Michael Vick - Enough Already

[Wilpar76]

Sorry if I am late to the game on this one fellas. However, the sports talk radio programs here in Baltimore have been all over this like white on rice and I am tired of it. This is like CNN when Michael Jackson died. Don't get me wrong, I love Michael Jackson, but there were other things happening in the world at the time. I have the same feeling about Michael Vick. I am not going to dwell on what he did, the time he served or how he has or hasn't repented.

I want to talk about Michael Vick the football player. Michael Vick is an EXCEPTIONAL athlete. I am talking elite here. It doesn't get much better with respect to football with his speed, quickness, lateral movement, agility, cannon arm, etc.

BUT. . .

I think he is really only an AVERAGE TO SLIGHTLY ABOVE AVERAGE quarterback. Surprisingly, no one else has voiced this opinion. Steve Young started down this road on ESPN, but he was treading lightly. Case in point, Vick cannot read defenses which is why his ability to improvise s comes in handy in the rushing game. Also, he doesn't check down to his receivers. When he was in Atlanta, he basically only threw to Alge Crumpler.

I just wish everyone would look at this story a little differently. I am not trying to kick the man while he is down or on his way back up in this case. I just think people are making Superman out of Mighty Mouse.

Now, I think it is a good thing he went to Philly, because Donovan McNabb used to be the same way. Now McNabb can read defenses and he spreads the ball out to all of his receivers. Andy Reid is one hell of a coach and hopefully he can help Vick resurrect his career.

[Groundhog]

Don't worry....with Favre coming back today, Vick just got bumped of the front page.

[mretzloff]

Don't worry....with Favre coming back today, Vick just got bumped of the front page.

Oh, God...We'll see nothing but Favre all over SportsCenter for the next few weeks :frown:

[Fairchild86]

Don't worry....with Favre coming back today, Vick just got bumped of the front page.
So true... It has only been one day and I'm already tired of hearing about Brett Favre. Oh well...

[Wilpar76]

Don't worry....with Favre coming back today, Vick just got bumped of the front page.

Uh oh, I feel another rant coming on:lol::lol::lol:

[K9DVM]

It just gives me another reason not to watch professional football (and I really didn't need one). I've had it with these overpaid clowns.

[mretzloff]

It just gives me another reason not to watch professional football (and I really didn't need one). I've had it with these overpaid thugs.

Fixed :biggrin:

[Emmett]

Oh, God...We'll see nothing but Favre all over SportsCenter for the next few weeks :frown:

Just when I had begun to relax at the prospect of a Favre-free season. :001_rolle

[Shane]

I'll say this about the Michael Vick subject once and for all: he served the sentence given to him in Leavenworth. He worked the construction job he was ordered to work for his work release program. He's served his suspension that was given to him by Roger Goodell. I'm not validating what the guy did, not by a longshot, but he paid the debt he incurred to society and to the NFL and now it's just time to put the whole thing behind us, it's old.

[Wilpar76]

. . . and now it's just time to put the whole thing behind us, it's old.

I could not have said it better.

[elalan]

Vick presents such a dichotomy. A unique set of skills at a position that requires wins. He doesn't win. He has lost years of potential due to his idiocy. A slightly more athletic Kordell Stewart?

[FLTiger]

Don't worry....with Favre coming back today, Vick just got bumped of the front page.

+1

I hope Favre throws for 8 touchdowns vs Green Bay...and runs for 2. Then, perhaps he can get it out of his system and retire in peace. :rolleyes:

[FreezerBurns]

Vick's new job: Flanker,slot back, back up QB, holder

Favre: Drama instigator, attention fiend, superbowl ring never-having.

[Masterofsparks]

OK....Vick is going to Philly....rough house....rough fans....now what I want to see is the show outside the stadium when PETA shows up to protest and the fans give them a trashing!

As far as Bret Farve goes............come on! On again off again, on again off again, on again off again..............it's like my wife dressing to go out on a date at night! Enough already! He had the chance to do the classy thing and go out on top....now he is just a has been who doesn't know when to say enough is enough! Jeeze!

[TimmyBoston]

OK....Vick is going to Philly....rough house....rough fans....now what I want to see is the show outside the stadium when PETA shows up to protest and the fans give them a trashing!


I'm not a PETA supporter by any means, but you can't seriously be saying you're against PETA in this situation? Can you?

[SRock]

Don't worry....with Favre coming back today, Vick just got bumped of the front page.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Baloosh]

Favre: Drama instigator, attention fiend, superbowl ring never-having.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre#MVPs_and_Super_Bowl_seasons_.281995.E2 .80.931997.29

He's won one Ring.

[Seraphim]

All I can say is:
















GO PATS!:lol::lol::lol:

[SRock]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre#MVPs_and_Super_Bowl_seasons_.281995.E2 .80.931997.29

He's won one Ring.

:lol::lol::lol: Maybe he meant never again!


All I can say is:



GO PATS!:lol::lol::lol:

Yes, Go Away! :lol::lol::lol::lol: I'm from Indy I'll bet you can figure out who my team is!

[Seraphim]

Yes, Go Away! :lol::lol::lol::lol: I'm from Indy I'll bet you can figure out who my team is!


Oh, that hurts, man.



Anyhow, I still respect you as a human being, a gentleman.



Just not on Sunday afternoons and certain Monday nights!:lol:

[tsmba]

I saw something about this. While I agree folks should get a second chance, I'd equate mistreating animals right up there with sex offenses. Somehow, saying you're sorry and donating some money to a humane society doesn't cut it, IMO.

Anyone who abuses animals has MORE than a few loose screws. I can't envision that kind of individual being "rehabilitated".

[SpyvSpy]

While I agree that mistreating animals is VERY wrong. What does it have to do with football? Nothing. I'd rather hear about vick than Favre who I can't stand.

[mretzloff]

While I agree that mistreating animals is VERY wrong. What does it have to do with football?

Everything.

If a "regular" person, such as you or me, did this, we would never be able to find a job again. What outrages so many people, including myself, is that celebrities are able to dodge the law and end up with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

[SpyvSpy]

Very good point, I never really thought of it like that.

[JBLAZE725]

I'm a Philly fan, but am not the least bit happy with the acquisition of Vick. I don't consider him a very good quarterback, but do realize that his athletic ability is phenomenal and used correctly, such as in wildcat formations and such, he could cause defenses great problems. My main problem is that he is just another in the long list of athletes and celebrities who do whatever the hell they want and get off easy for it. I am also an animal lover and believe his acts were atrocious. Everyone keeps saying he paid his dues and is genuinely sorry for what he did and has changed. I say bullsh*t. He killed over 100 dogs that they know of and spent less than 2 years in jail. The only reason he is "sorry" is because he got caught and he has to be. Had he not been caught I am sure he would still be fighting and killing these dogs without a care in the world. Not someone I want on my team. It's amazing to me that people say such bad thing about T.O. and don't want him to play on their team, but are ok with Vick. I think priorities may be a bit skewed here.

[christopherh]

I wonder who will be the first opposing team to play "Who let the dogs out" when Vick takes the field.

[kongjie]

I just think people are making Superman out of Mighty Mouse.

Mighty Mouse could do a number on Superman. Just imagine all that power in a tiny, impossible-to-catch mouse.

[tsmba]

I believe that professional sports players need to be held to higher standards than average guys. Kids look up to them, as do some adults. This character uses the media to make a statement about "how much he learned" and "the steps I am taking to make amends". That's all well and good, but for most of us, we're judged by our actions and don't have the media to make us look good.

I think Vick's new job should be cleaning stadium toilets and picking up cigarette butts. He announces he has "reformed", let him prove it like Joe Six-Pack. Too often, the message is that we have a different legal system for celebrities and those with big bucks!

[danek]

He is a dirt bag, piece of $h!#. He says that he made a mistake. No, he didn't make a mistake; he was successful in his attempts to abuse, torture, and kill innocent, helpless creatures - again, and again, and again. He's sorry he got caught and has to admit his crimes.

I wish the NFL would make an example and defend their "code of conduct". I'm dissappointed and disgusted that someone can commit heinous acts of cruelty and two years later, people are regarding him as a "superman" type of player.

[TimmyBoston]

He is a dirt bag, piece of $h!#. He says that he made a mistake. No, he didn't make a mistake; he was successful in his attempts to abuse, torture, and kill innocent, helpless creatures - again, and again, and again. He's sorry he got caught and has to admit his crimes.

I wish the NFL would make an example and defend their "code of conduct". I'm dissappointed and disgusted that someone can commit heinous acts of cruelty and two years later, people are regarding him as a "superman" type of player.

I couldn't agree more. Roger Goodell is a ^%#$&$ joke.

6 game suspension for ruthlessly slaughtering dozens of dogs.

8 game suspension for shooting in a nightclub.

16 game suspension for killing someone.

Law and Order commissioner, my @$$. :rolleyes:

[SpyvSpy]

I wonder who will be the first opposing team to play "Who let the dogs out" when Vick takes the field.

:lol:

[Kratos]

We'll see. Somebody who thinks it's ok to play Caesar with a bunch of dogs typically doesn't change their mindset about it. Most serial killers start of with animals. Not trying to draw parallels here, just trying to illustrate it's not the sort of thing you do on a lark, or because you "just made a mistake." He's just sorry he got caught, otherwise he'd likely still be doing it.

Celebs get off waaay too easily. The Stallworth debacle made me sick. Oh well. One way or another, everybody gets what's comin'.

[SRock]

Oh, that hurts, man.



Anyhow, I still respect you as a human being, a gentleman.



Just not on Sunday afternoons and certain Monday nights!:lol:

Fair enough. Tues - Sat friends then (at least during the regular season)! :lol:

[mretzloff]

I couldn't agree more. Roger Goodell is a ^%#$&$ joke.

6 game suspension for ruthlessly slaughtering dozens of dogs.

8 game suspension for shooting in a nightclub.

16 game suspension for killing someone.

Law and Order commissioner, my @$$. :rolleyes:

Are there any good commissioners? None of them do their job.

[JBLAZE725]

We'll see. Somebody who thinks it's ok to play Caesar with a bunch of dogs typically doesn't change their mindset about it. Most serial killers start of with animals. Not trying to draw parallels here, just trying to illustrate it's not the sort of thing you do on a lark, or because you "just made a mistake." He's just sorry he got caught, otherwise he'd likely still be doing it.

Celebs get off waaay too easily. The Stallworth debacle made me sick. Oh well. One way or another, everybody gets what's comin'.

+1 I just hope they all get what's coming. These people are all getting off way too easy.

[marvin100]

If you think he got off too easy, blame the judge & jury. He served his time.

Me? I'm glad he's back. He's exciting to watch--maybe more exciting than any other player I've ever seen (Barry Sanders excepted). I grew up knowing not to idolize sports stars, and it's parents' duty to teach their kids that the people they see doing seemingly superhuman things on TV are really just humans; some are worthy of some level of admiration, but none of adulation.

[TimmyBoston]

If you think he got off too easy, blame the judge & jury. He served his time.

Me? I'm glad he's back..

Sorry, I can't post now, I need to go throw up. :rolleyes:

[marvin100]

Sorry, I can't post now, I need to go throw up. :rolleyes:

What a gentlemanly response :rolleyes:

[SRock]

I hate to disagree Marvin, but I think Tims response was a bit more natural given the horrible things Vick did or has contributed directly to. As far as paying the piper or serving time had he been an average Joe he'd still be behind bars.

I'm not a big fan of special treatment for celebrities or the rich.

[TimmyBoston]

What a gentlemanly response :rolleyes:

A gentlemen is fully entitled to be offended by atrocious behavior. You're entitled to your viewpoint, but I'm equally entitled to my disgust over Vick and anyone connected with him.

[marvin100]

You were making allusions to vomit because of Vick's behavior? Coulda fooled me...from your highlighting of my words it seems pretty evident that you were responding not to Vick's behavior but to my desire to watch him run and throw on a football field. Unless, of course, you think my opinion is "atrocious behavior"...

Again, if you think Vick should have served more time your ire should be directed at the judge and jury. We have laws and a legal system; they're not perfect, but they're all we've got. I'm not sure what else people want Vick to do--surely he's entitled to seek employment, and surely it's not a surprise that people with special skills, talents, and training have an easier time doing that than do the rest of us "regular Joes."

If people with Michael Vick's skill set were a dime a dozen he'd probably have a much harder time finding work. That's just not the case, and no amount of bemoaning the fact will change it. Neither will blaming Vick for perceived lax treatment in the justice system. I'm assuming nobody here is actually insinuating there was foul play in his trial...am I wrong about that?

[marvin100]

As far as paying the piper or serving time had he been an average Joe he'd still be behind bars.

Why do you think so? I'm genuinely curious--are you aware of precedents that show Vick's sentence was anomalous?

[TimmyBoston]

You were making allusions to vomit because of Vick's behavior? Coulda fooled me...from your highlighting of my words it seems pretty evident that you were responding not to Vick's behavior but to my desire to watch him run and throw on a football field. Unless, of course, you think my opinion is "atrocious behavior"...

Again, if you think Vick should have served more time your ire should be directed at the judge and jury. We have laws and a legal system; they're not perfect, but they're all we've got. I'm not sure what else people want Vick to do--surely he's entitled to seek employment, and surely it's not a surprise that people with special skills, talents, and training have an easier time doing that than do the rest of us "regular Joes."

If people with Michael Vick's skill set were a dime a dozen he'd probably have a much harder time finding work. That's just not the case, and no amount of bemoaning the fact will change it. Neither will blaming Vick for perceived lax treatment in the justice system. I'm assuming nobody here is actually insinuating there was foul play in his trial...am I wrong about that?

Michael Vick is a monster. I met him years ago playing against each other in college. I know a few of his former teammates quite well. He's always been a world class you know what. If you want to idolize him because he is an extrodinary football player, go right ahead, but I put someone's character as far more important than any athletic accomplishment.

You're clearly just trying to argue this just to argue, because no one can defend the heinousness of Vick's actions. They are deplorable. He is a deplorable man. He did serve his time, but there far more important things in the world than just our legal system. As to why you can only bring up the system to defend him, I have no idea, but I have no desire to further debate with you the disgraceful actions of Michael Vick. If you want to keep up your hero worship go right ahead, watch him every chance you get, but I'll continue doing what I'm doing, every time I see him, I'll think about the innocent creatures that he brutally slaughtered for his own enjoyment. And that's far more important than anything that can happen on a football field. I should know, I've seen a lot of those things first hand.

[marvin100]

Actually, if you'll reread my earlier comment you'll see that idolizing and hero worship are the opposite of what I feel. Much like I can enjoy the music of Elvis without being enraged by his drug abuse, the poetry of Robert Frost without being disgusted by his domestic abuse, the paintings of Mark Rothko despite his cowardly suicide, and the smooth mechanics of a 60's Ford auto despite Henry Ford's disgusting anti-semitism and outright support of the Nazis, I feel no emotional connection to Vick--he's just a guy running around on my TV, a collection of pixels that give me a little excitement on a Sunday afternoon.

On no level am I trying to defend or excuse what he did, and I challenge you to find anything I've written that implies such a stance.

Now, I had no way of knowing you had personal interaction with Vick. That, of course, is a different matter, and a personal one. I'd probably be less likely to enjoy watching him elude tacklers if he'd stolen my girlfriend or cheated in my history class or something (just as I'd have a harder time enjoying Jimi Hendrix's music if he'd slept with my girlfriend or puked on my couch when he was out of his mind on drugs). Care to fill us in on any damning Mike Vick stories? Could be entertaining.

ON EDIT: What I mean here is that it's easier for me to understand your strong emotional reaction now that I know you've had personal dealings with him.

[marvin100]

Anyway, I really don't mean to offend or irritate you. I have to attend to some business now & won't be around to respond, so consider this my effort at bowing out with at least a modicum of grace.

[SRock]

No Marvin I don't know of any cases of average Joe's who committed the atrocities that Vick committed so I can't say whether two (roughly) years was reasonable or not. My point was more that he did terrible things and whether or not they were properly or fairly punished is up to our legal system. However, now he is moving back into the spotlight. Is that the kind of person you want your children to idolize?

I am a firm believer in forgiveness but the level of which we afford celebrities is both sickening and disturbing. What kind of a message does it send to your children when you can TORTURE and MURDER live animals and after a very short sentence you can go right back to being a multi-millionaire celebrity in the NFL?

I think Vick is (or at least was) a great athlete. He was a decent QB (not top 10 though). However, as a person he isn't much of a human being.


ON EDIT: What I mean here is that it's easier for me to understand your strong emotional reaction now that I know you've had personal dealings with him.

Now that is a reasonable understanding of TimmyB's response.

[SRock]

Anyway, I really don't mean to offend or irritate you. I have to attend to some business now & won't be around to respond, so consider this my effort at bowing out with at least a modicum of grace.

Sometimes this is the best we can do lest we escalate things. Have a great day Marvin!

[TimmyBoston]

Marvin, the flaw in your logic is these guys are not collections of pixels on your TV, they are flesh and blood people with thoughts, feelings, and real life actions. As much as you and I may not want him to be, he is a role model. He can do things with a football that only a handful of people on the planet can do. But his character is atrocious. If you and I got busted for dogfighting, we'd never get another decent job, no matter what skills we had. Celebrities have different rules and that sucks, but it's unlikely to change. Michael Vick influences hundreds of thousands and more likely millions of kids and other impressionable people out there and this ruling shows that no one in the NFL and Eagles organization, Donovan McNabb and Tony Dungy, they all don't give a damn that what he did was unforgivable. Regardless of how entertaining he is, no one should be watching him. It's an endorsement, whether you mean it to be or not. When you watch him, you are promoting him, you are giving him more power, money, credibility, etc and I can't understand any smart, reasonable person (like yourself) wanting to do that.

EDIT: Marvin, my reaction isn't so visceral, because of my personal experience with him, that was minimal, but I knew what kind of person he was, but that's true of the a lot of guys like him, they start getting treated like gods when they're 18 years and it goes to their heads. My reaction is visceral, is because he slaughtered innocent creatures for no reason. It's sick, it's disgusting and it's wrong. I will never forgive it and I will never agree with anyone who is in favor of him going back to his lofty life after he what he did. So no offense, but I find comments, like "I'm glad he's back" totally unfathomable coming from a reasonable person.

He didn't steal my girlfriend, no, but he did routinely sleep with girlfriends of many of his teammates just to prove that he could, promising the girls money and influence, it was obvious to everyone even when he was 18 that he was going in the first round. If I remember correctly and if my sources were accurate his drugs of choice were marijuana and ecstasy. I don't think he attended more than a handful of classes, if that, during his college career either. But sadly that's true at most schools for most of the top athletes. So much for higher education, right? :rolleyes:

Hopefully I have changed the subject enough and we can discuss college parties rather than the original topic. :crazy:

[TimmyBoston]

Anyway, I really don't mean to offend or irritate you. I have to attend to some business now & won't be around to respond, so consider this my effort at bowing out with at least a modicum of grace.

I'm out too. Hope your business goes well.

[tsmba]

I think you guys did a nice job hashing out your feelings. I don't watch football and had never heard about this guy until I saw a replay of his little speech about how sorry he was and how much he's doing to make amends. It left me feeling unclean.
I would hope that the NFL would make a statement (other than allowing him back aboard the gravy train). Yes, he served his sentence, yes, he deserves be able to seek employment. However, he has been granted far more: a stage to spew his message about how much he "learned". I would have expected the powers that be to send their own message that his behavior was intolerable and could not be overlooked.

[Gruder]

I'm from Indy I'll bet you can figure out who my team is!

I, too, am a Bengals fan. :001_tongu

[Kratos]

Well, as for seeking employment he was supposed to be banned indefinitely from the NFL. At least one dogfighting charge was dropped as well. We need to stop treating these athletes and stars like demigods. It's getting more and more ridiculous with each passing year. That's part of the reason I don't care to follow pro sports, namely the NFL and NBA. Both are full of whining primadonnas.

[Monkeydad]

While what he did was disgusting and could've been punished even more harshly...it's up to the teams (employers) to give him a job. We're still (hopefully) in a capitalist nation where companies can make their own decisions on how to make a profit and not be ordered around by courts and the Government.

If one of us did this, would we have a job waiting for us when we came back? Most likely, NO. Vick actually didn't, the Falcons released (fired) him.

If we were a great salesman and the company valued you for that reason, they might hire you back after your served your time or you could get a job with another company in your field because of your experience and expertise.

So I detest the man in every way and don't even feel he's a good QB (great athlete, poor QB, look at his passing stats!). However, he did serve his time and the teams can weigh the risks and hire him back if they want. We don't want the Government to start telling our sports teams what they can or can't do. Leonard Little drove drunk and killed a person...then had ANOTHER DUI after it...and still plays football without anyone complaining. Do you want banned from your field completely for an unrelated crime you served time for? If you're an accountant, do you want banned from using Peachtree for traffic violations? No, I'm not comparing murdering animals to tickets...but the crime didn't have anything to do with football either.

We're also all forgetting, the Feds brought him to court on charges of running an organized gambling ring, he was NOT sentenced for the dog fighting. So the 2 years could be right for the crime.

Goodell's suspension is fine. Would I complain if he were banned from the NFL forever...absolutely not, but really, he should be allowed to seek employment again. If no one wants him, he earned it.

As a Redskins fan, I'm happy that he'll be destroying the Eagles this season and not my team. The fans will turn on him quick and severely WHEN he doesn't play up to his promises of "I can still run as fast and throw as far and I work out now, I never did before...". If he does perform well, the fans will begin their annual "throw McNabb outta town" campaign and distract the team. Philly is a huge dogfighting venue too, so he's going to be expected to do that much more "I'm sorry, don't dogfight, kids" campaigning. Then of course, there is the clash of the circus freaks: PETA vs. Philly fans.

It's going to be a disaster for the team. :biggrin:

[JBLAZE725]

I don't see how people can separate what he did from what he does on the field. They may have nothing to do with eachother, but I can't root for a guy that has done these things. If Charles Manson was the best football player in the world I still wouldn't want him on my team.

[Baloosh]

If Charles Manson was the best football player in the world I still wouldn't want him on my team.

Ok... let's take a step back.

Charles Manson went to jail for the orchestrating the murder of 7 people.

Michael Vick went to jail for operating a gambling ring, and he admitted to orchestrating the murder of numerous pit bulls.

Both are heinous acts, but one is VASTLY different from the other. That is, only if you value human life above a dog's life.

(Note that it is possible to value *all* life, and the two are not mutually exclusive)

[Obsessed]

If Charles Manson was the best football player in the world I still wouldn't want him on my team.

I didn't know he played. He was on the Raiders, I presume? :tongue:

[ClubmanRob]

No Marvin I don't know of any cases of average Joe's who committed the atrocities that Vick committed so I can't say whether two (roughly) years was reasonable or not.

Two years in jail is more than most would have received for something similar.

In Fayetteville back about five or six years ago, a group of soldiers out barbecuing picked up a stray kitten that wandered into the backyard they were in and they thought it would be really funny to throw it on the grill and put the top back on until the cat burned to death. They were standing around laughing saying "I like mine extra crispy!" and "Burn that ***ker!" while the kitten struggled in vain to free itself.

An elderly neighbor next door heard the commotion and saw what was going on and came over and rescued the kitten. The cat lived, but was badly burned and in indescribable pain. Dubbed "Boo Boo Kitty" by the animal rescue squad, he was later adopted by the hospital that saved him. He's fine now, and I see him each time I take my cat in for her shots. (He's a very fat kitty and very well loved). :smile:

Guess what happened to the fine young men who represent our country and should be looked at as a symbol of respect and decency? Not a damn thing. No one was charged, and only the home owner was even investigated. The elderly man who actually saw the crime passed away before the investigation began, so the MP's claimed that with no eye witnesses, there couldn't be any charges. The homeowner was later discharged from the army for an unrelated offense (again, though it was determined that he physically abused his children, no charges were filed- just a discharge). The "official" reason for his discharge was for all the other decayed animals that he decorated his yard with.

In fact, one of the soldiers involved now heads up the local Jaycees. Like most crimes that happen on on that base that involve pet or child abuse, it was swept under the rug and all but forgotten.

It's pretty clear that many people out there look at animals as mere objects. I draw parallels between the soldiers here and Michael Vick, because even though they should be setting a better example, they're pretty much nothing more than roving psychopaths in my eyes, and they got off way too light for the crimes that they committed.

[Kratos]

Good bad story Rob. Stallworth killed somebody, and got less than a slap on the wrist. Irving was caught with cocaine and hookers, and he didn't even do any time. It seems pretty light, but he pled out, and they dropped a charge or two. The maximum he could have gotten was 10 years, from what I have read. 18 months does seem a bit light for a felony, but oh well.

I don't place the same value on dogs as people, but killing out of cruelty is messed up either way. Like I said, if you think it's ok to run your own little Coliseum with dogs, you have some problems.

EDIT: here's a link with some sentences for average joes. I don't think it's typical, but they didn't get off as easy as Vick.

http://www.hsus.org/acf/news/dogfighter_gets_102_year_sentence.html

[JBLAZE725]

Ok... let's take a step back.

Charles Manson went to jail for the orchestrating the murder of 7 people.

Michael Vick went to jail for operating a gambling ring, and he admitted to orchestrating the murder of numerous pit bulls.

Both are heinous acts, but one is VASTLY different from the other. That is, only if you value human life above a dog's life.

(Note that it is possible to value *all* life, and the two are not mutually exclusive)

It was obviously an example, not meant to be equal. I didn't think I had to explain that. My point is just because he's good at football doesn't mean he should be let off for committing such acts or that people should be looking forward to seeing him despite them. I think it's pretty sad personally, but that's just my opinion.

[Baloosh]

It was obviously an example, not meant to be equal. I didn't think I had to explain that. My point is just because he's good at football doesn't mean he should be let off for committing such acts or that people should be looking forward to seeing him despite them. I think it's pretty sad personally, but that's just my opinion.

It came across (to me at least) as a direct comparison. Sorry if I interpreted it wrong.

And on a side note, I completely agree with you.

[marvin100]

Interesting:

http://theconversation.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/michael-vicks-apology/?ref=opinion

[bishop]

Although they aren't comparable in terms of heinous acts, Vick is much like Favre, in that neither should be playing anymore. Vick, because people can't seem to view a pro athlete as anything other than a demigod (and what of the suspension?), and Favre, because...well, I think that was probably all covered the last time he came out of retirement. :rolleyes:

[FreezerBurns]

Interesting:

http://theconversation.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/michael-vicks-apology/?ref=opinion

"Vick's an Eagle, hide your beagle." :lol: That's awesome.

Anyway, the article is a nice opinion but I'm not sure that cruelty to pigs has anything to do at all with Vick playing in the NFL. Seems like a separate issue to me.

[JBLAZE725]

It came across (to me at least) as a direct comparison. Sorry if I interpreted it wrong.

And on a side note, I completely agree with you.

No problem. This is a sensitive subject for me being an animal, and especially dog, lover and I've seen numerous people treat Vick like all he did was step on an ant. He was responsible for the killing of over 100 dogs and people act like the most important thing is that he is back playing football. I really don't get it. The fact that my favorite tean just happened to be the idiots to pick him up is just salt on the wound. I really hoped no team would pick him up and show that they had some morals though I knew better. Truth be told as good as he is athletically, I still believe he is a mediocre QB. Great at running, strong arm, but bad accuracy, decision-making, and piss-poor ability to read defenses.