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Americans - What do you make of this? Active army brigade operating on American soil

What do Americans think of this? Isn't this completely illegal (violation of your Posse Comitatus Act)

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1

3rd Infantry’s 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping ‘people at home’ may become a permanent part of the active Army
By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Sep 8, 2008 6:15:06 EDT

The 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team has spent 35 of the last 60 months in Iraq patrolling in full battle rattle, helping restore essential services and escorting supply convoys.

Now they’re training for the same mission — with a twist — at home.

Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the 1st BCT will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

It is not the first time an active-duty unit has been tapped to help at home. In August 2005, for example, when Hurricane Katrina unleashed hell in Mississippi and Louisiana, several active-duty units were pulled from various posts and mobilized to those areas.

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

After 1st BCT finishes its dwell-time mission, expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one.

“Right now, the response force requirement will be an enduring mission. How the [Defense Department] chooses to source that and whether or not they continue to assign them to NorthCom, that could change in the future,” said Army Col. Louis Vogler, chief of NorthCom future operations. “Now, the plan is to assign a force every year.”

The command is at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo., but the soldiers with 1st BCT, who returned in April after 15 months in Iraq, will operate out of their home post at Fort Stewart, Ga., where they’ll be able to go to school, spend time with their families and train for their new homeland mission as well as the counterinsurgency mission in the war zones.

Stop-loss will not be in effect, so soldiers will be able to leave the Army or move to new assignments during the mission, and the operational tempo will be variable.

Don’t look for any extra time off, though. The at-home mission does not take the place of scheduled combat-zone deployments and will take place during the so-called dwell time a unit gets to reset and regenerate after a deployment.

The 1st of the 3rd is still scheduled to deploy to either Iraq or Afghanistan in early 2010, which means the soldiers will have been home a minimum of 20 months by the time they ship out.

In the meantime, they’ll learn new skills, use some of the ones they acquired in the war zone and more than likely will not be shot at while doing any of it.

They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.

The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

“It’s a new modular package of nonlethal capabilities that they’re fielding. They’ve been using pieces of it in Iraq, but this is the first time that these modules were consolidated and this package fielded, and because of this mission we’re undertaking we were the first to get it.”

The package includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and, beanbag bullets.

“I was the first guy in the brigade to get Tasered,” said Cloutier, describing the experience as “your worst muscle cramp ever — times 10 throughout your whole body.

“I’m not a small guy, I weigh 230 pounds ... it put me on my knees in seconds.”

The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF (pronounced “sea-smurf”).

“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home ... and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.”

While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply.

“If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq.

Some brigade elements will be on call around the clock, during which time they’ll do their regular marksmanship, gunnery and other deployment training. That’s because the unit will continue to train and reset for the next deployment, even as it serves in its CCMRF mission.

Should personnel be needed at an earthquake in California, for example, all or part of the brigade could be scrambled there, depending on the extent of the need and the specialties involved.
Other branches included

The active Army’s new dwell-time mission is part of a NorthCom and DOD response package.

Active-duty soldiers will be part of a force that includes elements from other military branches and dedicated National Guard Weapons of Mass Destruction-Civil Support Teams.

A final mission rehearsal exercise is scheduled for mid-September at Fort Stewart and will be run by Joint Task Force Civil Support, a unit based out of Fort Monroe, Va., that will coordinate and evaluate the interservice event.

In addition to 1st BCT, other Army units will take part in the two-week training exercise, including elements of the 1st Medical Brigade out of Fort Hood, Texas, and the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade from Fort Bragg, N.C.

There also will be Air Force engineer and medical units, the Marine Corps Chemical, Biological Initial Reaction Force, a Navy weather team and members of the Defense Logistics Agency and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency.

One of the things Vogler said they’ll be looking at is communications capabilities between the services.

“It is a concern, and we’re trying to check that and one of the ways we do that is by having these sorts of exercises. Leading up to this, we are going to rehearse and set up some of the communications systems to make sure we have interoperability,” he said.

“I don’t know what America’s overall plan is — I just know that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that are standing by to come and help if they’re called,” Cloutier said. “It makes me feel good as an American to know that my country has dedicated a force to come in and help the people at home.”
 
This sort of role was/is traditionally left for the national guard, under joint state and federal command. Unfortunately the guard (along with the rest of the military) is stretched awfully thin right now. I personally would like to see a change in military strategy that would allow the national guard "citizen soldiers" to come back and resume that role, and keep regular military units ready to encounter foreign threats.

In terms of the legality, I understand from the article that they will be stationed at an Army base in Georgia. That is where they would be anyway when they aren't abroad, so there isn't any difference. Certain deployments they may make at some point may get into questionable legal territory, but that has not yet occurred and it is not reasonable (IMHO) to just assume that it will.
 
"What do Americans think of this? Isn't this completely illegal (violation of your Posse Comitatus Act)"

It is my understanding that the Posse Comitatus Act prevents active duty military personnel from being "deputized" by civilian authority. The local sheriff can't take control of a military unit by using local "posse laws".

The act is not to prevent the military from acting in a civilian law enforcement roll in the case of martial law being declared. Indeed this is often the case when a natural disaster strikes. Normally the state national guard units handle the situation but there is always the possibility that the federal government may do so. This appears to be what this unit is training for. I went through training for domestic civilian riot control when I was in the army in the early 70's so this is not new.

Lou
 
"What do Americans think of this? Isn't this completely illegal (violation of your Posse Comitatus Act)"

It is my understanding that the Posse Comitatus Act prevents active duty military personnel from being "deputized" by civilian authority. The local sheriff can't take control of a military unit by using local "posse laws".

The act is not to prevent the military from acting in a civilian law enforcement roll in the case of martial law being declared. Indeed this is often the case when a natural disaster strikes. Normally the state national guard units handle the situation but there is always the possibility that the federal government may do so. This appears to be what this unit is training for. I went through training for domestic civilian riot control when I was in the army in the early 70's so this is not new.

Lou

If you want a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, think Waco. Helping the civilian population during or after a disaster is just part of the job. Local military commanders can and will offer assistance to local authorities as the situation arises in their area.
 
The President was granted wide powers of troop deployment in 'emergency' situations in 2006 and 2007 under changes to the 1807 Insurrection Act (which works hand in hand by specific reference in the Posse Comitatus Act). Fortunately these were repealed early this year and the Act was restored to its original language (thanks go to Pat Leahy, Dem and Kit Bond, Rep).

Every president for the last 100 years or so (except Coolidge and Harding) sought and were granted expansive powers not defined in the Constitution, regardless of the party in control of Congress. The PCA, specifically, has been a prime target over the years, most recently to bolster the 'wars' on drugs and terror. The Executive has always enjoyed the support of majority of his party in these efforts.

Anyone remember how much Limbaugh made of the PCA when Clinton was president? - Has he talked about it at all since Bush took over?
 
Given that the deployment of that brigade will cover the same duties that the National Guard covers, it is a good idea. It takes to gather an National Guard unit together before moving it to where it is needed. The brigade will be ready to go on a moment's notice and probably better trained for the mission at hand than a Guard unit would be.
 
Given that the deployment of that brigade will cover the same duties that the National Guard covers, it is a good idea. It takes to gather an National Guard unit together before moving it to where it is needed. The brigade will be ready to go on a moment's notice and probably better trained for the mission at hand than a Guard unit would be.

+1

I don't see why anyone would take an issue against this.
 
maybe they'll send the canucks in next.

seriously, so what. so northcom has designated an active duty station with real billets to fill so a lot of guys who deserve a well earned break from tours overseas can be "stationed" in one place at home. makes sense to me and the troops.

ask the people of new orleans if it makes sense.

I imagine those are some pretty sweet orders to rcv.
 
Whether or not it's a good idea is irrelevant. I don't know if it is legal or not but that is the issue. What if your government decides to do something else that is illegal but this time you don't happen to think it's a good idea.
 
For me, it isn't this particular incident that has me worried.

It is the eventual comfort and casual attitude with which the population will look upon the 2nd, the 3rd, and the 4th time it happens.

Citing that reason alone, I believe we ought to be wary and it ought to be made clear (by us) that we don't want to start getting used to this.
 
In regards to training today's Army guard is a lot different than the guard of the past, not knocking Guardsmen who got the job done back then by any means, but I have recieved the same training that an Active duty soldier in any of the 3 mos's I hold has had in addition I have had a bunch of training as part of deploying. In addition to being a soldier though, I am an active member of the community volunteering as a firefighter, and earning my bread and butter as a nurse. Not only does a Guardsman bring all this to the table but we are your neighbors, family, and co-workers and will be part of your community before, during, and after any emergency that requires the Guard to be called up.GO GUARD!
 
JTF Bravo (if my memory is correct) did a long period of time assist local law enforcement agencies along the US/Mexico border with drug interdiction. They were not used in a law enforcement capacity but did much surveillence on targets for the LEOs. This was a legal use of military personel in support of civilian authority. From the article above I don't see a clear violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.
 
You can call me niave if you like, I for one do not fear our military. They are sworn to uphold the laws and Constitution, and by all indications they take it a lot more seriously than our elected officials.
 
my 2 cents... it is the Guards job. Why have full time military doing the job of part timers?

Why have part timers doing the job of full time soldiers?
Keep the Guard home where they belong.

Let someone else play babysitter to the world, can't we focus on our own back yard before digging in others?

Rant over, ty for your patience.
 
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