The MMA Thread

[The Nid Hog]

Why is Joe Rogan so against Chuck? He looked great in this fight.

:huh:

[TimmyBoston]

Why is Joe Rogan so against Chuck? He looked great in this fight.

I'm sure it's what Dana told him say. The UFC is trying very hard to get him to retire. Liddell was the biggest draw in the sport, a living legend. But he needs to retire.


Holy Cow Cro Cop! That was awesome!

[TimmyBoston]

I never thought Mirko Cro Cop would be getting Submission of the Night. :lol::lol::lol:


How was the Condit fight? I missed that one. I saw it was fight of the night.

Franklin had knockout, that one was a no brainer.

All in all, this was the best PPV I've seen in a long time. The Barry/Cro Cop was a lot of fun. Rothwell and Yvel went at it for three rounds and so did Kampmann and Thiago. Kampmann's ground game was really on tonight. I was very impressed with Martin. I thought Cro Cop and Barry would be a shoe in for FOTN. That was a great fight.


Some of my predictions were wrong, but I was happy with the results. :thumbup1:

[TimmyBoston]

Thanks for the heads up because there is a Buffalo Wild Wings right down the road from me and I never knew they showed the fights. The bars around me charge between $15 and $20 to get in.

Did you go out to see the fight?

[azmark]

If there is a Buffalo Wild Wings near you, they show the fights for free. Saves you some cash.

Buffalo Wild Wings with Asian Zing and Caribbean Jerk sauce:001_wub:.......wrapped in bacon.

[TimmyBoston]

Buffalo Wild Wings with Asian Zing and Caribbean Jerk sauce:001_wub:.......wrapped in bacon.

In your town they wrap them in bacon??????? That's reason enough to move to Arizona. :w00t:

[azmark]

In your town they wrap them in bacon??????? That's reason enough to move to Arizona. :w00t:

:lol::lol:

It's still in legislation but the outcome looks good.

[SRock]

Overall this turned out to be a much more exciting card that I/many expected.


:huh:

Why are you confused. Chuck did look good for the most part. Looked better than he has in a while and to not only hang with but rock Rich the way he did tells me he could still hold his own with many at that weight class. Like I posted on my FB I don't see the Iceman ever making a legit run at any title ever again, but he's still got game.


I'm sure it's what Dana told him say. The UFC is trying very hard to get him to retire. Liddell was the biggest draw in the sport, a living legend. But he needs to retire.


Holy Cow Cro Cop! That was awesome!

I agree but the way Joe was pushing it was like Chuck got embarrassed and that simply isn't true.


I never thought Mirko Cro Cop would be getting Submission of the Night. :lol::lol::lol:


How was the Condit fight? I missed that one. I saw it was fight of the night.

Franklin had knockout, that one was a no brainer.

All in all, this was the best PPV I've seen in a long time. The Barry/Cro Cop was a lot of fun. Rothwell and Yvel went at it for three rounds and so did Kampmann and Thiago. Kampmann's ground game was really on tonight. I was very impressed with Martin. I thought Cro Cop and Barry would be a shoe in for FOTN. That was a great fight.


Some of my predictions were wrong, but I was happy with the results. :thumbup1:

A couple of mine were off as well, but I think Danzig got robbed.


My predictions in bold:

* Light Heavyweight bout: Chuck Liddell vs. Rich Franklin Correct and what a great fight!!
* Heavyweight bout: Mirko Cro Cop vs. Pat Barry Correct and another great fight!
* Welterweight bout: Paulo Thiago vs. Martin Kampmann Wrong and my hats off to Kampmann. My gut told me to take him but I talked myself out of it. I should have stuck with my gut.
* Heavyweight bout: Ben Rothwell vs. Gilbert Yvel Correct and a good fight
* Welterweight bout: Carlos Condit vs. Rory MacDonald Correct

Preliminary card (Spike TV)

* Lightweight bout: Tyson Griffin vs. Evan Dunham I was wrong
* Lightweight bout: Mac Danzig vs. Matt Wiman Danzig got hosed

I'm not particularly excited about any of these fights and I think the Liddell/Franklin and Cro Cop/Barry fights can go either way and I won't be surprised who wins either bout unless it is by some crazy uncharacteristic means.

I went 4-3 with this one but I knew Kampmann/Thiago could go either way and like many I think Mac Danzig may have gotten the hose.


:lol::lol:

It's still in legislation but the outcome looks good.

:lol::lol::lol:

[Barbash]

Did you go out to see the fight?

I ended up ordering it and watching it from the comfort of home. I had decided that I just wasn't going to watch the fights, but then I got sucked in by the prelims on Spike. Glad I did. For a card that I was not overly excited about it had some good fights.
Got to love Cro Cop's post fight interview with his plea to Dana about getting fight of the night or submission of the night(I'd go w/submission of the night).

[SRock]

I ended up ordering it and watching it from the comfort of home. I had decided that I just wasn't going to watch the fights, but then I got sucked in by the prelims on Spike. Glad I did. For a card that I was not overly excited about it had some good fights.
Got to love Cro Cop's post fight interview with his plea to Dana about getting fight of the night or submission of the night(I'd go w/submission of the night).

This is one I wouldn't be upset about.

[The Nid Hog]

Why are you confused. Chuck did look good for the most part. Looked better than he has in a while and to not only hang with but rock Rich the way he did tells me he could still hold his own with many at that weight class. Like I posted on my FB I don't see the Iceman ever making a legit run at any title ever again, but he's still got game.


If by looking good you mean that he came into the fit looking fit, threw effective punches and kicks, and scored a takedown, I guess he did. But, Rogan aside, did anybody expect him to come into the cage with a lap blanket and a drool bucket? He didn't look good stretched out on the canvas and he doesn't look good with five losses in his last six outings. You can argue that he still has a place in the division but until he actually beats somebody, it sounds more like wishful thinking.

[TimmyBoston]

This is a moot argument about Chuck according to Dana White.

http://www.lowkick.com/UFC/Dana-White-I-guarantee-that-Chuck-Liddell-will-not-fight-for-the-UFC-ever-again-8292

I knew this was coming, but I expected it in a more dignified way and formal way. I didn't think it was out of the question they give him one more against Tito, then force him out. Let him try to go out on a high note. I don't think Dana was confident at this point Chuck could beat Tito and I don't think he could handle a loss to someone like that at this point.

It's too bad, but I'll be remembering this Chuck:

http://lewets.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/chuck-liddell.png?w=316&h=350

Not this Chuck:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/rashad-evans-knocks-out-chuck-liddell.jpg

[Barbash]

You have to love how direct Dana White is with the media on what he thinks of the refs and Strikeforce.

[MikeyAces]

The best card in a few months for sure. Gotta feel bad for Mac Danzig, it's a shame that's gonna go down as a loss on his record, and I'm sure Wiman isn't happy about getting a cheap victory. Can't blame Lavigne for stopping the fight, if anything, Wiman never should've opened his mouth and suggested Danzig was out. That's not his call to make. I was really impressed with Cro Cop's comeback after the first round. That second right hook Barry caught him with was huge. I'll be more excited for each of these guys next fights after watching their fight this weekend. As far as the Franklin fight, I gotta take my hat off for the guy. Chuck looked real sharp, and Franklin could've easily called it a day after breaking his arm. That knockout looked real nasty. Career ender nasty. But I really think it's classless the way that's coming about. I'm sure Chuck wants to fight again, despite the fact he should give it up. If you're Dana White, take the guy aside in private and tell him he needs to bow out, and let Chuck be the one to make that public.

[SRock]

If by looking good you mean that he came into the fit looking fit, threw effective punches and kicks, and scored a takedown, I guess he did. But, Rogan aside, did anybody expect him to come into the cage with a lap blanket and a drool bucket? He didn't look good stretched out on the canvas and he doesn't look good with five losses in his last six outings. You can argue that he still has a place in the division but until he actually beats somebody, it sounds more like wishful thinking.

You are right. He is down 5 of his last 6 with three of those loses being consecutive. I guess my point was record/age aside. If he was a nobody/up and comer and came in and fought like that he'd get another shot.


This is a moot argument about Chuck according to Dana White.

http://www.lowkick.com/UFC/Dana-White-I-guarantee-that-Chuck-Liddell-will-not-fight-for-the-UFC-ever-again-8292

I knew this was coming, but I expected it in a more dignified way and formal way. I didn't think it was out of the question they give him one more against Tito, then force him out. Let him try to go out on a high note. I don't think Dana was confident at this point Chuck could beat Tito and I don't think he could handle a loss to someone like that at this point.

It's too bad, but I'll be remembering this Chuck:

http://lewets.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/chuck-liddell.png?w=316&h=350

Not this Chuck:

http://sports.popcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/rashad-evans-knocks-out-chuck-liddell.jpg

+1 Timmy!

[The Nid Hog]

Here's a little nugget I picked up on my morning read of Sherdog. Cro-cop outstruck Pat Barry 89-29 on Saturday. I haven't had time to look at the details on Compustrike, but I would bet that just about all of his strikes came in the opening round. I like Barry and I think that he has the potential to do better. However, at 30, he needs to realize that fights go more than one round. If he doesn't work on his endurance, we'll see in him in Strikeforce or KOTC before too long.

[SmoovD]

Mirko could have been done in one. Barry had his chances but chose to idolize instead of trying to finish. Barry was gassed by the second and looking for an out in the third.

[Sullybob]

I haven't seen the Barry Mirko fight but if he was gassed after throwing less then 29 strikes he needs to work on his conditioning.

[SmoovD]

The first round Barry landed some wicked leg kicks and a head punches that defintiely got Mirko's attention. Then he just stopped doing much of anything.

[SRock]

Here's a little nugget I picked up on my morning read of Sherdog. Cro-cop outstruck Pat Barry 89-29 on Saturday. I haven't had time to look at the details on Compustrike, but I would bet that just about all of his strikes came in the opening round. I like Barry and I think that he has the potential to do better. However, at 30, he needs to realize that fights go more than one round. If he doesn't work on his endurance, we'll see in him in Strikeforce or KOTC before too long.

That is an impressive statistic! I agree with you about Barry as well.

[TimmyBoston]

I just watched the Liddell/Franklin fight again. Chuck has to be done. He did look good, in a way. He has such an entertaining style and the fans love him. He was agressive, but slow. He's no longer effective against any top competition. Someone like Jon Jones would have turned his face into hamburger with his speed and Jones is nowhere the striker that some of the other guys are. Wanderlei might be able to take him at this point. I also rewatched that knockout punch of Franklin's 20 times, there's no way that punch would have knocked him out in 2006, but now any solid punch will take him out.

The reason Dana is being so aggressive about Chuck retiring is because he cares about him. Liddell is a cash cow. People will spend money to see him fight, the UFC could continue to make lots of money for at least 4 or 5 fights off him, but Dana is choosing to do the right thing and bow him out. It could be handled privately, but Chuck may not be willing to do bow out yet. He's a competitor. He won't quit, it's just not in his nature. There's no reason for him to risk serious injury any further.

[SRock]

I just watched the Liddell/Franklin fight again. Chuck has to be done. He did look good, in a way. He has such an entertaining style and the fans love him. He was agressive, but slow. He's no longer effective against any top competition. Someone like Jon Jones would have turned his face into hamburger with his speed and Jones is nowhere the striker that some of the other guys are. Wanderlei might be able to take him at this point. I also rewatched that knockout punch of Franklin's 20 times, there's no way that punch would have knocked him out in 2006, but now any solid punch will take him out.

The reason Dana is being so aggressive about Chuck retiring is because he cares about him. Liddell is a cash cow. People will spend money to see him fight, the UFC could continue to make lots of money for at least 4 or 5 fights off him, but Dana is choosing to do the right thing and bow him out. It could be handled privately, but Chuck may not be willing to do bow out yet. He's a competitor. He won't quit, it's just not in his nature. There's no reason for him to risk serious injury any further.

I did the same and agree. He looked OK and if he were a young up and comer with the potential to grow I'd say keep him around but at 40 and on a 1-5 slide it really is time. You are right he wasn't nearly as quick as he has been and it wasn't like Rich's punch was a giant killer.

[Barbash]

I just watched the Liddell/Franklin fight again. Chuck has to be done. He did look good, in a way. He has such an entertaining style and the fans love him. He was agressive, but slow. He's no longer effective against any top competition. Someone like Jon Jones would have turned his face into hamburger with his speed and Jones is nowhere the striker that some of the other guys are. Wanderlei might be able to take him at this point. I also rewatched that knockout punch of Franklin's 20 times, there's no way that punch would have knocked him out in 2006, but now any solid punch will take him out.

The reason Dana is being so aggressive about Chuck retiring is because he cares about him. Liddell is a cash cow. People will spend money to see him fight, the UFC could continue to make lots of money for at least 4 or 5 fights off him, but Dana is choosing to do the right thing and bow him out. It could be handled privately, but Chuck may not be willing to do bow out yet. He's a competitor. He won't quit, it's just not in his nature. There's no reason for him to risk serious injury any further.


I think you might be on to something with thinking that Chuck doesn't want to let go just yet and that is why Dana came out and said it to the media. I also agree that 3 or 4 years ago that punch might have knocked him back, but he wouldn't have ended up on his back asking what just happened.

As for the Barry/Mirko fight I have no clue what Barry was doing in the first when he knocked Mirko to the ground twice and then just stood there. He needed to captilize on those punches and I guess he thought he could just knock Mirko out with one punch. And yes Barry looked gased in the second round!

[Barbash]

Anyone watching TUF final tonight?

[SmoovD]

Just turned it on. Nice to see Yager gas.

[SRock]

I'm watching!


Just turned it on. Nice to see Yager gas.

+1 I was glad to see him lose. I think he's a total jerk. Hopefully his time in the UFC will be limited.

[Barbash]

I'm watching!



+1 I was glad to see him lose. I think he's a total jerk. Hopefully his time in the UFC will be limited.

Not a Yager fan either, but I think they will keep him around for a few more fights. I hope he gases in all of those!

[SRock]

Not a Yager fan either, but I think they will keep him around for a few more fights. I hope he gases in all of those!

I don't doubt they'll keep him around. As much as I hate comparing fighting to wrestling a heel is good for business (think Kimbo) until he's proven useless. If Yager can win a few he'll be around for a bit but if he can't he won't last too long.

I was happy with the Hamil/Jardin decision. That was a fight.

[Barbash]

I don't doubt they'll keep him around. As much as I hate comparing fighting to wrestling a heel is good for business (think Kimbo) until he's proven useless. If Yager can win a few he'll be around for a bit but if he can't he won't last too long.

I was happy with the Hamil/Jardin decision. That was a fight.

Heel is a good term for Yager.


The Hamil/Jardin was fight of the night. I like both fighters, but am a bigger fan of Hamil especially after he was robbed in the Bisping fight.

The TUF final was good and Cort was impressive with his take downs, but I agree with Kenny that he needs to work on his ground and pound once he gets his opponent down and not just rely on submissions.

I like Kenny as a color commentator, but does anyone else think he is horrible at the in ring interviews?

[SRock]

Heel is a good term for Yager.


The Hamil/Jardin was fight of the night. I like both fighters, but am a bigger fan of Hamil especially after he was robbed in the Bisping fight.

The TUF final was good and Cort was impressive with his take downs, but I agree with Kenny that he needs to work on his ground and pound once he gets his opponent down and not just rely on submissions.

I like Kenny as a color commentator, but does anyone else think he is horrible at the in ring interviews?

I agree with all. Kenny is pretty decent at the commentary but his interviews are crap! :lol:

I agree Hamil/Jardin should was FotN!

[SmoovD]

Anyone else catch the Askren/Hornbuckle fight for Bellator tonight? If Askren keeps improving his game his is going to be a beast.

[SRock]

Anyone else catch the Askren/Hornbuckle fight for Bellator tonight? If Askren keeps improving his game his is going to be a beast.

I'm going to try and find it online.

[SmoovD]

I'm going to try and find it online.

It is posted at benaskren dot net.

WEC also put on a another great card Sunday night. Too bad Cecil still gets work (actually in the main event there was a judge that was even worse than Cecil!).

[SRock]

It is posted at benaskren dot net.

WEC also put on a another great card Sunday night. Too bad Cecil still gets work (actually in the main event there was a judge that was even worse than Cecil!).

Askren showed great tenacity. BTW, I can't imagine a worse judge than Cecil.

[SmoovD]

Askren showed great tenacity. BTW, I can't imagine a worse judge than Cecil.

Watch the Varner/Shalarus fight, then check the scorecards. Oh my.

[TimmyBoston]

The complete lack of quality in judging and in many refs in mma today completely disgusts and amazes me.

[SmoovD]

It is the "elephant in the room" for MMA. Everyone knows something needs to happen but nothing does.

[Barbash]

It is the "elephant in the room" for MMA. Everyone knows something needs to happen but nothing does.

When Dana White has to spend part of every post fight interview answering questions about how bad either the ref or judges were you know something is the matter.

I think part of boxings down fall(other than way too many titles) was the fact that everyone thought the judges and refs were in on the fix.

I am not sure what UFC/WEC can do, but I agree that something needs to done and in a hurry before it gives the sport a black eye.

P.S. haven't finished watching the WEC fights from Sunday, but there were some great early fights and it looks like they had another strong showing. I am still not sure if I would pay to watch a payperview.

[Barbash]

Watch the Varner/Shalarus fight, then check the scorecards. Oh my.

I just watch the Varner/Shalarus fight and what a crock! I know Shalarus didn't mean to land the low blows, but he landed 3 of them. How did any Judge score the fight 29-27 in favor of Shalarus even after Shalarus had a point deducted?

[SRock]

The complete lack of quality in judging and in many refs in mma today completely disgusts and amazes me.

If MMA would just get rid of Cecil Peoples and Steve Mazzagatti the overall feel of MMA ref/judging would improve drastically!


It is the "elephant in the room" for MMA. Everyone knows something needs to happen but nothing does.

I agree.


I just watch the Varner/Shalarus fight and what a crock! I know Shalarus didn't mean to land the low blows, but he landed 3 of them. How did any Judge score the fight 29-27 in favor of Shalarus even after Shalarus had a point deducted?

Insane!

[SRock]

Who's watching SF this weekend? I know most who post here will watch if for nothing else to see another Fedor fight. Any other fights on that card that you are looking forward to?

[Sullybob]

I don't have Show time so I wont be watching it. I'll look for the fights on-line on Sunday to see the the Fedor fight:tongue_sm

[SRock]

I don't have Show time so I wont be watching it. I'll look for the fights on-line on Sunday to see the the Fedor fight:tongue_sm

Oh yeah, I forgot about the premium channel angle. All the fights are aired on AFN (http://myafn.dodmedia.osd.mil/) here.

[Sullybob]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the premium channel angle. All the fights are aired on AFN (http://myafn.dodmedia.osd.mil/) here.

When I was in Okinawa we got FEN. Also known as the Forced Entertainment Network. The programming was months to years behind what was currently being shown in the states. The commercials were so bad that my buddies and I still talk about how horrible they were.

[The Nid Hog]

When I was in Okinawa we got FEN. Also known as the Forced Entertainment Network. The programming was months to years behind what was currently being shown in the states. The commercials were so bad that my buddies and I still talk about how horrible they were.

FEN! Watching it was like living in an alternate universe.

[Sullybob]

FEN! Watching it was like living in an alternate universe.

Do you remember the OPSEC commercials? Just horrible....

[The Nid Hog]

Do you remember the OPSEC commercials? Just horrible....

Yeah. I hope that their promotions didn't depend on their acting--they'd still be Lance Corporals.

[The Nid Hog]

Wanderlei is out of UFC 116. Blown ACL and a rib injury. He's being replaced by Chris Leben.

http://www.wandfightteam.com/

I'm sorry to see this happen--I love Wanderlei. I'm glad that I was able to watch him fight during his prime.

[TimmyBoston]

I saw that about Wandy a few days ago. That is lousy. I gotta give Leben props he just fought two weeks ago. Hopefully it will still be an excited fight.


As for SF, Fedor by knockout in the first round.

[The Nid Hog]

I saw that about Wandy a few days ago. That is lousy. I gotta give Leben props he just fought two weeks ago. Hopefully it will still be an excited fight.


As for SF, Fedor by knockout in the first round.

Leben was taking a lot of shots in that fight too. Hope they make it worth his while. It's going to be a strange fight--hard to say what Akiyama is going to bring.

I think that Fedor is going to win decisively, but I don't think that it's going to be a knockout. I'm looking for him to deliver a beating to Werdum like he did to Big Nog.

[SmoovD]

Werdum is not a tough spot. The only real chance he has is to take the fight to the ground...that means getting close enough to get KTFO by Fedor. If Werdum takes his time, limits his exposure and actually manages to take Fedor down I think he can make it three rounds. But I really don't see that happening.

The Cyborg/Finney fight looks to be severely lopsided- both in size and talent.

[The Nid Hog]

The Cyborg/Finney fight looks to be severely lopsided- both in size and talent.

Yeah, I have zero interest in seeing this. Cyborg v. Cuddles? Please.

[SRock]

When I was in Okinawa we got FEN. Also known as the Forced Entertainment Network. The programming was months to years behind what was currently being shown in the states. The commercials were so bad that my buddies and I still talk about how horrible they were.

The programming is much better but the commercials are still terrible. :lol:


FEN! Watching it was like living in an alternate universe.

Especially the bad commercials.


I saw that about Wandy a few days ago. That is lousy. I gotta give Leben props he just fought two weeks ago. Hopefully it will still be an excited fight.


As for SF, Fedor by knockout in the first round.

+1 I ready about Wandy a while back. Too bad.

I'll go with Fedor in the first round as well.

[SRock]

I saw Josh Thompson's finish coming as soon as he got the flip over and pulled out the back door.

Jan Finney is one tough woman! That referee (Kim Winslow) was garbage, straight up garbage!

Cris "Cyborg" Santos is a beast.

[thunderball]

CUNG LE!!!!! :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

[The Nid Hog]

Somewhere Bas Rutten is watching this in a hot tub, screaming "liver shot!"

[thunderball]

No......:ohmy:

[SRock]

CUNG LE!!!!! :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

Great finish for Cung.

Fedor, Fedor, Fedor....

We knew when it happened it would happen this way. Someone would either fall into a lucky submission move (in this case triangle choke) or they'd catch the lucky KO.

Do you think Fedor will retire now as he has threatened.

I still wish he'd find his way to the UFC.

[The Nid Hog]

Man, how can something be both stunning and predictable? You knew it was going to happen sometime, but I didn't think it would be tonight.

I'd like to see Fedor stop and regroup and sign with the UFC. His stock will be down, but what a title run he could mount! If he goes back to Russia and retires to whatever it is he does there, MMA will be all the worse for it. He was a warrior and a mystery--maybe we'll never see another fighter like him again.

[thunderball]

I'll be in seclusion in the west wing if anybody needs me....:crying:

[The Nid Hog]

I'll be in seclusion in the west wing if anybody needs me....:crying:

No kidding. First World Cup, now this.

[TimmyBoston]

Somewhere Bas Rutten is watching this in a hot tub, screaming "liver shot!"

First thing my buddy said when he saw that kick.

[TimmyBoston]

Many moons ago I vehemently argued that Fedor was not the pound for pound king, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. :wink:

He was incredibly humble and I think he will be back better than ever. I think this loss might have kept him from retiring. But now though, I'm very curious how will hold up against the top guys in the UFC. If he wants to really excel to be the best in the world he's going to have to get the heck away from M-1 Global.

[SRock]

Man, how can something be both stunning and predictable? You knew it was going to happen sometime, but I didn't think it would be tonight.

I'd like to see Fedor stop and regroup and sign with the UFC. His stock will be down, but what a title run he could mount! If he goes back to Russia and retires to whatever it is he does there, MMA will be all the worse for it. He was a warrior and a mystery--maybe we'll never see another fighter like him again.

Now that a "legitimate" loss is out of the way (and to an opponent he should have decimated) hopefully he'll wise up, get away from Finkestein and M1 and head to the UFC. His legacy will never be as big as the chatter if he can't hang with the best of the best in the UFC.


I'll be in seclusion in the west wing if anybody needs me....:crying:

:lol::lol: Personally I'm glad he lost. I'm a huge, huge, Fedor fan but he needed this wake up. Hopefully it will re-motivate him and land him in the UFC after his last SF fight.


No kidding. First World Cup, now this.

What's a World Cup? :lol::lol:


First thing my buddy said when he saw that kick.

First thing I said too! :lol:


Many moons ago I vehemently argued that Fedor was not the pound for pound king, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. :wink:

He was incredibly humble and I think he will be back better than ever. I think this loss might have kept him from retiring. But now though, I'm very curious how will hold up against the top guys in the UFC. If he wants to really excel to be the best in the world he's going to have to get the heck away from M-1 Global.

He was humble and I agree he needs to get away from M-1 if he is going to have an actual Legacy.

[The Nid Hog]

Many moons ago I vehemently argued that Fedor was not the pound for pound king, I'm glad I stuck to my guns. :wink:



He was humble and I agree he needs to get away from M-1 if he is going to have an actual Legacy.

I think that you guys are right talking about recent history--let's say since Fedor took the fight with Hong-Man Choi (or even Matt Lindand). But from the time he debuted with Rings through his domination of Pride? That's his legacy and I don't think anything is going to change that. That's when he should be rightly regarded as the pound for pound top fighter in the world.

I would still like to see him make a run in UFC, but I think that he's going to have to change his training methods as well as his business approach. Instead of lifting boulders, wrestling bears, swimming across frozen rivers, burning villages or whatever it is that he does in Russia, he should get himself into a good camp in the US. If I were Fedor, I'd pick up the phone and call Randy. "Sorry our fight never got off the ground. Do you have room at Extreme Couture for another silverback?" Work with a guy who knows how to train an aging fighter. He could probably stay in Dana's bonus room.

[SRock]

I think that you guys are right talking about recent history--let's say since Fedor took the fight with Hong-Man Choi (or even Matt Lindand). But from the time he debuted with Rings through his domination of Pride? That's his legacy and I don't think anything is going to change that. That's when he should be rightly regarded as the pound for pound top fighter in the world.

I would still like to see him make a run in UFC, but I think that he's going to have to change his training methods as well as his business approach. Instead of lifting boulders, wrestling bears, swimming across frozen rivers, burning villages or whatever it is that he does in Russia, he should get himself into a good camp in the US. If I were Fedor, I'd pick up the phone and call Randy. "Sorry our fight never got off the ground. Do you have room at Extreme Couture for another silverback?" Work with a guy who knows how to train an aging fighter. He could probably stay in Dana's bonus room.

I agree 100%

[Left Coast DJ]

First MMA show I watched. I'm a huge boxing fan and I usually get bored by MMA fighters who just grapple and roll around the floor for the entire round (I enjoyed Kung Le's roundhouse). I've heard of Fedor and wanted see what the hype was about. He got OWND by a guy who wouldn't let go of his arm. <Letdown>

[SRock]

First MMA show I watched. I'm a huge boxing fan and I usually get bored by MMA fighters who just grapple and roll around the floor for the entire round (I enjoyed Kung Le's roundhouse). I've heard of Fedor and wanted see what the hype was about. He got OWND by a guy who wouldn't let go of his arm. <Letdown>

Unfortunately Fedor fell into a tight/nasty triangle choke and all the boxing in the world wasn't going to get him, or anyone else for that matter, out of it.

[SmoovD]

I did not catch the fights Saturday night but I did read the fight recap on Sherdog. All I can say is WTH was Fedor thinking? Werdum attempts to pull guard in the opening moments and Fedor plays along? I would have imagined that Fedor would have wanted to keep this fight standing. At least until both were good any sweaty. I don't know if Fedor just took Werdum too lightly but that was a tactical mistake. And he paid for it.

[Barbash]

I did not catch the fights Saturday night but I did read the fight recap on Sherdog. All I can say is WTH was Fedor thinking? Werdum attempts to pull guard in the opening moments and Fedor plays along? I would have imagined that Fedor would have wanted to keep this fight standing. At least until both were good any sweaty. I don't know if Fedor just took Werdum too lightly but that was a tactical mistake. And he paid for it.

Just watched a replay of the fight and I think you are right in that it looks like he took Werdum too lightly. He made a rookie type mistake and got caught.

I don't think this one fight does anything to his legacy or the argument that he should be listed as one of the pound for pound contendors or tops on heavyweight lists. This was his first lost in 10 years and that lost was because he couldn't continue on in a tournament due to a cut.

I want to see him in the UFC, but of course I want to see all the top contendors in the UFC, and put him up against the top contendors there. Than we can see how much wrestling a bear prepares you for a fight. By the way I agree with Nid Hog that he needs to get into a top camp.

[The Nid Hog]

I don't think this one fight does anything to his legacy or the argument that he should be listed as one of the pound for pound contendors or tops on heavyweight lists. This was his first lost in 10 years and that lost was because he couldn't continue on in a tournament due to a cut.


For me, the terrible consequence of Fedor's defeat is that it weakens my argument that Fedor represents the next trend in men's physiques.

[SRock]

For me, the terrible consequence of Fedor's defeat is that it weakens my argument that Fedor represents the next trend in men's physiques.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Barbash]

For me, the terrible consequence of Fedor's defeat is that it weakens my argument that Fedor represents the next trend in men's physiques.

:w00t: Too bad this is probably too long for a Custom User Title!

[SRock]

:w00t: Too bad this is probably too long for a Custom User Title!

You'd be surprised! :lol:

[Barbash]

Just noticed Rob, but you are only a few posts away from becoming the Top poster on B&B.

[SmoovD]

Actually, I think Ouch has already flipped the "post-o-meter".

Anyhoo, who is ready to make a call on the Lesnar/Carwin fight?

I am leaning Carwin but this thing could be over in a hurry given the punching power and the relatively untested chins of each of the fighters.

Too bad the rest of the card is so mundane.

[Sullybob]

The Brock/Carwin fight could go either way. Both guys are beasts. I'm going with Carwin by KO or TKO. I think that if Brock can take him down and keep him down he can win, but if Carwin can keep it standing he takes it.

[SmoovD]

Lesnar has impressive takedowns but Carwin has a solid wrestling background. It will be interesting if Lesnar forces takedown attempts without setting them up. If so I think Carwin will be ready for them. If not, it will be interesting to see if Carwin can get off his back any better than Mir with Lesnar grinding from the top.

[Monkeydad]

An MMA fighter died after his debut:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/28/michael-kirkham-dies-following-pro-mma-debut/

Michael Kirkham

A brain hemorrhage...really surprising this doesn't happen more...but a horrible story.

[The Nid Hog]

The Brock/Carwin fight could go either way. Both guys are beasts. I'm going with Carwin by KO or TKO. I think that if Brock can take him down and keep him down he can win, but if Carwin can keep it standing he takes it.

I'm giving the edge to Carwin too. I think that Carwin's standup will make the difference. On the other hand, I would kind of like to see the fight go the distance. After five rounds, what would those guys look like?


An MMA fighter died after his debut:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/28/michael-kirkham-dies-following-pro-mma-debut/

Michael Kirkham

A brain hemorrhage...really surprising this doesn't happen more...but a horrible story.

I think that I saw on Sherdog that he was a 6'9" lightweight. For some reason, that set off a warning bell for me.

[SRock]

Just noticed Rob, but you are only a few posts away from becoming the Top poster on B&B.

I know, :lol: Ouch reminds me of that fairly regularly.


Actually, I think Ouch has already flipped the "post-o-meter".

Anyhoo, who is ready to make a call on the Lesnar/Carwin fight?

I am leaning Carwin but this thing could be over in a hurry given the punching power and the relatively untested chins of each of the fighters.

Too bad the rest of the card is so mundane.

Nope, he hasn't/nor can you flip the meter.

As for the fight I truly believe it can go either way. I think Brock is stronger and faster (freakishly fast for a man his size) but I think Shane has the heavier hands. If this one stays on the feet I see Shane winning, but if Brock forces the takedown I see Brock winning. This is one fight I wouldn't bet on unless I was going to put money on both fighters.


The Brock/Carwin fight could go either way. Both guys are beasts. I'm going with Carwin by KO or TKO. I think that if Brock can take him down and keep him down he can win, but if Carwin can keep it standing he takes it.

Exactly! :thumbup1:


An MMA fighter died after his debut:

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/28/michael-kirkham-dies-following-pro-mma-debut/

Michael Kirkham

A brain hemorrhage...really surprising this doesn't happen more...but a horrible story.

Actually statistically MMA is far safer than boxing. This dude was probably dead by age 40 anyway. He was horribly underweight for his massive height.


I'm giving the edge to Carwin too. I think that Carwin's standup will make the difference. On the other hand, I would kind of like to see the fight go the distance. After five rounds, what would those guys look like?



I think that I saw on Sherdog that he was a 6'9" lightweight. For some reason, that set off a warning bell for me.

Great minds!

[TimmyBoston]

I don't mean to diminish his death, but there is no way a human being can be 6 foot 9 inches tall and weigh 155 pounds and be anywhere close to healthy.


May he rest in peace.

[TimmyBoston]

As for UFC 116, I think Carwin will be victorious. The illness and ring rust will hurt Lesnar. Though, I'm a big fan of both of these guys, I'll be happy with either outcome, as long as it's a fun fight.

Akiyama takes Leben

Lytle takes Brown

Sozinkski (spelling?) and Pellegrino will also both be victorious.

[SRock]

As for UFC 116, I think Carwin will be victorious. The illness and ring rust will hurt Lesnar. Though, I'm a big fan of both of these guys, I'll be happy with either outcome, as long as it's a fun fight.

Akiyama takes Leben

Lytle takes Brown

Sozinkski (spelling?) and Pellegrino will also both be victorious.

I'd agree with these, but I still can't really say one way or another who will walk away with the heavyweight title.

[Sullybob]

I'm giving the edge to Carwin too. I think that Carwin's standup will make the difference. On the other hand, I would kind of like to see the fight go the distance. After five rounds, what would those guys look like?



I think that I saw on Sherdog that he was a 6'9" lightweight. For some reason, that set off a warning bell for me.


As much as Brock sweats after 5 rounds someone would drown...


That set off warning bells for me too.

[Barbash]

I am going with Brock. The ring rust scares me, but I am thinking he is going to get inside and take Carwin to ground and win through ground and pound. Saying that I like Carwin and if he wins I will not be upset.

I am not sure about the Akiyama/Leben fight and think that Leben might be fighting too quickly after this last bout a few weeks back, but I am going to go with Leben anyways. He seems to really have matured in his last few fights.

[Sullybob]

I am going with Brock. The ring rust scares me, but I am thinking he is going to get inside and take Carwin to ground and win through ground and pound. Saying that I like Carwin and if he wins I will not be upset.

I am not sure about the Akiyama/Leben fight and think that Leben might be fighting too quickly after this last bout a few weeks back, but I am going to go with Leben anyways. He seems to really have matured in his last few fights.

I'm going with Leben too. I hope that Chris fights smart, again. It has been nice to see him with a game plan other then his usual wade in and throw bombs.

[SRock]

For the record I'm pumped for the Lesnar/Carwin fight. I think the only thing in recent years that would have excited me more was a Fedor/Couture fight a few years ago. But since we'll never get that one, come on big dogs! :thumbup1:

[The Nid Hog]

All you guys picking Leben have neglected one key factor.

Akiyama might just be singing his own walkout music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_9KIl_rkI

That is a level of awesomeness that no normal fighter can reach. It's going to be like the Pied Piper. Chris Leben will hear the beautiful tones of Akiyama's song and his heart will be broken. There will still be tears streaming down his face when the fight starts and he will submit almost instantly.

[SRock]

All you guys picking Leben have neglected one key factor.

Akiyama might just be singing his own walkout music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_9KIl_rkI

That is a level of awesomeness that no normal fighter can reach. It's going to be like the Pied Piper. Chris Leben will hear the beautiful tones of Akiyama's song and his heart will be broken. There will still be tears streaming down his face when the fight starts and he will submit almost instantly.

Indeed that's of near Chuck Norris epic proportions!

[Sullybob]

All you guys picking Leben have neglected one key factor.

Akiyama might just be singing his own walkout music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_9KIl_rkI

That is a level of awesomeness that no normal fighter can reach. It's going to be like the Pied Piper. Chris Leben will hear the beautiful tones of Akiyama's song and his heart will be broken. There will still be tears streaming down his face when the fight starts and he will submit almost instantly.

That is epic!

But only Chris Leben can "Chris Leben" a door. :lol::lol:

[mikeon]

But only Chris Leben can "Chris Leben" a door. :lol::lol:

Rampage ain't so bad either
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1MAADq2VXA&feature=related

[Sullybob]

Rampage ain't so bad either
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1MAADq2VXA&feature=related

:lol::lol:

Remember what Dana said about it? He said Rampage "Chris Lebened the door"!:lol::lol:

[The Nid Hog]

Last night I watched the first Fedor v. Big Nog, then Fedor v. CroCop. Can't believe that they were from 2004-2005. Seems like ages ago. It would sure be nice to see those guys back to form once again. I don't think that it will happen for Big Nog--he has rolled up a million miles on his body since then and it doesn't look like he 'll ever get over all that. Mirko looked better against Pat Barry, but I still think that the fire is out. But Fedor? I think that he's healthy enough that he should be able to get back on track, but I'm pretty pessimistic about him doing that in the UFC. I hate the thought of him finishing out his career knocking down cans in crappy M-1 co-productions. It would be nice to see the Last Emperor go out swinging.

[mikeon]

:lol::lol:

Remember what Dana said about it? He said Rampage "Chris Lebened the door"!:lol::lol:

Oh, I guess my Dana White filter has been working :001_tongu

[mikeon]

Last night I watched the first Fedor v. Big Nog, then Fedor v. CroCop. Can't believe that they were from 2004-2005. Seems like ages ago. It would sure be nice to see those guys back to form once again. I don't think that it will happen for Big Nog--he has rolled up a million miles on his body since then and it doesn't look like he 'll ever get over all that.

And getting hit by a truck isn't a good way to start your career either.


Mirko looked better against Pat Barry, but I still think that the fire is out.

Maybe Mirko vs. Nog 2 will be the way to go.

[The Nid Hog]

Maybe Mirko vs. Nog 2 will be the way to go.

I wonder what that would be like? Big Nog looks completely broken down, but he still has a huge heart. Although there were some flashes in the Barry fight, Mirko seems like he's given up.

[SRock]

:lol::lol:

Remember what Dana said about it? He said Rampage "Chris Lebened the door"!:lol::lol:

Yup, he sure did! :lol:


Last night I watched the first Fedor v. Big Nog, then Fedor v. CroCop. Can't believe that they were from 2004-2005. Seems like ages ago. It would sure be nice to see those guys back to form once again. I don't think that it will happen for Big Nog--he has rolled up a million miles on his body since then and it doesn't look like he 'll ever get over all that. Mirko looked better against Pat Barry, but I still think that the fire is out. But Fedor? I think that he's healthy enough that he should be able to get back on track, but I'm pretty pessimistic about him doing that in the UFC. I hate the thought of him finishing out his career knocking down cans in crappy M-1 co-productions. It would be nice to see the Last Emperor go out swinging.

You got that right. I wish Fedor could get the heck out from under that mess with M-1. He needs to be in the UFC and he needs to face top tier heavyweights!


I wonder what that would be like? Big Nog looks completely broken down, but he still has a huge heart. Although there were some flashes in the Barry fight, Mirko seems like he's given up.

I know this much I think it would still sell PPV buys!

[The Nid Hog]

Picks for tonight? I think that Carwin is going to get the win. We know he's going to have an excellent game plan and he's coming in with superb preparation. Of course he has heavy hands, but I think that we'll see something new from him. Not saying that he's going to slap a triangle on Lesnar, but wouldn't it be cool if this fight mirrored Fedor's loss?

On paper, I think that Akiyama should be able to win easily. Unfortunately, I am always disappointed by Japanese fighters (or guys who were fighting in Japan, for that matter) when they come to the US. Conditioning and preparation are still stuck in 2004.

Chris Lytle vs. Matt Brown
Krzysztof Soszynski vs. Stephan Bonnar [This fight is a career-ender for Bonnar, but I don't think that it'll do much for the journeyman Soszynski. And am I the only one who thinks that Krzysztof looks like a young George "The Animal" Steele]
George Sotiropoulos vs. Kurt Pellegrino

Down deeper, I think that Grove will pull off a win. I haven't thought about the rest.

[SmoovD]

Picks for tonight? I think that Carwin is going to get the win. We know he's going to have an excellent game plan and he's coming in with superb preparation. Of course he has heavy hands, but I think that we'll see something new from him. Not saying that he's going to slap a triangle on Lesnar, but wouldn't it be cool if this fight mirrored Fedor's loss?

On paper, I think that Akiyama should be able to win easily. Unfortunately, I am always disappointed by Japanese fighters (or guys who were fighting in Japan, for that matter) when they come to the US. Conditioning and preparation are still stuck in 2004.

Chris Lytle vs. Matt Brown
Krzysztof Soszynski vs. Stephan Bonnar [This fight is a career-ender for Bonnar, but I don't think that it'll do much for the journeyman Soszynski. And am I the only one who thinks that Krzysztof looks like a young George "The Animal" Steele]
George Sotiropoulos vs. Kurt Pellegrino

Down deeper, I think that Grove will pull off a win. I haven't thought about the rest.

Same here but for Pellegrino over Sotiropoulus.

[blary54]

Lesnar is very over rated. He's a beast but Carwin will take him.

[Barbash]

Lesnar is very over rated. He's a beast but Carwin will take him.

I don't think Lesnar is over rated at all. Each fight he has improved and he looks like a true heavyweight champion.

Saying that, I think the year plus layoff is going to hurt him and I am going with Carwin in the fight.

[SRock]

As for UFC 116, I think Carwin will be victorious. The illness and ring rust will hurt Lesnar. Though, I'm a big fan of both of these guys, I'll be happy with either outcome, as long as it's a fun fight.

Akiyama takes Leben

Lytle takes Brown

Sozinkski (spelling?) and Pellegrino will also both be victorious.

I still stand with Tims picks on this one.

Oh and Brock is not over rated in any way shape or form. That guy decimated Randy Couture and lets be honest he destroyed Frank Mir 2x. When he first announced his intentions in coming to MMA/UFC I actually wanted him to fail, but it was painfully (for those who faced him) obvious within moments that he was for real. I still won't call this fight. I think if they stand Shane wins and if it hits the mat Brock wins but it could easily go either way.

Here are some thoughts I put up on FB about Carwin/Lesnar:

I don't think there is a loser in this one. If Brock wins his reign continues if Shane wins a genuinely good guy will be sitting atop both the UFC and the HW division around the world. This could be fight of the year!

I don't care who wins so long as it's a good fight.

And others:

That arm bar that Petruzelli tapped to looked Brutal. The Schaub KO was no surprise. Harris Vs. Branch has been pretty lame through the first two rds.

Ok so Harris redeemed himself with that KO slam. He also gets mad props for realizing he had the KO and stepping off without unnecessarily hitting Branch again.

[Barbash]

And others:

That arm bar that Petruzelli tapped to looked Brutal. The Schaub KO was no surprise. Harris Vs. Branch has been pretty lame through the first two rds.

Ok so Harris redeemed himself with that KO slam. He also gets mad props for realizing he had the KO and stepping off without unnecessarily hitting Branch again.


I don't see how Petruzelli's arm is not broken or at least the elbow is dislocated. I have never seen someone tap out like that before.

Agreed that the Harris fight was boring until the end slam and I take my hat off to Harris for not throwing another punch.

Bonnar amazes me! He does nothing for the longest time(mainly due to injury) and then goes out and gets in a fan pleasing, fight of the night type fight just when you think he is done.

[Barbash]

:ohmy:

How did Brock survive the first round?!? And then wins by arm triangle choke?!?


Crippler looked great for only 2 weeks off and should have moved him self to the top of the weight class. Dana rewards fighters for stepping up and he stepped up in a big way.

[Mr_Amazing]

:ohmy:

How did Brock survive the first round?!? And then wins by arm triangle choke?!?


Crippler looked great for only 2 weeks off and should have moved him self to the top of the weight class. Dana rewards fighters for stepping up and he stepped up in a big way.

That was quite an interesting fight. Lesnar was really getting pounded and it looked as though he was giving up towards the end of round one when he didn't get up when given space. I can't say I expected it to end in a tap out considering the fact that Lesnar could have delivered some punishment once he got on top of Carwin.

[SRock]

For a card that was considered by "one fight card" this really turned out to be a great PPV. I got it for free but I would've been thoroughly pleased even if I payed for it!


I don't see how Petruzelli's arm is not broken or at least the elbow is dislocated. I have never seen someone tap out like that before.

Agreed that the Harris fight was boring until the end slam and I take my hat off to Harris for not throwing another punch.

Bonnar amazes me! He does nothing for the longest time(mainly due to injury) and then goes out and gets in a fan pleasing, fight of the night type fight just when you think he is done.

I agree. The Silverback has to have some sort of damage to his elbow. I didn't expect Bonner to win but good on him for pulling it off.


:ohmy:

How did Brock survive the first round?!? And then wins by arm triangle choke?!?


Crippler looked great for only 2 weeks off and should have moved him self to the top of the weight class. Dana rewards fighters for stepping up and he stepped up in a big way.

Brock is a BAMF (no I can't/won't explain that acronym) and there is no other explanation for it!


That was quite an interesting fight. Lesnar was really getting pounded and it looked as though he was giving up towards the end of round one when he didn't get up when given space. I can't say I expected it to end in a tap out considering the fact that Lesnar could have delivered some punishment once he got on top of Carwin.

Brock played it smart, very smart. It was a deliberate move not to get back up when given space. Shows Brocks respect for Carwins hands. He knew if he got up he ran the risk of getting KO'd. He did the smart thing and weathered the storm. I got nothing but mad mad props for both of these guys.

[Hogans1-Iron]

Every fight in UFC 116 was brilliant.
I rank this the best UFC ever :thumbup1:
With another referee,Lesner would have lost,for sure!

[Barbash]

Every fight in UFC 116 was brilliant.
I rank this the best UFC ever :thumbup1:
With another referee,Lesner would have lost,for sure!

This was one of the better ones in a long while and also agree with you about the ref. I thought he was going to step in a few times during that first round. Brock was protecting himself, but Carwin was just raining blows down on him.

Carwin will be back! There isn't any Heavyweight that could have taken that beating. I see him fighting someone like Junior dos Santos while Brock fights Cain Velasquez and if(more like when) they win those fights they will have a rematch.

[SRock]

I gotta agree with you guys. The ref deserves mad props for being able to see/realize that Brock was still with it, still defending and still surviving. Brock needs to buy that guy a car! :lol:

[SmoovD]

That was one of the better UFC cards in quite some time. Sorry to say that I missed the Lytle/Brown scrap...neighbors stopped by and all that jazz. The Leben/Akiyama fight was insane. Leben was out on his feet. How does he keep going? Rogan's zombie call was pretty funny.

While on the announcers, Goldie pulled another "Goldie" with the "polarizing figure versus an immovable force" bit regarding Lesnar/Carwin. I tend to think that Rogan improvs just to screw with Goldberg.

The headline was exciting for about 3 1/2 minutes: from the start to the gassing of Carwin. When the second round began it was clear that Carwin had very little left in his tank. I can admit that I didn't see the sub coming. If Lesnar isn't careful he is gonna turn into a real MMA beast. Not that the regular beast was fairing poorly, mind you.

Now on to Silva/Sonnen and Toney/Couture!

[Sullybob]

I gotta agree with you guys. The ref deserves mad props for being able to see/realize that Brock was still with it, still defending and still surviving. Brock needs to buy that guy a car! :lol:

Brock thanked the ref in the post fight press conference.


I hope that Leben can stay on track. He looked great last night.

[MikeyAces]

Such a great card. Missed the first fight regrettably, but the rest of it more than made up for it. The Lytle/Brown fight was great. I can't say enough about the Leben/Akiyama fight, those dudes came to bang. I hope Chris Leben can take advantage of this momentum and continue to tear it up. I'm also very excited to see Akiyama again, that guy had a hell of a chin, and a ton of heart. As for Carwin/Lesner, I can't believe the fight wasn't stopped in the first. It was unfair even, Lesner was not defending himself whatsoever, and Carwin threw everything he had at him. Brock answered some questions and raised other ones. I know Carwin probably has the most dangerous hands in the division, but Brock went down, and turtled after one decent uppercut. He had no clue how to defend himself. But now he seems to have a serious submission game also. I'm curious to see how he develops as a striker, 'cause he looked a mess.

[SRock]

As for Carwin/Lesner, I can't believe the fight wasn't stopped in the first. It was unfair even, Lesner was not defending himself whatsoever, and Carwin threw everything he had at him. Brock answered some questions and raised other ones. I know Carwin probably has the most dangerous hands in the division, but Brock went down, and turtled after one decent uppercut. He had no clue how to defend himself. But now he seems to have a serious submission game also. I'm curious to see how he develops as a striker, 'cause he looked a mess.

I couldn't disagree more. In fact not only does the Ref get mad props for realizing that Brock was defending and was ok, but Brock gets mad props for the way he went about it. He'd block a few punches and then push off. Then he'd block a few more and kick Carwin back. Brock did an amazing job of doing just enough to allow Shane to gas while not forcing the ref to stop it.

As much as I wanted to hate Brock as an MMA competitor the fact remains he is, he's #1 and despite holes in his game, he really is amazing.

[The Nid Hog]

He had no clue how to defend himself. But now he seems to have a serious submission game also. I'm curious to see how he develops as a striker, 'cause he looked a mess.

I was impressed that Lesnar wound up with a sub, but I don't think that I'd call it serious quite yet. It looked to me that he transitioned to the choke from the same position that he used to brutalize Mir, so in many ways he's moving out from familiar ground. And Carwin was absolutely on empty. You could see him struggling to get some space, but this was a choke that Brock earned with power and got because Carwin was exhausted. When we see him throwing up a ham to go for a gogoplata, then he'll be serious.

I was also impressed with Leben's performance. He has really come a long way. But Akiyama? When are Japanese fighters going to learn to up their game via conditioning when they come to the US? It was Akiyama's fight to lose and he lost it in the gym before they ever touched gloves.

[thunderball]

It was Akiyama's fight to lose and he lost it in the gym before they ever touched gloves.

My thoughts exactly. Exciting fight to watch but very frustrating at the same time. I think Akiyama has more accurate and faster strikes, better grappling, and obviously better throws...but he was just too gassed. Fun fight though! :thumbup1:

[mikeon]

When are Japanese fighters going to learn to up their game via conditioning when they come to the US? It was Akiyama's fight to lose and he lost it in the gym before they ever touched gloves.

He could barely get his hands off his knees for the post fight interview. That was worse than CB after his fight with Jay Silva.

Hopefully Aoki/Kawajiri will show us the true samurai spirit (although I doubt it from Aoki :w00t:).

[TimmyBoston]

I gotta agree with you guys. The ref deserves mad props for being able to see/realize that Brock was still with it, still defending and still surviving. Brock needs to buy that guy a car! :lol:

I was so pissed when I saw Josh Rosenthal in there instead of Herb Dean, but he really impressed me. Helluva job calling that one.

The UFC is on a roll, great PPV in 115 and now another awesome one with 116. I was wrong with almost all of my picks, but what a great pay per view. The Leben/Akiyama brawl will go down in my book as one of the great fights of all time.

[TimmyBoston]

I couldn't disagree more. In fact not only does the Ref get mad props for realizing that Brock was defending and was ok, but Brock gets mad props for the way he went about it. He'd block a few punches and then push off. Then he'd block a few more and kick Carwin back. Brock did an amazing job of doing just enough to allow Shane to gas while not forcing the ref to stop it.

As much as I wanted to hate Brock as an MMA competitor the fact remains he is, he's #1 and despite holes in his game, he really is amazing.

Huge +1

[SRock]

I was so pissed when I saw Josh Rosenthal in there instead of Herb Dean

So was I but he guaranteed he'll have a safe job for a long time to come with that performance! :thumbup1:

[MikeyAces]

I give Brock a ton of props for simply surviving, he was really getting tattoo'd, whether the majority had landed or not. I just kinda thought that carwin went at him with such intensity trying to stop the fight, anyone would've punched them self out and been gassed. But I guess by the same token, Carwin should've let Brock up when he had the chance and try and drop him for good.

Considering Carwin being as good as a grappling dummy in the 2nd round, I probably am overreacting about Brock's submission game. He just transitioned to that choke with such ease.

[TimmyBoston]

I give Brock a ton of props for simply surviving, he was really getting tattoo'd, whether the majority had landed or not. I just kinda thought that carwin went at him with such intensity trying to stop the fight, anyone would've punched them self out and been gassed. But I guess by the same token, Carwin should've let Brock up when he had the chance and try and drop him for good.

.

Brock's forearms are as wide as most people's legs, when he covered up nothing was getting though. I agree with you, Shane is clearly the better fighter standing I don't know why he simply didn't let Brock up then knock him down again. I think Carwin made a serious tactical error that most likely cost him the Heavyweight belt.

[SRock]

Brock's forearms are as wide as most people's legs, when he covered up nothing was getting though. I agree with you, Shane is clearly the better fighter standing I don't know why he simply didn't let Brock up then knock him down again. I think Carwin made a serious tactical error that most likely cost him the Heavyweight belt.

I agree for the most part. Though after I re-watched the footage I don't think Brock was rocked at all, just surprised by Shane's power.

[The Nid Hog]

I think Carwin made a serious tactical error that most likely cost him the Heavyweight belt.

You're exactly right. He would have been much better served by letting Brock up and going straight at him when he was still stunned. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here.

Apart from gassing, Akiyama also made some serious tactical mistakes. Leben earned every bit of that victory, but I think that Akiyama could have salvaged a win if he had fought with a little bit more sense. I know exactly how he felt when he was in Leben's guard in the last round, but he's a pro and should have played it better.

[TimmyBoston]

Apart from gassing, Akiyama also made some serious tactical mistakes. Leben earned every bit of that victory, but I think that Akiyama could have salvaged a win if he had fought with a little bit more sense. I know exactly how he felt when he was in Leben's guard in the last round, but he's a pro and should have played it better.

I agree with you. I'm a long time Leben fan so I wanted him to win and I always have some pull for guys who take a fight on short notice, it shows heart to me, but I didn't think he'd win, I figured Akiyama's judo would be too much. But after that fight (and I just rewatched it) that was without a doubt one of the great fights of all time. I'm also a believer in that a fighter I want to see puts on a great show, not necessarily wins. Akiyama put on a great show and he earned a new fan in me after that fight.

[SRock]

You're exactly right. He would have been much better served by letting Brock up and going straight at him when he was still stunned. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here.

Apart from gassing, Akiyama also made some serious tactical mistakes. Leben earned every bit of that victory, but I think that Akiyama could have salvaged a win if he had fought with a little bit more sense. I know exactly how he felt when he was in Leben's guard in the last round, but he's a pro and should have played it better.

:yesnod:


I agree with you. I'm a long time Leben fan so I wanted him to win and I always have some pull for guys who take a fight on short notice, it shows heart to me, but I didn't think he'd win, I figured Akiyama's judo would be too much. But after that fight (and I just rewatched it) that was without a doubt one of the great fights of all time. I'm also a believer in that a fighter I want to see puts on a great show, not necessarily wins. Akiyama put on a great show and he earned a new fan in me after that fight.

:thumbup1:

[Barbash]

I agree with you. I'm a long time Leben fan so I wanted him to win and I always have some pull for guys who take a fight on short notice, it shows heart to me, but I didn't think he'd win, I figured Akiyama's judo would be too much. But after that fight (and I just rewatched it) that was without a doubt one of the great fights of all time. I'm also a believer in that a fighter I want to see puts on a great show, not necessarily wins. Akiyama put on a great show and he earned a new fan in me after that fight.

I was pulling for Leben as well, but I was more worried about the fact that he just had fought two weeks ago and might not be 100%.

When Akiyama had him on his back and Leben was doing those double punches to the side of the head I was laughing. He was out pointing him from his back(although not too many judges are smart enough to call it that way).

I do give Akiyama a lot of credit and respect. He had trained for a totally different fight and then 2 weeks out he gets thrown a curve. He needs to improve on his conditioning, but I am a fan of his now.

[TimmyBoston]

I was pulling for Leben as well, but I was more worried about the fact that he just had fought two weeks ago and might not be 100%.

When Akiyama had him on his back and Leben was doing those double punches to the side of the head I was laughing. He was out pointing him from his back(although not too many judges are smart enough to call it that way).

I do give Akiyama a lot of credit and respect. He had trained for a totally different fight and then 2 weeks out he gets thrown a curve. He needs to improve on his conditioning, but I am a fan of his now.

That's an excellent point. I was thinking the same thing and I knew if it went the judges scorecards he would lose even though he didn't deserve to.

Rewatching the fight, the fans growing disappointment with the judges and officials. Every ref was booed as their name was called, except Herb Dean.

[SRock]

I was pulling for Leben as well, but I was more worried about the fact that he just had fought two weeks ago and might not be 100%.

When Akiyama had him on his back and Leben was doing those double punches to the side of the head I was laughing. He was out pointing him from his back(although not too many judges are smart enough to call it that way).

I do give Akiyama a lot of credit and respect. He had trained for a totally different fight and then 2 weeks out he gets thrown a curve. He needs to improve on his conditioning, but I am a fan of his now.

This was nearly as funny as Petruzelli's double hammer fists. He really did look like a Silverback.

[Barbash]

This was nearly as funny as Petruzelli's double hammer fists. He really did look like a Silverback.

:laugh: Forgot about that. I think you could hear Rogan laughing in the background.

[SRock]

:laugh: Forgot about that. I think you could hear Rogan laughing in the background.

:yesnod: he was!

[Barbash]

Has anyone been following StrikeForce and their potential signing of David Batista the former WWE wrestler?

The guy has no martial arts or real wrestling background and just started training jiu jitsu this year, but they are comparing him to Brock?!?

They are talking about putting him up against Herschel Walker as a main event. Do they really want to go out of business?

[SRock]

Has anyone been following StrikeForce and their potential signing of David Batista the former WWE wrestler?

The guy has no martial arts or real wrestling background and just started training jiu jitsu this year, but they are comparing him to Brock?!?

They are talking about putting him up against Herschel Walker as a main event. Do they really want to go out of business?

I follow all MMA news.

This didn't surprise me at all though. Coker is an idiot. Batista is 41 years old and while he looks like a beast he isn't 1/5th the athlete that Brock is. Lesnar is a super athlete. A freak of nature. He moves like a Welterweight.

Batista/Walker is a joke and proof that StrikeFarce is just that, a Farce.

[Kenno]

I couldn't disagree more. In fact not only does the Ref get mad props for realizing that Brock was defending and was ok, but Brock gets mad props for the way he went about it. He'd block a few punches and then push off. Then he'd block a few more and kick Carwin back. Brock did an amazing job of doing just enough to allow Shane to gas while not forcing the ref to stop it.

As much as I wanted to hate Brock as an MMA competitor the fact remains he is, he's #1 and despite holes in his game, he really is amazing.

i gotta give a thumbs up to brock for coming back after a serious injury and fighting arguably the next best heavyweight, most other guys would have a warm up to get some confidence and get in fight fit shape. a really fit and fight ready brock would beat carwin easier.

man brock is pretty fast for a big guy with he's short movements, no so with he's punching speed but those little quick movements of his that take most big guys by suprise and once he gets you down he makes it very hard to get back up.

carwin on the other hand is vey slow with his punching but has good power, he's chin is not the best so if he is gonna stand and throw he better learn how to be a bit quicker to the punch or guys like cain and me mate junior ds will get in first and test that chin. someone with a really good stiff jab would frustrate the big fella till they get and opening to land a big one.

is brock really a loudmouth or does he glam it up for the crowd to gey some attention and therefore $$$$$$$ ala ali?

personally i think he is probably a nice guy outside the ring but looks at ufc as entertainment and business and $$$.

well done brock.

[TimmyBoston]

I'm bummed, not another UFC card til August. :blushing:


Til then, we'll just have to figure out a way to fix the judging. :001_rolle

[SmoovD]

I'm bummed, not another UFC card til August. :blushing:


Til then, we'll just have to figure out a way to fix the judging. :001_rolle

Isn't it already fixed?

The few weeks until the next card will be filled with smack-talk courtesy of Sonnen and the Nogs. I find it somewhat entertaining. I would love to see Sonnen dump and grind Anderson but I have serious reservations.

[Barbash]

Yeah, but there are some interesting fights in August.

Jon Jones and Mark Munoz both have fights on the Versus Free show.

I don't really care much for the Silva/Sonnen matchup, but Silva might try to make up for his horrible showing in his last fight and could come out swinging trying to win back the fans he lost and get White off his back. Also on that card you have Fitch/Alves and Nelson/Santos which should be good fights. Also Hughes is fighting.

But the card that excites me the most is Penn/Edgar 2 at the end of the month(or I guess it should be Edgar/Penn since Edgar is the title holder). I am putting my money on Penn coming in and dominating that fight. Couture/Toney is a side show, but it should draw a good number of new fans because of Toney's name and Couture's new movie. Marquardt is coming off a lost, but with a win would be right back up there at the top of the list for a title shot. Florian/Maynard should be a good fight as well and there are number of up and comers on that back in the card as well.

Could be a good month.

[SRock]

I think the August card will be good and if it is I don't mind the wait. Personally I'd rather have a PPV every other month if it meant stacked cards. I know it will never happen that way though.

Did everyone see Brock signed on to fight Cain? How do you think that fight will go? Personally if Carwin didn't pull it off I don't see Cain pulling it off either.

[Barbash]

I think the August card will be good and if it is I don't mind the wait. Personally I'd rather have a PPV every other month if it meant stacked cards. I know it will never happen that way though.

Did everyone see Brock signed on to fight Cain? How do you think that fight will go? Personally if Carwin didn't pull it off I don't see Cain pulling it off either.

I would love to see a PPV every other month and a free event the months between. UFC could use the free shows to promote the up and coming and lower tier fighters. Of course this is even less likely to happen.

I don't see any way that Cain can handle Brock and I think as soon a Brock takes care of Cain and Carwin wins his next fight we will get Brock/Carwin 2.

[TimmyBoston]

Did everyone see Brock signed on to fight Cain? How do you think that fight will go? Personally if Carwin didn't pull it off I don't see Cain pulling it off either.

Carwin would beat Cain. Cain wont' beat Brock. If Carwin couldn't knock him out, the only way he'll get beat in the foreseeable future is if he gets caught the way he did against Mir.

[SRock]

I would love to see a PPV every other month and a free event the months between. UFC could use the free shows to promote the up and coming and lower tier fighters. Of course this is even less likely to happen.

I don't see any way that Cain can handle Brock and I think as soon a Brock takes care of Cain and Carwin wins his next fight we will get Brock/Carwin 2.


Carwin would beat Cain. Cain wont' beat Brock. If Carwin couldn't knock him out, the only way he'll get beat in the foreseeable future is if he gets caught the way he did against Mir.

My thoughts exactly!

[Kenno]

i wouldn't count out cain. he has good ko power and is much faster than carwin. i think he will give brock a run for his money.

do i think he can win, yes i do, will he???? ok, yes he will.

i just think cain's a better allround fighter than carwin and has power that is not too far off either.

[Sullybob]

This was nearly as funny as Petruzelli's double hammer fists. He really did look like a Silverback.

It reminded me of Captain Kirk from Star Trek :lol: :lol:


I think the August card will be good and if it is I don't mind the wait. Personally I'd rather have a PPV every other month if it meant stacked cards. I know it will never happen that way though.

Did everyone see Brock signed on to fight Cain? How do you think that fight will go? Personally if Carwin didn't pull it off I don't see Cain pulling it off either.

I don't see Cain beating Brock either.


I would love to see a PPV every other month and a free event the months between. UFC could use the free shows to promote the up and coming and lower tier fighters. Of course this is even less likely to happen.

I don't see any way that Cain can handle Brock and I think as soon a Brock takes care of Cain and Carwin wins his next fight we will get Brock/Carwin 2.

I think that is whats going to happen as well.

Hopefully this time Carwin doesn't blow his arms out in the first round. I would imagine that he has watched that fight about a 100 times and analyzed every thing that he did right and wrong.

[SmoovD]

Any thoughts on the Couture/Toney fight? Toney is absolutely hilarious. He makes Sonnen's trash-talk look like very weak sauce. Can Toney make his likely limited chances to strike count against Couture? Or will Couture smother him, get the fight to the ground then submit Toney?

I think that Couture will be able to get Toney to the ground and sub him. but all it takes is a one good shot.

If Toney somehow beats Couture he has already called out Lesnar. Called him a "coward" for covering up in the Carwin fight.


Awesome.

[Barbash]

Any thoughts on the Couture/Toney fight? Toney is absolutely hilarious. He makes Sonnen's trash-talk look like very weak sauce. Can Toney make his likely limited chances to strike count against Couture? Or will Couture smother him, get the fight to the ground then submit Toney?

I think that Couture will be able to get Toney to the ground and sub him. but all it takes is a one good shot.

If Toney somehow beats Couture he has already called out Lesnar. Called him a "coward" for covering up in the Carwin fight.


Awesome.

I think Couture keeps his distance(out of Toney's reach) to start the fight until he is comfortable with Toney's movements and than goes for the take down and submits him. You are right in that it takes only one punch for Toney to KO anyone.

[TimmyBoston]

I don't see any way that Cain can handle Brock and I think as soon a Brock takes care of Cain and Carwin wins his next fight we will get Brock/Carwin 2.

That shouldn't happen. The winner of Dos Santos/Nelson should get the next shot, then provided Carwin has kept winning, he then should get a shot IMO.

I'm getting really tired of all these immediate and quick rematches, they're getting ridiculous. Machida/Shogun II is the only one that should have happened that way, IMO.

[SRock]

It reminded me of Captain Kirk from Star Trek :lol: :lol:



I don't see Cain beating Brock either.



I think that is whats going to happen as well.

Hopefully this time Carwin doesn't blow his arms out in the first round. I would imagine that he has watched that fight about a 100 times and analyzed every thing that he did right and wrong.

:yesnod: and I agree. Although now that Brock has weathered the Carwin storm I'd rather see him reign as the champ for at least 2-3 years. I hate when titles regularly change hands. I like dynasties like Matt Hughes, Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin etc. etc.


Any thoughts on the Couture/Toney fight? Toney is absolutely hilarious. He makes Sonnen's trash-talk look like very weak sauce. Can Toney make his likely limited chances to strike count against Couture? Or will Couture smother him, get the fight to the ground then submit Toney?

I think that Couture will be able to get Toney to the ground and sub him. but all it takes is a one good shot.

If Toney somehow beats Couture he has already called out Lesnar. Called him a "coward" for covering up in the Carwin fight.


Awesome.

Toney is an idiot if he honestly thinks he can beat Lesnar. That said I think he can KO Randy if he's not careful. That said I think "The Natural" wins this by way of GnP or Sub.


I think Couture keeps his distance(out of Toney's reach) to start the fight until he is comfortable with Toney's movements and than goes for the take down and submits him. You are right in that it takes only one punch for Toney to KO anyone.

Agree


That shouldn't happen. The winner of Dos Santos/Nelson should get the next shot, then provided Carwin has kept winning, he then should get a shot IMO.

I'm getting really tired of all these immediate and quick rematches, they're getting ridiculous. Machida/Shogun II is the only one that should have happened that way, IMO.

I agree with everything here. The only time an immediate or near immediate rematch should happen is if it is really, truly and genuinely close or if bad reffing seemed to happen.

[Sullybob]

:yesnod: and I agree. Although now that Brock has weathered the Carwin storm I'd rather see him reign as the champ for at least 2-3 years. I hate when titles regularly change hands. I like dynasties like Matt Hughes, Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin etc. etc.



Toney is an idiot if he honestly thinks he can beat Lesnar. That said I think he can KO Randy if he's not careful. That said I think "The Natural" wins this by way of GnP or Sub.



Agree



I agree with everything here. The only time an immediate or near immediate rematch should happen is if it is really, truly and genuinely close or if bad reffing seemed to happen.

I like to see the dynasties too. The LHW division has been a roller coaster of a ride since Chuck got beat.

[TimmyBoston]

I agree with everything here. The only time an immediate or near immediate rematch should happen is if it is really, truly and genuinely close or if bad reffing seemed to happen.

That's exactly what I was getting at. Matt Wiman and Mac Danzig are rematching. That is a very good one, it was possibly the worst stoppage in the history of the sport. Danzig deserves a rematch and is getting one.

A standard example of a bad immediate rematch is Cung Le and Scott Smith. It was beyond that, it was stupid and ridiculous. Cung Le got knocked out, immediate rematches are for people who get cheated not people who get battered unconscious. Considering StrikeForce made that happen immediately to protect one of their golden boys demonstrates how pathetic the organization truly is.

Mir and Big Nog II is a rematch I'd rather not see at this time. IMO, Mir should fight the loser of Dos Santos/Nelson. If that would be too far out, give him Mike Russow in the meantime, it would most likely be a one sided fight and allow Frank to quickly move back up, but after the heart and guts he showed against Todd Duffee, Russow deserves some kind of opportunity.
Big Nog on the other hand needs to fight a prospect, not a top guy like Mir. Nog's on his way down, IMO. If he would win big there then he moves back up the the top tier. Maybe Jon Madsen or Brendan Schaub.

[Barbash]

That's exactly what I was getting at. Matt Wiman and Mac Danzig are rematching. That is a very good one, it was possibly the worst stoppage in the history of the sport. Danzig deserves a rematch and is getting one.

A standard example of a bad immediate rematch is Cung Le and Scott Smith. It was beyond that, it was stupid and ridiculous. Cung Le got knocked out, immediate rematches are for people who get cheated not people who get battered unconscious. Considering StrikeForce made that happen immediately to protect one of their golden boys demonstrates how pathetic the organization truly is.

Mir and Big Nog II is a rematch I'd rather not see at this time. IMO, Mir should fight the loser of Dos Santos/Nelson. If that would be too far out, give him Mike Russow in the meantime, it would most likely be a one sided fight and allow Frank to quickly move back up, but after the heart and guts he showed against Todd Duffee, Russow deserves some kind of opportunity.
Big Nog on the other hand needs to fight a prospect, not a top guy like Mir. Nog's on his way down, IMO. If he would win big there then he moves back up the the top tier. Maybe Jon Madsen or Brendan Schaub.

Agree with everything. I hope Danzig can take advantage of this oppurtunity since he was screwed the last time and also I have to give a big thumbs up to Wiman for taking this fight again so quickly after finding out what happened.

I could care less about Lee/Smith and could care even less at this point about Strikeforce. I think compition is great for UFC, but I think a water downed version of UFC is bad for the sport and that is exactly what StrikeForce is.

I like the Mir/Big Nog rematch, but also agree that I would prefer to put off this rematch and let Mir fight a top contender first and like your idea of him facing the winner of Nelson/Dos Santos. The winner of that match would be assured of a title shot. UFC could set up Big Nog to fight a younger fighter first and if he wins that give him the loser of that fight.

[SRock]

I could care less about Lee/Smith and could care even less at this point about Strikeforce. I think competition is great for UFC, but I think a water downed version of UFC is bad for the sport and that is exactly what StrikeForce is.

Amen

[TimmyBoston]

I like the Mir/Big Nog rematch, but also agree that I would prefer to put off this rematch and let Mir fight a top contender first and like your idea of him facing the winner of Nelson/Dos Santos. The winner of that match would be assured of a title shot. UFC could set up Big Nog to fight a younger fighter first and if he wins that give him the loser of that fight.

You misread what I said (or maybe I mis-typed, who knows), I think Mir should get the loser of Dos Santos/Nelson, not the winner. The winner should get the next crack at title after Cain. Now if the loser can win against Mir, he would still be in the hunt for a shot, but if Mir wins he's in the hunt for a shot.

[Barbash]

You misread what I said (or maybe I mis-typed, who knows), I think Mir should get the loser of Dos Santos/Nelson, not the winner. The winner should get the next crack at title after Cain. Now if the loser can win against Mir, he would still be in the hunt for a shot, but if Mir wins he's in the hunt for a shot.

I just misread it.

[SRock]

You misread what I said (or maybe I mis-typed, who knows), I think Mir should get the loser of Dos Santos/Nelson, not the winner. The winner should get the next crack at title after Cain. Now if the loser can win against Mir, he would still be in the hunt for a shot, but if Mir wins he's in the hunt for a shot.


I just misread it.

Fuggetaboutit! :lol:

[SmoovD]

Any interest in the UFC on Versus fights this weekend? I am looking forward to watching Jones. Like his open style of grappling and his absolutely wicked elbows.

[TimmyBoston]

Any interest in the UFC on Versus fights this weekend? I am looking forward to watching Jones. Like his open style of grappling and his absolutely wicked elbows.

Absolutely, I'll be watching it. If the Janitor upsets Jones, it will really shake some things up in the Light Heavy Div. The UFC is expecting big things from Jon Jones. I'm very curious if Matyushenko will be able to take him down. I've never seen Jones fight over his back.

[Barbash]

Any interest in the UFC on Versus fights this weekend? I am looking forward to watching Jones. Like his open style of grappling and his absolutely wicked elbows.

I'll be watching Jones. UFC is putting a lot of stock in this guy being their next star.

I would be watching this even without Jones because I am going through withdrawls right now with no payper view for the past few weeks.

[SmoovD]

Absolutely, I'll be watching it. If the Janitor upsets Jones, it will really shake some things up in the Light Heavy Div. The UFC is expecting big things from Jon Jones. I'm very curious if Matyushenko will be able to take him down. I've never seen Jones fight over his back.

I would be shocked if Matyushenko is able to take Jones down, let alone keep him him there. Jones is going to be too quick and too technically sound on his feet, IMO. Jones' clinch was too much for Hamel and Vera. Jones has some very quick hips. I look for Jones to keep his momentum moving forward in this fight.

And, yes, it has been far too long in between fights.

[TimmyBoston]

It's very interesting to see the articles written about Jones. I wasn't a fan of Jones unitl I saw him fight Mark Hamill. (Who I was a long time fan of, and I still think very highly of.) Jones handled himself so well in defeat and fought so well, he earned me as a huge fan. But he is already being compared to Lebron James in terms of natural ability. He has one brother in the NFL and another as as a star in the NCAA, he is undoubtedly talented, but he really beat everyone in his division? I'm not trying to doubt him, but he's only 23. He could be the next GSP or Anderson Silva. It's really amazing to watch someone with his potential. I hope he lives up to it. My (figurative) money's on him tomorrow. :thumbup1:

[TimmyBoston]

It's very interesting to see the articles written about Jones. I wasn't a fan of Jones until I saw him fight Mark Hamill. (Who I was a long time fan of, and I still think very highly of.) Jones handled himself so well in defeat and fought so well, he earned me as a huge fan. But he is already being compared to Lebron James in terms of natural ability. He has one brother in the NFL and another as as a star in the NCAA, he is undoubtedly talented, but he really beat everyone in his division? I'm not trying to doubt him, but he's only 23. He could be the next GSP or Anderson Silva. It's really amazing to watch someone with his potential. I hope he lives up to it. My (figurative) money's on him tomorrow. :thumbup1:

[SRock]

Any interest in the UFC on Versus fights this weekend? I am looking forward to watching Jones. Like his open style of grappling and his absolutely wicked elbows.

I am but I its not airing here. :mad:

[TimmyBoston]

Rob, you really didn't miss too much. It wasn't a bad card, but other than Gomi, I wasn't surprised.

[SRock]

I am but I its not airing here. :mad:


Rob, you really didn't miss too much. It wasn't a bad card, but other than Gomi, I wasn't surprised.

Turns out I was wrong. They did air it here, but either way I missed it.

As far as the outcomes, one of my troops told me the same thing.

[SmoovD]

I wish the Jones/Matyushenko fight hadn't been stopped so quickly but I understand why it was. Vlad is a veteran and may have been able to get into a different position. Other than Gomi KO'ing Griffin that was about it.

[Barbash]

I wish the Jones/Matyushenko fight hadn't been stopped so quickly but I understand why it was. Vlad is a veteran and may have been able to get into a different position. Other than Gomi KO'ing Griffin that was about it.

Fights weren't bad at all, but like has been said all the outcomes were of no surprise except for Griffin getting KO'ed.
Jones looked good and I think the ref did the right thing in stopping the fight. Vlad is a vet, but those elbows were coming hard at his unprotected face. I bet Brandon Vera's face started hurting again after seeing those elbows.

[TimmyBoston]

I'm bummed, I think I'm going to miss the pay per view this week. It's a great one too.

Predictions?

UFC 117

Main card

* Middleweight Championship bout: Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen
* Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves
* Lightweight bout: Clay Guida vs. Rafael dos Anjos
* Welterweight bout: Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida
* Heavyweight bout: Roy Nelson vs. Junior dos Santos

Preliminary card

* Welterweight bout: Dustin Hazelett vs. Rick Story
* Light Heavyweight bout: Phil Davis vs. Rodney Wallace
* Light Heavyweight bout: Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown
* Welterweight bout: Johny Hendricks vs. Charlie Brenneman
* Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Christian Morecraft
* Welterweight bout: Ben Saunders vs. Dennis Hallman


I know I'm going out on a limb with some of these. I think if Chael Sonnen can get it to the judge's cards he will win. Fitch is going to grind out Alves just like GSP did. Guida's too much for Dos Anejos. I've got to pick Matt Hughes, I always have to bet US wrestling against Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. :wink: And I think Dos Santos has a lot of hype and Nelson is always better than people say. I'm going to go with him on this one.

*I didn't realize this until after I posted my predictions, I picked all the American fighters on the main card. :thumbup:

[SRock]

My predictions:

UFC 117

Main card

* Middleweight Championship bout: Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen (though I'd rather see Chael win and I'll be rooting for him!)
* Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves
* Lightweight bout: Clay Guida vs. Rafael dos Anjos
* Welterweight bout: Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida
* Heavyweight bout: Roy Nelson vs. Junior dos Santos

Preliminary card

* Welterweight bout: Dustin Hazelett vs. Rick Story
* Light Heavyweight bout: Phil Davis vs. Rodney Wallace
* Light Heavyweight bout: Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown
* Welterweight bout: Johny Hendricks vs. Charlie Brenneman
* Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Christian Morecraft (This could be a very interesting fight)
* Welterweight bout: Ben Saunders vs. Dennis Hallman


Aside from going with my gut and taking Silva over Sonnen Timmy and I were very similar in our pics. I'll be having a BBQ for this one! :thumbup1::thumbup1:

Oh and how much longer do you think Hallman will stick around before they give Matt Hughes the chance to get his revenge?

[Sullybob]

I'm bummed, I think I'm going to miss the pay per view this week. It's a great one too.

Predictions?

UFC 117

Main card

* Middleweight Championship bout: Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen
* Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves
* Lightweight bout: Clay Guida vs. Rafael dos Anjos
* Welterweight bout: Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida
* Heavyweight bout: Roy Nelson vs. Junior dos Santos

Preliminary card

* Welterweight bout: Dustin Hazelett vs. Rick Story
* Light Heavyweight bout: Phil Davis vs. Rodney Wallace
* Light Heavyweight bout: Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown
* Welterweight bout: Johny Hendricks vs. Charlie Brenneman
* Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Christian Morecraft
* Welterweight bout: Ben Saunders vs. Dennis Hallman


I know I'm going out on a limb with some of these. I think if Chael Sonnen can get it to the judge's cards he will win. Fitch is going to grind out Alves just like GSP did. Guida's too much for Dos Anejos. I've got to pick Matt Hughes, I always have to bet US wrestling against Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. :wink: And I think Dos Santos has a lot of hype and Nelson is always better than people say. I'm going to go with him on this one.

*I didn't realize this until after I posted my predictions, I picked all the American fighters on the main card. :thumbup:

Wow Tim, bold predictions.
After listening to Chael run his mouth about Anderson, the Nog's and everyone else I'm hoping that he gets beat down in the first round. I'm just getting tired of all the smack talking.

Jon Fitch will grind out Thiago.
Clay Guida for sure.
Matt Hughes takes Ricardo.
I think Junior takes Roy.

[Barbash]

Wow Tim, bold predictions.
After listening to Chael run his mouth about Anderson, the Nog's and everyone else I'm hoping that he gets beat down in the first round. I'm just getting tired of all the smack talking.

Jon Fitch will grind out Thiago.
Clay Guida for sure.
Matt Hughes takes Ricardo.
I think Junior takes Roy.

I think Chael is going to get beat up bad by Anderson. Anderson needs to have a good showing to keep White off his butt and after Chael saying he is going to retire Anderson I would see this being a 1 or 2 round easy TKO for Anderson.

The Fitch/Thiago should be a good fight and could be fight of the night.

[The Nid Hog]

I'm going to echo Rob's picks on everything except the Hughes fight. I think that Almeida is going to surprise him.

I'm also excited to see that the cable service at my apartment is offering the fight for free. Woo hoo!

[SRock]

I'm going to echo Rob's picks on everything except the Hughes fight. I think that Almeida is going to surprise him.

I'm also excited to see that the cable service at my apartment is offering the fight for free. Woo hoo!

I went back and forth with this one. Honestly I think it could go either way, though I'd rather see Matt Hughes win.

That and I'd like to see Hughes avenge his two losses to Dennis Hallman earlier in his career. I still think that is the UFC's plan. His final fight before actual/full retirement will against Hallman. I mean why else would they have signed the guy?

Oh and glad to hear you'll be getting the fights for free! :thumbup1:

[SmoovD]

My predictions:

UFC 117

Main card

* Middleweight Championship bout: Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen
* Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves
* Lightweight bout: Clay Guida vs. Rafael dos Anjos
* Welterweight bout: Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida
* Heavyweight bout: Roy Nelson vs. Junior dos Santos

Preliminary card

* Welterweight bout: Dustin Hazelett vs. Rick Story
* Light Heavyweight bout: Phil Davis vs. Rodney Wallace
* Light Heavyweight bout: Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown
* Welterweight bout: Johny Hendricks vs. Charlie Brenneman
* Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Christian Morecraft
* Welterweight bout: Ben Saunders vs. Dennis Hallman

Picked against Sonnen, Hughes and Nelson but I will be pulling for all three. I just hope the card turns out to be a good one.

[thunderball]

Wow...what an event that was. :thumbup1:

[SRock]

So, how'd I do:

UFC 117

Main card

* Middleweight Championship bout: Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen (though I'd rather see Chael win and I'll be rooting for him!) Unfortunately I called this one correctly. I wanted Sonnen to win something fierce! He dominated Silva.
* Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves Correct
* Lightweight bout: Clay Guida vs. Rafael dos Anjos Correct
* Welterweight bout: Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida Correct and Hughes looked awesome!
* Heavyweight bout: Roy Nelson vs. Junior dos Santos Wrong but Nelson can take some crazy abuse!

Preliminary card

* Welterweight bout: Dustin Hazelett vs. Rick Story Wrong
* Light Heavyweight bout: Phil Davis vs. Rodney Wallace Correct
* Light Heavyweight bout: Tim Boetsch vs. Todd Brown Correct
* Welterweight bout: Johny Hendricks vs. Charlie Brenneman Correct
* Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Christian Morecraft (This could be a very interesting fight) Correct and an Awesome KO
* Welterweight bout: Ben Saunders vs. Dennis Hallman Wrong

I can live with 8-3 on my picks, though to be honest I really thought Big Country was going to pull off the win against Jr.

Just some observations:

-Matt Hughes looked awesome!

-Struve got a great comeback KO!

-The Pitbull looked worn out before the fight started.

-Sonnen destroyed Silva right up until... Oh :censored:!

-Imagine what Big Country might be capable of if he was fighting at his natural weight.

Your thoughts on this card?

[mikeon]

Your thoughts on this card?

It really was one of the most entertaining events I've watched in a long time. That main event was :w00t: and as a Hughes fan, I couldn't ask for a better finish - I used to use that move back in the school yard!

[SRock]

It really was one of the most entertaining events I've watched in a long time. That main event was :w00t: and as a Hughes fan, I couldn't ask for a better finish - I used to use that move back in the school yard!

+1 :thumbup1:

[Hank21]

Stallone looks bigger than Brock Lesnar.

Must be the aftershave..

[mikeon]

Hector Lombard is a beast! No wonder Filho wanted out of their match

[TimmyBoston]

Any early predictions for UFC 118?

[Up And Down]

Any early predictions for UFC 118?

Penn gets revenge against Edgar and Couture quickly takes Toney into the unknown and submits him on the ground.

[SRock]

Penn gets revenge against Edgar and Couture quickly takes Toney into the unknown and submits him on the ground.

I def think that Toney is going to lose. I think Penn/Edgar could go either way, but I suspect that you are correct and BJ will get his title back.

[mikeon]

Any of you watch that War on the Mainland card? It's hard to watch Pulver these days - it's no ones place to tell him to retire but I honestly wish he would.

[TimmyBoston]

My money is definitely on Penn. I'm a big Frankie Edgar fan, but I don't think he has what it takes to beat BJ.

I'm nervous about Toney/Couture. It is a very dangerous fight for MMA. As soon as Randy gets a takedown, I'll relax.

[The Nid Hog]

Any of you watch that War on the Mainland card? It's hard to watch Pulver these days - it's no ones place to tell him to retire but I honestly wish he would.

I didn't watch it, but I read the results. I wish that the guy could hang it up too, but he probably has bills to pay. It won't be long before he's wrestling bears.

I haven't given much thought to the rest of the card yet, but I don't think that Penn v. Edgar is going to be at all close. I think that Penn has a significant skill advantage over Edgar on his feet or on the ground. Unfortunately for Penn, he will probably never be as disciplined a fighter as GSP or, a better example, Randy. Relying on being "the Prodigy" has kept him from achieving everything that he has probably been capable of doing. But I'm sure that his last effort against Edgar has rankled him since the decision was announced and he's going to come into this one ready to go. Edgar is going to get a beating.

As far as Randy v. Toney goes, barring something very strange, Randy gets the W. Toney is just not the guy to show that boxers can beat MMA practitioners at their own game.

[SRock]

My money is definitely on Penn. I'm a big Frankie Edgar fan, but I don't think he has what it takes to beat BJ.

I'm nervous about Toney/Couture. It is a very dangerous fight for MMA. As soon as Randy gets a takedown, I'll relax.

I disagree completely. I don't think this fight will have any lasting ramifications for either sport. If Toney wins by KO they'll just say he did what boxers do and had the benefit of much smaller gloves. If Randy wins by anything other than a KO they'll just say he was doing what a MMA practitioner does. I think this fight is much ado about nothing.

That said I hope Randy destroys Toney!

[mikeon]

I can't freakin wait for the WEC card tomorrow night. I was going to do some light travelling for work today but I'm definitely holding that off until Thursday. Dominick Cruz has looked absolutely brilliant in his last few fights and at 5 rounds, Benavidez can make this a closer fight this time around.

[rutts]

wow im glad i saw this thread i really didnt think there would be anything like this on B&B

[rutts]

o and there is no post about MMA being legalized in ontario?, figured my fellow canadians might be a just a little interested in this devolpment, as it only happened on saturday!

[SRock]

wow im glad i saw this thread i really didnt think there would be anything like this on B&B

Are you kidding, we love MMA around here. More than one of the staff has fought in various forms of MMA.

Glad you found the thread.

Oh and WEC, they are airing it in the middle of the night here :cursing:. I'm hoping they will re-air it at a reasonable time.

[The Nid Hog]

Oh and WEC, they are airing it in the middle of the night here :cursing:. I'm hoping they will re-air it at a reasonable time.

Do you get any of the Japanese channels? Check out the Wowwow sport channel if you do. They've been carrying the UFC events since I've been here, usually at a reasonable time the following day.

[SRock]

Do you get any of the Japanese channels? Check out the Wowwow sport channel if you do. They've been carrying the UFC events since I've been here, usually at a reasonable time the following day.

:nonod: Not really. I get 3-4 channels over the open air but they are static riddled and irritating to watch.

Thankfully, AFN normally re-airs the good stuff at least once.

[Kenno]

I disagree completely. I don't think this fight will have any lasting ramifications for either sport. If Toney wins by KO they'll just say he did what boxers do and had the benefit of much smaller gloves. If Randy wins by anything other than a KO they'll just say he was doing what a MMA practitioner does. I think this fight is much ado about nothing.

That said I hope Randy destroys Toney!

I tend to agree, there's been plenty of ex boxers who have won and lost in mma and it didn't change a thing. The only time it will ever matter is if we get guys in their prime (not both 45) fight on regular occasions.

I want Randy to win too, love his heart. Never been a Toney fan.

[SmoovD]

I tend to agree, there's been plenty of ex boxers who have won and lost in mma and it didn't change a thing. The only time it will ever matter is if we get guys in their prime (not both 45) fight on regular occasions.

I want Randy to win too, love his heart. Never been a Toney fan.

+1. Even an older Randy is too good a grappler for Toney. The window of opportunity for Toney to win is going to be very brief. Probably 15-30 seconds at the beginning of each round of the fight. I would guess that he has no more than one such window.

[rutts]

i agree randy definitly could and most likely will win this fight, its just that his chin is pretty suspect and has been rocked by guys like lesnar and vera who are either terrible strikers or only 205 pounds. the first exchange i will no doubt be on the edge of my seat lol

[SRock]

I tend to agree, there's been plenty of ex boxers who have won and lost in mma and it didn't change a thing. The only time it will ever matter is if we get guys in their prime (not both 45) fight on regular occasions.

I want Randy to win too, love his heart. Never been a Toney fan.

Exactly! And even in a perfect #1 Boxer vs. #1 MMA Fighter scenario where they meet several times that still wouldn't answer which is the better form it would simply answer the same old questions...

Which of the two combatants is the better fighter.

About the only way to ever answer this sort of thing would be to have hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of Boxer vs. MMA practitioner fights and even then it would be like having a Soccer player vs. Basketball player at a game of BBall. Sure the Soccer player is probably going to run all over the BBall player but in the end the BBall player will score points in the hoop.

You just cant truly/totally compare apples and oranges.


+1. Even an older Randy is too good a grappler for Toney. The window of opportunity for Toney to win is going to be very brief. Probably 15-30 seconds at the beginning of each round of the fight. I would guess that he has no more than one such window.

I'd agree with this. His greatest attribute is without doubt his heavy hands and now the UFC is putting little 4oz gloves on them. If he connects Randy should go to sleep.


i agree randy definitly could and most likely will win this fight, its just that his chin is pretty suspect and has been rocked by guys like lesnar and vera who are either terrible strikers or only 205 pounds. the first exchange i will no doubt be on the edge of my seat lol

:yesnod:

[rutts]

anyone from canada have any idea what channel the strikeforce card this weekend might be one?

[Hank21]

Do you think any of those guys use steroids or hgh?

[rutts]

Do you think any of those guys use steroids or hgh?

if your asking about the fighters in mma, NO! lol
They simply cant, strict testing before and after the fights, but some still try and usually always get caught...:001_huh:

[Hank21]

if your asking about the fighters in mma, NO! lol
They simply cant, strict testing before and after the fights, but some still try and usually always get caught...:001_huh:

Lesner?

[SmoovD]

Everyone's favorite promotion has was looks to be a fairly entertaining card tonight: Strikeforce Houston. Any interest?

[mikeon]

I'm interested in seeing King Mo's entrance. The fights look fun but are fairly predictable IMO (though I'll still watch the card and I'm sure we'll get a few good matches out of it).

Sengoku is also coming up soon. The card is not that good but good, competetive Japanese cards are becoming rare these days, so I'll have to catch them as they come.

[SRock]

Lesner?

Everyone knows that Lesnar has used steroids. However, looking at his build/definition in his WWE days compared to now I believe he is off of them for fighting.

It's not worth the risk. Look what happened to Josh Barnett.

That said, Shane Carwin is now under investigation because his initials popped up on shipping documents for a pharmaceutical company that was supply horse steroids to athletes.

It happens, it will always happen.

[SmoovD]

Strikefarce in full effect this evening. The title fights were jokes. The refs were bad as well. Just bad.

Probably worse for Coker and Co. They can't be to long for this world.

[The Nid Hog]

Strikefarce in full effect this evening. The title fights were jokes. The refs were bad as well. Just bad.

Probably worse for Coker and Co. They can't be to long for this world.

Not my impression at all. I thought that Kennedy v. Jacare was a good fight. They both could have been a little more active, but they got it done. Feijao v. Lawal wasn't bad either. Lawal is a great grappler and has tremendous athleticism, but he needs to round out his game. I tuned in after the rest of the card was over, but there was nothing wrong with the last two bouts.

[SRock]

Strikefarce in full effect this evening. The title fights were jokes. The refs were bad as well. Just bad.

Probably worse for Coker and Co. They can't be to long for this world.

I didn't get to see this one, but Sherdog was a little more lenient on Cokers Clowns than you were.

What bad reffing did you see?

EDIT: Turns out it is airing here at 4pm today. I guess I'll see for myself in 1 hr.

[SRock]

Not my impression at all. I thought that Kennedy v. Jacare was a good fight. They both could have been a little more active, but they got it done. Feijao v. Lawal wasn't bad either. Lawal is a great grappler and has tremendous athleticism, but he needs to round out his game. I tuned in after the rest of the card was over, but there was nothing wrong with the last two bouts.

That's good to hear. I'll be watching in about 15 minutes.

EDIT: Its 4pm tomorrow. I guess I'll watch then.

[Kenno]

+1. Even an older Randy is too good a grappler for Toney. The window of opportunity for Toney to win is going to be very brief. Probably 15-30 seconds at the beginning of each round of the fight. I would guess that he has no more than one such window.

I tend to agree, however i don't count Toney out. He was a pretty good boxer and whether he is going to be fit and trained hard i don't know? i used to be an ex boxer and love the sport but i never been a follower of Toney but man i like Randy, his spirit and courage is awesome. one of the few times i'll go for an mma fighter over a boxer.

[SRock]

I tend to agree, however i don't count Toney out. He was a pretty good boxer and whether he is going to be fit and trained hard i don't know? i used to be an ex boxer and love the sport but i never been a follower of Toney but man i like Randy, his spirit and courage is awesome. one of the few times i'll go for an mma fighter over a boxer.

:thumbup1:

[Kenno]

Exactly! And even in a perfect #1 Boxer vs. #1 MMA Fighter scenario where they meet several times that still wouldn't answer which is the better form it would simply answer the same old questions...

Which of the two combatants is the better fighter.

About the only way to ever answer this sort of thing would be to have hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of Boxer vs. MMA practitioner fights and even then it would be like having a Soccer player vs. Basketball player at a game of BBall. Sure the Soccer player is probably going to run all over the BBall player but in the end the BBall player will score points in the hoop.

You just cant truly/totally compare apples and oranges.



I'd agree with this. His greatest attribute is without doubt his heavy hands and now the UFC is putting little 4oz gloves on them. If he connects Randy should go to sleep.



:yesnod:

+1 but you know me Robbo, i'm always in the boxers corner (well mostly, dam you Junior D S and Randy).

A boxer tends to lose his speed/reflexes and timing as he gets older so this is where Randy can have an upper hand sort of. I mean when two men get older it's probably easier to grab a hold of someone and grapple/wrestle with em than it is to hit a moving target like Randy's head. Randy just better try and not get hit too often, umm or maybe once.

[SRock]

+1 but you know me Robbo, i'm always in the boxers corner (well mostly, dam you Junior D S and Randy).

A boxer tends to lose his speed/reflexes and timing as he gets older so this is where Randy can have an upper hand sort of. I mean when two men get older it's probably easier to grab a hold of someone and grapple/wrestle with em than it is to hit a moving target like Randy's head. Randy just better try and not get hit too often, umm or maybe once.

I agree. The opening seconds of each round are going to be Toney's best opportunity to score the KO and get the win.

[Kenno]

:thumbup1:

what i also like about Randy is when he would walk out from the dressing room along the way he would interact with the crowd, hi fives, winks, smiles, nods and was always happy to see people cheer for him. when he does retire i think he will miss the fans more than any mma fighter and the fans him.

Randy is always humble, i never seen him with these fake game faces you see on a lot of fighters, fighters that only acknowledge the fans after they win. don't get me wrong i know they gotta focus and get in the zone and stuff but this is where Randy is on another level when it comes to the fans. Almost seems like he comes in to have fun where others look like they come to fight.

[SRock]

what i also like about Randy is when he would walk out from the dressing room along the way he would interact with the crowd, hi fives, winks, smiles, nods and was always happy to see people cheer for him. when he does retire i think he will miss the fans more than any mma fighter and the fans him.

Randy is always humble, i never seen him with these fake game faces you see on a lot of fighters, fighters that only acknowledge the fans after they win. don't get me wrong i know they gotta focus and get in the zone and stuff but this is where Randy is on another level when it comes to the fans. Almost seems like he comes in to have fun where others look like they come to fight.

:yesnod: He is one of my favorites.

[SmoovD]

The Lashley and the Noons fights had dubious calls. Lashley was in full mount and the fight got stood up. Granted, he was doing jack but still, he was in full mount. Speaks to Lashley's game just as much as the call to stand up. The Noons fight featured a KTFO after the bell. Gurgel, Master of the Gameplan, was tagged after the bell. Completely out. He never got his head back together was was rocked again straightway in the second. While down, he took a glancing knee to the gourd.

Mo is a great grappler but his not a very accomplished in MMA. SF hype-machine in action. He would get a mudhole stomped in him should he step into the cage against quality opponents. Mousasi fight aside (still don't know what happened there). The Jacare/Kennedy fight was okay besides all the hype but let's be real...that was a very poor championship fight. It might have made a nice undercard but not a championship bout.

When you factor in the terrible commentating...brutal as always. I loved the "he used the floor to stand up" line. Brilliant.

Strikeforce took a big hit last night. Two of their poster boys got taken out was seemingly lesser competition. Certainly less publicized. Coker can't feel too great about last night's action.

[rutts]

Strikeforce took a big hit last night. Two of their poster boys got taken out was seemingly lesser competition. Certainly less publicized. Coker can't feel too great about last night's action

Yea especially since fedor lost to werdum. Strikforce might not be around much longer if all there "big" names keep losing or leaving, which will hopefully mean some new talent in the ufc lol

[SRock]

Anyone care to post their predictions for this weekends UFC?


The Lashley and the Noons fights had dubious calls. Lashley was in full mount and the fight got stood up. Granted, he was doing jack but still, he was in full mount. Speaks to Lashley's game just as much as the call to stand up. The Noons fight featured a KTFO after the bell. Gurgel, Master of the Gameplan, was tagged after the bell. Completely out. He never got his head back together was was rocked again straightway in the second. While down, he took a glancing knee to the gourd.

Mo is a great grappler but his not a very accomplished in MMA. SF hype-machine in action. He would get a mudhole stomped in him should he step into the cage against quality opponents. Mousasi fight aside (still don't know what happened there). The Jacare/Kennedy fight was okay besides all the hype but let's be real...that was a very poor championship fight. It might have made a nice undercard but not a championship bout.

When you factor in the terrible commentating...brutal as always. I loved the "he used the floor to stand up" line. Brilliant.

Strikeforce took a big hit last night. Two of their poster boys got taken out was seemingly lesser competition. Certainly less publicized. Coker can't feel too great about last night's action.

I agree there was some dubious refereeing going on in those two fights.

[rutts]

UFC 118 Predictions

ill go ahead and throw mine in here:

BJ Penn by 3rd round tko
Randy Couture by decision
Damien Maia by 2nd round Submission
Kenny Florian by Submission
Nate Diaz by tko

what do you guys thinks?

Rutts

[SmoovD]

Frankie Edgar vs. B.J. Penn - Hope Edgar pulls another upset, though.
Randy Couture vs. James Toney - Would love to see Randy GnP Toney until Toney quits.
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard - Should be fight of the night.
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda - Good ground match-up.
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis - Not a fan of Diaz but Nate could work a sub.
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger
Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter
Nick Osipczak vs. Greg Soto
Mike Pierce vs. Amilcar Alves

[smokelaw1]

BJ Penn by 1st round(MAYBE 2nd) "give me back my belt" mauling. I love Frankie, and would LOVE to see him win again...but I have to admit I am a little scared for him right now. A dedicated, angry BJ is a dangerous man at 155. Give him an excuse to train hard and focus, and oh boy.....

Randy Couture by submission. Perhaps a tap due to strikes on the ground? yes, I recognize that it is unlikely, but it would make me so happy! More likely TKO, ref stoppage due to strikes on the ground. I have this image of Randy in Toney's guard, not even bothering passing to side or mount and posturing up and just raining down leather on a man who has neve rhad to move his head on his back.

Damien Maia by 1st or 2nd round Submission..what a great gound battle this could be. Could see him pulling some sub that most of us never see or hear about unless we train with high level blackbelts (I do not..my grrappling game is VERY underdeveloped as compared with my still not great striking)

Kenny Florian by TKO...referee/DR stoppage due to bloody, bloody mess....I'm going with elbows followed by more elbows.

Nate Diaz by sub....I think. I'm finding it harder and harder to care about the Diaz clan.
Edit: I'm changing this Marcus by hand grenade. I think he's going to catch Nate with a hard shot and then take advantage of the slwoed pace to put some real leather on him. TKO Davis.

[TimmyBoston]

Frankie Edgar vs. B.J. Penn
Randy Couture vs. James Toney
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger
Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter

I really like Frankie Edgar, but he won't stop Penn twice.
I'm nervous about Randy, but I gotta back MMA.
Maynard isn't up to dealing with Florian, he's just too good.
I'm a bigger Maia fan after the Silva fan, best BJJ I've ever seen.
I love Marcus Davis, but Diaz's game is too good. I still hate him though.
Lauzon's going to pull this off.

[Sullybob]

Frankie Edgar vs. B.J. Penn
Randy Couture vs. James Toney
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger
Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter


I think Penn comes in shape and motivated and a motivated and in shape Penn is going to be too much for Edgar to handle.

Randy takes Toney, or Randy gets knocked out. I'm going with Randy taking him down and pounding him out, or at least getting a stoppage.

Kenny is going to overwhelm Gray.

The Davis Diaz fight is interesting. I think that if Marcus can start strong he can overwhelm Diaz before he gets going.

I'm pulling for Joe and Dan.

[The Nid Hog]

I just found out that I have to work tomorrow and I don't think that I'll make it back in time for the fights. That's twice as irritating because (a) I get it free on cable and (b) I can't record it. I was really looking forward to kicking back and watching this. Rats!

[SRock]

Frankie Edgar vs. B.J. Penn - Hope Edgar pulls another upset, though.
Randy Couture vs. James Toney - Would love to see Randy GnP Toney until Toney quits.
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard - Should be fight of the night.
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda - Good ground match-up.
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis - Not a fan of Diaz but Nate could work a sub.
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger
Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter
Nick Osipczak vs. Greg Soto
Mike Pierce vs. Amilcar Alves

Pretty solid pics for the most part.


BJ Penn by 1st round(MAYBE 2nd) "give me back my belt" mauling.

Randy Couture by submission. Perhaps a tap due to strikes on the ground? yes, I recognize that it is unlikely, but it would make me so happy! More likely TKO, ref stoppage due to strikes on the ground. I have this image of Randy in Toney's guard, not even bothering passing to side or mount and posturing up and just raining down leather on a man who has never had to move his head on his back.

I agree with your views on BJ (as much as I'd rather see Frankie keep the belt) and Randy.


I just found out that I have to work tomorrow and I don't think that I'll make it back in time for the fights. That's twice as irritating because (a) I get it free on cable and (b) I can't record it. I was really looking forward to kicking back and watching this. Rats!

Don't worry, between here and Sherdog we'll have ya covered! :thumbup1:


Frankie Edgar vs. B.J. Penn
Randy Couture vs. James Toney
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger
Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter


I think Penn comes in shape and motivated and a motivated and in shape Penn is going to be too much for Edgar to handle.

Randy takes Toney, or Randy gets knocked out. I'm going with Randy taking him down and pounding him out, or at least getting a stoppage.

Kenny is going to overwhelm Gray.

The Davis Diaz fight is interesting. I think that if Marcus can start strong he can overwhelm Diaz before he gets going.

I'm pulling for Joe and Dan.

I think Marcus's only real chance is exactly what you said. Early and overwhelming. As much as I hate the Diaz brothers I think Nate's game is more consistent than the Irish Hand Grenades.

OK, my picks:

Randy Couture vs. James Toney - I'd love to see the irony of Randy KTFO Toney (I know not likely at all) or a great GnP display for a stoppage. Toney quitting or getting KO'd would be fantastic!
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard I'm picking Gray and I'd rather see him win this one (and this truly is a fight that could go either way) but I think Ken-Flo may have edge.
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis - I'd much rather Marcus win, but I don't see it.
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger - I think this could go either way but I suspect Joe will pull it off.

I could care less about the fights below:

Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter
Nick Osipczak vs. Greg Soto
Mike Pierce vs. Amilcar Alves

[SRock]

Well... How'd I do? 8-2 for this PPV. One I called wrong I'm very happy for and one I called correct I really wish would have gone the other way.

B.J. Penn vs. Frankie Edgar I couldn't be happier that I called this one wrong!!!!
Randy Couture vs. James Toney Who's James Toney?
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard The Bully 11-0!
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis - I'd much rather Marcus win, but I don't see it. (Unfortunately I called this one.)
Joe Lauzon vs. Gabe Ruediger - I think this could go either way but I suspect Joe will pull it off. (Wow, not only did he pull it off but he made it look easy.)
Andre Winner vs. Nik Lentz
Dan Miller vs. John Salter
Nick Osipczak vs. Greg Soto
Mike Pierce vs. Amilcar Alves

Random thoughts:

- BJ looked terrible
- Frankie looked fantastic
- Randy totally Pwned Tubby Toney
- Ken-Flo just didn't know what to do with Maynard
- Maynard vs. Edgar 2 could be very interesting
- Maia vs. Miranda :sleep:
- Nate further proves that the Diaz brothers are A-holes

[TimmyBoston]

Frankie looked amazing. Once again he came in with a great game plan and he executed it perfectly. I was really impressed. Well done, Frankie.

Joe Lauzon looked awesome.

Toney didn't even attempt a punch. Bah!

Maynard fought the best fight I've seen him fight.

Maia bored me to tears.

Poor Marcus Davis, I think it might be time for him to retire. I don't think he face can take any more damage. If he doesn't retire, I'd recommend dropping some muscle and going down to 155.

Dan Miller deserves submission of the night.

And Randy, Hell yeah! :thumbup1:

[SRock]

Poor Marcus Davis, I think it might be time for him to retire. I don't think he face can take any more damage. If he doesn't retire, I'd recommend dropping some muscle and going down to 155.

No doubt his face just has way too much scar tissue in it. From what I understand he's already had 2-3 reconstructive surgeries to remove it. At this point I think all of his fights win or lose will look like he got beat up bad.

[The Nid Hog]

I wouldn't say that BJ fought a gutless fight tonight, but maybe heartless. He didn't seem to have any intensity at all. Worse yet, it was like he never even saw the fight in Abu Dhabi. He seemed like he expected to step into the ring and have Edgar hand him back the belt, and maybe let him pound his face for a while. I think that BJ needs to find a coach who can push him and teach him to adapt to his challengers. He needs to get out of his comfort zone or he's going to be reduced to fighting guys who he already knows that he can beat. I think that it took a lot of guts to jump into the ring with guys like Machida. It takes something else to look at your own limitations and figure out how to work beyond them.

Maynard fought like a guy who has been wrestling since he was wearing pull up pants. I think that his fight with Edgar is going to be good. Poor Kenny. I like the guy, but he just doesn't seem like he has what it takes to get to the very top. He needs a fight with somebody other than BJ next--maybe a rematch with Sanchez?

Maia still has a way to go, but he put on a beautiful demonstration of BJJ. He was clearly so intent on getting the submission that he compromised his own game, but I like watching him anyway.

I like Marcus Davis too, but I bet his forehead starts to bleed when he sneezes. Didn't he already have some kind of corpse tissue implant too? I agree that it's time to hang up the gloves. I've seen a lot of old pugs with those collapsed faces and he should think about getting out before he looks like that.

Too bad there aren't MMA tag team fights. The Diaz brothers would be a great draw.

[Kenno]

Well done randy and well done frankie, didn't think frankie was gonna win but well done.

toney you talked crap and were crap. even in training he looked like some punch drunk beginer and a man who was in it to talk it up as to earn a dollar cause he lost all his millions. even trying to talk it up or should i say slurr it up he was an embarresment, even getting up off the ground on his own was a struggle, lmao.

frankie you animal well done!

[Leche]

Did anyone think Toney was going to put any serious effort into this. Based on all his trash talking of the sport, I wouldn't think so. It was gratifying to see Randy finish him easily without any response from Toney. I agree with the heartless comment about Penn, just didn't appear to be into it.

[SmoovD]

My picks were dreadful though I am quite happy about Edgar spanking Penn. Thankfully Penn was able to retrain his remarks after the fight.

The championship main event was the highlight for me. Edgar looked possessed. The look on Penn's face was priceless...he did not have an answer. Couture/Toney was about what everyone thought it be: A non-event. The Maia fight was a yawner. Super Mario was completely outclassed from the start. Poor K-Flo was stifled by Maynard. I am afraid that K-Flo's window has passed. On to the booth. Edgar/Maynard on the horizon. On the whole, it wasn't a great card but the championship fight was awesome.

The undercard did provide an thorough drubbing as Lauzon thrashed Godzilla. That was as sound a beating as I have seen in some time.

[SRock]

I wouldn't say that BJ fought a gutless fight tonight, but maybe heartless.

:yesnod: BJ looked defeated before the fight even started.


Well done randy and well done frankie, didn't think frankie was gonna win but well done.

toney you talked crap and were crap. even in training he looked like some punch drunk beginer and a man who was in it to talk it up as to earn a dollar cause he lost all his millions. even trying to talk it up or should i say slurr it up he was an embarresment, even getting up off the ground on his own was a struggle, lmao.

frankie you animal well done!

:yesnod:

Toney should be totally embarrassed. I mean no one expected him to win, but he could have at least tried to do something.


Did anyone think Toney was going to put any serious effort into this. Based on all his trash talking of the sport, I wouldn't think so. It was gratifying to see Randy finish him easily without any response from Toney. I agree with the heartless comment about Penn, just didn't appear to be into it.

As much trash talk as he did you'd think that he'd at least tried to throw a punch. Heck, my 5 year old knows how to sprawl. Granted that low single would be tough for a rookie wrestler to stuff but he didn't try anything.

Anyone here that Shaq wants to call out Hong Man Choi for one 7 footer MMA fight? :lol::lol:

[Kenno]

Toney should be totally embarrassed. I mean no one expected him to win, but he could have at least tried to do something.



i agree robbo but if mma is serious about pitting boxers v mma guys then they gotta bring out the big dollars to entice the younger fighters otherwise you end up with these embarrassments which in my opinion do no good for mma. boxing is not hurt but mma takes the hit, it helps blow the trumpet mma v boxing along with these fools that don't fight or train. it really has to look at itself next time it tags a fight mma v boxing!

gotta say that maynard is awesome, he's boxing/striking is some of best in mma by far, plus he has great power. him and edgar/gsp will be a great fight.

[SRock]

i agree robbo but if mma is serious about pitting boxers v mma guys then they gotta bring out the big dollars to entice the younger fighters otherwise you end up with these embarrassments which in my opinion do no good for mma. boxing is not hurt but mma takes the hit, it helps blow the trumpet mma v boxing along with these fools that don't fight or train. it really has to look at itself next time it tags a fight mma v boxing!

gotta say that maynard is awesome, he's boxing/striking is some of best in mma by far, plus he has great power. him and edgar/gsp will be a great fight.

Unfortunately I think even the best boxer vs. the best MMA practitioner would end similarly in 99% of the bouts. Its like comparing apples and oranges. That said, despite looking terrible I think Toney would beat Couture in a pure/true boxing only bout.

[Kenno]

Unfortunately I think even the best boxer vs. the best MMA practitioner would end similarly in 99% of the bouts. Its like comparing apples and oranges. That said, despite looking terrible I think Toney would beat Couture in a pure/true boxing only bout.

That’s not what I was talking about Robbo? Even though I disagree as many mma fighters use basically boxing/ striking to win fights, be it Rashad Evens, Rampage Jackson, Chuck magilla gorilla Liddell, JDS, Maynard, Shane Carwin and Matt Serra to name a few. Most of these guys just learn a few takedown defence moves or how to sprawl. Sure a couple of em have other skills but 99% of the time they just let their fists fly. Even no name ex boxers have done well, so it’s a big call to say 99% of the time it ends the same. Ray Mercer and Toney are the only ones I know of recently and Mercer knocked out Silva, a champion in his first mma fight at 50 years of age?

What I meant was if Dana White and mma want real creed then they gotta entice 1 or 2 of the top 20 current boxers in each weight class, not boxers who haven’t fought in 10 or 20 years? Then give em time to train and then he can trumpet boxing v mma. Otherwise they end up looking and talking like fools as did Toney. Man in training Toney had trouble getting off the ground by himself, when I saw that I lmao.

Plus a lot depends on the individual himself, some people are just more stronger/talented then others.

[The Nid Hog]

I don't think that there's really any incentive for a top boxer to take a UFC fight. They're going to lose. I don't know if there's really any financial incentive for the UFC to promote it either. Do they really get that many extra buys on the PPV by boxing fans who want to see one of the Klitschkos get choked out? I think it's a fluke and UFC should avoid washed up boxers, giants, dwarves, really fat dudes--all of the freakshow stuff that you would see, for example, in a Super Hulk tournament. Besides what kind of cred is Zuffa going to get from hiring boxers? If there was a sport with zero credibility (that isn't jai alai), it's boxing. And I say that as a fan.

I think that I also disagree with assessment of what it is that MMA fighters rely on in the standup. At least in terms of MMA, I think that there's a difference between striking and boxing. A lot of MMA fighters are willing to stand and bang, throw hard punches with light gloves in a way that would get them picked apart in a real boxing match. There isn't a whole lot of technical striking, what I would call boxing. They might be quite accomplished as boxers if we poke them. but they've radically adapted what they do to the particular demands of MMA. Just like Muay Thai. There are lots of guys who train Muay Thai, but you see very few fighters in the cage or in the ring that stand up like a Thai boxer. It all goes into the blender. But, with a few exceptions, these guys don't learn a few takedowns and defenses and let it go at that. If you scratch most really accomplished MMA fighters--and journeymen too--you'll see that they've been wrestling since they were kids.

[rutts]

I still find this debate about boxing and MMA rather humerous in that the Toney vs Couture fight has no real relevance on either sport. Here is just my .02$; the fact is that no matter how many people say that Randy is a legend and a great fighter, he is just mediocre by todays standards in MMA and he is by no means going to make any realistic challenge at any title be it light heavy or heavy. I am a big Randy fan but people only find him interesting because hes old and any real contender would take him out pretty easily. As far as that fight was concerned no matter what the outcome both MMA and boxing had a few excuses already set up based on the two fighters chosen to represent the respective sports. If for example Randy would have been destroyed by Toney then the MMA world would have said " well i guess Randy is past him prime and its time to hang up the gloves" or " well if Toney would have fought a real contender it would have ended diffferently". I think it was a great setup for both sports as the match makers set up a fight where no matter who won, it doesnt matter because no one seriously considers either of these men truely worthy of being a serious represetation of what each sport has to offer ( at least by modern standards). Now that Toney has lost the Boxing world can now begin their series of excuses like " well why doesnt Randy fight him in a boxing match" and " well James hasnt been a serous fighter or athlete for years and if Randy fought a top level guy he would have been destroyed" and so on. But no matter how many of these so called "freak shows" MMA is willing to set up there will always be some animosity between the two sports and that is just fine by me. I am a fan of both sports and I just dont see why people made such a big deal about this match up, beacuse as ive said who really considers either Randy or James a serious representation of Boxing or MMA at its highest level?

Rutts

[Kenno]

I don't think that there's really any incentive for a top boxer to take a UFC fight. They're going to lose. I don't know if there's really any financial incentive for the UFC to promote it either. Do they really get that many extra buys on the PPV by boxing fans who want to see one of the Klitschkos get choked out? I think it's a fluke and UFC should avoid washed up boxers, giants, dwarves, really fat dudes--all of the freakshow stuff that you would see, for example, in a Super Hulk tournament. Besides what kind of cred is Zuffa going to get from hiring boxers? If there was a sport with zero credibility (that isn't jai alai), it's boxing. And I say that as a fan.

I think that I also disagree with assessment of what it is that MMA fighters rely on in the standup. At least in terms of MMA, I think that there's a difference between striking and boxing. A lot of MMA fighters are willing to stand and bang, throw hard punches with light gloves in a way that would get them picked apart in a real boxing match. There isn't a whole lot of technical striking, what I would call boxing. They might be quite accomplished as boxers if we poke them. but they've radically adapted what they do to the particular demands of MMA. Just like Muay Thai. There are lots of guys who train Muay Thai, but you see very few fighters in the cage or in the ring that stand up like a Thai boxer. It all goes into the blender. But, with a few exceptions, these guys don't learn a few takedowns and defenses and let it go at that. If you scratch most really accomplished MMA fighters--and journeymen too--you'll see that they've been wrestling since they were kids.

Since you blokes are looking for a bit of ground and pound and missed my point,

Of course there’s incentive, money and pride are two but if Dana White is serious about pitting the two together he has gotta open the purse strings. Man I would love to see a top 20 boxer given a chance to train and learn the rules so to take on some fighters in the ufc and so would millions of others. The takings would be massive if one could pit champion v champion or well respected “current fighters”. To quote you, “Who would want to see one of the Klitschkos get chocked out”? I wouldn’t mind and neither would millions of others see someone try. Ray Mercer at 50 way overweight, old and probably never trained properly ko’d Silva so I don’t know how you could say they would always lose. Chuck ko’d Randy twice and I would say that all he’s got are some boxing/striking skills? When do you see Chuck wrestle or even kick? I’ve seen plenty of boxing and ufc and what I said about the before mentioned ufc guys above using mainly their fists in a boxing/striking whatever you want to call it way stands. Why would a lot of ufc guys get boxing trainers if their fist striking was so different? They use boxing because it’s the most effective way to use you fists and I see an improvement in recent times because of this.

I have also seen a lot of ufc guys who could do very well in boxing given time to train and learn the rules, Maynard, Rashad and Jds to name a few. Maynard and Rashad throw their fists in a very boxing way/style and anyone who says they don’t doesn’t know what they’re talking about I’m sorry to say! I doubt these guys would get picked apart because of their stance, ever see Tommy Hearn’s stance, hands down low, same as Sugar Ray. What about Marciano what technique did he have, he was just an animal and threw em hard and took plenty. Not all boxers have the same stance and style, so many different styles, like there are so many styles in every other sport. Carwin had Brock beat and he looks and punches like any boxer and (not as polished of course but he has the motions and style of a boxer) all I’ve seen him do is punch and sprawl. I don’t see no out of this world style that makes him look any different? Sure they have other skills but for someone to say boxers can’t learn these skills (that some ufc fighters have very little of or even use) and win is just silly. A lot of boxers come from street fighting, who’s to say Tyson or Foreman or whoever hasn’t been in a few scuffles and had to contend with a few elbows, wrestles or kicks. Interesting you look at this current era of heavyweight boxing to bad mouth it when there still are many many good fighters around. You want me to name a few duds in ufc or mma? I won’t go there as I respect the sport and its fighters. Why didn’t you name the Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton era or the Duran, Hearns, Ray Lenard or Hagler era or any of the current lower weight division champions? Maybe we don’t have great heavyweights of the past but there are still a lot of great boxers around. I would hardly call the top 20 heavyweights in mma great, some really good ones but not all. I think if you scratch hard enough most accomplished mma fighters have a wide range of styles not just wrestling.

My point in the original post was the Dana White marketing of Toney v Coture and mma v boxing, not its fighters! Boxing zero credibility and you’re a fan, lmao. There are more than just heavyweights you know? No one is saying ufc has no creed, so I don’t know why you would say that? What I said and I’ll say it again mma loses creed when it tags a fight boxing v mma/ufc, blows it trumpet and hires 40-50 yo ex boxers that haven’t fought or trained in 10-20 years. That is the joke and if people don’t see or understand that then that’s their problem. Maybe Dana White was just peed off the first time it happened when Mercer ko’d Silva? Every sport has its dramas, ups and downs, boxing has a great and very long history with awesome champions/fighters and I can see hopefully ufc doing the same.

[TimmyBoston]

Ugg, this again. :001_rolle

[The Nid Hog]

Since ... ufc doing the same.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Like any business, I'm sure that Zuffa wants to expand it's market share. The bean counters will sit down and see if two aging practitioners of boxing and MMA, both on one side or the other of the end of their careers, brought in any extra profit. If they did, maybe we'll see more of it. Like I said, I think it's a waste of time. Boxing has not cred that MMA needs. And nothing gets proven by this. You might as well see how an MMA fighter stacks up to a jet pilot, a neurosurgeon or a lumberjack. As long as they're fighting in the cage, the rest is just a distraction.

[Kenno]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Like any business, I'm sure that Zuffa wants to expand it's market share. The bean counters will sit down and see if two aging practitioners of boxing and MMA, both on one side or the other of the end of their careers, brought in any extra profit. If they did, maybe we'll see more of it. Like I said, I think it's a waste of time. Boxing has not cred that MMA needs. And nothing gets proven by this. You might as well see how an MMA fighter stacks up to a jet pilot, a neurosurgeon or a lumberjack. As long as they're fighting in the cage, the rest is just a distraction.

Nah mate I’m not barking up the wrong tree at all,

You missed my point and I’ll say it again like I said in my original post if Dana White wants to blow his trumpet and call the Toney fight mma v boxing then mma takes a hit to its creed. If you think it doesn’t then that’s your call but if ufc/mma keep calling up washed up boxers who don’t train, are way overweight and haven’t fought in 10-20 years and tag it mma v boxing then it will keep losing creed, no doubt. This is also a not fair on the ufc fighter who one would imagine would want to take on the best or well respected fighters in other fighting disciplines, when that happens then they gain creed, not that they need boxing to gain creed and I never said they do but they do need quality opponents like in any sport. What creed is there in beating up a lumberjack? To me this is just common sense.

The lumberjack hasn’t got the creed a prime Tyson, Foreman, Sugar Ray, Marciano, Klitschko, Mayweather or Vic Darchinyan has! Joe the plumber maybe but not the lumberjack?

It’s funny how some people think that mma fighters can improve their skills by hiring boxers but a boxer hiring a wrestler or ju jitsu guy then given time to train and learn the rules is impossible and will always lose! What do you expect a boxer to get in the octagon and only be allowed to use his fist and if he gets in a clinch not allowed to wrestle or knee? Talk about having one arm tied behind ya back! Gee you guys play fair?

Nothing needs to be proven but seeing quality boxers would be great for the fans and millions would pay for it!

[Kenno]

Ugg, this again. :001_rolle

ugg what exactly again? I can't remember people talking about Dana White calling up overweight washed up boxers who haven't fought in 10-20 years and calling it boxing v mma? sorry if it was spoken about before but i can't recall?

[Sullybob]

Isn't Toney the current IBA and NABO heavyweight champion? How does that make him a washed up fighter? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or argumentative, I just don't understand why is considered washed up.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong Toney but it appears to me that he the last year he didn't fight was in 1998. He has fought in a boxing match every year since then, I'm not counting 2010.

[Kenno]

Isn't Toney the current IBA and NABO heavyweight champion? How does that make him a washed up fighter? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or argumentative, I just don't understand why is considered washed up.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong Toney but it appears to me that he the last year he didn't fight was in 1998. He has fought in a boxing match every year since then, I'm not counting 2010.

iba and nabo are not top shelf fighters. they are not even in the top 30-50 in the wbc,wba or ibf. iba is for no name up n comers and nabo is north american. hardly credible. toney is washed up and nowhere near the fighter he was at 20-35 and clearly doesn't train. he was actually a middleweight who got fat and became a heavyweight. he can hardly lift his arms up and is nowhere near fit. same goes for ray mercer. man boxers over 40- 45 aren't really credible anymore. ibf, wbc and wba or even wbo is what maters. he might as well be champion of the little leagues. you seriously think mercer and toney are fit and in their prime at 40-45?

[Sullybob]

iba and nabo are not top shelf fighters. they are not even in the top 30-50 in the wbc,wba or ibf. iba is for no name up n comers and nabo is north american. hardly credible. toney is washed up and nowhere near the fighter he was at 20-35 and clearly doesn't train. he was actually a middleweight who got fat and became a heavyweight. he can hardly lift his arms up and is nowhere near fit. same goes for ray mercer. man boxers over 40- 45 aren't really credible anymore. ibf, wbc and wba or even wbo is what maters. he might as well be champion of the little leagues. you seriously think mercer and toney are fit and in their prime at 40-45?



I have no idea if either one of them are fit. I haven't watched the Mercer/Silvia or Toney/Coture fight. I don't know if Randy is at his prime but I would certainly say that he is fit. I have a hard time believing that Toney can hardly lift his arms up, same goes for Mercer.

[mikeon]

I haven't watched the Mercer/Silvia

Don't have 10 seconds to spare? :laugh:

[Sullybob]

Don't have 10 seconds to spare? :laugh:

Nice :biggrin1:

I wasn't interested enough in the fight to watch it. Good thing I didn't waste my time. :lol::lol:

[The Nid Hog]

Nice :biggrin1:

I wasn't interested enough in the fight to watch it. Good thing I didn't waste my time. :lol::lol:

It actually takes longer to type the message saying that you didn't watch it than it would to watch it!

I didn't watch it either.

[Kenno]

I have no idea if either one of them are fit. I haven't watched the Mercer/Silvia or Toney/Coture fight. I don't know if Randy is at his prime but I would certainly say that he is fit. I have a hard time believing that Toney can hardly lift his arms up, same goes for Mercer.

He can hardly lift his arms up and in training for the coture fight could hardly get up off the ground by himself. Watch his fights and he can hardly stand after 3 rounds. Both of em haven’t properly fought in over 10 years. Playing in the little leagues is hardly fighting. Any boxer over 40 is way past his best and not a representation of boxing. It would be like Jimmy Conners at 50 still playing but not training and holding a local title somewhere that doesn’t involve the top 100 players being called up to represent tennis against a top10 well respected and active badminton player in a badminton setup, getting his azz whipped and badminton players claiming they are better after promoting the match.


^^^^
Nice one Mikeon and thumbs up Shawn for having a sense of humour. btw it's always worth watching the big fellas go down.

[SRock]

Ugg, this again. :001_rolle

:lol: This is one of those arguments that can't ever be answered but will always get fans (of both sides) riled up.


I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Like any business, I'm sure that Zuffa wants to expand it's market share. The bean counters will sit down and see if two aging practitioners of boxing and MMA, both on one side or the other of the end of their careers, brought in any extra profit. If they did, maybe we'll see more of it. Like I said, I think it's a waste of time. Boxing has not cred that MMA needs. And nothing gets proven by this. You might as well see how an MMA fighter stacks up to a jet pilot, a neurosurgeon or a lumberjack. As long as they're fighting in the cage, the rest is just a distraction.

They'd all get their hind ends handed to them by an MMA practitioner! :001_tt2:

[Kenno]

:lol: This is one of those arguments that can't ever be answered but will always get fans (of both sides) riled up.



They'd all get their hind ends handed to them by an MMA practitioner! :001_tt2:

wow, i'm suprised that even the mods didn't get the point of my original post, i'll say it again for the fifth time. my point was dana white promoting mma v boxing and using toney as the example.

you are the blokes who for whatever reason want to talk about who would win between the two codes and then claim it was someone else!:thumbdown
don't know who is riled up as its not me, i was just stating how i see it. if others guys get riled up then that's their problem.

[SRock]

wow, i'm suprised that even the mods didn't get the point of my original post, i'll say it again for the fifth time. my point was dana white promoting mma v boxing and using toney as the example.

you are the blokes who for whatever reason want to talk about who would win between the two codes and then claim it was someone else!:thumbdown
don't know who is riled up as its not me, i was just stating how i see it. if others guys get riled up then that's their problem.

No, we got it Kenno (or at least I did). I was just trying to redirect away from the issue altogether because it always seems to come back to this style vs. that style and people (fans) get heated.