Tosuke Japanese Straight Razor Discussion Thread...

[joel]

This thread is for the discussion of THIS (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=160146#post160146) review.

Thanks!

[NYGuy]

Joel,

Appreciate the review (and other recent additions in the straight section). It is a great read as usual.

Did you purchase this from a forum member or directly from Japan? Seeing that the blade is rather thick, would you say that it shaves more like a Feather AC or a traditional straight?

Best,
NYGuy

[joel]

Joel,

Appreciate the review (and other recent additions in the straight section). It is a great read as usual.

Did you purchase this from a forum member or directly from Japan? Seeing that the blade is rather thick, would you say that it shaves more like a Feather AC or a traditional straight?

Best,
NYGuy

NYGuy,
That one in particular I was able to purchase from another forum member. The one I had custom made out of ZDP189 was from Japan.

I can't really compare it to a traditional straight, or a feather AC, as it is entirely different. While it is quite thick at the spine, it has a remarkable edge, as it is a tremendous mix of being extremely fine, yet VERY rigid. Really a cool razor. :thumbup1:

[dasein_geist]

I have a "Japanese version" of the Feather AC, along with the "American version." I must say, I am really starting to prefer the flexibility of grip choice with the Japanese version. Joel is absolutely correct, when he states you can pretty much reach any spot from any angle with a Japanese razor.

Of course, a major difference between the razor that Joel reviewed and the J v. AC (aside from the obvious) is Joel's razor is ground for shaving on only one side of the blade (i.e. asymmetrical), while the J v. AC has a symmetrical blade system, allowing for use of both sides of the blade (for me, this system is even more flexible).

Of course, you can achieve almost the same flexibility by rotating the scales and adjusting the grip, with a traditional straight (Note: I do say almost). However, I find myself a bit self conscious about deviating from the "proper" technique/form, and the scales and shape of the traditional straight do tend to get in the way. With the Japanese version, on the other hand, I do not face these "issues."

[AFDavis11]

Which side do you hold next to your face?

[sparky5693]

I often admire the quality craftsmanship the Japanese take in their work. I have never tried a straight, and looking at the beauty of this thing makes me want to try. I have an upcoming trip to tokyo, and osaka. Does anyone know of a retail establishment where something similar can be purchased? I have not seen any online vendors.

[SaveFerris]

How much did the custom made one run you?

Can you still buy the custom made ones?

[Lyrt]

The box is upside-down in the first pic and what the hell does shumagashi mean? :biggrin:

[The Invisible Edge]

Cor!:thumbup:

[tim8557]

ZDP 189 is the new wonder steel most recently presented in knives. Spyderco was amongst the first with the Caly Jr that, like this blade, was a two steel laminate. William Henry, who makes pricey knives, I believe offers ZDP as well. It is only available from Japan.

I don't know about straights, but the knives featuring ZDP are usually hardened to a RC of 65+. I would guess that you will not be honing often, simply stropping.

[sparky5693]

Can someone name me a place in Japan to buy one. Just an address. I'm lookin for a brick and mortar.

[dasein_geist]

Can someone name me a place in Japan to buy one. Just an address. I'm lookin for a brick and mortar.

Sparky,

If you do a search for "Japanese Razor" on SRP, you'll find several posts that discuss Japanese razor sources. From what I understand, there are VERY FEW craftsmen that still produce these (as Joel mentions, the craftsman that made his razor is rather old/ill, and is no longer making them). Furthermore, these are typically "made to order," thus making your finding them in a Japanese B&M store unlikely.

[sparky5693]

Sparky,

If you do a search for "Japanese Razor" on SRP, you'll find several posts that discuss Japanese razor sources. From what I understand, there are VERY FEW craftsmen that still produce these (as Joel mentions, the craftsman that made his razor is rather old/ill, and is no longer making them). Furthermore, these are typically "made to order," thus making your finding them in a Japanese B&M store unlikely.

I can hope, lol, and will ceretainly look.

[KingSlug]

This was a few years back, I purchased a set at a garage sale. The women sold me a set of 8 razors/4 hones/tile for $50, the husband/barber spent 30 minutes teaching me how to sharpen them. Besides the basic razors like Joel reviewed was a quite a large, a stainless steel one and one had a sharp angled point. The husband was a barber when he was young, before marrying and moving to SoCal.

Like Joel said they are wicked sharped and I couldnt control the blade well. I tried shaving with one of the razors and decided I wait til I had more time. Really the stopper was the handles as they are just squared steel. I thought about wrapping them in cord and knot work, then tried the rubber thingys that go on pencils. Nothing really worked. So I coated them in cosmoline and wrapped them in wax paper.

I am going to have to call my wife's Uncle Akira in Japan to see if he can find me a rubber handled one.

[joel]

Of course, a major difference between the razor that Joel reviewed and the J v. AC (aside from the obvious) is Joel's razor is ground for shaving on only one side of the blade (i.e. asymmetrical), while the J v. AC has a symmetrical blade system, allowing for use of both sides of the blade (for me, this system is even more flexible).

That is very much incorrect. I don't know who started that rumor, as it is quite prevalent, however the Japanese style razors shave equally effective on EITHER side of the blade - period.

[joel]

Can someone name me a place in Japan to buy one. Just an address. I'm lookin for a brick and mortar.

Be very patient and wait for a member to sell one, or one to pop up on ebay. Trying to order one from Japan is miserable, and I got blatantly robbed by one outfit.

They are VERY hard to come by..... at ANY price. I paid a tremendous premium to get mine.

[dasein_geist]

That is very much incorrect. I don't know who started that rumor, as it is quite prevalent, however the Japanese style razors shave equally effective on EITHER side of the blade - period.

I stand corrected.

Thanks for setting that straight (no pun intended):wink:

[rtaylor61]

Joel,

My understanding from Tony Miller is that only one side of the blade of the Japanese straight is honed for shaving. Hopefully he will comment on this.

Randy

[tim8557]

The confusion may be in the fact that many Japanese culinary knives are a "chisel" grind. Angled on one side; flat on the other.

[joel]

Joel,

My understanding from Tony Miller is that only one side of the blade of the Japanese straight is honed for shaving. Hopefully he will comment on this.

Randy

Randy,
I spoke to the man who actually made them (when custom ordering the one in ZDP steel) and through a translator, he made it vividly clear, you shave with both sides. I own 4 Japanese straights - 2 new and 2 ancient and I use ALL 4 on both sides with equally fantastic results. The different shapes/blade profile on both sides are to create a fine, yet incredibly robust edge.

It is not chisel ground - in that BOTH side are sharpened with an angle, the wedge side is not just straight down (a la chisel).

[KingSlug]

When I as taught to sharpen a japanese razor, first start with the flat side place against the stone, with your fingers in the hollow portion of the blade and stroke it back and forth several times. Next turn the blade over, with your finger gently resting on the back of the blade give it a few strokes in the direction of the spine of the blade and you are done. The honing is done with water, after you are done you take a tile the same size as the hone and rub it back and forth to reflatten the hone.

Joel is right about shaving with both sides but a barber will only use the flat side against your face.

I am going have to break my set out and try it again, but with the square handles they are a pain to hold on to.

Joel: Any idea about the large and pointed razors I have?

[joel]

When I as taught to sharpen a japanese razor, first start with the flat side place against the stone, with your fingers in the hollow portion of the blade and stroke it back and forth several times. Next turn the blade over, with your finger gently resting on the back of the blade give it a few strokes in the direction of the spine of the blade and you are done. The honing is done with water, after you are done you take a tile the same size as the hone and rub it back and forth to reflatten the hone.

Joel is right about shaving with both sides but a barber will only use the flat side against your face.

I am going have to break my set out and try it again, but with the square handles they are a pain to hold on to.

Joel: Any idea about the large and pointed razors I have?

Huh? I apologize... I don't recall what you are referring to.

Send 'em my way and i'll figure 'em out :biggrin:

[KingSlug]

Joel,

One razor I have is probably about 1 1/2 times the size in both length and height of my other japanese razors. What would a razor this size be for? Or is it just the 8/8 or japanese razors?

The second japanese razor I have comes to a sharp point, kinda like a tanto knife blade. Precision shaving maybe?

Also does the rubber handle on your razor come off? Are your other razor handles you have wrapped? and with what?

Thanks.

[M Guthner]

I am going have to break my set out and try it again, but with the square handles they are a pain to hold on to.

Easily fixed by some "tool dip" - if you dont like it, simply cut it off.

[TstebinsB]

Most traditional Japanese blades are single bevel. Although the Japanese make both, I believe double bevel blades are considered a Western thing. This relates to kitchen cutlery; for shaving blades I'm not sure. I'd be inclined to take Joel's word for it.

[Thebigspendur]

I've sold several of the Tosuke razors but the supply has dried up now due to the illness of the maker. There are others out there but locating the makers and negotiating production is almost impossible from here. You need someone in Japan who can do it for you and even then its not easy.

[kalle]

Those razors look cool!

Yahoo auctions ought to be a good place to get one. I found two running auctions when I searched there.
http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p86742276
http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m32786259

Search for
剃刀 （ｒａｚｏｒ）
ｏｒ
日本剃刀　（ｊａｐａｎｅｓｅ　ｒａｚｏｒ）.

[Tony Miller]

Okay, I just stumbled upon this thread again by accident. I suppose I am the one who started the horrible rumor of them being designed for shaving only on one side.

Here is what I do know. Mine, made by that same Master and personal gifts from one of his close friends is ground concave (hollow ground) on one side and pretty much convex (bowed like a glass lens) on the other but with a slight variation on that side. Typically it is used in one position only when being shaved by someone else like a barber. YES, it will shave either way but has a totally different feel when used otherwise as the angle of approach to the face is different. It is not chisel ground like a knife though. I do feel they were designed for another to shave you with, hence the general, "one sidedness" of the blade more than being designed for shaving yourself.

In some ways it is similar to those scientific sectioning razors that look like straights but flat ground on one side and hollowed on the other. These were for cutting section with a microtome, hence the flat side but will shave either way although they are far more likely to cut if used one way instead of the other.

[TstebinsB]

Those razors look cool!

Yahoo auctions ought to be a good place to get one. I found two running auctions when I searched there.
http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p86742276
http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m32786259

Search for
剃刀 （ｒａｚｏｒ）
ｏｒ
日本剃刀　（ｊａｐａｎｅｓｅ　ｒａｚｏｒ）.

Very nice!!!

[Xert]

Now if only we spoke Japanese...

[TstebinsB]

Now if only we spoke Japanese...

There's a bigger problem.

海外発送はしません。(Seller will not ship internationally.）

[Xert]

There's a bigger problem.

海外発送はしません。(Seller will not ship internationally.）

Well, I have always harbored a secret desire to move there one day...That or Switzerland, but they're pretty good about exporting their knives.

[TstebinsB]

If only I hadn't spent so much already!!! I have friends in Japan; they could buy it on my behalf then ship it to me. The first razor is only $98 with no bids and 2 days remaining. Oh well.. :frown:

[Xert]

Well, given that prices often double in two minutes, an auction with two days left really doesn't say much about the final price. Ouch.

[kalle]

There are a few companies specialized in bidding on Yahoo Auctions for people who don't live in Japan, since 99.9% of the sellers will not ship internationally.

I used http://www.crescent-shop.com/ once, and that worked fine.

[addicted]

Here is what I do know. Mine, made by that same Master and personal gifts from one of his close friends is ground concave (hollow ground) on one side and pretty much convex (bowed like a glass lens) on the other but with a slight variation on that side. Typically it is used in one position only when being shaved by someone else like a barber. YES, it will shave either way but has a totally different feel when used otherwise as the angle of approach to the face is different. It is not chisel ground like a knife though. I do feel they were designed for another to shave you with, hence the general, "one sidedness" of the blade more than being designed for shaving yourself.

Not to disagree with you or anything but... As a hopefull soon to be owner of this razor, I've translated a how-to page from one of the websites using altavista translator. It shows a man (and also a woman :biggrin: ) using this razor on his own. The translation sound like bad yoda speech but it says that you can use either side of the razor. Also says something like "without soap wiskers strong as wires they are" :smile:

[Tony Miller]

It will certainly shave as I said. A plane iron will also cut if installed in reverse but not quite the same. I'm just going by what my Japanese friend, a razor collector and user told me and my own experiences over the past 2 years with these. It shaves far better one way over the other because of the non-symetrical grind. The convex/concave grind either pushes the edge into the face or slightly away from it requiring that one compensate on the angle you are holding it if you want it to cut effectively each way. If I were designing something to work reversed as well as forward I would make it symetrical, if designed to be one sided I would go with asymetrical.

Tony

[addicted]

Now that you mentioned an angle, it did look different using one side vs. the other on the picture. I think the description mentioned the angle as well. I wish I could speak japanese.

[kalle]

I also found this:
http://pici.se/pictures/YM6wdS.jpg
http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g56326431
(length=154mm)

Apparently, it is an ear razor! :eek:
According to the seller, you could have your hairy ears shaved with one of these at the barber's in the past.

[Tony Miller]

If you have a Sally zBeauty Supply nearby they have a set of three plastic handled "mini straight razors" for woman to trim around their eyebrows with. The blades are maybe 3/4 inch long but basically these look like a scaled down Japanese straight.

Tony

[rucker3]

try this sight if you want one of these razors.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.babashoten.com/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbabashoten.com%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Mason

[rucker3]

If you're looking for more than one razor this guy: [email protected] quoted me better prices on multiple razors at the same time. aprox. $290 us for 3 and $475 us for 5. Info on him at: http://supertalk.superfuture.com/showthread.php?t=20345

Mason

[3rensho]

I didn't know that there was a market outside of Japan for these razors.
I live in rural Japan in the heart of rice and steel production.

If you want to purchase one of these through that proxy posted by rucker3 here is a rakuten link to send the proxy guy:

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/sugiyama/282344/488260/#773029

They are retailing for ￥７２００ so I don't know what the final cost would be in US dollars because shipping even a small package like that will be expensive. The seller only has 8 in stock as well.

Maybe after I've been here a while I could act as a proxy for folks, but I am hesitant to break any forum rules and nobody here knows me yet so for now I will just say if you need help finding stuff to send to that guy acting as a proxy I can assist you with my rather limited Japanese.

A nice hand forged 剃刀　kamisori can run upwards of ３万円（￥３０，０００）
They sell them at my local trans station. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned he had pointed razors, I believe what he might have is actually woodworking tools for carving, but I'd need a picture of them to make sure he isn't just describing the equivalent of a pen knife.

Some smaller knives are made in the same manner as a razor and are either unfinished handles with a bare tang or wrapped in 和紙　washi and then lacquered. If you are looking for Japanese style knives you can search for 和式ナイフ　washiki naifu which will bring up a bunch of Japanese knife makers.

I personally have my eye on a new locally commissioned nihonto for Iaido, but my wife isn't too keen on that. :tongue:

Good luck and if you need help finding something give me a PM.
I can't promise the quickest repsonse in the world, but I will answer you back.

Regards.

[bbg454]

anyone have a step by step (pref with pics or video) on how to hone one of these bad boys? I just got one and out of the box it pulls a bit.

[Thebigspendur]

anyone have a step by step (pref with pics or video) on how to hone one of these bad boys? I just got one and out of the box it pulls a bit.

The recommended method is by using a 12K hone similar to the Kitayama and doing back and forth strokes with downward pressure as you hone. 4 strokes on the concave side to 3 strokes on the convex side. The secret is knowing how nuch pressure to use. The other method is to use a diamond pasted strop .5 and .25 diamond in the same ratio.

[Thebigspendur]

If anyone is contemplating buying a Tosuke keep in mind that the guy who made these is deceased and there have been razors selling which look like the Tosukes but are made by someone else and the quality is lacking. The Iwasaki's are also getting scarce as that guys isn't making them anymore either. Once the original stock is gone that's it unless some apprentice starts making them with similar quality.

[bbg454]

If anyone is contemplating buying a Tosuke keep in mind that the guy who made these is deceased and there have been razors selling which look like the Tosukes but are made by someone else and the quality is lacking. The Iwasaki's are also getting scarce as that guys isn't making them anymore either. Once the original stock is gone that's it unless some apprentice starts making them with similar quality.

How can you tell the difference? I got mine from an ebay auction and the razor and box are identical to the images in the review...

[TstebinsB]

How can you tell the difference? I got mine from an ebay auction and the razor and box are identical to the images in the review...

Post a photo of the blade so we can read the markings on the blade.

[bbg454]

Post a photo of the blade so we can read the markings on the blade.

will do when i get home to the blade and camera...

[Tyrfingr]

Got to love japanse quality, i'm definately going to keep an eye out for one of these babies. :wink:

[jinenjo]

Does anyone know if these can be found somewhere in Japantown, San Francisco?

[jbedwell]

Edited: No links to live auctions, please.

[Klarion]

Man, did that guy shave with it outside and forget to bring it in, or something?

[jbedwell]

Such a shame to think about how much work went into that and then to see it neglected that way. Hopefully, whoever gets it can breathe some life back into it.

[RobC]

Munemasa Cutlery in Kyoto sells these http://www.munemasa.co.jp/english/

but they come to about $400 USD

[TstebinsB]

Munemasa Cutlery in Kyoto sells these http://www.munemasa.co.jp/english/

but they come to about $400 USD

They sell Iwasaki razors, which are available in the US for a cheaper price.

[RobC]

I often admire the quality craftsmanship the Japanese take in their work. I have never tried a straight, and looking at the beauty of this thing makes me want to try. I have an upcoming trip to tokyo, and osaka. Does anyone know of a retail establishment where something similar can be purchased? I have not seen any online vendors.

try this place

http://www.munemasa.co.jp/SHOP/M2212-402.html:001_rolle

[RobC]

They sell Iwasaki razors, which are available in the US for a cheaper price.

Where and do you realy look like that?:blushing:

[RobC]

Are any of these any good?

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/sugiyama/282344/488260/#773029

[TstebinsB]

Where and do you realy look like that?:blushing:

No. That's a Thai actress. :lol: My girlfriend looks very similar though. :sneaky2:


Are any of these any good?

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/sugiyama/282344/488260/#773029

That store is sold out. It has been for a few years now.

You're not going to find these Japanese razors at online stores unless you're talking about Iwasaki, Kanetaka, or Machida razors. All of them are still made today but they're also expensive.

[RobC]

No. That's a Thai actress. :lol: My girlfriend looks very similar though. :sneaky2:



That is so funny :w00t:

[CraigJ]

There is a guy in the San Francisco Bay area that sells Iwasaki razors. I have been to the shop and the people there were friendly and helpful. Try this link:
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05.001&dept_id=22924

[ESTEBE VERDE]

WOW! Just over the bridge! :thumbup:

[RobC]

There is a guy in the San Francisco Bay area that sells Iwasaki razors. I have been to the shop and the people there were friendly and helpful. Try this link:
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=05.001&dept_id=22924

:biggrin1: