Vinyl LPs

[Straight Arrow]

I'm here to tell you. I have severe VLPAD. I cannot drive past a thrift store without getting a twitch. I've collected jazz, rock, and classical for over 35 years. But of late I have an unquenchable hunger and enjoyment for the genre known as space-age pop. Some call it bachelor pad music, lounge music, exotica, etc. It's the music that suave gents and their ladies listened to in the 50's and 60's while their kids were discovering Elvis and The Beatles. I love records. The satisfaction of putting diamond needle to the vinyl groove is not too far removed from the joy of putting the blade to well prepared whiskers. Think about it. I'm interested in who of you share this obsession.

[jduffy]

Dude I'm there.

I had lost touch with my audiophile side but a thread here got me all wound up. I bought a tube amplifier kit, built it. Then found a schematic for a SS amplifier and I built that from scratch. Got a Luxman preamp for a mere bag of shells and I'm in heaven.

I've been hitting a couple of thrifts looking at old vinyl but man, people take steel wool or something equally as nasty to old records. I'm stunned by the amount of scratches.

This weekend I'm going to check out a few stores around LA that should have GOOD used vinyl.

Can you name some bands or performers who made that kind of "cool" music that you're talking about. Sounds interesting! :biggrin:

[zachster]

My CD player broke down a couple of months ago, and I don't even miss it. While I haven't had time to shop for new (or used) vinyl, I'm really enjoying going through my LP collection. As soon as I have some free time, I intend to hit the used vinyl shops around town, and maybe pick up some 180g stuff over the internet.

[rtaylor61]

Having been a dj back when we actually played records, vinyl has a special place in my heart, and I own around 3,000 albums. Unfortunately, they are still in Texas while I am in Utah. I just acquired another turntable last year, but have yet to use it. I currently have about 50 albums here, but due to space limitations in my apartment, I have yet to set up my new system.

Randy

[jduffy]

You are the man for having that many albums dude.

I bow down to your vinyl superiority! :biggrin:

[rtaylor61]

You are the man for having that many albums dude.

I bow down to your vinyl superiority! :biggrin:

I'm just trying to figure out a way to move them here without spending a fortune!

Randy

[Straight Arrow]

Dude I'm there.

I had lost touch with my audiophile side but a thread here got me all wound up. I bought a tube amplifier kit, built it. Then found a schematic for a SS amplifier and I built that from scratch. Got a Luxman preamp for a mere bag of shells and I'm in heaven.

I've been hitting a couple of thrifts looking at old vinyl but man, people take steel wool or something equally as nasty to old records. I'm stunned by the amount of scratches.

This weekend I'm going to check out a few stores around LA that should have GOOD used vinyl.

Can you name some bands or performers who made that kind of "cool" music that you're talking about. Sounds interesting! :biggrin:
I have found that the condition of vinyl in thrift stores runs the gamut from unplayable to pristine. You just hafta search. Regarding the space-age pop genre, it's actually pretty broad. It's just about anything that came out between 1948 and 1972 that isn't rock, mainstream jazz, or classical. It encompasses anything from Percy Faith to Sergio Mendes. Some of my real favorites are Martin Denny, Les Baxter (hard to find), Hugo Montenegro, Lenny Dee, and almost anything on the Command Label (produced by Enoch Light). There are just too many to name. One warning: Alot of this genre is very cheesy sometimes to the point of ridiculous. The engineers and producers of the time period were enamored of the new format of stereo sound and often liked to go wild with channel separation. But let me tell you. The arrangers and performers were often top-notch and the music is a fun listen. It's not for everybody but neither is wetshaving.

[ouch]

The problem with vinyl (and, to a lesser degree, tape) is the fact that physical contact with the medium is required for playback, inevitably causing a degradation of the remaining information. Buying used records is a crapshoot, since very few people know how or have the means to clean their records properly.

Digital recordings got a bad rap early on, and not without a good deal of justification. Things are much improved since. Some companies (try Reference Recordings, for example) have made recordings that are nothing short of astounding, revealing far more nuance (as well as the expected benefits of low noise, increased dynamic range, and frequency response) than any vinyl disc could ever hope to.

One of the biggest problems facing the would be vinyl collector is the disappearance of the "phono stage" from almost all preamplifiers. A stand alone unit can easily cost over $1,000. Still, it's nice to know that there are many companies "keeping the faith" and catering to vinyl. If you already have a nice audio system, it's a treat to revisit your old vinyl, and there are some very high value turntables on the market- try Rega.

High end audio is one of the best, albeit endlessly frustrating, hobbies around.:tongue_sm

[180gVinyl]

You can guess where I stand from my login

I've got a Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck with Mentor arm and an Audio Technica AT33 cartridge as my front end. I have few CDs as they don't capture natural sound of a good vinyl pressing. It may be old fashioned to some but aren't safety razors, brushes and cream viewed that way?

Quality triumphs over convenience

[ouch]

Nobody loves the romantic notion of vinyl more than I do, but I have to suggest that you're listening to the wrong CD's. Not all vinyl is made by Mobile Fidelity, either.

For a sonic treat, try Roger Water's Amused to Death, for starters.

[James707]

I still have my entire collection of vinyl. The only music I've ever gotten rid of was my cassette tapes, because they eventually stopped working. B4 cd's I used to buy an album, play it once while I was dubbing it to cassette, then put the album away. Heck, I still have a working 8 track and those tapes lasted longer than the cassettes.

[ouch]

I still have my entire collection of vinyl. The only music I've ever gotten rid of was my cassette tapes, because they eventually stopped working. B4 cd's I used to buy an album, play it once while I was dubbing it to cassette, then put the album away. Heck, I still have a working 8 track and those tapes lasted longer than the cassettes.

Now these are the kind of albums I'd like to buy.:thumbup1:

[180gVinyl]

Nobody loves the romantic notion of vinyl more than I do, but I have to suggest that you're listening to the wrong CD's. Not all vinyl is made by Mobile Fidelity, either.

For a sonic treat, try Roger Water's Amused to Death, for starters.

Not all vinyl is made by Mobile Fidelity and an abused record will compare poorly with a CD.

However, there are still a lot of good pressings about

Take care of your records and they'll give years of pleasure.

I've remeber doing a comparison with a CD of Blue Train and an EMI pressing

The record had detail, ambience and was easy to listen to

The cymbals on the CD gave me a BBS shave:biggrin:

[GeeQue]

I have over 400 vinyls ranging from rock to jazz from the 60's 70's and 80's. Most are mint...but even as mint, you can still here some minor pops and hisses here and there. This I don't like since I'm used to the crisper sound of CDs. So I have taken some albums and recorded them to my computer and process the recording in Sound Forge. There I apply a noise reduction filter and virually all of the inherent pops and hissing is gone. Afterwards, I burn them to a CD. I don't intend to do this with all of the records...just my favorites.

[fuerein]

This is my take on it... from a decidedly non-audiophile. After reading some of this thread I looked it up some of the pros and cons. After my short research stint I would say it is honestly rather difficult to pin down one as inherently better than the other.

vinyl has the advantage that it contains the actual analog data for the audio and thus records ALL the sound. However, from what I saw you cannot record deep bass because the groove would go too deeply into the vinyl. Further the more the LP is used the more the channels are ground down from contact with the needle, thus reducing audio with each playback. Records suffer from relatively poor signal to noise ratio compared to CDs. And they are difficult to keep properly cleaned.

CDs should always play the exact same data since there is no wear on the data surface since there is no contact with the read but CDs cannot record the analog signals and thus must play digital approximations.

Personally I find the quality of CDs to be acceptable. I know people who complain about the waveform clipping inherent in digital audio but as I said I am hardly an audiophile and thus I am not seriously concerned about trying to achieve concert quality playback.

[ouch]

I know people who complain about the waveform clipping inherent in digital audio but as I said I am hardly an audiophile and thus I am not seriously concerned about trying to achieve concert quality playback.


Great post, Adam. I wonder how many folks who claim to hear wave form clipping are familiar with information theory and the works of Shannon and Nyquist.:confused:

[jazzman]

Just a few observations from collecting vinyl for about 35 years and CDs since they came out in the '80s:

Most of the vinyl I bought in high school and college (many years ago) still sounds great when played on a high quality turntable with a very good cartridge. Excellent vinyl is still available new today, but the selection is very limited. (amusicdirect.com is a good source, but there are several others.) With very few exceptions, my LPs sound much, much better than my CDs in every way--more bass, deeper bass, natural-sounding voices and instruments throughout the frequency range. And recently-made "audiophile" vinyl is better than ever.

I also have some CDs that sound terrific, but only when played through fairly expensive digital processors. I guess the bottom line is that both technologies can be good, but we should not settle for merely adequate sound. Try playing a new 180g LP on a new $350-$500 turntable, and see how good it can get!

[jduffy]

Thanks for the great advice and tips.

I didn't know that vinyl was still being pressed. It's great that it is! :biggrin:

[ouch]

There's also a tactile pleasure to be derived from using a turntable, and the warm glow of vacuum tubes on a cold winter night can't be beat!

[jduffy]

You got that right about the tubes.

It's fun to look at them and think back to Edison and De Forest.

Tubes make you feel like you're getting in touch with your electronic roots. :biggrin:

[ouch]

I get my tubes here-

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=38

A nice selection of the "good" stuff.

[jazzman]

There's also a tactile pleasure to be derived from using a turntable, and the warm glow of vacuum tubes on a cold winter night can't be beat!

The glow is a nice bonus, but I really like how they cut down on my heating bills.

Steve

[zachster]

Alright, now you've done it with this thread -- I'm spending my day looking on line for vinyl. My main source always used to be elusivedisc.com, which is still around. Does anyone know if the Fantasy Records label in Berkeley has gone kaput? They used to market a lot of classic Jazz on vinyl (though the pressings were not high end). Can't seem to find a website for them -- they seem to have been subsumed into Concord Music Group, with no reference to their vinyl releases!

[jazzman]

Alright, now you've done it with this thread -- I'm spending my day looking on line for vinyl. My main source always used to be elusivedisc.com, which is still around. Does anyone know if the Fantasy Records label in Berkeley has gone kaput? They used to market a lot of classic Jazz on vinyl (though the pressings were not high end). Can't seem to find a website for them -- they seem to have been subsumed into Concord Music Group, with no reference to their vinyl releases!

I think Fantasy's reasonably priced LPs are gone, but in recent years they've mostly been made from the digital masters they used for their not-so-great CDs. Some of their titles are available on great audiophile vinyl, though, including Creedence Clearwater Revival and many of the jazz titles owned by the companies they bought, such as Riverside and Prestige.

[Mama Bear]

I have between 600 and 700 LP's from the late 60's to early 70's..some of these used to be worth a LOT of money. I understand they are worthless now and I don't care. You can pry them away from my cold dead fingers..... :biggrin: I do need some new cartridges tho....

I have played my LP's on my massive '71 Pioneer tube amp... and then played the same CD on a CD player... you can keep your digital. :scared:

[zachster]

I have played my LP's on my massive '71 Pioneer tube amp... and then played the same CD on a CD player... you can keep your digital. :scared:

Atta Girl!

[180gVinyl]

I have between 600 and 700 LP's from the late 60's to early 70's..some of these used to be worth a LOT of money. I understand they are worthless now and I don't care. You can pry them away from my cold dead fingers..... :biggrin: I do need some new cartridges tho....

I have played my LP's on my massive '71 Pioneer tube amp... and then played the same CD on a CD player... you can keep your digital. :scared:

"This guy's in love, this guy's in love with you"


:001_wub:

[mrob]

Well, I know I will annoy several of you, but. . .

The difference between DEs and vinyl as a Back to the Future-type analogy is that. . .DEs work better than their replacements. Vinyl doesn't.

I hear people say that:

vinyl recordings are "warmer" than CDs--I guess so, if snaps, crackles and pops = warmth

digital recordings are too dry and lifeless--OK, if by dry you mean pristinely accurate and clean, without any audio ghost effects

To get vinyl to sound even close to average digital recordings you need to spend huge $$$ on equipment, which will likely need expensive maintenance and repair on a regular basis.

To get digital recordings or files to sound good all you need is a decent home stereo or an iPod In fact, I just hooked up an Apple Airport Express unit ($129) to a pair of powered speakers ($10 at our campus salvage store) in my living room, and can play all the sound files in my iTunes library with very acceptable results.

The days of big, expensive home stereo systems are probably numbered with this kind of technology available--why spend thousands of $$$ when you can get very nice sound for under $200?

[Mama Bear]

Ah, Mrob.... this is a good point. To understand my position you also have to take into consideration that I am probably the age of most of your mothers... The last equipment I bought was in 1990.... those were my Bose 501 speakers.. which at the time also doubled as end tables for my couch.. so I already have my thousands invested in other words.. and thousands.... and... you get the idea. :biggrin:

If I were to put myself in the place of a younger person, I would have digital... but probably would have never understood the difference. I also have some CD players... I like them for the small size and portability and I can't play an LP driving...

Now that I think of it, I usually listen to the news when I am driving.... wow did I get old! :w00t:

[scarface]

Since we're on the topic of vinyls I found this article about a gent who bought a vinyl for $0.75 and it was bid up to $155, 000 on eBay.

Thought you audiophiles might find this interesting:

http://www.mp3.com/news/stories/7563.html

[zachster]

To get vinyl to sound even close to average digital recordings you need to spend huge $$$ on equipment, which will likely need expensive maintenance and repair on a regular basis.

Well, I don't know about that -- I've had my Thorens turntable, with Sumiko/Premiere tonearm, since the early '90s, and I haven't had to replace so much as a belt. It cost a bit back then, but no more than any other component I purchased. I have since upgraded my cartridge once, but that really wasn't a huge expense. By contrast, I have gone through 3 CD players since that time. My latest is now on the blink, and I have to consider whether to repair it, or upgrade to an SACD -- which the professional critcs say sounds almost as good as vinyl! In short, my investment in a decent turntable settup was a very good one. My investments in CD players have been short lived, and digital afficionados are only now finally admitting that CDs do not offer "perfect" sound.

[Mama Bear]

Well, I don't know about that -- I've had my Thorens turntable, with Sumiko/Premiere tonearm, since the early '90s, and I haven't had to replace so much as a belt. It cost a bit back then, but no more than any other component I purchased. I have since upgraded my cartridge once, but that really wasn't a huge expense. By contrast, I have gone through 3 CD players since that time. My latest is now on the blink, and I have to consider whether to repair it, or upgrade to an SACD -- which the professional critcs say sounds almost as good as vinyl! In short, my investment in a decent turntable settup was a very good one. My investments in CD players have been short lived, and digital afficionados are only now finally admitting that CDs do not offer "perfect" sound.

I don't know.. I had to replace some tubes in my amp about 20 years ago... that was a real pain in the ass....horrible, terrible... :001_tt2:
CD players are disposable... :biggrin:

[jazzman]

Well, I know I will annoy several of you, but. . .

The difference between DEs and vinyl as a Back to the Future-type analogy is that. . .DEs work better than their replacements. Vinyl doesn't.

I hear people say that:

vinyl recordings are "warmer" than CDs--I guess so, if snaps, crackles and pops = warmth

digital recordings are too dry and lifeless--OK, if by dry you mean pristinely accurate and clean, without any audio ghost effects

To get vinyl to sound even close to average digital recordings you need to spend huge $$$ on equipment, which will likely need expensive maintenance and repair on a regular basis.

To get digital recordings or files to sound good all you need is a decent home stereo or an iPod In fact, I just hooked up an Apple Airport Express unit ($129) to a pair of powered speakers ($10 at our campus salvage store) in my living room, and can play all the sound files in my iTunes library with very acceptable results.

The days of big, expensive home stereo systems are probably numbered with this kind of technology available--why spend thousands of $$$ when you can get very nice sound for under $200?

For $200, I agree that you can't beat digital. But if you want the best sound, without snaps, crackles, and pops, and if you want to hear clean sound in your home that also sounds something like live music, vinyl is your best bet. Modern turntables that sell for under $500 (some are well under $500), with modern cartridges that cost less than $125, playing new vinyl that costs $25-30 per record, sound much better. And if you've never heard an expensive analogue setup, you won't believe your ears.

[180gVinyl]

Well, I know I will annoy several of you, but. . .

The difference between DEs and vinyl as a Back to the Future-type analogy is that. . .DEs work better than their replacements. Vinyl doesn't.

I hear people say that:

vinyl recordings are "warmer" than CDs--I guess so, if snaps, crackles and pops = warmth

digital recordings are too dry and lifeless--OK, if by dry you mean pristinely accurate and clean, without any audio ghost effects

To get vinyl to sound even close to average digital recordings you need to spend huge $$$ on equipment, which will likely need expensive maintenance and repair on a regular basis.

To get digital recordings or files to sound good all you need is a decent home stereo or an iPod In fact, I just hooked up an Apple Airport Express unit ($129) to a pair of powered speakers ($10 at our campus salvage store) in my living room, and can play all the sound files in my iTunes library with very acceptable results.

The days of big, expensive home stereo systems are probably numbered with this kind of technology available--why spend thousands of $$$ when you can get very nice sound for under $200?


As an inexpensive medium, digital recordings are acceptable.

To hear an accurate rendition of a recording then a decent vinyl pressing on a turntable is the way to go.

Warmth isn't snap, crackle or pop - that's Kellogg's Rice Krispies

The ambience of the recording is captured during vinyl playback

Digital recordings, particularly rock/pop are compressed to the hilt

Turntables from Rega & Project offer a reasonably priced introduction and will last for years

Analogue - The way it was meant to be heard

[ouch]

The days of big, expensive home stereo systems are probably numbered with this kind of technology available--why spend thousands of $$$ when you can get very nice sound for under $200?

Simple. Because "very nice sound" isn't nearly good enough.

On a related note, I hooked up my niece's iPod up to my preamp, and played it for her through my Magnepans. She was thunderstruck. When she heard her music played through a proper system, it was as if she had never heard it before. There's a lot of information buried in there, but you need the proper equipment to extract it.

Now she complains that she no longer enjoys her iPod as much.

[jduffy]

Way to go Ouch! Ruin a girl's sense of audiophilia like that. :eek: You should be forced to listen to Yo-Yo Ma on a boombox for that! :wink:

One of the hardest things also about getting good audio equipment is that one great piece of equipment can show you all the weak points of your system. Then the real buying begins! :eek:

[ouch]

Way to go Ouch! Ruin a girl's sense of audiophilia like that. :eek: You should be forced to listen to Yo-Yo Ma on a boombox for that! :wink:

Don't worry too much. I can assure you she'll be ruining a lot of things for a lot of guys in the near future.



One of the hardest things also about getting good audio equipment is that one great piece of equipment can show you all the weak points of your system. Then the real buying begins! :eek:


How true. Then, of course, you realize that there is always a weak link. It never ends.:cursing:

[zachster]

One of the hardest things also about getting good audio equipment is that one great piece of equipment can show you all the weak points of your system. Then the real buying begins! :eek:

Most definitely. This is why I actually fear buying a new CD player to replace my broken Marantz -- I will be forced to buy all sorts of other things to bring out the best in whatever replacement I get! So, knowing full well that it is outdated, I will probably just go ahead and repair my current player, simply because I can't afford to go on a buying binge right now :frown:

[ouch]

If your current player has a digital output, you may want to get a stand alone DAC.


I'm amazed that there are still people who claim to be able to hear differences between digital transports, or even digital cables. :confused:

[zachster]

If your current player has a digital output, you may want to get a stand alone DAC.

I had a DAC with my previous player, but found this one to sound just as good without one, using the analogue outputs. Though I do run it through a Musical Fidelity tube stage (X10d). Yeah, I never understood the transport thing, either -- I've tried hard to listen for differences on some of my friends' systems, but maybe my ear isn't as refined as theirs... :rolleyes: