Smoker tips?

[Cheech]

I just smoked some more ribs. And a tri-tip. :biggrin:

They turned out pretty good. I am rapidly discovering that smoking is a delicate balance of time, temperature, chips, and moisture. So, as I go forth, any tips from those that have gone before me?

[jsrdrnr]

Whatever you do, dont rush it.

[tgarza]

It made me laugh when I read the thread title and your user name.

[Cheech]

It made me laugh when I read the thread title and your user name.

I didn't even realize that.

At least I'm not following my dog around with a baggie...

[aquilla]

It made me laugh when I read the thread title and your user name.

that was my first thought too :001_tongu

[Gravy]

For ribs I do what's called the 3-2-1 method.

After removing the membrane, coat the ribs w/ cheap yellow mustard and then sprinkle on a good amount of dry rub.

Cook the ribs indirect for 3 hours at 225*, rotating them about half way through.

Wrap the ribs in foil and place a few generous splashes of applejuice in the foil and put the ribs back on for 2 more hours.

Remove the foil and cook for 1 more hour, applying any sauces as they near the finish. Or spritz w/ applejuice, applejuice cidervinegar mix.

Yes, this comes to 6 hrs. And you can usually shorten the 3 stages but it's best to allow for extra time if needed. If you cook at 250* or more, you will have to adjust for this.
Use the best lump coal you can find and sprinkle a few chips in w/ them.

[Cheech]

I was noticing that smoking dries the meat. I've wrapped meat in foil before on the BBQ, and it made a huge difference in the juiciness. Sounds like that may work just as well in the smoker.

So much to learn. So much to try. Looking forward to making my own rubs!

[jasonboyd]

I've used 2 different methods, I've smoked the meat (mostly pork butts or ribs) until almost done then wrap in foil, and wrapped it in foil and cook until done then open up the foil and let smoke. Both methods seem to work pretty good, but I've gotten to where I usually smoke then wrap in foil. I'll season my meat and put in an ice chest for the seasoning to soak in for at least over night, longer is better though. I'll take a couple of 2 L coke bottles and fill with water and freeze to keep the meat cool, but won't melt and rinse off the seasoning like regular ice would. I normally cook on a smoker made out of a large piece of pipe or large propane tank. I'll get the fire going and put the meat on and keep adding hot coals and strips of oak or hickory that have been soaking in water to produce the smoke. It has worked good for me.

[danek]

Wrapped in foil doesn't allow the smoke to contact the meat; might as well use the kitchen oven.

I don't think it's the smoke that dries out the meat, I think it's long dry heat. People often brine turkeys and roasts, they sop the meat during cooking, they put a pan of water or beer in the smoker; but I think the best way juicy meat is to start with good meat - some that has quite a bit of fat and connective tissue.

A Boston butt is impossible to mess up and St Louis cut ribs are much more forgiving than baby backs. These are good cuts to start with. A brisket and tri-tip are much more unforgiving. Good luck and happy smoking!

[Cheech]

Cook the ribs indirect for 3 hours at 225*, rotating them about half way through.

Indirect? I'm not sure I'm clear on this, and would rather ask than guess. I'm guessing you mean directly over the heat v. having a dish, box, whatever, between the heat and meat.

The first ribs were directly over the burner. The last set had a drip pan over the burner. I thought that, due to the low heat, it didn't matter?

[danek]

Indirect? I'm not sure I'm clear on this, and would rather ask than guess. I'm guessing you mean directly over the heat v. having a dish, box, whatever, between the heat and meat.

The first ribs were directly over the burner. The last set had a drip pan over the burner. I thought that, due to the low heat, it didn't matter?

Indirect refers to not directly over the heat; the heat (coals, fire, burner) is off to the side. Food placed directly over the heat, even low heat, will dry out and toughen the meat. Think of cooking a roast in an oven vs. a low-heat skillet.

[WestTNbum]

I use a 22.5 kettle charcoal grill, I section off about a third of the grate with some regular bricks. Then on the large side I cover with tin foil. The small side I use as my fuel area. I only open one vent at the bottom and that is on the fuel side, my kettle only needs about a fourth of the vent to run at 225 to 240 degrees. I sent a pan on top of the coals to provide moisture, I use apple juice or some other fruit juice. I use the mustard and rub method but I do not foil. Remember to open the top vent wide open, use the bottom vent to regulate the heat. Make sure to put the top vent on the opposite side of the bottom vent you have open, it will make the kettle cross draw and provide better heat transfer. If you would like some information on rubs let me know and I can post some for you. Here are some pictures that might help.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/deerfear/lookinggood.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/deerfear/DSCF3863.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/deerfear/DSCF3862.jpg

[stobes21]

Indirect? I'm not sure I'm clear on this, and would rather ask than guess. I'm guessing you mean directly over the heat v. having a dish, box, whatever, between the heat and meat.

The first ribs were directly over the burner. The last set had a drip pan over the burner. I thought that, due to the low heat, it didn't matter?

On my BGE there really isn't a way to do completely indirect heat (and I don't have the plate setter accessory), so I use a double grate setup with a drip pan underneath the ribs filled partway with liquid (I've tried a few different liquids and I don't think it makes any difference. I'm now just using water). This does two things: first it creates steam to help keep the meat moist, and second it creates a thermal buffer that regulates heat to not too much more than the boiling temperature of water without impeding smoke. I've tried the wrap in foil technique and don't think it makes any difference, so I don't bother any more. This set up has worked very very well for me.

[ouch]

Paging Jim. Jim to the mess hall, please.

[Jim]

Paging Jim. Jim to the mess hall, please.


:w00t:

Generally speaking "smoking" Or BBQing is cooking in a moist environment, surrounded by clean light woodsmoke,the flame/heat is far away from the food or indirect. Every type of cooker is going to require a different approach and technique. What is going to work on a BGE will not work on a whole Hog Pit, which is much different than a Little brown egg.

On some of the BBQ forums there are threads thousands of posts long about small differences achieved in the same exact cooker!

As a rule of thumb I would look for a 16-18 inch separation from the heat source to the grill surface. A water pan or pan of sand in between the meat and the heat is also a good option. As illustrated above cooking the food offset to the fire is very popular in the Weber type grills.

The single most misunderstood recommendation I read all the time is soaking wood chips, You want thin blue smoke- free of creosote and turpentine, both are by products of incomplete combustion of wood. Wet wood does not burn cleanly. It smolders, making white smoke.

The foil debate is long and hard,we are not going to resolve this here, but I do not foil anything.

Time and temps- The meat is done when its done- let the meat dictate the terms. Most BBQ needs to reach a temp of 195-205. An icepick or probe is a great tool to check your meat. It should go in like its going into butter. Time and heat is the only thing that will break down colagen and connective tissue.

Grill Temps, Low and slow is the Mantra of BBQ cooks around the world-However a word of caution. The danger zone for food is over 45 degrees and under 145 degrees. Most cooks agree that you have less than 4 hours in that zone before you are creating a health issue. I recomend a BBQ temp of 245 or so to minimize the time the meats are in the danger zone.

Have fun!

[Lucius]

Wrapped in foil doesn't allow the smoke to contact the meat; might as well use the kitchen oven.

The meat only takes on smoke up to a temperature of about 140 degrees, IIRC. After that it really doesn't matter what you're cooking it in. I'll still leave it on the smoker, but if I'm getting pressed for time I'll foil it up and throw it in the oven.

Brisket may be hard to mess up, but it's tough to do well also (which in my mind is the same thing). I've found it hard to find a full, untrimmed, brisket in my area. Mostly it's just the flat that has had almost the entire fat cap trimmed off. I've used fat back and/or bacon laid on top, with a mop, to provide moisture, but they just don't turn out the same as if I've got a nice fat cap that I can trim down myself, while still leaving plenty of fat on to melt into the meat.

[Cheech]

:w00t: The single most misunderstood recommendation I read all the time is soaking wood chips, You want thin blue smoke- free of creosote and turpentine, both are by products of incomplete combustion of wood. Wet wood does not burn cleanly. It smolders, making white smoke.

Time and temps- The meat is done when its done- let the meat dictate the terms. Most BBQ needs to reach a temp of 195-205. An icepick or probe is a great tool to check your meat. It should go in like its going into butter. Time and heat is the only thing that will break down colagen and connective tissue.

Grill Temps, Low and slow is the Mantra of BBQ cooks around the world-However a word of caution. The danger zone for food is over 45 degrees and under 145 degrees. Most cooks agree that you have less than 4 hours in that zone before you are creating a health issue. I recomend a BBQ temp of 245 or so to minimize the time the meats are in the danger zone.

Have fun!

First off, I'd like to says thanks for all the help. I appreciate everyone taking the time to read and respond to this thread.

Next, the new questions! I've read that temperature is a better test than time (which is what it looks like you recommend). Do you pull the meat out when it reaches 095-205, or do you allow it time at that temperature?

When I don't soak the wood, the smoke is blue, but I wouldn't call it thin. It pretty much bellows out of that thing. Suggestions? While I'm asking, suggestions for wood?

Hopefully, I'll put some of these suggestions to use this weekend (Thurs-Fri for me).

[Jim]

First off, I'd like to says thanks for all the help. I appreciate everyone taking the time to read and respond to this thread.

Next, the new questions! I've read that temperature is a better test than time (which is what it looks like you recommend). Do you pull the meat out when it reaches 095-205, or do you allow it time at that temperature?

When I don't soak the wood, the smoke is blue, but I wouldn't call it thin. It pretty much bellows out of that thing. Suggestions? While I'm asking, suggestions for wood?

Hopefully, I'll put some of these suggestions to use this weekend (Thurs-Fri for me).


I always let the meat rest off the cooker after it reaches the desired tenderness. (Not temperature) 2 hours or more.

If you are getting too much smoke, can you use less wood?

Are you getting the cooker up to temps before adding the wood?

Any nut or fruit tree wood is OK, What are you going to cook? Hickory, Apple, Cherry, White Oak are all good choices.

[Cheech]

I always let the meat rest off the cooker after it reaches the desired tenderness. (Not temperature) 2 hours or more.

If you are getting too much smoke, can you use less wood?

Are you getting the cooker up to temps before adding the wood?

Any nut or fruit tree wood is OK, What are you going to cook? Hickory, Apple, Cherry, White Oak are all good choices.

So, look for tenderness to tell if its ready, and check temperature to make sure its safe?

I'll try less wood this weekend, and see how it works. I have been putting in the wood when starting the smoker. Should I wait? I figured it would burn less if it heated gradually.

I was going to try tri-tip again, since they always have it at the meat lab and it's really reasonably priced. But, you never know for sure what they'll have. Its a little of a crap shoot (not to say they have any bad meat - everything I've gotten there is great).

[stobes21]

The thing about temp and slow smoked BBQ is the meat gets well over safe temps by the time it is tender enough to eat. The USDA says pork is safe at 160*, but for proper ribs or butt you need to get the meat to plateau at about 180-185* and sit there for a long time to let the collagen melt. So by the time it is tender enough you're long past any danger of undercooking. As I understand it the best use of a thermometer for BBQ is to monitor the temp to make sure the meat stays at the plateau temp long enough and pull it off the heat as soon as the temp starts rising again.

[Jim]

The thing about temp and slow smoked BBQ is the meat gets well over safe temps by the time it is tender enough to eat. The USDA says pork is safe at 160*, but for proper ribs or butt you need to get the meat to plateau at about 180-185* and sit there for a long time to let the collagen melt. So by the time it is tender enough you're long past any danger of undercooking. As I understand it the best use of a thermometer for BBQ is to monitor the temp to make sure the meat stays at the plateau temp long enough and pull it off the heat as soon as the temp starts rising again.


If you let the meat sit below 145 internal for more than 4 hours it is a cause for concern, no matter what temp you end up at eventually.

[stobes21]

If you let the meat sit below 145 internal for more than 4 hours it is a cause for concern, no matter what temp you end up at eventually.

In my rather limited experience even a 200* cooker will get a large boston butt and any rack of ribs over 145* in well under 4 hours. Have you had problems getting particular cuts of meat out of the danger zone at 200*?

[Jim]

In my rather limited experience even a 200* cooker will get a large boston butt and any rack of ribs over 145* in well under 4 hours. Have you had problems getting particular cuts of meat out of the danger zone at 200*?

I would be concerned at 200 yes, especially anything like a shoulder clod or butt that is big and dense. At 200 you are also going to take a hell of a lot longer to complete your cook than say 235-245, maybe 3 or 4 hours longer.
I would not be concerned with ribs at that temp from a food safety standpoint.

[Jim]

I found this photo on a google search for thin blue smoke.
I do not know whom it belongs.

[Cheech]

I found this photo on a google search for thin blue smoke.
I do not know whom it belongs.

The one on the right. Yeah, that's about what the smoke looks like. Is that about right? Or a bit much?

[Jim]

The one on the right. Yeah, that's about what the smoke looks like. Is that about right? Or a bit much?

For that type of cooker its moving in the right direction. When it warms up it will more than likely diminish even more.

[WestTNbum]

The picture belongs to Alien BBQ, he is a member on the Smoke Ring. It is a great board for BBQ and Dutch Oven cooking. The Smoking Ring is great for any and all questions BBQ related.

[eightysixCJ]

Next, the new questions! I've read that temperature is a better test than time (which is what it looks like you recommend). Do you pull the meat out when it reaches 095-205, or do you allow it time at that temperature?

When I don't soak the wood, the smoke is blue, but I wouldn't call it thin. It pretty much bellows out of that thing. Suggestions? While I'm asking, suggestions for wood?



For ribs I go by feel (and time). For butts and brisket I cook until 185-190 degrees, remove, wrap in foil and rest in a cooler for at least one hour.

I find the volume and color of the smoke (when using dry wood) is in relation to the balance of the amount of wood in the cooker and the air supply. If you have a lot of wood, hot coals, and restricted air supply (closed vents) the burn will be supressed and it will produce more smoke. This smoke is typically more black and will put a sooty coating on the food (bad smoke). Opening the vents will allow the wood to burn cleaner producing a better smoke but more heat. You will need to play with your cooker to get the ideal mix of charcoal, wood, and air for the temperature you desire.

If you get a good blue smoke I don't think you can over smoke the food. I would add the wood early enough so you are getting good smoke when you add the meat. Remembering that the reaction between the smoke and the meat that produces the smoke ring and flavor only occurs until the meat reaches around 160 degrees, having the smoke in the cooker while the meat is cool is important. Most fruit woods are great, apple, peach, cherry. White oak and hickory are other standbys. Mesquite is also popular but will give a stronger flavor.

Adding a water (etc.) pan to the smoke chamber will keep a moister environment. I find mopping or spraying every 30-45 minutes makes a big difference also. I use about a 50/50 mix of cider vinegar and apple juice. In addition to adding flavor and moisture, the vinegar helps break down the meat.

I add the meat when my cooker reaches 235 and keep it between 225 and 240 during the cook.

Have fun!

Tom

[Lucius]

So, look for tenderness to tell if its ready, and check temperature to make sure its safe?
I always go by temperature (except with ribs). With ribs, pork butt, and brisket, you are going to be cooking them to temperatures well past the "safe zone" as has been said. You're checking the temperature to make sure it's cooked for tenderness purposes. If you're smoking something like a leg of lamb, that you would cook at the same time and temps you would in an oven, you're checking for safety/to not overcook it. It depends on the cut of meat, but I'm checking temperature to see if the meat is done, whatever "done" may mean.

With back ribs I know it's going to take roughly 6-7 hours at about 225 degrees. At about six hours I'll try the "tear test" and check to see how easily the ribs pull apart. That's how I gauge if they are done.

I like to cook my brisket to 210. Less than that and I find it's tougher than I want. I've never overcooked a brisket, so can't comment on how hot is too hot. I've heard a lot of people say cook brisket "until it's done" or "until it's fork tender." Neither of those things mean much to me. I've pulled brisket when I thought it was fork tender but it was still pretty tough to eat. I find 210 seems to be a pretty good temperature to shoot for.

I like to take pork butts to about 205-210 for pulled pork. But butts tend to be funny and don't cook real even. One part of it may be falling apart as you pull it off the smoker while another part of it is only 190 degrees and won't "pull" well at all.

The majority of other meats are typically cooked to the same temperatures and times you would in an oven.

[Hreafn]

Its the surface of the meat you have to worry about as far as health bugs, the smoking kills the bugs on the surface, thats one of the reasons people started smoking meat there are two types of smoking hot and cold, hot is where you cook the meat and cold is where you perserve the meat. I soak my wood a little bit it makes it last longer. As far as what wood to use i use hickory. Never trim your brisket fat=flavor. If you rub the outside of your meat with spices and one of them is salt you chance of bugs is next to zero.

[Bama]

i smoke alot of meats what kind of smoker are you using. i use a backwoods smoker they are expensive but they are the best! with st. louis style pork ribs your looking at 6 hours at 210-220 deg. what type of wood are you using i use natual lump coal and fresh cut hickory wood. if you decide to do a pork butt roast your looking at 12 hours same temprature as the ribs and pork tenderloins same temp as above but for 4 hours

i dont know how you are prepping your meat though that will play a big factor on how everything turns out let me know what your doing and maybe i can help you make some good fall off the bone ribs.. you will never buy baby backs again or buy ribs from a resturuant