YouTube heresy against Mantic59?

[Mike in Cincy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKg5r_JkgQA

please watch this and comment if you like. There are two big differences in the techniques taught on the video and what Mark teaches. Can you spot them?

[rsp1202]

Robert uses a lot of preps and potions, doesn't soak his brush for long, paints the lather on very thinly, goes for only two passes. And it all works for him.

[grouse79]

Well he says lathering the face in circular motion loosens the bristles of the brush and to avoid if possible shaving against the grain. Never heard the first idea before but you can still get a decent shave without going ATG in my experience. After only 2 passes however I would still have plenty stubble.

[kedarroy]

looks like he stretches his skin more as well?

[Suzuki]

There is nothing wrong with his technique or advice - its different from what others say, but there are lots of variations on the basic theme.

His main principles are right:

1) Use lots of hot water

2) Use a quality soap or cream with a lather that works for you

3) Stretch your skin

4) Do as many passes in whatever directions work for you

5) Rinse with hot water and then follow up with a cold water splash

6) Us a post-shave routine that works for your skin

At the end of the day, a good lather is one that combines the soap/cream in a ratio that works for you.

I think the real take away is that you need to figure out what works for you and not be afraid to experiment.

[DSB]

Ymmv.

[michiganlover]

He also recommends long sweeping strokes vs. the short strokes most of us have been taught to use with a DE razor. :confused:

[rsp1202]

Right! I knew I left something out when posting before. It's like watching someone shaving with a cartridge razor. Good catch.

[Alacrity59]

Eventually we all do what works for us. Take the best and leave the rest . . . steal what you can . . .call it your own but credit where credit is due . . . etc. and so on and so forth. I get lather on my face as thick as Mantic . . . make it in a bowl like Jim . . . take long strokes like this guy but on diagonal a la Gillette (may owe this to Mantic as well) Make an against the grain pass. Put a hot soaked cloth on my lathered face a la kyle. And so on.

Anybody who makes a youtube effort to spread the good word deserves praise.

[michiganlover]

Right! I knew I left something out when posting before. It's like watching someone shaving with a cartridge razor. Good catch.

I don't think I would want to try (or dare to) to shave that way with a DE razor, but it seems to work for him. :001_rolle

I don't, however, think this is the best method to recommend to a new wet-shaver, as the long sweeping strokes would seem to lead to less control over the razor, which as a new shaver would lead to additional nicks/cuts. :eek:

[ProphetNoir]

And he plainly states that "... this is what works for me." Not how I shave or use my Castle Forbes, but a well made video nonetheless.
Have a look at the Method Shaving vid if you want to cringe.

[jasonboyd]

He also recommends long sweeping strokes vs. the short strokes most of us have been taught to use with a DE razor. :confused:

I use a longer stroke, the short strokes to me feels almost like blade buffing on all 3 passes, plus with the short strokes I tend to go over the same place twice at times without lather the second time because of the short strokes.


I agree, it's not so much about a specific method, as long as the same results are reached. As long as we all get a shave that each one of us personally is happy with, that's what it's all about.

[kingfisher]

I like the video. The guy seems to get a very efficient shave.

I, too, prefer long strokes to short ones, especially on the cheeks. To me it seems that he applies quite a bit of pressure, but it's hard to say for sure.

[rsp1202]

And he's using a Merkur. Tough guy. I like the video, too.

If you want to see a slightly different take on shaving (but with some shared characteristics), go over to acne.org, Daniel Kern's website. He using a Sensor in his video but has since switched to a Bump Fighter handle and Trac II cartridge. In its own way it's educational too.

[Mike in Cincy]

For those who use the Merkur HD or EJ razors with the Merkur head (like this guy), do you find it easier to find the 'sweet spot angle' if using the longer strokes?

[Subcutaneous]

yeh linger strokes are eaier with my HD not sure why

[richmondesi]

My strokes are actually quite long as well. My wrists work :tongue_sm

[otherstar]

I use a longer stroke, the short strokes to me feels almost like blade buffing on all 3 passes, plus with the short strokes I tend to go over the same place twice at times without lather the second time because of the short strokes.


I agree, it's not so much about a specific method, as long as the same results are reached. As long as we all get a shave that each one of us personally is happy with, that's what it's all about.

I couldn't agree more. I find that with shorter strokes I'm more likely to nick myself than if I take the longer strokes. I tend to be more mindful of the angle, etc., with the longer strokes.

[rainman]

Yes. Long strokes where I can get away with it. I will do a one pass shave with touch up most of the time. Some areas will only get an ATG, some will only get WTG, a few areas will need an XTG touch-up.

[Koss]

Ha! If I, as in myself, if I did a two stroke pass WTG and XTG, and only these... it would appear as if I didn't even bother shaving in the morning.

Boy... that is some dry lather he has there. Why even bother with the bowl?

[Barbarian]

Long strokes, short strokes...Your are all still talking about shaving right?:lol:

Actually I prefer long strokes to short. Shaving.

[alexo]

1. The major difference is the lack of hot towel prep. It's not a must but can make the difference for some people or human badgers like me :wink:.
2. His brush techniques are new to me. I didn't know moving the brush in circular motions on the face can loosen the hair.
3. Long strokes require adjusting the angle while moving so I prefer shorter strokes. Another reason is not to accumulate the lather and hair in the razor and clean more often.
4. Stretching the face by the lathered skin won't work for me as it's too slippery and messy.

[SRock]

You have to remember that Mark isn't the catch all, be all, end all of wet shaving. There are several methods and the bottom line in all of them is YMMV.


I think the real take away is that you need to figure out what works for you and not be afraid to experiment.

+1

[hyo]

I tend to nic myself with the short strokes. The long passes I am more comfortable. I want to try his cross grain, but I'm still novice and am scared.

[michiganlover]

2. His brush techniques are new to me. I didn't know moving the brush in circular motions on the face can loosen the hair.

I really think that is an unproved theory...I never heard that mentioned before...besides part of the fun of lather, and a brush is massaging the lather into your face.

Even if using the circular motions did lessen the life of the brush, the fun factor would override.

He says it loosens the hair in the brush, but doesn't say how long it would take for this to occur, or to what degree this would lessen the life of the brush.

[Nick D.E.vious]

I really think that is an unproved theory...I never heard that mentioned before...besides part of the fun of lather, and a brush is massaging the lather into your face.

Even if using the circular motions did lessen the life of the brush, the fun factor would override.

He says it loosens the hair in the brush, but doesn't say how long it would take for this to occur, or to what degree this would lessen the life of the brush.
Well said! :thumbup1:

[valmara1971]

Ha! If I, as in myself, if I did a two stroke pass WTG and XTG, and only these... it would appear as if I didn't even bother shaving in the morning.

Boy... that is some dry lather he has there. Why even bother with the bowl?

I agree T&H applied the creme direct to my face and rubbed in circles until the correct lather was achieved. No bowl required there.

[Swampfox]

Who cares about loose hair? All I have is a thin ring around my head anyhow.....oh, we're talking about shaving brushes...sorry. :tongue_sm

[moshulu]

Good video. I think he is right about not using giant quantities of lather. Quality is more important than quantity when it comes to lathering.

The business about brush strokes seems wrong. I have used a circular motion with the same Jagger brush for over ten years, and it still has almost all of its hairs (luckily, so do I!).

[groc426]

I like the video a lot. I tried out the longer shaving strokes yesterday and prefer them a lot more than the shorter strokes. I'm new and still trying to find what fits me best and really appreciated this video! So, for me the video fits its purpose.

[SpyvSpy]

No circular motions with the brush? I do it all the time and nothing bad happened. I dunno I learned from mantics videos so I pretty much stand by his techniques.

[infotech]

Simpson brushes used to come with directions that instructed the user not to use circular motions with the brush.

I liked the video and didn't see anything wrong with it.

One more difference that hasn't been pointed out:

It has a much more laid back, relaxed feel to it than Mantics videos which are generally have more energy and humor to them. They also did good work with the lighting which seems to be done with some sort of video editing software.

I'd rank it right up there with Mantic's in terms of teaching and quality.

Have you seen some of the other how to shave videos on you tube? Down right amateur...

[valmara1971]

Fido is going to have a shave with the heritic tomorrow. I told him to mention he is being burned at the steak as we speak over at B&B! :smile:

[kongjie]

Elsewhere on B&B the warning about circular brush motions has been discussed.

That sounds like Yoda-speak.

Anyway, I occasionally use "paintbrush" motions with my brush for fun. But I still lather a lot more than in that video. While I agree that you don't need tons of lather for a good shave, I do like my lather whipped to a different consistency than he used.

Of course, it may also relate to the choice of shaving cream. I find that Nancy Boy forms a great consistency when used with a brush.

[BoldSpice]

This is the video where he talks about open and closed pores? I think that's nonsense.

[Swampfox]

The video is posted somewhere around here...I watched it the other day. To each his own. :cool:

[Blade II]

I guess there is no single correct way to do things, but I will personally not take much from that vid.

[philamac]

I believe that Robert (the chap in the video) earns his living as a barber and seller of shaving soaps, creams, brushes etc.

The Simpson Duke I bought came with this advice:

'use the brush with a light hand, making long to and fro strokes on the face'

[michiganlover]

The business about brush strokes seems wrong. I have used a circular motion with the same Jagger brush for over ten years, and it still has almost all of its hairs (luckily, so do I!).

Agreed, like I said I think it is unfounded. If I were to get 10 years of service out of a $40 piece of equipment, I would be more than happy, I would be ecstatic!! Just how many years do we expect a shaving brush to last anyway?

That was my point above, if doing circular motions reduces the life of the brush from 10 years, to 9 years, I am not much going to care, as the fun factor is well worth the brush wearing out a little sooner.

I still think his theory is bunk, however....:lol::lol:

[Koss]

Agreed, like I said I think it is unfounded. If I were to get 10 years of service out of a $40 piece of equipment, I would be more than happy, I would be ecstatic!! Just how many years do we expect a shaving brush to last anyway?

That was my point above, if doing circular motions reduces the life of the brush from 10 years, to 9 years, I am not much going to care, as the fun factor is well worth the brush wearing out a little sooner.

I still think his theory is bunk, however....:lol::lol:

Have you guys read the threads about, or have done your own vintage knot replacement?

Some people take a dremel or a drill with a cutting attachment to drill the old knot out. It can be a good deal of work.

I don't think you should worry about using circular strokes with your brush. If the bristles can stand up to it day in and day out... the knot will too.

[Koss]

I agree T&H applied the creme direct to my face and rubbed in circles until the correct lather was achieved. No bowl required there.

Right, making lather does not require a bowl. You can face lather, or even hand lather.

What I meant in my previous post was how he loaded his brush with a twist of cream... swirled it around for 2 or 3 seconds in the bowl, then started face lathering with the most dry lather I have ever seen. So really the bowl being used for 2 or 3 seconds is pretty pointless in my mind. With how he uses it.

I am a bowl latherer. But I do not think everyone should be. Everyone should just use the techniques that work best for themselves.

[rainman]

Long strokes, short strokes...Your are all still talking about shaving right?:lol:

Actually I prefer long strokes to short. Shaving.

:eek::rolleyes:

[Bright (Satin) Futur]

The long, long strokes and the pulling of the skin are different from what Mark promotes. I think the guy's using Derbys to avoid cutting his chin when pulled tight.

[bill mcdill]

I don't, however, think this is the best method to recommend to a new wet-shaver, as the long sweeping strokes would seem to lead to less control over the razor, which as a new shaver would lead to additional nicks/cuts. :eek:

+1, been there, done that, bled for a while..

[Drubbing]

It's all information; you take what you think will work for you, try it, and get a feel for what is best for you. It's just great so much good stuff gets collected in one place like this.

I could never shave the way mantic suggests; short strokes just goes against the rhythm and flow of how I've learn to shave over 30 years.

For those brand new to wet shaving, his approach is certainly a great way to start, as DE blades need respect, and the overall quality of his instruction and knowledge of the whole process is very good.

Ultimately, there are no rules for what works for the individual. What works for you, works. The fun part is getting involved in forums like this and learning, trying something you think will improve things, and enjoying some of the great products that come with the process of traditional shaving.

[infotech]

Just for something different, I tried his approach this morning. A couple of observations.

If I stopped lathering when my lather was as thin as his, I felt like there wasn't enough water. I probably used too much cream.

The long strokes were actually pretty nice. It was a very gentle shave.

I do admit that instead of going XTG, I used my normal ATG second pass.

While the shave wasn't as close as I get using short strokes, it was gentler.

I think I have a tendency to go over certian spots multiple times when using short strokes and if not paying attention, pushing down to hard at the beginning of each stroke. The longer strokes meant that I put the blade against my face less.

I think with a little tweaking this is really a good way to shave, possibly better for me than the short strokes.

[mbrossar]

I thought it was a well produced video. I liked his method of stretching his upper lip. I hadn't heard that one before.

I did notice two things that I found interesting.

He generally stretched his skin in the direction of his shave (or pulling in front of the razor) on his first pass while stretching from behind the razor on his second pass.
The direction of his passes under his chin were more or less the same. He did say his second pass was at a slight angle, but IMO it was very slight. To me, this is one of the big advantages of a single blade: Each pass goes in a different direction. Not sure I see the advantage to two passes in the same direction.