My girl question

[perry]

I've sworn to myself that I wouldn't ask for dating advice on an online forum, but I'm confused.

I met this gal online in October. We went out to dinner twice in a week then just chatted over text messaging until Thanksgiving, about 6 weeks. We planned stuff but life got in the way and things got canceled. Thousands of text messages went back and forth! For Thanksgiving, she was going to be alone, so I insisted she come w/ ma and I to lunch, and she did. She came to my house the next day for dinner and we've hung out pretty much every weekend since. Still chatting over text messaging through the week. Most of the time she comes to my house for me to cook and either go to a movie or watch a movie, but I took her to my company Xmas party and to a party at a buddy's house. We exchanged simple Xmas presents.

The most we've done is hug at the end of eat outing. No cuddling on the couch, no hand holding, none of that.

Here is where I'm confused. In October / early November when we were emailing / texting she told me "friends first," and to just relax. I was ready to just say whatever and go on with life, but I've kept talking to her because I think she's a pretty cool gal.

Over the past week, she's told me a couple times that she considers me to be a good friend now. Normally, this would be a bad thing, right? But, what about the previous paragraph?

I'll add a couple things that have me wondering and making me feel like it's now or never. She went to a football game last weekend with a guy that was her loan originator for her house a couple years ago. She lost her job a few days prior and he felt sorry for her, and he had a spare ticket.. She was at my house on Wednesday for dinner. Friday we were talking on the phone (a REAL rarity!) and she mentioned going out to dinner w/ him on Tuesday. Then today, Saturday, after lunch, on her Facebook some other guy posted something like, "hey you're a cheap date, hope you had fun because I did." And she responded, "that was a date? next time take me somewhere nice." And then today she also posted a picture on her Facebook of the football ticket guy w/ his arm around her - a week later! So that's two dudes just on her Facebook!

So I am at a point where I want to either file her away as a gal I know, or take her on a date. She's a nice enough person that I don't want to just file her away, and I also don't want to ruin our friendship.

I think what I need is for someone to tell me to just grow a pair and use the word "date" when asking about our next outing to make my intentions clear. She's coming over on Sunday for me to cook and watch a movie (we're going through the Saw series). I guess I fancy her enough to not want to ruin our friendship with the awkwardness if she says no. The thing is, I don't want to be the "other guy" and put her to in to a weird situation. Do I just say eff it and ask her knowing that whatever friendship will be ruined if it doesn't go my way? Nothing ventured, nothing gained? Is it too late and I just throw in the towel? So, what say ye B&B?

[airplanedoc]

I think you got Just friended. But the only way to know is ask, See if she wants to go out on a proper date, and make sure she knows it is a Date, not dinner with a friend. Worst she can say is no.

[luvmysuper]

Tell her how you feel, and that you'd like to take the relationship to a more serious and committed level.
Either she'll respond positively and you'll be happy or she'll say no and that she just considers you a friend.
From the sound of your post, it doesn't sound like you are happy being friends with her, and in fact, your reluctance to tell her how you really feel is based on a fear of not having her around at all. You're fooling yourself if you think that you can ever be happy with her just being around as a friend.
Ask her out, make a gentlemanly move and let things develop - or move on and find that someone special who is out there for you.

[CCMphysician]

I think you got Just friended. But the only way to know is ask, See if she wants to go out on a proper date, and make sure she knows it is a Date, not dinner with a friend. Worst she can say is no.

Yeah, sorry, mein friend. There's not a whole lot of good news I have for you. The best I can offer you is that you probably would not want to deal with her either. If she goes out with two different guys at the same time, she would do the same with you. Don't put yourself through it.

Push on, we're all there with you,
CCM

[mparker762]

Maybe friend zone, maybe she's trying to goad you into moving into dating mode, maybe you're just backup material for her. I'd ask her out on an unequivocal date, but wouldn't be surprised if she declines and reiterates the "friends" bit, accepts and you switch to courting mode, or accepts but keeps dating other guys. But whichever way it goes you'll likely get good information from her response. The question is whether you'll like the implications of that information. But ultimately asking the question won't change her feelings, it just brings a measure of clarity to the issue. Sometimes it's more fun to agonize over the unknown than mourn over the certainty of loss. It's up to you.

[perry]

First reactions are usually right and there's three of them. Shoulda acted quicker. I wanna say that's cool, ya know, but it's not. I'll cook her dinner tomorrow as planned and ask. Prepared for the worst, hope for the best.

And we already have plans for next weekend to go to a party at the same buddy's house again - he hosts UFC parties and she likes to watch UFC... Maybe I can weasel my way out.

I'll sack up on Sunday and see what happens. She got the flu on Thursday and was throwing up the food I cooked her on Wednesday.. and still wants to eat more of whatever I cook on Sunday. And lemme tell ya, I ain't the greatest cook. She's been here more to eat than we've been out someplace. Something keeps bringing her back. Free food while she shops around? Shrug. Oh well. At least I've enjoyed her company for a couple months, huh?

[mparker762]

Free food while she shops around?

Could be, unfortunately. I've known women that did that sort of thing. Plus you help keep her from being bored, plus she likes the attention.

[The Nid Hog]

Man, I haven't been on a date since the end of the Reagan administration. Are we being friends with girls now?

[luvmysuper]

First reactions are usually right and there's three of them. Shoulda acted quicker. I wanna say that's cool, ya know, but it's not. I'll cook her dinner tomorrow as planned and ask. Prepared for the worst, hope for the best.

And we already have plans for next weekend to go to a party at the same buddy's house again - he hosts UFC parties and she likes to watch UFC... Maybe I can weasel my way out.

I'll sack up on Sunday and see what happens. She got the flu on Thursday and was throwing up the food I cooked her on Wednesday.. and still wants to eat more of whatever I cook on Sunday. And lemme tell ya, I ain't the greatest cook. She's been here more to eat than we've been out someplace. Something keeps bringing her back. Free food while she shops around? Shrug. Oh well. At least I've enjoyed her company for a couple months, huh?

Don't be down yet, things could go superbly, and she could be asking you "What took you so long?".
You just can't know until you ask and get an answer.

[mparker762]

Man, I haven't been on a date since the end of the Reagan administration. Are we being friends with girls now?

Some girls are old-fashioned and want to be friends before going to bed. Never understood it myself, but then I'm not a girl.

[CCMphysician]

Could be, unfortunately. I've known women that did that sort of thing. Plus you help keep her from being bored, plus she likes the attention.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. The fact that you are accompanying her to this party of a guy who she's dated means that you probably are in the friend territory. I agree with the above assessment, she probably likes the attention which means there is some insecurity there. Couldn't hurt to ask her out on an actual date though; just be prepared to amputate.

-CCM

[perry]

Could be, unfortunately. I've known women that did that sort of thing. Plus you help keep her from being bored, plus she likes the attention.

More info. I met her about 2 weeks after she moves in to an apartment from a house. She had lived in that house w/ a guy she had been with for 4.5 years. So she obviously isn't a flake that hops from guy to guy. I told her from the get go that I didn't want to be the rebound... That was one of my first three emails to her!

Agonizing over the unknown is what drives nuts!!! I guess that is my answer, huh? Sack up and ask. I think the Facebook nonsense is what has messed with me the most. Stupid website.

Oh, I mentioned I was applying for a new job at work about two weeks ago and she said, "maybe then you could afford to take me on a real date."

I sooooo wanna think she ain't playing games with me. I soooooo wanna think she is "different," whatever that means. I didn't want to get lured in to the dating games. Bah.

[luvmysuper]

Some girls are old-fashioned and want to be friends before going to bed. Never understood it myself, but then I'm not a girl.

There's a difference between being friendly and being friends.
Being Friendly leads to possible relationships.
Being Friends leads to long lonely nights.

[The Nid Hog]

Some girls are old-fashioned and want to be friends before going to bed. Never understood it myself, but then I'm not a girl.

I feel so old now. I guess that I've outgrown more than my Magnum PI OP shorts.

[Strikermike]

Tell her friends is okay as long as it has "benefits". :lol::lol:

[mparker762]

The fact that you are accompanying her to this party of a guy who she's dated means that you probably are in the friend territory.

Depends on if she thought of this date with the other guy as a date - we don't know if the girl actually called that a date or it was the OP's description. It's possible the other guys is friend-zoned, or both of them are. OP, you gotta ask her out using the word date to try to flush out her intentions.

[CCMphysician]

There's a difference between being friendly and being friends.
Being Friendly leads to possible relationships.
Being Friends leads to long lonely nights.

As much as it pains me to admit it, luvmysuper is usually right.

-CCM

[perry]

Unfortunately, I agree with you. The fact that you are accompanying her to this party of a guy who she's dated means that you probably are in the friend territory. I agree with the above assessment, she probably likes the attention which means there is some insecurity there. Couldn't hurt to ask her out on an actual date though; just be prepared to amputate.

Na, the buddy's house is my buddy. She knows none of the people. She hasn't invited me to anything w/ her friends.

"date" shall be used on Sunday. I guess that's what I needed to hear :)

[CCMphysician]

Tell her friends is okay as long as it has "benefits". :lol::lol:

Sorry, I actually find that rather offensive.

-CCM

[CCMphysician]

Na, the buddy's house is my buddy. She knows none of the people. She hasn't invited me to anything w/ her friends.

"date" shall be used on Sunday. I guess that's what I needed to hear :)

Ah! Excellent then! I wish you the best of luck. Just ignore me, I tend to be a debbie downer.

-CCM

[perry]

Sorry, I actually find that rather offensive.

-CCM

Actually, I do too. That's why I've made no moves without the "date" thing being clear.

[mparker762]

Oh, I mentioned I was applying for a new job at work about two weeks ago and she said, "maybe then you could afford to take me on a real date."

Who knows. Lots of conflicting signals from this girl, some of them are significant and some are just random whims. If she's fresh out of a serious breakup of a serious crelationship then she probably needed some recharge time, but after four months in the friend zone it's time to nut up and ask her out for serious, and find out if it's time to cut your losses. But a lot of times the friend during the post-breakup recharge is either permanently friend zoned or if you're lucky you're rebound boy.

[airplanedoc]

Man, I haven't been on a date since the end of the Reagan administration. Are we being friends with girls now?

Sounds kind of like the Russians dosen't it

[The Nid Hog]

Na, the buddy's house is my buddy. She knows none of the people. She hasn't invited me to anything w/ her friends.

"date" shall be used on Sunday. I guess that's what I needed to hear :)

On a serious note, I think that you have gone too far with the friends thing. Keep hanging out with her if you want a girl buddy. Factor into that the complications if one of your friends at the UFC viewing party asks her out. If you are cool with all that, continue on. Otherwise, I'd uninvite her to the UFC, cancel the dinner, and cut my losses before I found myself in the romantic equivalent of Napoleon's campaign in Russia.

[The Nid Hog]

Sounds kind of like the Russians dosen't it

Nah, I can speak some Russian.

[perry]

On a serious note, I think that you have gone too far with the friends thing. Keep hanging out with her if you want a girl buddy. Factor into that the complications if one of your friends at the UFC viewing party asks her out. If you are cool with all that, continue on. Otherwise, I'd uninvite her to the UFC, cancel the dinner, and cut my losses before I found myself in the romantic equivalent of Napoleon's campaign in Russia.

Everyone at the UFC thing is married except for us. I'm 31 (yea, WTF!), she 28. If someone asks her out, there's a much bigger problem :scared: The other two guys from her Facebook are from her group of friends that I've never met.

She'll still come to eat dinner on Sunday because that's when we gotta talk. Got it. If she goes home w/ leftovers, then things are good :001_tt2: I think I'm at the point where SOMETHING has to change. I probably did wait too long for the friends thing, c'est la vie.

[CCMphysician]

Actually, I do too. That's why I've made no moves without the "date" thing being clear.

I respect you all the more for it. There aren't too many of you left anymore, so ask her out, if it doesn't pan out, amputate. There are far too many girls who appreciate someone like you for you to end up in the Stalingrad of dating.

-CCM

[luvmysuper]

Ah! Excellent then! I wish you the best of luck. Just ignore me, I tend to be a debbie downer.

-CCM

I think it's nice to have a wide variety of viewpoints to consider.

I mean, sometimes the glass IS half empty.

[perry]

I SWORE to myself that I wouldn't get caught up in the typical dating games. I guess the fact that I'm even having a hard time with this shows that I have. I just gotta lay it out there and see what's up. What I suspected all along. Thanks B&B :001_unsur As much as I'd like to think I want a gal pal I don't think it's possible at this point.

[CCMphysician]

I SWORE to myself that I wouldn't get caught up in the typical dating games. I guess the fact that I'm even having a hard time with this shows that I have. I just gotta lay it out there and see what's up. What I suspected all along. Thanks B&B :001_unsur

Dating is a strategy game, whether you like it or not. The only way to win it is to stay in it, which from the sound of it is the problem you have been having.

Best of luck,
CCM

[Strikermike]

Sorry, I actually find that rather offensive.

-CCM
Sorry did not mean to offend anyone. But have you never had a friend of the opposite sex that went a little further than friends, but were still able to remain friends.

[perry]

Sorry didnot mean to offend anyone. But have you never had a friend of the opposite sex that went a little further than friends, but were still able to remain friends.

I'm not offended as in completely repulsed, but in that's not how I'm looking at this gal. A purely physical relationship with this gal is not what interests me. Yea, she's easy on the eyes, but...

[mparker762]

Sorry did not mean to offend anyone. But have you never had a friend of the opposite sex that went a little further than friends, but were still able to remain friends.

Yep. Sometimes sex is just sex, even for women.

[Strikermike]

Remember this, if you really want a long term relationship to work. You have to be friends first. My best friend is my wife. We will have or 27th anniversary this July. Don't play games and just be honest. The rest will take care of itself.

[CEFranklin]

Oh, I mentioned I was applying for a new job at work about two weeks ago and she said, "maybe then you could afford to take me on a real date."

You don't want any of that! That seems to be a recurring thing I am seeing here. A "real date". She's never going to get what she wants.

My point is that if she wanted to get serious, she would have by now.

[Gray Wolf]

Two different dudes just on Facebook?
Was shacked up with another guy for 4 1/2 years?
You already know the answer, time to be a man and quit fooling yourself.

[Obsessed]

Do I just say eff it and ask her knowing that whatever friendship will be ruined if it doesn't go my way? Nothing ventured, nothing gained? Is it too late and I just throw in the towel? So, what say ye B&B?

Yes. If it works out, that's great, and if it doesn't, then quite honestly you'll be better off without the friendship. A friendship tainted by one-sided and unrequited romantic yearnings is just not a good situation to be in.

On a lighter note, I can't believe that people are so offended by the notion of "friends with benefits." You guys just don't know how great you have it today! :biggrin:

[perry]

You don't want any of that! That seems to be a recurring thing I am seeing here. A "real date". She's never going to get what she wants.

My point is that if she wanted to get serious, she would have by now.

Sunday night. Ahhh! War face. I'm ready!

Ugh!


Remember this, if you really want a long term relationship to work. You have to be friends first. My best friend is my wife. We will have or 27th anniversary this July. Don't play games and just be honest. The rest will take care of itself.

That's what I think. The friends part. It's become such that she can talk to me and I can talk to her. I don't know what a game is to begin to play it. It's all very confusing.

Like I said, she lost her job on the 13th, and hasn't told some of her friends because she is embarrassed. I like talking to her and she obviously likes talking to me, so I guess the only way to find out if there is anything more there is to ask!

I think I knew it all along, but just needed a group of strangers to convince me :001_smile


Two different dudes just on Facebook?
Was shacked up with another guy for 4 1/2 years?
You already know the answer, time to be a man and quit fooling yourself.

Facebook is an evil beast. The football dude could just be a friend. He's 10 years older than her. I wouldn't consider a gal 10 years older to be anything more than a friend. The guy today seems to have known her for a while, from before she moved out from the other dude. They have classes together.

I think I do know the answer. I don't want to know it, ya know? Damn strangers!

I'll figure this crap out as I'm feeding her beef stew and biscuits tomorrow :w00t:

Tell me B&B, is it good or bad that this gal is messing with me this much, and she doesn't even know it? I hate the doubt. I hate the uncertainty.

[petr]

FB is an evil beast for sure. But, it can be one revelaing evil beast.

Make your move bro. Now is the time. Bed her or go down in flames trying. Her reaction to your attempt to take her to the sack should resolve everything. If she plays some BS, them move on. Simple as that.

But, I'm a guy that moves on after probably a week if I realize I ain't gonna get any. Feast or famine.

Best of luck.

[ouch]

The best advice I ever heard on this subject was given by that great American philosopher, Kelly Bundy:

A girl knows in the first five seconds whether you're going to score or not.

[perry]

I have her crock pot at my house from cooking two weeks ago (and it's what I'll use tomorrow). Half of me wants to drive it over and leave it at her apartment door tomorrow with a postit that just says, "bye," and be done with it all. Stop the texts and emails and phone calls and FB stuff. You guys get in my head too much more and I'm liable to do just that.

The other half wants to see what she has to say. If it weren't for that damn crock pot I'd probably already said bye. I must know what's going to happen. Sigh.

[luvmysuper]

I have her crock pot at my house from cooking two weeks ago (and it's what I'll use tomorrow). Half of me wants to drive it over and leave it at her apartment door tomorrow with a postit that just says, "bye," and be done with it all. Stop the texts and emails and phone calls and FB stuff. You guys get in my head too much more and I'm liable to do just that.

The other half wants to see what she has to say. If it weren't for that damn crock pot I'd probably already said bye. I must know what's going to happen. Sigh.

I sincerely hope you post back here next week that things have worked out splendidly.
Best of luck.

[mparker762]

I have her crock pot at my house from cooking two weeks ago (and it's what I'll use tomorrow). Half of me wants to drive it over and leave it at her apartment door tomorrow with a postit that just says, "bye," and be done with it all. Stop the texts and emails and phone calls and FB stuff. You guys get in my head too much more and I'm liable to do just that.

The other half wants to see what she has to say. If it weren't for that damn crock pot I'd probably already said bye. I must know what's going to happen. Sigh.


As that great philosophical treatise "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" says in large print on the cover: "Don't Panic". You don't know what's going on in that girl's head. Give her an honest, open run, and see what she does. Then be honest with yourself afterwards.

[kopio]

Remember this, if you really want a long term relationship to work. You have to be friends first. My best friend is my wife. We will have or 27th anniversary this July. Don't play games and just be honest. The rest will take care of itself.

BIG +! on that. FWIW....I can't tell you how many times I asked my wife out to "lunch" before she finally went out with me. Seriously....probably 15+ times. I was persistent....then again, she was (and still is) smoking hot and out of my league!


As that great philosophical treatise "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" says in large print on the cover: "Don't Panic". You don't know what's going on in that girl's head. Give her an honest, open run, and see what she does. Then be honest with yourself afterwards.

Another +1. My best advice to you is to be completely open, honest and transparent. I mean....don't pop the question or anything, but let her know that you seriously dig her and that you want to know if she is open to moving forward even if it means very s l o w l y.

I have found with Love (the real thing with the capital L) and affairs of the heart that you have to be willing to risk it all if it is really worth it. Trust me....I did. I was disowned from my family (we're cool now) and turned my whole world upside down (as did she). Twenty years later, and I'm still completely crazy about her.

The best thing a man can do is find the woman of his dreams and hang on for all you're worth.

Ok....I think I've sounded enough like a sissy for now! But here's the thing...I think it's true.

Chics come and go in the rack....yeah...big deal....finding someone you want to spend the rest of your life with is a rarity!

Ok.....I'm gonna go kiss my wife now!:001_tt1::001_tt1::001_tt1:

[blackfoot]

I feel so old now. I guess that I've outgrown more than my Magnum PI OP shorts.

Hated the shorts but loved the show. :thumbsup:


The best advice I ever heard on this subject was given by that great American philosopher, Kelly Bundy:

A girl knows in the first five seconds whether you're going to score or not.

:lol::lol::lol:


I have her crock pot at my house from cooking two weeks ago (and it's what I'll use tomorrow). Half of me wants to drive it over and leave it at her apartment door tomorrow with a postit that just says, "bye," and be done with it all. Stop the texts and emails and phone calls and FB stuff. You guys get in my head too much more and I'm liable to do just that.

The other half wants to see what she has to say. If it weren't for that damn crock pot I'd probably already said bye. I must know what's going to happen. Sigh.

Man, you are giving up and the enemy lines aren't even drawn yet. You have a hill you need to take. You have circled and avoided it for a couple of months. It's time to fight up that hill. Don't walk away now. That will tear you up more than rejection. If you are going to retreat, retreat because you lost, not because you didn't have the guts to try. I can see things going either way. I see everyone's opinions, but I am not convinced either way. So, you have to try. No matter who's flag is on top that hill tomorrow night, you can walk away with pride and know you gave it a good shot. Good luck! :thumbsup:

[Obsessed]

Man, you are giving up and the enemy lines aren't even drawn yet. You have a hill you need to take. You have circled and avoided it for a couple of months. It's time to fight up that hill. Don't walk away now. That will tear you up more than rejection. If you are going to retreat, retreat because you lost, not because you didn't have the guts to try. I can see things going either way. I see everyone's opinions, but I am not convinced either way. So, you have to try. No matter who's flag is on top that hill tomorrow night, you can walk away with pride and know you gave it a good shot. Good luck! :thumbsup:

Along those lines, let me revive a post by our friend The Nid Hog from an earlier thread on a similar topic:


You have to take the lead away from her. Seize the initiative. Then you won't be responding to her--she'll be responding to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

[blackfoot]

Along those lines, let me revive a post by our friend The Nid Hog from an earlier thread on a similar topic:

:thumbsup:

[petr]

I've got 10 bucks that says if you make a stand, take her the crock pot back and say so long because of x ... then she'll be all over your jock. Always happens.

Women want what they can't have.

[Uncle Erik]

You need to flush her out of the bushes and give her a little jolt of jealousy.

What you should do is call, email or text her and cancel tomorrow's dinner. Tell her that a former classmate, friend's sister, someone you ran into at the market, etc. is really wonderful and that you're going out on a date Sunday night instead of having dinner with her. Yes, lie.

Apologize profusely, but say that you're really wanting a relationship and you're not going to lose this opportunity.

If she says that's great and she hopes you have a good time, then you're clearly her "friend" and that's that. You can pull away blaming your new girlfriend and let the friendship end.

If she gets weird and jealous, make your move. Say that you didn't know where the relationship was going. If she wants to go on a real date, then say you'll cancel the other "date" and spend Sunday with her instead.

Yeah, it's mildly dishonest and manipulative. But your intentions are good - you're not going for a quick score and are interested in a relationship. I think it's better to put her into this position because women almost always say no when directly pressured. This forces her into an emotional choice of whether or not to "lose" you to another woman. If she wants to hang on, she will. If not, it lets you slip out while telling her that she's a great friend and how much you valued your time together. Then cut her off.

If you're still serious, give it three or four months. Do something to change yourself. Lose weight, get in shape, buy a new car, get a new job, take up a new hobby, etc. Then drop her a note out of the blue, say you broke up and ask if she'd like to get dinner some time. With a slightly different you and some time apart, that might push the reset button on the friend thing and give you another chance.

[proxymoron]

I hinted at this on a similar thread, but no amount of tea leaf reading by a bunch of guys who don't have the full story is going to give you advice half as good as your own gut feeling.

That said, a big leaf no one seems to have noticed is that the girl is just off a four and a half year relationship with a guy she was living with. The headspace prognosis is likely not great one way or the other, and the problem with asking her straight up is that the question "is this a rebound?" is very much like "are you a psycho?" in that the answer tells you nothing.

But trust your gut. If you think the fruit's ripe, give the tree a shake. Maybe you'll come up peaches.

Good luck.

[Kouros]

Give it up. All relationships eventually end. You were born alone; you'll die alone.

[mparker762]

That said, a big leaf no one seems to have noticed is that the girl is just off a four and a half year relationship with a guy she was living with. The headspace prognosis is likely not great one way or the other


We noticed (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1815410&postcount=22). But it sounds like he's not rebound guy or he'd have gotten a lot farther a lot faster. So if OP isn't rebound guy and hasn't noticed another rebound guy then it sounds like she's been decompressing from the stresses from the collapse of her previous relationship. From what OP has said, it's possible getting ready to rejoin the game again, and if this is true then the $100,000 question is whether OP's a potential mr. right or is he stuck in the friend zone.

[perry]

As that great philosophical treatise "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" says in large print on the cover: "Don't Panic". You don't know what's going on in that girl's head. Give her an honest, open run, and see what she does. Then be honest with yourself afterwards.

Probably good advice. I'm the panic-y / worrying type. Could ya tell?


You need to flush her out of the bushes and give her a little jolt of jealousy.

Lieing and playing games like that just isn't my style. If she's not interested, then she's not interested. Rejection would suck but I'm not out to twist anyone's arm.


I've got 10 bucks that says if you make a stand, take her the crock pot back and say so long because of x ... then she'll be all over your jock. Always happens.

Women want what they can't have.

That's another game to me. If I did something like that, it'd be for keeps. Earlier this morning she said her stomach was already feeling upset knowing she was coming here later (the flu stuff started a few hours after leaving here Wednesday night / early Thursday morning, and she jokingly tells me it was my fault..). I told her not to come then. She said "of course I wanna!"

So, we'll see.

[raisindot]

My friend, as someone who was in this position that you are (many, many years ago before I met my wife) I think she's taking you for a ride. The fact that you are cooking for her all that time (has she made you a meal?) and that she makes jokes about guys taking her out "for a real date" suggests that she's a queen bee who wants to gather a bunch of fawning suitors around her until she finds the Scott Brown in her life. The fact that after all this time she's not getting physical at all suggests she's just not all that attracted to you.

If you still wish this could go to the next level, I'd cool it for awhile. Make yourself unavailable. Don't hang out with her. If she texts you, wait awhile before responding and then keep it terse and non-committal.

Chances are, she'll probably drop you and hang out with her other suitors. Which should be fine with you because it lets you move on. If she does come back and asks you what's wrong, just say that you just can't go on being someone's G-rated boy toy and that you're looking for a deeper relationship and need to spend more time finding that person who you should be with. Chances are, this will scare her away, which will tell you that she wasn't the One anyway.

Jeff in Boston

[blackfoot]

Lieing and playing games like that just isn't my style. If she's not interested, then she's not interested. Rejection would suck but I'm not out to twist anyone's arm.

Exactly! All of this advice does nothing. Your original plan, asking her tonight, is the best. No prolonging the situation, getting false readings, etc. Someone said women want what they can't have. If this is the case and you play the game, is she someone you even want or will want you 6 months from now? She is either waiting for you to make your move, or she isn't. All you have to do to find out is ask.

[CEFranklin]

+1 The hints of money and a "real date" seem to be the common pattern here that I am seeing as well. If she wanted you, it would have happened by now.

I am wondering, are you the type of guy who is going to "wonder what could have been"? If you are, you're in for a world of hurt either way. :sad:


My friend, as someone who was in this position that you are (many, many years ago before I met my wife) I think she's taking you for a ride. The fact that you are cooking for her all that time (has she made you a meal?) and that she makes jokes about guys taking her out "for a real date" suggests that she's a queen bee who wants to gather a bunch of fawning suitors around her until she finds the Scott Brown in her life. The fact that after all this time she's not getting physical at all suggests she's just not all that attracted to you.

If you still wish this could go to the next level, I'd cool it for awhile. Make yourself unavailable. Don't hang out with her. If she texts you, wait awhile before responding and then keep it terse and non-committal.

Chances are, she'll probably drop you and hang out with her other suitors. Which should be fine with you because it lets you move on. If she does come back and asks you what's wrong, just say that you just can't go on being someone's G-rated boy toy and that you're looking for a deeper relationship and need to spend more time finding that person who you should be with. Chances are, this will scare her away, which will tell you that she wasn't the One anyway.

Jeff in Boston

[Townyj]

I havent read over all of this thread... But all i need to say is that girls can get under your skin quite easily, i have learnt my lesson many a time trying to figure out there motives.... Its actually not that hard to move on, just get out goto some clubs/pubs/gigs or whatever to take your mind off things. You will be amazed how easy it is to move on if you dont ponder so much. Its not the end of the world, its just part of life... Sounds like she is the one missing out and if you get out there and have fun, you never know she might come crawling back. Ignoring her to some point can work in your favour btw.... Playing hard to get has worked for me alot of times.

[perry]

The fact that you are cooking for her all that time (has she made you a meal?) and that she makes jokes about guys taking her out "for a real date" suggests that she's a queen bee who wants to gather a bunch of fawning suitors around her until she finds the Scott Brown in her life.


She's not made me a meal. She's brought things a couple times. And she's bought me supper at a sub shop before the party and she bought breakfast one Sunday morning. Now that I think of it, I haven't actually bought her a dinner out someplace yet. So she's not completely using me as a meal ticket.

[Nobeard]

I've been thru relationships like this. Years ago. And I've seen it happen to friends, both men and women.

As has been said before, you have to let her know how you really feel. That you want more than friendship. You need to know how she feels. Hopefully something will develop.

If on the other hand she just likes you as a friend, you will know where you stand and can go on from there. But I've found out firsthand that if she is not that into you (as they say) and you continue to stay friends. That may be tough on you. It may prevent you from seeking someone else who will want a relationship with you. Because you may spend a lot of time just hanging out with her. And that may fullfill some need in you, you might not seek out other women.

And if she is not into you and you remain friends, it can take a terrible toll on you. You will want her, but it will not be requited. You must then remain quietly jeolous about her seeing other men. Basically you will want her and can't have her, but you will be close enough to the fire to make you unhappy.

I've seen people spend years tied up in this type of drama. Better to know and move on. There are other women who will love you.

If it turns out that she does not want what you want , don't get wrapped up in being obsessed with a woman that you can't have.

You deserve better.

[Btheis]

Nothing read on facebook should be considered. You have no clue what context those things have been said in reference to.

She might be baiting you to see if you blow her off, blow a fuse or ignore it altogether because after all it is facebook.

Its tough trying to stay the course when you would rather get things moving in the direction you want, its even tougher moving on without definitive knowledge of where things are headed. Be honest and ask if she sees any romantic involvement in the future with you. Its ok for you to be honest and let her know you are still interested in a relationship, be it with her or someone else. Then if you wish to stay friends with her it will be much more comfortable, if not, you can move on knowing the two of you wanted different things.

[CEFranklin]

...She might be baiting you to see if you blow her off, blow a fuse or ignore it altogether because after all it is facebook...

To me, that says, "Get away as fast as you can!" if she is, indeed, "baiting" you :001_tt2:

[petr]

That's another game to me. If I did something like that, it'd be for keeps. Earlier this morning she said her stomach was already feeling upset knowing she was coming here later (the flu stuff started a few hours after leaving here Wednesday night / early Thursday morning, and she jokingly tells me it was my fault..). I told her not to come then. She said "of course I wanna!"

So, we'll see.

The thing is, it only works if you mean it and don't give a darn if she does split.

If I had advice for myself 10 years ago it would be to 'not waste time on people I knew were not right.' This is precious time my freind.

[Legion]

OK. For what it's worth, here is my rather harsh two cents worth based on my own experience.

A hetro, single man and woman can almost never be "just good friends". Inevitably one (or hopefully both) parties end up wanting more from the relationship. In this case it sounds like you are the one who has fallen. My condolences. While it is possible she is interested in you and just not wanting to seem "too keen", my feeling is that her behavior is intended to keep you at arms length because she does see you as only a friend.

Women are pretty perceptive about when we like them. Lets face it, men aren't the most subtle of creatures. They can tell. My advice is this. On your next outing with her, towards the end of the night, lay your cards on the table in as clear and plain way as you can. Let there be no confusion about your feelings. Simply say something along the lines of "look, I'm guessing you might know by now, I think your really great and I'd like it if we could be more than friends. I was just wondering how you would feel about that."

One of two things will happen. Either she will tell you she feels the same and has been waiting for you to finally grow a pair and ask, or she will tell you no, just friends and things will be embarrassing and awkward for you. If the second one is the case I advise walking away tactfully, taking as much of your pride with you as you can.

There is nothing worse than spending time with a woman you have feelings for when they don't feel the same. And it will only get worse when she starts dating one of those other jokers and you have to pretend to be happy for her. Trust me, I have been in your shoes. The time has come for your final play, my friend. Good luck.

[perry]

About 2 today she said she was feeling a little bad and would let me know an hour if she would still make it for dinner at 5. At 4:25 I text and ask if she'll make it. At 4:45 she says no, she's feeling too bad. I know it's not a lie, but, damn, she knew I was cooking and didn't say anything all day?

Got a damn pot full of beef stew and a bucket of biscuits. And she is giving me the silent treatment saying I didn't want her to come over anyways. I tried to call and she didn't answer even though she was slowly responding to texts. I'm ready to throw in the towel now. Hate to do it, but I am the type of person to give up right now and never look back. Do I give her the chance or just be done with it?

[mongol]

My advice is this. On your next outing with her, towards the end of the night, lay your cards on the table in as clear and plain way as you can. Let there be no confusion about your feelings. Simply say something along the lines of "look, I'm guessing you might know by now, I think your really great and I'd like it if we could be more than friends. I was just wondering how you would feel about that."

It's been long enough. Forget the talk and just make a move. If she doesn't respond favourably after all this time, then you know where you stand. Simple as that. So just get her in a good mood, a drink or two, some laughs, and move in for the kiss.

[Legion]

I still say you owe it to yourself to lay the cards on the table as I mentioned above. Once you have done that, if you do not get the response you like or if she is still playing games, then move on. But if you don't spell it out to her and make things clear before walking you might always wonder, "what if?"

[mongol]

Women, even in this day and age, still want men to make the first move, which seems to be the one thing missing here. She's probably wondering why he hasn't made a move yet, so I can't see more talk helping. Women are not the most logical creatures, as we all know :wink2:, but respond more to emotion and feeling.

[blackfoot]

I still say you owe it to yourself to lay the cards on the table as I mentioned above. Once you have done that, if you do not get the response you like or if she is still playing games, then move on. But if you don't spell it out to her and make things clear before walking you might always wonder, "what if?"

I agree 100%.

[perry]

Ok. I will try to find a time before next weekend to figure it out.

But I got a big ass pot of beef stew now. Anyone want some? Sheesh.

[blackfoot]

Ok. I will try to find a time before next weekend to figure it out.

But I got a big ass pot of beef stew now. Anyone want some? Sheesh.

I'm an hour and a half away. It will be cold by the time I get there. :lol:

[mongol]

Ok. I will try to find a time before next weekend to figure it out.

Figure out when to make your move I hope!

[muskokabrian]

Perry, I don`t mean this to sound to harsh, so please don`t take it that way but you sound like a pussy. By that I mean insecure, no confidence, probably trying to do things to please her, rather than do things that are natural to you.

In my experience, which has been good experience, women want a guy who is solid, confident, his own person, respectful because that`s his character; courteous because that`s his nature, but not ass kissing or fawning.

She`s feeling bad... that`s fine. You tell her your sorry to hear that, no big deal, you`ll freeze the stew and serve it up when she`s better. Tell her if she feels like talking later, you`ll be home watching the game tonight... and sound caring but not overly dissapointed, because you`re resiliant and shit happens and you can deal with that. You are a man and your role, no matter what they tell you on Dr. Phil is to be a Rock... dependable, strong, weather resistant...

If you are true to yourself and stick with your values, not trying to please everyone, you will never have to worry about this dating question. If you act like a man then the girls around you will act like women... they will feel the need to match your metrosexual, mixed up manhood.

Trust me on this... and don`t think I`m at all suggesting you have to be some tough guy. Anything but. Be a gentleman but be a man.

[muskokabrian]

oops, I meant, the will NOT feel the need to match your metrosexual, mixed up manhood.

[CEFranklin]

Hey I let my wife read this thread and she has known women like this. She says what is going on here is, from what she has read, is that this woman was never interested in you sexually and wanted to see what her "worth" was. By that she means, how much men will shell out on her.

She also says, you're being creepy by trying to stick with her through all this drama. It's a sign of a co-dependent personality. You need to take the "get a clue" approach.

PS - My wife says this part:


Oh, I mentioned I was applying for a new job at work about two weeks ago and she said, "maybe then you could afford to take me on a real date."

Should have been responded with, "Well, to be honest, I am kind of ashamed of you to take you out" and let her feel the sting.

My wife is EVIL! :scared:

[petr]

I still say you owe it to yourself to lay the cards on the table as I mentioned above. Once you have done that, if you do not get the response you like or if she is still playing games, then move on. But if you don't spell it out to her and make things clear before walking you might always wonder, "what if?"

I like this approach. Put all out there man. She's not a mind reader. Even if she is doing the "sabatoge" thing, you will have been a gentleman and voiced how you feel about it. Nothing ever wrong with that.

[Legion]

Hey I let my wife read this thread and she has known women like this. She says what is going on here is, from what she has read, is that this woman was never interested in you sexually and wanted to see what her "worth" was. By that she means, how much men will shell out on her.

She also says, you're being creepy by trying to stick with her through all this drama. It's a sign of a co-dependent personality. You need to take the "get a clue" approach.


Yeah but whom among us hasn't, in hindsight, done foolish things because a woman has gotten into our heads? I know I have, plenty of times.

It is very easy to see what someone should do from an outsiders perspective. It is never so clear when you are in the middle of it. And, although there seems to be a lot of drama going on here, no-one wants to walk away from somebody they like until they feel as if they have given it every possible chance of working out. My feeling is that this might not be "the one" for you. But hey, it's certainly worth making every effort to find out for sure. If nothing else it will give you more appreciation for the right one when she does show up.

[CEFranklin]

I agree, I was like that a little bit. I just thought it would be better to get a woman's perspective in here.


Yeah but whom among us hasn't, in hindsight, done foolish things because a woman has gotten into our heads? I know I have, plenty of times.

It is very easy to see what someone should do from an outsiders perspective. It is never so clear when you are in the middle of it. And, although there seems to be a lot of drama going on here, no-one wants to walk away from somebody they like until they feel as if they have given it every possible chance of working out. My feeling is that this might not be "the one" for you. But hey, it's certainly worth making every effort to find out for sure. If nothing else it will give you more appreciation for the right one when she does show up.

[blackfoot]

My wife is EVIL! :scared:

Most are. :lol::lol:

[mongol]

I like this approach. Put all out there man. She's not a mind reader. Even if she is doing the "sabatoge" thing, you will have been a gentleman and voiced how you feel about it. Nothing ever wrong with that.

He said she's come to his house pretty much every weekend for a couple of months. She's got to be at least somewhat interested. Plenty of chances - but has yet to make a move. He's been a gentleman this long, so more talk a la being a gentleman isn't going anywhere here. Essentially he's waiting for her to give the ok before making a move, and women don't like that at all.

[perry]

Yeah but whom among us hasn't, in hindsight, done foolish things because a woman has gotten into our heads? I know I have, plenty of times..

I'm trying not to let it get in to my head. I'm willing to walk away before laying it out with the way she behaved today. I didn't do anything to bring on that sort of response. How hard would it have been to tell me this morning that she was feeling bad? Why wait and let me cook the food? I really believe she had no intention of coming over tonight. She coulda said this morning, "Hey, I'm feeling bad today. Don't cook the stew, we can just order pizza if I feel good enough to come over."

I think CEFranklin said what I really needed to hear. Or his wife did. I'd sent her an email asking if she wanted to come eat the leftovers on Monday. If she doesn't respond, then I'll leave that damn crockpot on her doorstep and be done with it. If it wasn't for that silly thing... I'll be bored for a couple days without all our text messaging, but I think it's best for me at this point. I don't care what coulda been. I'm convinced she isn't worth my time any more. Thanks folks :001_smile

[Legion]

He said she's come to his house pretty much every weekend for a couple of months. She's got to be at least somewhat interested. Plenty of chances - but has yet to make a move. He's been a gentleman this long, so more talk a la being a gentleman isn't going anywhere here. Essentially he's waiting for her to give the ok before making a move, and women don't like that at all.

I don't know if I would say they don't like it. But it is true a lot of them will not feel comfortable giving the OK because then they feel like they are making the first move, leaving themselves open to possible rejection. It's one of those stupid games people often play when they are courting. Nobody wants to risk being rejected and feeling foolish. So they back and forth with little hints until one has the guts (or gets drunk enough) to make a move. My problem has always been that I lacked the confidence to see the woman's signals for what they were. Or, if I did see them, doubted whether I was just imagining them.

My current SWMBO, who is about as subtle as half a brick in a sock, plays no games whatsoever. When she found out I was single again she got in touch with me and basically said "You know I've liked you for a long time. I'm coming through your town in a few weeks. If it is OK with you I'd like to visit with you for a few days and see what happens." I tell you, although this level of forwardness was a little unusual and daunting at first, the lack of BS and game playing was very refreshing. And we are still together, so...

[Legion]

I'm trying not to let it get in to my head. I'm willing to walk away before laying it out with the way she behaved today. I didn't do anything to bring on that sort of response. How hard would it have been to tell me this morning that she was feeling bad? Why wait and let me cook the food? I really believe she had no intention of coming over tonight. She coulda said this morning, "Hey, I'm feeling bad today. Don't cook the stew, we can just order pizza if I feel good enough to come over."

I think CEFranklin said what I really needed to hear. Or his wife did. I'd sent her an email asking if she wanted to come eat the leftovers on Monday. If she doesn't respond, then I'll leave that damn crockpot on her doorstep and be done with it. If it wasn't for that silly thing... I'll be bored for a couple days without all our text messaging, but I think it's best for me at this point. I don't care what coulda been. I'm convinced she isn't worth my time any more. Thanks folks :001_smile


Well, sounds like a decision made. Fair enough.

[mongol]

In that case, what have you got to lose by giving it one more go? You'll feel more relaxed about the whole situation knowing that you're willing to walk away if things don't work out. Also, this will definitely make you more attractive to her if she's at all interested.

[mongol]

My current SWMBO, who is about as subtle as half a brick in a sock, plays no games whatsoever. When she found out I was single again she got in touch with me and basically said "You know I've liked you for a long time. I'm coming through your town in a few weeks. If it is OK with you I'd like to visit with you for a few days and see what happens." I tell you, although this level of forwardness was a little unusual and daunting at first, the lack of BS and game playing was very refreshing. And we are still together, so...

Nice...sounds like a good one!

[perry]

In that case, what have you got to lose by giving it one more go? You'll feel more relaxed about the whole situation knowing that you're willing to walk away if things don't work out. Also, this will definitely make you more attractive to her if she's at all interested.

More of the toying and games? If she says yes and strings me a long then where am I? I've seen enough responses to realize I'm being played.

I'm at the point where I don't really care if she is interested. Standing me up the way she did, regardless of how she feels, is just nonsense. Why put myself in a situation to have to deal with it more?

[mongol]

More of the toying and games? If she says yes and strings me a long then where am I? I've seen enough responses to realize I'm being played.

I'm at the point where I don't really care if she is interested. Standing me up the way she did, regardless of how she feels, is just nonsense. Why put myself in a situation to have to deal with it more?

Well, in your first post you mentioned she's a nice enough person that you'd like to keep as a friend. So I was taking that into account. Also, is it possible that she's become frustrated because you haven't made a move yet?

[Legion]

More of the toying and games? If she says yes and strings me a long then where am I? I've seen enough responses to realize I'm being played.

I'm at the point where I don't really care if she is interested. Standing me up the way she did, regardless of how she feels, is just nonsense. Why put myself in a situation to have to deal with it more?

Well, since you seem to be pretty sure about this, my next piece of advice will sound like a complete turn around to what I have previously said...

Give her the flick. Don't call her again. Leave the pot on her doorstep when she is guaranteed to be out, don't send her any more texts.

She will either a) Take this as a wakeup call that you will not be treated this badly and apologize and try to win you back. In which case you can decide what you want to do then, when you are not so pissed and it will then be on your terms. The balance of power will have shifted.
Or b) She will not call and you will have gotten the answer to the question I told you to ask except without the possibility of feeling embarrassed and awkward. At this point you walk away, dignity intact.

Basically, it sounds like this is now the situation and, if you have resigned yourself to possibly not seeing her any more, it is win/ win for you. :thumbup1:

[blackfoot]

Well, since you seem to be pretty sure about this, my next piece of advice will sound like a complete turn around to what I have previously said...

Give her the flick. Don't call her again. Leave the pot on her doorstep when she is guaranteed to be out, don't send her any more texts.

She will either a) Take this as a wakeup call that you will not be treated this badly and apologize and try to win you back. In which case you can decide what you want to do then, when you are not so pissed and it will then be on your terms. The balance of power will have shifted.
Or b) She will not call and you will have gotten the answer to the question I told you to ask except without the possibility of feeling embarrassed and awkward. At this point you walk away, dignity intact.

Basically, it sounds like this is now the situation and, if you have resigned yourself to possibly not seeing her any more, it is win/ win for you. :thumbup1:

Sounds about right.

[flatstick96]

Well, since you seem to be pretty sure about this, my next piece of advice will sound like a complete turn around to what I have previously said...

Give her the flick. Don't call her again. Leave the pot on her doorstep when she is guaranteed to be out, don't send her any more texts.

She will either a) Take this as a wakeup call that you will not be treated this badly and apologize and try to win you back. In which case you can decide what you want to do then, when you are not so pissed and it will then be on your terms. The balance of power will have shifted.
Or b) She will not call and you will have gotten the answer to the question I told you to ask except without the possibility of feeling embarrassed and awkward. At this point you walk away, dignity intact.

Basically, it sounds like this is now the situation and, if you have resigned yourself to possibly not seeing her any more, it is win/ win for you. :thumbup1:

I agree.

A few years back I met a gal and we went out a few times. One particular Saturday night there was a live music performance I wanted to go see, and I invited her to go with me. We picked a bar near the music venue as a meeting place and agreed to head out together from there. When I got there, she'd been there for awhile - apparently she had run into some of her friends and they were all drinking and having a grand time. I'd met most of her friends on a couple of other occasions, and I didn't like them much - but I figured I could tolerate them for a couple of hours until she and I split to go see the band we'd planned on seeing.

As the time of the show was approaching, I suggested we better be making our way over to the other venue; she knew how badly I wanted to go to that show, but still she said:

"Actually, I'm having fun with my friends and I don't really want to go to the show now - why don't you come and hang out with me and my friends instead?"

My response: "Two reasons, actually. One, I don't particularly like your friends. Two, I already have plans - as you know, I'm going to Antone's. You are, of course, welcome to come with me - or you can choose to go with them - but I'm not hanging out with your friends, so it's either me or them...your choice."

She chose them, and that was fine - I went to a kick ass show by myself.

When I got home, my roommate asked how the "date" went, and I told him. He laughed and suggested I call this other hot girl I'd met recently. I said: "Yeah, this girl tonight is probably not going to make the cut, but she'd been drinking, and maybe she wasn't thinking straight - she's got until Monday night to call and apologize, otherwise I'm going to take the hot schoolteacher out for a date and see where that goes."

Monday night rolled around, and just as I was about to call the second woman, the one from Saturday called, apologized for bailing on out "date", and asked if we could give it another go. I held off calling the second girl to give the first one another shot.

I ended up marrying that first girl - we've been together 8 years now.

Point is, I was perfectly willing to walk away if she was going to jerk me around, and when she saw that, she stopped jerking me around. I was lucky to get the "A" scenario described by Legion, but even if I'd have gotten the "B" scenario I'd have been happy, because at least I'd have known where I stood.

[Antique Hoosier]

Perry I am really at a loss to give you too much personal advice but I will say two things:

1. There are MANY quality women out there. You WILL find one that suits you but it might happen when you least expect it. A guy who can be as patient as you have been with this "girl" will win out in the end. Learn from this experience.

2. The woman I posted about as a terrible first date experience and one I had what I thought was ZERO chemistry and compatibility on December 30th on a separate Barber Shop thread, watched me shave this morning, gazing from my bed. She really likes Trumper Rose Soap and Floris Santal.

There is hope Perry.

[perry]

She responded to the email but didn't reply to the invitation. She's pushing the blame back on me. I guess that's how women work. It's my fault she didn't tell me she wasn't coming to dinner at 5 until 4:45, right? I tried to accept the blame (the conversation through the day was weird enough w/o me hinting at possible drama tonight), falling on my own sword, swallowing my pride a bit, so we'll see if she accepts.

I don't want to play games.. if I write her off, then I'll be done. I'm hard headed. She could come begging back and I'd ignore her. But that won't happen. I'm fairly confident that she won't give chase because of the way she is. In flatstick96's scenario, I would have walked out the door and not given her a second thought. When she called, I wouldn't have answered.

And, yes, I thought she would be a good enough friend. Past tense.


2. The woman I posted about as a terrible first date experience and one I had what I thought was ZERO chemistry and compatibility on December 30th on a separate Barber Shop thread, watched me shave this morning, gazing from my bed. She really likes Trumper Rose Soap and Floris Santal.

There is hope Perry.
Awesome!

[Uncle Erik]

Perry, you are already playing games and being dishonest.

Specifically, cooking for and attending to a woman in hopes that she'll date you is a form of manipulation. Second, you have not at all been honest about your intentions. You're being a pretend friend and hoping that listening to her complain about her life will manipulate her into sleeping with you. You're not as honest as you'd like to think.

The reason you don't come ou with the big story about the secret crush, months of longing, etc. etc. and beg for her hand is because that never works. I learned that lesson many years ago. I've heard it from lots of other guys. Not one, not a single one go a date from pouring his heart out to his special "friend." If you simply lay your cards on the table you will be rejected.

If you can't bring yourself to tell her that you're going out with someone else, then go to an online dating site, make a date with anyone, and tell her the truth that you're going out on a date. If she's cool with that, then she's just a friend. If not, then suggest going on a real date. She is apparently dating other men while she knows you're interested.

If you want to get your head around the whole "friend" thing, a man who is willing to go shopping, pick up dinner, pay attention, and listen for hours is the male equivalent of a slut. Any woman is thrilled to find someone who will listen, buy her things, etc. and expect nothing in return. Of course you're being used. It's just like a woman who will sleep with any guy in the vain hope of finding a husband. It doesn't work. You end up getting used and havin nothing to show for it.

You don't have to treat women badly, but you always have to put your attention in the context of a date. If she's not willing to date, you don't give her attention. If someone wants to talk on the phone, go eat, etc., then make sure it's a date and go in for the kiss at the end of the night. Otherwise, you'll just get used.

This one I'd cut off. Drop off the crockpot and anything else and don't bother with a note. Get yourself to an online dating site or make yourself into a regular at a bar. Meet some new women and make it clear that you want to date.

[Legion]

I'm not sure I agree with all that. Some of the people I know with the strongest relationships started out as friends first. It is just that the friendship evolved into something more for both of them. The problems come when that evolution of feelings is one sided, as it seems to be here. There is nothing wrong with Perry trying to kick this relationship off at a "friend" level. And just because he hangs out with her in a platonic way, buys dinner, listens to her, etc, does not mean he is doing it just to "trick her" into putting out. The fact that this gets turned into an "us verses them" game in which we win when we get them into bed, or they win when they get a husband, is one of the major problems with dating these days (and possibly back to the dawn of time...)

The goal should be to find someone who you can form a relationship with that is built on many things, not just sex. How can you find out about the other stuff if you go out there looking only for women who are serious about "dating".

No, I say stick with trying to meet people socially if possible, avoid the dating sites and bars, if possible, and make friends first. Then, if feelings develop from there, hope that it does for both of you. I believe that that is the best way to truly get to know a person, before you start "dating" and everything changes.

[Btheis]

If she doesn't respond, then I'll leave that damn crockpot on her doorstep and be done with it.

Best bet is to send an email asking if she would like the crock pot dropped off or if she wants she can pick it up. Even better would be to stop all communication for a couple days/week and let yourself cool off then proceed. IMO forget having any type of future with this person, it wasn't in the cards. No harm no foul, at least you weren't paying for high dollar meals/movies/drinks etc... Leave communication open but don't chase after it. You can always say you didn't feel she had much interest and cite certain examples if truly needed.

Never just drop something off on a doorstep, way to creepy.

[Btheis]

To me, that says, "Get away as fast as you can!" if she is, indeed, "baiting" you :001_tt2:

Could very well have been, might have been nothing at all.


Most times when I read these hey guys need an opinion threads on the net it normally has warning signs all over it already, nothing wrong with several opinions though.

[Kevan]

I agree with those saying cut it off. Even with a cursory read of this thread, I can see similarities between this situation and something I went through in college. Trust me, it's better in the long run if you just move on.

[Strikermike]

Sorry to say this, but it is time to cut and run.

[CEFranklin]

Keep the crock pot! We have 3 and use them all the time :w00t:

[flatstick96]

I don't want to play games.. if I write her off, then I'll be done. I'm hard headed. She could come begging back and I'd ignore her. But that won't happen. I'm fairly confident that she won't give chase because of the way she is. In flatstick96's scenario, I would have walked out the door and not given her a second thought. When she called, I wouldn't have answered.

Dude, what I'm saying is: "be in charge - lead, don't follow."

What I'm NOT saying is: "cut off your nose to spite your face."

Nobody but you can decide how to proceed; that said, here's how I'd play it.

1. Return the crock pot. Do it when you know she'll be home; remember, you're in charge - you don't need to avoid her. When you do, be cordial and polite, but keep it brief. "Hey, I hope you're feeling better. Here's your crock pot. See you around." Leave.

2. Go about a week without initiating any contact; if she initiates contact, again be cordial, but brief - she isn't the center of your universe. After about a week, call her on the phone, and ask her on a proper date. Be specific, propose the day and time and leave it up to her to give you a simple yes/no.

3. If she says yes, make sure you have something memorable planned. It doesn't have to be expensive or extravagant, but make sure it's memorable, and make sure it gives you some time alone at some point. If she says no to a very clear and specific date offer, walk away.

[Schweinhund]

1 point : less email, less text, and more speaking on the phone/in person.

This is probably why there was confusion, miscommunication, and unsureness about intent.

[VR6ofpain]

I think you got Just friended.

The fact that you are accompanying her to this party of a guy who she's dated means that you probably are in the friend territory. I agree with the above assessment, she probably likes the attention which means there is some insecurity there.
Yes and yes. Cut off communication now. You are wasting your time with this girl. If she was interested in you, she would have made it more obvious to you. She wants to be your friend, nothing more.

Sorry buddy. Time to start looking again. :sad:

[ogopogo]

It's been long enough. Forget the talk and just make a move. If she doesn't respond favourably after all this time, then you know where you stand. Simple as that. So just get her in a good mood, a drink or two, some laughs, and move in for the kiss.
I agree 100% with this.



But I got a big ass pot of beef stew now. Anyone want some? Sheesh.
Stew always tastes better the next few days anyway.

There is still the real possibility that she still likes you. But after just getting out of a 4.5 years relationship with a live-in boyfriend (that's longer than some marriages have lasted) she might have had cold feet in the beginning.

But too much time is already been wasted . Too many "just friends" dates is making things more difficult. Just make your move next time you see her. Like mongol said; get in a good mood, have fun, a couple of drinks...But don't start talking about "dating" or the possibility of "having a relationship"... If she likes you that way she won't turn you down, she might even ask you "what took you so long". But just don't start with the "relationship" or "date" talk afterward either....that just makes you sound needy. If she turns you down then at least you'll know for sure that is time to move on, and you won't be left to wonder "what if".

[Johnny Dale]

I am so glad that dating is far in the past.

However I would have a lot of fun if if I was to go back in time with the knowledge I have now.

[perry]

I tossed and turned half the night and ended up sending a brief farewell message around 2:30AM. I was actually just going to save it as a draft and hit the wrong button. Oh well. I guess that's what I really meant to do. Sucky, but probably healthiest for the long term. Thanks for the advice, guys and gals.

[raisindot]

Dude, what I'm saying is: "be in charge - lead, don't follow."


2. Go about a week without initiating any contact; if she initiates contact, again be cordial, but brief - she isn't the center of your universe. After about a week, call her on the phone, and ask her on a proper date. Be specific, propose the day and time and leave it up to her to give you a simple yes/no.

3. If she says yes, make sure you have something memorable planned. It doesn't have to be expensive or extravagant, but make sure it's memorable, and make sure it gives you some time alone at some point. If she says no to a very clear and specific date offer, walk away.

No, no, no, no no. Drop the pot off when she's gone, with no note or anything. End it. Be done with it. Don't call her. Move on. If you do, she'll start playing the same games with you again and you'll be back at square one. If she calls you, be cordial, say "gotta date, honey, gotta go," hang up. Don't answer texts--this is a just a way of avoding real communication. This one is a born manipulator, who's playing in the shallow end of the pool with the gupplies until the barricuda of her dreams comes along. You will never be anything more than a doormat to her. Cut and run. You deserve far better.

Jeff in Boston

[blackfoot]

I'm not sure I agree with all that. Some of the people I know with the strongest relationships started out as friends first.

I agree. In fact, I am one of those "Not one, not a single one" stories that don't exist. The main difference was, the roles were reversed. I initially had zero interest in dating the woman that i now been my wife for ten years. :thumbup:


I am so glad that dating is far in the past.

However I would have a lot of fun if if I was to go back in time with the knowledge I have now.

+! :lol:

[mparker762]

I was actually just going to save it as a draft and hit the wrong button. Oh well.

Protip: enter the address right before you're ready to send. That way you'll get an error when you hit send by accident...

Protip 2: never send a girl an email in the middle of the night unless you've got a really good excuse for being up (game went 15 innings, Three Stooges marathon, etc), unless you're engaged/married to her. Not even to break up - especially not to break up, and especially if she's unaware that she's in a one-sided relationsihp. It's gotta come across as one of those things that you just happened to think about while getting a beer from the fridge, not as something that you agonized about like a girl.

[Strikermike]

Here is a some what short story. The girl that loved me the best (and still does), is the one I paid the least attention to. 30 years ago I had two large Cockatoos. I had had 2 very casual dates with Lisa and needed someone to watch my birds while I went to DC to visit an older girlfriend to see if things might work out. While I was away Lisa defrosted my fridge and cleaned the apartment. I was only 25 and deep into my bachelor hood so these things were sorely needed. Well, things did not go well in DC so I came home early. Lisa never moved out and that will be 28 years ago in July. I guess my moral is you have been paying way too much attention to this girl. Don't say good by like you are mad or hurt, just kind of fade away If she is interested she will start making excuses to be with you. Time to play it cool though.

[mparker762]

While I was away Lisa defrosted my fridge and cleaned the apartment.

Nesting behavior is a pretty solid sign the girl is interested :thumbup1:

[perry]

Maybe I shoulda just done things my way and not asked strangers to begin with?? Everyone has something different to say. She enjoyed my company. I enjoyed hers. That was an important first step. Maybe I was just someone for her to complain to. Who knows. I guess I am second guessing myself now while sitting through a slow day at work.

I can see how you guys think she was abusing me but hell I cooked food I liked and it was pretty simple stuff really. Chili, enchiladas, Italian beef, beef stew. $5 bottle of wine one time. Most of the time she drank water!

It wasn't a one sided relationship. No doubt in my mind that we were friends. I just felt that she abused the friendship and was very annoyed.

Ah well. Live and learn. C'est la vie.

[ogopogo]

Protip 2: never send a girl an email in the middle of the night unless you've got a really good excuse for being up (game went 15 innings, Three Stooges marathon, etc), unless you're engaged/married to her. Not even to break up - especially not to break up, and especially if she's unaware that she's in a one-sided relationsihp. It's gotta come across as one of those things that you just happened to think about while getting a beer from the fridge, not as something that you agonized about like a girl.

Big +1 on this one.

that was a bad move.

[KarthVader]

You know, I don't mind it when girls complain to me, but the second it gets into their relationship problems or dating problems, I immediately lose interest.

I am not here for you to talk to me about relationship issues. That's what your girlfriends are for.

Perry, this chick may have been nice to you and gave you really great company, but if she is your 'friend' she wouldn't have bailed on dinner the other night. Friends have the decency to tell each other if they aren't going to make it. What she did, seems like a test girls make guys go through. It's pure nonsense. If you pander to their every wish and whim, a girl will probably treat you like crap.

Ditch the broad and get back to hunting.

[Dan Forest]

Life always gives us a choice as to how we choose to express ourselves. We choose which Life situation we are going to give our time and energy to. We may be fully "present" (conscious) or partially "present" to the Life situation we are choosing to deal with. You have chosen to give your time and energy to the situation you have shared with this group. This situation is about you and the choices you make for yourself. It is not about what she has "done to you".

People respond to situations in a conscious or unconscious way, so that they get what they want (positively or negatively) that fulfills their concept of their self. What choices have you made for yourself in dealing with this situation? You say you don't like "games", but are you playing "games" in this relationship and within yourself? Have you expressed yourself in an open, honest, clean (not passive/aggressive) and clear way? Do you really want to? Have you asked her the questions that would give you clear answers as to why she has behaved or responded to you or the situations the way she has? Do you really want to know the answers? Have you felt fear in dealing with this situation? Why? There are many questions you could ask yourself about this situation. The answers you give yourself are related to your desire to become "present".

I am giving my time and energy this thread because it satisfies Me. I am remembering what I have learned and am reinforcing it within myself.

[perry]

Interesting, Dan. Thanks.

There are unanswered questions. Do I want to know the answers? I took the "easy" way out, so I guess I didn't. I don't feel good about it and there's not really a way back from the way I worded things. I didn't want there to be. The way I felt, in the end, was more about the betrayal as a friend than about fear of romantic rejection. I'm sure they are tied together but... Maybe I did what I did so I wouldn't have to fear and face what I knew was coming?

There are many lessons to be learned here.

As for writing in the middle of the night. It made no difference this time really, and getting it sent may have been better for me. I'll keep that in mind in the future though.

[Legion]

I am giving my time and energy this thread because it satisfies Me. I am remembering what I have learned and am reinforcing it within myself.

+1 with this thought.

[The Knize]

Interesting, Dan. Thanks.

There are unanswered questions. Do I want to know the answers? I took the "easy" way out, so I guess I didn't. I don't feel good about it and there's not really a way back from the way I worded things. I didn't want there to be. The way I felt, in the end, was more about the betrayal as a friend than about fear of romantic rejection. I'm sure they are tied together but... Maybe I did what I did so I wouldn't have to fear and face what I knew was coming?

There are many lessons to be learned here.

As for writing in the middle of the night. It made no difference this time really, and getting it sent may have been better for me. I'll keep that in mind in the future though.

I just skimmed this thread. I have not been following it all along.

Seems like you did fine to me, Perry. It is okay and natural for one or another or both of male-female friends to start falling for the other romantically. It is okay and natural for that to often be uneven. And it is okay to feel a little hurt when it is. And it sure as heck is appropriate to create some space when one concludes that one is feelling overly involved for the circumstances. Sometimes it is a little messier than one might have liked, but what the heck--feellings and romance are not rational.

When things settle down for you, you could even tell her you were startinng to have those feelings and you thought it best for the both of you to back it off. But you have to stay backed off, if you do that.