What are your opinions on the Imperial system?

[mretzloff]

I am talking about the Imperial system of measuring. What are your opinions on it? Should the US finally switch?

I think so. The Imperial system is so awkward with it's numbers. For example, 12 inches is a foot, 5280 feet is a mile, etc. The metric system is so much easier. My only gripe is that the metric system jumps from centimeters to meters. I feel there should be something there. I also think there needs to be something larger than the liter.

Your thoughts?

[luvmysuper]

I agree with you 100%. The US and a small country in Africa are the only ones who use the system, and yet we have the audacity to call it "Standard".

Same goes for cell phone frequency and 110VAC vs 220VAC.

[Robxcarlson]

I get confused dealing with metric equivalents - but only because I'm not familiar with them... I wouldn't oppose switching to the metric system - but I think some people would view it as a conspiracy...

[Nils]

I am talking about the Imperial system of measuring. What are your opinions on it? Should the US finally switch?

I think so. The Imperial system is so awkward with it's numbers. For example, 12 inches is a foot, 5280 feet is a mile, etc. The metric system is so much easier. My only gripe is that the metric system jumps from centimeters to meters. I feel there should be something there. I also think there needs to be something larger than the liter.

Your thoughts?


There is something in both cases: In Germany we have the "decimeter" (10 cm), but it is very rarely used. The "Hektoliter" (100 litres) is very common, however.

[sparkchaser]

I am talking about the Imperial system of measuring. What are your opinions on it? Should the US finally switch?

I think so. The Imperial system is so awkward with it's numbers. For example, 12 inches is a foot, 5280 feet is a mile, etc. The metric system is so much easier. My only gripe is that the metric system jumps from centimeters to meters. I feel there should be something there. I also think there needs to be something larger than the liter.

Your thoughts?

There is. It's called a decimeter.

Want something larger than a liter? Decaliter.

[sparkchaser]

It's a moot point.

The Imperial system is the gentlemanly system. It's what Holmes used!

[professorchaos]

Nope, no switch. That the rest of the world uses something else isn't a sufficient reason. Should we also switch to Mandarin Chinese because it is the most spoken language in the world? Or should UK drivers start driving on the other side of the road because that is how most of the world does it? There is nothing inherently wrong with the Imperial system, nor is there anything wrong about measuring things differently.

I barely recall the last effort back in the 70s. Not exactly a resounding success. Practically speaking, I suspect that the majority of Americans are entirely comfortable and would view the change as needless trauma.

[mretzloff]

I suspect that the majority of Americans are entirely comfortable and would view the change as needless trauma.

True, but they would only see it as a needless trauma because they do not know that many things are already measured in the metric system. Drinks are a perfect example.

[Kratos]

The metric system make a lot more sense, bottom line. Many people don't even know how many feet are in a mile, or yards, for that matter. Pints, quarts, cups? Huh? Then you have bushels and pecks and whatnot. Furlongs, fathoms, most people have no clue. And forget about knowing how to convert anything. Math! And thought! Ewwww!

[mretzloff]

Pints, quarts, cups?

If you would cook, you would know :tongue: :biggrin:

[mretzloff]

There is something in both cases: In Germany we have the "decimeter" (10 cm), but it is very rarely used. The "Hektoliter" (100 litres) is very common, however.

What is measured in hektoliters? I was born in Germany, visit once a year, and have never heard about it before. Then again, it took me forever to finally learn what "z.B." stands for :rolleyes:

[ClubmanRob]

As someone who uses both all day long, side by side, ad redundancy :biggrin:, I still don't want America to give up what makes us unique in the civilized world. Even though it would make my life and job a million times easier.

[Kratos]

If you would cook, you would know :tongue: :biggrin:

True, but some people's idea of cooking is boiling Ramen.

[blantyre]

Be careful what you wish for! I lived in the UK when the metric system was forced on an unwilling public by the EU (or EEC as it then was). It meant about 4 types of threads that all needed their own wrench set and were completely incompatible, water pipe that was 1/2" became 12 or 13 mm and did not quite fit, so you needed an adapter. Stoves, fridges, cabinets, timber, etc/ became some new size that did not quite fit with anything Imperial - like kitchens. All scales and food packaging had to be changed. In short, it was hell. I don't know if anyone ever tried to estimate the cost and lost productivity but it must have been enormous. I have little doubt that some inside group pressed for it and made a fortune providing services needed to come into compliance with the new rules. A bureaucrat's paradise, a public nightmare.

While we are at it, let's change all our voltages, frequencies, telephone standards and start driving on the left. At least HDTV was real progress, changing to metric would just be a PITA IMO.

[garyg]

And for "switching" the US gets what exactly? Will some Metric Authority send new sockets for the socket wrenches, as well as new bolt heads for everything I own? No, wait, I need a new socket set because mine is 1/4, or 1/2 or 3/4 . Wait, I got to replace me cookbooks? IMHO only, anyone who is spending time promoting standardization should take up wet shaving, or something useful (kmrra) ..

Granted the metric is simpler, so can be more easily grasped by simpler people, but, seems like a huge waste of resources to change the definition of how far? when the country is already reeling in economic pain.

[DirtyDave]

As Kathy Shaidle (http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/)likes to say: 'cuz metric is for sissies.

[ogopogo]

I am talking about the Imperial system of measuring. What are your opinions on it? Should the US finally switch?
It is ridiculously outdated, and doesn't make one bit of sense. We should've switched a long time ago. But I guess it could be worst. We could still be using "hogshead".

[Kratos]

I'm not advocating switching, it would be a logistical disaster. That doesn't change the fact that metric is way more logical, and a too-large portion of the population isn't even proficient in Imperial measures.

[ogopogo]

The Imperial system is the gentlemanly system. It's what Holmes used!
Except that his pint is 4oz more than our pint.

[Doc4]

How sad and ironic that the English Measurements, often called "Imperial" once the British Empire really got going in the latter 19th century, is now used NOT by the English or their ex-empire Commomwealth, but by that saucy band of rebellious colonists who think proper tea is made with Boston harbour water. :001_rolle

Metric proponents always trumpet how metric is "easier" ... wait for 2-blade metric, and then 3-blade, 4-blade metric with a battery inserted so it vibrates on your face ...

Metric is easier? Meh. English measurments "make sense". What's an inch? It's about the width of your (rule of) thumb. How long is a foot? About the length of your foot. Cup-pint-quart-gallon ... all make sense and are usefull (meaning you will use a pint or quart or whatever of something) where metric really gives us nothing between a millilitre and the litre. Metric was made up by some math geek who lived in whatever the 18th Century equivalent of his parent's basement and liked re-reading Voltaire's "Ocean Trek" ... to boldly sail where no man has sailed before ...

The English system evolved over centuries of real people in real live needing real units of measurement that they could actually use for daily life.

[gollum83]

Be careful what you wish for! I lived in the UK when the metric system was forced on an unwilling public by the EU (or EEC as it then was). It meant about 4 types of threads that all needed their own wrench set and were completely incompatible, water pipe that was 1/2" became 12 or 13 mm and did not quite fit, so you needed an adapter. Stoves, fridges, cabinets, timber, etc/ became some new size that did not quite fit with anything Imperial - like kitchens. All scales and food packaging had to be changed. In short, it was hell. I don't know if anyone ever tried to estimate the cost and lost productivity but it must have been enormous. I have little doubt that some inside group pressed for it and made a fortune providing services needed to come into compliance with the new rules. A bureaucrat's paradise, a public nightmare.

While we are at it, let's change all our voltages, frequencies, telephone standards and start driving on the left. At least HDTV was real progress, changing to metric would just be a PITA IMO.

I understand what you're saying, but I've already seen more than my share of metric bolts, nuts and other items here in the US. so I think that argument against is pretty much moot. Besides if you ask me there is really no good reason not to make the switch to metric.

[Captain Flint]

I have only one thing to say to all you Imperial system lovers out there: SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST ! :lol:
You'll see in a couple of years...

[luvmysuper]

I don't think the OP was suggesting forming a Presidential Committee to begin the change over of an American way of life.
I don't think we should change our system, but I do think Imperial or Standard is a bit dopey.
Our monetary system is as close to Metric as any of us will ever see in this country.

[Rughi]

I wish we really did have the Imperial system it has

:w00t::w00t:4 BONUS OUNCES IN EVERY BEER!!!:w00t::w00t:

[ogopogo]

You guys remember The Mars Polar Lander? Millions of dollars and man hours were lost because some guy at Lockheed goofed and used the English system when JPL and everyone else involved was using the standard metric system.

[Phog Allen]

How sad and ironic that the English Measurements, often called "Imperial" once the British Empire really got going in the latter 19th century, is now used NOT by the English or their ex-empire Commomwealth, but by that saucy band of rebellious colonists who think proper tea is made with Boston harbour water. :001_rolle

Metric proponents always trumpet how metric is "easier" ... wait for 2-blade metric, and then 3-blade, 4-blade metric with a battery inserted so it vibrates on your face ...

Metric is easier? Meh. English measurments "make sense". What's an inch? It's about the width of your (rule of) thumb. How long is a foot? About the length of your foot. Cup-pint-quart-gallon ... all make sense and are usefull (meaning you will use a pint or quart or whatever of something) where metric really gives us nothing between a millilitre and the litre. Metric was made up by some math geek who lived in whatever the 18th Century equivalent of his parent's basement and liked re-reading Voltaire's "Ocean Trek" ... to boldly sail where no man has sailed before ...

The English system evolved over centuries of real people in real live needing real units of measurement that they could actually use for daily life.

Well said laddie. I am a traditionalist too. I can use the metric system and fully get it that it makes some things a lot easier. Heck, our American dollar system is metric and most people don't even realise they use it every day. Simple it is; 1 cent(millimetre) x 10 = 1 dime(centimetre) x 10 = 1 dollar(decilitre) and so on. There are certain things that only make sense when referred to by the Imperial system. What do you order at pub? A pint. Not a ruddy "600ml please." If you visited Ascot or our Churchill Downs how arse headed would it sound if you were listening to the announcer and he said the horses had just passed a certain metre length rather than x amount of furlongs? The trouble with the metric system is that it is sterile sounding. Fine for surgeons and anaesthetists who measure things to the nth degree or space machines but not for drink and food. I will admit that with baking, weighing your ingredients is always better than volume and metric can be more accurate there as well. Overall I am happy to use a blend of both.

Regards, Todd

[ClubmanRob]

“The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!”

[garyg]

And for "switching" the US gets what exactly? Will some Metric Authority send new sockets for the socket wrenches, as well as new bolt heads for everything I own? No, wait, I need a new socket set because mine is 1/4, or 1/2 or 3/4 . Wait, I got to replace me cookbooks? IMHO only, anyone who is spending time promoting standardization should take up wet shaving, or something useful (kmrra) ..

Granted the metric is simpler, so can be more easily grasped by simpler people, but, seems like a huge waste of resources to change the definition of how far? when the country is already reeling in economic pain.

[gollum83]

And for "switching" the US gets what exactly? Will some Metric Authority send new sockets for the socket wrenches, as well as new bolt heads for everything I own? No, wait, I need a new socket set because mine is 1/4, or 1/2 or 3/4 . Wait, I got to replace me cookbooks? IMHO only, anyone who is spending time promoting standardization should take up wet shaving, or something useful (kmrra) ..

Granted the metric is simpler, so can be more easily grasped by simpler people, but, seems like a huge waste of resources to change the definition of how far? when the country is already reeling in economic pain.

Grasped by simpler people? Yeah, that precisely why it's so widely used by scientists and engineers the world round... :glare:

[luvmysuper]

Grasped by simpler people? Yeah, that precisely why it's so widely used by scientists and engineers the world round... :glare:

Wow. That was definitive and precise. Just like the metric system!!

[ogopogo]

We already use the metric system everyday anyway. In the watch forum thread when case size is mentioned is in mm. WR is in meters. The domestic auto industry uses it as well.
When you walk in into a Ford dealer to test drive the Mustang, you don't ask to see the 305, you want is the 5.0. And that F-150 has a 5.4 V8, not a 329.

[Alacrity59]

Just note please if nobody has said it already. The US measurements are different than Imperial measurements. Imperial Gallons and pints etc. are larger than the US measure of the same name for example. The only preference I have is that I like degrees Fahrenheit. When temperatures are given in whole numbers it is more precise than Celsius.

Let's go to the local British pub and have a pint.

[ogopogo]

Let's go to the local British pub and have a pint.

Sounds good :a17: especially since in the British pub your pint has 4 more ounces than our pint.

[Bertilak]

Nope, no switch. That the rest of the world uses something else isn't a sufficient reason. Should we also switch to Mandarin Chinese because it is the most spoken language in the world? Or should UK drivers start driving on the other side of the road because that is how most of the world does it? There is nothing inherently wrong with the Imperial system, nor is there anything wrong about measuring things differently.

I barely recall the last effort back in the 70s. Not exactly a resounding success. Practically speaking, I suspect that the majority of Americans are entirely comfortable and would view the change as needless trauma.

What he said. All of it.

[curtis909]

I am talking about the Imperial system of measuring. What are your opinions on it? Should the US finally switch?

I think so. The Imperial system is so awkward with it's numbers. For example, 12 inches is a foot, 5280 feet is a mile, etc. The metric system is so much easier. My only gripe is that the metric system jumps from centimeters to meters. I feel there should be something there. I also think there needs to be something larger than the liter.

Your thoughts?

i agree yet i dont think we will ever switch... heck spanish will be the native tongue before we go metric...:biggrin:

[Bertilak]

How sad and ironic that the English Measurements, often called "Imperial" once the British Empire really got going in the latter 19th century, is now used NOT by the English or their ex-empire Commomwealth, but by that saucy band of rebellious colonists who think proper tea is made with Boston harbour water. :001_rolle

Metric proponents always trumpet how metric is "easier" ... wait for 2-blade metric, and then 3-blade, 4-blade metric with a battery inserted so it vibrates on your face ...

Metric is easier? Meh. English measurments "make sense". What's an inch? It's about the width of your (rule of) thumb. How long is a foot? About the length of your foot. Cup-pint-quart-gallon ... all make sense and are usefull (meaning you will use a pint or quart or whatever of something) where metric really gives us nothing between a millilitre and the litre. Metric was made up by some math geek who lived in whatever the 18th Century equivalent of his parent's basement and liked re-reading Voltaire's "Ocean Trek" ... to boldly sail where no man has sailed before ...

The English system evolved over centuries of real people in real live needing real units of measurement that they could actually use for daily life.

Another post to which I must respond:

What he said. all of it.

[luvmysuper]

i agree yet i dont think we will ever switch... heck spanish will be the native tongue before we go metric...:biggrin:

Have you been to a Walmart or a Home Depot lately? It already is.

[professorchaos]

True, but they would only see it as a needless trauma because they do not know that many things are already measured in the metric system. Drinks are a perfect example.

Agreed. When I was a chef, I had to overcome my Imperial inertia and become comfortable with elements of the metric system. To elaborate on my hasty post earlier, perhaps we have sufficiently adopted the metric system? Doc4's and other's posts really rang true with me. The Imperial system has much more meaning and character. Sure, the metric system is logical and easy to use (allegedly). But it is also painfully sterile.

Also, if the USA changed to the metric system, would Denver become "The 1.609344 Kilometers High City?"

[The Nid Hog]

I don't think that we should begin to bow to the relentless pressure of foreign interests. You know what they say: give 'em 2.5 cm and they'll want 1609 meters.

[tlanning]

I don't think that we should begin to bow to the relentless pressure of foreign interests. You know what they say: give 'em 2.5 cm and they'll want 1609 meters.

:biggrin: Thats funny! Sorta a good idea to have a working knowledge of both. (especially younger people like me) All I know is that for the first 3 years of my career I never could figure out how to convert Celsius to Fahrenheit the only acurate way I could describe the weather at that time in my letters home was HOT and wet! :001_smile

[Brodirt]

Why not toss the fork for chop sticks while we're at it?

Seriously, why bother making an official change? Where I need to know the conversion I do...kilograms/lbs. 1/2.2, miles/kilometers 1/1.6, or k/5 x3; c/f -32, c/1.8.

I can live with both the metric and imperial system mis en place.

[joto]

I fully support a change to the metric system. It would immeasurably simplify any number of things. The system is logical and easily convertible. The Imperial system has little if any logical relationships between its units, and is the cause of certain accidents as the result of conversion errors, not the least of which was the Mars Climate Orbiter, ruined on landing by a mix-up in the systems.

The Imperial tradition does have more 'personality,' if you will, but it is much more arbitrary and error prone (conversion errors) than metric.

Then again, people are tough to convince to change- better the devil they know than the devil they don't. As Grandpa Simpson said, "My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!!" Good luck making this change.

[RazorDingo]

I am talking about the Imperial system of measuring. What are your opinions on it? Should the US finally switch?

First, you ought to understand that the US has NEVER used the "Imperial" system of weights and measurements. These were only used in Britain and the British Empire (and then Commonwealth.)

The "Imperial" gallon and bushel (to cite but two examples) were actually larger than the gallons and bushels used in the United States. The "Imperial" gallon being almost 20% larger. The fact that there was a difference between the "Imperial" and the US gallon ought to give you a pretty strong hint as to why scientists and engineers generally prefer the SI (or metric) system.

The system of weight and measures in use in the United States is properly termed "United States Customary" - rather than "Imperial" - which is only proper, us being a Republic and all.

The United States is generally already more "metric" than most people realize. Commercial aircraft and computers, for example, are generally designed and engineered using metric specifications. But to give you but one example of the curious "hybrid" nature of weights and measurements in this country: The US Navy actually uses a Kiloyard (one thousand yards) as a unit of distance in plotting sonar tracks and torpedo solutions.

[luvmysuper]

First, you ought to understand that the US has NEVER used the "Imperial" system of weights and measurements. These were only used in Britain and the British Empire (and then Commonwealth.)

The "Imperial" gallon and bushel (to cite but two examples) were actually larger than the gallons and bushels used in the United States. The "Imperial" gallon being almost 20% larger. The fact that there was a difference between the "Imperial" and the US gallon ought to give you a pretty strong hint as to why scientists and engineers generally prefer the SI (or metric) system.

The system of weight and measures in use in the United States is properly termed "United States Customary" - rather than "Imperial" - which is only proper, us being a Republic and all.

The United States is generally already more "metric" than most people realize. Commercial aircraft and computers, for example, are generally designed and engineered using metric specifications. But to give you but one example of the curious "hybrid" nature of weights and measurements in this country: The US Navy actually uses a Kiloyard (one thousand yards) as a unit of distance in plotting sonar tracks and torpedo solutions.

And a Nautical Mile is 2 kiloyards.

[Kirenaaz]

The mass of an electron: 9.10938188e-31 kg
Speed of acceleration due to gravity: 9.80665 m/s^2
Volume of ethanol in a 750mL bottle of Vodka: 300mL
Optimal temperature for a room in Canada: 22C

The only measurement that presents a real problem in SI is time. "The second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom," which is all well and good, except it still leaves us with the messy conversions for time 1day=24hr=1440min=86400s.

A move to SI may make for 30 hour days with 48 minute hours or a complete abandonment of the hour day and a move to a radian(360°=2π, 12hr=1π) or a grad(360°=400grad, 100grad=8hours) day.

Then again, if the US switched to SI, I wouldn't be able to tell them that 12 degrees is shorts weather and watch them shiver thinking about it. :lol:

[scoof]

Cup-pint-quart-gallon ... all make sense and are usefull (meaning you will use a pint or quart or whatever of something) where metric really gives us nothing between a millilitre and the litre.

Deciliter measurements are very common in Danish recipes/kitchens.

[Captain Flint]

Deciliter measurements are very common in Danish recipes/kitchens.

Same thing in other European countries like France and Portugal. And the centilitre (or centiliter) is the most common measure unity for drinks.

[rickw]

And a Nautical Mile is 2 kiloyards.

Close. It is 6080 feet.

The English, Irish and Scots were using a mixed system the last time that I was in those countries. They still used pints and drams in the pubs. It would be expensive to change out all of the glassware.

[English]

I understand what you're saying, but I've already seen more than my share of metric bolts, nuts and other items here in the US. so I think that argument against is pretty much moot. Besides if you ask me there is really no good reason not to make the switch to metric.

I don't think you have a any idea what he is saying.

If you change tomorrow, for the rest of your lifetime, nothing will ever fit properly. Your shoes, your clothes, your doors, your plumbing. You will have to have two sets of rulers and tapes in your tool box, two sets of sockets and spanners. As your kids grow up, they will quote metric statistics to you and you won't have a clue what they are talking about. Your wife will go to purchase a piece of material and give up. It goes on and on and on and on. It will cost you immediate increased prices for new measuring equipment and retooling. One other thing, as time goes by, it costs you more and more. Standard replacement items become unavailable and are now a one off special bespoke item. You know, things like a floorboard, a door, a tap. Maybe even the lifts in all of your tall buildings.

Of course the benefit is you open up your market place to the whole world.
Go for it and increase American unemployment. Another inconsequential side effect.

[scoof]

Close. It is 6080 feet.

Actually, 6076.12.

While it is spot on in metric: 1852 meters :smile:


The English, Irish and Scots were using a mixed system the last time that I was in those countries. They still used pints and drams in the pubs. It would be expensive to change out all of the glassware.

We also use pints in Denmark. I don't think that will ever go away.

[English]

Close. It is 6080 feet.

The English, Irish and Scots were using a mixed system the last time that I was in those countries. They still used pints and drams in the pubs. It would be expensive to change out all of the glassware.

Actually. most of the pubs are closing, because the breweries who own them can not make enough money to sustain them. Last I heard closures were running at 70 per month.

But they had already changed the glasses to hold metric measure. They just choose to measure a pint into the metric glass. Again another example of if you change things won't fit. The glass always looks empty or as if somebody already took a drink out of it. But the glasses probably came from France or Poland and the English glass factory went out of business years ago. Couldn't afford the retooling costs. It was still paying the bank loans from the previous retooling exercise for some other legislation.

[pastafarian]

The mass of an electron: 9.10938188e-31 kg
Speed of acceleration due to gravity: 9.80665 m/s^2
Volume of ethanol in a 750mL bottle of Vodka: 300mL
Optimal temperature for a room in Canada: 22C

The only measurement that presents a real problem in SI is time. "The second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom," which is all well and good, except it still leaves us with the messy conversions for time 1day=24hr=1440min=86400s.

Surely the most troublesome SI unit is mass as it has no independently measurable basis, it is just measured against a standard kilogram in France.

I like the metric system, but Britain tends to use a mixed system. I usually think in metric, except for car travel and beer. This does make it tricky if I am told that I need 3lb of something or that it is 80 degrees outside, but I also confuse others if I give my weight in kg. I would be for Britain taking the plunge and converting all road sign to kilometres, we would get used to it (and it would annoy tories, which is always fun).

For science and engineering though, metric is really the only way. It eliminates the need for constants in a huge number of equations.

So, I think the US should join us with metric. Once you go SI, you won't say bye.

I also think they should do all weather reports in kelvin.

[Nils]

Of course the benefit is you open up your market place to the whole world.
Go for it and increase American unemployment. Another inconsequential side effect.

Well, at the moment American Companies are perfectly capable of producing goods for metric markets, the same way European and Asian companies are capable of producing goods measuring by feet and inches for the American and British markets.
I think your being a bit dramatic here.
Btw, I don't see why the US (or Great Britain for that matter) should adopt the metric system if they are happy with the imperial system

[gollum83]

I don't think you have a any idea what he is saying.

If you change tomorrow, for the rest of your lifetime, nothing will ever fit properly. Your shoes, your clothes, your doors, your plumbing. You will have to have two sets of rulers and tapes in your tool box, two sets of sockets and spanners. As your kids grow up, they will quote metric statistics to you and you won't have a clue what they are talking about. Your wife will go to purchase a piece of material and give up. It goes on and on and on and on. It will cost you immediate increased prices for new measuring equipment and retooling. One other thing, as time goes by, it costs you more and more. Standard replacement items become unavailable and are now a one off special bespoke item. You know, things like a floorboard, a door, a tap. Maybe even the lifts in all of your tall buildings.

Of course the benefit is you open up your market place to the whole world.
Go for it and increase American unemployment. Another inconsequential side effect.

You don't think I have any idea what he is saying? Really? Because I don't think you have any idea what I am saying. But then again if you are going to be that way about it, I am not going to waste my time talk to you because, honestly, I think all you're trying to do is get a rise out of me just so you can feel some misplaced feeling of superiority because you seem to think you know more about such matters than I. Well guess what? It is not going to work. I joined in this thread looking for a civil discussion, nothing more, nothing less. If we can't do that, then I am done here. Good day! :001_smile

[ratcheer]

I guess I am hopelessly old-fashioned. I prefer our current system. And it is not due to unfamiliarity with the metric system. I spent four years in engineering and science at Ga Tech and became thoroughly immersed in the metric system.

Tim

[RazorDingo]

Surely the most troublesome SI unit is mass as it has no independently measurable basis, it is just measured against a standard kilogram in France.

The original standard for a Gram was that it was the weight of 1 cubic centimeter of water, measured at freezing temperature. Therefore the Kilogram is equivalent to the weight of 1000 ccs - or one litre - of water. The current International Standard kilogram is derived from this original standard.

Just as the Meter (the basis of virtually all SI measurements) was originally defined as one ten millionth of the distance from the North Pole to the Equator, so do virtually all SI measurements have some scientific, rational, "real world" standard that they are based upon.

Proponents of "old style" measurements (foot, yard) like to cite the similarity between such standards and those of humans: A foot being approximately the length of a human foot. But given the tremendous variation in human physionomy, such approximatations soon become worthless. There is no consistent manner for scientist operating independently to recreate their own standard inch.

Obviously as Metrology as a science has improved, we have modified the original SI standards to account for variables that may not have been apparent to the first proponents of the units. But make no mistake - every SI unit has a "real world" basis.

[Phog Allen]

First, you ought to understand that the US has NEVER used the "Imperial" system of weights and measurements. These were only used in Britain and the British Empire (and then Commonwealth.)

The "Imperial" gallon and bushel (to cite but two examples) were actually larger than the gallons and bushels used in the United States. The "Imperial" gallon being almost 20% larger. The fact that there was a difference between the "Imperial" and the US gallon ought to give you a pretty strong hint as to why scientists and engineers generally prefer the SI (or metric) system.

The system of weight and measures in use in the United States is properly termed "United States Customary" - rather than "Imperial" - which is only proper, us being a Republic and all.

The United States is generally already more "metric" than most people realize. Commercial aircraft and computers, for example, are generally designed and engineered using metric specifications. But to give you but one example of the curious "hybrid" nature of weights and measurements in this country: The US Navy actually uses a Kiloyard (one thousand yards) as a unit of distance in plotting sonar tracks and torpedo solutions.

Agreed but a quick perusal of wikipedia shows a tremendous amount of overalpping. Particularly at the time of American independence. I didn't realise the Imperial weights and measures act was implemented in 1824. I would have though it was much earlier. Before that, America and England share almost all measurements. It is a neat read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measur ement_systems

Regards, Todd

[ginantonix]

I don't think you have a any idea what he is saying.

If you change tomorrow, for the rest of your lifetime, nothing will ever fit properly. Your shoes, your clothes, your doors, your plumbing. You will have to have two sets of rulers and tapes in your tool box, two sets of sockets and spanners. As your kids grow up, they will quote metric statistics to you and you won't have a clue what they are talking about. Your wife will go to purchase a piece of material and give up. It goes on and on and on and on. It will cost you immediate increased prices for new measuring equipment and retooling. One other thing, as time goes by, it costs you more and more. Standard replacement items become unavailable and are now a one off special bespoke item. You know, things like a floorboard, a door, a tap. Maybe even the lifts in all of your tall buildings.

Of course the benefit is you open up your market place to the whole world.
Go for it and increase American unemployment. Another inconsequential side effect.

The flip side of this argument is that any American company wanting to export and open their sales up to THE ENTIRE WORLD MARKET, thus CREATING jobs, needs to duplicate their packaging lines for everybody else but the US market. There are an awful lot of us out here beyond your borders, you know, and we buy stuff too.

Otherwise, your main argument seems to be that the SI system is too confusing to change to. I really think you need to give your countrymen more credit, you really are smarter than that. Any country which has achieved the things yours have over the last century is certainly capable of understanding something as simple as Metric measures.

And oh yes, you really think doorknobs won't fit any more? There are doors in Britain hundreds of years old, and I have never heard massive outcries about no longer being able to find new knobs. At least not doorknobs!:001_tongu Canada switched to the Metric system in the 70s; there were the predictable wailing and gnashing of teeth, rending of garments then, too, but it was all a tempest in a teapot. The world didn't end for us, and I doubt more than a few old curmudgeons would want to change back.

[SRock]

I don't think that we should begin to bow to the relentless pressure of foreign interests. You know what they say: give 'em 2.5 cm and they'll want 1609 meters.

This! Best answer in this thread. Besides as someone who deals in metric measurements daily I think those who need to work with it do and those who don't shouldn't be forced to. Knowing both is probably an advantage to simply knowing one or the other regardless of which side you are on. However, I don't see any great advantage to officially switching as a nation.

[ginantonix]

Actually - just noticed that you're posting from England. Now I'm confused.

Really, I don't think that anyone would stop making doors to fit houses just because the measurement standard changed.

I read the Wikipedia article mentioned above. Very interesting, but made my head spin. I hadn't known that there were so many different amounts with the same name. Wet cup vs. dry cup, so many different ounces, very confusing.

My only troubles with the old imperial system come when I am using an old recipe which calls for pints or quarts, I need to find the source to see if it was US pints or Imperial. Can throw things way off. I also sometimes found it hard to tell if ounces referred to volume or weight, but didn't realize that there was a dry ounce volume and a wet ounce volume. :confused:

[Barbarian]

I want to weigh myself in 'stone.' That way I can get really fat and not gain much.

[Lynchmeister]

What is measured in hektoliters? I was born in Germany, visit once a year, and have never heard about it before. Then again, it took me forever to finally learn what "z.B." stands for :rolleyes:

Gotta love those German abbreviations! :cursing: Zum Beispiel came easy for me, but you'd think the same guy could wrap his head around bzw. Then, one day it happened. Out of the blue and at a totally inappropriate time, I just blurted out, "Beziehungsweise!"

...the looks those people gave me could've killed a yak from 200 yards (600 feet) away. :eek:

[rickw]

Actually. most of the pubs are closing, because the breweries who own them can not make enough money to sustain them. Last I heard closures were running at 70 per month.

But they had already changed the glasses to hold metric measure. They just choose to measure a pint into the metric glass. Again another example of if you change things won't fit. The glass always looks empty or as if somebody already took a drink out of it. But the glasses probably came from France or Poland and the English glass factory went out of business years ago. Couldn't afford the retooling costs. It was still paying the bank loans from the previous retooling exercise for some other legislation.

Several years ago, I ran into a group of striking French glass workers. They were striking because their jobs were moving to a new EU country that had lower taxes. I also heard that Waterford has moved some of their operations out of Ireland.

Pity about the pubs. Is part of the falloff due to taxes on beer? I remember that beer in Ireland was about half the price of England.

[pastafarian]

The original standard for a Gram was that it was the weight of 1 cubic centimeter of water, measured at freezing temperature. Therefore the Kilogram is equivalent to the weight of 1000 ccs - or one litre - of water. The current International Standard kilogram is derived from this original standard.

Just as the Meter (the basis of virtually all SI measurements) was originally defined as one ten millionth of the distance from the North Pole to the Equator, so do virtually all SI measurements have some scientific, rational, "real world" standard that they are based upon.

Proponents of "old style" measurements (foot, yard) like to cite the similarity between such standards and those of humans: A foot being approximately the length of a human foot. But given the tremendous variation in human physionomy, such approximatations soon become worthless. There is no consistent manner for scientist operating independently to recreate their own standard inch.

Obviously as Metrology as a science has improved, we have modified the original SI standards to account for variables that may not have been apparent to the first proponents of the units. But make no mistake - every SI unit has a "real world" basis.

Sorry, but the modern definition of kilogram does reference a man-made object, not a measurable natural property. (even wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram) agrees with me)

I think we may actually agree, it is sometimes tricky to tell in writing. What I mean is that the only way to measure a kilogram is using the standard kilogram, but all of the other SI base units can be measured by some other arbitrary but verifiable natural property. For example, a second is the time for an arbitrary number of caesium atoms to decay.

Also, it is worth noting that almost nobody has a foot that is a foot long.

Ps. Sorry for going off-topic. Anyone fancy a BBQ?

[English]

Well, at the moment American Companies are perfectly capable of producing goods for metric markets, the same way European and Asian companies are capable of producing goods measuring by feet and inches for the American and British markets.
I think your being a bit dramatic here.
Btw, I don't see why the US (or Great Britain for that matter) should adopt the metric system if they are happy with the imperial system

Great Britain has adopted the metric system many years ago.
We buy our gas in litres and we weigh in grammes and kilo's and we measure in metres. It's illegal in most cases not to do so. We also decimalised our currency.

I know that industry can cope. We export to survive.
In England we live with change on a daily basis. We know very well how to cope.

The point I am making is that such a big change has consequences which will bug the ordinary man for many many years. In England if you own an old house that was built before metrification, you have a big problem finding timber or window frames or doors that will fit. Yes we cope because we have brains, but don't think for one minute that it is a walk in the park, it's a pain in the backside. If you change it will add extra unforseen pressures to your life. That's my point.

Governments and big business decide these issues, not you. You will just suffer the consequences. The consequences of such a change are significant to your daily life. If it happens to you, you will understand. Until its does, to be frank, you have no idea.

Not being overdramatic, just pointing out that what sounds so simple has consequences way beyond those you would ever envisage.

[English]

You don't think I have any idea what he is saying? Really? Because I don't think you have any idea what I am saying. But then again if you are going to be that way about it, I am not going to waste my time talk to you because, honestly, I think all you're trying to do is get a rise out of me just so you can feel some misplaced feeling of superiority because you seem to think you know more about such matters than I. Well guess what? It is not going to work. I joined in this thread looking for a civil discussion, nothing more, nothing less. If we can't do that, then I am done here. Good day! :001_smile

Hey Matt,

I don't feel superior anymore. Forgive me.:wink:

[Nils]

Great Britain has adopted the metric system many years ago.
We buy our gas in litres and we weigh in grammes and kilo's and we measure in metres. It's illegal in most cases not to do so. We also decimalised our currency.

I know that industry can cope. We export to survive.
In England we live with change on a daily basis. We know very well how to cope.

The point I am making is that such a big change has consequences which will bug the ordinary man for many many years. In England if you own an old house that was built before metrification, you have a big problem finding timber or window frames or doors that will fit. Yes we cope because we have brains, but don't think for one minute that it is a walk in the park, it's a pain in the backside. If you change it will add extra unforseen pressures to your life. That's my point.

Governments and big business decide these issues, not you. You will just suffer the consequences. The consequences of such a change are significant to your daily life. If it happens to you, you will understand. Until its does, to be frank, you have no idea.

Not being overdramatic, just pointing out that what sounds so simple has consequences way beyond those you would ever envisage.

Well, I'm German, we've been metric since 1872...::wink:

[krissy]

Metric is so much easier because you deal with things in 10's, 100's, 1000's and so on. It's also far more accurate for weighing than the imperial system. There are 28 grams to the ounce. I use it all the time.

[ClubmanRob]

It's also far more accurate for weighing than the imperial system.

How so? Easier, in some ways, I can see; but a pound is 16 oz and 0.4536 kg. One US fluid ounce is 1.0408 UK fl oz and 29.574 ml. How is one more accurate than the other?

[Rughi]

The American system, and I imagine most all other pre-metric systems excelled for measuring things with the tools at hand when they were developed; in many cases the tools were one's hands.

Using a system divisible by 2 or 3 is facile to do by eye. Just like cutting a pie, you eyeball a cut down the middle, and then eyeball half or 1/3 of that to get to the right amount of slices. A system of the basic unit (a foot, a gallon, etc.) being split into 12s, 16s, 60s, or 64s all follow that logic.

Once dividing abstract things using math becomes more important than cutting things in half or thirds, then the decimal system is more facile. I have the coolest iPhone app that calculates and reports feet, inches and fractions that I really with I'd had when I was a carpenter. Doing math with different denominator fractions sucks, especially division.

So, for dividing a pie - American all the way!
And wouldn't you rather have a nice slice of pie than a sheet of paper with equations on it?

Roger

[adonnellyr]

I'm from Canada so I shouldn't voice an opinion (lest I be chastised heavily as usual), but I will say that while I personally prefer the metric system and think it just makes more sense, I still refer to my height as five-foot-eleven and my weight as 180. Those are the only things I use the imperial system for, and I'm not sure why that has stuck...

[mmack66]

The American system, and I imagine most all other pre-metric systems excelled for measuring things with the tools at hand when they were developed; in many cases the tools were one's hands.

Using a system divisible by 2 or 3 is facile to do by eye. Just like cutting a pie, you eyeball a cut down the middle, and then eyeball half or 1/3 of that to get to the right amount of slices. A system of the basic unit (a foot, a gallon, etc.) being split into 12s, 16s, 60s, or 64s all follow that logic.

Once dividing abstract things using math becomes more important than cutting things in half or thirds, then the decimal system is more facile. I have the coolest iPhone app that calculates and reports feet, inches and fractions that I really with I'd had when I was a carpenter. Doing math with different denominator fractions sucks, especially division.

So, for dividing a pie - American all the way!
And wouldn't you rather have a nice slice of pie than a sheet of paper with equations on it?

Roger

So you are saying that folks in countries that use the metric system utilize a different method of dividing a pie for slicing than do the Americans? Don't metric pies also contain 360 degrees of goodness? Seems like more of a geometry problem than a measurement problem.

[Rughi]

So you are saying that folks in countries that use the metric system utilize a different method of dividing a pie for slicing than do the Americans? Don't metric pies also contain 360 degrees of goodness?...

Well, no, they have 2 Pie Radians of metric goodness in a Pie. Thus a Radian is 1/2 of a Pie. And 1/2 of a Pie is good eating, no matter who you are.

[gollum83]

Hey Matt,

I don't feel superior anymore. Forgive me.:wink:

Well I may have overreacted some myself. So as along as you can forgive and forget, so can I. :001_smile

[krissy]

How so? Easier, in some ways, I can see; but a pound is 16 oz and 0.4536 kg. One US fluid ounce is 1.0408 UK fl oz and 29.574 ml. How is one more accurate than the other?

I didn't mean not accurate when using the two together. But when you need to add metric to metric. And when your thinking in all metric. And weighing smaller items especially. IMHO that is.

[SRock]

I want to weigh myself in 'stone.' That way I can get really fat and not gain much.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[pal]

Actually the US does not use the Imperial System, we use the USA Measurement System which has evolved a little differently that the Imperial system.

I don't know about you but one of the big pluses about the metric system is that you don't need fractions. I remember when I was in the fourth grade and pulling out my hair trying to learn how to add, subtract, divide and multiple fractions like 5/8 x 2/3. With the Metric System you can forget about all that headache.

Also the Metric System is simple. There are just 7 basic units which are set in multiples of 10. Where as in the USA Measurement System there are many units of measure.

I say, let's change and get it over with. It is silly for us to be on a different system than the rest of the world. It hurts commerce and causes too much confusion. Forget about national pride, it is a better and easier system.

[BrightFutur]

On the one hand: I love the metric system. I can't get enough of it. It makes sense in my mind. Water freezes at 0 and boils at 100. There are 10mm in a cm, 10 cm in a dm, 10 dm in a meter, 1000 meters in a kilometer.....

But I think that it would be impossible to pull of an imperial to metric transition that was even remotely smooth.

It's okay though, I move back to Canada in 7 days. :biggrin:

[Cmaster03]

Great Britain has adopted the metric system many years ago.
We buy our gas in litres and we weigh in grammes and kilo's and we measure in metres. It's illegal in most cases not to do so. We also decimalised our currency.

I know that industry can cope. We export to survive.
In England we live with change on a daily basis. We know very well how to cope.

The point I am making is that such a big change has consequences which will bug the ordinary man for many many years. In England if you own an old house that was built before metrification, you have a big problem finding timber or window frames or doors that will fit. Yes we cope because we have brains, but don't think for one minute that it is a walk in the park, it's a pain in the backside. If you change it will add extra unforseen pressures to your life. That's my point.

Governments and big business decide these issues, not you. You will just suffer the consequences. The consequences of such a change are significant to your daily life. If it happens to you, you will understand. Until its does, to be frank, you have no idea.

Not being overdramatic, just pointing out that what sounds so simple has consequences way beyond those you would ever envisage.

Sounds well reasoned and experienced to me. I'm fine with the system in the States we have now. We borrow from the metric system when necessary, otherwise we're delightfully anachronistic...kinda like shaving with a DE razor and badger brush. :wink:

[Lynchmeister]

Although not quite the same thing, I'm sure some of the European members (that switched to the Euro) can appreciate the magnitude of such a switch as it pertains to something that is essentially woven into the fabric of our lives.

Expanding on that, not only does the individual have to come to terms with the change on a psychological level, but so too does all of existing infrastructure. For example, cash and coin operated devices like vending machines and parking meters all need to be modified if not replaced.

I think the headache such a change would bring would be incomprehensible.

[bearbear]

For those enlgishmen that say their system "makes sense", any one raised on the SI units will say the same thing, we know what a cm is a meter etc etc.

I do feel however, that the SI units work equally well in everyday life, a standar unit is a standard unit.

i think the distinct advantage to them lies in their use in more complex calculations. being inpowers of 10s, it translates easily to mathematics.

also, for the record there is something between meter and cm, and there are things bigger than litres.
the beauty in the system lies in being able to throw any standadr unit of measurement with these prefixes. meters, grams, liters, watts, newtons, joules etc etc etc. Theres no confusion.
kilo is 1000, centi is 1/100th,
http://www.toolsforanalysis.com/DrFrankScience/MetricPrefixes.jpg

as a science major, lifes much easier working with the metric than imperial units, especially in physics and chemistry.

[rickw]

Well, I'm German, we've been metric since 1872...::wink:

The metric system has been legal in the US since Lincoln was President.

[Nils]

The metric system has been legal in the US since Lincoln was President.

I know, that's why you use miles and ounces, right?:wink:

My guess is that the US will have a creeping conversion...If I understand this thread correctly, the metric system is already widely used in the USA, especially in science, am I correct?

[DirtyDave]

At some point, slowly, very slowly we will use, if not officially convert to metric. There are lots of advantages and I don't think anyone disputes that. It's a matter of what you are used to using.

Towards the end of his career as a tool and die maker, my dad was doing all of his work in metric and he didn't have any problems converting.

Somethings I don't believe will change, as in baseball. A homer hit over the 403 mark in center field, that I understand. A home hit over the 123 meter mark in center field leaves me cold. Just lacks that bit of romance.

[Kratos]

Expanding on that, not only does the individual have to come to terms with the change on a psychological level, but so too does all of existing infrastructure. For example, cash and coin operated devices like vending machines and parking meters all need to be modified if not replaced.

I think the headache such a change would bring would be incomprehensible.

I agree it'd be a headache, but why would coin-ops and parking meters need to be replaced/modified? Metric has no effect on units of time or currency.

[rickw]

I know, that's why you use miles and ounces, right?:wink:

My guess is that the US will have a creeping conversion...If I understand this thread correctly, the metric system is already widely used in the USA, especially in science, am I correct?

I agree. Many industrial drawings are dual dimensioned. I think the biggest problem for many Americans is a mental relationship with the SI system. I know both but automatically my physical world is in the US system. I can say that my house is 3500 sq.ft. I know that this is 350 sq meters but I don't relate to the meters. I know that body temp is 37C but I generally run around 96.5F. I've done a lot of electronic testing at 125C. I can't tell you what that number is in F without converting. Liquid nitrogen is around 70 K. No idea in Fahrenheit. My car averages around 22mpg. KM /L is ? Even if I know this number, I wouldn't know if it was good or bad because I have no relationship with it. It will also be a lot of fun when engines are rated is KW for output instead of HP.

[Nils]

I know, that's why you use miles and ounces, right?:wink:

My guess is that the US will have a creeping conversion...If I understand this thread correctly, the metric system is already widely used in the USA, especially in science, am I correct?

I agree. Many industrial drawings are dual dimensioned. I think the biggest problem for many Americans is a mental relationship with the SI system. I know both but automatically my physical world is in the US system. I can say that my house is 3500 sq.ft. I know that this is 350 sq meters but I don't relate to the meters. I know that body temp is 37C but I generally run around 96.5F. I've done a lot of electronic testing at 125C. I can't tell you what that number is in F without converting. Liquid nitrogen is around 70 K. No idea in Fahrenheit. My car averages around 22mpg. KM /L is ? Even if I know this number, I wouldn't know if it was good or bad because I have no relationship with it. It will also be a lot of fun when engines are rated is KW for output instead of HP.

I know what you mean. Germany converted to KW instead of HP ages ago, but absolutely nobody uses it. I couldn't tell you for the life of me how many KW my car has...

[40_Caliber]

Just a side note. When there was a push to convert the United States to the metric system in the 1970's Sears and Roebuck started selling a "metric" cresent wrench along with a "standard" cresent. This is very funny when you think about it.

.40

[galopede]

As I'm 57 now, I was taught only the Imperial system in school (UK) but we obviously did metric arithmetic and maths.

Mt first job on leaving school was as a lab technician at a large plastics factory. All work was done in SI, measuring, weighing, shear testing and so on. I had no problems with it whatsoever as I knew the arithmetic. The actual grams, centimetres etc. didn't matter. It is a very simple system.

On the other hand, I was brought up with (proper!) pints, gallons, pounds, ounces, miles and so on and I still see things in Imperial. I can also see in metric measurements. It is all in the mind!

Mind you, here in Britain we had quite a fight with the EC about hanging onto pints for beer! Half a litre is just not quite enough!

Don't be afraid!

Gareth

[MoreSaltThanPepper]

And a Nautical Mile is 2 kiloyards.

A nautical mile is one minute of arc of Latitude (7/6 of a statute mile), which is only one example of the baby being tossed out with the bathwater.

I did not see any of my fellow Comedians, er, Canadians, admitting that, although we have been "officially" metric for about thirty years, the system has never caught on and now we have spent uncountable billions of dollars creating a totally un-necessary parallel system, which had to create measurements that are NOT "S.I." (the heck with hectares, as one sad little bumper sticker said). You go to Totem and buy plywood by the 1/2" and then mount it in its 1.2 by 2.4 metre frame. That's the part nobody gets; nothing has changed and therefore all this vaunted "oh it's base ten so it's easy" crap is totally inaccurate. Do you think it's easier to comprehend "one foot" which is about the size of your foot, or ".3048 metre"? An "acre" is one Gunter's chain by ten. Is that harder (or somehow less base ten) than a "hectare" which is 100 metres on a side? A single Gunter's chain is one standard road allowance wide. Is that harder to comprehend than "20.1168 metres"? Give your head a shake.

Now the base of the entire system, the metre, has been shown to be flawed, so all the "precise scientists" arguments are precisely hoople.

The only advantage to the system is the oil companies get to sell their crap by the litre and so get away with pricing that would have our U.S. neighbours manning another revolution. If you think I'm kidding, would you put up with waking up to a 40 cent a gallon increase, in one day? That's what ten cents a litre amounts to.


I know both but automatically my physical world is in the US system. I can say that my house is 3500 sq.ft. I know that this is 350 sq meters but I don't relate to the meters.

Except it isn't, it's 325.1606 m2, which is a perfect example of what I'm talking about, so I need to say "thanks"

Regards,

- John

[pastafarian]

Mind you, here in Britain we had quite a fight with the EC about hanging onto pints for beer! Half a litre is just not quite enough!

Those extra 68ml really do matter. However, in America a pint is roughly 440ml so they would be getting an extra 60ml.

I don't see why it matters what amount businesses sell things in*. We are adults, we can cope.

I prefer the metric system as the divisions are more logical, but neither system actually references anything in normal modern life. An acre is how much land a man with an ox can plow in a day, but the definition of a metre is the distance travelled by light in a vacuum in 1⁄299 792 458 of a second so it not really everyday either.

*Of course they still have to match the standard they claim to be using, I would be annoyed if I got 100ml of beer after ordering a pint

[ClubmanRob]

My guess is that the US will have a creeping conversion...If I understand this thread correctly, the metric system is already widely used in the USA, especially in science, am I correct?

Correct, I use the metric system on a 2 to 1 ratio at work compared to the US Imp. That's about the only place I use it.

The most frustrating thing about the metric system is when we started renaming engine sizes to correspond with liters instead of cubic inches. I'd much rather have a badass 440 than a stale 7.2l.

[dbconlin]

If you would cook, you would know :tongue: :biggrin:

My wife is an avid cook, and I help her out (and learn) a lot. Every time she needs to, e.g., double a recipe, or whatever, she has to ask me the conversions (how many cups in a quart, fl. oz. in a cup, etc).

The metric system is not only the way the rest of the world does it, but also the accepted standard in the scientific community WITHIN THE USA. Having to provide conversions within reports, documents, etc. to please various government, etc. sources that rely on them is a major PIA in my current employment. Not to mention the rounding errors that are inevitably introduced as a result.

Down with imperial, yay for metric!

[gollum83]

I know, that's why you use miles and ounces, right?:wink:

My guess is that the US will have a creeping conversion...If I understand this thread correctly, the metric system is already widely used in the USA, especially in science, am I correct?

You're correct. The sciences use metrics, or to be more correct SI units, is largely because the system itself was brought into existence by academics working in the sciences. It's widespread use in those fields really has less to do with nationality and more with the fact that those working in the fields of chemistry, physics, mathematics, and other regularly communicate about their findings to others working in those same fields worldwide and have for quite some time.


Somethings I don't believe will change, as in baseball. A homer hit over the 403 mark in center field, that I understand. A home hit over the 123 meter mark in center field leaves me cold. Just lacks that bit of romance.

Romance? It's a number. A statistic. Nothing more. You're attaching too much meaning to it, especially considering the ball traveled the same distance regardless of the units used to describe that distance.

[Chicken Enchilada]

The Imperial system blows. It's lumpy, and clumsy. I use the metric system mostly since that's what most of my hobbies use. It's simple since it's based on powers of 10, not the arbitrary lengths of some dudes body parts. Example: 11mm makes a lot more sense than 0.433070866 inches (which I can't measure on a ruler).

The switch wouldn't be hard if it was planned correctly, especially since we're already part of the way there. It'd be a pain in the ass, but not hard. Sweden switched to driving on the right, and it was a piece of cake, because they planned it well.

[Phog Allen]

As I'm 57 now, I was taught only the Imperial system in school (UK) but we obviously did metric arithmetic and maths.

Mt first job on leaving school was as a lab technician at a large plastics factory. All work was done in SI, measuring, weighing, shear testing and so on. I had no problems with it whatsoever as I knew the arithmetic. The actual grams, centimetres etc. didn't matter. It is a very simple system.

On the other hand, I was brought up with (proper!) pints, gallons, pounds, ounces, miles and so on and I still see things in Imperial. I can also see in metric measurements. It is all in the mind!

Mind you, here in Britain we had quite a fight with the EC about hanging onto pints for beer! Half a litre is just not quite enough!

Don't be afraid!

Gareth

Well Gareth, your example goes to my opinion about this as well. As some have pointed out, we use both systems here in America. It depends on what you are doing. Just like most of you chaps in the Isles. There are just certain things that sound right and go with a certain mental picture. A 2x4 wall stud just doesn't sound right as a 50x100mm. And yes for those nitpickers I realise that a 2x4 is not really a full 2x4 and that if it was the metric measurements would actually be 50.80x101.60mm. So you see, I suspect that in metric first countries, dimensional lumber is "nominally" 50mm thick. Same with pints.

As I mentioned before, I simply can't go to the local brewpub and ask for a 600ml. A pint please and lets not dally. Well, with our smaller U.S. pint I guess it wold be a 475ml nominal Or to use our ridiculous example, a 473.1765ml. I will take their word for it they pour each one EXACTLY the same as the last. I think what Gareth has pointed out is there is a time and place for each and indeed, in some instances the old ways are better. Well, at least as it applies to ale and spirit!

Regards, Todd

[dbconlin]

If you change tomorrow, for the rest of your lifetime, nothing will ever fit properly. Your shoes, your clothes, your doors, your plumbing. You will have to have two sets of rulers and tapes in your tool box, two sets of sockets and spanners.

and


Just a side note. When there was a push to convert the United States to the metric system in the 1970's Sears and Roebuck started selling a "metric" cresent wrench along with a "standard" cresent. This is very funny when you think about it.


I own both metric (in mm) and standard (in fractions of inches) crescent and socket wrench sets - because our clumsy system has not been recognized by foreign makers (of autos, e.g.).

I don't think it is funny that I ALREADY have to own BOTH.

Edited: Sorry I mistook the second post to mean an open-ended wrench, when actually the OP meant an adjustable wrench. So actually it is funny. My point was that we already have to have 2 sets here in the USA. If we switch to metric, eventually (when all the old stuff is gone) we would only need one.

[mmack66]

The reasons people are giving for America's reluctance to convert to the metric system sound an awful lot like the reasons folks give for America's reluctance to convert from another system that is in the news these days. I do agree that converting to the metric system would make a lot of stuff obsolete that would have to be replaced an no small cost.

[galopede]

in some instances the old ways are better. Well, at least as it applies to ale and spirit!

Regards, Todd

Oddly enough, here in Britain, draught beer is served in Imperial pints (or halves) whereas wine and spirits are served in millilitres!:confused:

Gareth

[Lynchmeister]

I agree it'd be a headache, but why would coin-ops and parking meters need to be replaced/modified? Metric has no effect on units of time or currency.

Good point. I guess my comparison with the Euro example didn't fit as well as I originally had thought. That or my brain farted when I was typing. :biggrin: