View Full Version : Introduction to wine
Lynchmeister
02-07-2007, 09:18 AM
Gentlemen-
My fiancee and I are starting to explore the world of wines. This is a bit intimidating for us as I'm a "beer" guy and she's more of a (insert fruity malt-beverage marketed toward club-goers here) drinker. We also both have a nice appreciation for vodkas.
With that said, we started with the newbie friendly white zin and have since expanded into rieslings and pinot grigio. Aside from that though, do any of you have any thoughts as to the next logical step of the progression? Reds, at least the ones we've tried up to this point (sorry don't know which ones), are still a little out of reach for us. High tannin content and what not... It is a goal of ours, though.
I've been reading the wine and spirit posts with much fascination. You guys are a great resource. :thumbup:
Dennis
02-07-2007, 09:27 AM
One thing you can do is make a trip to a/several wineries. Depending on the winery, what they have may not be the best or most interesting representation of the grape or blend, but their whole house of wines is available for tasting with usually very knowledgeable associates to give you any information you want. I had a lot of fun at some small wineries that were not that busy and they gave you loads of time and information and tastings.
Dennis
chop-chop
02-07-2007, 09:50 AM
I was a late-bloomer when it came to appreciating wines. Well, not particularly late... but, into my mid-twenties.
What I would suggest is planning meals around your wine selections.. or, at the very least, appetizers. Most wines are best when enjoyed this way. Few, in my opinion, are great "stand-alone" wines. The one exception that I've found is Cabernet Sauvignon.
There are many very fine wines that are available in the $15.00 - $20.00 range. In fact, most "table" wines are often the best for every day... and, they are what you'll tend to find in most homes where wine is consumed with nearly every meal, except breakfast.
It's also nice to sample wines from around the world, to try to find something that really works for you. Of course, Mother Nature plays a huge role in wine production.... thus the term "a good year". One of my very favorite sparkling wines (aka as champagne, but produced outside of Champagne, France... which is the only "true" champagne.) is produced in Spain.
One more thought... your choice of wine glass should match your wine selection.
Have fun with it!
chop-chop
Lynchmeister
02-07-2007, 11:12 AM
I'm a firm believer in matching the beverage type to the glass. As a drinker of good beer, I know that the size and shape of the glassware has tremendous effect on the beer. You wouldn't drink a fine ale out of the bottle. You want to pour it into a pint and let it breathe. The same goes for a nice pilsner or weißbier. They also require the appropriate glass. To say the same for wine varieties makes all the sense in the world.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Keep it coming!
TimmyBoston
02-07-2007, 12:04 PM
See if some of the liquor stores in your area have wine tastings. This could give you an opportunity to try several things for just a couple dollars or even free. Many in my area has wine tastings every Saturday Afternoon.
A good, reliable white that's inexpensive and widely availabe (I think they produce around two million cases) is Lindeman's Bin 65 Chardonnay, from down under.
It's properly made and not over oaked, and should set you back all of $6. A perennial Parker best buy, it's a no brainer for folks just starting out.
Explore by drinking!! It's as enjoyable as it sounds.
It's hard to recommend specific wines because there is so much selection that there's a really good chance that Chateau X that I love you can't find where you live.
For whites, look for sauvignon blanc, gewurztraminer, and chardonnay next. Try them from all over the world, and see which country's style you like best.
With reds, you can get a BIG difference in tannin content. For now, look for the fresh & fruity 'early drinkers' rather than the tannic monsters ... maybe Beaujolais or Valpolicella ... and be sure to have them with food, which makes a world of difference.
I'm a firm believer in matching the beverage type to the glass. As a drinker of good beer, I know that the size and shape of the glassware has tremendous effect on the beer. You wouldn't drink a fine ale out of the bottle. You want to pour it into a pint and let it breathe. The same goes for a nice pilsner or weißbier. They also require the appropriate glass. To say the same for wine varieties makes all the sense in the world.
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Keep it coming!
A tulip-shaped glass, with the 'bowl' taller than it is wide and curved together at the top, is a good all-rounder. Fill it only one-third full, to leave room to swirl the wine around.
If you really get into stemware, check out the great stuff from Reidel.
MacArthur Mike
02-08-2007, 06:04 AM
Move up to some Rieslings...very reasonably priced and a great wine. You can get either drier or sweeter. I tend to prefer ones on the sweeter side, but that is just me.
Another logical progression to wines is to move on to actual Zinfandel and drop the white zin which is usually pretty poor in quality. Zinfandel is a "big" wine. It is jammy, fruity and thicker on the palate. Notes of cherry, plum, tobacco, chocolate.
Lynchmeister
02-08-2007, 12:57 PM
Great feedback guys! Doc4, your advice to explore by drinking is great advice. I guess I'm just hesitant to plop down cash on something I know nothing about, only to be disappointed and dump it down the drain. Then again, nothing ventured, nothing gained!
Our current favorite is definately Riesling. We initially looked for the fruitier ones, but now are definately appreciating the complexities of the drier ones. I take that to be "progress," hehe.
As a sub-question, on the different rieslings we have, I'm seeing "kabinett," "spätlese," and "auslese" on the different labels. Does anyone know what these refer to?
Thanks for all your replies!
Great feedback guys! Doc4, your advice to explore by drinking is great advice. I guess I'm just hesitant to plop down cash on something I know nothing about, only to be disappointed and dump it down the drain. Then again, nothing ventured, nothing gained!
Our current favorite is definately Riesling. We initially looked for the fruitier ones, but now are definately appreciating the complexities of the drier ones. I take that to be "progress," hehe.
As a sub-question, on the different rieslings we have, I'm seeing "kabinett," "spätlese," and "auslese" on the different labels. Does anyone know what these refer to?
Thanks for all your replies!
Those german terms relate to the sugar content of the wine ... which is generally associated in Germany with quality (more sugar better wine, right up to icewine. But don't let that fool you, the dry kabinett can be superb.)
You could benefit from pickiing up Hugh Johnston's Pocket Encyclopedia of Wine, which will help decode these terms &c &c &c. It's produced every year with updates for the recent vintage(s), but you don't have to get each year's one. It'll probably cost about $15, and is small enough to carry in a pocket to the liquor store!
Frank7580
02-09-2007, 10:04 AM
Howdy Lynch,
When you do feel comfortable trying some of the reds I would suggest a moderately priced Pinot Noir. These are typically very smooth with very little tannin presence. Something in the $10 - $12 range should be safe. Later, when you develop flavor & vineyard preferences you can find something good for even less money.
I'd also suggest not drinking any wines (but especially the reds) when they are too cold. Think about this as being similar to a good Belgian beer or strong stout... as the beverage warms a lot more flavors appear. It's the same with wines.
Have a great weekend!
Lynchmeister
02-09-2007, 12:33 PM
Doc, thank you for that explanation. That will help us a lot!
Frank, I was aware that reds should be served "warmer," and I use the term loosely, but would you say that drinking a white that is right out of the fridge is too "chilled?" Your analogy to the beers makes perfect sense.
Frank7580
02-12-2007, 08:50 AM
Hi Lynch,
Sorry for the late reply... I'm rarely online over the weekend.
would you say that drinking a white that is right out of the fridge is too "chilled?"
It really boils down to personal preference. IMO, right out of the fridge may be more "refreshing" but that is hardly the reason to drink wine in the first place.
I think that you'll be able to discern more flavors if the white is just a bit above fridge temps. (but whether or not you like those flavors... only experience can answer)
kozulich
02-12-2007, 12:27 PM
Gentlemen-
With that said, we started with the newbie friendly white zin and have since expanded into rieslings and pinot grigio. Aside from that though, do any of you have any thoughts as to the next logical step of the progression? Reds, at least the ones we've tried up to this point (sorry don't know which ones), are still a little out of reach for us. High tannin content and what not... It is a goal of ours, though.
A very nice progression from riesling would be gewuerztraminer (Fetzer's is good yet affordable). Its a bit more spicy and complex. Notice especially how you will be able to taste a good gewuerz on every part of your tongue. Sweet at the tip, sour at the sides, and bitter in the back.
A good entry level red would be a decent Chianti. Not much oak there, and fruity enough for a beginner to appreciate, yet it does have some of the drier complexity found in many reds
PeteW
02-12-2007, 08:38 PM
A good easy drinking Red wine would be a Banfi - Chianti Classico Riserva
For lighter and fruitier wine I would recommend a Riesling Auslese
Here are some simple, pedestrian selections you should have no trouble finding at the local quicky mart.
A few more to enjoy with hot dogs and fries, while watching wrestling.
A few more to enjoy with hot dogs and fries, while watching wrestling.
You devil, how dare you blasphemize these sacred classics......:cursing:
(and you owe me a new keyboard because it's soaking wet of saliva......)
You devil, how dare you blasphemize these sacred classics......:cursing:
(and you owe me a new keyboard because it's soaking wet of saliva......)
Of course, there's more to life than just Bordeaux.
Two truly great wines on the ends, and a cheapie to fill in the middle. (Seriously, the Petrus is no match for the others.)
And I've always felt that a good meal should include a white, a red, and a dessert wine.
I'll stop, for now. :c18:
tim8557
02-13-2007, 08:47 AM
Twisted sense of humor there, Ouch. The poor guy will have a heart attack when he carries one of those babies to the register to pay.
You have to know what the good stuff tastes like. It makes purchasing inexpensive wine much, much easier.
tim8557
02-13-2007, 09:16 AM
My foray into wines started in the 70's when as a self professed beer guy I found myself in a position requiring an extensive knowledge of wines.
For most people just starting with wine, any of Ouch's selections will have you pitching it in disgust. They are tremendous wines, just very big and dry.
Read all that you can and start with German Whites. They are a little sweeter, and lower in alcohol. Drink the Moselle, the German generally in the green bottles.
As you become more accustomed, you'll naturally start progressing to the drier wines finishing up with great California Cabernets, Merlots and Pinot Noirs from Oregon. The benchmarks have always been the French Bordeaux and Burgundies but the Left Coast does very well in this country.
Good luck and enjoy it before the liberals start a movement to banish alcohol next.
Doc, thank you for that explanation. That will help us a lot!
Frank, I was aware that reds should be served "warmer," and I use the term loosely, but would you say that drinking a white that is right out of the fridge is too "chilled?" Your analogy to the beers makes perfect sense.
For reds, think 'room temperature' ... the way it was before central heating (global warming ... the myth or reality debate continues, but no one can argue that Room Temperature has gone up over the last 100 years!!); I'd be thinking RT is about 65 or so.
For whites, it depends on the particular type of wine. A 'crisp' germanic wine like the ones you've been drinking should be cooler than, say, a chardonnay. For some, fridge temp is about right, but too cool for others.
Check the Hugh Johnston book I mentioned for temperature charts for both reds and whites.
I'll stop, for now. :c18:
More! More!
For most people just starting with wine, any of Ouch's selections will have you pitching it in disgust. They are tremendous wines, just very big and dry.
I get your point, but I don't think that I would go quite so far. Anyone should be able to tell the difference between an average wine and a great one. In fact, if you try an '82 Leoville Las Cases, for example, and don't like it, I would suggest you find another hobby. :lol:
More! More!
Oui, encore plus!!! Ain't seen nothing yet....:biggrin:
Ou sont le Chateaux d'Yquem, La Romanee-Conti et le Chateau Cheval Blanc......:tongue_sm
kozulich
02-14-2007, 07:09 AM
I get your point, but I don't think that I would go quite so far. Anyone should be able to tell the difference between an average wine and a great one. In fact, if you try an '82 Leoville Las Cases, for example, and don't like it, I would suggest you find another hobby. :lol:
I'm not 100% sure I would agree, probably a YMMV situation. I do think many people have to work up to the big tannic wines. I enjoy wines today that I would have (and probably did) pour down the sink in disgust 10 years ago. Some people can probably appreciate these great wines immediately. As for me, I had to develop my palate slowly.
Lynch:
I highly recommend getting a copy of the 'Wine Bible' by Karen MacNeil.
Lynch:
I highly recommend getting a copy of the 'Wine Bible' by Karen MacNeil.
I was going to recommend a book too--Wine for Dummies--then I checked Amazon and you can get both the Wine Bible and Wine for Dummies for 28 dollars and pocket change!
Lynchmeister
02-15-2007, 01:34 PM
Ouch-
Your little pictorial had me going until I saw the Petrus. I don't claim to know a lot about wine, but isn't that like a $2000 bottle?
As always, your "unique" sense of humor kills me everytime!
Ouch-
Your little pictorial had me going until I saw the Petrus. I don't claim to know a lot about wine, but isn't that like a $2000 bottle?
As always, your "unique" sense of humor kills me everytime!
The '88 Petrus would probably fetch somewhere in the nieghborhood for $500-$800. It's probably the third best Petrus of the 80's, after the '82 and '89, but it's not worth anywhere near that amount. The two flanking wines, the '82 Ch. Pichon Lalande and the '82 Ch. Leoville Las Cases, go for slightly less, but they may be the two very best wines of that storied vintage. I prefer them to the Mouton, Margaux, and Cheval of that year, all of which are priced ridiculously at this point in time.
One more thing, Cory- I'm not kidding when I say wine need not be expensive to be good. One of my favorites is Jorge Ordonez' Borgia, which usually garners 87-89 points from Parker. It can be had for a whopping $4.:thumbup:
Lynchmeister
02-16-2007, 08:37 AM
Ouch (...come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever caught your first name),
Sound advice! I remember someone saying that the best of anything is that which you enjoy the most.
I'm not 100% sure I would agree, probably a YMMV situation. I do think many people have to work up to the big tannic wines. I enjoy wines today that I would have (and probably did) pour down the sink in disgust 10 years ago. Some people can probably appreciate these great wines immediately. As for me, I had to develop my palate slowly.
One of the reasons for that phenomenon is that a great wine has a great underlying tannic structure. It takes many years (or decades) for those tannins to soften enough to render the wine enjoyable. Oftentimes the fruit fades before this occurs, in which case the wine will never show well.
The trouble is, when you go to a wine store to, say, purchase a first growth Bordeaux, they will likely only stock the current releases, which are far too young to drink. If you taste a properly aged claret, no matter how "big" it is, it will be very approachable.
Ouch (...come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever caught your first name),
Sound advice! I remember someone saying that the best of anything is that which you enjoy the most.
The name's Jay.
Always remember that you are the world's leading authority on your own opinion. The best wine is whatever you say is the best. Once you recognize the depth (and limits) of your own palate, tasting wine is a snap. To me, nothing is more satisfying that finding a $20 bottle that is better than a big buck legend.
kennethw
02-16-2007, 10:26 AM
Always remember that you are the world's leading authority on your own opinion..
Here here. You'll even find yourself trying things that other people swear to be the nectar of the gods, and feel like spitting it out.
For example, I don't get along with 90% of the Cabernet Sauvignon that I've had. Of course, the stuff I can tolerate is the expensive stuff. :closedeye
The best education I've had has been many trips to Sonoma and Napa, with lots (lots) of tasting. One thing to keep in mind is that things can change greatly by year, so even when you find something that you like, you can't expect the 2004 to be the same as the 2005. One of our everyday chardonnay choices, Chateau St Jean, has just disappointed us with an 05 bottle.
Ouch, you gotta stop manhandling those bottles just to gloat! :001_tt1:
Here here. You'll even find yourself trying things that other people swear to be the nectar of the gods, and feel like spitting it out.
For example, I don't get along with 90% of the Cabernet Sauvignon that I've had. Of course, the stuff I can tolerate is the expensive stuff. :closedeye
:001_tt1:
For example, I'm rather fond of Retsina, a greek white wine with the added flavour of pine resin (resin ... retsina ... see the connection?) Most people assocaite this with Pine Sol in an unpleasant sort of way. Fair enough, but for me personally, there's no better companion to Greek food (loke dolmades ... yummy!!)
Remember that wine is meant to be drunk with food, and you usually get good matches when you pair up the local food and wine. So if you like italian food, try italian wine with it, &c.
Jay,
Still waiting for the other two to show up:biggrin:
Com'on now...been waiting too long now.....
Peter
Ginns
03-01-2007, 07:59 AM
Ouch,
I've been a wine lover since a young age. I'm currently in my fourth year BSc Oenology and Viticulture. I've worked with three seperate wineries, everywhere from in the vines to helping make the wines, to tasting with the winemakers to decide what blendings should be done. I know a bit about wine. Not a tremendous amount, but a fair bit. I have given my life to the vine.
When I die, I will look back over my life and will not have drank half that number of coveted and rare wines, certainly not in my own home.
A bizarre emotion came over me seeing those photos. A tragic happiness. Those are not just wines. They are people's dreams, they are works of art people have given their lives to create, and have taken years to come into their own. It is an artist's work, and a living piece of history. They are so rare and so few can experience them, we sense an injustice. We would decree that no more of them be produced, if it were not even more of a tragedy to let beauty of their caliber fall from our species. Once the cork is popped, an hour or so of bliss, and they are gone forever. May you enjoy them in good health, with friends, and see them through an end as graceful as their creation.
G
Ouch,
A bizarre emotion came over me seeing those photos. A tragic happiness. Those are not just wines. They are people's dreams, they are works of art people have given their lives to create, and have taken years to come into their own. It is an artist's work, and a living piece of history. They are so rare and so few can experience them, we sense an injustice. We would decree that no more of them be produced, if it were not even more of a tragedy to let beauty of their caliber fall from our species. Once the cork is popped, an hour or so of bliss, and they are gone forever. May you enjoy them in good health, with friends, and see them through an end as graceful as their creation.
G
That's the tragic beauty of wine! These unique masterpieces are made, but unlike a painting, sculpture or symphony, if they are not drunk, then they eventually die alone in the bottle. A thousand years from now people can still hear Beethoven's 9th, can still go see the Mona Lisa, but the 1945 claret will be long gone whether we drink it or not ... this is one art we cannot preserve forever, no matter how much we want to. Like good friends, they are here for us, but eventually will be gone forever!
Enjoy them in good health, and be glad for good friends, bottled or otherwise.
The last two posts by Ginns and Doc4 are two of the best posts I've read on this or any other site. Thank you both for your terrific points.
Wine is certainly an art, but it's an ice sculpture, doomed to death from its inception. In this regard, it is reminiscent of our own plight, as we start dying the moment we're born.
So what to do? Drinking a wine too young is akin to infanticide, and letting one fade into history, unappreciated, is an equally appalling thought.
The way we honor a great wine is by enjoying it, and remembering it long after it's gone.
This thread has got me to thinking about some of the good ones I've tried. Many are surprising- there were some very big names that disappointed, and some unknowns that were mindblowing. In the last ten years, these were the three best wines I recall:
'90 Ch. La Conseillante, Pomerol, purchased for $60.
'90 Domaine du Pégaü, Châteauneuf-du-Pape, purchased for $15
'90 Müller-Catoir, Haardter Manderling, Scheurebe Spätlese, purchased for $16
Just my opinion, of course.
boboakalfb
03-01-2007, 03:00 PM
This thread has got me to thinking about some of the good ones I've tried. Many are surprising- there were some very big names that disappointed, and some unknowns that were mindblowing. In the last ten years, these were the three best wines I recall:
'90 Ch. La Conseillante, Pomerol, purchased for $60.
'90 Domaine du Pégaü, Châteauneuf-du-Pape, purchased for $15
'90 Müller-Catoir, Haardter Manderling, Scheurebe Spätlese, purchased for $16
Just my opinion, of course.
I found the perfect glasses for your Mondavi Bottle...it is next to a regular bottle to show you the size. I figure we could get about 8 glasses from the bottle. :thumbup:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l212/boboakalfb/wine.jpg
That's funny, Bob, but it's hard to tell if the glass is a giant or if it's just the perspective.
The Mondavi is 6 litres, so eight glasses would each have to hold 750ml, or a full bottle.:001_tt1:
boboakalfb
03-01-2007, 04:41 PM
That's funny, Bob, but it's hard to tell if the glass is a giant or if it's just the perspective.
The Mondavi is 6 litres, so eight glasses would each have to hold 750ml, or a full bottle.:001_tt1:
Here (http://www.hammacher.com/publish/70375.asp?source=CJ&cm_ven=CJ&cm_pla=1492714&cm_ite=Full-Bottle+Wine+Glass&cm_cat=1414665) it is. It is being touted as being able to hold a whole 750 ml bottle...so my speculation was correct on it being a 6 Litre Bottle. I have a couple of the Mondavi Reserves from 1992 and 1993. They are only the 750 ml versions though.
That's very reasonable for a hand blown glass that size.
Lynchmeister
08-17-2007, 07:01 PM
Hey guys,
My wife and I have found that we really do enjoy the Gewurtztraminer and now she is looking for the next step in white wines. She enjoys the fruity taste but is looking for something a little less fruity. She is really trying to take this slow so that she can really appreciate wine and I want to get her something nice. Would you guys suggest a Sauvignon blanc or Chardonnay next, one over the other? I also found that she likes these varieties from the Fetzer winery, for what that's worth. Thanks.
Nice to see this thread get resurrected- brings back some nice memories.
For whites, I would suggest some of the lovely wines of the Loire, as well as those of Alsace and Germany. Try some riesling and chenin blanc, a cap it off with a nice, inexpensive dessert wine- a muscat de beaumes des venise.
castlecraver
08-17-2007, 07:40 PM
Something you may not know about me is that I'm a bit of a wine snob. I've been a connoisseur for about three days now, and I think it's going pretty well. I've sampled and purchased several ounces of real actual wine, and not the kind that comes in a box, the real kind that comes in a bottle and you have to use a drill a little hole in the top of the wooden thingy to pour the stuff out. I think that's why some people say their wine as a "woody" flavor sometimes. This is all in my ongoing attempt to make myself feel more attractive to the opposite sex, without actually being more attractive. I usually feel most attractive after I've drank a lot of wine, even though the wine and vomit stains on my clothes are pretty gross. So now, I shall impart to you the wisdom of several long careful days of studying the wine section at Giant Eagle.
Selecting your color: Remember, opposites attract. Red wine is good with White Castles, white wine is good with Red Bull. White wine might look yellow in the bottle, but believe me, just like Eminem, it might not know it or act like it, but it's really white. That pink stuff isn't good for jack shit.
Selecting your flavor: This is where it starts to get complicated. Some wines are dryer than others and others are sweeter. If you don't speak French, it's hard to tell what's what. If you do speak French, you're a pinko commie. So yeah, I can't tell the difference anyway after I've had a few, so just go with whatever's cheapest. It's usually on the bottom of the shelf.
Drinking your wine: At mass, they always served us wine out of these cool gold cups with a bunch of God stuff all over them. I want one. Wouldn't it kick ass to find the holy grail and drink wine out of it, just to say you did? You can also drink wine straight from the bottle, or with that cool berry blue bendy straw you got out of the Cap'n Crunch Box. Cap'n Crunch is cool. It's about time someone made him a damn admiral already.
Savoring your wine: 3 words -- Chug, chug, chug.
Could somebody please make the above post a sticky?
:a14: :a14: :a14: :ouch1:
letterk
08-17-2007, 09:11 PM
:lol:
rickw
08-17-2007, 09:21 PM
I keep over a hundred bottles around the house but nothing that would be in the class of the bottles that Ouch has displayed.
The Italians have been making wine for a couple of thousand years. Even the inexpensive Italian wines are good. If they aren't, the winery closes very quickly.
I live about thirty minutes from the closest winery. The Santa Ynez Valley of Santa Barbara County is maybe a two hour drive. In this area are Andrew Murry, Firestone, and Fess Parker. All good wineries. Shoestring is a real surprise. I marvel that some of the others stay in business. I've heard people raving about how good the wine was and I was dumping it after one sip. It was so course that it would have been better if they let it turn and used it on a salad.
TimmyBoston
08-18-2007, 03:12 AM
That pink stuff isn't good for jack shit.
Pat, that quote has made it to my all time list. :thumbup1:
I despise White Zinfandel with a passion. Just seeing someone drinking it I have to constantly fight the urge to resist smashing the bottle against the side of the head. :mad5:
There's a reason for that phenomenon, Tim. People are intimidated by wine, and while the industry may give lip service to making it user friendly, in reality it enjoys the haughty status of its product. The poor, overwhelmed consumer will gravitate toward wines that are readily available, easy to pronounce (if you can say Chambolle-Musigny Les Amoureuses, or Flagey-Echezeaux, you should get the bottle for free, or at least command the attention of the sommelier), and, most importantly, what everyone else is drinking. People seem to enjoy saying the words "chardonnay" or "merlot" (although I've heard some pretty unexpected bastardizations of those terms), and it is a fact that the easiest Burgundy to sell is Beaune (just say bone), particularly to well heeled Asians who may really want to buy a Puligny-Montrachet Caillerets, but say f' it.
But as to why so many folks are drinking white zin, well, ya got me.:confused:
castlecraver
08-18-2007, 08:18 AM
But as to why so many folks are drinking white zin, well, ya got me.:confused:
Honestly, I think it's the same reason people drink Miller/Bud/Coors Light whenever possible. Its cheap, plentiful, unintimidating and appealing to the most unrefined of pallates. It takes no effort or understanding, very little familiarity with the complexities of wine tasting, and regardless of your meal pairing, couldn't possibly be made any worse than it already is.
Phog Allen
08-18-2007, 09:10 AM
At the risk of sounding foolish, I might add that you should try some fortified dessert wines. I like Port but have so little experience that I hesitate to suggest specific brands lest I give Ouch the ammo he needs for a custom title. I came close with the widow and orphan robbing lawyer post.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Here it goes anyway. A nice, cheap tawny Port from Australia. It is called Benjamin's Tawny Port. Yes I know, it isn't really Port unless it is made in Portugal. However, this $11 beauty from Oz is a dandy for Port newbies like me. I like the tawny ports more than the late bottled vintage I have tried. I do not have the experience yet to pony up for something like Ouch's 1983 Taylor Fladgate Vintage Port. This is a regret of mine since in the late 80's I could have bought a number of bottles of this for less than $40 apiece at a local wine merchant and did not know what I was looking at. Anyroad, the tawnies are barrel aged for 10, 20, and 30 years. I like them because they have a soft, buttery palate. Many times with a toffee, chocolate, or nutty flavour. Truly a dessert wine. The LBVs have been a bit harsh to my palate and this is likely do to being so young. The LBVs and the Vintage ports are a deep midnight/purple colour with big and fruity flavours since they go into the bottles young and do not age in the oak for long. I do not really know what a good age is for LBV consumption but would like to understand this because I really like fortified wines. The Sherries and Madeira interest me as well. Someone suggested Italian wines and from the few I've tried(don't ask the names I've long forgotten)they were quite nice. I also agree with the idea that table wine is the way to go for starting out. I am one of those that approaches wine and other ferments as food first. They should compliment the meal you are eating. I just wish I knew more about it.
Regards,Todd
castlecraver
08-18-2007, 09:21 AM
At the risk of sounding foolish, I might add that you should try some fortified dessert wines.
"What's the word...?" :wink2:
Phog Allen
08-18-2007, 10:59 AM
Well Pat, not one word but just the suggestion of a newb trying a fortified wine. An Australian "Port" to boot! You never know what will tickle Ouch's funny bone.
Regards, Todd
I like Port but have so little experience that I hesitate to suggest specific brands lest I give Ouch the ammo he needs for a custom title.
Keep in mind that I already had the custom title of Ch. d'Ick.
Your advice is spot on, and I think that dessert wines are some of the most enjoyable wines you'll ever find. They also help you develop a taste for wines that aren't bone dry. When I starting sampling dessert wines, I found that I was better able to appreciate the slightly sweeter wines of Germany, as well as the Loire.
A good, inexpensive one to try would be a Muscat des Beaumes de Venise (I like Domaine de Durban). The fermentation is stopped by the addition of brandy, which leaves residual sugar in the wine. They are crisp and refreshing, with hints of rose petal and honey over an underpinning of crushed orange blossom. Another would be one of several of the Aussie dessert wines from Chambers- amazing value for the money.
TimmyBoston
08-18-2007, 10:55 PM
Keep in mind that I already had the custom title of Ch. d'Ick.
That one paired with Dr. Evil, still my favorite by far and I believe the most fitting. :badger:
That one paired with Dr. Evil, still my favorite by far and I believe the most fitting. :badger:
Even better than some of the Mrs. Ouch avatars? Surely you jest. :lol:
Hey guys,
My wife and I have found that we really do enjoy the Gewurtztraminer and now she is looking for the next step in white wines. She enjoys the fruity taste but is looking for something a little less fruity. She is really trying to take this slow so that she can really appreciate wine and I want to get her something nice. Would you guys suggest a Sauvignon blanc or Chardonnay next, one over the other? I also found that she likes these varieties from the Fetzer winery, for what that's worth. Thanks.
It depends very much on your local wine stores. For about a year my friends and I used to predominantly get this really good Malvasia from spain ...under $6!
You may find it interesting to try the same wine from two different regions. For example chardonnay from california and chablis (expensive, but may be the person at the store can recommend similar one from one of the nearby regions). the summer is almost over, but not too late for a vouvray on a lazy afternoon.
Also I thought wine for dummies is actually pretty good book that gives a general idea of what and where, but the only way is to taste them.
And I find almost always useful to ask the people in the store - after all they taste the wines they carry and can give you much more specific information of what you can expect.
v v v v v v v
Something you may not know about me is that I'm a bit of a wine snob. I've been a connoisseur for about three days now, and I think it's going pretty well. I've sampled and purchased several ounces of real actual wine, and not the kind that comes in a box, the real kind that comes in a bottle and you have to use a drill a little hole in the top of the wooden thingy to pour the stuff out. I think that's why some people say their wine as a "woody" flavor sometimes. This is all in my ongoing attempt to make myself feel more attractive to the opposite sex, without actually being more attractive. I usually feel most attractive after I've drank a lot of wine, even though the wine and vomit stains on my clothes are pretty gross. So now, I shall impart to you the wisdom of several long careful days of studying the wine section at Giant Eagle.
Selecting your color: Remember, opposites attract. Red wine is good with White Castles, white wine is good with Red Bull. White wine might look yellow in the bottle, but believe me, just like Eminem, it might not know it or act like it, but it's really white. That pink stuff isn't good for jack shit.
Selecting your flavor: This is where it starts to get complicated. Some wines are dryer than others and others are sweeter. If you don't speak French, it's hard to tell what's what. If you do speak French, you're a pinko commie. So yeah, I can't tell the difference anyway after I've had a few, so just go with whatever's cheapest. It's usually on the bottom of the shelf.
Drinking your wine: At mass, they always served us wine out of these cool gold cups with a bunch of God stuff all over them. I want one. Wouldn't it kick ass to find the holy grail and drink wine out of it, just to say you did? You can also drink wine straight from the bottle, or with that cool berry blue bendy straw you got out of the Cap'n Crunch Box. Cap'n Crunch is cool. It's about time someone made him a damn admiral already.
Savoring your wine: 3 words -- Chug, chug, chug.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
I can't stop laughing! :a54:
rickw
08-19-2007, 08:16 AM
Lynchmeister,
If you or your wife likes grapefruit, try a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.
Lynchmeister
08-19-2007, 03:24 PM
That one paired with Dr. Evil, still my favorite by far and I believe the most fitting. :badger:
Tim - Props on keeping the battle cry alive! :wink:
The Italians have been making wine for a couple of thousand years. Even the inexpensive Italian wines are good. If they aren't, the winery closes very quickly.
... or they sell it to the Americans, most of whom are usually drinking White Zin and think that 'this fancy stuff from Italy' is 'some pretty high-class $h!t' simply because it says 'Italy' and it tastes different than the white zin.
An interesting twist on the 'pearls before swine' theme ... :eek:
(Ditto for Canadians, I'm afraid to say ... :001_unsur )
Lynchmeister,
If you or your wife likes grapefruit, try a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.
That is some nice stuff, BTW.
Oh, and where exactly IS Mrs. Ouch? Has she figured out just how juvenile we lads are and bailed permanently, or does she just have some freshly painted walls that need close watching? :001_rolle
Lynchmeister
08-20-2007, 04:46 PM
Yeah, I think a Sauvignon blanc might be on the horizon...
rickw
08-20-2007, 04:51 PM
I'd like to mention that screw tops no longer have to represent cheap wine. Good corks are getting harder to get. One winery, in California, mentioned that about 10% of their spoilage is due to bad corks. When I was last there, they were in the process of changing over to screw top bottles.
I'd like to mention that screw tops no longer have to represent cheap wine. Good corks are getting harder to get. One winery, in California, mentioned that about 10% of their spoilage is due to bad corks. When I was last there, they were in the process of changing over to screw top bottles.
If you see me with horrible gashes all over my face, it's because I tried to screw-top a new feather blade ... :scared:
(The change is good ... no sense spending big bucks on a wine, cellaring it for decades, only to find out that the ten-cent hunk of bark has ruined your investment!!)
TimmyBoston
08-22-2007, 01:26 AM
Even better than some of the Mrs. Ouch avatars? Surely you jest. :lol:
The Mrs. Ouch avatars are far too dangerous, some other members may hunt you down out of jealousy. :a33:
See, I've got my girlfriend's picture in my avatar, I'm in no danger.
TimmyBoston
08-22-2007, 01:31 AM
Lynchmeister,
If you or your wife likes grapefruit, try a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc.
Frankly, I can't stand white wine, but if I do drink it, I nearly always go for a New Zealand Sauv. Blanc. Good suggestion. Lots of tropical fruit flavors and nice body for a white.
Lynchmeister
08-22-2007, 08:02 AM
Frankly, I can't stand white wine, but if I do drink it, I nearly always go for a New Zealand Sauv. Blanc. Good suggestion. Lots of tropical fruit flavors and nice body for a white.
Sounds good!
joshtpa
08-24-2007, 07:15 AM
I just found this thread. I was a Sommelier at the age of 23 and did that for quite a few years. If anyone has any suggestions, I most certainly can help. I have a 2500 bottle collection and would be happy to share.
rickw
08-24-2007, 07:18 AM
I just found this thread. I was a Sommelier at the age of 23 and did that for quite a few years. If anyone has any suggestions, I most certainly can help. I have a 2500 bottle collection and would be happy to share.
Will you bring the bottles to California or do I come to you?:smile:
joshtpa
08-24-2007, 07:43 AM
Will you bring the bottles to California or do I come to you?:smile:
You will have to come to me. But if you are near the wine country, check out some smaller allocated wineries out there. Paloma Merlot with the Richards Family. Wine of the year not so long ago and the best Merlot I have ever had. Has some influence of Robert Foley from Pride and Switchback fame. If it is Pinot you want, check out SchoolHouse. Tiny little home that Nancy Walker and her husband have. They will invite you in and cook for you and give you one of the best Pinot's there is. Also with some Robert Foley influence.
rickw
08-24-2007, 08:08 AM
I am familiar with Jeff Renquist and some of the Amador County wines. My location is Los Angeles County. Thirty minutes from Aqua Dolce Winery and maybe two hours from the Santa Ynez Valley.
joshtpa
08-24-2007, 08:11 AM
Dont know those at all. My specialty is Napa, Sonoma, Paso Rablos, Bordeaux, Sauternes, and Australia.
rickw
08-24-2007, 08:41 AM
I do get up to Paso Robles on occassion. Generally go east out of town to Arcero (EOS) and Eberly.
boboakalfb
08-24-2007, 09:23 AM
Dont know those at all. My specialty is Napa, Sonoma, Paso Rablos, Bordeaux, Sauternes, and Australia.
I would love to hear some Napa suggestions. We used to go up quite regularly but having a 6 month old has hampered the trips. We are heading up for a day next weekend and are always on the lookout for new recommendations.
letterk
08-24-2007, 09:33 AM
I would love to hear some Napa suggestions. We used to go up quite regularly but having a 6 month old has hampered the trips. We are heading up for a day next weekend and are always on the lookout for new recommendations.
My preference is Sonoma. If you don't mind heading a bit west, I could give you my favorites.
boboakalfb
08-24-2007, 09:39 AM
My preference is Sonoma. If you don't mind heading a bit west, I could give you my favorites.
I'd love to hear them. We end up on the Napa side 9 out of 10 times but would love to hear your thoughts.
joshtpa
08-24-2007, 09:42 AM
As far as Paso Robles is concerned. Definately check out Justin. Both the inexpensive Cab and the moderately priced Isoceles are wonderful wines. Probably the best in that region. As far as Napa and Sonoma are concerned. Wow, there are too many to suggest. As for wineries to visit, the best tour I have ever been on in that region is Flora Springs BAR NONE. The people are wonderful and the wine is very good. Especially their blend called Trilogy. It is outstanding. But there are soooooo many great ones in that region.
boboakalfb
08-24-2007, 09:55 AM
As far as Paso Robles is concerned. Definately check out Justin. Both the inexpensive Cab and the moderately priced Isoceles are wonderful wines. Probably the best in that region. As far as Napa and Sonoma are concerned. Wow, there are too many to suggest. As for wineries to visit, the best tour I have ever been on in that region is Flora Springs BAR NONE. The people are wonderful and the wine is very good. Especially their blend called Trilogy. It is outstanding. But there are soooooo many great ones in that region.
Ahhh, they have a tasting room right next door to Dean & Deluca. We have talked about popping in there quite a few times while next door but never have. I know they do private tours at the actual winery as well. We have spent quite a bit of time up there so have been to quite a few wineries. We always try to visit a new one every time we are up there.
boboakalfb
08-24-2007, 10:00 AM
Josh, I know this may be difficult, what would you name your 5 favorites in the Napa Valley?
Lynchmeister
08-24-2007, 04:30 PM
Last night I picked up a Sauv. blanc from New Zealand. I'll be sure to let you all know how well it goes over once we drink it.
joshtpa
08-25-2007, 04:06 AM
Josh, I know this may be difficult, what would you name your 5 favorites in the Napa Valley?
You would have to give me some time. There are tons. Right now, I am fixated on spring mountain. On the mountain you have tons. Robert Foley makes a lot of them. Terra Valentine, Spring Mountain, Pride Mountain, Paloma, Switchback, School House, etc...All of them are fantastic.
John Podeschi
01-08-2010, 06:17 PM
Your statement applies to the ephemeral nature of "appreciative" experience, whether it be literature (lyric poetry being most time-sensitive. I think), food, drink, smoking, and such exclusively masculine activities as shaving and aftershaves. For 20th-century Americans, motor vehicles (cars primarily, and driving to a degree), guns, knives, and spectator sports must be added to the list. We are not so far from our 18th- and 19th-century predecessors. though alcohol (especially spirits, whiskey in particular) tobacco, and firearms and shooting were a bigger deal then than now. Before cars there were horses and horse-racing.
Why is Badger & Blade such a great site? Because it's about shaving, an exclusively masculine activity. Here our wives cannot rob us of our masculine identity, interests, and opinions. In the 19th century women slowly got their husbands going to church on Sundays instead of racing horses and gambling. Have NFL Sundays helped get us back to our true center?
In regard to wine and alcoholic beverages in general, I have four simple rules: 1) first judge on the basis of taste. Do you consciously appraise what you drink from a comparative gustatory perspective? 2) next ask how alcohol in its various forms affects your mood (immediately and in its aftereffects, such as dreams), hopefully in positive way, socially, psychologically, and intellectually; 3) Then think of alcoholic beverages as nutrition---good nutrition, which wine certainly is; 4) and finally do not educate your palate to the point of not being able to afford your escalated tastes. It is pleasant to move towards greater and greater connoisseurship in things, but once one develops a "fine bouche," as the French say, it is hard to stomach inferior products.
Ironman06
01-09-2010, 06:13 AM
Wow, here's an oldie but a goodie.
I just reread all three pages and I have a few thoughts.
#1) How's it going Lynchmeister? What wines are you enjoying these days?
You've probably come to realize that your wine palate develops over time from enjoying a variety of wines. I'm not sure if a true wine newbie would have heard that advice yet from this thread alone.
#2) Anyone interested in exploring and developing their palate, the best mechanism for this that I've found was to locate a nice local wine shop and spend some time there talking with the staff there. It is their job to know the wines and I've had excellent luck with their recommendations with a particular eye to the wine magazine scores. I don't ususally spend more than $15 per bottle and usually find very good, up-and-coming wines.
Phog Allen
01-09-2010, 01:08 PM
Keep in mind that I already had the custom title of Ch. d'Ick.
Your advice is spot on, and I think that dessert wines are some of the most enjoyable wines you'll ever find. They also help you develop a taste for wines that aren't bone dry. When I starting sampling dessert wines, I found that I was better able to appreciate the slightly sweeter wines of Germany, as well as the Loire.
A good, inexpensive one to try would be a Muscat des Beaumes de Venise (I like Domaine de Durban). The fermentation is stopped by the addition of brandy, which leaves residual sugar in the wine. They are crisp and refreshing, with hints of rose petal and honey over an underpinning of crushed orange blossom. Another would be one of several of the Aussie dessert wines from Chambers- amazing value for the money.
I had long forgotten about this thread and see that like other great threads from the vault, someone always resurrects them.
Your description of Muscat des Beaumes de Venise (and you'd better believe I copied and pasted that one) sounds superb. The flavour notes alone make me want to try it. I know that winter is the time for mulled wines, eggnog, tawny ports and glogg but the description of that Muscat makes my mouth water. It reminds me of a Metheglin/Rhodomel mead combination. I shall have to look for that one.
Regards, Todd
Lynchmeister
01-10-2010, 06:10 PM
Wow, here's an oldie but a goodie.
I just reread all three pages and I have a few thoughts.
#1) How's it going Lynchmeister? What wines are you enjoying these days?
You've probably come to realize that your wine palate develops over time from enjoying a variety of wines. I'm not sure if a true wine newbie would have heard that advice yet from this thread alone.
It's going pretty well, thanks for asking! I have to say that I haven't really been drinking that much wine, but my tastes have broadened. I've since acquired a taste for reds (preferably with lower tannin contents) and enjoy many whites as well.
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