Definition of a Gentleman - Long, Sorry

[richmondesi]

After coming home from a great vacation, I noticed some threads that really made me sad. I didn't sleep well at all last night because of the negativity that I saw being directed at what I've come to believe is a fantastic place to hang out with a great group of guys. What made it worse was the fact that I didn't see nearly the support for the site that I expected. Quite the contrary, I saw a piling on that shocked me. This lead to a lot of back channel conversations that made me do a lot of thinking about the direction that we are heading as a collective group. I think that this is the best forum on the net, and I've seen, what I believe to be, an improvement in the way that we are interacting with each other. If nothing else, it seems that we are moving in the right direction.

However, I think that there is a misconception of what a gentleman is. Gentleman can and do engage in controversies. They are also wrong occasionally. Disagreement in itself isn't ungentlemanly. It's all in the way you conduct yourself. If there is a dispute, and one party is clearly out of line, a gentleman will step in and firmly/decisively deal with the problematic person. I've seen a lot of actions that have made big deals of things that I believed were non-issues, and I think that should stop. This may be my time to be slapped around by some of you guys that have been around for a while, and I may need to be put back in my place. However, I'm not going anywhere unless I get banned for something :lol:

I came across this, and I found it to be very interesting. And it reinforced my feelings specific to what a gentleman is and what it means to be gentlemanly.


"The Definition of a Gentleman"
by Cardinal Newman, from The Idea of a University, a series of lectures given in Ireland, 1852.
Hence it is that it is almost a definition of a gentleman to say that he is one who never inflicts pain. This description is both refined and, as far as it goes, accurate. He is mainly occupied in merely removing the obstacles which hinder the free and unembarrassed action of those about him; and he concurs with their movements rather than takes the initiative himself. His benefits may be considered as parallel to what are called comforts or conveniences in arrangements of a personal nature; like an easy chair or a good fire, which do their part in dispelling cold and fatigue, though nature provides both means of rest and animal heat without them. The true gentleman in like manner carefully avoids whatever may cause a jar or a jolt in the minds of those with whom he is cast --- all clashing of opinion, or collision of feeling, all restraint, or suspicion, or gloom, or resentment; his great concern being to make every one at his ease and at home. He has his eyes on all his company; he is tender towards the bashful, gentle towards the distant, and merciful towards the absurd; he can recollect to whom he is speaking; he guards against unseasonable allusions, or topics which may irritate; he is seldom prominent in conversation, and never wearisome. He makes light of favors while he does them, and seems to be receiving when he is conferring. He never speaks of himself except when compelled, never defends himself by a mere retort; he has no ears for slander or gossip, is scrupulous in imputing motives to those who interfere with him, and interprets everything for the best. He is never mean or little in his disputes, never takes unfair advantage, never mistakes personalities or sharp saying for arguments, or insinuates evil which he dare not say out. From a long-sighted prudence, he observes the maxim of the ancient sage, that we should ever conduct ourselves towards our enemy as if he were one day to be our friend. He has too much good sense to be affronted at insults, he is too well employed to remember injuries, and too indolent to bear malice. He is patient, forbearing, and resigned, on philosophical principles; he submits to pain, because it is inevitable, to bereavement, because it is irreparable, and to death, because it is his destiny.

If he engages in controversy of any kind, his disciplined intellect preserves him from the blundering discourtesy of better, perhaps, but less educated minds; who, like blunt weapons, tear and hack instead of cutting clean, who mistake the point in argument, waste their strength on trifles, misconceive their adversary, and leave the question more involved than they find it. He may be right or wrong in his opinion, but he is too clear-headed to be unjust; he is as simple as he is forcible, and as brief as he is decisive. Nowhere shall we find greater candor, consideration, indulgence: he throws himself into the minds of his opponents, he accounts for their mistakes. He knows the weakness of human reason as well as its strength, its province and its limits.

If he be an unbeliever, he will be too profound and large-minded to ridicule religion or to act against it; he is too wise to be a dogmatist or fanatic in his infidelity. He respects piety and devotion; he even supports institutions as venerable, beautiful, or useful, to which he does not assent; he honors the ministers of religion, and it contents him to decline its mysteries without assailing or denouncing them. He is a friend of religious toleration, and that, not only because his philosophy has taught him to look on all forms of faith with an impartial eye, but also from the gentleness and effeminacy of feeling, which is the attendant on civilization.

I was up two hours thinking this over last night. I'm not interested in starting a fight; I'm here to stay; I think this is the best collection of men on the internet; I'm tired of guys waxing nostalgic to the point that they make new members feel unwelcome; and I'm going to defend the B&B.

That is all. Let the beatings commence:biggrin:

[ravkesef]

Thanks so much for your thoughts, and for the wonderful contribution from Cardinal Newman, both right on target. Herewith (http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1257718#post1257718) something I posted on the topic last June. Hopefully we'll get the idea across and this will truly be a place for civil discourse, even for topics on which we hold strongly differing points of view.

[tsmba]

Somewhere I recently read that nothing can be more boring than constant agreement. Everyone has an opinion, and I've learned so much by reading them. All we have to offer as individuals is our own opinion and observations.
I think there are a few topics that, historically, have led to name-calling, closed threads, etc., but, by and large, things stay civil around here.

[SRock]

Paul this was a well thought out post. I hope it will serve as a reminder to old members and as guidance to new members.

No need to lose sleep brother, we are here with/for you.

[Mr. Scruffy]

...I'm here to stay; I think this is the best collection of men on the internet... and I'm going to defend the B&B.

That is all. Let the beatings commence:biggrin:

No beat down here. I agree completely.:thumbup1:

[Noebie]

i'd not ever read that

thanks for posting

something to which we can all aspire

[sol92258]

Gentleman can and do engage in controversies. They are also wrong occasionally. Disagreement in itself isn't ungentlemanly. It's all in the way you conduct yourself.

Antiseptic.

Ever wonder why antibiotics is a multi-billion dollar field? We live such antiseptic lives that we never let enough germs into our bodies that they learn to fight it off naturally.
My kids' school supply list included germx - UUGGGHHH!
I understand it, I just hate it.
Every bump, scrape, nick, scratch, mom's everywhere reach into their purse and pull out that little bottle and immediately treat little Johnny.
Some cases, yes, that's acceptable.
Most, no. Let his body deal with it naturally. It will get stronger, and more effective than any antiseptic wash can ever be.

What's this got to do with the topic of Gentleman?

Exact same thing. We live in such a "politically correct", "be tolerant", "don't offend/hurt someone's feelings" society we're becoming extremely wussified as a nation.
A gentleman is not a wuss. Gentlemen for centuries have been involved in disagreements, controversial issues, and even fights, while remaining a gentleman.
We've lost that. We can't even have a discussion, online or offline, about sensitive issues without the person who doesn't toe the "PC" line being called an intolerant bigot, or worse.
This is rotting our nation from the inside out.
We're being forced NOT to voice our opinions.
Anyone recognize the line "not with a bang, but a whimper." ?
A gentleman is two things: A man - strong with his beliefs, stands on his morals and ethics; and gentle - applying said characteristics for the best of everyone, even when in disagreement.

That being said, the rules change when online, in that the anonymity provided lowers the inhibitions of pseudo-gentlemen.
Whereas in generations past, gentlemen gathered in a physical barbershop and discussed face to face, being considerate of each other, yet disagreeing vehemently, yet kept coming together out of special bond, and online barbershop doesn't offer said common interest. Sure, we can help each other, but we're not dependent on each other directly.

I believe controversial topics should be discussed, and even disagreements allowed, between people. The concept of "as iron sharpens iron" can apply. I've had some of my views and thoughts refined by being in controversial talks - my belief didn't change necessarily, but it was refined.
We need that, to be strong.
To completely do away with such discussions leads us, as a nation or people, to take whatever belief or value is given to us, with no platform for discussing or disagreeing - a very, extremely scary thought.

But again, it's a very different ballgame when having such discussion online.

Thanks for sharing, Paul!

[richmondesi]

Jim, very well said. While the rules change a bit on an online forum, I don't think that means that we have to toe the PC line on everything or participate in wussified discussions. I think on many occasions, people mistake PC with gentlemanly which is a shame.


Somewhere I recently read that nothing can be more boring than constant agreement. Everyone has an opinion, and I've learned so much by reading them. All we have to offer as individuals is our own opinion and observations.
I think there are a few topics that, historically, have led to name-calling, closed threads, etc., but, by and large, things stay civil around here.

agreed


Paul this was a well thought out post. I hope it will serve as a reminder to old members and as guidance to new members.

No need to lose sleep brother, we are here with/for you.

Thanks, Rob


No beat down here. I agree completely.:thumbup1:

Thanks

[Mr. Clean]

... If there is a dispute, and one party is clearly out of line, a gentleman will step in and firmly/decisively deal with the problematic person. ...
I disagree. A gentleman would only intervene in a fight between two parties if it is apparent that one party is at a clear disadvantage (physicall or mentally). Another reason for intervention could be if one party was being "assaulted" by a "mob" which was participating in "piling on". Otherwise, you let the two parties work things out without outside interference.

I don't know what thread(s) or post(s) prompted the OP but reading this post, really says something that is IMO a universal truth that gets missed regularly by a number of the membership. And I share the opinion that "PC" is a cancer in our society.

... We live in such a "politically correct", "be tolerant", "don't offend/hurt someone's feelings" society we're becoming extremely wussified as a nation.
A gentleman is not a wuss. Gentlemen for centuries have been involved in disagreements, controversial issues, and even fights, while remaining a gentleman.
We've lost that. We can't even have a discussion, online or offline, about sensitive issues without the person who doesn't toe the "PC" line being called an intolerant bigot, or worse.
This is rotting our nation from the inside out.
We're being forced NOT to voice our opinions.
Anyone recognize the line "not with a bang, but a whimper." ?
A gentleman is two things: A man - strong with his beliefs, stands on his morals and ethics; and gentle - applying said characteristics for the best of everyone, even when in disagreement.

That being said, the rules change when online, in that the anonymity provided lowers the inhibitions of pseudo-gentlemen.
Whereas in generations past, gentlemen gathered in a physical barbershop and discussed face to face, being considerate of each other, yet disagreeing vehemently, yet kept coming together out of special bond, and online barbershop doesn't offer said common interest. Sure, we can help each other, but we're not dependent on each other directly.

I believe controversial topics should be discussed, and even disagreements allowed, between people. The concept of "as iron sharpens iron" can apply. I've had some of my views and thoughts refined by being in controversial talks - my belief didn't change necessarily, but it was refined.
We need that, to be strong.
To completely do away with such discussions leads us, as a nation or people, to take whatever belief or value is given to us, with no platform for discussing or disagreeing - a very, extremely scary thought.

But again, it's a very different ballgame when having such discussion online.

Thanks for sharing, Paul!
Paul, if you are losing sleep over internet content, I suggest you take at least a single step back and several deep breaths. There are for more topics of real importance that probably are worthy of concern.

[richmondesi]

I disagree. A gentleman would only intervene in a fight between two parties if it is apparent that one party is at a clear disadvantage (physicall or mentally). Another reason for intervention could be if one party was being "assaulted" by a "mob" which was participating in "piling on". Otherwise, you let the two parties work things out without outside interference.

I don't know what thread(s) or post(s) prompted the OP but reading this post, really says something that is IMO a universal truth that gets missed regularly by a number of the membership. And I share the opinion that "PC" is a cancer in our society.

Paul, if you are losing sleep over internet content, I suggest you take at least a single step back and several deep breaths. There are for more topics of real importance that probably are worthy of concern.

If you are disagreeing with someone, and another person jumps in and starts attacking you maliciously, a gentleman will come to your defense and tell the person that is out of line to back off. They wouldn't come in and say everyone calm down. I'm not loosing sleep over internet content. I stayed up late the night before the OP thinking about a lot of stuff. I did take at least a dozen steps back, and at least several deep breaths before posting this thread. If you think that there are more topics of real importance worthy of concern other than this, why did you even bother posting this response? Someone with undue concern for something of no real importance is hardly worth the energy of someone with all of their priorities in order, right?

[SpyvSpy]

Good post. :thumbup1:

[Bobtrumpet]

That is all. Let the beatings commence:biggrin:

Where's my stick!?!?!

Oh, wait . . . I agree with you.

Never mind.

Good show, Paul. :thumbup1: Keep keepin' on. Don't let 'em get you down, my friend.

[Mr. Clean]

If you are disagreeing with someone, and another person jumps in and starts attacking you maliciously, a gentleman will come to your defense and tell the person that is out of line to back off. They wouldn't come in and say everyone calm down.
I still disagree. A man, gentleman or other should be able to tell the other person to back off without requiring someone else to come to their aid. If they need someone else to fight their fight, then perhaps they shouldn't be posting in an public/internet forum.


I'm not loosing sleep over internet content. I stayed up late the night before the OP thinking about a lot of stuff. I did take at least a dozen steps back, and at least several deep breaths before posting this thread. If you think that there are more topics of real importance worthy of concern other than this, why did you even bother posting this response? Someone with undue concern for something of no real importance is hardly worth the energy of someone with all of their priorities in order, right?
You see by the defensive nature of your response you need to step back and relax. My post was not an attack, but rather a "pat on the back - it'll be OK" response.

But you are correct, I don't find this to be an earth shattering topic or even one that will be remembered in history.

[richmondesi]

I still disagree. A man, gentleman or other should be able to tell the other person to back off without requiring someone else to come to their aid. If they need someone else to fight their fight, then perhaps they shouldn't be posting in an public/internet forum.


You see by the defensive nature of your response you need to step back and relax. My post was not an attack, but rather a "pat on the back - it'll be OK" response.

But you are correct, I don't find this to be an earth shattering topic or even one that will be remembered in history.

I'm not being defensive. I just was pointing out the irony of your post:wink: Additionally, I was referring to some pretty specific events in which both sides have been told to calm down here when one person was clearly being a gentleman and the other was being belligerent.

[paulboeck]

Thanks for that Paul! I'm going to file that definition away for future reference.

[gone down south]

I think the very nature of this board guarantees that there will be some level of conflict. Most posters here are bound together by a single common interest (shaving), but discussions wander off in all sorts of directions. I'm regularly exposed to viewpoints here that I never come across in the off-line world - sometimes I'm absolutely flabbergasted by (what I consider) ignorance and bassackwardness of some people's viewpoints, and I can only imagine that some people are equally horrified to discover that people like me exist in real life :) I'm pretty sure that the majority of members here wouldn't be friends in real life, we're just all too different.

However, I think what makes us gentlemen is the ability to overlook those differences and have a rational discussion about the issue in question. It's been often pointed out that in the US people's social groups tend to be very homogenous, and our viewpoints are reinforced by being exposed only to people who agree with us.

Unlike the screaming monologues that usually pass for 'debate' in this country, I like the intellectual challenge of presenting an argument to someone who's willing to listen and maybe even change his/her mind, as long as I grant the same courtesy in return. B+B threads are usually very well behaved, and only go off the rails when someone forgets their manners and gets upset. Thankfully the mods are good about nipping that off, even if the person in question ends up feeling a little hard done by it's better to have a time-out and calm down.

[rsvossen]

Great thread. I fully agree with you Paul and I am glad you posted it... someone had to say it! :smile:

[strat1117]

Unfortunately, I'm jammed up a work and don't have time for a lengthy reply. I am assuming that my "What happened . . ." thread is one of the threads which you found upsetting, and for that I apologize. In point of fact, I thought we had cleared this issue up entirely in the context of that thread, so I am surprised to see you raising it again now.

In any event, I agree with absolutely everything you say, except that I feel that I have witnessed more ungentlemanly behavior at B&B of late, for all the reasons set forth in the previous thread, and as has been confirmed to me by others who preferred to have the discussion via PM rather than in the thread. It is unfair of you to implicitly characterize my observations as either "negativity" or a "misconception." I am quite aware that reasonable men may differ. I trust you will agree that the art of being a Gentleman is about the manner in which one deals with those differences.

[ouch]

Definition of a gentleman:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/image.php?u=14999&dateline=1249781215

And that didn't take me two hours.

[richmondesi]

Neil, while your thread had something to do with the initiating of this process, it has little to nothing to do with the majority of my post or what I've said in this thread. I've got no problem at all with you. If I did, you would have already known about it.

This thread was a long time in coming.

[strat1117]

Definition of a gentleman:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/image.php?u=14999&dateline=1249781215

And that didn't take me two hours.

:confused: Did I just get smacked? Not that Paul doesn't deserve the compliment (he most assuredly does), it's just the timing that has me confused.


Neil, while your thread had something to do with the initiating of this process, it has little to nothing to do with the majority of my post or what I've said in this thread. I've got no problem at all with you. If I did, you would have already known about it.

This thread was a long time in coming.

Fair enough. Thanks.

[blackfoot]

As Paul already knows, I agree completely. I have questioned a lot recently, myself. Those who know me, knows that I was unusually absent yesterday. In fact, the only reason I was on at all yesterday or today is because I knew it would take an hour or so to catch up if I wasn't.

It seems those of us who have joined this year have brought about changes that are are not to the liking of the B&B community. As Paul said, I found the lack of opposing posts concerning. This seems to indicate this community as a whole definitely feels we have brought negative change. As Neil pointed out, most seem to agree. That isn't to say we've ruined it or this isn't the best place on the web. But, I don't want to be responsible for the destruction of your haven. If my group has negatively affected this place, I don't want to be a part of that.

I am not dropping out. I love this place. It is a highlight of my day to get on here and talk, help, get help, and post nonsense. I go on vacation Saturday, so this will give me a little break. However, I am going to reconsider my contribution to the site. I want it to be positive, even if goofy and whimsical.

[strat1117]

As Paul already knows, I agree completely. I have questioned a lot recently, myself. Those who know me, knows that I was unusually absent yesterday. In fact, the only reason I was on at all yesterday or today is because I knew it would take an hour or so to catch up if I wasn't.

It seems those of us who have joined this year have brought about changes that are are not to the liking of the B&B community. As Paul said, I found the lack of opposing posts concerning. This seems to indicate this community as a whole definitely feels we have brought negative change. As Neil pointed out, most seem to agree. That isn't to say we've ruined it or this isn't the best place on the web. But, I don't want to be responsible for the destruction of your haven. If my group has negatively affected this place, I don't want to be a part of that.

I am not dropping out. I love this place. It is a highlight of my day to get on here and talk, help, get help, and post nonsense. I go on vacation Saturday, so this will give me a little break. However, I am going to reconsider my contribution to the site. I want it to be positive, even if goofy and whimsical.

Blake -- your post is very upsetting to me. I joined right around the same time you did, so you can't think that your joining in any way influenced my thread. I can state unequivocally that you are in no way a part of the issue I was addressing (although the issue has become so clouded at this point, that I can no longer even articulate exactly what it was that set me off in the first place).

I love this B&B, as I know that you do, and I love having it as a place to get info and advice when necessary, and, also, as a place to just to BS and "clown" around when nothing else more pressing is going on. My point was never that "B&B stinks" or that there are other, better places to spend your time. I just felt that I had to say what I said becasue I want it to stay as great as it is.

I had really hoped that this particular discussion had concluded successfully when my thread thankfully died. It was never intended to have the effect of causing you, or anyone else, to leave. Blake, I have never seen you make even one post that was out of line. Why would you even think that you are part of the problem? Quite to the contrary, UI think that thoughtful, gentlemanly guys like you are a part of the solution.

[blackfoot]

Blake -- your post is very upsetting to me. I joined right around the same time you did, so you can't think that your joining in any way influenced my thread. I can state unequivocally that you are in no way a part of the issue I was addressing (although the issue has become so clouded at this point, that I can no longer even articulate exactly what it was that set me off in the first place).

I love this B&B, as I know that you do, and I love having it as a place to get info and advice when necessary, and, also, as a place to just to BS and "clown" around when nothing else more pressing is going on. My point was never that "B&B stinks" or that there are other, better places to spend your time. I just felt that I had to say what I said becasue I want it to stay as great as it is.

I had really hoped that this particular discussion had concluded successfully when my thread thankfully died. It was never intended to have the effect of causing you, or anyone else, to leave. Blake, I have never seen you make even one post that was out of line. Why would you even think that you are part of the problem? Quite to the contrary, UI think that thoughtful, gentlemanly guys like you are a part of the solution.

I really appreciate that, Neil. And I have no hard feelings whatsoever. I also understand that neither you or anybody else feels that B&B stinks or that there is anywhere better.

It seems that those of us joining this year (and that is a lot!) are a group unto ourselves. It seems this group has caused a negative impact on the earlier members. Neil, I believe your thread opened a wound that has been festering. Your post isn't the specific reason I feel this way. It was the large response that seemed to indicate what I said. I hope I am not part of the problem. However, considering this new group as a whole, I am. I speak in the communal sense.

[strat1117]

I really appreciate that, Neil. And I have no hard feelings whatsoever. I also understand that neither you or anybody else feels that B&B stinks or that there is anywhere better.

It seems that those of us joining this year (and that is a lot!) are a group unto ourselves. It seems this group has caused a negative impact on the earlier members. Neil, I believe your thread opened a wound that has been festering. Your post isn't the specific reason I feel this way. It was the large response that seemed to indicate what I said. I hope I am not part of the problem. However, considering this new group as a whole, I am. I speak in the communal sense.

That would make us both part of the problem, and while I do not dismiss the possibility that I have it all wrong (the bad machine doesn't know it's a bad machine), I don't believe that to be the case.

[Bobtrumpet]

:confused: Did I just get smacked? Not that Paul doesn't deserve the compliment (he most assuredly does), it's just the timing that has me confused.

I think it referred to Paul's comment about "two hours" at the end of his post.

[blackfoot]

That would make us both part of the problem, and while I do not dismiss the possibility that I have it all wrong (the bad machine doesn't know it's a bad machine), I don't believe that to be the case.

:lol:

No, I do not think you are part of the problem. I hope I am not as well. However, something has changed in the view of the majority. What that is, I do not know. It just bothers me because it struck a nerve, I guess. I wasn't here before. I can't say what has changed and what hasn't. I did not realise at first, the problem occurred around the time of my joining. So, apparently I am not as sensitive to the problem. But it still disappoints me that some feel this way and I hope it is just a phase and will pass by.

[strat1117]

:lol:

No, I do not think you are part of the problem. I hope I am not as well. However, something has changed in the view of the majority. What that is, I do not know. It just bothers me because it struck a nerve, I guess. I wasn't here before. I can't say what has changed and what hasn't. I did not realise at first, the problem occurred around the time of my joining. So, apparently I am not as sensitive to the problem. But it still disappoints me that some feel this way and I hope it is just a phase and will pass by.

I still wish that I had kept my mouth (keyboard) shut. :frown:

[blackfoot]

I still wish that I had kept my mouth (keyboard) shut. :frown:

It would have been posted eventually. In fact, I had indications of these feelings some time before you posted. I, personally, respect someone willing to lay it out on the table. These feelings have been brewing and someone needed to get it out there for all to see, for ill or better. As I indicated in your thread, I do see some valid points as well.

[The Nid Hog]

Long ago, three monks sat alongside the road under the shade of a beautiful banyan tree. Their hands folded on their laps, they meditated quietly.

One morning, a horse raced down the road, its hooves kicking up a cloud of dust as it passed the place where the monks sat.

Weeks went by. One afternoon, as a cloud moved slowly across the face of the sun, one of the monks quietly said, "It's white."

More weeks passed and the rainy season began. The monks continued their meditation. As the sun broke from behind a cloud, drying the small puddles of rainwater, the second monk replied, "It's black."

Time continued to pass and gradually the cold winds of autumn began to blow. Late one afternoon, the third monk stood up, rolled up his mat and straightened his robes. Donning his straw hat, he stepped into the road.

"Where are you going?" asked the first monk.

"I'm leaving," replied the third. "I can't stand all this arguing."

[blackfoot]

Long ago, three monks sat alongside the road under the shade of a beautiful banyan tree. Their hands folded on their laps, they meditated quietly.

One morning, a horse raced down the road, its hooves kicking up a cloud of dust as it passed the place where the monks sat.

Weeks went by. One afternoon, as a cloud moved slowly across the face of the sun, one of the monks quietly said, "It's white."

More weeks passed and the rainy season began. The monks continued their meditation. As the sun broke from behind a cloud, drying the small puddles of rainwater, the second monk replied, "It's black."

Time continued to pass and gradually the cold winds of autumn began to blow. Late one afternoon, the third monk stood up, rolled up his mat and straightened his robes. Donning his straw hat, he stepped into the road.

"Where are you going?" asked the first monk.

"I'm leaving," replied the third. "I can't stand all this arguing."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I apologise. I get the hint :wink:

[ouch]

:confused: Did I just get smacked? Not that Paul doesn't deserve the compliment (he most assuredly does), it's just the timing that has me confused.

Timing? I just woke up. :lol:

[gollum83]

This is an interesting thread. So what is with all these "Definition of a Gentlemen" and "B&B is Changing" threads as of late? Am I missing something here? Granted I have only been here since March, but I don't see what all this worry is about. Are new members changing this place and for the worse? I doubt it. I mean sure B&B is growing and along with that growth there's bound to be some growing pains, but generally I think the newer member come here for shaving advice and stay for the wonderful sense of community and camaraderie this place has. At least that's why I am still here and because of that the last thing I would wish to do is change the atmosphere here.

[sol92258]

Blake, Neil, any other new folks...to think your presence at B&B has had any negative impact would be ridiculous.
To thing a large "freshman class" is responsible for some of the feelings is a gross misjudgement.
Yes, new folks do change the face of a place a bit, but generally for the better.
Every group is going to experience growing pains at some point, and B&B is no exception.
The only exception to the rule is those that join simply for the purpose of be a detriment. Those folks don't last long.

Clear you mind of any irrational thoughts that you've somehow caused these feelings. E Pluribus Unum and all.

This is a season that shall pass. Don't apologize for your post Neil, Gentlemen air out their differences with each other and move on.
It's always better to know where a person stands than to be guessing.

Just keep doing what you do to make this the best place it can possibly be, and everything will work itself out

[professorchaos]

Certainly gentlemen can disagree and even discuss their differences. It is the manner in which they are discussed that separates gentlemen from savages. Unfortunately, shrill accusations have replaced actual debate.

[gone down south]

I'm new here too, but I haven't seen anything particularly out of the ordinary going on. In fact, this is by far the tightest moderated board I've ever been on. I can't think of a single instance of unpleasantness that wasn't immediately addressed and resolved. What do you think has changed recently?

Frankly, a board where everyone agreed with each other and never get on each other's nerves sounds like a pretty boring board. My 2 cents, but I like the give and take around here, maybe that makes me part of the problem?

[SRock]

Definition of a gentleman:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/image.php?u=14999&dateline=1249781215

And that didn't take me two hours.

+1 Paul is just that, a gentleman!


:confused: Did I just get smacked? Not that Paul doesn't deserve the compliment (he most assuredly does), it's just the timing that has me confused.

I think it was in response to Pauls post not yours.


As Paul already knows, I agree completely. I have questioned a lot recently, myself. Those who know me, knows that I was unusually absent yesterday. In fact, the only reason I was on at all yesterday or today is because I knew it would take an hour or so to catch up if I wasn't.

It seems those of us who have joined this year have brought about changes that are are not to the liking of the B&B community. As Paul said, I found the lack of opposing posts concerning. This seems to indicate this community as a whole definitely feels we have brought negative change. As Neil pointed out, most seem to agree. That isn't to say we've ruined it or this isn't the best place on the web. But, I don't want to be responsible for the destruction of your haven. If my group has negatively affected this place, I don't want to be a part of that.

I am not dropping out. I love this place. It is a highlight of my day to get on here and talk, help, get help, and post nonsense. I go on vacation Saturday, so this will give me a little break. However, I am going to reconsider my contribution to the site. I want it to be positive, even if goofy and whimsical.

I think you are reading too deeply into it...


Long ago, three monks sat alongside the road under the shade of a beautiful banyan tree. Their hands folded on their laps, they meditated quietly.

One morning, a horse raced down the road, its hooves kicking up a cloud of dust as it passed the place where the monks sat.

Weeks went by. One afternoon, as a cloud moved slowly across the face of the sun, one of the monks quietly said, "It's white."

More weeks passed and the rainy season began. The monks continued their meditation. As the sun broke from behind a cloud, drying the small puddles of rainwater, the second monk replied, "It's black."

Time continued to pass and gradually the cold winds of autumn began to blow. Late one afternoon, the third monk stood up, rolled up his mat and straightened his robes. Donning his straw hat, he stepped into the road.

"Where are you going?" asked the first monk.

"I'm leaving," replied the third. "I can't stand all this arguing."

Well played!


Certainly gentlemen can disagree and even discuss their differences. It is the manner in which they are discussed that separates gentlemen from savages. Unfortunately, shrill accusations have replaced actual debate.

+1

Guys its all about how we conduct ourselves not what we believe (morally, ethically, politically, on religion etc.) We can agree and we can disagree and both need to be accomplished with decorum. This is a fantastic forum and a great community.

Remember all even the Brady Bunch had arguments. :wink:

[blackfoot]

As I mentioned, neither Paul's post of Neil's were the sole reason for my feelings. Based on private conversations, I know I am not the only one feeling this way.

That being said, I have had some conversations since my last post that explained a little more. I can see the point now. I don't agree completely, nor do I have to. I do understand and appreciate the openness on everybody's part. I no longer feel like the burden that I was starting to feel like.

Neil, I am glad you brought this up.

[gollum83]

Guys its all about how we conduct ourselves not what we believe (morally, ethically, politically, on religion etc.) We can agree and we can disagree and both need to be accomplished with decorum. This is a fantastic forum and a great community.

Very well put. Besides things would get rather bland around here if we all agreed on our beliefs.


Remember all even the Brady Bunch had arguments. :wink:


Take Rob's last comment for example. Comparing us to the Brady Bunch? I can't believe that. Refuse to believe that. Heck, I'm down right insulted by this heinous accusation my friend. How dare you even suggest this! :mad::tongue::lol:

[SRock]

Take Rob's last comment for example. Comparing us to the Brady Bunch? I can't believe that. Refuse to believe that. Heck, I'm down right insulted by this heinous accusation my friend. How dare you even suggest this! :mad::tongue::lol:

:tongue_sm :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :tongue_sm

[richmondesi]

Definition of a gentleman:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/image.php?u=14999&dateline=1249781215

And that didn't take me two hours.

Thanks, Jay. BTW, I said I wasn't going anywhere, but that was before my new custom title... I may reconsider that :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[sol92258]

Thanks, Jay. BTW, I said I wasn't going anywhere, but that was before my new custom title... I may reconsider that :lol::lol::lol::lol:
oh my, what'd you do now?

[gollum83]

oh my, what'd you do now?

Yeah, what did you do? Dog food for dinner? Did this stem from Sue's comment in the thread on spam?

[richmondesi]

My mom called spam dog food, and I embarrassed her one day in the grocery store by asking for it that way... Funny thing is, I went around the world telling that story trying to avoid just this sort of thing :lol:

[gollum83]

Hmm... You know maybe it's just me, but your plan appears to have backfired there some Paul. :lol:

[Gruder]

Hmm... You know maybe it's just me, but your plan appears to have backfired there some Paul. :lol:

Pot, meet kettle. :biggrin:

[gollum83]

Pot, meet kettle. :biggrin:

You know instead of ridiculing me you could, oh I don't know, put in a good word with the rest of the mod squad. Help a friend. Help change my current situation. Be a nice guy. You know that sort of thing? :ihih:

[sol92258]

You know instead of ridiculing me you could, oh I don't know, put in a good word with the rest of the mod squad. Help a friend. Help change my current situation. Be a nice guy. You know that sort of thing? :ihih:
why?

[SRock]

why?

:lol::lol:

[Gruder]

You know instead of ridiculing me you could, oh I don't know, put in a good word with the rest of the mod squad. Help a friend. Help change my current situation. Be a nice guy. You know that sort of thing? :ihih:

Who said the mods control titles? :confused:

[gollum83]

why?

Because Chad is a great guy? :biggrin:

Perhaps you're right. The comedic value from my suffering has yet to run its course. :lol:

[SRock]

Perhaps you're right. The comedic value from my suffering has yet to run its course. :lol:

:tongue_sm

[sol92258]

http://www.snorgtees.com/images/LetsGetHammered_Fullpic_1.gif

[SRock]

This isn't picture tag. I was making a point. Sorry if I started a thread hijack here.

[wakeboarder4402]

Antiseptic.

Ever wonder why antibiotics is a multi-billion dollar field? We live such antiseptic lives that we never let enough germs into our bodies that they learn to fight it off naturally.
My kids' school supply list included germx - UUGGGHHH!
I understand it, I just hate it.
Every bump, scrape, nick, scratch, mom's everywhere reach into their purse and pull out that little bottle and immediately treat little Johnny.
Some cases, yes, that's acceptable.
Most, no. Let his body deal with it naturally. It will get stronger, and more effective than any antiseptic wash can ever be.

What's this got to do with the topic of Gentleman?

Exact same thing. We live in such a "politically correct", "be tolerant", "don't offend/hurt someone's feelings" society we're becoming extremely wussified as a nation.
A gentleman is not a wuss. Gentlemen for centuries have been involved in disagreements, controversial issues, and even fights, while remaining a gentleman.
We've lost that. We can't even have a discussion, online or offline, about sensitive issues without the person who doesn't toe the "PC" line being called an intolerant bigot, or worse.
This is rotting our nation from the inside out.
We're being forced NOT to voice our opinions.
Anyone recognize the line "not with a bang, but a whimper." ?
A gentleman is two things: A man - strong with his beliefs, stands on his morals and ethics; and gentle - applying said characteristics for the best of everyone, even when in disagreement.

That being said, the rules change when online, in that the anonymity provided lowers the inhibitions of pseudo-gentlemen.
Whereas in generations past, gentlemen gathered in a physical barbershop and discussed face to face, being considerate of each other, yet disagreeing vehemently, yet kept coming together out of special bond, and online barbershop doesn't offer said common interest. Sure, we can help each other, but we're not dependent on each other directly.

I believe controversial topics should be discussed, and even disagreements allowed, between people. The concept of "as iron sharpens iron" can apply. I've had some of my views and thoughts refined by being in controversial talks - my belief didn't change necessarily, but it was refined.
We need that, to be strong.
To completely do away with such discussions leads us, as a nation or people, to take whatever belief or value is given to us, with no platform for discussing or disagreeing - a very, extremely scary thought.

But again, it's a very different ballgame when having such discussion online.

Thanks for sharing, Paul!

VERY well said! That being said I think that for the most part we have an absolutely WONDERFUL group of guys, (and a few ladies) here. I joined only back in May and am absolutely floored by the close knittedness of this community. Everything from the gathering of a few members for the first time in Vegas a few months ago, to people posting prayer requests and the huge amount of support they receive says a lot about the people gathered here. I personally, am extremely happy that I stumbled upon this wonderful place and look forward to all the time I have yet to spend here.

[blackfoot]

very well said! That being said i think that for the most part we have an absolutely wonderful group of guys, (and a few ladies) here. I joined only back in may and am absolutely floored by the close knittedness of this community. Everything from the gathering of a few members for the first time in vegas a few months ago, to people posting prayer requests and the huge amount of support they receive says a lot about the people gathered here. I personally, am extremely happy that i stumbled upon this wonderful place and look forward to all the time i have yet to spend here.

+1

[Kenno]

Antiseptic.

Ever wonder why antibiotics is a multi-billion dollar field? We live such antiseptic lives that we never let enough germs into our bodies that they learn to fight it off naturally.
My kids' school supply list included germx - UUGGGHHH!
I understand it, I just hate it.
Every bump, scrape, nick, scratch, mom's everywhere reach into their purse and pull out that little bottle and immediately treat little Johnny.
Some cases, yes, that's acceptable.
Most, no. Let his body deal with it naturally. It will get stronger, and more effective than any antiseptic wash can ever be.

What's this got to do with the topic of Gentleman?

Exact same thing. We live in such a "politically correct", "be tolerant", "don't offend/hurt someone's feelings" society we're becoming extremely wussified as a nation.
A gentleman is not a wuss. Gentlemen for centuries have been involved in disagreements, controversial issues, and even fights, while remaining a gentleman.
We've lost that. We can't even have a discussion, online or offline, about sensitive issues without the person who doesn't toe the "PC" line being called an intolerant bigot, or worse.
This is rotting our nation from the inside out.
We're being forced NOT to voice our opinions.
Anyone recognize the line "not with a bang, but a whimper." ?
A gentleman is two things: A man - strong with his beliefs, stands on his morals and ethics; and gentle - applying said characteristics for the best of everyone, even when in disagreement.

That being said, the rules change when online, in that the anonymity provided lowers the inhibitions of pseudo-gentlemen.
Whereas in generations past, gentlemen gathered in a physical barbershop and discussed face to face, being considerate of each other, yet disagreeing vehemently, yet kept coming together out of special bond, and online barbershop doesn't offer said common interest. Sure, we can help each other, but we're not dependent on each other directly.

I believe controversial topics should be discussed, and even disagreements allowed, between people. The concept of "as iron sharpens iron" can apply. I've had some of my views and thoughts refined by being in controversial talks - my belief didn't change necessarily, but it was refined.
We need that, to be strong.
To completely do away with such discussions leads us, as a nation or people, to take whatever belief or value is given to us, with no platform for discussing or disagreeing - a very, extremely scary thought.

But again, it's a very different ballgame when having such discussion online.

Thanks for sharing, Paul!

Mate Harry Callahan coudn't have said it better!
Do I think Dirty Harry was a "gentleman",,,,well yes I do.

While I agree with this post to a certain extent, there are other variables that can be taken into consideration. Everyone's idea of a gentleman is different as are cultures from different nations. Aussies bag each other heaps in a fun way and to other nations this can come across as rude. English, Scottish and Irish people will know what I'm talking about. We don't take this bagging as being personal and as most of us can dish it as well as we can take it. Would we speak like this in front of women and children or people of God, no we wouldn't. Don't get me wrong I'm not talking about disgusting swearing or abuse, just some friendly banter that can seem as if one is having a go at someone but is just throwing in a few rib ticklers and having some fun.

As an example I said to a guy after he stuffed up, "I like you Mark" and he said, "yeah, why's that?" and I said, "it's becuase you remind me when I was young and stupid", everyone started laughing, but you know what, the cheeky bugger replied,"well if I remind you when you were young and stupid I hope you don't remind me when I'm old and dumb", everyone cracked up and we all had a good laugh, bugger was quick off the draw. Needless to say I was a bit cautious of showing him my charm next time around.

Another time a guy kept missing his shot in a game of pool and I said to him, "man your about as useless as a glass eye in a keyhole"! The whole pub pissed themselves laughing, even the guy laughed at it and found the funny side. True gentlemen can take these rib ticklers without spitting the dummy. Other people would say, well you shouldn't have said that as he was trying he's best. Well yeah he was but we had to keep buying the other guys beers for losing and me mate knew he was playing bad so I thought to break the tension he was obviously feeling I thought I'd say something funny, which everyone thought it was and my partner laughed at it too and we had a great night. Ya gotta learn to laugh at yourself.

You don't want to feel like your treading on egg shells every time you talk and a little wit is all that is needed to break the tension sometimes?

To the Mods I'd say be slow to judge and kind when you have to discipline. I understand it's your site and you are free to do as you wish and you do do a good job and have a good site, just don't let your power of moderation cloud your judgment. The last thing I want is for this site to fall into the gutter and you do a good job at not letting that happen.

Sometimes it's better to be funny than right or too nice as too nice can sometimes come across as being pretentious. Being in a too nice or perfect environment can be a tense situation as you gotta think twice about what your gonna say and can inhibit spontaneity. Don't get me wrong, many times it's better to be nice than to say something nasty, it's just good when you can be forgiven for your stuff ups and this is what makes a true gentleman, to be able to forgive.

An Aussies two cents worth,

A day without laughter is a day lost, even if it means laughing at yourself.