First "successful" straight shave

[moses]

So, I thought I would report in on my progress. I recieved my first (shave ready) straight a good while back. I have been extremely busy, though, so I did not ever really seriously try to shave with it. Well, I did once have a try at shaving my cheeks. It was awkward, but semi-successful. But pulled A LOT. Kind of painful, actually, more from pulling than anything else. Put it aside for a while.

But just pulled it out again yesterday. Having been sitting around so long, concern about having damaged the blade trying to test for sharpness, etc. inspired my to have a go with the pasted strop. I went through a progression on the strop, going very slowly and carefully, trying to keep minimum pressure, and keep the blade flat. After the .25, I did 50 strokes on the leather, and then put aside the razor while applying hot towels. I don't really know how sharp it was. Except it seemed at least as sharp, when shaving, as the first time I tried it. And with the hanging hair test, it did slightly better, and as well as any other blade I have, including Feathers.

Now, I had not shaved in a couple of days, so I had some good stubble going. I figured this would not really matter. It did. The razor just pulled, and did not really cut well. It was uncomfortable, and I feared I would cut myself, because cutting required kind of forcing the blade through. So I put it aside, and did one DE pass. I then went back with the straight, with much more success. I did two passes, one WTG, one ATG or across, depending on where. Still was not smooth, and had some bad stubble spots. So I grabbed the DE again and did a clean up pass.

Today, I had another go. Hoping I would not have the first pass problem, with only one day growth. Stropped 50 strokes again, but no paste. I was able to do the first pass with the straight. It still did pull a bit more than with a DE. But got the job done. I did another pass WTG, then one mostly ATG, again with some across.

I said "successful" in quotes, because it did not entirely meet my standard of success. But I did shave with a straight only, came out looking presentable, and did not require stiptic support. Downsides, it was not BBS by any means (equivalent of 1-2 passes with a DE), I did draw blood (where the lower lip meets the chin) although it did not last through cold water, and my face feels a bit overshaved. The whole process (minus prep) took 30 minutes. A little long for everyday, but for now I'll take that.

On the whole, it was definitely not bad, and gave me confidence that I can do this. I still cannot really figure out how to do the chin well. That is a beastly problem.

Also concerned about the resistance. Everyone talks about "wiping" the cream off. And "no resistance." Well I did wipe the cream off, but it was mighty clear there was hair in the way. And there was between some and a lot of resistance from that hair. Of course, with decent stubble, I have always gotten a fair amount of resistance, to a lot, when going ATG on the upper lip, with a DE. But I literally could not go ATG on my upper lip because it would have taken a degree of pressure that presented a very very real danger of the blade jumping loose and doing very real damage to my nose. I did get a fairly decent closeness by going across, center to sides.

On the whole though, a decent starting point, at least.

-Mo

[Kyle]

Mo,
It sounds as though you and I are in about the same place in regards to straight razor shaving. I'll be curious to see the responses from some of our veteran straight users. Perhaps they know of a tweak or two that can aid us in our progression.

[joel]

2 things.

1.) Sounds like you have too much angle on the razor, and you are not putting enough "follow-thru" in your strokes. With a straight razor (unless it is a REALLY big 8/8+) you do not just let it glide across your face, you make confident strokes, and push THRU the beard (note: not downward pressure, but lateral power) . If you are light on the stroke and have too steep an angle, no matter HOW sharp the razor - it'll pull and jump like an angry bull.

2.) 50 strops on the leather is wayyy too much, especially when you are new - as if your stropping technique isn't spot on, instead of screwing the pooch a little, you'll be screwing the pooch a lot. With a good strop, and good technique, 25-30 strops on the leather should be MORE than enough. Now, if you know what you are doing, and are experienced stropping - you can easily do 50 or more passes on a plain strop and it won't hurt the razor one bit. Stropping sounds incredibly easy, and seems incredibly easy, but it is suprisingly easy to do incorrectly. Stropping incorrectly will dull/round the edge, and stropping incorrectly on diamond paste will do so even more.

If you'd like, send the razor to me, and I can test it, and re-hone/touch it up if necessary.

[mparker762]

I'll second what Joel said, and add that going ATG before your technique is developed is very brave and a good way to hurt yourself. For one thing the straight razor doesn't need the same 3-pass discipline the way the DE does. The old barbering textbooks just call for two passes: the first with the grain and the second across the grain. If I do an against-the-grain pass I'm BBS for nearly 24 hrs, and while it's a pretty cool thing to be able to do it's not really needed on a daily basis; the 2-pass shave is as good or better than the DE.

Your first shaves should be taken slow, and it's probably not a bad idea to just shave your cheeks the first few weeks, since they're the easiest thing to do. The chin is usually the toughest area for most men to shave, so you're not alone there.

[19george]

A couple of things. (BTW I'm still relatively new to straight shaving, so maybe not wholly qualified to give advice - these are mistakes I made when beginning).

Make sure when you strop not to put pressure on the blade. Let it glide across the strop, and don't keep the strop very taut. Oh and go SLOWLY - I ruined the practice strop (with dull eBay razor no less) that came with my Tony Miller #1 because I thought I was superman.

Also .25m may be a little to fine an edge for some folk. It is for me. If you have a tough beard you probably shouldn't go higher than .5m or even 1m.

Pulling on the WTG pass is a little odd (esp after a trip to the paste). If it continues once you think it is not your technique - maybe you should take Joel up on the offer. You may have rolled the edge.

[joel]

Let it glide across the strop, and don't keep the strop very taut.

I strongly disagree with ya there. If the strop is not taut, and has any "sag" in it the "sag" will equate to a rolled edge. With a medium-sharp razor, you can get away with it, but if your razor is REALLLLLY tuned up, not keeping the strop REALLY taut will dull it... fast.

[AFDavis11]

I'm a little concerned. I think there is a little more pulling than with a DE, but without being able to see the blade for myself, well . . . I'd rather pass on the advice.

I'd try some better stropping with a taut strop and see how it goes for a while on your cheeks, WTG only. A dull razor is nothing to play with.

[Steelforge]

Echo what the guys above have said. You sound like you're doing quite well for a beginner, you should be encouraged by your progress so far as it's not as easy as people like Lynn make it look (to start with).

I would forget about going against the grain for now, just do a WTG and maybe an XTG pass at least for the first couple of weeks. It doesn't matter if it's not BBS at this point, you can cleanup with a DE if you like. What you're trying to learn right now is the feel of the razor, the confidence of the strokes, and the right angle. It just takes time that's all.

When I started, I used my DE for cleanup for the first 2 or 3 weeks, after that I was getting reasonable enough shaves not need it. Getting consistant BBS shaves took me longer, maybe 6 weeks to 2 months.

Now 3 to 4 months in I get BBS shaves every day usually without any nicks, and that's with 2 passes, one WTG and one XTG.

Stick with it and the results will come. :smile:

[19george]

I strongly disagree with ya there. If the strop is not taut, and has any "sag" in it the "sag" will equate to a rolled edge. With a medium-sharp razor, you can get away with it, but if your razor is REALLLLLY tuned up, not keeping the strop REALLY taut will dull it... fast.

Haha. That's why I put the disclaimer at the beginning of my post. I always figured it should be a little loose (not sagging). Oh well. Live and learn.

[ouch]

and don't keep the strop very taut.

The slightest bit of sag can round off the edge of an otherwise perfect blade. That edge is very, very delicate. I think you'd be better off stropping on a paddle in the beginning.

[SSLStudio]

2 things.

1.) Sounds like you have too much angle on the razor, and you are not putting enough "follow-thru" in your strokes. With a straight razor (unless it is a REALLY big 8/8+) you do not just let it glide across your face, you make confident strokes, and push THRU the beard (note: not downward pressure, but lateral power) . If you are light on the stroke and have too steep an angle, no matter HOW sharp the razor - it'll pull and jump like an angry bull.
.

Hi Mo ,

your doing great just listen to Joel's advice here READ ! Carefully till it sinks into you !
I did my 3rd straight razor shave and played with the angle but more importantly what Joel writes it aint the same technique as a DE you really have to follow-thru !!!!! cant stress that enough but your angle must be right! or else its like you experience a pulling experience that was my 1st experience with a straight and I thought what have I began with !
but today I did 2 full passes and its wicked fun I tell you ! around the chin I experience more pulling since Im still very much shaking around that area.
The neck WTG goes like cutting thru butter very nice ! id say its much nicer actually with a striaght to do your neck then with a DE ! I was really enjoying it. I can even do change hands and get a decent pass. you just have to get over the scary feeling so I'll go real slow but with a steady follow-thru that is working for me.

im not ashamed to admit for a clean up pass I grabbed the Fatboy with a derby on setting 6 ! to clean up and im not BBS ! I dont care im learning the ropes of straight shaving and enjoying myself.. as long as I dont cut myself 2 cm into my chin like this guy did when he started out im all happy .
I have both the B&B dvd and Lynn's DVD which help by watching how they shave with a straight but to Quote OUCH words " No one can teach you how to shave with a straight you can watch/read about it but you will have to develop your own technique that suits you "

At one point today the shave went so nice I thought I could easy pace up the speed didnt do it ! thats important we are at Rookie level if you slide or make an accident move the damage is much bigger then a DE , you could end up looking like Micheal Jacksons nose or something ...not good.

Go slow but be confident in what you do, and I salute you for being on the straight razor journey aswell, here are some clips with guys using a straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI4ak1lJgY4&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69_sqKFCA8&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aG-X1-5NtQ&mode=related&search= (this guy is in Shave Zen )

[moses]

Well, thanks for all the advice, y'all. Maybe I am going a little crazy going ATG. It was actually fairly easy going, and not truly ATG, though - ear to chin on the cheeks/jaw (but only the flat surface, not anything on the curve around the jawbone), which is across are the sideburns, but pretty close to against down by the jawline.

As to other things. For angle I was trying to stay very flat, perhaps even too flat, but most of the time, the spine was < 1/8" off my face, down to almost against it. As for the strokes, perhaps I do need to be a little more assertive, as you suggest, Joel.

And thanks for the tip on doing less on the leater. I did keep it really tight, which is apparently a good thing. And I went really slow, making sure always to having the spine flat on the leather, but without adding any pressure. But all that does not mean I did not mess anything up, of course.

For the courseness of the paste used, why would a tough beard suggest a less fine finish? I would think finer = sharper, and sharper = better with a tough beard?

Joel, that is a very kind offer. I am very tempted to take you up on it, as it is possible that I have somehow dulled the edge somewhat since it's original honing. My only hesitation is that leaves me razorless to practice in the meantime :frown: . But it might be worth it, just to test and be sure the blade is as sharp as it can be.

-Mo

[joel]

Well, thanks for all the advice, y'all. Maybe I am going a little crazy going ATG. It was actually fairly easy going, and not truly ATG, though - ear to chin on the cheeks/jaw (but only the flat surface, not anything on the curve around the jawbone), which is across are the sideburns, but pretty close to against down by the jawline.

As to other things. For angle I was trying to stay very flat, perhaps even too flat, but most of the time, the spine was < 1/8" off my face, down to almost against it. As for the strokes, perhaps I do need to be a little more assertive, as you suggest, Joel.

And thanks for the tip on doing less on the leater. I did keep it really tight, which is apparently a good thing. And I went really slow, making sure always to having the spine flat on the leather, but without adding any pressure. But all that does not mean I did not mess anything up, of course.

For the courseness of the paste used, why would a tough beard suggest a less fine finish? I would think finer = sharper, and sharper = better with a tough beard?

Joel, that is a very kind offer. I am very tempted to take you up on it, as it is possible that I have somehow dulled the edge somewhat since it's original honing. My only hesitation is that leaves me razorless to practice in the meantime :frown: . But it might be worth it, just to test and be sure the blade is as sharp as it can be.

-Mo


Mo,
The theory is - if you have a supersharp edge, it is also superfine, and without a very hard steel - the smaller the amount of metal at the edge of the blade (meaning the sharper) also, the more apt it will be to warp/disalign with a very tough beard. Personally, I feel with a good quality razor, it should do just fine, but many feel they get superior results with .5 micron diamond paste, which I would attribute more to the type of edge it creates, as to the thinness of the edge. To each their own, but personally - I never finish with diamond pastes, as I find their shaves to be a little rougher than with other alternatives. While diamond pastes are ALWAYS part of my routine, I will usually finish with 1-2 passes on a SUPER fine hone, or a few strops on chromiun oxide.

:smile:

[ouch]

If you're using a 5/8" razor, keeping the spine 1/8" off of your face would make an angle of around 12 degrees (I'm sure someone's going to correct me on this), which is a bit on the shallow side.

[moses]

While diamond pastes are ALWAYS part of my routine, I will usually finish with 1-2 passes on a SUPER fine hone, or a few strops on chromiun oxide.


I think I know which hone you mean.... And I'm not about to shell out that kind of money at the moment. :smile:

At some point I might give the chromium oxide a go.

But for now, I'm going to figure that while something else might give a slightly more ideal edge, the diamond should be plenty good enough for a beginner whose technique is probably not good enough to tell the difference....

-Mo

[moses]

If you're using a 5/8" razor, keeping the spine 1/8" off of your face would make an angle of around 12 degrees (I'm sure someone's going to correct me on this), which is a bit on the shallow side.

Did you also account for the natural angle built into the razor (thickness of the spine)? :wink:

-Mo

[Howard]

30 minutes is a long time. If you keep it up you will find what works and develop efficient habits. I think many of my straight razor shaves are well under 5 minutes, including the lathering and stropping.

Some of the habits I've fallen into.

stropping - 20 on the pasted linen side and 20 on the leather. At first I went slowly but after a short time the speed naturally increases. My strop is not pulled completely tight, it's taught but it has a slight sag to it. It's attached to a shelf about shoulder height and I use it in an almost vertical position. It's one of Tony Miller's strops and the linen side is slightly shorter than the leather side, which means even if the linnen is taught the leather still has some slack in it. It still hones well though, so don't get too fanatical about pulling it completely straight. (I remember an unintentional poem from an old physics text. The author was upset when he found he had become an unintentional poet, and revised the doggerel out in later editions. It went "No force, however great, can pull a line, however fine, 'til it be absolutely straight."

Honing - Once a razor is shave ready I rarely hone. You shouldn't have to be sending your razor out all the time. Just use it. You may find it getting better with continued stropping. You will also get a chance to get used to it.

Methods - I never go against the grain. First I go with the grain, then if more is desired I may make across the grain passes. Cheeks usually get 1 wtg and 2 across the grain, neck and under chin 1 wtg, chin 1 wtg and touchup.

You will find your own habits and what works for you if you keep at it.

[Steelforge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aG-X1-5NtQ&mode=related&search= (this guy is in Shave Zen )

Argh I can't watch that. It's almost like he's scared to rough his skin up with the brush! Then when he starts shaving I want to scream at him "it's a straight FFS, you can shave half your face between rinses! You don't have to rinse it every 2cm shaved like a Mock3". :mad:

[jnich67]

Argh I can't watch that. It's almost like he's scared to rough his skin up with the brush! Then when he starts shaving I want to scream at him "it's a straight FFS, you can shave half your face between rinses! You don't have to rinse it every 2cm shaved like a Mock3". :mad:

:a7: Agreed! My first thought on his lathering was "what're puttin' on makeup!"

He does have the slooow movement thing down though. I need to work on that. :mad3:

Jordan

[jnich67]

Mo, I agree with all the advice you've gotten already, especially on the "confident" strokes. But I would be careful trying to "force" a confident stroke. Its hard to make that stroke if you're not relaxed and its hard to relax (at least if was for me) your first few shaves. Just keep at it with patience and it will come to you. Go for comfortable shaves first. The closeness and quality will follow. It just takes practice....Keep at it! :thumbup1:
Jordan

[Joe Chandler]

Everything said above is great advice. Make sure you stretch the skin, too.

[moses]

Thanks guys. Little bit of a hiatus over the holidays. Did not want to take up the space or time while traveling. Back at it now, hopefully.

-Mo

[BOGARTUS]

There is not much I can add, but support. I wish I had this friendly and kind support when I started.

Shave and Repent

[EL Alamein]

Mo,

Everything you're going through is natural. The technique change with a straight is one of the biggest hurdles for modern razor users and DE users. The DE and modern razor geometry provides a crutch in a way and eliminates the technique of actually shaving while the DE with it's guard bar will be much more forgiving and easier to operate. What I mean by that is a straight must be held in a certain way while operated in order to provide the best results, i.e. there's no guard to absorb the resistence from the hair so don't press on your skin with the razor you have to more or less hold it in place. Hold the razor firmly using your skin as a guide only and "shave" off the hair. Maintain angle throughout the stroke and resist the temptation to press down on your skin BUT be sure to keep the blade on the skin and follow it. Don't scrape your skin (applying pressure with the blade) shave it (follow the contours holding the edge firmly). Experiment with the angle a bit until you hit the one that provides a glide while practicing this technique. It will come, just give it time.

Remember, in professional barber shops where they use a traditional straight (not an injector or shavette), men fall asleep during preparation time and wake after the first pass is completed. The shave has to be smooth with no pull in order to accomplish this - so it can be done. That's the goal and you'll get there with attention to detail and persistence. It's all in the technique! Hope that helps.

Chris

[netsurfr]

So, I thought I would report in on my progress. I recieved my first (shave ready) straight a good while back. I have been extremely busy, though, so I did not ever really seriously try to shave with it. Well, I did once have a try at shaving my cheeks. It was awkward, but semi-successful. But pulled A LOT. Kind of painful, actually, more from pulling than anything else. Put it aside for a while.

But just pulled it out again yesterday. Having been sitting around so long, concern about having damaged the blade trying to test for sharpness, etc. inspired my to have a go with the pasted strop. I went through a progression on the strop, going very slowly and carefully, trying to keep minimum pressure, and keep the blade flat. After the .25, I did 50 strokes on the leather, and then put aside the razor while applying hot towels. I don't really know how sharp it was. Except it seemed at least as sharp, when shaving, as the first time I tried it. And with the hanging hair test, it did slightly better, and as well as any other blade I have, including Feathers.

Now, I had not shaved in a couple of days, so I had some good stubble going. I figured this would not really matter. It did. The razor just pulled, and did not really cut well. It was uncomfortable, and I feared I would cut myself, because cutting required kind of forcing the blade through. So I put it aside, and did one DE pass. I then went back with the straight, with much more success. I did two passes, one WTG, one ATG or across, depending on where. Still was not smooth, and had some bad stubble spots. So I grabbed the DE again and did a clean up pass.

Today, I had another go. Hoping I would not have the first pass problem, with only one day growth. Stropped 50 strokes again, but no paste. I was able to do the first pass with the straight. It still did pull a bit more than with a DE. But got the job done. I did another pass WTG, then one mostly ATG, again with some across.

I said "successful" in quotes, because it did not entirely meet my standard of success. But I did shave with a straight only, came out looking presentable, and did not require stiptic support. Downsides, it was not BBS by any means (equivalent of 1-2 passes with a DE), I did draw blood (where the lower lip meets the chin) although it did not last through cold water, and my face feels a bit overshaved. The whole process (minus prep) took 30 minutes. A little long for everyday, but for now I'll take that.

On the whole, it was definitely not bad, and gave me confidence that I can do this. I still cannot really figure out how to do the chin well. That is a beastly problem.

Also concerned about the resistance. Everyone talks about "wiping" the cream off. And "no resistance." Well I did wipe the cream off, but it was mighty clear there was hair in the way. And there was between some and a lot of resistance from that hair. Of course, with decent stubble, I have always gotten a fair amount of resistance, to a lot, when going ATG on the upper lip, with a DE. But I literally could not go ATG on my upper lip because it would have taken a degree of pressure that presented a very very real danger of the blade jumping loose and doing very real damage to my nose. I did get a fairly decent closeness by going across, center to sides.

On the whole though, a decent starting point, at least.

-Mo

Got my best shave ever this morning with my 8/8. However, I must admit it has taken me three or four months to get to this point. This was the first time ever that I have been able to shave against the grain. I enjoyed hearing about your progress. I still don't feel that my shaves are as close as they might be but then I might be just expecting too much.
Congratulations on your progress. Keep us informed about how you are doing.
Steve