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jherm77
01-22-2010, 04:04 PM
Hi gents,

Two expectations are certain: I want a Rolex and it won't be new. I still want something really nice, and with the mass amount of fakes out there, I do get nervous. I am considering pulling the trigger from this website: www.timeandgems.com What do you guys think? They have an A+ rating from BBB.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Sullybob
01-22-2010, 04:54 PM
I don't have any idea about this web site, but good luck with your hunt!

mparker762
01-22-2010, 07:40 PM
Wingate's (http://www.tic-tock.com/wingates/) has probably the deepest inventory of used high-end watches (including Rolexes) on the intertubes. They've been around forever and have an excellent reputation.

Jim
01-22-2010, 07:44 PM
Found the right page for you Jason-

http://www.tic-tock.com/wingates/watches/Rolex/Submariner/Mens/

DS/B MCS
01-22-2010, 07:58 PM
Hi gents,

Two expectations are certain: I want a Rolex and it won't be new. I still want something really nice, and with the mass amount of fakes out there, I do get nervous. I am considering pulling the trigger from this website: www.timeandgems.com What do you guys think? They have an A+ rating from BBB.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Which model you interested in and what's your budget? Are you a member of any watch forums? There are quite a few legit sellers on the different watch forums. Just a quick glance but, I'd believe they would easily beat the prices listed in your link.
AD's are also hurting for business, so don't mark them off your list too soon. If you are looking at SS models (other than the Daytona) you should be able to get a 15-25% discount if paying cash.

winkydink
01-22-2010, 09:13 PM
I can recommend Bernard Watch (http://www.bernardwatch.com) without hesitation. I've bought from them on two occasions and have been quite satisfied. I've also purchased from The Watchseller (http://www.watchseller.com) and recommend them highly.

Aevum
01-22-2010, 11:01 PM
remember a few things,
1) beware of bargins, Rolex is well known for protecting its brand image and therefore interferes alot with the 2nd hand market, it invests alot of money in rebuying stock and has a buyback program to make sure its watches retain their value even in the 2nd hand market, meaning that a rolex "bargin" is suscipicious in general,

2) know your seller, we might be use to the cheap chinese "trolex" watches, but there have been falsifications coming from places like china, turkey, eastern europe that use proper mechanical movements and well finished casings, which arent the common 5 buck on the street phoneys, they are still fake rolexes and arent worth the money, you can get a "proper" fake trolex with a swiss ETA.S.A movement and a well finished case for 200-500 dollars (depending on quality and finish) and those watches will even fool some experts when not properly inspected and disassmbled, thats why its important to know you you´re buying from,

3) and always when buying a 2nd hand mecanical, make sure it keeps good time and the power reserve is ok (should run in to the 40-50 hours with a normal automatic rolex), i shouldnt have to remind you that servicing a rolex can be expencive, you could find youself shelling out 400-600 dollars more then what you paid for it just to get it to proper working order,

betat
01-24-2010, 06:56 AM
In addition the classified section on timzone.com, check your area for mom and pop jewelers that may sell used watches or can find you what you want. I picked up my GMT II in such a way. I told the jeweler what I was looking for and he used his "network" to find it for me. Good luck!

mretzloff
01-24-2010, 08:14 AM
I suggest purchasing from the classified section of The Rolex Forums (www.rolexforums.com). Two sellers I recommend would be DavidSW and TempoKing.

texquill
01-24-2010, 08:22 AM
I've purchased three used Rolexes over the years. One was an online purchase - a genuine Rolex, but it had issues that cost more to repair than what I paid for the watch. I ended up trading it in.

The other two I purchased from local brick and mortar jewelers with good reputations. I had no issues with either of those, and both (one a 1953 model and the other from the 1980s) are still being used daily and running perfectly.

+1 to the comment about the cost of maintenance. A normal bi-annual (or so) cleaning costs between $400 and $600.

And no, I don't wear both of them daily - the newer one was present to my son when he graduated from university summa cum laude.

mretzloff
01-24-2010, 08:39 AM
+1 to the comment about the cost of maintenance. A normal bi-annual (or so) cleaning costs between $400 and $600.

You only need it every five years.

texquill
01-24-2010, 09:13 AM
You only need it every five years.

YMMV. I wear my 56 year old stainless and gold every day from wake up till late-thirty, and it typically needs a cleaning (including replacing the crystal), every 2 - 3 years.

Aevum
01-24-2010, 09:28 AM
it depends on the age of the watch, advances in mechanics, oil composition, alloys used and the replacement of glass and plexi with sapphire has increased time between services, a modern automatic watch can go up to 5 years, and omega claims that their coaxial escapement movements can go up to 10 years (i wouldnt test that one), buy if you but a older 2nd hand rolex, you might find you have to service it every 2-3 years,

jeffmeit
01-24-2010, 09:37 AM
I would first go to an authorized rolex dealer, I have never been to one that didn't have a big selection of used watches. Then you get to try them on, see em, talk to someone etc. Hey its always fun hunting for watches. And don't pin yourself in with one brand, try other watches. Whenever I see a Rolex the first thing I think is "Is it real", when I see a breitling, Omega, IWC, Patek, I don't have the same thought.

DS/B MCS
01-24-2010, 10:24 AM
I suggest purchasing from the classified section of The Rolex Forums (www.rolexforums.com). Two sellers I recommend would be DavidSW and TempoKing.

Excellent advice :thumbup1:

djh
01-24-2010, 10:57 AM
Seeing as you are happy with the idea of buying a used watch, I would suggest that you check the Sales Corner at Time Zone (http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=threadt&frm_id=32). This is a person-to-person marketplace much like here on B&B. I'm sure that you will find the pricing of the watches to be attractive (ie no middle men) and you will need to "buy the seller" as much as buying the watch, but hopefully you can find what you are looking for.

goby
01-24-2010, 11:03 AM
I would first go to an authorized rolex dealer, I have never been to one that didn't have a big selection of used watches. Then you get to try them on, see em, talk to someone etc. Hey its always fun hunting for watches. And don't pin yourself in with one brand, try other watches. Whenever I see a Rolex the first thing I think is "Is it real", when I see a breitling, Omega, IWC, Patek, I don't have the same thought.

I bought my 1969 Rolex Stainless Steel Date at Tourneau in 1993 for $1,000.00.

http://www.tourneau.com/Tourneau/

I might have paid a little more but I was guaranteed a genuine Rolex that was in great condition with a new bracelet.

My suggest is to not look for a good price, but to look for a reputable seller. And Tourneau has a great selection of other brands.

BTW, I had Watch AD, and my Rolex cured it. I haven't bought another watch since except for my backpacking Casio at $20.00.

Have fun!

Thebigspendur
01-24-2010, 01:11 PM
My only comment is why do you want a Rolex? There are plenty of watches out there the equal to or better than Rolex where you could buy new for the same price as a vintage Rolex. Everything about a Rolex is more expensive, the initial price, service, parts.

Many people who buy Rolex buy it for the mistaken notion it is the best watch in the world or it's a brand recognition prestige thing.

Now I'm not saying Rolex isn't a great watch, it certainly is. If you spend some time on Timezone you'll see the continual Rolex war that always goes on there.

Kouros
01-24-2010, 05:41 PM
A normal bi-annual (or so) cleaning costs between $400 and $600.


My watchmaker charges $175.

ssultan
01-24-2010, 06:31 PM
I'll second bernardwatch...good service and decent prices.

jherm77
01-24-2010, 06:57 PM
I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. The passion behind the argument is the same in espresso, knife, food, and scuba diving forums I participate in. We all have our unique point of view and it's great to read a wide variety of it.

I started my journey down the watch AD about 10 years ago with the aquisition of an automatic Tag in Trier, Germany. I've picked up some Oris's and a few Movado's but other hobbies led me (and my money) away. I am well aware of the maintainance cost of owning luxury items as I've owned two luxury cars and have a $2K+ espresso machine, $15K+ in kitchen knives, and $5K+ in core diving equipment etc. etc. etc. Price of getting good stuff.

Why do I want a Rolex? Same reason someone wants an Omega (I want one of these too, just not as bad), PP, Zenith, Tag, Seiko, or Timex. They just do. I make no excuses, this is 75% "look at me", 15% for quality, and 10% what I want. I don't second guess myself. Blame it on pop culture for wanting a Rolex. I know there are better watches for the money, but I don't care. Stubborn aren't I? ;)

jherm77
01-24-2010, 07:01 PM
I suggest purchasing from the classified section of The Rolex Forums (www.rolexforums.com). Two sellers I recommend would be DavidSW and TempoKing.

Thanks! I am gonna hang around here some.

garyg
01-24-2010, 07:04 PM
Hi gents,

Two expectations are certain: I want a Rolex and it won't be new. I still want something really nice, and with the mass amount of fakes out there, I do get nervous. I am considering pulling the trigger from this website: www.timeandgems.com What do you guys think? They have an A+ rating from BBB.

I appreciate your thoughts.

My 2 cents is that one could get a new one, from an authorized dealer, for just a bit more than the site posted. For the price of a Rolex, you might just want to motivated down to a jewelers, so you can see what you are buying .. As others have said, service is expensive, but my GMT is getting towards 8 years old & keeping COSC time

jherm77
01-24-2010, 07:10 PM
BTW, The Rolex dealer downtown knows me by name. The prices are set in stone.

I guess I didn't say what I am looking to get. A datejust, in SS with a white or blue background. Nothing too flashy or expensive. A new one sounds attractive, we all love shiny things. Unfortunetely the cost is significantly more expensive. Don't normally care about the price difference for items I want, just bought a new $45K truck, but that's apples/oranges. With the exception of vehicles and matresses, I like something vintage with a little character.

Verbal Kint
01-24-2010, 10:50 PM
I too am thinking about buying a used Rolex(nobody has to know but me). I don't trust the internet for big dollar purchases. I recommend going to an authorized Rolex dealer. They probably have used ones and you'll know you are getting the real deal. Most high end jewelry store sell used jewelry, you just have to ask for it.

betat
01-25-2010, 06:43 AM
My only comment is why do you want a Rolex? There are plenty of watches out there the equal to or better than Rolex where you could buy new for the same price as a vintage Rolex. Everything about a Rolex is more expensive, the initial price, service, parts.

Many people who buy Rolex buy it for the mistaken notion it is the best watch in the world or it's a brand recognition prestige thing.

Now I'm not saying Rolex isn't a great watch, it certainly is. If you spend some time on Timezone you'll see the continual Rolex war that always goes on there.

All very valid points. The fact remains that many of their models represent a classic, timeless design (no pun intended) that is both simple, elegant and practical. I think that any collector desires to "base" their collection with at least one Rolex, and then explore all the other great brands that are available.

Verbal Kint
01-25-2010, 11:22 AM
I checked Rolex's website and there are 2 authorized dealers in Colorado Springs, Zerbe and Jared. I don't know which one you went to but the last time I was in Jared the saleslady was trying to sell me a new Rolex at a discount and I thought these things never went on sale. If they know you are there to buy and not just look, they may be willing to cut you a deal. Especially if you have cash. Jewelry has been hit hard by the recession. You might find that you can get a new watch for not much more than a used one.

jherm77
01-25-2010, 08:08 PM
I have been living in Guam the last three years, I am moving to Colorado in March.

Verbal Kint
01-25-2010, 08:14 PM
My bad. Didn't pay attention to the parentheses.

ofelas
01-26-2010, 11:00 AM
I would first go to an authorized rolex dealer, I have never been to one that didn't have a big selection of used watches. Then you get to try them on, see em, talk to someone etc. Hey its always fun hunting for watches. And don't pin yourself in with one brand, try other watches. Whenever I see a Rolex the first thing I think is "Is it real", when I see a breitling, Omega, IWC, Patek, I don't have the same thought.
Excellent observation; in fact - I've actually had people ask me on a couple occasions whether my Sea-Dweller was a fake due to not having the date magnifier. :001_rolle

Kouros
01-26-2010, 07:37 PM
Whenever I see a Breitling, IWC, or Omega my first thought is "that has no resale value". Second thought: "is that made in China?"

Stormin
01-26-2010, 08:34 PM
Whenever I see a Breitling, IWC, or Omega my first thought is "that has no resale value". Second thought: "is that made in China?"
When I see a Rolex your second thought about IWC is generally my first. A majority of the "Rolex" watches out there are probably fakes.

And if you're buying watches worried about resale, you might want to worry more about brands like Patek and Panerai than Rolex.

rickboone1
01-26-2010, 08:56 PM
Reputable jewelers in the area are great usually. Overstock actiually has preowneds.

jherm77
01-27-2010, 02:15 AM
Whenever I see a Breitling, IWC, or Omega my first thought is "that has no resale value". Second thought: "is that made in China?"

I don't like Breitlings so I won't comment on that. I am surprised you write that about IWC's. Haven't saw any counterfeits, but I am sure they are out there. When I do see one up for resale, it's usually pretty darn pricey. They seem pretty good resale in my observation. Omega's aren't too shabby either. I've been trolling the sale forums for weeks at rolexforums and timezone and older scratched ones are going for around $1-1.4K while good conditioned recent ones are going for $1.8-2.2K. I am speaking of the seamaster and speedmaster models of course. They are not that much more new. Now, Rolex in my observation does hold it's value very well, better than Omega. Just sayin'.

DS/B MCS
01-27-2010, 06:03 AM
If you walk into your local mall or AD to purchase an Omega...you will get smoked on the resale. If you frequent the watch forums you'll know the Omega AD's that offer 25-35% discounts, so if you do flip the watch you won't get hurt too bad.
Panerai, Patek, and Rolex do a good job of holding their value on the secondary market. Of course, you have a much higher entry price for the PP. I've bought and sold dozens of watches over the years, and I have NEVER lost money on a Rolex :thumbup:

Sam
01-27-2010, 06:25 AM
I got my Rolex from the sales forum from Timezone and also got a JLC that way. Yes, buy the seller and ask questions. I got a fantastic deal that way on both watches.

Now, if you pay full retail for a Rolex, unless it is something like a Daytona, don't expect to recoup all of your money. And finding an authorized dealer to discount a Rolex, even 10% off, is not impossible, but it will be a bit of a search to do that. Rolex does guard for things like that.

I say shop and unless the cost of a used Rolex is going to net you more than 25% off retail, and if you can find an authorized dealer to sell it at 15% off, Id go with the dealer

blantyre
01-27-2010, 06:26 AM
From very limited experience in these matters, it seems as though Rolex runs one of the "tightest ships" in terms of price controls that even extend into the resale market. This keeps prices high making the new watches viable even at rather inflated prices. Most other mid-level brands (Omega, Bretiling. TAG) can be bought at not much more than half list price on the "grey" market and are perfectly good new watches, albeit with limited support. Used ones are also relatively inexpensive. I would also guess that the chances of getting a fake are MUCH higher with Rolex than almost any other brand - hence the incentive to stay with an authorized dealer.

Thebigspendur
01-27-2010, 08:50 AM
The reason Rolex watches sell for the price they do and sell so well is because the manufacturer has a total stranglehold on the product from initial sale to parts availability and service. Of course historical shrewd marketing helps too. If this were to stop the prices would tumble. Its all artificial no different than the De Beers people who have a stranglehold on the diamond market in the world. If they released the inventory of diamonds they hoard the price would tumble.

blantyre
01-27-2010, 10:52 AM
The reason Rolex watches sell for the price they do and sell so well is because the manufacturer has a total stranglehold on the product from initial sale to parts availability and service. Of course historical shrewd marketing helps too. If this were to stop the prices would tumble. Its all artificial no different than the De Beers people who have a stranglehold on the diamond market in the world. If they released the inventory of diamonds they hoard the price would tumble.

Agree with much of what you say. However, unlike diamonds, there are at least half a dozen other watch brands that are the equal of Rolex IMO, and much less expensive, largely for the reasons you state. If consumers did not lust after Rolexes and simply bought Omegas or something else, the bubble would burst in no time. Ironically in cars competition seems to work in spite of efforts to create impregnable cache and niche value. Mercedes mid level (E Class) range costs about half what it did 20 years ago largely because consumers have a lot of viable alternatives.

DS/B MCS
01-27-2010, 12:33 PM
there are at least half a dozen other watch brands that are the equal of Rolex IMO, and much less expensive

Off topic, but would you care to name them? I'm really interested to hear the "much less expensive" options.

jherm77
01-27-2010, 02:10 PM
It's intersting to hear the much more knowledgeable/experienced crowd speak up. I am not a complete dunce in reference to good watches, I at least know Patek Phillippe. I have noticed a stark contrast in the amount of Rolex's being sold in comparison to other watches. I have a couple of other hobbies where a specific maker is in high demand and well thought of (like Rolex), but it's almost impossible to get one, let alone at a good price. Whenever it does come on for sale on the forum, it's usually snapped up within minutes. I would say, as a rough estimate, that the sales forum at TZ and rolexforums (not a fair comparison I know) are at LEAST 1/3 Rolex's. More knowledgeable gentlemen, can you educate me? Thanks!

Jason

blantyre
01-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Off topic, but would you care to name them? I'm really interested to hear the "much less expensive" options.

Omega, Breitling, Doxa, Tag-Heuer, Oris, Ebel, and a few others make decent quality mechanical watches that IMO compete well with Rolex and are readily avalable at lower prices in most cases. The Omega Speedmaster beat out all comers in NASA's flight testing in the 1960s, so their products definitely perform as do Doxa and Breitling IMO.

Kouros
01-27-2010, 03:23 PM
Heck, a quartz Seiko keeps better time than a Rolex if you are "performance" oriented. If resale, pride of ownership, and sex appeal matter, get the Rolex. I've seen lots of Camaros that could beat a Ferrari at the track. I'll still take any Ferrari over any Camaro.

winkydink
01-27-2010, 03:51 PM
If you walk into your local mall or AD to purchase an Omega...you will get smoked on the resale. If you frequent the watch forums you'll know the Omega AD's that offer 25-35% discounts, so if you do flip the watch you won't get hurt too bad.
Panerai, Patek, and Rolex do a good job of holding their value on the secondary market. Of course, you have a much higher entry price for the PP. I've bought and sold dozens of watches over the years, and I have NEVER lost money on a Rolex :thumbup:


Buying vintage is a great way to "price protect" your purchases. Assuming you didn't overpay or buy some lesser known brand, you can almost always resell for what you've paid for it.

ofelas
01-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Heck, a quartz Seiko keeps better time than a Rolex if you are "performance" oriented. If resale, pride of ownership, and sex appeal matter, get the Rolex. I've seen lots of Camaros that could beat a Ferrari at the track. I'll still take any Ferrari over any Camaro.
I'd prefer a (Rolex + 1969 Yenko) over a (Seiko + any Ferrari) - even if I could afford to buy a Ferrari :laugh:

tlanning
01-27-2010, 04:48 PM
You guys actually hit my MAJOR 3nd love #1 is my family, #2 is the USMC and wet shaving is right up there.

I've collected The Rolex Watch for over 36 years.
Received my first 2 tone Date Just when I got out of Boot from my Folks who actually disowned me the week I graduated from high school and enlisted in the USMC. Long story My Brother's graduated from West Point. My 1rst Cousin just retired from the Air Force a Brigadier General, Stephen Lanning, Military Family.

They forgave me and I retired 32 years later and now own a respectable number of New and pre owned Watches.

My advice as a collector ORIGINAL is what you want if buying used as an investment. By this I mean everything from the Bezel to the Crystal, (not the one that came on the watch but the exact original duplicate). Diamond bezels, saphire crystals, Pearl faces all nice for your watch and not a terrible thing to buy aftermarket. Buy an original and add these things yourself if cannot find what you want. Otherwise, plan to own the watch untill you can take a loss.
An Original Rolex is like Gold, they appreciate. After learning this early on I have NEVER lost money on a watch and I've bought and sold a few.

Thebigspendur
01-28-2010, 10:42 AM
It's intersting to hear the much more knowledgeable/experienced crowd speak up. I am not a complete dunce in reference to good watches, I at least know Patek Phillippe. I have noticed a stark contrast in the amount of Rolex's being sold in comparison to other watches. I have a couple of other hobbies where a specific maker is in high demand and well thought of (like Rolex), but it's almost impossible to get one, let alone at a good price. Whenever it does come on for sale on the forum, it's usually snapped up within minutes. I would say, as a rough estimate, that the sales forum at TZ and rolexforums (not a fair comparison I know) are at LEAST 1/3 Rolex's. More knowledgeable gentlemen, can you educate me? Thanks!

Jason


Its all very simple you see. Rolex manufactures over 1 million watches per year and pretty much sells every one. The next largest Swiss manufacturer is Omega and as I recall they sell maybe 200,000. If you took every quality Swiss manufacturer and added up their production you wouldn't equal Rolex.

So why does Rolex have this loyal following? This is my theory. Back in the 1920s when Rolex started out they 1-were just another watchmaker, nothing special and 2-because they started out with wristwatches they didn't have to go through all the agony other watchmakers went through to adapt pocket to wrist. Many of their claims as to watch innovations are very liberal like their claims for inventing the oyster case and claims in relation to automatic watches and dive watches in general.

However they made a very smart decision back when the quartz revolution began. While other manufacturers had their heads in the sand rolex saw the handwriting on the wall and began to aggressively market their watches to a specific clientele and by the time other manufacturers caught on Rolex was like a rolling snowball and pretty much dominated Swiss watchmaking being able to continue their own manufacture of movements and slowly buying up their suppliers making them pretty much a complete manufacture (though not as complete as Seiko).

So that's why when you ask the average person who doesn't know squat about watches what they want to buy when the "make it" in the world most will say Rolex. There are a few other brands that are well know too but nothing like rolex and they continue to market and control the market to ensure they remain top dog and guard their reputation.

Just as an example, do you know if you buy a New Rolex in Europe while on a visit from an authorized dealer and you bring it back to the U.S it will be seized by Customs. You have to buy in the U.S. There is just an exclusion for Military who buy in a PX overseas and they can bring back 2 watches in their lifetime.

jherm77
01-28-2010, 02:26 PM
Interesting bit of history. I have not saw a Rolex for sale in a BX or PX overseas in about 8 years (last time in Germany), but they may still be there without my knowledge. I am currently stationed overseas (for another week), and they don't sell them in Asia! I hope they maintain a hold on the market, because if they don't people are going to have some hard to sell watches!