Aggressiveness Chart

[TPeroda85]

A while back I saw a chart of DE's that showed how aggressive they are in comparison to each other. I tried searching for that today and couldn't find it. Does anyone know where one would be?

[AsylumGuido]

Here it is (http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Double-Edged_Safety_Razors_Ranked_by_Aggressiveness)

[hypo_style]

Fascinating. Thank you.

[dfrey]

I received a Merkur Futur for Christmas. It's the only DE I have ever used and I'm very happy with it so far. I'm surprised to see that it's entire range only covers the very aggressive end of the spectrum. Can anyone explain this?

[theinternot]

I received a Merkur Futur for Christmas. It's the only DE I have ever used and I'm very happy with it so far. I'm surprised to see that it's entire range only covers the very aggressive end of the spectrum. Can anyone explain this?

I, too, received a Futur for Christmas and tried the first shave on 1 and found it to be fairly aggressive, but not more so than my HD at a 1/3 less gap.

[SteelCity]

I wonder where the Cobra Classic razor would be on this chart.

[warlandsboy]

Wow that's hardcore! I will now try and decipher what all that means......

[TPeroda85]

Hmmmm very informative. Im trying to see where the flair tip fits in there. Someone between the red tip and blue tip i'd imagine?

[AsylumGuido]

Hmmmm very informative. Im trying to see where the flair tip fits in there. Someone between the red tip and blue tip i'd imagine?

Yup. The 50's style flair tip, also known as the Regular, was mid-range between the Light (Blue Tip) and the Heavy (Red Tip).

[MichaelG]

Do you know where a 1958 TV Special fits into the scheme of things? I'd imagine it was the same as a 50's style flair tip?

Thanks!


Yup. The 50's style flair tip, also known as the Regular, was mid-range between the Light (Blue Tip) and the Heavy (Red Tip).

[AsylumGuido]

Do you know where a 1958 TV Special fits into the scheme of things? I'd imagine it was the same as a 50's style flair tip?

Thanks!

Yes. It should be about the same, but the unique handle design really sets it apart.

[DunEdinRanger]

I, too, received a Futur for Christmas and tried the first shave on 1 and found it to be fairly aggressive, but not more so than my HD at a 1/3 less gap.

What setting did you use?

[Follicle Genocide]

With all of its popularity, I'm surprise to not see the DE89(L) on that list, unless I'm blind. :001_cool:

[michiganlover]

I received a Merkur Futur for Christmas. It's the only DE I have ever used and I'm very happy with it so far. I'm surprised to see that it's entire range only covers the very aggressive end of the spectrum. Can anyone explain this?

If that chart is to be 100% believed, the Merkur Futur @1 is just about more aggressive than every vintage Gillette razor ever made. While this certainly might be the case (I don't own one, and never will), the more likely explanation, is that the list is at best a general indicator of aggressiveness, and not as accurate as many perceive it to be.

1) The list was compiled by multiple people who are supposed to be using the same method of measurement; inaccuracies are bound to result.

2) Other factors beyond blade gap also effect aggressiveness (total weight of the razor, design of the head, and so on).

3) The list assumes very strict manufacturing tolerances, that all Merkur razors of a certain model for example, will have an equal blade gap; considering Merkur's known quality control issues, I find this extremely hard to believe.

4) The vintage Gillette razors have worn over time, and some of them may have been dropped. While the gap could have been equal when fresh out of the factory, I would never assume that two razors, that have had vastly different lives, are going to be even remotely similar.

[rainman]

If that chart is to be 100% believed, the Merkur Futur @1 is just about more aggressive than every vintage Gillette razor ever made. While this certainly might be the case (I don't own one, and never will), the more likely explanation, is that the list is at best a general indicator of aggressiveness, and not as accurate as many perceive it to be.

1) The list was compiled by multiple people who are supposed to be using the same method of measurement; inaccuracies are bound to result.

2) Other factors beyond blade gap also effect aggressiveness (total weight of the razor, design of the head, and so on).

3) The list assumes very strict manufacturing tolerances, that all Merkur razors of a certain model for example, will have an equal blade gap; considering Merkur's known quality control issues, I find this extremely hard to believe.

4) The vintage Gillette razors have worn over time, and some of them may have been dropped. While the gap could have been equal when fresh out of the factory, I would never assume that two razors, that have had vastly different lives, are going to be even remotely similar.


Great points.

On a side note. I wonder if someone could measure the gap for the merkur progress from 6-12 and get it added to the wiki. Only the 1-5 is listed. I have no measuring devices.

[Loner16]

DE razors are not precision instruments, and therefore I agree that each item will be a law unto itself to a certain degree.
They're made from sheetmetal as stamped, and fine castings as cast with very little to no machine work, other than polishing exposed surfaces for a finish pleasing to the eye. As such, manufacturing tolerances will necessarily not be very tight.
I see the chart as a very useful tool... It was very useful to me at least... but not the "last word" on exposure measurements on a particular model or brand... Just on the items actually used for measurement.
Still, I see it as a great guide, and an important part of the community. As with all subjective measurements, all things change when opinion takes over and the blade actually hits the face, where personal likes and dislikes become the decision making factor.

[soapbox]

With all of its popularity, I'm surprise to not see the DE89(L) on that list, unless I'm blind. :001_cool:

If you own any razors not in the table, please grab a set of $5.00 feeler gauges and help us out! It's an all-volunteer wiki. :001_smile


If that chart is to be 100% believed, the Merkur Futur @1 is just about more aggressive than every vintage Gillette razor ever made. While this certainly might be the case (I don't own one, and never will), the more likely explanation, is that the list is at best a general indicator of aggressiveness, and not as accurate as many perceive it to be.

1) The list was compiled by multiple people who are supposed to be using the same method of measurement; inaccuracies are bound to result.

2) Other factors beyond blade gap also effect aggressiveness (total weight of the razor, design of the head, and so on).

3) The list assumes very strict manufacturing tolerances, that all Merkur razors of a certain model for example, will have an equal blade gap; considering Merkur's known quality control issues, I find this extremely hard to believe.

4) The vintage Gillette razors have worn over time, and some of them may have been dropped. While the gap could have been equal when fresh out of the factory, I would never assume that two razors, that have had vastly different lives, are going to be even remotely similar.

1) I've added three of your concerns (1, 3, & 4) to the wiki page; the other was mentioned more than once already.

2) If you'd like to harness a hundred of your friends with the deepest collections of razors and provide them with feeler gauges, digital scales, and precision instructions (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=592727#post592727) so you can improve the statistical accuracy of the survey, please go ahead.

3) I'm also curious about a way to reliably measure blade exposure (http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Image:SHAVE_ANGLE4.jpg), so when you solve that problem, please let me know.

4) So far, seven people have ever touched that page to make a change or add content, and nobody has weighed their razors to provide that second measure of aggressiveness. Instead of smugly criticizing an all-volunteer page, how about adding content to it yourself? The wiki team could use the help.

[michiganlover]

1) I've added three of your concerns (1, 3, & 4) to the wiki page; the other was mentioned more than once already.

Thanks, that page is much improved, since I last looked at it. Good work!! :tongue_sm


4) So far, seven people have ever touched that page to make a change or add content, and nobody has weighed their razors to provide that second measure of aggressiveness. Instead of smugly criticizing an all-volunteer page, how about adding content to it yourself? The wiki team could use the help.

I don't think I was trying to be smug, just pointing out why many people advise against taking the page as gospel, and I was simply reciting what has been previously discussed as known flaws.

I will purchase some feelers gauges at some point, and measure my own small collection. I am curious for my own understanding, to know if my findings will jive with those on the current page. :thumbup:

[soapbox]

Thanks, that page is much improved, since I last looked at it. Good work!! :tongue_sm

I don't think I was trying to be smug, just pointing out why many people advise against taking the page as gospel, and I was simply reciting what has been previously discussed as known flaws.

I will purchase some feelers gauges at some point, and measure my own small collection. I am curious for my own understanding, to know if my findings will jive with those on the current page. :thumbup:

Thanks for contributing! Sorry to sound irritable, but I felt like the page had acknowledged that blade gap wasn't the end-all measure of aggressiveness.

(Do you have a kitchen scale?) :001_smile

[Nils]

4) So far, seven people have ever touched that page to make a change or add content, and nobody has weighed their razors to provide that second measure of aggressiveness. Instead of smugly criticizing an all-volunteer page, how about adding content to it yourself? The wiki team could use the help.

I felt guilty, got out my kitchen scale and weighed the two razors on the list that I own. I added my findings but later found out that Merkur themself give the weight of the Futur as 126, while I weigehd only 120. I decided to trust my scales more than Merkur *g*.

[soapbox]

I felt guilty, got out my kitchen scale and weighed the two razors on the list that I own. I added my findings but later found out that Merkur themself give the weight of the Futur as 126, while I weigehd only 120. I decided to trust my scales more than Merkur *g*.

:w00t::w00t::w00t: Thank you!

[Nils]

The astonishing benefits of a shaving forum: I had to look up the German word for feeler gauges. I didn't even know these things existed...

[soapbox]

The astonishing benefits of a shaving forum: I had to look up the German word for feeler gauges. I didn't even know these things existed...

Do tell! Ich spreche nur ein bißchen Deutsch... :001_smile

[Nils]

Auf Deutsch heißen die Dinger "Spaltlehre".

Now I just have to find one...

[soapbox]

Auf Deutsch heißen die Dinger "Spaltlehre".

Now I just have to find one...

Aw, shucks, I was hoping for one of the 45-character names that Germans love to make for things, like a "variablethicknessblademeasuringset"... :biggrin1:

[MrMoJoe]

Okay . . . but which one should I buy? :wink2: :lol:

[DunEdinRanger]

4) So far, seven people have ever touched that page to make a change or add content, and nobody has weighed their razors to provide that second measure of aggressiveness.

I am one of the seven and the one who measured the gap on the Futur. I can tell I measured it several times.


I felt guilty, got out my kitchen scale and weighed the two razors on the list that I own. I added my findings but later found out that Merkur themself give the weight of the Futur as 126, while I weigehd only 120. I decided to trust my scales more than Merkur *g*.

Time to weigh things...

[soapbox]

I am one of the seven and the one who measured the gap on the Futur. I can tell I measured it several times.



Time to weigh things...

And thank you for both of these actions!

[DunEdinRanger]

And thank you for both of these actions!

You're welcome. My Futur is loaded with blade, so I will wait till it is time to change the blade to weigh it both with and without.

I suspect the 6 gram difference between Merkur's number and the number obtained by B&B may be partly explained by the blade weight.

I wonder if the razor was weighed sans blade?

[soapbox]

I weighed a bunch of razors tonight and uploaded the results to the wiki. I found that there were some differences even among similar-looking Super Speeds, so I added weights for them. Even if the blade gaps are the same, I'd like to confirm that.

[Copierguy]

Too all those without gauges and scales. Feel free to box up all your razors and send them to me.....LOL

[thirdeye]

I will purchase some feelers gauges at some point, and measure my own small collection. I am curious for my own understanding, to know if my findings will jive with those on the current page. :thumbup:

John, send me the guage when your done and I will go through the 4 or 5 razors that I have and list the gap then there will be at least two with the same gauge used.

[soapbox]

John, send me the guage when your done and I will go through the 4 or 5 razors that I have and list the gap then there will be at least two with the same gauge used.

4 or 5?? You have more razors than that!

[michiganlover]

4 or 5?? You have more razors than that!

I caught that too, not sure if he was meaning to be funny...my razor collection is quite small. I tend to acquire too many razors, but sell/ pif the ones that I don't intend to use frequently. In my 6-7 months here, I have tried I am sure no fewer than 25-30 razors. My current collection is a very small 12 or so. :thumbup1:

[soapbox]

I caught that too, not sure if he was meaning to be funny...my razor collection is quite small. I tend to acquire too many razors, but sell/ pif the ones that I don't intend to use frequently. In my 6-7 months here, I have tried I am sure no fewer than 25-30 razors. My current collection is a very small 12 or so. :thumbup1:

Now that I've shaved with, gapped, and weighed my "collection" (I hesitate to use the title--my razor set is dwarfed by many B&Bers), yeah, it may be time to shed a bunch of razors; some PIFs, and some sales.

A side note: I was surprised at the variations in weight among the Super Speeds, though; that's an interesting find.

[DunEdinRanger]

You're welcome. My Futur is loaded with blade, so I will wait till it is time to change the blade to weigh it both with and without.

I suspect the 6 gram difference between Merkur's number and the number obtained by B&B may be partly explained by the blade weight.

I wonder if the razor was weighed sans blade?


Ok the "food scale" I used was not the most sensitive. It weighed 5 ounces, which converted equals 142 grams. I could not discern any difference sans blade on this scale.

[michiganlover]

Here are the results of my testing as promised:

I promised a number of people on this board, that I would measure the blade gap on my small collection of razors. I went to my local auto parts store, and bought a Feeler Gauge for $7.99.

I wanted to see how my razors would compare to the data that already exists in the Wiki:

Double Edge Razors Ranked By Aggressiveness (http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/index.php/Double-Edged_Safety_Razors_Ranked_by_Aggressiveness)


Here is how my razors stack up:

Razor Thousands of an Inch Millimeters

Muhle R89: .0295 .749
Gillette Tech: .0185 .470
Lord Tech w/ Merkur like head: .0265 .673
Ming Shi: .0265 .673
Slim @1: .017 .432
Slim @2: .019 .483
Slim @3: .021 .533
Slim @4: .023 .584
Slim @5: .025 .635
Slim @6: .027 .686
Slim @7: .029 .737
Slim @8:** .035 .889
Slim @9:** .038 .965
Schick Hydro-Magic Injector: .028 .711
Gem 1912: .0205 .521
Gem G-Bar .024 .610
Gem Bullet Tip Micromatic: .024 .610

-Blade gap calculated using a Feeler Gauge with 26 blades, and the same Shark Super Stainless/ Ted Pella blade.

**The Slim was following a definite pattern of being 2 thousands of an inch bigger at each adjustment interval until I reached adjustment 8. I measured the settings @ 8, and 9 twice, with the same results. The blade gap seems slightly different from side to side on this Slim as well.

[q345]

May be somebody who own this razor can provide the data ?

[WittyAg]

Looks like my trusty Merkur HD is right in the middle of the pack. Can't complain as the only thing I've used that shaves better are my two straights.