new to honing straight razors

[JPO]

While sharpening, if the blade curves up at the toe and heel, do you leave those areas dull if they do not come in contact with the stone?
I am familiar with sharpening clip points on a knife, but with a straight razor, it would be very tough to use the same technique. The videos I have been watching do not touch on that, I have learned to keep the blade flat and even at all times. Thanks for an easy answer to this without getting into too much detail. much appreciated.

Do you have a photo of the razor?
My first razor was a 1/4 hollow 7/8. I had no experience honing razors, but I had allot of experience with knifes.
All I needed to do was to roll with the curvature, like you hone a knife. The spine acts like a angle guide. Quite simple in principle.
You just need to use much lighter pressure, and minimize burr formation and avoid flexing the blade.

It really isn't much more complicated then honing a knife, just a different technique.

I was shaving just fine long before I discovered all the madness you see on YouTube.
I think your time is best spent with your razor on the stone. If you are proficient at knife sharpening you will pick it up quite fast.
If you run into issues there are plenty of experienced people who can help here.

I would not bread knife the edge.
If you need to speed things up for reprofiling ,you can lift the spine to allow for more pressure without increasing your bevel width.
Then you do your final correction with the spine on the stone.
I would not do that if the blade had a smile. It is quite effective if you are correcting a frawn.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Bread-knifing is a technique for removing steel. If you need to remove steel, it does not matter which technique you use. Bread-knifing works well to remove small chips, as does High Angle honing or just regular honing with a bit of pressure and/or slurry. They all remove the same amount of steel from the edge, remember you do not remove a chip, you remove all the steel at the edge to the level of the bottom of the chip.

One is not better than another, it is personal preference and technique.

You need some downward pressure and torque to keep the bevel and spine on the stone. But if you over torque a thin hollow ground blade it is easy to hone on the back of the bevel and lift the edge off the stone.

Sharpie ink on the bevel is a quick, simple, effective way to monitor the effectiveness of your technique and see what is happening on the bevel.

Honing using only straight strokes will eventually cause a slight frown, using an X stroke for finishing will hone to a slight smile and negate a frown.

For an X lap, you do not need to hone from corner to corner, if you do you will find that the heel drops off the stone within the first inch of travel and is not properly honed, (does not get enough time on the stone). The toe half of the razor is on the stone 100% of the time, the heel half much less than 50%, the actual heel less than 10%.

Watch some honing videos and see how quickly the heel falls off the stone.

Keep the heel on the stone at least 1/3rd of travel then slightly curve the honing arc, so that the razor toe ends about mid stone.

You can get the same effect with straight strokes by slightly curving half laps, so the toe starts near the stone edge and ends near the middle of the stone.

It is the pressure shift that makes the difference and keeps most of the razor on the stone.

 

[papi]

The logic is that the bevel and apex must be on the stone to sharpen. So, logically, the person honing has to adjust the position of the blade to make that happen. There is no other way. The 'roll' comes naturally. Takes longer to hone because you don't have the full blade on the stone all the time so expect longer sessions.

One thing though - if, when you do a clip, you use the style where the blade exits off the stone - I wouldn't bring that exact technique into the razor honing aspect of things. Better to keep the blade on the stone, otherwise you might create more issues than you started with.

Ok, thanks. I am starting with old junk razors, so I will eventually learn all of this by trial and error. It took me over 5 hours to get one shave so far and it was not a good shave. I have a better inexpensive vintage razor coming in the mail; it is all there metal-wise so my learning curve will increase.
I have to say that this straight razor honing is going to improve my sharpening skills with knives 10 times.
Thanks for the information.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yup, all normal.

Yes, your knife sharpening skills will improve dramatically, most probably because you will look at the edge/bevels completely differently than you have, both physically and mentally.

Then add to that the comfort aspect of honing a razor, Sharp is Easy, Sharp way past knife sharp and comfortable is the trick.

It’s not rocket science, but it’s also not knife sharpening.

 

[Gamma]

Ok, thanks......

I have to say that this straight razor honing is going to improve my sharpening skills with knives 10 times.
Thanks for the information.

You're welcome.

 

[Kyle89]

Marking the bevel both sides with a Sharpie (marker) pen will let you know what part of the bevel is coming into contact with the honing surface. With that knowledge, you can adjust your honing technique to ensure that the full length of the bevel is being properly honed. This adjustment involves slightly raising (for the toe) and lowering (for the heel) the scales to get proper contact.

The amount of adjustment will vary with each SR based on the amount of smile in the edge profile.

In my earlier honing years, I would first breadknife the smile out of an edge. This made it easier for me to hone. As my honing technique developed, I found less of a need to breadknife the smile out. Now even an excessive smile (for me, greater that 3mm or 4mm) doesn't present any difficulty for me. As an example

View attachment 1683401​

That being said, I still prefer no smile in a SR with a pronounced Spanish point. I like their toe to be pointy and sharp. Having no smile in a Spanish point SR, assists in keeping its toe to my liking.

From this,

View attachment 1683400
​

to this,

View attachment 1683399
​

Not to hijack the thread, but what's the story on the YmPo? Lovely looking razor.

 

[rbscebu]

Not to hijack the thread, but what's the story on the YmPo? Lovely looking razor.

That's Russian (pronounced "Utro") for "morning", although Google translates it as "died".

 

[papi]

Do you have a photo of the razor?
My first razor was a 1/4 hollow 7/8. I had no experience honing razors, but I had allot of experience with knifes.
All I needed to do was to roll with the curvature, like you hone a knife. The spine acts like a angle guide. Quite simple in principle.
You just need to use much lighter pressure, and minimize burr formation and avoid flexing the blade.

It really isn't much more complicated then honing a knife, just a different technique.

I was shaving just fine long before I discovered all the madness you see on YouTube.
I think your time is best spent with your razor on the stone. If you are proficient at knife sharpening you will pick it up quite fast.
If you run into issues there are plenty of experienced people who can help here.

I would not bread knife the edge.
If you need to speed things up for reprofiling ,you can lift the spine to allow for more pressure without increasing your bevel width.
Then you do your final correction with the spine on the stone.
I would not do that if the blade had a smile. It is quite effective if you are correcting a frawn.

The razor is so bad it's not worth a picture. You would think I was wasting my time. The spine was ground down so badly by someone that there is not much hollow ground left. The blade width is less than 1/2 inch. Therefore the bevel ends up being 1/8 inch wide, because of the low angle between the spine and edge. The curve up at the toe was so small I ended up making it pretty much straight. I did get a complete shave out of it today. I learned some techniques in the last few days.
I purchased a decent German razor for 14 dollars from eBay and when it comes in I will know a lot more than I did 3 days ago and I will hit it with different grits of emery cloth and give it a whirl on the stones.
I appreciate how all of you folks are willing to help out.
Thanks.

 

[Slash McCoy]

While sharpening, if the blade curves up at the toe and heel, do you leave those areas dull if they do not come in contact with the stone?
I am familiar with sharpening clip points on a knife, but with a straight razor, it would be very tough to use the same technique. The videos I have been watching do not touch on that, I have learned to keep the blade flat and even at all times. Thanks for an easy answer to this without getting into too much detail. much appreciated.

Use the rolling X stroke. But, don't get suckered in to exaggerating the roll just to get that last micro-inch of toe or heel, though. The middle will catch up to the ends eventually. A slight rolling x stroke usually results in the long run of a rather nice edge. I don't mind an absolutely straight edge, myself. Most honers like a slight smile in the edge. When honing in hand, simply allow the hone to roll in your hand rather than deliberately rolling the razor, and you are usually in the ball park. Use your sharpie to tell you where the razor is hitting the hone.

That last tiny bit of edge doesn't matter. Struggling desperately to get it, perpetuates the issue rather than solving it. Just my view. Your razor. Do it like you feel it.