Why is soap completely impossible for me? AARHHH!

[swinchen]

Hi All,

I am VERY new to DE shaving w/ badger brush and soap/cream... so I may say something stupid (please correct me if I do).

Last night I tried for three hours to get a lather with a cake of shave soap I picked up at the natural living center (health food store). Every time I created what I would consider a foam, or maybe dense suds and not a lather. There were lots of air pockets, the foam did not last long (broke down quickly), had a dull appearance, and just plain sucked. I followed the instructions in the tutorial on this website... :mad3:I tried less soap, more soap, 5 drops of water at a time until it was soupy and the foam could not stand on it's own. I was COMPLETELY frustrated.

So today I went to supermarket and saw some "Kiss my Face Shaving Cream" and I thought what the heck. I started experimenting again and on my first try I made a thick, buttery, glossy lather and made me think of marshmallow fluff. Thinking that I must be dreaming I rinsed everything out and grabbed the soap. Three attempts later and I came to the conclusion that I could not build a lather with soap.

Any ideas what I could be doing wrong? Some of my possible ideas are:
#1) Certain soaps just don't work and this is one of them?
#2) My water (town supplied) makes it impossible to build a lather with soap?
#3) Something about my technique make a lather possible with cream, but not soap?
#4) The God of Shaving Soap hates me.

I also got a tub of Omega shaving cream today and I can build a lather with that as well, but not nearly as easily as with "Kiss My Face".

Any ideas? Is there a particular brand of soap I should try that is relatively representative of most shaving soaps? I don't want something fool proof because I seem to have that with the cream... I want something that acts like an "ordinary" soap.

If you have any hints or tips you could make an internet friend for life.

Thanks,
Sam

p.s. "Just use cream and stop whining" is not what I am looking for. I would love to be able to use either.

[SiBurning]

Just try with a different soap. Preferably one people around here are familiar with and know lather well.

"A cake of shave soap I picked up at the natural living center" isn't a know quantity. Added to other unknowns such as your water and skill, it's useless to try diagnosing whats wrong.

[swinchen]

Just try with a different soap. Preferably one people around here are familiar with and know lather well.

"A cake of shave soap I picked up at the natural living center" isn't a know quantity. Added to other unknowns such as your water and skill, it's useless to try diagnosing whats wrong.

http://www.dfsoaps.com/shaving-soap.shtml

Sorry... I couldn't remember the name until this very second. Dragonfly Men's Goat Milk Shaving Soap.

[82R100]

If you have a Walmart nearby, they usually carry Van der Hagen Deluxe shave soap. It's very inexpensive and reasonably easy to lather. What's more, it gives most of us a good shave and leaves our skin feeling good afterward as well.

- Chris

[nav]

I had the exact same problem when I started wet shaving. I purchased a big cake of "shaving" soap which would never give me anything more than thin, weak sudsy bubbly lather!

I was about to give up until I picked up a Crabtree & Evelyn shaving soap (which I regard as an average soap by the way), I then had a much better lather and a nice shave. I promptly shifted the original soap to the shower and started trying out more good quality triple milled shaving soaps.

Whatever you do, get one of the big name soaps to begin with so you know how a proper shaving soap performs.

[beginish]

I think everyone has nailed it. It's probably the soap. VDH is good. You could also pick up Art of Shaving soap if you have an AoS near you (or some higher end dept store). It is one of the easiest soaps to lather and you'll get a tremendous shave out of it.

[tlanning]

Your not alone. Most newbys out using primarily creams and work there way into the soaps. The brand suggested from Walmarts is an excellent suggestion and eventually a soap called Tabac. Hang in there you got the right idea though, pratice makes perfect, (eventually).

[JCD]

soap can be tricky, try putting about a tablespoon of very hot water on the puck. Use a stiff brush with the water shaken out. Load up the brush with
a lot of soap. It will take a while and should look like cream in the bristles.
Make your lather, if it gets foamy or bubbly you need more soap. It's a very fine line between water and soap as to whether you get the lather right.

[cvac]

Stay away from any soap that isn't given at least a "satisfactory" rating here. A lot of "natural" and "homemade" shave soaps are really not shave soaps at all. Basically someone who has no clue how shave soap is supposed to work took their bath soap recipe and added some clay, then poured it in a round mold, and labeled it as "shave soap".

Keep practicing and stick with proven performers for your shave soap purchases. The Omega you have and VDH should both work just fine once you get your technique down.

Read reviews here:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40

[Jim]

Its the soap-

From the website,


Men's Shaving Soap Product Ingredients:
Saponified oils of olive, coconut, palm and shea butter. Also contains goat's milk, castor oil, bentonite clay and silk fibers. Scented with basil, rosemary, lime and orange essential oils.


Olive oil soap is not satisfactory for a shave soap, use it in the bath instead.

[Evbo]

Its the soap-
...
Olive oil soap is not satisfactory for a shave soap, use it in the bath instead.

+1. Jim nailed it 100%. Any olive oil-based alleged shaving soap is impossible to build a decent lather with. It's not you. It's the soap. :thumbup1:

[swinchen]

Alright... I went super insane on this one.

I spent the last hour looking at every shave soap review and figured out that if I bought Tabac and Cella from Amazon I could get both for $29 w/ free shipping. Both got great reviews and if they don't work for me... I will just stick with creams.


If it does work, Honeybee Spa's and The Gentlemen's Quarter will be getting orders from me very soon.

I didn't get VDH because I could only buy it in sets of 3 or 12. If I don't like the scent I wouldn't want a ton of it laying around.

Lets hope this works! Thanks for the advice. I hated the scent of that dragonfly soap anyways so I just tossed it. It smells like a natural food store only 10 times stronger.

[srv524]

One thing I do that I saw on Mantic's youtube tutorial, if I use a soap, is heat up the cup by letting it sit in hot water for a bit, rinse the cup out with hot water just enough the wet the soap and leave a little moisture behind and start mixing it in.
Make sure you're brushing with the tips of the brush, not the whole brush itself (like I did up until I re-watched the tutorial last week lol) when the brush is moist. If you're seeing bubbles, that generally means that the foam is too watery (or so I've read on here). But what do I know, I still use a weishi...

[Obsessed]

I think you'll be pleased with Cella and Tabac. Be sure to look over the lathering tutorials, if you haven't already.

[swinchen]

I think you'll be pleased with Cella and Tabac. Be sure to look over the lathering tutorials, if you haven't already.

Actually I was sitting at the computer reading the tutorial last night while whipping like mad trying to get that crappy soap to lather. Both arms are actually tired... I serious beat that slop for at least 3 hours. My poor brush probably wishes it went to a different owner.

[Evbo]

I serious beat that slop for at least 3 hours.

I was going to say something but decided not to. But oh, it's tempting... :001_rolle

[swinchen]

I was going to say something but decided not to. But oh, it's tempting... :001_rolle

That is actually why I replaced "junk" with "slop". Still, I guess it does sound pretty bad.

[Obsessed]

I was going to say something but decided not to. But oh, it's tempting... :001_rolle


That is actually why I replaced "junk" with "slop". Still, I guess it does sound pretty bad.

Oh, by the way, welcome to B&B! :lol:

[swinchen]

Haha thanks :) Hopefully someday I will be able to give back... right now I am just trying to slice my neck open :tongue_sm

[Evbo]

right now I am just trying to slice my neck open :tongue_sm

One day, lad, all this will be yours.

[BroJohn]

Honeybee Spa's and The Gentlemen's Quarter

Both of these are quite excellent, FWIW.

Glad you're back on track, and Welcome to B&B!

-- John Gehman

[Omnichron]

God made man, Barbasol made them equal.:001_smile
http://www.prestoimages.net/graphics08/648_pd214799_1.jpg

[swinchen]

:001_huh: :w00t:

Must be a a newbie using a feather blade. His angle also looks way off.

Glad I purchased a styptic pencil today.

I was just thinking. So far I have only shaved with the DE using a crummy, olive-oil based foam, and it was still a hundred times better than the shaved I used to get with the 5 bladed monsters. I am looking for to using the real deal lather.

Ahhh ok I have a question that I have seen mixed viewpoints on... washing your face before shaving... yay or nay?

[Evbo]

Ahhh ok I have a question that I have seen mixed viewpoints on... washing your face before shaving... yay or nay?

WETTING - yea. WASHING - yea/nay.

You absolutely need to get your face wet before shaving. I always take a shower right before shaving (I wash my face too) & leave it wet when I get out. On the odd occasion when I don't shave beforehand, I'll spend some time getting my face wet and/or using a hot towel on my beard. Warm water preps the stubble -- and your skin -- for shaving. You don't necessarily have to wash it first, tho. (You can always wash your face w/the remainder of your shaving lather after you finish the shave.)

[Captain Morgan]

I have only two soaps that have given problems like that....Wildman Sassafras and Burt's Bees Bay Rum. I think that these two soaps are meant to be rubbed on the face instead of using a brush. Either way, these soaps do not lather worth a crap. I used the Burt's Bees as a shower soap. My skin is feeling pretty good though.....:001_rolle

[swinchen]

WETTING - yea. WASHING - yea/nay.

You absolutely need to get your face wet before shaving. I always take a shower right before shaving (I wash my face too) & leave it wet when I get out. On the odd occasion when I don't shave beforehand, I'll spend some time getting my face wet and/or using a hot towel on my beard. Warm water preps the stubble -- and your skin -- for shaving. You don't necessarily have to wash it first, tho. (You can always wash your face w/the remainder of your shaving lather after you finish the shave.)

Wow, I can't imagine shaving without taking a shower first. My beard is ultra thick and wiry. It feels a lot like a boar brush actually. Without a good soaking any razor would rip my face off.

Some things I have read/watched on youtube suggest washing, other recommend not washing, and others go as far as saying don't wash and use a pre-shave oil. I guess it is probably easy enough for me try all of those. I even have a thing of shave secret :)

[Obsessed]

Wow, I can't imagine shaving without taking a shower first. My beard is ultra thick and wiry. It feels a lot like a boar brush actually. Without a good soaking any razor would rip my face off.

Some things I have read/watched on youtube suggest washing, other recommend not washing, and others go as far as saying don't wash and use a pre-shave oil. I guess it is probably easy enough for me try all of those. I even have a thing of shave secret :)

My advice is not to worry about that stuff now; keep your current pre-shave routine and just focus on learning to lather the soap. You can tweak the other variables later.

[coolbluewater]

Stay away from any soap that isn't given at least a "satisfactory" rating here. A lot of "natural" and "homemade" shave soaps are really not shave soaps at all. Basically someone who has no clue how shave soap is supposed to work took their bath soap recipe and added some clay, then poured it in a round mold, and labeled it as "shave soap".

Keep practicing and stick with proven performers for your shave soap purchases. The Omega you have and VDH should both work just fine once you get your technique down.

Read reviews here:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40


+1

I don't get the recommendations to newbs to "work their way up" to a soap that actually lathers; alot of 'em will say "screw this", ditch the Forum and go back to canned goo. There's always at least as many Guests here as there are registered users. What they need is an instant confidence boost.
Grab a tub of Cella or Tabac for instant gratification, while you practice building those Popeye forearms and technique on hard/milled soap pucks.
Oh yeah - "YMMV".

[swinchen]

Ok, so I thought Omega was a cream. Well I gave it a shot and what a lather! Soap isn't as mysterious as I thought it was... I was just using junk. The only thing I have to be careful of is over hydrating... I keep thinking "Yeah, I bet it can hold more water!"

Unlike the "Kiss My Face" cream, the Omega stays shiny after you are done swirling. The KMF is only shiny while you are actively whipping it.

Last night in my experimentation I found that it was best not to mash the bristles in the bottom of the bowl, but just use the tips.

What a fun learning experience! I have a list of about 100 soaps and creams I want to try... This is horrible.

[Schwert]

I have a list of about 100 soaps and creams I want to try... This is horrible.



This is B&B....we call horrible, SAD.

Get yer wallet out....you are in for a ride.

[Evbo]

I have a list of about 100 soaps and creams I want to try... This is horrible.

Oh yes. Better get used to it.

[drandall]

i'm also a member of head-fi, an online headphone and audio enthusiasts group and they have a saying,

"welcome to head-fi and sorry about your wallet"

it's a condition we badgers understand quite well

[Topgumby]

What a fun learning experience! I have a list of about 100 soaps and creams I want to try... This is horrible.

Horrible?

I used to drop more dough in one night pounding the crap out of my liver on a barstool then I'll spend in a year of acquiring soaps and creams, and instead of great shaves I ended up with eyeballs that looked like orbs of raw bacon and a head that felt like a failed Menthos and Mountain Dew experiment.

There are worse things in life than an overstuffed shave den!

There are soaps that work for me that you may end up despising (thinking of Williams here :lol:) soaps that I can't figure out that you may like (I can take or leave the VDH glycerin soap, but it's a fine product that some are devoted to) and some soaps that If you like them, I'll question your judgement but still respect your right to it (Burt's Bees Bay Rum is for the criminally insane, but Your Mileage May Vary).

It's all good. Welcome, and keep posting your results!

[xgunterx]

Actually I was sitting at the computer reading the tutorial last night while whipping like mad trying to get that crappy soap to lather. Both arms are actually tired... I serious beat that slop for at least 3 hours. My poor brush probably wishes it went to a different owner.

LOL! :thumbup:

Well, not for your misery, but for the humor. :001_smile

[Frowzy]

Really good advice in this thread. Keep at it!

[Ru4scuba?]

Oh yes. Better get used to it.

I have GOT to get me one of those signs...where did you get it? (and dont say there was a big, three headed dog outside guarding it) :lol: