Thoughts on kitchen knives?

[toucanlamp]

I've been living with relatives for the past six months or so and I'm planning now quite soon to go out and rent my own place, and I'm starting to go around and look for deals and such to stock up on all the supplies needed.

For kitchen stuff I'm wanting to get a set of knives. At all the department stores they have the standard stock of differing ranges of Henkels. I'd like to get something of good quality that can last. The thing I've noticed though is that essentially every single range they sell now aside from the professional ones are made in China.

I'm sure the pro ones are top notch but I can't afford to spend $600 on a set of knives at this point in my life. I noticed a deal on a 5 piece set, they look good, all forged steel and whatnot, but they are Chinese made.

I was just wondering if anyone had any reccomendations on what might be a good choice, and whether there is much of a quality disparity between the German made vs. Chinese made ranges.

I was sort of thinking to that maybe it might be a decent idea to just grab a few of the cheaper stamped steel ones, pearing knife, bread knife, chefs knife - I've used it before and they aren't bad or dull or anything, it's just that they can't stand up to much sharpening and don't hold and edge as well and so they're really just designed to last a couple of years before they are worn out.

Thanks for your replies

[Hughies_online]

Top quality knives are top quality period. Doesn't matter where they are made. There is a massive difference between cheap mass-manufactured knives and professional quality knives. Edge-retention, comfort, balance, longevity, ease of sharpening, handle composition, to name a few.

My suggestion is to look for Rockwell hardened (say 57-59) kitchen knives which give you some assurance of quality and dependability. Get the best you can afford and look after them. You will be rewarded everytime you use them.

The next thing to look for is good balance and what you feel comfortable with.

And please...Dont put them in the dishwasher!

[thunderball]

I'm a fan of these (my newest purchase):

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s257/nuskool73/P1020664.jpg

Scary sharp.

[galopede]

I had some Globals but sold them on as I didn't get on with the handles. They would hurt my hand as the shape was odd! Good knives though.

My suggestion would be that you seldom use all the knives in a set. You would be better off buying a good quality chef's knife such as those Henckles you mention and a smaller paring/vegetable knife first. You my find that's all you need. Add a decent bread knife and maybe a long carver later and you'd be set for life.

There are several quality manufacturers of knives and you'll get as many people saying each one is best! I have collected a few good ones over the years and only one or two get regular use by me. I Wusthof chef's knife for heavy veg like swede and turnips, a Japanese chef's knife which is brilliant for slicing but no good hacking up solid stuff and a Japanes Santoku I use for making sandwiches all spring to mind.

My most used knife though is an old carbon steel French Sabatier chef's knife. It does everything well.

Here's looking to a new AD!

Gareth

[WhosYerBob]

My suggestion would be that you seldom use all the knives in a set. You would be better off buying a good quality chef's knife such as those Henckles you mention and a smaller paring/vegetable knife first. You my find that's all you need. Add a decent bread knife and maybe a long carver later and you'd be set for life.
+1 What he said.

For over 20 years we've had one mid-level chef's knife, a top-end paring knife, a mid-level bread knife and an assortment of cheapies with decent blades. What I've found to be far more important is keeping them sharp; I use three grades of diamond hones and all of them - including the cheapies - have extremely sharp edges.

[lamina]

Please do not make the classical error: one for vegetables, one for fish, one for meat etc etc etc...That said, along the years i discovered all those fancy knifes i own are useless, just a waste of money and a waste of space in your work table(wood blocks storage or magnetic shelves) and they will dull because not being used or always being handled just to make space for another one in the drawer. Here it's not about the tools you own but the quality of your technique: if you can handle properly a knife you can do wonders with a single one Chef's knife and it will cover 99,90% of your operations in any kitchen.Once i was working in a nice hotel and we are expecting a japanese known Chef for a 2 days workshop...everyone was expectant, let's see wich samurai swords it will bring...maybe one of those knifes made by an obscure cutlery mastercraft of Seki region.When he open his bag he just had a nice 8'' santoku knife and gave us the same advice : only one is needed, your hand in an extension of your brain, and your brain should be mastered by your work and technique. One hand, one knife, handle it well.

That said, buy just a good one,take your time, look for a 6'' or 8'' Chef knife stainless steel.See the balance, the weight, how it fits on your operating hand, see the handle without any depressions or bumps (if you work 7 to 8 hrs with one you will see why that blister came...) if you feel comfortable with it, your tastes (Santoku, Yatagan,Tanto?). The good one it's not the most expensive one: why to buy a USD 500 knife if you are just starting? Take a mid-range knife just to see how you adapt to the knife. With time you will see your knife covers 99.90 of your operations in kitchen, use the tip of blade for delicacies and delicate operations, the middle for regular operations, slicing vegetables and so on and the edge near the handle to cut large pieces of meat or heavy operations.

Please do not open cans with....and buy a wood block or a silicone sheat, anything but keep the blade protected all the time, when not in use, or keep the original package meanwhile. And buy a stone too (6000, 8000 or if you are a purist a 12000) and learn how to use it, of course.

Once no one told me that simple rule: one is enough!!:wink: If you make progresses and the Cuisine bug bites you, you will buy a better knife, with your name laser engraved on it!! If not, perfect too, it was just a 70 USD knife and not a set of 50 items, seashells knifes included!!!:lol:

Next step after buying one: go to the web and see...how to grab a chef knife?

[WhosYerBob]

Please do not open cans with...
YES - I speak from experience! Tried to punch open a can with a chef's knife when I was a teen and nearly severed the pinkie from my left hand. Just don't do it.

[ouch]

Want to spend $600 on a set of knives? You may as well open your window and throw $300 to the breeze, since you won't be using half (or more) of them. Sets are a bad idea. Start by getting one good chef's knife. Afterwards, you'll be able to figure out what you need in a second knife. Depending on the type of cooking you do, it may be a cleaver, slicer, parer, or boning knife.

Search the forum- you'll be surprised how many threads we have on this subject, and how much information you'll find.

[tsmba]

There is a ton of info online, much of it here (as Ouch stated). The almost-universal advice is DO NOT buy a set. My own advice is to first find a chef's knife that you like (a good seller will let you try them) and a paring knife. Then, add as needed. Its critical to protect your new blade, something that can be as simple as a plastic sheath. Never throw it in a drawer or dishwasher.

Rather than spending cash on a set, you would be FAR better off buying a knife or two that suits you, a way to protect them, a good cutting board, and tools to maintain the edge.

Good starting points for advice are: Fred's cutlery section of foodieforums, the kitchen section of knifeforums, Chadwrites, and (of course) Cook's Illustrated. If you have a Williams-Sonoma or Sur LeTable around, by all means check them out....once you locate a knife you like, find an online seller with a good price. For my money, none are better than knifemerchant.com.....its run by a couple chefs and they are more than happy to assist!

[Lucius]

As far as cheaper knives go, I'm pretty happy with my Forschners.

[mainaman]

Japanese knives are arguably the best knives you can get, they beat anything made by Henckels/Wusthof and the likes easily (except one of the Henckels lines which uses good steel).
Tojiro DP, Masamoto, Togiharu, are great brands with decent pricing.
You need a few stones to touch up the knives from time to time.
As far as what knives you need, I think the basic and most useful set is chefs, paring, bread knife.
One of the best options on bread knife is the MAC SB-105 .

[BobS]

As far as cheaper knives go, I'm pretty happy with my Forschners.

+1 on Forschners. There is a good thread below about the Cooks Illustrated knife study and they name Forschner as a best buy. Not the best knife, but pretty darn good at about $29.

I am not trying to get you to buy Forschners, just giving you a reasonable priced option.

+1 on the idea of buying a few specific knives

For me, I like three knives. A Chef's Knife, good paring knife (~ 4.5" blade), and a 12" slicing knife for bread etc.

[Dowdy-Pants]

Forschners are a great value... as are Dexter Russell brand knives. Globals really are fantastic, but the handle takes some getting used to... and not something I personally like (but many chefs, including Anthony Bourdain, go gah gah over them). I find them to be too slippery.

My personal favs are Wusthof. The balance, cut, and overall quality are tough to beat.

[Topgumby]

As far as cheaper knives go, I'm pretty happy with my Forschners.

I'm pleased with mine, too. Best bang for the buck. There are certainly better knives out there, but not at the price point.

[bob.e]

I have the Rachel Ray Asian Knives by Furi and like them very much, they are santuko's basically a 5" and 7" they are about $99 for the pair I've also got the furi "Froggy" a single handle twin blade "rocker" which is amazing for dicing and mincing I use a chantry knife sharpener

[Alacrity59]

I use a 1000x water stone to maintain my non-Japanese kitchen knives. For me this is sufficient. I use either a chefs knife or paring knife for 99% of what I do in the kitchen. Most of my bachelor years I used only a small paring knife for everything . . . then again I never cooked a turkey or roast . . . and dicing and slicing everything else was almost as easy with that small blade.

[toucanlamp]

Maybe unfortunately I didn't end up following the advice too closely! I was out looking at a number of places today. I ended up buying a set, the Henkel Classic set. It comes with a paring knife, utility knife, boning knife, bread knife, and 8 inch chef's knife. They're made in Spain, I think their probably the middle range of Henkel knives, not the cheap stamped metal Chinese ones but not the German ones. They're forged and felt good in the hand and seem very nice and solid with good handles. I'm sure the steel isn't of the same quality as the top lines.

I'm sure there are lots of deals online, but I'm in Canada and ordering anything across the border is always a nightmare and so costly it's just not worth it.

I'm certainly no expert chef so I doubt I'd notice the difference, and these ones probably won't last forever with a good edge like the top of the line ones, but the deal was really good, 50% off and the last set in the store.

It might be nice, but I'm no rich guy and am going to need my cash for living expenses in the time coming up, and I couldn't justify dropping almost $200 on a single knife. They had the Henkel Japanese style series which looked really cool, with round handles and all, but they were insanely expensive, I think the larger Chef's knife was something like $350.

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it greatly, I'll definitely use it at some point in the future when I'd like to upgrade to something top notch.

[DS/B MCS]

We use mostly custom knives in our kitchen, but have given some of these as Christmas gifts for the last few years.
http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-forged-steak-knife-pakkawood/p/AGKKhhh4ST/

http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-forged-10-professional-chefs-knife-pakkawood/p/AGKKhhh10/

I don't know of a better value for the money.

[Alacrity59]

Maybe unfortunately I didn't end up following the advice too closely! I was out looking at a number of places today. I ended up buying a set, the Henkel Classic set. It comes with a paring knife, utility knife, boning knife, bread knife, and 8 inch chef's knife. They're made in Spain, I think their probably the middle range of Henkel knives, not the cheap stamped metal Chinese ones but not the German ones. They're forged and felt good in the hand and seem very nice and solid with good handles. I'm sure the steel isn't of the same quality as the top lines.

I'm sure there are lots of deals online, but I'm in Canada and ordering anything across the border is always a nightmare and so costly it's just not worth it.

I'm certainly no expert chef so I doubt I'd notice the difference, and these ones probably won't last forever with a good edge like the top of the line ones, but the deal was really good, 50% off and the last set in the store.

It might be nice, but I'm no rich guy and am going to need my cash for living expenses in the time coming up, and I couldn't justify dropping almost $200 on a single knife. They had the Henkel Japanese style series which looked really cool, with round handles and all, but they were insanely expensive, I think the larger Chef's knife was something like $350.

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it greatly, I'll definitely use it at some point in the future when I'd like to upgrade to something top notch.

This is a fine set and will last a life time. Keep them out of the dishwasher and sharpen or have a service do it from time to time depending on use. Here in the Toronto area I've used Nella cutlery who do work for a lot of restaurants and butcher shops. . . about $3.00 per knife. (I did this to review their service. They did a fine job. Normally I sharpen my own knife)

[toucanlamp]

This is a fine set and will last a life time. Keep them out of the dishwasher and sharpen or have a service do it from time to time depending on use. Here in the Toronto area I've used Nella cutlery who do work for a lot of restaurants and butcher shops. . . about $3.00 per knife. (I did this to review their service. They did a fine job. Normally I sharpen my own knife)

Thanks for the advice, how often do you think a knife should be taken to be sharpened? This set came with a steel for sharpening, but isn't that more kind of like what stropping is to a straight razor, just prepping the edge for immediate use?

And yeah it's kind of funny, on the side of the box along with the other points about the knives it says "Dishwasher safe" with a * beside it and at the bottom says "* Not reccomended by Henckel".

[Maduro]

A few years ago I put together a set of Shun knives from Japan.
They are made of Damascus steel and are unbelievably sharp out of the box, I actually shaved hair off of my arm! Thay keep a great edge and look fantastic.
I also have a few Kyocera ceramic knives especially to cut citrus with.
Even though the Shuns are stainless I just prefer to keep them away from the acids in citrus.

[Stubblefield]

As far as cheaper knives go, I'm pretty happy with my Forschners.
I had several of those and they were great. I switched over to the Forschner Soligens and have been pretty happy as well. They hold a decent edge and are not tough to sharpen. I have a 8" and 10" Chefs, a 10" slicer, and that's it. All you need, really--In fact I could dump the 8", I never use it.

But my favorite knife is my Dexter Russell SofGrip, 10" Stamped steel chef's knife. Sharpens easily and is a joy to handle. And it's washable in the dishwasher. Puts far more expensive knives to shame. The can be picked up for around $30, and are excellent prep knives. Everyone should have one.

[aodenkou]

I use a few knives over and over again. Parring, boning, chef, bread knife, and a slicing knife. Over the years I have upgraded the quality of knives I have as my knife skills improve. So I have have several quality levels of knifes in my drawer (each kept separate and safe). When I first started to buy "quality" knives I did not have a lot to chose from and I would go to a restaurant supply store and buy their top end knives. Today you have some really good kitchen ware stores that will have a wide variety of knives to choose from.

So here is what I would do "if" I were want to purchase new knives and not have a good idea of which knives I liked. Budget is of course a consideration but in the long run don't get hung up on saving a few dollars on a knife. Say you spend $40 on a knife and you don't use the knife you have just tossed $40 down the tube. Then you decide to buy a $60 knife and it's good but you end up with your eyes glued on that knife that costs $75 and you really wanted that one in the first place your real cost is now $175. $40 for your first, $60 for your second and that's $100 then you buy the $75 for the one you really like so it's $175 you have spent on getting one knife you like.

How to avoid this? Well why not go into some high end store and get your hands on several brands, see which fit nice in your hand and then buy the parring knife, buy the one your really like EVEN IF it's few more dollars. Don't get hung up on the price. If you don't think you can afford it, carry your lunch for a few days, avoid vending machines, eat beans and rice and rice and beans till you save the extra bit. Heck, throw your pocket change each night into a drawer and wait a month or two and count it out. I'll bet you will have the cash to buy a quality paring knife and not feel a pinch.

Once you buy the Then use it for several weeks and see what you think of the knife. If you don't like it then consider buying another paring knife from another manufacturer. I just did a quick search on line for prices, you should be able to buy a really good paring knife from $40 up. You may end up with 3 or 4 paring knives but I'll bet you find use for them and not really regret having them. Doing it this way you don't end up with a drawer full of expensive knifes you really don't like.

Then once you find the brand, style, price point of the paring knife you are comfortable with then make that next step and buy a chef's knife, I find an 8 inch to be a nice size for home. Now you are your way look to pick up a boning, slicing, and bread knife. Buy them one at a time, evaluate each one.

[lamina]

Maybe unfortunately I didn't end up following the advice too closely! I was out looking at a number of places today. I ended up buying a set, the Henkel Classic set. It comes with a paring knife, utility knife, boning knife, bread knife, and 8 inch chef's knife.



Well it's done now...You've buyed a nice set, Henckels are widespread and it's easy to get a set or a knife. It remembers me my first knife was an Henckels 8" chef's too...and at your first thread you have said it was a set you want. For a begginer it will suit you, mid-range but a good performer.

[tsmba]

Heinkels are OK knives that used to be "the" knife before the Japanese came around. I predict that looking back from a future date, you will notice several of the set that you rarely use. Now that you have them, its time to start learning to care for them.

[TonyH]

I use Henckels in my home kitchen and Global in my knife roll. Enjoy! You're on your way!

[davecmu]

That Globals are glorious. The handle doesn't bother me because I'm a pinch gripper, like many of the users of that knife. I find the design and balance to be particularly good for my hand shape and size.

Also, I admittedly have a Chicago Cutlery chef's knife that comes out when someone else might be using my knife or when there is a lot of work to be done that I don't want to risk the Global's edge on. I've had it for about five years, never sharpened (just straight steel a couple of times after each use) and never in the dishwasher. My family always asks how often I sharpen it because it's held such an awesome edge for all this time and use.

[ouch]

But my favorite knife is my Dexter Russell SofGrip, 10" Stamped steel chef's knife. Sharpens easily and is a joy to handle. And it's washable in the dishwasher. Puts far more expensive knives to shame. The can be picked up for around $30, and are excellent prep knives. Everyone should have one.

You'll find a Dexter in almost every commercial kitchen in the country. Many sharpening services will simply rotate them for newly sharpened knives, rather than sharpen on site.
They have always been a good value. I have a 25 year old Dexter cleaver that cost a whopping ten bucks and has served me well.


That Globals are glorious. The handle doesn't bother me because I'm a pinch gripper, like many of the users of that knife. I find the design and balance to be particularly good for my hand shape and size.

Also, I admittedly have a Chicago Cutlery chef's knife that comes out when someone else might be using my knife or when there is a lot of work to be done that I don't want to risk the Global's edge on. I've had it for about five years, never sharpened (just straight steel a couple of times after each use) and never in the dishwasher. My family always asks how often I sharpen it because it's held such an awesome edge for all this time and use.

I'm not a fan of the Global's wacky styling or the handles, but they give you a good hunk of steel, and that's what it's all about. They're a favorite of home and professional chefs alike, although many of the top chefs have migrated to the high end stuff.

[Alacrity59]

Thanks for the advice, how often do you think a knife should be taken to be sharpened? This set came with a steel for sharpening, but isn't that more kind of like what stropping is to a straight razor, just prepping the edge for immediate use?

And yeah it's kind of funny, on the side of the box along with the other points about the knives it says "Dishwasher safe" with a * beside it and at the bottom says "* Not reccomended by Henckel".

You are right about the steel, it is mostly straightening the edge. The number of times a year you sharpen depends on how frequently you use them. For me I sharpen when I can't cleanly slice a tomato. (Much like straight razors knives usually need to be sharpened when you first buy them . . . in my opinion.)

[Uber Goober]

Don`t waste your money on a set of knives, I use a Shun 6" chefs knife for 90% of the work I need to do when prepping food. The only other knives I use regularly are an 8" Mundial bread knife and a 4" Mundial paring knife. I`ve prepped food for literally thousands of meals with just this small number of knives. I like Shun knives because they hold an edge for ages and are a nice medium weight knife, Mundials are not as hard and are easier to sharpen regularly or touch up on the hop, however I don`t think the new ones are as well made as they use to be. I also have Shun Nikiri and Sashimi knives that I`ll only use if I`m doing Japanese or Korean food, the only other knife I use is a Shun 8" chefs knife with the Granton edge when I`m doing a lot of prep and don`t have time to spare and lots to do, I also have a 10" Mundial chefs knife that I use to split pumpkins or watermelons. I sharpen all my knives with a 1000 and 6000 grit Kai Cutlery stones.

I manage to run a home/function catering business with these few knives and find they`re all I ever need knife wise. For home use just buy three knives, a bread knife, a French chefs knife 8" or 6" and either a 4" utility or paring knife, it`s all you`ll need. Get a couple of good stones to sharpen them with and always wash your knives in tepid water and detergent then dry them immediately. Don`t store your knives in a drawer and never wash them in a dishwasher. If your going to store your knives in a block always put them in spine down so the live edge isn`t damaged when placing them into or removing them from the block, this also stops bacteria from developing in the cuts caused by the knives being slid in and out of the block with the live side down. A few well chosen knives will last forever with a little care if they are only used for a home kitchen. Hope this helps, Stephen.

[skier!]

DO NOT BUY A SET

Most sets are a collaboration of cheap knives. A chef's knife is good for 95% of jobs.

Get a chef's knife that is comfortable in your hand. I prefer 9 inches (no jokes).

And Wusthof is better than Henckels. Much better.

[tsmba]

The "best" knife is the one a particular user is comfortable with (and, I would add, is able to properly maintain). Ideally, if one is lucky enough to have access), you'd go to a reputable dealer and try 'em out. The "tomato test" is a great quick 'n dirty method for determining sharpness.

[Phoenix_one]

My .02 Cents.

The Most Frugal High Quality Japanese Knife

Tosagata Hocho 6-inch Santoku Knife
If you are going to use one knife, this is it.

http://www.justknives101.com/Tosagata_Hocho_Japanese_Knives_s/179.htm

[Mr_Amazing]

I like to keep it simple. I typically use 2 knives, both made by Cutco. One chefs knife and one serrated carving knife. Both of them are scalpel sharp, so you have to be careful around them or you'll lose a finger. The key is maintaining a sharp blade. To do that get a sharpening steel for the chefs knife. Plus, Cutco will sharpen the blades for free, plus shipping. Oh and most Cutco knives have lifetime guarantees too, so you got that goin for ya.

[JonnyAngel]

I picked up a Henckel's Four Star on sale for 50 bucks, and havent needed anything else. A good chefs knife, and a good steel is all you really need. I love the Shun Ken Onion as well.

[Fnord5]

Want to spend $600 on a set of knives? You may as well open your window and throw $300 to the breeze, since you won't be using half (or more) of them. Sets are a bad idea. Start by getting one good chef's knife. Afterwards, you'll be able to figure out what you need in a second knife. Depending on the type of cooking you do, it may be a cleaver, slicer, parer, or boning knife.

Search the forum- you'll be surprised how many threads we have on this subject, and how much information you'll find.

A BIG +1 to that!

An 8" chefs knife, best quality you can find/afford. Forschner, Henkles, Wusthof, not the made in China versions though.

Bread knife, you can save lots of money here, just find one with nice sharp serrations, it will be used for bread and frozen food, mainly as a saw. Buy cheap, replace as needed.

Pairing knives, the 3/4 packs of Henkles that you can get at Bed Bath & Beyond, while Chinese, are thin flexible, and take an excellent edge. At less than 15 bucks most often, they can't be beat. (They usually come with a regular paring knife, a straight edged vegetable paring knife, and a beaked turner/peeling knife, sometimes with a serrated tomato knife, which is useless if you have a sharp chef's knife.)

After that, you can buy pieces as you need them. I have a Chinese Chef knife that I use mainly for vegetables, and thin cutting meat, a fillet knife, a boning knife and a long roast/ham/salmon knife.

Even with that, 99% of the time, I grab the Chef's.

[NoFair]

Fnord is a wise man:biggrin:

Chef (the size you prefer, 8+ inches)

Pairing (utility knife)

Bread knife (least needed, but nice)

Go for the best quality you feel you can afford. If you buy something mediocre you will just buy a new knife soon after:wink2:

I prefer harder steels and use an older straight razor strop to keep them very sharp.

Sverre

[mikromicke]

I got a Global G2 chef knife maybe 10-12 years ago and it's been my main tool in the kitchen since then. I'm very impressed by how it holds its edge and I never really rehoned it during all these years. It's a very light knife though and I might have preferred a more solid, forged knife instead if I were to buy one today. It's a well spent $90 though (which is what they cost then and in Sweden).

[dpm802]

But my favorite knife is my Dexter Russell SofGrip, 10" Stamped steel chef's knife. Sharpens easily and is a joy to handle. And it's washable in the dishwasher. Puts far more expensive knives to shame. The can be picked up for around $30, and are excellent prep knives. Everyone should have one.

Go check out a Restaurant Supply Store near you ... you will find the Dexter Russell brand of knives, along with high quality, industrial strength pots and pans and servers and plates and all the other kitchen essentials selling at ridiculously low prices.

Don't overlook the small electric appliances in setting up the ultimate Bachelor Pad ... GeorgeForemanGrill, CrockPot, (Convection)ToasterOven, RiceCooker/Steamer ... all are staple items and you can assemble the lot for less than $200.