybe a 40 to 9mm conversion barrel (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/GNS139-1.html) and some 9mm glock mags. I would say a laser or light, but IMO laser and lights just give some one a target to shoot back at.

[Snappy Lunch]

Congrats on your choice. I carry a G23 every day, and do not regret it one bit. Sounds like you got a good deal too.





Don't give up, Don't ever give up.
Jimmy V.

[Hansel]

But I still worry about the knock down power (which I know is way over done)

Knock down power eh? Well, how about we talk a little bit about how much kinetic energy each round produces?

9mm Luger loads produce anywhere from 430 (For special subsonic loads for use with suppressors) to 470 joules of energy at the muzzle for standard loads.
.45 ACP is 475 to 485 joules for standard loads.
.40 SW is 465 to 480 joules for standard loads.

Notice two things here. First, all three rounds produce about the same actual energy. Second, .40SW may be relatively new (And expensive), but 9mm and .45ACP have been sending goblins packing for over 100 years; both have withstood the test of time.

For comparison sake, let's look at some other common semi-auto pistol self defense rounds.

.380 Auto (.380ACP) is about half as powerful, with 225 joules at the muzzle. Quite a few people out there, myself included, will tell you this is the bare minimum for self defense.
.32 Auto produces about 175 joules.
.25 Auto is a whopping 90 joules (Please stop shooting me, that stings!) of energy.

Notice that these three rounds are peanuts compared to 9mm, .45, or .40, BUT, they can still kill you plenty dead plenty quick! Stopping a threat with a pistol isn't about how much "knock down power" your round has, it's about putting holes in things that your target needs to survive. A hole in the heart, aorta, important pieces of the brain or central nervous system, or both lungs will stop most threats. The more rounds you fire, the better chances you have of scoring a fatal hit. 9mm or .45 are plenty powerful to do serious damage when scoring a hit on any one of those parts...

Just for the hell of it, lets look at some 'manly-man' pistol rounds next.

10mm Auto (Like a .40SW Magnum) can crank out 600 to 630 joules.
.357 Sig Auto produces a respectable 900 joules or so, and if you really wanted a pistol with "knock down power" I would recommend one of these over .40. If your ammo is going to be crazy expensive you might as well get some bang for your buck.

If you were serious about getting a pistol with lots of punch, you're really headed to revolver land. .357 Magnum cranks out 1000 to 1200 joules, that's almost as much as some rifles. .44 Magnum, with it's perhaps rightfully deserved reputation as a highly effective goblin-stopper, is in the ballpark of 1700 (!!) joules! That makes it roughly as powerful as a 5.56mm NATO round fired by the M-16! However, consider how likely you are to actually carry or practice with such a hand-cannon?

For the hell of it, let's look at some rifle rounds...

.223 is about 1750 joules of energy at the muzzle. Thats about as much energy as the .44 Magnum we talked about before, but because these rounds tumble and fragment, they inflict much more...Nasty...Wounds...

.308 can have over 3550 (!) joules of energy. That makes EVERYTHING else we talked about look like tiny little cocktail peanuts!

So, again, unless you plan to carry an M-14 battle rifle with you everywhere you go, forget about knockdown power in a defensive handgun. Get a 9mm or a .45. Both are effective, relatively affordable, and ammo is available and pretty cheap compared to some of the more exotic rounds. Then go spend the money you saved by going to the range and getting some practice so you can hit the target. Practice double taps, etc. A hit with a 9mm is worth a thousand misses with the death star laser.


Even with the low body fat, your athletic so is your body frame large? Not saying your fat. When you conceal the 1911 inside the waist; do you do it all day, including when your sitting down? I have a very stable inside the waist band holster for my glock, I just dont see how you can think that the service frames gun is comfortably concealed, especially if your sitting down alot all day. Another question are you putting the gun behind your back when your concealing? Thats the only way i could see it working, dont see how you could find it comfortable if your carrying IWB on the side and still have it concealed and be comfortable.

My Glock-17 is about the same size as a standard 1911, and I have no trouble keeping it hidden, and thats when carrying outside the waistband. I'm not fat, but I'm 6'6" and pretty big. What makes the difference is having a good holster that keeps the pistol tucked up close to your body and prevents the handle from sticking out. Having a nice cover garment helps too.

[Gravy]

I also have a G17 that I carry concealed. Never had a problem. It's not my full time carry but it's far from being hard to do. Don't really feel the need to explain "how I can carry a large gun comfortably" either. YMMV

[TheFlyingFrenchman]

Okay, so by the point in the threads life this has probably already been recommended. But +1 for the M&P. Also the XDm.

The M&P is definitely one of my favorite handguns. Got really great groupings from the start with it, feels really nice in your hand.

[flycbyrd]

My Glock-17 is about the same size as a standard 1911, and I have no trouble keeping it hidden, and thats when carrying outside the waistband. I'm not fat, but I'm 6'6" and pretty big. What makes the difference is having a good holster that keeps the pistol tucked up close to your body and prevents the handle from sticking out. Having a nice cover garment helps too.

Ok are you able to carry it iwb though comfortably? Im 5 11 and 190 lbs, muscular, not much a stomach, but very broad shoulders. I have a great iwb holster, a Bianchi. I can conceal my g27 all day with that holster, including when im driving. My other holster i was told was an amazing holster, i on the other hand do not care for it, its a fobus otb paddle holster. It doesnt feel bad when carrying with it but retrieving my gun from it is a battle in its own. Its the right holster for the gun, but the made it a little to snug, alot of people have this problem with the holster i have though. In fact one time i tried to draw with it and drew the whole holster and gun together.

[Derek_V]

Hey Guys,

While it doesn't get the range time that my 1911's do, I can recommend the M&P. The exchangable grip inserts for different sized hands are nice, although this is by no means a feature exclusive to the S&W. I will say that the M&P seems to handle the 'snap' recoil of the .40 (as opposed to the 'push' recoil of the .45ACP) quite well.

One small problem with the early run M&P's, the mag catch tended to wear down and cause the mags to drop while firing. S&W fixed 'em for free, but you might want to avoid a 1st gen gun to avoid the hassle.

Good luck with your choice, and enjoy the gun!

Regards
Derek

[Derek_V]

Enjoy your Glock!

I've an M&P myself, both great guns, although I'll always be a 1911 guy at heart.

Cheers!

Derek

[Omnichron]

this reminds me of the following quote: God made Men, Smith & Wesson made them equal! :biggrin1:

[Gravy]

this reminds me of the following quote: God made Men, Smith & Wesson made them equal! :biggrin1:

Ahem, I believe that was Samuel Colt :wink:

[ofelas]

Ahem, I believe that was Samuel Colt :wink:

Beat me to it :biggrin1:

[boomer56]

Hey Timmy,

Glad you found something you like. This thread has wandered a bit, but I hope that was the ultimate point :)

Best,

Boomer

[Hansel]

Ok are you able to carry it iwb though comfortably?

I don't have an IWB holster, but I've borrowed a Comp-Tac (IIRC) a few times and tried IWB. I didn't care for it since I like to have a holster that won't draw with the gun, and I do like to have a little bit of retention. My Safariland ALS concealment holsters (6377 ALS belt holster) keeps a pretty low profile and unless you know to hit the release you aren't going to get my gun.

[flycbyrd]

I don't have an IWB holster, but I've borrowed a Comp-Tac (IIRC) a few times and tried IWB. I didn't care for it since I like to have a holster that won't draw with the gun, and I do like to have a little bit of retention. My Safariland ALS concealment holsters (6377 ALS belt holster) keeps a pretty low profile and unless you know to hit the release you aren't going to get my gun.

Safariland are great holsters +20

[Savor the Stick]

Glock 23

[nuclear balm]

A 40 has lots of recoil! Lots of holes in the badguy from a 9mm would be easier to control and do the job. You only stop the perp with the shots you make!

[paddy-boy]

A 40 has lots of recoil! Lots of holes in the badguy from a 9mm would be easier to control and do the job. You only stop the perp with the shots you make!

Recoil, like many things in life, is subjective.
I find the 40 a little snappy but not difficult to control.
but the truth be told I prefer my GLOCK 20 over the 22.

[NavyLaw]

I would suggest the Glock 22 or the Walther P99 in .40 cal. But my ultimate home defense weapon of choice will always be the .45 ACP. My personal is the Kimber Tactical Custom II. An absolutely AMAZING weapon.

In regards to rounds for home defense I recommend the Extreme Shock Anti-Terrorism Explosive entry Fang Face rounds. They can be found online at www.extremeshockusa.com and are available to the punlic. They are on the expensive side but when it comes to protecting your family...who doesnt want the best. Steve

[Easttexasman]

If all you are wanting is home defense and not a shooter,I suggest a Taurus Judge

[garyg]

H&K makes a nice compact .40, I think this pistol was designed around the 40 Smith,

[LukeDuke]

You made a fine choice in selecting the Glock 22. It will last your lifetime plus several more. My advice is to learn the trigger reset on the pistol and shoot it as much as you can. You have done well! :thumbup:

[ackvil]

For me, the Glock 23 is tops! :thumbup1:

[titan_021]

I have the XDm in 9mm, and love to shoot it, but for a self defense gun there is nothing like a HK USP in .45...I recenlty picked up the HK45C for concealed carry. It's only an 8+1, but I figure that if I squeeze off 9 rounds and actually need to reload, I have more trouble than I can handle.

[olblueyez]

If it’s for home defense then I think reliability would be the most important thing. One factor is quality ammo, cheap ammo with cause a jam every time. I also believe having a reliable weapon is more important than having a large magazine capacity. For this reason I would go with HK, Sig Sauer, or Wather and then Smith or Beretta. If you have a lady in the house then she will need to know how to use the gun too, and it is most likely that she will find the straight magazine arrangement on the more compact models much easier to use. The wider handle on a staggered magazine makes for a situation where all the controls cannot be reached when holding the gun in the firing position for people with small hands. Most women will also not appreciate the added weight of the larger capacity models.

Personaly I would go for something like this. 357 at 8 rounds. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765955_-1_757775_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Something like this would would take care of things. Dont even have to wake up the wife.

[rdeakle]

Ok, first of all, I only read the OP, so forgive me if I'm being redundant. BUT

If you are looking for a home defense gun, a .40 is probably not the best choice in general unless you have some type of formal repetitive training. The recoil from a .40 often causes the spent shell to get lodged in the slide, jamming the gun. Also it has quite a bit of recoil. If you are not used to shooting such a gun, it can be quite difficult, especially when waking up in the middle of the night half groggy and out of it. In general, .40s also have an extremely bright muzzle flash, so bright that most people compare it to looking straight into a camera flash. If you ever have to use it, you're more than likely going to blind yourself.

If you're looking for a home defense gun, and you are set on a handgun, get a revolver. There is a lot less steps in a revolver. For example, you don't have to remember to pull the slide to put a round in the chamber, and turn the safety off. Revolvers are just point and shoot. Plus with a revolver you don't have to worry about jamming either. It's stupid simple. The draw back is if you have kids that would be getting into mischief as a revolver, as stated is always ready to fire.

As for your round requirements, if you cannot hit something with 6 shots, you have no business using a firearm. As far as self defense is concerned, you will likely be within 10 feet of the person who is attacking you. There is no need for 15 rounds at that point.

If you really want a true home defense gun, you should be looking hard at some sort of a shotgun. They make 'home defense' shotguns which hold 5 rounds in a tube, and are often short barreled pumps. With one of these all you need to do is point and shoot. No need for aiming or any of that. Plus with the spread of the shot, its hard to miss. Also the racking of a pump shotgun in the middle of the night will probably be more than enough to scare whoever is in your house to begin with. If you do not feel you can handle a 12ga, they make 20ga and .410 versions. I guarantee you a .410 loaded with 4 pellet 000 Buckshot (basically the equivalent to 4 .45cal slugs) will more than suffice.

Anyway, thats just my 2 cents. Whatever gun you chose, just make sure you get plenty of range time with it to make you are comfortable with shooting it. Good luck!

[garyg]

Ok, first of all, I only read the OP, so forgive me if I'm being redundant. BUT

If you are looking for a home defense gun, a .40 is probably not the best choice in general unless you have some type of formal repetitive training. The recoil from a .40 often causes the spent shell to get lodged in the slide, jamming the gun. Also it has quite a bit of recoil. If you are not used to shooting such a gun, it can be quite difficult, especially when waking up in the middle of the night half groggy and out of it. In general, .40s also have an extremely bright muzzle flash, so bright that most people compare it to looking straight into a camera flash. If you ever have to use it, you're more than likely going to blind yourself.

If you're looking for a home defense gun, and you are set on a handgun, get a revolver. There is a lot less steps in a revolver. For example, you don't have to remember to pull the slide to put a round in the chamber, and turn the safety off. Revolvers are just point and shoot. Plus with a revolver you don't have to worry about jamming either. It's stupid simple. The draw back is if you have kids that would be getting into mischief as a revolver, as stated is always ready to fire.

As for your round requirements, if you cannot hit something with 6 shots, you have no business using a firearm. As far as self defense is concerned, you will likely be within 10 feet of the person who is attacking you. There is no need for 15 rounds at that point.

If you really want a true home defense gun, you should be looking hard at some sort of a shotgun. They make 'home defense' shotguns which hold 5 rounds in a tube, and are often short barreled pumps. With one of these all you need to do is point and shoot. No need for aiming or any of that. Plus with the spread of the shot, its hard to miss. Also the racking of a pump shotgun in the middle of the night will probably be more than enough to scare whoever is in your house to begin with. If you do not feel you can handle a 12ga, they make 20ga and .410 versions. I guarantee you a .410 loaded with 4 pellet 000 Buckshot (basically the equivalent to 4 .45cal slugs) will more than suffice.

Anyway, thats just my 2 cents. Whatever gun you chose, just make sure you get plenty of range time with it to make you are comfortable with shooting it. Good luck!


+1 This is probably the best advice I have seen in this thread, certainly the most comprehensive. The Glock syndrome, which says the # of shots in the magazine is the key, is pretty lame unless you are a sloppy shooter. In which case you need to hope for a sloppier guy on the other side.

[Harvey]

If you need 14 shots you better learn to shoot cause that ain,t gona happen. An intruder is not an army attack. You need a light and one or 2 shots..I have a S@W 8 shot .357..no safety..looks menacing and it is. Most home defense problems come from unfamilarity with the weapon and fumbling with the safety. My other gun is a H @ K P7 M8..also no safety..a squeeze cocker. The gun you use should be completely comfortable and familiar..take a class or shot it a lot!!!

[Ruger Packer]

I've got about half a dozen handguns stashed around the house in the event I need one in a hurry. Among them are semi's, revolvers and one derringer. In calibers .38 Spl, 9mm, .357 mag, .40 S&W, 45 LC and .45 ACP.

If I have my choice I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 ACP. Its the most controllable round I have every shot. .40's are a close second.

I don't own any of the newfangled plastic toy guns :thumbdown like Glocks or Springfield XD's. Just like most of you guys don't own plastic cartridge razors. :thumbup:

IMHO, best gun for home defense is a double action revolver in .357 mag (can also shoot .38 spls in it). :gun_bandana:

[rdeakle]

Forgot to mention that you need to also think about what might be behind what you're shooting at. 357 and 40s, etc carry through walls without a problem, so you take the risk of hitting whatever is in the next room, etc. Just another thing to think about.

Just a note: most shotguns wont carry though walls.

[stobes21]

...If you really want a true home defense gun, you should be looking hard at some sort of a shotgun. They make 'home defense' shotguns which hold 5 rounds in a tube, and are often short barreled pumps. With one of these all you need to do is point and shoot. No need for aiming or any of that. Plus with the spread of the shot, its hard to miss. Also the racking of a pump shotgun in the middle of the night will probably be more than enough to scare whoever is in your house to begin with. If you do not feel you can handle a 12ga, they make 20ga and .410 versions. I guarantee you a .410 loaded with 4 pellet 000 Buckshot (basically the equivalent to 4 .45cal slugs) will more than suffice.

Anyway, thats just my 2 cents. Whatever gun you chose, just make sure you get plenty of range time with it to make you are comfortable with shooting it. Good luck!

Not to be a jerk, but it sounds like you need to get some range time with a shotgun. "No need for aiming or any of that."? A cylinder (most open) choked shotgun will produce a spread of roughly 1" per yard traveled. So at 10 feet you're talking about a pattern barely over 3 inches. So if you hope to hit your target aim is just as important as it is with a handgun or a rifle.


Just a note: most shotguns wont carry though walls.

Not to pick on you, but this is false as well. A shotgun loaded with buckshot will penetrate drywall and wood studs just as much, if not more, than handgun bullets. The fact is that any projectile that won't penetrate drywall certainly isn't going to penetrate bone and flesh enough to stop a bad guy.

As for the OP: I had a Sig 226 in .40 S&W that was a finely made handgun. But I could never get it to shoot very accurately. Perhaps there was an issue with the gun itself or perhaps I just couldn't handle the recoil, but either way months of practice and at least a thousand rounds of ammo weren't enough to get my groups below about 6" at 10 yards, and that is just unacceptable to me. I traded it for a Kahr CW9 in 9mm and within about 10 rounds I was shooting the kahr more accurately. It's a fraction of the size and weight and the sights aren't as good as the Sig's. I can't really explain it, but I'm glad I made that trade.

[Deltaboy]

I love my Sigma 40 VE so far. :thumbup: I have had for 4 years.

[73mountaineer]

Toss my vote in for a S&W Sigma in .40 as well. IMHO, it is a very underrated, economical pistol. I have run hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds through one of those and could probably count the number of malfunctions on one hand.

- Steve :001_cool:

[Gravy]

As for the OP: I had a Sig 226 in .40 S&W that was a finely made handgun. But I could never get it to shoot very accurately. Perhaps there was an issue with the gun itself or perhaps I just couldn't handle the recoil, but either way months of practice and at least a thousand rounds of ammo weren't enough to get my groups below about 6" at 10 yards,.

Luke,
Sounds to me like you got a lemon. I continue to be impressed by the accuracy my p229 and p239 in .40S&W. I will say though, I actually shoot the smaller p239 better because the single stack/grips fit my hand better. Possibly that smaller Kahr is a better fit?
Just an observation I've come to realize for myself.

[Gravy]

Ok, first of all, I only read the OP, so forgive me if I'm being redundant. BUT

If you are looking for a home defense gun, a .40 is probably not the best choice in general unless you have some type of formal repetitive training. The recoil from a .40 often causes the spent shell to get lodged in the slide, jamming the gun.

I've been shooting .40's for over a dozen years and have never, ever encountered any failures related to this. I've actually only had one jam w/ my carry gun due to new grips keeping the mag from fully seating - an easy fix.
Do you have a source for this statistic?

[stobes21]

Luke,
Sounds to me like you got a lemon. I continue to be impressed by the accuracy my p229 and p239 in .40S&W. I will say though, I actually shoot the smaller p239 better because the single stack/grips fit my hand better. Possibly that smaller Kahr is a better fit?
Just an observation I've come to realize for myself.

Yeah, I've long suspected it was a lemon. Pretty close inspection didn't reveal any problems with the barrel, and the slide seemed to fit nice and tight to the frame. But more experienced handgun shooters than I also had problems with it. It was a bit large for my hands, but not by much. I really enjoy shooting full sized 1911s, so I'm used to shooting guns with large (albeit single stack) grips.

If I get another sig it'll be a 239. I shot a rental 239 at a local range a while back and it was a sweet gun. It too was more accurate than my 226 right off the bat. I don't recall whether it was 9mm or .40.

[73mountaineer]

I've been shooting .40's for over a dozen years and have never, ever encountered any failures related to this. I've actually only had one jam w/ my carry gun due to new grips keeping the mag from fully seating - an easy fix.
Do you have a source for this statistic?

I second that. Caliber has zero to do with it if you have had that problem, IMO. Sorry, but no particular caliber is more prone to stovepipe type jams than another in a well-engineered firearm.

[Ulfherjar]

I am soon to purchase a Browning Hi-power in .40. My father has the 9mm and used it as a Deputy Sheriff for 25 years and still swears by it. Classic, manly, not overly large but stout (for clubbing once empty), and sweet to look at. As a military man I have played with many and still can't find a pistol I would use over the 1911 or Hi-power. John Browning was a genius, IMHO!

[ackvil]

I have a Glock 23 which is a great concealed weapon. [I must admit I am a Glock fanatic, also having models 17, 19, and 21]

[Jabo]

I just wandered in to give my worthless 2 cents to the OP. I only skimmed through the other posts....my apologies.

If you are truly in need of a home defense firearm, and a firearm for home defense ONLY..... There is no substitute for a short barrel 12 gauge semi-auto or pump shotgun with a chambered round sitting by/under your bed, IMO.

Since I have small children in the house, I had to settle for a handgun that I can keep in a nightstand gun vault. I chose the .45 ACP over the .40, because it has more of a 'push' than a 'snappy' firing response, which allows me to get back on target a little faster. For me, that choice was a Glock 30sf with the pearce grip extention that gives my pinky a place to rest.

EDIT: The OP strictly asked about a .40 handgun. My vote goes for the Glock :o) I just realized this thread started 5 months ago, but I'm sure there is great general info here that a lot of people could benefit from.

[eightysixCJ]

I have been looking for a nice .40 S&W handgun for home defense use. I plan on use 135 or 150 grain jacketed hollowpoint. Was at the local brick and mortar gun shop the other day and they recommended the Springfield XD and XDm line.

The others they had that I was also interested in were the

Beretta Px4 Storm
GLOCK 22
Smith & Wesson M&P .40
Springfield EMP - based off the 1911
Springfield XD/m line
Walther PPS 40

Right now the EMP and the Walther are basically ruled out for me since it is limited to 9+1 and 7+1 respectively. Would like to have at least 14+1 so the Sprinfield XD is out but the XDm is still in along with the Beretta, glock, S&W. I am already sure the die hard Glock fans will vote for the 22. I am looking for input on the other handguns on the list. Does anyone here own one of them and are they reliable?

All of these are proven performers and really it's all about what fits your hand (some offer various grips) and what trigger you like (and that can be fixed by a smith). I'm drawn to the SIG's, since your not carrying I'd go with a full size 220-226 or a Springfield/RRA/Less Bear 1911 since the idea is to get the intruder to know you mean business while not getting a shot off. Wall penetration/unintended targets are a real consideration. 9 or .40 makes a very bloody hole if you put it where you want. I would not think about how many rounds you have unless you are expecting a significant firefight. (if that is the case than get two or something else, or relocate) In any case, line up a lawyer and a plan and practice, practice, practice. A laser sight is a great addition.

Best of luck,

Tom

[k200817]

Sir, (I assume you are male, please correct me if in error), I don't know what potential uses you anticipate for your sidearm, but if 11+1 seems too limited, could I recommend you move to a place with fewer zombies? :laugh:

I know it's popular to have half a box of ammo in your weapon at any one time, but really, if the caliber is appropriate, and you do your job behind the trigger, do we need that many backup rounds? The average use of handguns not on target ranges is at absurdly close range...can you really imagine needing more than three rounds to settle a situation taken to such a level?

For my money, I'd rather have fewer rounds behind a solid trigger, with a hammer, than more bullets behind a "closed striker system" that will probably work, but if it doesn't requires a slide rack. Obviously, that opinion doesn't carry much farther than my keyboard...but, well, I would like to think it matters.

Then again, if mine was a popular opinion, I guess certain Austrian gun makers would be less widely carried...

As before, interested to hear what you go with.

Best,

Boomer

I am going to be a smartass here :w00t:. My old stubborn way of thinking is "Better to have it and not needed then to need it and not have it" :biggrin1:

[k200817]

I just wandered in to give my worthless 2 cents to the OP. I only skimmed through the other posts....my apologies.

If you are truly in need of a home defense firearm, and a firearm for home defense ONLY..... There is no substitute for a short barrel 12 gauge semi-auto or pump shotgun with a chambered round sitting by/under your bed, IMO.

Since I have small children in the house, I had to settle for a handgun that I can keep in a nightstand gun vault. I chose the .45 ACP over the .40, because it has more of a 'push' than a 'snappy' firing response, which allows me to get back on target a little faster. For me, that choice was a Glock 30sf with the pearce grip extention that gives my pinky a place to rest.

EDIT: The OP strictly asked about a .40 handgun. My vote goes for the Glock :o) I just realized this thread started 5 months ago, but I'm sure there is great general info here that a lot of people could benefit from.



Disclaimer: I understand that the OP asked about handguns. :001_smile

With that said, I echo Jabo's comment. For home deference, the shotgun is your best bet. Just the noise of wracking the shotgun is enough to scare the daylights out of any potential intruder(s) and send them packing.

Keeping that in mind, handguns is more portable and may be easier to handle if you have a SWMBO.

Bottom line: Whatever firearm you decide to get and despite what my SIG bellow says :lol:, Practice, Practice Practice and then MORE Practice with it at the range and make sure SWMBO does the same or for that matter, any other family member that may have access to the firearm and may need to use it some day to protect Life and Property.

And one last thought: Shotguns are versatile meaning that you can use a 00 buck shots and stop the intruder dead on the spot if immediate life threatening danger exists or use a less then lethal ammo if the intruder doesn't get the hint when he hears the wracking noise of the shotgun.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Jabo]

Just to beat a dead horse a little more (as I assume the OP has long since made a decision)...... I'm always curious about this claim of the 'racking of the pump shotgun' scaring the bodily excrement out of an intruder in your house. I for one am a 'round in the chamber' kind of guy. That goes for whether I'm using a shotgun, rifle or handgun for personal protection. That extra time and thought process involved in chambering a round could mean the difference between life & death if the need arises. My philosopy on this is also why I have to keep a handgun with a round in the chamber located in a nightstand safe rather than a shotgun with a round in the chamber located by the bed (i.e. to many little hands in the house to get ahold of that loaded shotgun).

On another self defense note: I recently added a container of pepper spray in my vehicle that my wife didn't need (i.e. it was an xtra). There are instances where I believe it would be my first line of defense in a vehicle scenario rather than breaking out the lethal force. I would much rather face an assault charge than a murder charge, depending on the conditions leading up to the event. When we are talking about home invation scenarios however, pepper spray doesn't hold a place in my line of defense. You would not hear any racking of a slide, just a click of the trigger.

[azmark]

I'm always curious about this claim of the 'racking of the pump shotgun' scaring the bodily excrement out of an intruder in your house. .

As a former officer and wife a current officer this is bull. Probably near a 100 times we've drawn down on someone who knows our guns are loaded and it can be a AR-15, M4, .45ACP or a .22 if the person has the intent to do harm they aren't going to care. If you have a gun keep it loaded.

[singlemalts]

I figure I'll toss my two cents in.

I'm a Sig Sauer Fan. I believe they make great guns. I currently have a Sig P6 from west Germany made in Oct 1981. It was a Police Issue with very few rounds fired. The Sig P6 (P225 in the US) is a 9mm 8+1. The P6 has no safety (i don't mind..I only point at things I want to shoot) and a decocking lever.

highly recommend the gun


http://imgur.com/MATsal.jpg

[fluffman86]

I know the OP already made a decision (the glock for those wondering), but I thought I would let you all know about youtube user nutnfancy. He's like mantic, but with guns and knives and stuff. :D Also, I don't currently own a pistol, but have shot many, just FYI.

Anyway, nutnfancy makes a really important point over and over again in his firearm videos: the best pistol is the one you actually carry. If you have two pistols, say a .32 and a .45, I don't think anyone would say that the .32 is better, would they? But if it comes down to not carrying the .45 because it's bulky and heavy and could show through clothes in sensitive situations (and who wants to constantly be reminded that a gun is tugging on you? None of us here want to be *reminded* that we just shaved with a burning sensation...), or *actually having* the .32, then the .32 is better.

Another point that he makes is that no good concealable pistol has *outstanding* "stopping power." If you want something that's going to obliterate a guy's face after firing through a 2x4, then you need a rifle, period.

"Stopping Power" is a myth, anyway. Other than a few very rare tests done on sheep or goats or something with different rounds, all most of us have to rely on is anecdotal evidence, which is wildly skewed in both directions. How's this for anecdotal evidence? Ask the cops: some doped up crack head pretty much has super-powers--they have trouble taking them down with multiple shots to the extremities with high-powered firearms. Or a cop I read about that has been shot on 2 separate occasions. Once, he was in the heat of a firefight, trying to rescue a buddy and was shot with a rifle. Another time, he was on patrol and got popped with a .22. Which put him on the ground faster and hurt more? The .22! Adrenaline makes all the difference.

That said, the best gun (as said before in this thread) is the one you can accurately use to put holes in people. And your most accurate gun is the one you shoot more often--modern manufacturing leaves such tiny tolerances that almost any gun is rarely going to jam.

So, for me, that means my pistol purchase (once I stop spending money on shaving :D ) will be a 9mm that is small enough to carry but big enough to control. Another reason for the 9mm is that the rounds are cheaper and it doesn't kick so hard, so you can get in more range time. Like we say here all the time: get a sampler pack. Go to your local range and try some out.

[ackvil]

I know the OP already made a decision (the glock for those wondering), but I thought I would let you all know about youtube user nutnfancy. He's like mantic, but with guns and knives and stuff. :D Also, I don't currently own a pistol, but have shot many, just FYI.

That said, the best gun (as said before in this thread) is the one you can accurately use to put holes in people. And your most accurate gun is the one you shoot more often--modern manufacturing leaves such tiny tolerances that almost any gun is rarely going to jam.

So, for me, that means my pistol purchase (once I stop spending money on shaving :D ) will be a 9mm that is small enough to carry but big enough to control. Another reason for the 9mm is that the rounds are cheaper and it doesn't kick so hard, so you can get in more range time. Like we say here all the time: get a sampler pack. Go to your local range and try some out.

You are correct: the best gun is one that you can shoot accurately. For home defense you are not going to shoot from 100 yards away. Usually, it will be less than 50' So the best thing is to go to a shooting range and try out the various pistols or revolvers and see which one suits you the best.

I know when I first started shooting I purchased a Smith and Wesson J frame revolver for carry purposes. However, when I shot the revolver it just about broke my hand - plus anything over 20 feet was a crap shoot. My next purchase was a SW 1911 .45 caliber. This was a gun that was recommended by the owner of a sporting goods store. It was expensive and heavy - but I never felt comfortable with it.

That's when I went to a shooting range and rented a number of different guns. I found that for accuracy, ease of cleaning, and weight, Glock was the pistol for me. Had I to do all over again, I would rent first at a shooting range and then decide what fits me best.

It's not that different from picking out a razor or blade. Some like a Slim, some a FB, some a Futur, etc. All the products may be good - but each person has different needs.

[noahpictures]

If you don't have a Glock, then you're missing something special in your life. Consistency and reliability make life better.

[azmark]

Consistency and reliability make life better.

Then get get a Sig:thumbup:

[Foskey]

Love my Springfield XDM in .40. I've put over 1K rounds through it with not as much as a single hiccup. I would absolutely trust my life with it should the time ever arise.

[Wishoot]

Of the ones you listed, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the Springfield XDM. I don't have one yet, but it's my next purchase. I love the fact that you can change the backstrap to fit your hand. The balance is perfect for me and recoil is marginal compared to other guns.

For whatever reason, I shoot this gun better than almost any other in my collection.

[evandood]

I would just like to offer a little advice regarding home protection. A good friend of mine is a sargeant in the NYPD, and I asked him what hand gun I should purchase for protection. His answer was none, buy a shotgun. His reasoning is that a shotguns primary use is for hunting or trap shooting and you can potentially ward off a problem if you do have to shoot an intruder. I do know that I live in NY, and the laws favor the criminal here, so what I offer for advice might not work in more gun neutral states. Another reason for the shotgun, was even half asleep, a shotgun is hard to miss with.

[Jwolf24601]

I would just like to offer a little advice regarding home protection. A good friend of mine is a sargeant in the NYPD, and I asked him what hand gun I should purchase for protection. His answer was none, buy a shotgun. His reasoning is that a shotguns primary use is for hunting or trap shooting and you can potentially ward off a problem if you do have to shoot an intruder. I do know that I live in NY, and the laws favor the criminal here, so what I offer for advice might not work in more gun neutral states. Another reason for the shotgun, was even half asleep, a shotgun is hard to miss with.

Shotgun is the best home defense weapon in my opinion. The remington 870 being the best shotgun for said task. It is very reliable, easy to maintain and vast accessories. The main reason I would recommend it though is the sound of it being cocked is usually enough to send an intruder running, very distinct and well known sound. Everyone has heard it in movies and knows what it means.

I would much prefer to not have to shoot anyone.

[bandit82ta]

I would just like to offer a little advice regarding home protection. A good friend of mine is a sargeant in the NYPD, and I asked him what hand gun I should purchase for protection. His answer was none, buy a shotgun. His reasoning is that a shotguns primary use is for hunting or trap shooting and you can potentially ward off a problem if you do have to shoot an intruder. I do know that I live in NY, and the laws favor the criminal here, so what I offer for advice might not work in more gun neutral states. Another reason for the shotgun, was even half asleep, a shotgun is hard to miss with.

To be frank you really need to evaluate your style of dwelling. If its close confines and tight corners a pistol with a tac light +laser with training would be your best bet. If you have long open hallways and open space a 870 or 500 shotgun would be well used. however DO NOT USE BIRD SHOT. It will only serve to piss off whoever you are opposing. Buckshot and preferably 00. If your really gonna fire you must be in fear of your life/safetly.

I recommend in the pistol area a Springfield Armory XD or a Glock. Both are very reliable. I own one of each and am starting to prefer my Glock due to how it fits my hand and shoots. Get somewhere you can at least hold your options and see what you think, better yet goto a range and rent them if possible.

[RichmondR]

A shotgun makes some sense in that you dont have to be quite as accurate and because it puts more lead on the target ... a 12 gauge with 00 shot is almost the equivalent of eight .32 caliber projectiles. But the spread at 14 feet distance is somewhere between 4 - 6 inches or so depending on the choke (the less the better for home defense), so you still need to aim pretty carefully.

The down side is if you are in close quarters or have to move quickly, or if you have to select between close targets (for instance, an intruder bending over to pick up a child), a handgun is going to be needed IMO. My choice is a Sig P226 9mm with night sights and a mounted light/laser loaded with Hornady Critical Defense rounds.

As to original poster question, my backup is a H&K P2000SK in .40 S&W. Its good for CC and very accurate for its size.

[nickelsig229]

The one thing I learned about guns over the past 15 years is that they are like politics. Everyone has their pic for what the best is.

If you pick from among the major manufacturers your likely to have a quality pistol. It really comes down to the grip in your hand, and how well you shoot the particular pistol and what ammo you choose.

Eventually, you'll buy another and another then another switching sizes, calibers, triggers, accessories and so forth. No one gun is perfect, if it was, there wouldn't be so many brands, so many models, and so many subversions.

[Don Barbiere]

Then get get a Sig:thumbup:

I agree, P226 in 9 mm and .40S&W is an excellent gun! Thats my gun of choice!

[Shaving Panda]

Short-barreled cylinder choke pump-action shotgun is probably the best option for home defense (say a Remington 870), and if equipped with a rifled slug barrel you will get wide shot dispersion at close quarters conditions with buckshot. If loaded with buck-and-ball, you could have the option of a reasonably accurate projectile at long range, while still maintaining a very good hit rate at short range (buck-and-ball is usually a 3/4oz slug followed by six 00 buckshot).

If portability/concealability is a big priority, a Taurus Judge revolver would fit the bill, loaded with the buckshot .410 shotshells (three 00 buckshot).

Best option is any preventative measures you can take in order to not need a weapon, ever.

Just my 2c.

[Wishoot]

Or just get a big dog that doesn't sleep well.